Do to Aeonics what you did to Emps

[Shiyo]

Add another step, make it cost 200m+.

No reason for ZERO GIL ultimate weapons to exist, when other weapons are upwards of 200m(mythics/emps) and relics are still ~100m.

The strongest ultimate weapons(overall, also ignoring nirvana becuase lol smn) shouldn't be have ZERO gil cost when the other ultimate weapons have a very, very, very high gil cost.

[Isola]

Just no. Gil isn't a barrier to anything.

There absolutely should be more to aeonics. You should have to prove you're capable of using them. But that's never going to happen so just forget about it.

[Justuas]

The Escha NM pop items cost gil tho.

[Vold]

Eh, they still cost alot of your time. Everything you do in a MMORPG has a price tag called 'your time' Whether you spend it farming money or farming content, it's all the same. The price tags in gil is just a measurement of what one's time is worth. Maybe aeonics are all that but no one respects those things because they are so easy to get. RMEs are a testament to your dedication. It's really too bad SE sacrificed ultimate weapons and their damage output to allow normie weapons to compete because they could no longer create content to challenge everyone's capabilities after so many years and so many RMEs getting into the hands of players so does it really matter if aeonics cost a billion gil or nothing? Besides to the dummy who shouts for ultimate weapon only alliances for content? They are hardly worth having these days. SE made sure of that. Eh I guess they matter but come on, some normie drop weapons compete with RMEs. It's just sad.

[Stompa]

I am more proud of my Magian Weapons than I am of my RME Weapons.

I built around 25 Magians, including the Multi-hit and WSdmg and TPbonus weapons and of course the elemental weapons.

I spent years spamming thousands of weaponskills, and waiting for weather to arrive.

It was way more of an effort than just going to the AH and buying some stuff for a Relic or a final stages Empy.

I loved Empys when I had to go in Aby and build pop-sets and strike weaponskill procs. That felt like I was an adventurer, earning my weapon.

But when I look at my Moghouse, the things I feel most fond of, and proud of, are still my Magian Weapons, because they were 100% effort and I couldn't leech wins or buy progress.

I feel particularly proud of them because I was building them in the pre-ilvl era, with just level 90~ equipment. This meant that I had to work slowly, keep my HP up and defend myself, and have back-up strategies for catastrophic situations.

Ironically, those weapons are the ones that the game threw away, with no upgrades beyond level 99. I think the demise of Magians represented the sudden change in the game, from "sustained personal adventuring effort" to "let's go shopping."

Sometimes I pretend that ilvl never happened, and that is when I still use my Magians Weapons, and my level 90~99 gear, when I want to go and have some adventures and fun.

Also my mules are locked on level 75 and they still use things like Ridill and the classic level 70~75 armours.

I don't own any Aeonics, and I do not wish to. I'd rather just use my old stuff, and pretend I'm living in the 2004~2010 era, lol.

[Dzspdref]

I remember having all 8 Elemental Magic bonus for element staves for my BLM completed (yes even 2 of the Light based one for both Cure+% AND MAB).
Then I STILL have my Oxyuranis for Pet -11% damage on PUP for macro piece. Plus about 12 others completed for BLU, NIN x2, THF, WAR, BRD, WHM, etc...
They took time.
They took patience.
They showed you knew HOW to play and use your job.
They showed a lot of work and dedication.
They became instantly obsolete with introduction of ilvl weapons, even ilvl 103+, and they became (/toss)ed.
So while I spent all my time working on those, other people did other content I am now way behind on.
Makes you wonder why SE even made Magian trials if they were to be obsolete items that would take months or years to make after just a few weeks of viable usage.
:/

[Isola]

It really wouldn't be much effort to just slap on new trials.

.... if they don't do it their way.

See their problem is, everything has to have the "square step". Meaning additional waste. For no real reason.

Just add ONE trial (not even a hard one, who cares) to 119 the items. DONT do 60 trials for 100 101 105 107 109 113 115 117 118 119

This is why you'll never see them add more trials, they don't know how to just do it. They HAVE to make it over complicated. and they do not have the bodies to pull that off.

[Shiyo]

My friend just did a full aeonic clear in 4 hours. In the time he did that, I could've completed ONE emp NM trial(the ones before abyssea), MAYBE two if i was incredibly lucky. That is hilariously out of wack.

Oh, to top it off, aeonics are generally better, too. Great design.

Buff Mythic/emps, nerf aeonics to the ground

[Isola]

Buff Mythic/emps

They're talking about it now, in the near future.

[Shiyo]

ONLY those? or aeonics too? Aeonics need to be left alone and mythic/emps masively buffed(with a grind added to them)

[Isola]

You never know what square has in mind.

(melee) mythics need a gigantic boost. Relics all need a little boost. Empys are pretty decent but you have to boost them up to keep inline with +ing M/R... aeonics don't need it, but there will be endless whining if you dont...

MYTHICAL weapons should be the best... and zero of them are (melee). Ryunohinge went from the best weapon in the game to dead last with the 119-III change... that's just... insulting.

*That's not 100% true, there are still worse weapons, lolnagi

[Shiyo]

Yeah, mythics and emps are by far the most effort and should be the strongest two weapons. I'm not sure which is more effort, as I've NEVER made a mythic, but whichever is should be slightly stronger. Aeonics and relics should be the weakest as they can both be done in a day, however, in the time you make 1 relic, you could've made 18 people aeonics.

Aeonics should be by far the weakest.

[Dzspdref]

Realize the game was "originally" designed to MAKE you spend a lot of time in the game.
(Remember how quests and storylines had "Wait until next JP midnight to progress"?)
More time spent in game meant more money paid for your subscription.
More money to pay-to-play meant they were in business longer.
THAT'S main reason why things took so long to complete usually; it kept the game running and paid for.

[Shiyo]

Yeah, and aeonics go completely against that. So does AC burning(which is why aeonics are a joke).

People are getting 2100 summoner/nirvana, AC burning their aeonics then quitting the game within 2-3 months.

Aeonics need to be massively nerfed, so that people have a reason to do lengthy grindy content for better rewards(emps/mythics).

[Kishr]

Another shiyo nerf thread.....

[Halley]

Yeah, and aeonics go completely against that. So does AC burning(which is why aeonics are a joke).

People are getting 2100 summoner/nirvana, AC burning their aeonics then quitting the game within 2-3 months.

Aeonics need to be massively nerfed, so that people have a reason to do lengthy grindy content for better rewards(emps/mythics).

I still say take away all Aeonics built with SMNs. That would be the single funniest thing ever.

[Nyarlko]

Aeonics are the only ones out of the "Ultimate Weapons" that can not be soloed. I'm guessing the devs decided that being forced to play with others was enough of an offset to bypass the gil sink stage.

Out of morbid curiosity, I'm wondering how long it will take you to spaz out about the incoming crafted Divergence weapons, which are supposed to be on par with current RMEA weapons. :D

[BurnNotice]

Add another step, make it cost 200m+.

No reason for ZERO GIL ultimate weapons to exist, when other weapons are upwards of 200m(mythics/emps) and relics are still ~100m.

The strongest ultimate weapons(overall, also ignoring nirvana becuase lol smn) shouldn't be have ZERO gil cost when the other ultimate weapons have a very, very, very high gil cost.

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you my friend. I don't see the need to add another hurdle, like gil cost, to obtain Aeonics. Also keep in mind a few things:

1) It is difficult enough to defeat Geas Fete NMs.

2) Most folks grind hard on mythics and empys without dependencies on gil (like myself, which is why I don't have many)

3) It's easier for Devs to hold campaigns with increase drop rates for folks to obtain beads, cinders/dross, HMPs, alexs, HP Bayld, ect. at a much faster rate, thus leading to less gil dependency.

4) Most folks are focusing on getting better gear first and leaving Aeonic/Mythics/Empys/Relics last since there are some incredible weapons out there to use in the meantime.

5) Majority of the people I know love this method because it gives LS things do. I haven't seen this many Event LS since the days of lvl 75 of camping time-spawn HNMs. (Dragon's Aery anyone?)

Don't get me wrong, I see your point, but I can't swallow that idea.

[Halley]

Aeonics are the best method of weapon to obtain. It's group effort vs just gil.

Problem is it's not being done as intended. Aeonics are every bit of what empyreans should've been. 50 Glavoid shells? No. Hell no. Team up and kill 20 Glavoids, awesome.

Then you start conduit burning everything and it lost all meaning.

[Shiyo]

1) It is difficult enough to defeat Geas Fete NMs.

No it's not. Takes 4-5 hours to AC burn an entire aeonic.

[Kishr]

5hr?lol you wish, coming from someone without a aeonic.
Take at least 8-10hr just to farm beads straight.
You can't just pug through it either.
Pops aren't free.
A random new smn'r can't burn hard mobs.
Resetting 1hr for hard mobs takes time.
List goes on. Get your facts and crying correct.

[Kishr]

Also you'r missing one point of aeonic's completely.
REM weapons can be done by a player without even any ilv gear. On the other hand aeonics's require skill, team work, and close to the best gear currently.
Think you forgot to add that in your equation of 5hr.
Add maybe a few months or a year of farming gear for a job that is then worthy to be part of a group that's capable of defeating all the mobs.

[Stuzey]

I'm not sure why this is a thing? Aeonics are two and a half years old now... People have them, whether you agree with the strategy or not, smn burning is a valid way of killing.

I don't see any benefit with punishing those who haven't completed Aeonics yet, the time for crying out for changes was two years ago.

Focus ahead to the new content, Dynamis weapons and the empyrean upgrades

[Zuidar]

I'm not sure why this is a thing? Aeonics are two and a half years old now... People have them, whether you agree with the strategy or not, smn burning is a valid way of killing.

I don't see any benefit with punishing those who haven't completed Aeonics yet, the time for crying out for changes was two years ago.

Focus ahead to the new content, Dynamis weapons and the empyrean upgrades

Agreed. We're WAY beyond the point from the conclusion of Rhapsodies of Vana'diel story to worry or talk about nerfing jobs as it is. I rather not want to see something that gets botched / butchered way more than how much at very little to nothing they compensate to "fix" or "bandaid" (Monk's flawed boost for example, and 30 seconds of focus and dodge?)

Right now every month had been just small patch updates and changes to ambuscade, every few months or so with planned new content updates or other stuff. If that's all that had been going on for almost 2-3 years, I rather not see them wait until the last minute to drastically change something that would have big negative impact.

Also take note how little to no communication we had with the dev team from our side. (NOT counting announcements for campaigns, contests, version updates) but at the point from mid 2017 and 2018 and beyond , I really have such doubts about it that I don't want to bother with.

[Nyarlko]

Give it a month or two. Divergence weapons will make any debate over the easiness of obtaining an Aeonic weapon pure silliness and essentially raging over a moot point. Will it really matter if specific group comps can complete an Aeonic faster than others once we can literally buy something equivalent from a crafter?

[Halley]

It will always matter. Nothing is going to beat 10stp and 500tp bonus.

*For specific jobs

The best shouldn't be the easiest/fastest/cheapest

[Shiyo]

Give it a month or two. Divergence weapons will make any debate over the easiness of obtaining an Aeonic weapon pure silliness and essentially raging over a moot point. Will it really matter if specific group comps can complete an Aeonic faster than others once we can literally buy something equivalent from a crafter?

Your translations are consistently wrong, so please stop going around claiming you know the future of this game.

Anyways, there's absolutely zero reason the EASIEST, essentially free and quickest RMEA should give level4 skillchains while the other don't. This is a huge oversight and I hope they plan on adding level 4 SC's to every RMEA. It's really unfair that things that take more work and dedication don't even get level4 skillchains.

[Nyarlko]

It's from FP39: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/54012-Freshly-Picked-Vana-diel-39-Digest


We are considering adding weapons to Dynamis-Divergence that are as powerful as the strongest weapons currently available, as well as further upgrading Relic/Mythic/Empyrean weapons.

They talked about it considerably more in the broadcast than this one line from the English summary of course. ^^ I actually erred on the side of caution in my initial translation, but Divergence weapons are coming, and they are intended to be stronger than any sellable/purchasable weapon we've ever seen. Fujito repeatedly called them "expensive" though, and given that they have been stated to require a completed Escutcheon in order to make them, I doubt they are going to be amazingly common for quite some time to come.

Still want to argue that being able to buy a RMEA equivalent from the AH (or craft one yourself) is not going to make this complaint seem silly by comparison?

[Afania]

I love how 2~ years ago people complained about aeonic being horrible and "not worth the effort" because it sucks and too hard to get. And somehow now it's da best REMA.

Besides VERY few jobs aeonic isn't by all end all best weapon for those jobs, most of the time they are the best weapon for specific WS or multi stepping. WAR would use chango for upheaval but not resolution, DRK wouldn't use aeonic for torcleaver, COR doesn't use aeonic for savage blade, BLU doesn't use aeonic for CDC, RUN doesn't use aeonic for tanking etc.

If someone wants to be good at a job, they need all relevant REMA, not just one. From that perspective aeonic doesn't rule above REM, it's on the same tier. Sometimes you want to use A, sometimes you want to use M, sometimes E etc.

As far as the price goes, aeonic market price is about 100m to 150m afaik. That's about the same as other ultimate weapons, it is not cheaper.

For those who could get aeonic for free, there are hidden price associate with it, they usually gear another job at top end level to get into groups, or make connections for it. You don't just start a brand new character in ilv 117 gears and make aeonic in 5 days like another guy in endgame LS with nirvana/idris etc. The time and gil they spent on another job to get into groups often already surpassed the price to build a REM. Try to get into a group that could finish aeonics in 4hr without having a nirvana/idris first, I promise you it will be very very difficult. And those gears already cost gil.

Although it is possible to get aeonic without nirvana/idris by playing a different job like COR or RUN, you'd need even more connection for that.

And how much time it would cost to build such connection? Many, many hours.

Without Nirvana/Idris, I got one of my aeonic free from a group that I don't belong because I know someone that was in it. We played together for countless hours before that even happens. And THAT was part of the time investment. If I haven't invest time on my connection I wouldn't get that.

From this perspective, aeonic isn't "faster/easier/cheaper" than relic/mythic/empy. It's just opinions from people who would gear to do content anyways, so it feels that way since hidden costs are ignored.

[Shiyo]

Mythics are 200m, 1 person gets it. Takes weeks. All of them are garbage for melee jobs.
Emps are 200m, 1 person gets it. Takes weeks. Good weapons.
Relics are ~120m 1 person gets it. Can be gotten in a day,nearly all of them are garbage for melee jobs(kikoku and gugnir exceptions)
Aeonics are free, take 1 day, up to 18 people get it from 1 completion. 100-150m to buy from a group, but still up to 18 people get it at once. Are generally the best weapons.

Not sure why you brought up greatsword when a 3m item is better than RMEA greatswords outside lionheart(which drk and war would use if they were on and never touch another greatsword again), and aettir is ~3m and better in epeo in nearly every situation except master trials and vinipata but that just further proves my point - easier cheaper quicker(auction house for DD gsword, JSE weapon for tanking) items shouldn't be stronger than things that take WEEKS and hundreds of millions to make.

Buff RME's, nerf aeonics to the ground.

[Afania]

Let's see......

Not garbage mythics for melee jobs(RDM COR included, pet/mage/ranged job doesn't count):
Murgleis: Best enfeebling weapon
Vajra: For SA/TA only fight like Ernys
Liberator: Best macc weapon and prebuff with absorb.
Tizona: For situations that needs MP.
Death Penalty: Best leaden salute gun
Epeolatry: Best tanking/hybrid tanking weapon.
Terpsichore: To my knowledge, Best TP spam weapon.

Not so useful melee mythics:
Conqueror, Glanzfaust, Koga, Nagi, Ryuno

7 melee mythics are useful, 5 melee mythics aren't so useful.

Relic: Let's see again, besides mage/ranged/Kikoku/gungnir

Not so garbage:
Spharai: I believe this is still the best weapon for counter tanking, correct me if I'm wrong.
Excalibur: Fusion WS for RDM, or nice aftermath.
Ragnarok: Max melee acc build for GS
Apocalypse: Best choice for tanking and "oh my WHM just d/c" kind of oh shit moments. Honestly out of all REMA I think this weapon is the most job changing one for DRK.
Amano: Max acc build

so again, 7 melee relic aren't garbage. The only not so useful relic in the list would be Mandau and (I'm not a fan of) Bravura.

Compare with aeonic, aeonic really doesn't get devastating advantage. It's like mythic or relic, you use it when situations needs it, but it's not meant to be used full time for every situations.

I brought up GS because the ideal choice for DRK DPS vomit is still Calad, which is empyrean not aeonic. The "3m" item isn't viable for DRK because of MP drain, once MP is all gone Calad would pull far ahead. Calad is just that, one beast of GS. So "aeonic is best" doesn't apply here.

Also wtf with Aettir is better than epeo? Epeo is one of the most job changing weapon on RUN or even entire game. It's THE best weapon for hybrid tanking, and it creates much more room for error for tanks. There are always time that WHM d/c, R0, reacts slow, or leader just use pt setup without WHM. The flexibility of epeo that allows RUN to stay alive in all of above situations is irreplaceable. Nevermind the fact that epeo maintains high level of output in 40%+ DT hybrid tanking set, which can be pushed to 75% PDT- in a sec without suffering from TP lose, while lionheart can't do it as smoothly, not even close.

Having the ability to aoe liement saves lives sometimes, and highest enmity in weapon slot is icing on the cake.

Aettir has like what?....meva and more meva. Nobody cares about meva on RUN. We already resist everything without aettir. It can't DD as well as epeo, it can't survive as well as epeo. It's just a functional weapon that get things done, that's it.

It makes absolutely zero sense that the usefulness of REM weapons are downplayed to this level.....aeonics are good. But they are not by all end all best of the very best weapon.

[Halley]

Let's see......

Not garbage mythics for melee jobs
Murgleis: Best enfeebling weapon Not meleeing
Vajra: For SA/TA only fight like Ernys Not engaging meleeing (using as utility, not melee)
Liberator: Best macc weapon and prebuff with absorb. macc not meleeing
Tizona: For situations that needs MP. Nothing where thats accurate
Death Penalty: Best leaden salute gun Obviously NOT MELEE
Epeolatry: Best tanking/hybrid tanking weapon. Not a mythic
Terpsichore: To my knowledge, Best TP spam weapon. This is only correct because PK is uniquely quite good.

Not so useful melee mythics:
All but DNC

1 melee mythics are useful,



Relic: Let's see again, besides mage/ranged/Kikoku/gungnir

Not so garbage:
Spharai: I believe this is still the best weapon for counter tanking, correct me if I'm wrong. Jolts are better, for counter.
Excalibur: Fusion WS for RDM, or nice aftermath.Just no
Ragnarok: Max melee acc build for GS
Apocalypse: Best choice for tanking and "oh my WHM just d/c" kind of oh shit moments. Honestly out of all REMA I think this weapon is the most job changing one for DRK.lolScythe
Amano: Max acc build


Corrected, text to short.

[DarkValefor]

I totally agree with Afania, and honestly, the fact that people don't know how to use their weapons doesn't make them useless.

Trishula an Chango seem to win, ninja aeonic seems to win too but other than that I usually see more DPS from empys or relics.

I play DNC as main job and Terpsichore is by far the best DD and utility dagger making Aeneas worthless unless you are allowed to 4-step skillchain which hardly ever happens.

I'm not saying aeonics are not good but I don't agree every aeonic is best for that job

[Afania]

Corrected, text to short.

Corrected or incorrect? If you wanna argue points about weapons, maybe you'd need more than "text to short"


Murgleis/Vajra: So they are used, thus not garbage.
Liberator: Prebuff with boosted absorb stat is part of melee. A calad DRK with liberator access would still do more dmg than calad drk without. In that case it's not garbage.
Tizona: You didn't provide any context, nor discuss the DPS of Tizona/raetic +1 combo with math. Not convinced.
Death Penalty: Melee with DP and spam leaden salute is a legit and useful playstyle, obviously it's a weapon for a job that MELEES.
Epeo: Ergons are grouped together with mythic.

Relic:
Excalibur: Just no for what? Multi stepping SC with inundation is a big part of RDM DD playstyle, having fusion WS opens options.
Apoc: Lolscythe that comes with Catastrophe, a WS that often saves people's life in oh shit moments? Last time I checked, dead DD does no DPS.

It's very easy to dismiss a weapon entirely with one single sentence like "lolscythe" or "just no" without even saying why, isn't it. It's almost like "it suck because I said so".

But that totally isn't legit in a buff/nerf weapons discussion on official forums. And it's ridiculous with amount of people bashing weapons on forums just because they excel at one thing but not everything. Then people got super focused on what they can't do instead of what they're best at.

This is FFXI, gears aren't meant to be used for EVERY situation. That's my point.

[Nyarlko]

You guys forgot Aymur. :x AM affects both master/pet, Primal Rend can be used to open Darkness w/ two pets closing it, (chapuli/Tegmina Buffet, and tulfaire/Pentapeck) and I've heard that it will most likely never leave my main-hand slot once mine is completed. Given the official stance on BST being intended to be a melee, it should be included in the argument.

[Shiyo]

Kikoku, Apoc, and gugnir are the only good melee relics. Most people won't find them useful because always in 18 man alliances so don't value defense down procs, +10% attk AM or skillchain properties or value survivability on a job with negative survivability and almost non-existent mevasion.

Aeonics are generally BIS for every single situation, while other RME's are niche to borderline useless.

[Afania]

Use one weapon for every single situation is antithesis of playing FFXI.

[Halley]

Use one weapon for every single situation is antithesis of playing FFXI.

That's literally why Aeonics shouldn't be as good as they are. Invalidating your own argument.

Aeonics ARE the best in every single situation that matters. Stating otherwise is just lying. *melee

[Afania]

That's literally why Aeonics shouldn't be as good as they are. Invalidating your own argument.

Aeonics ARE the best in every single situation that matters. Stating otherwise is just lying. *melee

"Matters" or not is subjective. I'm not even sure if "subjective" is accurate description now, more like "biased".

I use DP/Armageddon instead of fomalhaut when situations calls for it.

My DRK friend uses apoc/calad/liberator way more often than Anguta.

My WAR friend uses Ukon just as often as Chango.

My BLU friend uses Almace or Tizona quite often instead of sequence all things.

My DNC friend uses terp 90% of time.....you get the point.

Also fairly certain Masa is still the best weapon for TP zerg with right TP set, based on last sim result discussions.

All of above jobs are melee jobs.

This entire argument is just one side repeatedly uses "These weapons are useless because I said so" as their only argument, ignoring FACTS that plenty of passionate players uses them ALL.

[Halley]

"Matters" or not is subjective. I'm not even sure if "subjective" is accurate description now, more like "biased".

I use DP/Armageddon instead of fomalhaut when situations calls for it. Not melee for the 5th time

My DRK friend uses apoc/calad/liberator way more often than Anguta.still lolscythe, pay attention

My WAR friend uses Ukon just as often as Chango. Your friend is bad and should feel bad

My BLU friend uses Almace or Tizona quite often instead of sequence all things.No one should be sequencing all the things, that's only because CDC doesn't really benefit from the 500 tp bonus. there's a 100% chance if your friend uses zona they're terrible.

My DNC friend uses terp 90% of time.....you get the point.

Also fairly certain Masa is still the best weapon for TP zerg with right TP set, based on last sim result discussions.

All of above jobs are melee jobs.
FACTS

The word fact and the part about dnc is the only part that was correct

Everything you stated was opinion. You LIKE to use this weapon instead of that weapon. your friend LIKES to use this instead of that.

How you feel about it doesn't matter.

[Shiyo]

Yeah your 200m item that takes weeks of time to make you cannot bypass with gil is sometimes situationally better or a literal macro piece while aeonics are free, take 4-5 hours to finish with a proper group and are better nearly all the time.

THAT is the issue.
THAT is why aeonics need to be nerfed into the ground or have a step added that makes them cost 200m+, which honestly still wouldn't be enough since you can make EIGHTEEN people one aeonic in a day while it takes WEEKS to make a single mythic or emp.

Aeonics were just a gigantic mistake, they go against the entire design of the game and don't belong. They need to be forgotten and left behind to rot as we move forward.

[Nyarlko]

Just curious, but Shiyo and Halley.. how many Aeonics do you have? If they are as easy to acquire as you guys declare them to be, you should both have all of them by now right? :D

How well does the club perform for WHM? I've never heard much talk about it, and I've actually known some diehard melee WHMs.

You guys also forgot about Tri-Edge. Just because it's not normally the best idea to whack things yourself does not make BST any less officially a melee/frontline job. >_<;; I personally hate meleeing on BST due to the miserable lack of incentive to do so built into the job, but the devs decreed that we are intended to be doing so, so why was this not included in the "ALL AEONICS ARE BIS" debate?

I'm planning to make the Aeonic staff next for Occult Acumen shenanigans with BLM, and actually plan to whack things with it! I'm looking forward to multistep solo sc+mb. As BLM. XD (SCH can do it too, and it's even a bit easier for them than for BLM.)
Light: Full Swing > (Heavy Swing / Rock Crusher / Earth Crusher / Full Swing) [Fusion] > Vidohunir [Light]
Dark: (Earth Crusher / Shell Crusher) > (Starburst / Sunburst / Cataclysm) [Gravitation] > Vidohunir [Darkness]
OR simpler: Vidohunir <> (Retribution / Shattersoul) [Darkness]
It's even possible to stretch them out a bit more if you really want to, but will need Impact and an Aspir-able target, or TP wings, to pull off anything beyond 4-5 WS in a row IIRC. My point being with this that just because something's not a "melee" weapon, doesn't mean that it should be ignored in a comparison discussion. ^^

[Kishr]

I'm still curious where this free in 4-5 hours comes from....

[Afania]

The word fact and the part about dnc is the only part that was correct

Everything you stated was opinion. You LIKE to use this weapon instead of that weapon. your friend LIKES to use this instead of that.

How you feel about it doesn't matter.

All of the weapons mentioned above are not emotional argument. If anything, only using ONE weapon is for everything is emotional argument, not logic.

Ukon: It's drastically underrated, I blame someone on forum bashing it here and there on AH WAR forum. On paper/spreadsheet it totally surpasses Chango if SC doesn't matter, and beats Mont +1/reso build if fight lasts more than 2 min and prebuffed with AM3. It also performs better if NM has some sort of amnesia move.

I've played with Ukon WAR who also owns Mont +1/Chango from time to time and parsed all things, Ukon isn't inferior in every way. Most of the time you see Mont+1/Chango winning then another time Ukon wins because situations favor it.

But thanks to that one person bash it so hard everytime ukon is mentioned because he doesn't have it himself, community thinks it's bad.

Going to make it bold so everyone can read: Ukon is not a bad weapon, stop believing some vocal player's pov about it. In practice it's totally competitive with GS on parse while providing fusion WS.


Apoc: How'd Catastrophe a "lolscythe" when it can save people's ass? I listed multiple occasions that benefits it already.

BLU: Ok so you agree that sequence isn't BiS, lolk, proved my point. "If you use tizona you're terrible" is biased statement. But either way, sequence isn't meant to be full timed.



How you feel about it doesn't matter.

Using apoc when you're dying isn't making decision by feelings, it's making decision by logic. It makes more sense to use apoc when you're dying than not. Using Ukon in 3 min fight when you can prebuff with AM or with amnesia move isn't decision by feelings, it's decision by logic. Using whatever isn't sequence when light SC is required isn't feelings, it's logic. And the list goes on.

If anything, you're the only person argue about feelings, not logic here.

[Shiyo]

Parses are completely useless in this game and have no baring on whether or not a weapon is good not. There's far too much player error, rng, and variance in this game for them to be useful for anything.

Every emp is BIS in perma-amnesia land, it doesn't mean aeonics aren't superior 99.99% of the time, because they are.

That's the issue, the vast majority of non-aeonic ultimate weapons are niche, situational, or outright outclassed in every single situation by aeonics or CRAFTED weapons while requiring WEEKS of work(especially mythics!!) and ~200m gil vs aeonics requiring 1 day and and 0 gil.

Aeonics shouldn't be ANYWHERE near as powerful as they are when you factor in how little gil(zero) and time they take in comparison to other ultimate weapons(again, especially mythics).

You also have to factor in that by Aeonics being so easy, cheap, and quick to make(I mean, go look at peoples xiah profiles with 2-3 rows of aeonics and 0-2 of other RME's, max. It's very apparent they're too easy to make.) you end up where there's a LOT less things to work towards and grind towards in the game, and a lot less goals to make. That's a really, really, really bad thing to have in a game that gets ONE content update a year. People run out of things to do so fast because mythics/emps are a real long grind that people are completely ignoring since they're either garbage weapons(mythics, all of the melee ones) or too situational/niche for people to waste their time when they can just make an aeonic in a day and have a BIS weapon for 99.99% situations, or one good enough that they don't care to spend weeks-months on a slightly better weapon.

Buff relics, MASSIVELY buff mythics/emps ,and nerf aeonics to the GROUND.

[camaroz]

@Nyarlko "How well does the club perform for WHM? I've never heard much talk about it, and I've actually known some diehard melee WHMs."

Yag specifically with AM beats everything

P.S. If they hadn't nerfed Realmrazer Tishtrya might have been THE club.

[Afania]

Parses are completely useless in this game and have no baring on whether or not a weapon is good not. There's far too much player error, rng, and variance in this game for them to be useful for anything.

Every emp is BIS in perma-amnesia land, it doesn't mean aeonics aren't superior 99.99% of the time, because they are.



You don't approve parses, you don't approve spreadsheet, and yet you repeatly claim aeonic is best 99.99% of time. Exactly where does this claim came from? If someone make a statement like "X gear is best", they need a reason. Either math, spreadsheet, or parses. But atm, you are providing none, except "it's best because I said so"

Hell, not even general community view aeonic as best of very best among REMA weapons. Many discussions still support Masa for SAM TP spam, sequence/savage build still isn't a thing for blu, and serious DD DRK certainly prioritize calad over anguta. I seriously don't understand how this "aeonic is best 99.9999% of time" came from.

DRG, NIN, THF. Those jobs has god tier aeonics, that's it. For every other jobs claiming their aeonic is best 99.99999% of time is flat out wrong.



You also have to factor in that by Aeonics being so easy, cheap, and quick to make(I mean, go look at peoples xiah profiles with 2-3 rows of aeonics and 0-2 of other RME's, max. It's very apparent they're too easy to make.) you end up where there's a LOT less things to work towards and grind towards in the game, and a lot less goals to make.

Even with aeonics so easy, it's still incredibly time consuming to cap on 2+ jobs. Just having aeonic isn't enough for min maxers. Real min maxers would also get every single HQ and other REMA for niche use.

Those who finish an aeonic and quit, they'd quit anyways, just let them.

[DarkValefor]

I'd actually say in most situations it's aeonics that are situational, in zergs where you are not SCing empys usually win. Also I love how aeonics cost no gil and no effort, might be only me, but before I could get into an aeonic group I got 3 mythics, 4 relics and 2 empys and I had to spend quite a few gil into pop items.

[Nyarlko]

@Nyarlko "How well does the club perform for WHM? I've never heard much talk about it, and I've actually known some diehard melee WHMs."

Yag specifically with AM beats everything

P.S. If they hadn't nerfed Realmrazer Tishtrya might have been THE club.

That's too bad. :( I was kinda picturing beefy Mystic Boon spam keeping a WHM topped off on MP at all times w/o interfering with skillchains and ridiculous self-sc'ing like I plan to do with BLM. How'd they nerf Realmrazer?

[Justuas]

We'll see how the aeonics compare to the new weapons they are going to release at some point.

[camaroz]

That's too bad. :( I was kinda picturing beefy Mystic Boon spam keeping a WHM topped off on MP at all times w/o interfering with skillchains and ridiculous self-sc'ing like I plan to do with BLM. How'd they nerf Realmrazer?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/17245-dev1049-New-weapon-skills?p=242770#post242770

Basically they screwed whm's. See Camate's and then read Kalilla reply which is 100%

[Nyarlko]

We'll see how the aeonics compare to the new weapons they are going to release at some point.

According to the POL front page, the Divergence weapons are coming next month (and reconfirmed that you will need a completed Escutcheon to synth them)... Also, sounds to me like the mats will be from the surprise Wave3's getting added, which is possibly better than my prior personal speculation at least. ^^;; Still, even though they're probably gonna cost an arm+leg, the ability to buy a RMEA equivalent weapon from the AH is coming very soon.


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/17245-dev1049-New-weapon-skills?p=242770#post242770

Basically they screwed whm's. See Camate's and then read Kalilla reply which is 100%

I see. I took a many years long break and only came back a few years ago, so never got to see what the original stats on them were. I will say that I really don't like the shaky logic that was used to justify their actions at the time, and that the reasonings behind the changes are now severely out of date and should be considered for buffing once again. Probably a good ~90% of weapon skills in the game are avoided whenever possible now because of MAJOR gaps in damage output and used only when skillchains are important enough to ignore the WS damage.

[Kishr]

Noone said a real fact about this 4-5 hour for free clear.