FIX Relic Weapons

[Unctgtg]

Title says it all, you need to seriously rehaul relic weapons and make them the best of the best again. Its sad enough that a little Emp weapon that is 100x easier to get then a relic, can churn out 8,000 points of damage in a single WS, when I can barely touch 3k and have the strongest Weapon ingame at 140 damage. Think about it. You even have said yourself they are going to be the strongest ingame again, but it needs to happen now. The 25% increase was nice but we need more.

[Kimiko]

Or actually make some relics actually *gasp* useful (I'm talking to you Claustrum!)

[Serafyn]

They did already say they were making major upgrades to all the Relics to make them the Best of the Best again.(Possbily ever for some?)
Don't worry Unc your Apoc will be more useful once again! Maybe they've make the haste Bonus Magic based instead of gear based...who knows...but they said they're fixing them eventually.

[Unctgtg]

Where did they say this. I only saw it in an interview months and months and months ago. Only thing I have seen is Aegis is going to get more buffed. They need to make adjustments NOW. I didn't kill 9500 mobs with Killshot (until they lowered it) to have a piece of junk that has Acc. I want confirmation from them. lol

[Serafyn]

Their Twitter account from a few months back, actually a few days before they mentioned fixing Aegis.

[Kerfuffle]

First sorry but your 140dmg Relic isn't most in the game. My gun is 168 now :P. Either way we both do crap dmg compared to the new stuff. So yes good upgrades will be nice.

[Treasurehider]

Or actually make some relics actually *gasp* useful (I'm talking to you Claustrum!)

^ This a thousand times. All the other chat about "all relics being best of best" a million times. But I have to point this comment out because first it made me LOL, second it's soooo true.

I'd love to see a serious response from a dev to a question, "Wtf were you guys smoking originally?"
Did you think Black Mages would set themselves up as a DD? I just don't quite understand I guess.

[Showmo]

I would like to see relics fixed sometime soon as well. It was one thing to keep players waiting all the way until level 90 just to see a 25% weapon skill improvement, but its another to have empyrean weapons still triumph over relics for several months without seeing anything else being done. I hope the future boosts they give is something major and not something minor which causes relics to only be "slightly" better than empyrean weapons.

[Kimara]

I'm with you on this tgtg. Though I don't have a relic weapon myself (working on eymp) I thnk that the people that put real time into getting relic weapons should get a major upgrade. They should go back to being the best weapons in the game.

[Karumac]

I believe their real solution is this Dynamis update: Make Relics easier to get instead of making them more powerful.

[Tamarsamar]

Empyrean Weapons require less effort to obtain than Relic Weapons, and offer a superior product. How is this game balance?

There are two acceptable ways to fix this at this point, the more obvious one (more powerful Relics) already outlined by this thread. However, there is also the option of making Relic Weapons easier to obtain, and with the adjustments outlined for Dynamis for the next major update, that appears to be the route that the devs are taking.

[Unctgtg]

I believe their real solution is this Dynamis update: Make Relics easier to get instead of making them more powerful.

That makes no sense at all.

[Karumac]

Honestly, making Relics easier to obtain is fine. It's not like they have the broken special powers that a lot of Mythics seem to carry.

[Unctgtg]

Honestly, making Relics easier to obtain is fine. It's not like they have the broken special powers that a lot of Mythics seem to carry.

They are making them easier, then they will lose the old player base including me.

[Unctgtg]

They are making them easier, then they will lose the old player base including me.

They said they were making them the best of the best, but that needs to happen now, not later

[Swazy]

I posted this in the similar thread in the feedback section, but this thread seems to be a lot more active, so I'll repost it here:

An easy, legitimate fix for relic weapons, in my opinion, is at 95 or 99, remove the current aftermath effect as being aftermath, and place it on the weapon as a base stat (and I understand that some weapons may need some adjustment in this category, such as Excalibur - 10/tic regen is very strong to keep as a constant idle effect - perhaps a lesser regen, or make the effects latent so they are only active when engaged), but most effects are not. Apoc's 10% haste is not allowing excessive haste since the game caps at 25% haste from gear (just allows you to wear different gear really, does not truly effect the max amount of haste you have on DRK since you can hit haste cap without it), and 7 Store TP from the Amano is fairly useless as an aftermath, but amazing as a base stat on the weapon.

Remove the current aftermath effects as aftermaths and make them base stats on the weapon. Change the current aftermath to be either the same as empyrean aftermaths, or more ideally, place the aftermath times on a 15-45 second scale depending on TP, and give it an occasionally attacks twice effect (or even 10-30 if you feel 15-45 is too overpowered). Certain WS for relics could possibly use some adjustment as well, but

Concerning mythics, what makes them exceptionally weak is that they don't have unique weaponskills, relatively low base damage compared to their relic/empyrean counterparts, and disappointing aftermath. It would be excellent to give them a totally unique, Mythic-only WS at 95/99. In turn, you can give the new WS aftermath effect as well as the old WS. Perhaps different aftermath effects if necessary and not too overwhelming. Also, adjusting the aftermath effect as discussed with relic weapons would be a viable option. Maybe giving a marginal portion of the level 1/2 aftermaths as a base stat on the weapon would be best, and make the level 3 aftermath effect the same at 100/200 TP, but just a shorter duration.

[Unctgtg]

I would be happy with 30-40% Double damage procs as we call them Relic Procs, and 500 more damage on WSs then emp.

[Andevom]

I believe their real solution is this Dynamis update: Make Relics easier to get instead of making them more powerful.

That makes no sense at all.

Of course it makes sense. Additions have been made to the game, relic weapons just aren't the best anymore. They're not bad, but they're not the best. That said, no one is going to want to go through a ton of work to get one. But, if they're easy to get, they're a nice alternative until you get the better stuff. Make it easier to get, more incentive to bother obtaining it.

If you made them the most powerful weapons again, what would be the point in getting Empyreans?

[OxfordComma]

Why do people expect this game to stay stagnant? It doesn't matter how hard you've worked or how many people you've used/RMTed currency to obtain your relic. New weapons are available, go get them and accept the fact that things change. Or do Magian trials to upgrade your old weapon and live in the past; you should be glad that the developers even gave you that option to begin with. World of Warcraft has similar weapons, and with every expansion or raid they become outdated. In that game, players readily accept that. Why can't you?

The point of any MMO is to get new gear, not to use the same weapon from 4 years ago. Mythics and empyreans were a step in the right direction. The game is evolving and it's better than it ever has been, relic owners need to evolve with it and stop crying.

[Valiarius]

They are making them easier, then they will lose the old player base including me.

Goodbye, don't get hit by the door on the way out.

No, seriously, relics are now gonna be easier to obtain than ever, thank goodness. There is not a reason that they should be as hard to obtain as they were. I mean, it's great if a person puts a lot of effort into a relic weapon, but when a single person makes all of his LS work towards HIS weapon for years and all they get in return is a Thank you, if at all, there is some serious imbalance there. The LS leader and the people helping him(her) should all be equally rewarded.

[Fetus]

Why do people expect this game to stay stagnant? It doesn't matter how hard you've worked or how many people you've used/RMTed currency to obtain your relic. New weapons are available, go get them and accept the fact that things change. Or do Magian trials to upgrade your old weapon and live in the past; you should be glad that the developers even gave you that option to begin with. World of Warcraft has similar weapons, and with every expansion or raid they become outdated. In that game, players readily accept that. Why can't you?

The point of any MMO is to get new gear, not to use the same weapon from 4 years ago. Mythics and empyreans were a step in the right direction. The game is evolving and it's better than it ever has been, relic owners need to evolve with it and stop crying.

I pretty much agree on all points. The only real opinion I have about Relic weapons, in general, is that most of the additional effects are lame, most of the WS are lame and most of the aftermath effects are lame.

60%AGI mod on Geirskogul? Shock Spikes as an aftermath? Seriously...

The additional effects need to be updated or replaced entirely. Most of the WS need to be seriously reinvented... status modifiers and TP modifier values need to be adjusted and/or changed. WS that look like they're multi-hit should be... I always thought that was ridiculous. Most of the aftermath effects are garbage. Relics need to become more stream-lined like Empyrean weapons are.

[Wojo]

I believe their real solution is this Dynamis update: Make Relics easier to get instead of making them more powerful.

Glad I waited to try to accomplish that. Same goes for the empy, adjustments should make those easier to get.

If you think you relic is gimp thats because new content is added that obsoletes what is already out. Look at my AF1, man that stuff used to ROCK back when the level cap was 60. Now? not so much. In the exact same way , your salvage gear and relics used to rock when the level cap was 75. Now? not so much.

This is how the game always worked so it shouldn't be a surprise.

But what the game really needs is new materials and craftable items to pick the economy back up.

[Aeonk]

I'm with you on this tgtg. Though I don't have a relic weapon myself (working on eymp) I thnk that the people that put real time into getting relic weapons should get a major upgrade. They should go back to being the best weapons in the game.
Relics have been top dog for 7 years. That's a long time to sit on the throne without eventually being expected to do some work (like get an empyrean) to maintain it.

[Kyoshin]

I would be happy with 30-40% Double damage procs as we call them Relic Procs, and 500 more damage on WSs then emp.

Sorry Unc, but 500 more damage on WSs? Compare Final Heaven with Victory Smite. Blade: Metsu with Blade: Hi.

That's just not happening with how the weapon skills actually function, for some of them. :/

[Unctgtg]

Kyo u know what I mean. You of all people should know I have been very patient with SE, granted some of my rants on vent made a bad sailor seem like an angel lol

500 more WS damage meaning if a War uses Emp WS and hits 8k I want to hit 8.5k on my WS or more. highest damage weapons should deal the most damage plain and simple lol.

So SE fix your game, or give us confirmation you plain on overhauling the rest of relics like you said with aegis.

[Kyoshin]

Kyo u know what I mean. You of all people should know I have been very patient with SE, granted some of my rants on vent made a bad sailor seem like an angel lol

500 more WS damage meaning if a War uses Emp WS and hits 8k I want to hit 8.5k on my WS or more. highest damage weapons should deal the most damage plain and simple lol.

So SE fix your game, or give us confirmation you plain on overhauling the rest of relics like you said with aegis.

Ukko's Fury won't heal the WAR for 4k, though. >>;

There are good sides to both types of weapons, I'd think.

[Orson]

There's no reason that upgraded Relics/Mythics shouldn't at least be on par with Emp weapons. Also making Relics and Mythics easier to get (which I'm skeptical that they will) isn't really a bad thing again if they're on par with creating Emp weapons. This game is pushing towards a more casual play and that's not a bad thing.

[Delvante]

I would like to see relics a bit more obtainable. There are a lot of people in this game that deserve the relic weapon but are just not able to put forth the time required to do Dynamis or farm all the money necessary to purchase all the coinage and such in order to get their relic done. Me personally, I have a very hard time putting an excessive amount of time into FFXI. Yes I know some would say "well that sucks to be you" and all that but in all honesty, just because my life requires more of my time than others doesn't mean I don't want/deserve on an equal level to have the best weapon in the game. I seriously do hope they make it a bit better to obtain. I'm not saying make it super easy or anything but there are definitely those (myself included) that would like to get their hands on a relic especially after playing for over 7 years, that just can't put forth that kind of time consistently because of work schedule and other life circumstances that dictate an inability to do so. These are my thoughts...

On a side note, I have mad respect and give mad props to those that have theirs, way to go! :)

[Tempo]

I think relics should be boosted back to the top aswell, a good start would be to boost up the hidden dmg. The 25% relic weapon skill boost was nice but nowere near enough.

It would be nice to get word on this from se at least one way or the other so we know, im aware someone said in this thread it was mentioned on twitter they would be boosting them back to the top but i can't remember reading this unless i went blind haha.

[Alhanelem]

Or actually make some relics actually *gasp* useful (I'm talking to you Claustrum!)
It's a weapon. It's meant ot be used as a weapon. And, as a weapon, it's good. It's particularly good for summoners, though not so much for BLM. I was working on it for a while but never finished (Dynamis Staff, partway to Thyrus), and now I'm getting the empyrean staff for the same reason. There are times when such a thing is useful, if you're set up for it.

[Arcon]

It's a weapon. It's meant ot be used as a weapon. And, as a weapon, it's good.

So how do you explain elemental staves? Or pretty much any other staff in the game? Are they bad weapons? Then why use them? Because what makes mage weapons useful is not what makes melee weapons useful. As a melee weapon it's useful, as a mage weapon it's not. And since that's what mages are, while it has some niche uses, it doesn't play to the strengths of the job, and in fact using it prevents you from using elemental staves and other weapons, making you actually worse at what you're supposed to do, hence you can't really call it useful.

I see many people saying things like "gear gets obsolete", "the game moves on, move on with it" and stuff like that. However that's not all there is to it, and SE knows that. It's about years of effort, years of some people's lives invested in something, that's made obsolete. It's a matter of drawing the line, some items are meant to be forgotten, even good items. Kirin's Osode, Hagun, Blau Dolch, etc. a ton of items considered good, even great, are now useless, and that already pissed off tons of people. But there had to be losses somewhere, for the game to not get stagnant. But should that apply to absolutely everything? Remember people were still using elemental staves, certain AF pieces and even miscellaneous items like Swift Belt or Soboro at 75. Old doesn't always mean they shouldn't be used anymore. As I said, it's a matter of drawing the line, what should be obsolete and what shouldn't. And wasting years of hard work is not what a dev team should do, and they know that very well, otherwise they wouldn't have made relics upgradeable and now even talk about making AF2, which is incredibly easy to come by these days, augmentable too.

However, just upgrading relics a little is still wasting all the effort. Why? Because people who are after relics want them, because they want the best. That's the entire motivation behind spending a lot of time and money into it, to ultimately gain (sometimes even only a small) edge over all other available weapons. If they aren't the best anymore, all that time and money is still wasted, because it disregards the motivation behind obtaining those weapons. And personally I believe they know that too, it seems like they're trying to restore relics to their former glory, just being a bit awkward about it.

My opinion isn't that they should make relics much stronger, but rather nerf some empyreans, or at least their WS. Some of them are insanely overpowered imo, as I said before, some relics only had a small advantage over other weapons in the same category, mythics are often even worse. Empyrean weapons on the other hand all (or all I know of at least) seem to have a huge advantage over other weapons, something that's impossible to keep up with. Relics still required skill to be good, you had to know how to play and what to gear for which situations. In contrast, every empyrean has a native power to that weapon alone, that compensates for lack of everything else. Sure, having skill and gear will improve the damage output even more, but it's not required to beat a decent player otherwise.

In my opinion things that are hard to obtain should be good, or at least decent, but more importantly, it should also apply vice versa: things that are good, especially things that are exceptional, should not be easy to obtain. And that is currently my main problem with empyrean weapons, they are way too good for the effort it takes to obtain them. Some things should just be balanced out.

[Alhanelem]

Because what makes mage weapons useful is not what makes melee weapons useful.If you break out of the mentality that a SMN has to use a low damage staff with avatar perp cost (which is in such overabundance it's not really even needed anymore), it's a powerful weapon. Different weapons for different situations. It's not making you worse at what you do when you capitalize on your strengths. Or are you one of those people that think the only thing SMN can do is buff and cast Cure IV, or throw pets at NMs and run?

The empyrean weaponskill can return you a massive amount of MP- more than the amount you would have spent on perpetuation costs. So can Spirit Taker. Even the magic weapon skills are perfectly good with it since the base DMG of the weapon is still important. The relic weaponskill gives 8mp/tick refresh as an aftermath, so if you keep using it, it's better than any perp staff in existence.

The Empyrean and Relic staves are good if you utilize a playstyle to take advantage of them. Of course you're not going to nuke with a melee damage weapon (though, it's not as implausable as you might think because of Occult Accumen), but Summoner can easily make good use of Claustrum or Hvergelmir. And if you're one of those people, they are good weapons. It may be an optional piece of equipment that gains you an advantage in a lesser used strategy, but if it's your cup of tea, you should feel no shame in going for one.

[Purraj]

Why do people expect this game to stay stagnant? It doesn't matter how hard you've worked or how many people you've used/RMTed currency to obtain your relic. New weapons are available, go get them and accept the fact that things change. Or do Magian trials to upgrade your old weapon and live in the past; you should be glad that the developers even gave you that option to begin with. World of Warcraft has similar weapons, and with every expansion or raid they become outdated. In that game, players readily accept that. Why can't you?

The point of any MMO is to get new gear, not to use the same weapon from 4 years ago. Mythics and empyreans were a step in the right direction. The game is evolving and it's better than it ever has been, relic owners need to evolve with it and stop crying.

I couldn't agree with this more. Relics had their time. For around 7 years or so there wasn't a weapon that even came close. Relics were on a tier of their own. That being said, the event that was required to obtain them is now archaic and ridiculously easy. Even if it takes a large amount of currency to get them, a party of 6 at 90 can destroy just about everything inside. People tend to forget that relics also aren't terrible, they just aren't the best. In comparison to Empyrean weapons they do fall short, particularly in the unique WS department. However, outside of abyssea and the use of Razed Ruins/Sanguine Scythe/Gnarled horn and the such, relics are still very close to the top. I don't figure that SE plans for nothing else challenging to ever come out, and I'd suspect that what does will be non-abyssea. Your precious relics will still be relevant and still parse high, but maybe not as highly, it all depends.

All of this being said, almost every other single game in history that has released an expansion pack or raised a level cap has made gear from the previous endeavors less useful. Such is the natural flow of life, things from the past become less relevant. You'd best learn to deal with this or be sadly disappointed at what you see.


500 more WS damage meaning if a War uses Emp WS and hits 8k I want to hit 8.5k on my WS or more. highest damage weapons should deal the most damage plain and simple lol.

Also, I would like to point out how ridiculous this sounds. In order for them to allow for this to happen, assuming you are talking about Catastrophe, would mean you'd full heal yourself every time you WS (I believe someone mentioned this), which is absurd, and would mean that they make it critical hit based, which would also likely break it. The only problem you deal with is that you can't do critical WS dmg inside of abyssea like some Empyrean WSs can. You're viewing the game in such a very narrow scope; One instance of a vastly large game, however overly played that instance CURRENTLY is, does not constitute a revamping of an otherwise amazing weapon.

[Unctgtg]

I couldn't agree with this more. Relics had their time. For around 7 years or so there wasn't a weapon that even came close. Relics were on a tier of their own. That being said, the event that was required to obtain them is now archaic and ridiculously easy. Even if it takes a large amount of currency to get them, a party of 6 at 90 can destroy just about everything inside. People tend to forget that relics also aren't terrible, they just aren't the best. In comparison to Empyrean weapons they do fall short, particularly in the unique WS department. However, outside of abyssea and the use of Razed Ruins/Sanguine Scythe/Gnarled horn and the such, relics are still very close to the top. I don't figure that SE plans for nothing else challenging to ever come out, and I'd suspect that what does will be non-abyssea. Your precious relics will still be relevant and still parse high, but maybe not as highly, it all depends.

All of this being said, almost every other single game in history that has released an expansion pack or raised a level cap has made gear from the previous endeavors less useful. Such is the natural flow of life, things from the past become less relevant. You'd best learn to deal with this or be sadly disappointed at what you see.



Also, I would like to point out how ridiculous this sounds. In order for them to allow for this to happen, assuming you are talking about Catastrophe, would mean you'd full heal yourself every time you WS (I believe someone mentioned this), which is absurd, and would mean that they make it critical hit based, which would also likely break it. The only problem you deal with is that you can't do critical WS dmg inside of abyssea like some Empyrean WSs can. You're viewing the game in such a very narrow scope; One instance of a vastly large game, however overly played that instance CURRENTLY is, does not constitute a revamping of an otherwise amazing weapon.

Even outside abyssea the emp. are hitting for 3-4k far above what relics can hit for. Most of you commenting about saying current blah blah blah, don't have a relic, and/or didn't have to kill 9500 mobs with a freaking Killshot (before this recent downgrade) for trials to see what a modest increase in base damage and ACC. Give me a freaking break, we have been shit upon time and time again. Its time for SE to step up, and fix mythics and relics.

[Zetonegi]

Even outside abyssea the emp. are hitting for 3-4k far above what relics can hit for. Most of you commenting about saying current blah blah blah, don't have a relic, and/or didn't have to kill 9500 mobs with a freaking Killshot (before this recent downgrade) for trials to see what a modest increase in base damage and ACC. Give me a freaking break, we have been shit upon time and time again. Its time for SE to step up, and fix mythics and relics.
The first thing that comes to mind with trying to fix relics/mythics is giving them the Empyrian WS(or in the case of some relics Yoichi and I think 1 or 2 more, Latent Effect Empy WS which works as long as your main job can use the empyrian in question) Most of the relic WSs are notoriously bad. The other alternative is to super buff the relic WSs so they're on par or better than the Empyrian WSs. Beyond that, ya relics/mythics need a HUGEoverhaul in general.

[Xera]

Even outside abyssea the emp. are hitting for 3-4k far above what relics can hit for. Most of you commenting about saying current blah blah blah, don't have a relic, and/or didn't have to kill 9500 mobs with a freaking Killshot (before this recent downgrade) for trials to see what a modest increase in base damage and ACC. Give me a freaking break, we have been shit upon time and time again. Its time for SE to step up, and fix mythics and relics.

Don't forget the majority of the relic WS were flawed long before Emp weapons existed, essentially making relics shiny high base D weapons(with some unneeded accuracy and low ODD[ish]).

[Sama]

Most of you commenting about saying current blah blah blah, don't have a relic, and/or didn't have to kill 9500 mobs with a freaking Killshot (before this recent downgrade) for trials to see what a modest increase in base damage and ACC. Give me a freaking break, we have been shit upon time and time again. Its time for SE to step up, and fix mythics and relics.

Seriously that 2k kill shot is crazy... I wonder whose idea was that in SE I really want to see his/her face.

[Kiba]

Even outside abyssea the emp. are hitting for 3-4k far above what relics can hit for. Most of you commenting about saying current blah blah blah, don't have a relic, and/or didn't have to kill 9500 mobs with a freaking Killshot (before this recent downgrade) for trials to see what a modest increase in base damage and ACC. Give me a freaking break, we have been shit upon time and time again. Its time for SE to step up, and fix mythics and relics.

What you have expressed above perfectly describes how relic/mythic owners feel at the moment. It is very depressing myself to enter abyssea with a lvl 90 apoc with the most optimizing atmas to only be able to produce damage output that is variable whereas an empyrean weapon can yield consistent static numbers at least 1-2k damage above what I do. Previous posters have explained times have changed adapt to new changes but some things are easier said than done. I am currently working on an empyrean h2h, but I am most certain that no matter how great it will be my relic will hold more value to me due to the amount of time and effort I put in to earn it. God yes I did do the trials requiring 1.5-2k kills before they were updated months ago >_<

Okay, now here is what I would like to address to contribute:
[dev1005] Relic & Mythic Weapon Adjustments
(Yes I really hope that this becomes a dev topic)

Problem: While adventurers are enjoying abyssea and treasures attained including the mighty empyrean weapons, balance between these new weapons and the previous top tier weapons introduced(relics & mythics) are being ignored. We understand the development team's support on making the game oriented for casual playing(less time grind, enjoy the game more) however this should not be a reason to ignore the balance and disregard the efforts put in by players whom attained relic and mythic weapons. Although the concept of relics will be the best is no longer justified due to times changed, relic/mythic weapon owners still believe that relics and mythic weapons should still be comparable to empyrean weapons considering the amount of time and effort spent.

Solution: Please adjust the Weapon Skill Damage Modifiers for the Relic & Mythic Weapon Skills to be on par with Empyrean Weapon Skills. Relic & Mythic Weapons do not necessarily need to be better than Empyrean Weapons
but the damage output difference of thousands is not really acceptable. So please, Development Team, give attention
on this area and apply adjustments.

Further Notes:
A few weeks back there was a twitter post on Aegis and Ochain. The twitter post had good intentions of addressing balance between the two shields, however the following was ignored- with shell a paladin with aegis can cap magic defense. So applying more -magic damage taken serves no purpose of improving the situation. So unless a relic job ability, trait, weapon skill, or adjustment to shield bash timer or damage for Aegis is introduced, further enhancements in magic defense would accomplish nothing. Development Team please review this and reconsider your plans on this.

[dev1000] Dynamis Reborn: With dynamis being adjusted as a relic owner I hope the Development Team considers not making relic weapons easier to attain but change the means of attaining to be more possible. For the longest time players have expressed that building a relic weapon requires mostly time to attain currency which puts a large number of the player base at a disadvantage. Following the success of how empyrean weapons are attained through work fighting notorious monsters and trials to upgrade weapons the same should be applied with relic weapons so that these are possible to attain for the average player who is willing to put in the effort. So instead of downgrading the difficulty of making a relic weapon to what is done with walk of echoes weapons, introduce a new means to build relic weapons that is acceptable to everyone.

Thank you. /bow

[Unctgtg]

What you have expressed above perfectly describes how relic/mythic owners feel at the moment. It is very depressing myself to enter abyssea with a lvl 90 apoc with the most optimizing atmas to only be able to produce damage output that is variable whereas an empyrean weapon can yield consistent static numbers at least 1-2k damage above what I do. Previous posters have explained times have changed adapt to new changes but some things are easier said than done. I am currently working on an empyrean h2h, but I am most certain that no matter how great it will be my relic will hold more value to me due to the amount of time and effort I put in to earn it. God yes I did do the trials requiring 1.5-2k kills before they were updated months ago >_<

Okay, now here is what I would like to address to contribute:
[dev1005] Relic & Mythic Weapon Adjustments
(Yes I really hope that this becomes a dev topic)

Problem: While adventurers are enjoying abyssea and treasures attained including the mighty empyrean weapons, balance between these new weapons and the previous top tier weapons introduced(relics & mythics) are being ignored. We understand the development team's support on making the game oriented for casual playing(less time grind, enjoy the game more) however this should not be a reason to ignore the balance and disregard the efforts put in by players whom attained relic and mythic weapons. Although the concept of relics will be the best is no longer justified due to times changed, relic/mythic weapon owners still believe that relics and mythic weapons should still be comparable to empyrean weapons considering the amount of time and effort spent.

Solution: Please adjust the Weapon Skill Damage Modifiers for the Relic & Mythic Weapon Skills to be on par with Empyrean Weapon Skills. Relic & Mythic Weapons do not necessarily need to be better than Empyrean Weapons
but the damage output difference of thousands is not really acceptable. So please, Development Team, give attention
on this area and apply adjustments.

Further Notes:
A few weeks back there was a twitter post on Aegis and Ochain. The twitter post had good intentions of addressing balance between the two shields, however the following was ignored- with shell a paladin with aegis can cap magic defense. So applying more -magic damage taken serves no purpose of improving the situation. So unless a relic job ability, trait, weapon skill, or adjustment to shield bash timer or damage for Aegis is introduced, further enhancements in magic defense would accomplish nothing. Development Team please review this and reconsider your plans on this.

[dev1000] Dynamis Reborn: With dynamis being adjusted as a relic owner I hope the Development Team considers not making relic weapons easier to attain but change the means of attaining to be more possible. For the longest time players have expressed that building a relic weapon requires mostly time to attain currency which puts a large number of the player base at a disadvantage. Following the success of how empyrean weapons are attained through work fighting notorious monsters and trials to upgrade weapons the same should be applied with relic weapons so that these are possible to attain for the average player who is willing to put in the effort. So instead of downgrading the difficulty of making a relic weapon to what is done with walk of echoes weapons, introduce a new means to build relic weapons that is acceptable to everyone.

Thank you. /bow

Post that in suggestions PLEASE.

They are lowering the drop rate on currency anyways based off their posts today.

[Lost1anguage]

SE needs to fix not only relic weapons, but mythic weapons as well. To be completely honest the amount of willful blindness that has gone into the creation and augmentation of both sets is just baffling. For how many jobs are their respective mythics even slightly tempting? SMN, WHM, PLD, maybe COR? Relics are also jokes compared to their Emp. counterparts when you compare their output vs the effort required to obtain them. This just shouldn't be, SE needs to really take a look at how people play their jobs and fully revise each set and their weaponskills (mods/aftermaths) to facilitate the existing and current player base as opposed to whatever player base they thought existed when they created them. Every job should have a real tough choice if/when they have to chose between obtaining a relic/mythic/empyrean.

And for crying out loud can we finally add the TOAU and WOTG jobs to the relic weapon user lists?

[Kiba]

Post that in suggestions PLEASE.

They are lowering the drop rate on currency anyways based off their posts today.

Done. Had to recreate thread after noticing the specific format the community relations members are looking for as far as tags. The game is really developing well, just a few areas like this that needs to be given attention. Hope something good comes out of this.

[Kiba]

Interesting just checked the JP Community is also concerned on Relic & Mythic Weapons:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/543-%E3%83%AC%E3%83%AA%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%81%A8%E3%83%9F%E3%82%B7%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%81%AE%E5%BC%B7%E5%8C%96%E3%82%92%EF%BC%81?p=1948&viewfull=1#post1948

[Unctgtg]

Done. Had to recreate thread after noticing the specific format the community relations members are looking for as far as tags. The game is really developing well, just a few areas like this that needs to be given attention. Hope something good comes out of this.

Where did you put it

[Kiba]

Where did you put it

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/1152-dev100x-Relic-amp-Mythic-Weapon-Adjustments

The forum mod mentioned to just put in forums related to the topic, so this was the only suggestion/feedback I found in hope they don't overlook this.

[Tamarsamar]

You do realize that the forum you posted that in is supposed to be only for threads about the forums themselves, right?

This forum would be the most appropriate one for such a thread, and since this thread already exists, then . . .

[Kiba]

You do realize that the forum you posted that in is supposed to be only for threads about the forums themselves, right?

This forum would be the most appropriate one for such a thread, and since this thread already exists, then . . .
Yeah I was quite confused when asked to post in suggestions and that was the closest I can find ^^; either way looks like for both NA and JP the topic is being addressed so just gotta cross fingers.

[Alhanelem]

Saw a thing about tags earlier in the topic. Remember you can add tags to link topics together. Not just the [Dev####] tags that the staff are using, but your own tags as well. Every person can add up to 2 tags. (Added some to this thread)

[Unctgtg]

I believe their real solution is this Dynamis update: Make Relics easier to get instead of making them more powerful.

R u crazy. Everyone should not have these

[Catsby]

R u crazy. Everyone should not have these

Everyone should have a shot at whatever they want. It's a game.

[Fetus]

Everyone should have a shot at whatever they want. It's a game.

This. Quit thinking you're something special. It is just a game.

[Kiba]

Not trying to defend, but I think what Unctgtg meant was relics weapons should not be be attained through easy means. Like empyrean weapons relics should still be attained through time, effort, and dedication which is perfectly reasonable on what it takes to acquire the top tier weapons in the game. If everyone has a relic where would there be a sense of accomplishment and competition. So point comes down everyone should have the opportunity and reasonable means to build a relic weapon just like how successful empyrean weapons became. Yes this is a game, a game which challenge is a factor that keeps us playing.

[Rambus]

I really think relics should be "hardest" or most "time consuming" even at 75 mythics took too much when compared to relics. When you compare the money spent and the quests mythics are harder to get then relics and that shouldn't be. When mythics came out didn't they say mythics where suppose to be more quest based, second best to relics? They take too much money to be quest based (120-150 mil is more then most relics) and for some jobs i think normal magain weapons can out do them. I still want to know why they have a MAB on weapons for casting damage jobs where at 75 the elemental staffs out did them.

Empyreans are nice, to bridge the have and the have nots. To say relics should be easier to get and have them underperform Empyreans is wrong to me. There is no point in saying that or doing that expect to laugh at people that spent so much time getting a relic.

[Crolion]

ive never seen suck a butthurt DRK in my life wow, for starters apocs WS was never a strong one to start with didn't have insane numbers on it at all. it changed the way DRK was played, the bonus of it to me is insane i still think outside abbys it will be a strong weapon way stronger then most emps (outside abbys) i dont see why u cry so much and threaten to leave if ur so hurt by it then why havent u left yet? yes i do understand the insane amount of time and effort that goes in to a relic hell its still a goal of mine to get a apoc cause ive wanted one since they first came out but never had the time or gils to invest into a relic. do i find it fair that emps over power relics well ya, do u really think there gonna make a new form of a relic and make it weak? seriously now what u own is a true respectable piece in my eyes but its 2011 dude grow up and realise that better stuff is always gonna come. suprised u aint crying about AF3 and other gears pwning out King gear and salvage gear either. they game is taking a really good turn for the casual player i like what SEs doing.

[Dazusu]

I believe their real solution is this Dynamis update: Make Relics easier to get instead of making them more powerful.

Stop posting.

[Catsby]

Stop posting.

But that is the solution. Yes relic and mythic weapons should get a boost in power but claiming that a single set of weapons should be the best of the best and should be extremely hard to get is just silly. That's the mentality the devs were working with years ago and a fat lot of good it did them then.

[Dazusu]

But that is the solution. Yes relic and mythic weapons should get a boost in power but claiming that a single set of weapons should be the best of the best and should be extremely hard to get is just silly. That's the mentality the devs were working with years ago and a fat lot of good it did them then.

Yeah, a fat lot of good it did them - one of the best MMOs and most consistent player bases that didn't have to make its self a clone of another well known MMO to get anywhere; didn't do much at all for them, did it?

Now it is making its self a clone of another well known MMO, we've seen two mass server merges within the past 12 months, people must be dropping out like flys. Fat lot of good it did them.

I know I for one am not asking that Relics or Mythics be made the ultimate weapons again - but for them to not be on par with weapons which can be obtained in a week or so is definitely not going to do them any favours.

[Lilbersty]

I agree with the going back and tweaking relic weapons, but i also suggest that they should add new weapons for jobs such as Blu, Pup, Dnc, Cor, and Sch, as they do not have one.

[Miiyo]

People started dropping like flies because level 75 was very limited. There was no diversity in what anyone was doing. There was a set path for "best" Whm(meaning all jobs but using whm for ex). There were no optional gear. To be a good whm you have to have this ONE set of gear. Why continue to level and play when everything you wanted to strive for can just be found in every other 75 whm on the server? No one wants to be a clone, it's boring. People want the ability to customize and make the char feel like their own. Their own "version of a whm." All SE has done to accomadate this has been great. It was just a little too late.

[xbobx]

What about us that have no relics and have mythics that are meh in most cases. but yes I find it sad that Myself as a pup can do more dmg with my pummel then most jobs can. And I am only part of my damage.

but not going to complain about that, but it is sad.

[Alhanelem]

I agree with the going back and tweaking relic weapons, but i also suggest that they should add new weapons for jobs such as Blu, Pup, Dnc, Cor, and Sch, as they do not have one.
It's not necessary. Every job had a mythic and empyrean. And most of those jobs save COR wouldn't want the relic.

[Lilbersty]

It's not necessary. Every job had a mythic and empyrean. And most of those jobs save COR wouldn't want the relic.

I have the empyrean sword, and my bro has the empyrean gun. Having these doesn't mean that we shouldn't be able to get a relic aswell, he would still get a gun if cor could get one and if they made a sword for blu i would probably try and get it aswell.

[Alhanelem]

Their solution to the new jobs was the mythics and empyreans. It's as simple as that.

[Tamarsamar]

Their solution to the new jobs was the mythics and empyreans. It's as simple as that.

Part of me still thinks that's kind of stupid, though, how ToAU jobs and especially WotG jobs are missing out on equipment which such a strong legacy to be receiving any sort of upgrade by popular demand. (The rest of me doesn't care . . .)

[Ellewyn]

Frankly speaking, relics were never hard to make in the first place. If you can make the gil to buy the currency then theres your relic. You can also merc your fragment and attestation as well. Relics take time in the form of gil farming. Empyreans can take time in the part of making pop sets. Not everyone has a whole bunch of people to help them do empyrean in 2 weeks, since getting it done in that timeframe is absurd unless you have at least 5-6 people helping you hold pop sets and help you kill continuously for hours. I would say the avg. time for making an empyrean (if you are fairly dedicated) is about 2 months. You can do a relic in the same amount of time if you farm your gil in a smart way.

I don't know where the idea of empyreans all having amazing dmg over their relic counterparts comes from. The empyrean scythe from what I hear is garbage. The polearm (which I personally have) averages about 1600-2000dmg in abyssea AND outside. Its excellent DPS, but WS dmg is not that great. The ONLY empyrean weapons that are amazing (broken) dmg are the great axe, h2h, bow or gun (I forget which), and sword (in comparison with excal), and ochain. That is not every empyrean weapon.

So sick of the QQ over relics being useless/underpowered/too time consuming/not time consuming enough/not hard enough/etc etc etc.

[Alhanelem]

They generally do not change jobs on equipment after adding it. It has happened on a few rare occasions but in at least one case was the result of a bug.

Adding new weapons would mean changing dynamis around (up until now, I would have thought that was taboo), e.g. adding new NMs for the attestations and the weapon fragments, which would have had an impact on those areas (at the time, at least) because the monster setups in dynamis are (will be until the update) fixed, e.g. the same mobs in the same places every time. They would have had to be extremely careful not to do anything that would affect monster placement because that would potentially affect strategy for the areas where they were changed..

[Michaeluk]

Relics do need fixing, certain people saying the relic users are just q.q are the same people without a relic. Some people maybe did farm the money for a relic in 3 months but most took a lot longer. I myself just helped someone from my linkshell farm a Ukon this week and it took 5 days.

Relics or mythics should be at the top closey followed by emps third.

[Rambus]

If a relic type weapon was made to be the best, each job should have one. I agree with adding a relic type weapon for SCH, COR, BLU and DNC. I am doing the empyrean sword because that is a blu's "relic", the mythic from what i remember sucks though that was 75 , not sure what magain changed at this point.

I would most likey not get a blu relic if it comes out, and just settle for my empyrean. It would be nice to see that in the game for dedicated players able to get them.

About the QQ DRK. I do not understand why you are being hard on him. DRK has been pushed around for a while now, same with ther relic weapon. They are not much different then PLD is at the moment. Both PLD and DRK are more LOL then pup is no matter how you are geared. PLD and DRK are only useful in abyssea if they have empyrean weapons, that is really not fair and no job should be like that.


Relics do need fixing, certain people saying the relic users are just q.q are the same people without a relic.

I have to agree with this, like i said ealier there is no reason to say "relics are old and therefor should be weaker then newer weapons" only reason to say such things is try to make fun of relic users. I also see it as an attmpet to make relics sound like they are easier to get as well. In a way relics are easy if you compare it to mythics, but I blame SE for making mythics too hard, They said it would of been more quest based then anything. that is not true at this point and was not true at 75 ether. Mythics are not just quest based because not only do you have to spend time for the extra quests but costs you the same amount as most relics. (same as some, higher them some, less then the most costly ones). relics on my server atm range around 120-170 M and mythics are 120 -150 M

[Alhanelem]

If a relic type weapon was made to be the bestWell, not anymore. :p

[Catsby]

Part of me thinks the original intention of relics and the mentality behind them left with the addition of more accessible content like ToAU, WoG and abyssea.

Another part of me thinks relics were introduced as some kind of practical joke to see what players would do to get them. Kind of like a study on people in really harsh conditions for something they need but for entertainment. And the joke kept going once a second and third set of ultimate weapons were added.

I would bet on relics and mythics getting a boost next update or sometime soon though. There's a substantial amount of complaints about it and development seems to be focusing on dynamis.

Now if only we could convince the devs to make t4 znm trophies 100% and fix assault.

[Arcon]

Adding new relic weapons most certainly won't happen. Mythics are job-specific (one for each job), Relics and Empyreans are type-specific (one for each weapon type). And since they didn't introduce any new weapon types with those jobs, i.e. there's already a relic weapon for each type, there's no reasoning behind adding more. If anything, they would add BLU to Excalibur, SCH to Claustrum, etc. And they have added new jobs on a lot of gear before, almost every weapon or piece of armor features one of the new jobs. Although at this point it might be a bit late, but it's still imaginable.

[Bubian]

I support the OP. SE pls fix relics.

[hollowsgrief]

I agree that people who put years of their life into getting a relic weapon should get something to show for it, I also agree with Karumac; relic weapons should be much much easier to obtain, spending two years+ to get just a single item is ridiculous. However, I do not believe that relic weapons should be the outright most powerful weapons in the game, that is like saying you want artifact armor to be better than emphy armor, relic weapons should rival emphy weapons but not surpass them.

[Alkalinehoe]

With the new direction SE seems to be going with Dynamis now, I am getting the impression that they are giving up on Relics, or at least, not surpass empryeans entirely. It's going to be easier than ever to obtain one now and at a much faster rate, no reason to keep them godly (as if most relics at 75 were godly... few were just good improvements and Apoc was the only really good one)

[Alhanelem]

If they were giving up on relics, they wouldn't have made upgrade trials for them.

[Alkalinehoe]

If they were giving up on relics, they wouldn't have made upgrade trials for them.
I meant that they were giving up on making Relics a substantial advantage over empryeans, not making them obsolete allt ogether.

[Tamarsamar]

In response to hollowsgrief, the Empyrean Weapon Skills are most of the reason that most Empyrean Weapons (and, quite absurdly, most of their Walk of Echoes counterparts) outperform Relic Weapons. In other words, if your Empyrean Weapon Skill sucks, then in all likelihood, so does your Empyrean Weapon. Because of this, there is a shining exception to the rule of Empyrean superiority, and that's for Mjollnir still being the best damage-dealing Club in the game. Which is great for the melee White Mages that got it! But hardly consoling for everybody else.

(Strictly speaking this also means that the Hvergelmir is even worse than the Claustrum . . . but at least the former isn't as much of a pain to get.)

[Cupofnoodles]

its going to be hard to beat the BST -pdt and the +peteva axes unless they do something drastic and combine the two axes abilities. Also with 2 of each axe and depending on which pet you use, like sheep pet for -pdt and dipper for +peteva, you can get "ok" gear and have -100 pdt and on the other set have +100 peteva

[Rambus]

I think some relics need to be fixed so they are for casters Claustrum is... well... useless for the most part.

this is the other thing relics need balance between eachother as well. like all the good ones use a ton of bronze , and thus why people sell that currecy for so much more.

I think each relic sould be best for that job. some relic ws suck even at 75.
at 75 your still using asuran firsts not final heaven, dancing edge/ evisceration, i guess mercy stroke was used situinally, penta thrust not geirskogul and so on.

I do not see the point of making relics easier to get when you have mythics and empyrean weapons. Let the hard core gamers something to shoot for and the have nots can get close with empyrean and mythics.

(mythics need to be tone down in how much money it requres)

mythics cost too much to be quest based

[radicaldreamer]

Not all empyrean weapons are easier to get than relics. And actually relics should be easier pretty soon, seeing as the Dynamis system is going to be redone to where you can enter every day. Not that I would want them, since my hard-as-hell to get Almace is better than the Excalibur I dreamed of long ago. :P

[Dew]

They said they are creating a new set of the most powerful weapons in the game, aka Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons at Lv.99. It won't be just one set of ether Empyreans, Relics, or Mythics. Most likely it will be all three sets. Never did they say they were making Relics alone the most powerful weapons.

[Rambus]

They said they are creating a new set of the most powerful weapons in the game, aka Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons at Lv.99. It won't be just one set of ether Empyreans, Relics, or Mythics. Most likely it will be all three sets. Never did they say they were making Relics alone the most powerful weapons.

They said when they added mythics that mythics where intended to be second best to relics and be quest based. I really don't know about empyreans, those came to a shock to me

[Rawr]

Just some random ideas.

Relic weapon
1) remove aftermath.
2) remove attack or accuracy bonus.
3) remove 5% chance of doing double or triple damage.
5) the lv require to equip relic should be 75 instead of scaling with magian quests.
6) ws modifier 3.0 should scale with character lv. Each Lv after 75 will give you addition of 0.1
lv99 ws modifier will be 5.4
7) when doing any type of damage with relic weapon, an additional percentage of damage will be added.
It will also scale with character lv.
@Lv75 additional damage is +10%
@Lv99 additional damage is +34% (including magic damage and pet damage).
8) magian quest will increase the D base of the weapon.
9) every job should be able to use at least 1 relic weapon.

Mystic weapon :
1) all 3 types of aftermath effect will be trigger on mystic ws.
2) aftermath effect will scale with character lv.
3) magian quest will increase the D base of the weapon and potency of the jt/ja.
4) ws damage should scale with character lv.

[Rambus]

that sounds like a nurf but idoono melee formulas well to say
the 90 version already has more ws power

[Runespider]

I'm hoping that the idea with Empy weapons being so powereful was to make people do them and that now that abyssea is over and people have beeing working on empy weapons they will now slowly start boosting relics more to put them back at the top again. As an MMO you want to constantly keep players working on things and putting relics back at the top makes mroe sense than keeping empy weapons which are very east to get at the top.

[Riko]

When you look at most Empyrean weapons they look as if they've been taken from some other game and dropped into FFXI. In my opinion most of them don't fit in with FFXIs style like Relics and Mythics do. If you look at the group pictures of Relics, Mythics and Empyreans on wiki you can see the difference, they look flashy but something's a little off. Relics and Mythics not only look better designed for FFXI, but have statistical benefits unique to their own weapon type, not just "Occasionally deals double damage." on them all; although they do have that hidden effect. Relics and Mythics can dramatically change how you play a job, Empyreans can dramatically change your damage output for that job and that's about it.

Good examples of job changing weapons would be:

Yagrush - Permanent AoE on all -na spells including Erase is unbelievably helpful at making you more efficient on White Mage.

Laevateinn - The Lv.90 version of this has +50 MAB, that's a jump of +10 MAB every 5 levels from Lv.75. While this might still be out done by Magian trial staves, it's still only Lv.90 and I suspect at Lv.95~99 this will have at least +70 MAB and will be the best staff for Black Mage, not only dealing the most damage but saving inventory space.

Carnwenhan and Gjallarhorn - Increased song duration can free up a lot of time for a Bard to help support in other ways such as curing and removing status effects. This can take a lot of stress off of a White Mage or whoever you have healing at the time. Also paired with Gjallarhorn, you can extend the duration at Lv.90 to around 5 minutes or more without the help of Troubadour. Of course Gjallarhorn, before everyone was brainwashed by Abysseas' massive MP Boosts and Refresh Atmas was essential at keeping your White Mage and other mages MP pools filled over long duration battles. Let's just hope fights like we've had at Lv.75 are back at Lv.99, very preferably outside of Abyssea.

Apocalypse - Probably the best Aftermath any Melee could wish for, HP drain and Haste. The weapon skill Catastrophe itself drains HP from the target based on damage dealt, which at Lv.90 gets at least a +25% damage boost. This for Dark Knight makes it possible to stay alive easily and Dark Knight can also become a possible "Tanking" option, even when using the Job Ability Souleater. Of course the HP drain from Catastrophe and its Aftermath healing yourself for 1000 HP+ over a few seconds relieves a lot of stress on a White Mage or again whoever is curing at the time.

Annihilator - Coronach might not be the most powerful weapon skill at the moment for Ranger but it's aftermath is very helpful, even at dealing more damage. The weapon skill itself has reduced enmity to the equivalent of having fired a single shot instead of blasting out 1500+ damage weapon skill at the target, which you are likely to do on the Lv.90 version anyway. This makes it so a Ranger can almost continuously fire shots at the target without getting its attention, making it easier on whoever has "Hate" at the time and even less stress on other support jobs.

Also in future I think that these Empyrean weapon skills will be available to all weapons, just like Mythic weapon skills are obtainable via quests, these might be obtainable via Magian trials to come or more quests. One last thing I'd like to point out is that most Relic and Mythic weapon skills have unique animations, where as most Empyrean weapon skills are older weapon skill animations with new flashy effects.

[Dew]

Each set of weapons was created with different aspects.

Relics focus on Raw damage, Acc, Atk, Racc, Ratk, and each has a unique aftermath.
Relics have the highest base damage in all three of the sets.

Mythics focus on Job specific areas. Many of the aftermaths are simular.
Mythics have the lowest base damage of all three sets.

Empyreans focus on status modifiers. All of the aftermaths are the same.
Empyreans are in the middle base damage wise.

The problem now is that Mythic and Relic ws's have weak modifiers. The weapons bases are fine. The weapons aren't the part that would need any adjustment to even them out, it would be the ws modifiers.

Each set of weapons has a unique set of properties. Damage output isn't the only thing based on the weapons. Effects, Aftermaths, Added effects, etc also come into play.

[Denabond]

Unfortunately to most ppl in this game, damage is everything to them. This is why most Relic users are so adamant about fixing their weapons so that they are on top again. But as Dew has said, best way for SE to fix it is to make Mythic and Relic WSs better. Not just a straight up increase in damage like they did at lvl 90 since certain WSs were crap before then, and that extra 25% didn't make them do much to make ppl want to use them.

[Rambus]

I want to know why emp weapon's base is higher then mythic then..

Really like to hear what SE intends to have like relic > mythic > emp so we can start properly comment to SE how to go around doing that.

Mythics really needs the most adjusments, like some are under other weapons for some jobs + costing too much money to be quesed based.

I also do not understand why emp weapons where givin level 3 properties when mythics are suck on a level 1 and a level 2.

when mythics first came out I thought having the real mythic weapon would unlock a level 3 property for the mythic ws.

Hmm since there are new normal ws comming out and the best ws is always chainging, would it be ok to give mythics and relics access the emp ws?

lest two of the mythic issues is fixed ( having a level 3 property), then you fix the issue of having to use a weak ws ( like trueflight for the rng mythic, cor mythic, have really weak ws)
if both those ws had acess to wildfire, it would pad thier tatical vaule. (and letting the emp ws trigger aftermaths on mythics).

mythics need ths most fixing, it would be nice to see more of them due to having more vaule in combat.

relics is a bit easier to fix, pad ws damage, change aftermath effect and your gold, mythics has a lot more issues then that

[Fetus]

It's been said a dozen times over, so I'm not going to beat a dead horse (too much), but Mythics were stated to be artifacts that improved job specificity. Yagrush is a perfect example. They're not meant to, nor were they ever intended, to be supreme damage-dealing weapons. The only thing that's completely bogus about Mythics is that they're impossible to get. Nobody does Nyzule Isle, ZNM, Einherjar or Salvage anymore with any frequency. You couldn't pay people to help you with that crap for as long as it would take to finish a Mythic. SE did an exemplary job of killing that off indefinitely with the introduction of Abyssea. If anyone is to "fix" Mythics, the requirements to obtain them must first be examined and reworked to fit in the current metagame. The weapons themselves are fine. If you built a Mythic to deal damage only, you made a serious mistake. Dealing tremendous damage is solely the purview of Empyreans. It should also be within the range of Relic weapons, but until notable adjustments are made, Relics will just be squatting on middle ground in terms of usefulness and overall damage capability.

[Cursed]

I'll tell you one thing; If they make relics more attainable they lose any credibility they had with me, and many other loyal players.
I bit my tongue when after 4 years of grinding 5 jobs to 75 they made it easier to exp. All that time and effort I spent to get ahead and the status I attained inside the community could now be replicated with less than half the effort.

I bit my tongue when they released toAU tp burns and made the mobs a lot easier to tank and kill. All those years of actually learning party dynamics, and being forced to adapt to different types of mobs, out the window. WS>WS>SC>MB dynamics disappeared forever.

I bit my tongue when they made ridiculously easy to level in Abyssea, and released gear that made everything I had spent the previous decade attaining worthless.

The final nail in the coffer is them making the most prestigious class of weapons in a game obsolete, and then pissing on them and all the hard work that went into attaining them by furthering the insult by making them easy to obtain.

Relics, especially the early ones, represent so much more than just a weapon.
No true FFXI player will ever regard empyreans as anything close in novelty or sentiment to relics.
SE is parting ways with the player base that has kept this game floating for so long, in hopes of appealing to a more casual market player base.

I for one, just haven't really been trying to do anything in game since the relic blows started coming. I just don't see the point. Its not a worthy trade off in my opinion to invest in anything in game anymore. Where SE is demonstrating that everything they had previously said was out the window, and there was weight given to "normalcy" in vana'diel.

They have done the same thing with the FF series. They turned their backs on their customer base, people like me who enjoyed FF1-FF10, and bought every one of them several times over.

SE is really telling me it doesn't like me as a customer. And that our relationship is coming to an end.
Good luck SE! you're about to see that the grass on the other side isn't any greener.

[Rambus]

I'll tell you one thing; If they make relics more attainable they lose any credibility they had with me, and many other loyal players.
I bit my tongue when after 4 years of grinding 5 jobs to 75 they made it easier to exp. All that time and effort I spent to get ahead and the status I attained inside the community could now be replicated with less than half the effort.

I bit my tongue when they released toAU tp burns and made the mobs a lot easier to tank and kill. All those years of actually learning party dynamics, and being forced to adapt to different types of mobs, out the window. WS>WS>SC>MB dynamics disappeared forever.

I bit my tongue when they made ridiculously easy to level in Abyssea, and released gear that made everything I had spent the previous decade attaining worthless.

The final nail in the coffer is them making the most prestigious class of weapons in a game obsolete, and then pissing on them and all the hard work that went into attaining them by furthering the insult by making them easy to obtain.

Relics, especially the early ones, represent so much more than just a weapon.
No true FFXI player will ever regard empyreans as anything close in novelty or sentiment to relics.
SE is parting ways with the player base that has kept this game floating for so long, in hopes of appealing to a more casual market player base.

I for one, just haven't really been trying to do anything in game since the relic blows started coming. I just don't see the point. Its not a worthy trade off in my opinion to invest in anything in game anymore. Where SE is demonstrating that everything they had previously said was out the window, and there was weight given to "normalcy" in vana'diel.

They have done the same thing with the FF series. They turned their backs on their customer base, people like me who enjoyed FF1-FF10, and bought every one of them several times over.

SE is really telling me it doesn't like me as a customer. And that our relationship is coming to an end.
Good luck SE! you're about to see that the grass on the other side isn't any greener.

stick with it! like i said before I think emp weapons where a mistake, its not the first time i seen shortsidness in making gear ( like any fourm of MAB on weapons, mythic staffs, PW staff)

they make all these random atma buffs and did not realise RR + emp weapon > sick.

here is something in the other thread:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/700-lolRelic-Weapon-SE-what-have-you-done/page9

point is I do not understand why mythics where made like they where ( SE said relic > mythic > other weapons when they came out) to have a lot of mythics underperform other weapons.

SE has been short sided on this issue for a while, and people are now even more mad about it because of emp weapons now.

The prices of currecy even reflects SE being short sided, even back when relics where the only thing. not all relics where "good". The "good" ones that where done a lot more vs others took a lot of bronze so people sold that type a lot higher then the rest. sandy is not hard, in fact I would call it the easiest one to do.

weapons that are most heavy in bronze ( first weapon on the list takes the most)
Shield (125-30)
Bow(119-30)
club (105-30)
GS (104-30)
sword (104-30)
GKT (103-30)
Gun (62)
staff (62)
Katana (61)
Polorm (61)
horn (60)
great axe (60)

FFXI AH lists:

515 shields
357 scythe
346 GKT
279 dagger
243 horn
148 GA
147 bow
137 sword
95 h2h
92 gun
72 Katana
49 polarm
20 GS
13 club
11 axe
10 staff

total spent:
13 551 300 byne
18 352 700 silver
13 403 800 shell

anyone see a problem with this? there is a ton of silver being spent because the "better" relics eat a lot of them sheild *not so much now i understand that relic shield is not good now*, bow, gun, GKT, horn are the ones that are seen as good out of them, then you can pair up bow/GKT, sword/sheild on one job that makes it even worse if someone is really hard core on those jobs. those 2 pairings of weapons, those 4 all requre gold pieces.

[Cursed]

stick with it! like i said before I think emp weapons where a mistake, its not the first time i seen shortsidness in making gear ( like any fourm of MAB on weapons, mythic staffs, PW staff)

they make all these random atma buffs and did not realise RR + emp weapon > sick.

here is something in the other thread:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/700-lolRelic-Weapon-SE-what-have-you-done/page9

point is I do not understand why mythics where made like they where ( SE said relic > mythic > other weapons when they came out) to have a lot of mythics underperform other weapons.

SE has been short sided on this issue for a while, and people are now even more mad about it because of emp weapons now.

The prices of currecy even reflects SE being short sided, even back when relics where the only thing. not all relics where "good". The "good" ones that where done a lot more vs others took a lot of bronze so people sold that type a lot higher then the rest. sandy is not hard, in fact I would call it the easiest one to do.

weapons that are most heavy in bronze ( first weapon on the list takes the most)
Shield (125-30)
Bow(119-30)
club (105-30)
GS (104-30)
sword (104-30)
GKT (103-30)
Gun (62)
staff (62)
Katana (61)
Polorm (61)
horn (60)
great axe (60)

FFXI AH lists:

515 shields
357 scythe
346 GKT
279 dagger
243 horn
148 GA
147 bow
137 sword
95 h2h
92 gun
72 Katana
49 polarm
20 GS
13 club
11 axe
10 staff

total spent:
13 551 300 byne
18 352 700 silver
13 403 800 shell

anyone see a problem with this? there is a ton of silver being spent because the "better" relics eat a lot of them sheild *not so much now i understand that relic shield is not good now*, bow, gun, GKT, horn are the ones that are seen as good out of them, then you can pair up bow/GKT, sword/sheild on one job that makes it even worse if someone is really hard core on those jobs. those 2 pairings of weapons, those 4 all requre gold pieces.

515 shields
in other words "515 really pissed off PLDs"

[Rambus]

515 shields
in other words "515 really pissed off PLDs"

lol ya =/

I'm sure some quit, some new ones where made, but the overall trend is the same, the relic weapons that are usually picked are ones that are high cost in bronze (which can reflect that each weapon is not truly best for every class like the staff) even back at 75 when relics was the only thing. SE said themselves they really do not consider complaints about an issue unless a lot of people speak up about it (statement SE made when asked about the shortcomings on SMN)
So relics where never fixed.

Then came mythic, and yet again not many cared to step up and say "hey most of these weapons suck"

Now that emp weapons are out people really start to care. The imbalances are now very glaring with those weapons out and it is time to fix them.
I'm pretty sure SE does not know, they throw random stats on stuff a lot without though testing. (they had a lot of time to balance relics among themselves and make them appropriate for the jobs, same with mythic)

[Musahashi]

I still don't get why people are asking these questions now. There is a lot more to come in the next few years of FFXI, and it's going to keep moving further from the original concept of the FF franchise. I'm going to put my money on the next idea, Enix will probably bring something new to the board after the 90 cap has been lifted, and it will probably be better than Emp or Relic, and most likely just as "easy" to get.

Try not to think of what is currently bad in the current game, but how it's going to get worse, lets try to stop them making the game worse, before they actually do. Remeber, prevention is better than cure, and we all know Enix will never fix this game and bring into the glory it once had.

[Arcalimo]

i don't support make relic weapons the best again, and more now that dynamis is going to be modified, who knows if they will be accesible for everyone in a near future.
Imo, a good solution would be to make relic and empyrean ws accesible with any weapons (like mythic ws are) with any trial or something, and just make relic's, empyrean's and mythic's aftermaths work with any ws, just for having the weapon equiped, make the weapons be unique just by their aftermaths, in a way that all 3 do the same amount of damage in comparation with the others but they give a unique buff that makes them usefull dependig on the situation.
That way if they were supposed to be the legendary weapons, they will still be, but that doesn't mean that they should be better than other legendary weapons and if you really like a job you will work to have all 3 and use one or another depending on the situation.

[Michaeluk]

i don't support make relic weapons the best again, and more now that dynamis is going to be modified, who knows if they will be accesible for everyone in a near future.
Imo, a good solution would be to make relic and empyrean ws accesible with any weapons (like mythic ws are) with any trial or something, and just make relic's, empyrean's and mythic's aftermaths work with any ws, just for having the weapon equiped, make the weapons be unique just by their aftermaths, in a way that all 3 do the same amount of damage in comparation with the others but they give a unique buff that makes them usefull dependig on the situation.
That way if they were supposed to be the legendary weapons, they will still be, but that doesn't mean that they should be better than other legendary weapons and if you really like a job you will work to have all 3 and use one or another depending on the situation.

Wow terrible idea. Suck less. Another no hoper who hasn't put the time or effort into getting a relic or mythic.

[Rambus]

Wow terrible idea. Suck less. Another no hoper who hasn't put the time or effort into getting a relic or mythic.

I did state a similar idea though it was more of a let relics and mythics access the emp ws and allow those ws trigger the aftereffect as well.

It would fix mythics needing a level 3 ws, not using bad ws ( most mythics anyway drakesbane is nice).

for the most part the D on weapons is washy, some its relic > mythic > emp, some its relic=mythic> emp some its relic>emp> mythic

I really think SE forgot about mythics and thier issues =/

like I said before mythics need the most boosting, people don't do them as is, emps made that situation worse.

should be mroe then club and SMM staff

[Arcalimo]

Wow terrible idea. Suck less. Another no hoper who hasn't put the time or effort into getting a relic or mythic.

Yeah, because a relic/mythic would be nice to my rdm or my blm that are my main jobs, try with another card man.
If you had put the "time" and "effort" into getting a relic im sorry for you, you wasted 200M in a piece of junk and now you have to come cry here.
And i wouldn't call it "time" and "effort" to just buying gil and buy the currency and pay a ls for the kills, that or just use some ppl to work for your relic to later give them nothing in exchange, im sorry but im not that selfish and im glad that my jobs don't need a relic to be cool.
If you don't like a idea say so but dont come here flaming people, discuss or propose another thing or stfu.

Actually by doing aftermath work with other weaponskills you could use the new wss and still benefit from your relic, or you want them to add new stuff to just keep using old ws and abilities? that's not how stuff has to work, adding new content to just stick with old content is retarded

[Michaeluk]

Yeah, because a relic/mythic would be nice to my rdm or my blm that are my main jobs, try with another card man.
If you had put the "time" and "effort" into getting a relic im sorry for you, you wasted 200M in a piece of junk and now you have to come cry here.
And i wouldn't call it "time" and "effort" to just buying gil and buy the currency and pay a ls for the kills, that or just use some ppl to work for your relic to later give them nothing in exchange, im sorry but im not that selfish and im glad that my jobs don't need a relic to be cool.
If you don't like a idea say so but dont come here flaming people, discuss or propose another thing or stfu.

Actually by doing aftermath work with other weaponskills you could use the new wss and still benefit from your relic, or you want them to add new stuff to just keep using old ws and abilities? that's not how stuff has to work, adding new content to just stick with old content is retarded

First of you state you don't have a job to use a relic well why are you even in this topic posting ?

If you think everyone bought gil to get a relic then you are a complete moron and maybe you shouldn't judge people by your own gil buying standards.

Of course what you people seem to forget the ones who seem to be hateing on relics now is that to get a relic people need to farm the gil to get the currency, get all the dynamis drops and then the trials when they now eventually get the base 75 weapon. This is a lot more work then spamming some very easy nms for 1-2days to get a empy. The dynamis part of the trial 85-90 itself takes longer to do than make a empy.

P.s wank face i've got a relic and a emp, and im telling you that the relic should be the better weapon at 99, come back when you have spent time working on a relic until then you really can't judge, so you kindly stfu sir.

[Unctgtg]

Yeah, because a relic/mythic would be nice to my rdm or my blm that are my main jobs, try with another card man.
If you had put the "time" and "effort" into getting a relic im sorry for you, you wasted 200M in a piece of junk and now you have to come cry here.
And i wouldn't call it "time" and "effort" to just buying gil and buy the currency and pay a ls for the kills, that or just use some ppl to work for your relic to later give them nothing in exchange, im sorry but im not that selfish and im glad that my jobs don't need a relic to be cool.
If you don't like a idea say so but dont come here flaming people, discuss or propose another thing or stfu.

Actually by doing aftermath work with other weaponskills you could use the new wss and still benefit from your relic, or you want them to add new stuff to just keep using old ws and abilities? that's not how stuff has to work, adding new content to just stick with old content is retarded

You really don't get it do you.

In other news, glad to see so many agree. Come on SE fix them.

[Arcalimo]

no, you are the ones that don't get it, the game advanced and you gotta accept it.
And you know whats the funny part of it?
That a big portion of relic holders, like [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]
Now SE slaped em in the face and a lot of those "noobs" can slap a relic holder in the face with just a woe +1 weapon and make you cry and complain.
Looks like the karma came around :)
And yes, its clear that they should enhance them(woe shouldnt beat them) but no way to make them the best weapons in game again, the new content should be better than the old content as is normal, or were you wearing af1 at 75 because it was the best at 60?
Finally SE noticed that wasn't fair for the mayority of player to been months working for someone and don't get something in exchange, now in that time you can get the best weapon in game for everyone that was helping.
Maybe they made it too easy(mnk+whm > all), but the idea of a group of 4-6 players being able to clear all the stuff isn't bad at all.
The times of some e-peen players taking advantage of others to get they shit is over, now you can just gather with your close friends and get your shit w/o having to deal with some morons, and that is what should have been done long ago.
Stop complaining about your old outdated gear and weapons, they are going to be easier to get after the update, even then, they are easy to get now that 3 ppl can overkill a dynanis, and dont tell me that kill 5000 easy prey mobs is harder and less time consuming than kill 75 apademak for example, because you can solo the 5000 mobs w/o competition and you need help for apademak, plus its overcamped. So yeah Empyrean > Relic
You get it now? this is a MMO, and MMOs change over time, if you dont like you know where the door its, but i really doubt that anyone that had enought adiction to work for a relic leaves the game instead of getting a empyrean, so don't put false words of people in your mouth, as no one is gonna quit for this.

[Cream_Soda]

So many delicious tears gathered in one spot.

[Michaeluk]

no, you are the ones that don't get it, the game advanced and you gotta accept it.
And you know whats the funny part of it?
That a big portion of relic holders, like Michaeluk, are just e-peens that thought they were better than anyone and others players suck or are noobs.
Now SE slaped em in the face and a lot of those "noobs" can slap a relic holder in the face with just a woe +1 weapon and make you cry and complain.
Looks like the karma came around :)
And yes, its clear that they should enhance them(woe shouldnt beat them) but no way to make them the best weapons in game again, the new content should be better than the old content as is normal, or were you wearing af1 at 75 because it was the best at 60?
Finally SE noticed that wasn't fair for the mayority of player to been months working for someone and don't get something in exchange, now in that time you can get the best weapon in game for everyone that was helping.
Maybe they made it too easy(mnk+whm > all), but the idea of a group of 4-6 players being able to clear all the stuff isn't bad at all.
The times of some e-peen players taking advantage of others to get they shit is over, now you can just gather with your close friends and get your shit w/o having to deal with some morons, and that is what should have been done long ago.
Stop complaining about your old outdated gear and weapons, they are going to be easier to get after the update, even then, they are easy to get now that 3 ppl can overkill a dynanis, and dont tell me that kill 5000 easy prey mobs is harder and less time consuming than kill 75 apademak for example, because you can solo the 5000 mobs w/o competition and you need help for apademak, plus its overcamped. So yeah Empyrean > Relic
You get it now? this is a MMO, and MMOs change over time, if you dont like you know where the door its, but i really doubt that anyone that had enought adiction to work for a relic leaves the game instead of getting a empyrean, so don't put false words of people in your mouth, as no one is gonna quit for this.

Wow you are beyond retarded. Guess you missed the point were i said i own a empy weapon aswell. I still stick by what i said relics should outclass the much easier weapon to get.

No point even going any further with you.

[Rambus]

no, you are the ones that don't get it, the game advanced and you gotta accept it.
And you know whats the funny part of it?
That a big portion of relic holders, like [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]
Now SE slaped em in the face and a lot of those "noobs" can slap a relic holder in the face with just a woe +1 weapon and make you cry and complain.
Looks like the karma came around :)
And yes, its clear that they should enhance them(woe shouldnt beat them) but no way to make them the best weapons in game again, the new content should be better than the old content as is normal, or were you wearing af1 at 75 because it was the best at 60?
Finally SE noticed that wasn't fair for the mayority of player to been months working for someone and don't get something in exchange, now in that time you can get the best weapon in game for everyone that was helping.
Maybe they made it too easy(mnk+whm > all), but the idea of a group of 4-6 players being able to clear all the stuff isn't bad at all.
The times of some e-peen players taking advantage of others to get they shit is over, now you can just gather with your close friends and get your shit w/o having to deal with some morons, and that is what should have been done long ago.
Stop complaining about your old outdated gear and weapons, they are going to be easier to get after the update, even then, they are easy to get now that 3 ppl can overkill a dynanis, and dont tell me that kill 5000 easy prey mobs is harder and less time consuming than kill 75 apademak for example, because you can solo the 5000 mobs w/o competition and you need help for apademak, plus its overcamped. So yeah Empyrean > Relic
You get it now? this is a MMO, and MMOs change over time, if you dont like you know where the door its, but i really doubt that anyone that had enought adiction to work for a relic leaves the game instead of getting a empyrean, so don't put false words of people in your mouth, as no one is gonna quit for this.
Last edited by Bublex; Today at 03:28 PM. Reason: Content was edited by Moderator due to violation of Forum Guidelines.



I have no idea what you are talking about. This is the first time in 7 years SE is actually replacing stuff.
SE did not do a good job replacing elemental staffs with that PW staff, or even the 75 mythic, so how can you say new stuff = better? this is not WoW! Abyssea was the first time that they appealed to "entitlement" as well.

You said it is a good thing I am a BLM and RDM that you don't need hard to get weapons to be cool. that’s part of the problem, mythics are not appealing to all jobs, you honestly don't want to strive to a big long term goal?

Saying emps should be best is just lol, no ambition.

When I first started off I was a BLM and I was planning to get relic staff because that was my job. When I started to play other jobs and liked rng so I started to strive for bow to be my goal.

What is the logic of replacing that takes years to do? All you are doing is trying to act big in saying “lol you spent so much time for nothing”
It makes no sense to say relic and mythic weapon should be out of date other than to laugh at the people that went to got them

SE gave relics highest D on weapon so it seems SE wants relics to be best. SE has shown to make mistakes. "emp weapons" seems like a mistake of being best because atma was not factored in.

you really think SE made PW to drop a staff to underperform elemental staffs on purpose? SE made a lot of gear that makes no sence where it looks like they throw random stats on stuff and hope it works.

Emp weapons is the newest mistake of that.
90% of items SE makes are not ment to replace but to close gaps of have and have nots, SE is forced to replace stuff now since level is 90, and they would not make relic weapon trials if they had your views.

emps are fine to brige gap of have not, but outdoing relics? no

[Arcalimo]

If you read my first post i said that all 3 should be equal in terms of damage, after all they are suposed to be legendary weapons. What i do mean is that if you have to make ones strongers than others empyreans should be the strongers.
That you spend X years in to get an item is not a reason for it to last forever, or do you play just for items, actually i think we all play to have fun and spend our time, new content should be good news for everyone, and aiming for them to let relics or any 75 gear remain as the best gear is just stay in the past, by that logic AF3 shouldn't exist either? or we have to spend this time getting items that at 99 will be outperformed by augmented level 75 gear? for that we could just stick with what we had and do nothing til 99 comes in.
And ambition? if i had ambition i would be working on empyrean instead of crying in every forum about how they "nerfed" my weapon or gear, and id be happy since they gave me something better than what i had before, but no the problem is not ambition, its that people its not happy seeing that everyone can get a empyrean now easy, and before they were only a few the ones that had relic weapons, thats the problem, that people is just jelaous that most casual players can have the same gear as a dedicated player now.

[Bubian]

no, you are the ones that don't get it, the game advanced and you gotta accept it.
And you know whats the funny part of it?
That a big portion of relic holders, like [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]
Now SE slaped em in the face and a lot of those "noobs" can slap a relic holder in the face with just a woe +1 weapon and make you cry and complain.
Looks like the karma came around :)
And yes, its clear that they should enhance them(woe shouldnt beat them) but no way to make them the best weapons in game again, the new content should be better than the old content as is normal, or were you wearing af1 at 75 because it was the best at 60?
Finally SE noticed that wasn't fair for the mayority of player to been months working for someone and don't get something in exchange, now in that time you can get the best weapon in game for everyone that was helping.
Maybe they made it too easy(mnk+whm > all), but the idea of a group of 4-6 players being able to clear all the stuff isn't bad at all.
The times of some e-peen players taking advantage of others to get they shit is over, now you can just gather with your close friends and get your shit w/o having to deal with some morons, and that is what should have been done long ago.
Stop complaining about your old outdated gear and weapons, they are going to be easier to get after the update, even then, they are easy to get now that 3 ppl can overkill a dynanis, and dont tell me that kill 5000 easy prey mobs is harder and less time consuming than kill 75 apademak for example, because you can solo the 5000 mobs w/o competition and you need help for apademak, plus its overcamped. So yeah Empyrean > Relic
You get it now? this is a MMO, and MMOs change over time, if you dont like you know where the door its, but i really doubt that anyone that had enought adiction to work for a relic leaves the game instead of getting a empyrean, so don't put false words of people in your mouth, as no one is gonna quit for this.

huh? Noobs slapping a relic holder in the face wut? Clearly You have had a bad experience with some relic holder. In my experience, relic holders have always been great and goodwill ambassadors of the game. You CLEARLY and I emphasize *CLEARLY* Have NO CLUE what you are babbling about.

Relics are *rare*, and if you wanna be pimped out being a clone like everyone else wearing an emp weapon, go ahead, congratulations. FFXI is a stand alone game, stop comparing it to WOW where everyone is the same clone and leaves no one to stand out with something precious and exceptional. This isn't WOW, go play that.

[Gravionblack]

Well i think it is a matter of taste myself, There are the abyssea weapons out now and they are very nice, but to be honest i am still going to go for my relic weapon just because i want it. Even if the abyssea weapon does more dmg and is ten times better then a relic that wont change the fact that i simply want my relic. (and rambus . . . . you have my bow give it back!! =P j/k) Ranger was my main job up until i could never get help with anything , then i swapped it to ninja. I love both those jobs very much so i will be trying to get the relic weapons on both. Why do i want the relic you may ask, to me it a personal goal, same as getting the Usukane set. Is there pieces out there that are better, im sure there may be but i don't really care. The same thing with selene's bow, it took me 8hrs of camping that Nm b4 i finally got it only to turn around less then 2 weeks later to get the Seige bow. So i guess there are those of us who get armor and weapons just for the stat's and those of us who get them because the personal time and sense of accomplishment we feel after getting them. I just wanted to put this out there is all. Not saying you are one or the other Arcalimo, but just try and think of it as some of the people did it for their own reasons.

[Dazusu]

Does anyone on this page know what a paragraph is?

Can't be arsed reading wall-o-text.

SE - Fix relics.

That is all.

[LeaderofAtlantis]

There's no doubt that the original system for obtaining relic weapons was slightly broken and required a large number of people working together for months or even a year or more, for the goal of getting 1 person the best weapon (at the time) in the game. Once you have that Lv75 weapon now, the rest of it is just monotonous activity that you can do solo for the most part until the final 2 boosts which requires, once again, for you to bring together a group of people to devote their time so that just 1 person can get a weapon even stronger.

I want to see Relics return to the top tier. I don't own one yet, but the prize should equal the effort. Now, I would like to see a less exploitative method for obtaining them (which the new Dynamis system sounds like it will do a little bit), but in the end, 10+ months of work should give you a bigger reward than 2-3 weeks.

Maybe the higher levels should see an increase in the activation of the additional effect or maybe an increase in their potency as well as the potency of the weaponskill aftermaths?

[Alkimi]

Now SE slaped em in the face and a lot of those "noobs" can slap a relic holder in the face with just a woe +1 weapon and make you cry and complain.
Looks like the karma came around :)


Clearly hasn't played with 90% of people with Masamune. They're pretty much all terrible.

[chrism]

I agree they should increase relic weapon dmg.

[LeaderofAtlantis]

1 thing they could do is to add stat boosts that are aligned to the weapon skill on relic weapons. Put AGI on Gugnir to enhance Geirskogul, for example. Or they should change the modifiers for those weapon skills.

Another thing they could do - as the relic weapon is powered up, the trigger rate of the bonus damage goes up as well.

[Coldbrand]

Yeah, changing the modifier to either str/dex/vit is much better for DRG.

[Rambus]

Hmm we could say all relic ws need str and dex as mod, same with emps and mythics, but would that be too much cloning?

someone feel to rebuttle this but STR is best mod on a ws, since it enters twice in a formula, then DEX esp if it is a crt hit type

[Alderin]

Hmm we could say all relic ws need str and dex as mod, same with emps and mythics, but would that be too much cloning?

someone feel to rebuttle this but STR is best mod on a ws, since it enters twice in a formula, then DEX esp if it is a crt hit type

I don't know the math of it but Blade: Hi is quite beastly and uses AGI mod.

I just think it needs crit boosts. Eh should just link you all to the other post. There are better ideas on that one.

[Alderin]

Here is an extremely random thought and will probably get shot down in an instant.

Remember FF8 how you had to spam the square button at certain times to boost it? Or in FFX how you had 3 chances to hit the middle of the moving bar for Tidus's limit to be worth it?

Could implement something similar for relics to bypass the whole "stats only" thing. The boost would be quite substantial and would say guarentee crit hits or something similar (As if you SA'd it).

The idea is probably extremely flawed, subject to issues regarding lag, slow down the speed of the WS itself...

Think I just proved how bad an idea it was... But oh well.

[Rambus]

I don't know I thought ws could be more interactive like FF8 where you hit a button at the right time ti was crt or w/e.

but tp gain is so fast now these days and the problems you said hold true as well.

if we made all relic , mythic, emp all with crt ws with same mods would that be a bit boring?

could base the mods on jobs liek dnc, thf, nin, are like heavy in agi and dex so you can make them the mods with a bit of str.

heavy hitters like war, drk,sam would be str mainly (this is a problem with drk SE put INT more then this)

drg, mnk, could be str and dex

rng be str and agi ( like most now anyway)

BLM and SCH would be heavy with INT mods
RDM would be mind and int
SMN would be mind and int ( no idea why but they do have a good rating with these stats)
those stats would function like str does with normal melee
maybe ill give some reason for lolemp staff, or melee with mythics since all mythics have effects based on getting tp-.- =/.

BLU would use a bit of every stat of this mod

Since I am talking job specific it would be suggestions for emp ws i guess.

[Atomic_Skull]

could base the mods on jobs liek dnc, thf, nin, are like heavy in agi and dex so you can make them the mods with a bit of str.


NO!

Mercy Stroke is good because it uses a STR mod. Heca is the best DEX set for THF, but it also has even more STR than DEX. Changing Mercy Stroke to DEX or AGI would be a downgrade.

[Unctgtg]

Yes but wouldn't u like another 50% of damage added on Atomic? or 100%

[Olor]

This. Quit thinking you're something special. It is just a game.


Yeah, I am really tired of hearing this elitist whine-fest. For serious. Boo-hoo, I deserve to be the best because I got a relic weapon 5 years ago. Woe is me! Boooo-hoo!

You got to be the best for years with that weapon - now if you want to continue to be the best you need to work hard again. Cry me a river. Asking SE to upgrade your weapon so you can feel superior to other players without doing any work is crap as far as I am concerned.

[Catsby]

Yeah, I am really tired of hearing this elitist whine-fest. For serious. Boo-hoo, I deserve to be the best because I got a relic weapon 5 years ago. Woe is me! Boooo-hoo!

You got to be the best for years with that weapon - now if you want to continue to be the best you need to work hard again. Cry me a river. Asking SE to upgrade your weapon so you can feel superior to other players without doing any work is crap as far as I am concerned.


Ok. That's not really fair since upgrade systems in this game have been and still are nightmarish when they don't need to be. As we know there are magian trials for relic weapons to make them "better" but the trials (much like all weapon magian trials) feel like meaningless busywork. This was especially true for relics and mythics since they involved getting killshots with the weapon's inherit weaponskill... lots of killshots, like thousands and thousands. Yes the numbers were altered to make it less of a brainmelting chore but the real problem is still there and nobody seems to realize it.

Magian trials like nearly all the systems of the game need drastic revisions. Almost every trial is so boring and meaningless that it does the exact opposite of what it should to encourage you to continue or take on a new one. I know people who have actually quit the game since there are no reasonable ways for them to complete trials and no way to get a comparable item aside from ToM. This is because the required monster grinding can often mean skipping linkshell events or ditching friends to kill monsters during an in game window that wont wait for you.

Then there is how the trials themselves progress. For some reason it's not enough that you need to complete another trial but that trial gets longer and more depressing. This is trend that originally existed with relic weapons and only became worse as the game expanded on upgrading systems. Take the relic system for example, I can't speak with certainty but it seems like the intent of all the upgrade system was to prevent a ton of people from trying to upgrade weapons are disrupting the game with a ton of powerful weapons (silly I know since this is a game we are talking about). This was done by making the dynamis currency required with each subsequent trial higher in an exponential way. That makes sense and all but if you look at the weapon itself per trial it's hardly worth that drastically increased effort. I'm willing to bet real world anything that if each relic upgrade yielded a useful weapon that got better and better as you progressed the incentive to create new weapons would have soaked up so much currency that final form relics would be extremely rare and the system would have lead to better upgrade systems later on (like salvage, evolith and magian).

Unfortunately it didn't and now we have horror stories about 1/200 macha's coats, people cock-blocking each other at various trigger NMs in abyssea and countless forum threads like this around the internet because the process for obtaining something really nice was something along the lines of punishment.

Hopefully, HOPEFULLY the coming adjustments to dynamis will make the crusty old event more engaging, fun and relevant like abyssea. And with any luck it will lead to more revisions to other old events like salvage and magian trials.

Should relics and mythics be more powerful? yes. Should relic and mythic owners be spamming forums about it? no. If anything all the people that are upset that their weapon took them forever to upgrade should be posting threads about how the upgrade process was awful.

[scaevola]

Your buyer's remorse notwithstanding, your Apoc is still better than my Thunderfury and nothing is stopping you from making a Caladbolg either.

[Catsby]

Your buyer's remorse notwithstanding, your Apoc is still better than my Thunderfury and nothing is stopping you from making a Caladbolg either.

This. I would also like to point out that despite one weapon being more powerful than another in abyssea I wish I had relic/mythic to go with my empyrean just because I think it would be awesome to have a small arsenal. The obvious problem is that dynamis/everything mythic related isn't worth the headache. If the dynamis update is as awesome as I hope it is I will be making a relic even if it is weaker than empyrean.

[Atomic_Skull]

You guys *do* know that 3 days ago an SE rep came into the relic thread in General discussion and said they were aware that empyrean outclassed relics and that they were planning to strengthen the relics to fix this, right?

[Atomic_Skull]

Should relics and mythics be more powerful? yes. Should relic and mythic owners be spamming forums about it? no. If anything all the people that are upset that their weapon took them forever to upgrade should be posting threads about how the upgrade process was awful.

The difficulty of the upgrade is what made it worth doing. It took me four years but honestly I wouldn't have wanted it any other way.

[Catsby]

The difficulty of the upgrade is what made it worth doing. It took me four years but honestly I wouldn't have wanted it any other way.

I think you missed my point. I was arguing the worth of the weapon between trial/upgrades and the meaningfulness of the individual trials. If a weapon takes forever to upgrade that may as well be. What sucks for nearly all trials and upgrades is how mindless they are. Is killing 1000 monsters under a certain condition really that much of a trial when you have already killed tens of thousands to level your jobs, quest, grind whatever?

I would argue that the upgrade process for a mythic weapon is the best because requires you to go through a TON of meaningful content but goes overboard by forcing you to turn in an unreasonable amount of alexandrite and repeat assault/einherjar too much. If something was done similarly with empyrean weapons people probably wouldn't be up in arms as much. I'm working on my 2nd empyrean and absolutely hate the process. I would much sooner 100% abyssea zones for empyrean upgrades than kill monsters 50,50,75 times. At least that way the end product would feel meaningful and I would have experienced everything.