Please consider nerfing rune fencer/adjusting mevasion

[Shiyo]

Rune fencer is a tank that does nearly as much damage as the highest damaging DD in the game(warrior).

It's nearly immune to status effects, has 81%+ parry for 90 seconds on a 5 minute cooldown and an obscene amount of magic defense tools(shields, aoe shields,etc).

There's no reason this job should be able to compete with the highest damaging job in the game(warrior) while also being incredibly tanky even in full DD gear.

People have been, and are now, bringing nothing but Lionheart rune fencers as their only DD jobs to content due to all these strengths and no actual weakness.

A job being this strong leaves very little room for other jobs to be used or put in the spotlight, and is just intentionally handicapping yourself trying to bring inferior DPS AND less survivable DD jobs

Please consider nerfing it's damage(take it off resolution?), or drastically lowering the effect of mevasion, which is the major culprit behind rune fencers immunity to most status effects and survivability vs most things.

Thank you.

[Halley]

Can agree that RUN shouldn't be as strong as it is, in it's ability to do damage.

It HAS to be as magically defensive as it is, or it's completely useless.

They've got RUN and MNK assbackwards. Nerf Resolution. (and buff h2h ws, all of them, by double)

[Clou777]

more crybabys looking for a nerf because they cant be bothered to level a worthwhile job, it literally takes 1-2 hours these days to go from 1-99. if you cant beat em.... just join em, it doesn't hurt

[Halley]

I'm master RUN with Epeo, and Lionheart, try again.

[Shiyo]

Can agree that RUN shouldn't be as strong as it is, in it's ability to do damage.

It HAS to be as magically defensive as it is, or it's completely useless.

They've got RUN and MNK assbackwards. Nerf Resolution. (and buff h2h ws, all of them, by double)
Mevasion is still a completely broken stat that as we get more and more gear, will become more noticably broken. It needs to be tuned down overall, not just for rune fencer either, for every job.

Someone had suggested to me that mevasion should never give more than a half resist on damage, and should never give more than 60% resist rate on status effects. I find this the perfect solution.

[Halley]

That's an over arching problem that they will never fix. Power Creep.

I'm ok with players being "overly powerful" defensively. It's easier that way... they're just going to make stronger mobs then they'd have to adjust it again.

It's not ok to have a "tank" be a better "dd" than actual "dd" though, even utility "dd"

[Kishr]

Another shiyo thread asking a nerf with no alternative

[Elexia]

Another shiyo thread asking a nerf with no alternative

It's funny too, because when RUN came out, as usual, people wanted it to be buffed because comparatively, it couldn't keep up early on. Now it's in a really good spot, which seems to be Shiyo's salt factor, every job that isn't his needs to be nerfed because the meta doesn't want his job.

Since I guess being on a server with low population makes it harder to make your own parties.

[BobbinT]

I never understand why there's even this request. Final Fantasy series has been very well known with abilities to play multi-job, which is always being carried to all series, no exception.

Maybe OP used to play non FF games where one avatar are locked to just one profession, but this is an FF game. Get used to it! :p

And with that being said, I'm against the idea. I love my RUN, especially because my fave heroine from FF6, Celes Chere, has her job profession as Rune Knight. :D

[Afania]

There's no reason this job should be able to compete with the highest damaging job in the game(warrior) while also being incredibly tanky even in full DD gear.

This is false.

Out of every single WoC zerg parse, like, last 20+ zergs or so, warrior was always on top, by at least 20% or more. There are multiple serious DD player with HQ aeonic RUN in LS, none ever come close to WAR.

In 6 man party (none-zerg) without all 3 support jobs, RUN is even further behind. The job is only really really strong with all 3 support jobs and even then it's not the best.

It's a great DD tank but a RUN DD tanking in hybrid set isn't going to deal good dmg either, most of the time they are equal/slightly behind COR.

The job is in a very good spot, that's for sure. But a well played WAR or any 2h DD isn't behind at all. This month we've done 4.5 min VD runs with RUN as DD or WAR, both jobs can clear just as fast and they basically make no difference.

Personally, I never understand why people keep making claims about RUN beating WAR in zergs. is good WAR really THAT rare? Even if RUN could keep up in 2016 I doubt it could in 2018 anymore. RUN didn't get much DD gears in past 2 years, but almost every other DD did. Most DD in 2018 are a bit stronger than 2016, but RUN kinda stayed the same.

[Halley]

He's the only one that thinks RUN is "that" good.

But the truth is RUN dd is simply "too" good for it's role, it's not "that" good.

[Afania]

He's the only one that thinks RUN is "that" good.

But the truth is RUN dd is simply "too" good for it's role, it's not "that" good.



It's not ok to have a "tank" be a better "dd" than actual "dd" though, even utility "dd"

It's good but saying RUN beats real DD is just false, nor community heavily prefer to the point to shout for DD RUN only every VD PUG. I get that good RUN DD gear is generally easy to obtain, since none came from +3s and people could just get aeonic in a week, recycle their HQ adhemar/Lustra from other jobs to have perfect TP/WS sets. Unlike other DD needs to farm cards and pay a bunch for +3 to hit the DPS ceiling, so a perfectly geared WAR DRK SAM is probably more rare.

While the job is pretty damn good, I don't feel that it needs a nerf. At least not until community shout for "RUN x3 can I have it"? Which probably will never happen. The situation of DD RUN is not quite the same as BLU in 2015-early 2016 when every pt shout for BLU only because they cap haste by themselves.

[Halley]

RUN is probably in the middle, solidly behind war/drk/blu/thf/cor/sam but also solidly ahead of mnk/pup/nin/bst

It shouldn't be better than any DD at all. (cor is also heavily overpowered for its role, but I kinda like it that way)

it really is only a matter of time before literally everything becomes only RUNs because the power creep with magical damage and status effects will push everyone else out.

Why take anything that isn't a RUN when RUN can do roughly the same damage, but be heavily favored in survival.

[Afania]

MNK is a problem on it's own, the solution is to buff it not to nerf RUN. NIN and PUP has their niche, RUN didn't make them obsolete. Their place would not change one bit regardless RUN nerfed or not.

RUN being a DD tank is often the reason why it gets invite. otherwise PLD is a much safer afk tanking job, why would we invite RUN over PLD in melee setup?




it really is only a matter of time before literally everything becomes only RUNs because the power creep with magical damage and status effects will push everyone else out.

Why take anything that isn't a RUN when RUN can do roughly the same damage, but be heavily favored in survival.

Lionheart has been out for 2 years, if it'll become a bandwagon like BLU in 2016 it would happen already. But nope, not happening, and I don't see it happening either.

In past 2 years or so, the DPS ceiling of RUN stay the same, BiS TP/WS set was still HQ from 2016. Almost every other DD's DPS ceiling increased by having god tier +3s.

If anything, lionheart is weaker in 2018 than 2016.

[Halley]

Because RUN is better at everything PLD does. Thats a whole different thing, but yeah, RUN beats PLD at literally everything. Even magic damage. (except maybe maximum hp)

What's better than 87.5% magic damage reduction? Taking zero damage through meva that pld could never dream of.

(which it has to be able to do, or it would be useless) so, the only fix is to make it less appealing as a DD.

[Afania]

PLD has far more safety net as a tank in mid tier gears. Native cure IV and raise is useful from time to time. Afaik it's better at super tanking still. 87.5% damage reduction is more useful than meva for canopierce. A none epeo RUN is usually more risky than a none burtang PLD, especially if mob has full dispel moves.

I think a top RUN is a better job than top PLD, but mid/low tier RUN isn't that much better, if at all.

Because of that it doesn't justify a nerf, IMO. It's one thing to say a job is slightly better than another for optimization. It's another to ask for a nerf.

A nerf should only happen if community heavily favor it by shouting for it all day and refuse to invite anything else, like BLU in 2016 or SMN in 2018.

[Alhanelem]

Man I've been out of the loop for a while, but in the time ive been back on the game i've not seen people shouting for rune fencers for their groups. If not for this thread I'd have no idea people actually wanted them for content.

[Halley]

Every other server is far behind asura. You're lucky to see shouts at all on any other server.

[Alhanelem]

Every other server is far behind asura. You're lucky to see shouts at all on any other server.
I see plenty of shouts. I just don't see RNF in demand in the ones I see.

[Afania]

With the exception of ambu this month, Asura shout for tank RUN but not DD RUN. The DD being shout for are usually SMN or ambuscade favor of the month DD like NIN, besides this month and maybe a month that needs one for all for AF, none of the ambu favors DD RUN. I thought RUN bandwagon would happen in 2016 when aeonic groups discovered how strong it was. 2 years has passed and I was wrong.

When it comes to pure DD, SMN setup pushes any DD job away when group aim for highest success rate. Top end group with top support and good tank isn't hindered one bit using stronger DD like WAR DRK SAM. Using RUN as DD in ambuscade locked 2nd DD to COR because all 3 supports are needed for RUN to deal acceptable DPS, and COR isn't exactly good SC partner with RUN. So overall the result isn't THAT great in ambu, compare with something like WAR+COR doing Upheaval savage upheaval.

As a tank a none epeo RUN is a bit more risky than none burtang PLD in PUG. So RUN-wagon isn't happening. While I do think a RUN with very good hybrid tank set is a better choice than PLD for optimization, PLD is a better choice in PUG. That's kinda balanced IMO.

DD RUN is good in this month's VD, mostly because each DD has to tank their own gob and RUN just happened to be able to DD in full DD set with battuta up, and healers are dead most of the time so there are no dedicated healer to cure bomb DDs.

Other wise with good tank and support, high level of surviability isn't required in ambu. Nevermind the fact that DD RUN is quite a horrible multi step SC job compare with WAR DRK SAM DRG THF DNC etc. So it's limiting it's potential as DD, because multi step is often a better way to DD in 6 man party.

[Shiyo]

Parses mean literally nothing in this game. RNG, reaciton time, lag, debuffs, fotia procs, haste dropping, def down dropping etc.

Anyways, pugs aren't a relevant measure of a jobs strength.

Hopefully the developers do something about the ever growing mevasion power creep!

[Afania]

Haste droping/def down dropping isn't relevant to WoC zergs, it's just a simple 2 min fight spamming WS as soon as 1000 TP, so haste/def drop doesn't happen. You can tell who has slower reaction time with parses via WS frequency data, RUN often has higher WS frenquency but still lose to WAR, because they can't MS like WAR. Honestly no job comes close to WAR for super buffed melee zergs, that's how it goes. Claiming RUN can keep up with MS WAR in zergs is just false.

It's not just PUG doesn't heavily prefer DD RUN, our endgame LS/static also don't. And we have many HQ/aeonic DD RUN + not a SMN burn group. Most endgame LS utilizing SMN setup probably prefer DD RUN even less.

SAM NIN MNK all has relatively high meva via Ken +1 sets, so high meva isn't RUN exclusive.

WAR DRK DRG etc can get relatively high surviability via buffs, in all of our WoC zergs stun never land on WARs.

Like I said, for top end groups there are no difference in terms of surviability between WAR and RUN because their support/tank is at a level that real DDs don't get hit as much, and any debuffs are either blocked completely via GEO buffs/carols or being removed immediately by healers.

For groups without super support/tank manpower they SMN burn all things anyways. RUN is irrelevant, nerf or not.

People keep acting as if every endgame group just throw tons and tons of DD RUNs at it, it just doesn't reflect truth. There are like 3 fights (schah, albuman, PW2) and 1 ambuscade month really favors DD RUN to the point that melee oriented groups throw DD RUNs at it, and SMN are even better choice than RUN for those 3 fights so it's not meta anyways.

[Kishr]

I see plenty of shouts. I just don't see RNF in demand in the ones I see.
Probably because it's RUN not RNF...

[Shiyo]

You seem pretty stuck on a single comment, and on a single boss. That's a shame, try opening your mind next time instead of fixating so hard on one or two things.

Hopefully the developers will do something about rune fencers doing as much damage as it does(more than any job except warrior) and reduce the effectiveness of mevasion globally for everyone - it's far too powerful of a stat when stacked with carols, addle, vex, attunement, barspells, etc. Shouldn't be able to completely remove status effects from a fight, or put any bosses magic land rate to to the floor so easily. Makes the game really boring.

Nerfing reso by a good amount would be a great change - Rune fencers best WS is reso and drk/war(the oither reso spammers) still have gaxe and torcleaver. Rune fencer would be the only one really nerfed, and it should be.

[Zuidar]

I don't understand how or why it should be justified for nerfing a job based solely on their ultimate weapons as one of the reaons you listed. But Resolution is also generally used by DRKs and WARs as well, so wouldn't nerfing Resolution affect DRKs and WARs who use the WS too? I don't think anyone one would want that.

RUN is a magic tank, so of course it's the idea of RUN to specialize in resisting magic damage and enfeeble effects with their abilities but also stacking other support abilities and spells from other jobs in the party to resist other enfeebles often.

So...It's wrong for RUN to have lots of magic evasion, but it's not wrong for DRK and WAR to have lots of attack?