Many people cheating, automated bot to farm drops to synth spheres for Escutcheon

[VoiceMemo]

SE there are so many cheaters on Asura using automated programs to farm mobs that drop items that are used to synth into elemental spheres for Escutcheon 4th stage.

I have called GM's and submitted reports to the Special Task Force yet they are still around. What is the point of the game when cheaters can run rampant and not be banned for clearly violating the terms of service.

I have played for over 12 years now and I'm farming the items and crafting the spheres myself.

It just makes me wonder why I still play when I'm doing it the way it was intended(NOT cheating), yet those that cheat can get away with it.

Please give GM's the mandate for when they are called they will go to witness the cheaters in action, or perhaps a whitelist of people that call GM's that have a good track record of reporting cheaters, this would reduce the call volume that GM's would have to go though.

[Nyarlko]

What kind of "cheating" have you seen/reported? Because, it's pretty difficult to get proof of a player cheating as a player. We don't have access to any of the server-side data, so it's actually possible for something that looks fishy to us to be perfectly legit behavior by another flesh/blood human player, frequently due to lag issues. Now, certain things are pretty easy to spot and should be easy to verify serverside, like movement speed hacking. If a player on foot is keeping up with me while I'm mounted, well, not too many ways to explain that... <,<;;

Other things may feel unfair, but are perfectly "legal" and easily done legitly, like multiboxing. I'm pretty sure that repetitive behaviors while farming don't really count otherwise we'd all be guilty of it when we follow farming loops. Heck, I know that I probably look pretty darn robotic when I'm farming after I've taken my pain meds, (since I have been reported and talked to GMs in other games before for it lol) but even when I'm mentally afk, it's still my fingers hitting the buttons on the keyboard. How do you prove otherwise, as a player, that those that you've reported are not just on mental autopilot? Because of that sort of thing, the GMs and STF would probably have to spend some time researching into what is going on before anything can happen. We don't want (and can't really afford) too many false bans at this point in the game after all.

I say all of this as someone who's approaching that stage for one of my shields myself. Which means that soon, I too will dealing with the exact same frustrating idjits that you are, and am not defending anyone for any reasons beyond on principle. The thing is, even if someone acts like a jerk, just because someone is competing against me for farming targets does not automatically make them a "cheater" or "botter", just a "jerk".

Something else to keep in mind is that they said in a JPside devpost (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/52836?p=604565&viewfull=1#post604565) last week that they are looking at adjusting pop/drop rates for mobs/items related to Escutcheons to ease the pain a bit and flatten out the difficulty level across all the elements. And that this will probably take a while, so please be patient. :x Whenever they are already working on something, frequently, related complaints don't get addressed until they are done with what they are working on. I will join you in the freakout later if needed if nothing gets actually fixed. :D

tl;dr: Be patient. They are already working on fixing stuff.

EDIT: As an alternative/additional solution, how about steadily increasing the pool of items that can be desynthed for spheres? I'm pretty sure that no one would complain if they ADDED Abyssea pop items to the list of items for instance. That'd be somewhere around 100+ potentially used items right there, no?

[VoiceMemo]

When you see a player running same routes constantly, only going to kill mob, if mob was out of the way instead of continuing where mob was killed they go back to the route they where they left and proceed along the route again. This is clear indication of automation. Or are you saying legit players would go back to where they left and continue.

No HUMAN player runs the same paths EXACTLY, this is automation.

[Justuas]

Se usually bans players in waves. Their time will come (hopefully).

[Nyarlko]

When you see a player running same routes constantly, only going to kill mob, if mob was out of the way instead of continuing where mob was killed they go back to the route they where they left and proceed along the route again. This is clear indication of automation. Or are you saying legit players would go back to where they left and continue.

No HUMAN player runs the same paths EXACTLY, this is automation.

Using WoW as an example, I have personally managed to perform at ~90% my best while suffering from ~1100ms lag for about a month when there were some issues w/ my ISP.. That means it took a bit more than a full second for my input to register, but I was still able to perform well in spite of this. I could do so because I had memorized the raid's placement of trash mobs, boss encounters and the routes to get to them, and was w/in normal operating error of margin as far as movement/timing went. Yes, that means I was basically just hitting buttons at certain times w/ little to no accurate feedback from the game itself, and still managed to act within ~100ms variance even during boss fights. This little story of mine serves as evidence that it IS possible to play a much twitchier game in a rather robotic manner successfully, so it should be far from impossible to play by button timing+sound rather than sight alone in a slow-paced game like FFXI as well.

While what you are seeing may seem suspect, there's nothing that actually prevents legit players from doing the same behavior, so it's not absolute proof of wrongdoing unfortunately. I wholeheartedly believe in "Innocent until proven guilty," so I am against witch hunts by default. ^^;; Like I said earlier though, I'm working on the last stage myself now, so I'll be seeing the same folks you are. If I agree that they look suspicious, then I'll report them too. The devside are the ones who will make the actual decision in the matter of guilt though, not me. I am not against rule enforcement in general, only unreasonable enforcement.

Personally, I'm hoping they simply expand the potential item pool and maybe increase success rate. Right now, there are very few sources of a very limited pool of items per element, which makes competition a lot worse than it really has to be. Especially since we are all going to be stuck in this farming grind for a very, very long time... Expanding the viable items in the pool would spread us out over more of the world at least. Would it really be that much of a bad thing if they were even 50% success rate desynths? :/

Best thing to do is file your reports, and continue doing so whenever you see it happening. They'll get around to dealing with the problem eventually on their own. Just give them time to figure out how to fix the system itself first before dealing with those breaking it.

[Dzspdref]

SE there are so many cheaters on Asura using automated programs to farm mobs that drop items that are used to synth into elemental spheres for Escutcheon 4th stage.

I have called GM's and submitted reports to the Special Task Force yet they are still around. What is the point of the game when cheaters can run rampant and not be banned for clearly violating the terms of service.

I have played for over 12 years now and I'm farming the items and crafting the spheres myself.

It just makes me wonder why I still play when I'm doing it the way it was intended(NOT cheating), yet those that cheat can get away with it.

Please give GM's the mandate for when they are called they will go to witness the cheaters in action, or perhaps a whitelist of people that call GM's that have a good track record of reporting cheaters, this would reduce the call volume that GM's would have to go though.

I am wholeheartedly agreeing with you. I can actually go into Palborough Mines regularly and find a few people that are dual-boxing; one is real person, other is their 2nd account running a regular repeating pattern over & over in EXACT same motions, literally to near pixel by pixel, exact same run routes, exact same attack patterns. I've actually done /follow on it, aggro'ed the quadavs just before he could, and the 'bot would run off to next, constantly. I did this for near 15 minutes, and the 'bot didn't seem phased one bit and it kept on going and going like an Energizer Bunny. I have been farming all my own spheres too and working on it my own, but the 'bots are killing it for us that are legitimately farming.
.
My response would be to make the spheres non-sellable, non-tradeable. Inter-characters on same account (mules) I can approve of as ok. Make them /ex. Either you use them or lose them, no more of this sell for gil and deprive others of it. Farm them, use them, make the shield, make the items from shield help, earn gil THAT way, not by making others fight over claiming mobs for these mats.
.
There is one dual-boxing player I know that is legitimate; she is farming them for her own shield process and using one to kill and one to make spheres, but the other 3+ pairs (probably more) are just killing it for rest of us.

[Nyarlko]

There is one dual-boxing player I know that is legitimate; she is farming them for her own shield process and using one to kill and one to make spheres, but the other 3+ pairs (probably more) are just killing it for rest of us.

I think I know the legit player you are talking about, and I plan on using the same tactic myself. ^^
...For years and years, until the servers go down, most likely, since after my Leathercrafter, I still have characters with GS/WW/BC/CC to do, and still have to start on the crafts. /cry

I think the big problem in what you said here is that there are 4+ "groups" farming an old-school zone like Palborough Mines when the repops are ~10min I think? That much competition is going to be brutal no matter what, bot wars or no. >.< I believe this aspect is what the devs are already planning to address, though we don't have any specifics or timeframe yet.

Yes, the pixel-perfects smell fishy as week old sushi. They should be reported. It should be a simple matter for a GM to test them for automation as well. I'm pretty sure that JPside folks have been complaining about the same issue as well, and it's likely on the schedule for after the proposed adjustments to droprates/poprates.

[VoiceMemo]

I could do so because I had memorized the raid's placement of trash mobs, boss encounters and the routes to get to them, and was w/in normal operating error of margin as far as movement/timing went. Yes, that means I was basically just hitting buttons at certain times w/ little to no accurate feedback from the game itself, and still managed to act within ~100ms variance even during boss fights.

This example is not the same, I'm talking about running the exact same pathways over and over, can you do that? and for HOURS on end, constantly, no breaks at all. The part that is most evident of automation is the fact when they leave the path to kill a mob, after the mob is dead they go back to the EXACT same spot where they left the path to continue on the path, instead of killing it then running forward(which is less distance).

I don't know ANY human player that does this, it's about the shortest route to each mob. If you know otherwise pls point me to a human player that does this kind of movement.

[Nyarlko]

This example is not the same, I'm talking about running the exact same pathways over and over, can you do that? and for HOURS on end, constantly, no breaks at all. The part that is most evident of automation is the fact when they leave the path to kill a mob, after the mob is dead they go back to the EXACT same spot where they left the path to continue on the path, instead of killing it then running forward(which is less distance).

I don't know ANY human player that does this, it's about the shortest route to each mob. If you know otherwise pls point me to a human player that does this kind of movement.

I could, and I did. I was in "progression raiding" for ~3-5hrs per night (no breaks for 3hr shifts orz), and had those 'net problems for over a full month while the cable company tried to get out of paying to replace failing hardware in the neighborhood. Even with miserable 1100ms+ lag, I was still able to maintain my DPS rotations at close to my maximum and my positioning was w/in ~1 walking step for movement and combat whenever I was able to check to verify it. (Admittedly, WoW has actual sanctioned addon functionality, and all of that sort of data is exposed for all players to have free access to and free reign as to how to use it, and we don't have that sort of access in FFXI.) BUT! I was doing the actual controlling by keeping time in my head for the most part, I'm absolutely nowhere near "the best" out there, and WoW is a far twitchier system where ms matter, so I know that machine-like precision is humanly possible.

Just because something doesn't make sense, does not mean that it's impossible. Simple example: Do you know for a fact that those you are accusing do not have acute OCD? (If you'd ever worked with a psych ward, then you would know that there are actual flesh and blood people who act similarly to what you are describing. It would take a LOT to go beyond what I believe a person would be willing to do.) If you can't factually say "yes", then that right there is a valid and viable explanation for the behavior, which means it would take actual work beyond the scope of what players can perform to prove much of anything otherwise. Now, is it likely that Palborough Mines is filled to the brim with OCD sufferers who can't handle not going back to an invisible line before continuing forward? Highly improbable, and I'm not saying that it is otherwise, but I don't believe that odd behavior alone is covered as a bannable offense in the TOS, so further research/proof from the staff will be needed.

Report away when you see something suspicious. That is what we are supposed to do. I'll probably do the same if I see something similar. After that, it's supposed to be in the hands of the GM/STF staff. It does sound to me like it appears to be automated, and I sincerely hope that GMs are already looking into your reports. However, I don't think that it is going to be very productive to demand action from the staff in a largely ignored/unstaffed discussion forum for players at a time when the dev-team is already working on the very system that is being cheated..

[Jile]

The bot's that are being spoken of do this for 24hrs/day every single day non stop...weeks...months.... You go to sleep. Human's sleep or go on 5 hour farming binges.. heck years ago I used to FC for 20hrs straight for friends....

I miss the days SE had botters in Mordion Gaol minutes after reporting them.

[VoiceMemo]

Still waiting for SE to do something about the bot farming of items used to make spheres. I have a list of people that are constantly farming them, only changing to other zones when they need other spheres, they go between Palborough Mines, The Eldieme Necropolis, Crawlers' Nest, and Garlaige Citadel.

[Sirmarki]

Still waiting for SE to do something about the bot farming of items used to make spheres. I have a list of people that are constantly farming them, only changing to other zones when they need other spheres, they go between Palborough Mines, The Eldieme Necropolis, Crawlers' Nest, and Garlaige Citadel.

Have you reported them to the STFU?

[Lunatone]

It doesnt matter whether they fix it now or not. There are already 2-3 of all the shields and those people are running the markets everywhere. Anymore shields will just drive prices into oblivion where theyre kind of already at vs the cost to make them

[Lunatone]

And in all honestly with the amount of time it should take to finish final phase I would have been suspicious after there were shields popping up literally a month after the update that added the final version. Even if they had capped gil on several mules there woudlnt have been enough spheres hanging around on AH's to fund more than maybe one or two shields

[VoiceMemo]

Have you reported them to the STFU?

I always call a GM and make a STF report when I see people auto farming.

[VoiceMemo]

Still waiting for SE to do something about these cheaters. It's so bad I'm really considering retiring from game if SE is going to turn a blind eye to the cheating. I've played for over 12 years now and this is how SE treats a loyal, NON cheating customer.

[Nyarlko]

Still waiting for SE to do something about these cheaters. It's so bad I'm really considering retiring from game if SE is going to turn a blind eye to the cheating. I've played for over 12 years now and this is how SE treats a loyal, NON cheating customer.

You can't expect immediate action for something like this. IF the situation is unchanged a few months after the March update to increase desynth pool, then it's worth complaining about again. Especially since we know that something is already being implemented regarding the root of the issue, it won't help you at all to quit in the meantime.

Cynical response: If you really want something to happen, try posting on JPside. Our side of the forums has no one on staff still as far as I know. :|

[VoiceMemo]

You can't expect immediate action for something like this. IF the situation is unchanged a few months after the March update to increase desynth pool, then it's worth complaining about again. Especially since we know that something is already being implemented regarding the root of the issue, it won't help you at all to quit in the meantime.

Cynical response: If you really want something to happen, try posting on JPside. Our side of the forums has no one on staff still as far as I know. :|


The solution to the issue is not add more items that can be monopolized by more farming bots, it's to ban those that are cheating. The people that cheated to make their shields are not just ruining asura's economy but other servers as well by making mules and sending HQ items over with them. They are benefiting off their ill gotten shields.

[Dragoy]

Cynical response: If you really want something to happen, try posting on JPside. Our side of the forums has no one on staff still as far as I know. :|

I believe there already is a thread about this there as well:

BOTを使用しているプレイヤーについて

[Nyarlko]

The solution to the issue is not add more items that can be monopolized by more farming bots, it's to ban those that are cheating. The people that cheated to make their shields are not just ruining asura's economy but other servers as well by making mules and sending HQ items over with them. They are benefiting off their ill gotten shields.

My point is that SE is not known for doing something while in the middle of something else related to the same thing. Since they are already doing something related to spheres, they are most likely not going to be interested in doing anything else related to spheres (which includes killing any proven bots,) until what the task they are working on has been completed. I am expecting a ban wave to hit after the March update goes live, just can't predict how soon after.

IF they've done what I'm hoping they've done and added Abyssea pop items to the list, that would also fully prevent monopolization of any zone. There would just be too large of a supply to scoop up, plus the whole 2hr time limit thing should help to prevent the 24/7 behavior that you and others have reported. Fingers crossed.


I believe there already is a thread about this there as well:

BOTを使用しているプレイヤーについて

I know of that thread, and it was partially behind my recommendation to post on that side. XD The devs routinely interact with the community 3-5 times per week, and often respond rapidly to requests/complaints, (which is why the chocobo suit/masque are on login atm actually) compared to our side's non-existent communication for more than the last year since they never filled the comrep position after Camate left. :(

[VoiceMemo]

SE clearly does not understand the issue with Escutcheons. From the update preview

"Among these changes is an increase to the minimum amount of spheres produced during the Escutcheon-creating process"

All this will do is let the bots finish FASTER as if more spheres are produced per synth, they still will have more synths than normal players who need to eat and sleep.

I'd rather it say "We are adding more staff to the Special Task Force to combat those that are using 3rd party programs"

[Halley]

The people doing what you describe are paying more subscriptions than you.

Guess which group of people a business like square cares more about.

[Nyarlko]

SE clearly does not understand the issue with Escutcheons. From the update preview

"Among these changes is an increase to the minimum amount of spheres produced during the Escutcheon-creating process"

All this will do is let the bots finish FASTER as if more spheres are produced per synth, they still will have more synths than normal players who need to eat and sleep.

I'd rather it say "We are adding more staff to the Special Task Force to combat those that are using 3rd party programs"

The JP version seems to be worded quite differently, so I think it really is best to wait and see what is actually getting adjusted before raging over a potential mistranslation. They even invited players to give continued feedback on this subject after the update goes live, looking for further points of adjustment, so this is not a one-n-done issue. They are willing to continue working on streamlining the process, and want to hear from us players what we want.. as long as we can post in a language they can understand. ^^;;

I say your best option is to wait until 1-2 weeks after update goes live and then post on JPside using GTRans in the appropriate threads. Better shot at changing something doing that than screaming at the walls over here.

[Ataraxia]

SE there are so many cheaters on Asura using automated programs to farm mobs that drop items that are used to synth into elemental spheres for Escutcheon 4th stage.

I have called GM's and submitted reports to the Special Task Force yet they are still around. What is the point of the game when cheaters can run rampant and not be banned for clearly violating the terms of service.

I have played for over 12 years now and I'm farming the items and crafting the spheres myself.

It just makes me wonder why I still play when I'm doing it the way it was intended(NOT cheating), yet those that cheat can get away with it.

Please give GM's the mandate for when they are called they will go to witness the cheaters in action, or perhaps a whitelist of people that call GM's that have a good track record of reporting cheaters, this would reduce the call volume that GM's would have to go though.

I completely agree with you. We are all human and we get tired doing the same thing over and over. That is without a doubt a BOT.

[Ataraxia]

The solution to the issue is not add more items that can be monopolized by more farming bots, it's to ban those that are cheating. The people that cheated to make their shields are not just ruining asura's economy but other servers as well by making mules and sending HQ items over with them. They are benefiting off their ill gotten shields.

This is very tough to disagree with but it is very true. Their primary goal is to make more than 999,999,999. Gil Selling have always existed for the longest time in FFXI and I have seen shout in Odin trying to sell gil recently in the month February 2018. I thought they were gone for good but they are still around. They aren't the same people that were ban awhile back. I believe the adjustment is coming but I don't think that will do any good. The bad elitist already achieved their goal so it doesn't matter at this point. They will continue to sell Gil and the existence of windower user doesn't help it either. Their are good elite and leader of a LS which is rare to find.

[VoiceMemo]

And WHY do we need adjustments at all. SE just needs to enforce EXISTING rules. Isn't 3rd party use illegal already? The easiest solution is that when someone calls a GM for witnessing 3rd party bot program farming is to have the GM appear and witness it, than give the automated response of "that they know of 3rd party use is harmful to players and please submit to special task force". The cheaters are the problem NOT the legitimate players.

[Sirmarki]

And WHY do we need adjustments at all. SE just needs to enforce EXISTING rules. Isn't 3rd party use illegal already? The easiest solution is that when someone calls a GM for witnessing 3rd party bot program farming is to have the GM appear and witness it, than give the automated response of "that they know of 3rd party use is harmful to players and please submit to special task force". The cheaters are the problem NOT the legitimate players.

The GM appearing was actually a thing once.
I can imagine it takes a lot of time to comb through data to find discrepancies, and be able to prove that the player is cheating.

I think it was you that mentioned white listing players who's STFU reports generally turn out to be accurate. I can imagine that SE get a lot of incorrect or bogus reports to filter through.

[Nyarlko]

And WHY do we need adjustments at all. SE just needs to enforce EXISTING rules. Isn't 3rd party use illegal already? The easiest solution is that when someone calls a GM for witnessing 3rd party bot program farming is to have the GM appear and witness it, than give the automated response of "that they know of 3rd party use is harmful to players and please submit to special task force". The cheaters are the problem NOT the legitimate players.

GMs don't have jurisdiction over botters, STF does. Both groups are employees of the same company and are just following company procedure. Even if the GM popped in and watched someone "botting", they don't have the data access to prove any wrongdoing and/or authority to do anything about it (is how it seems at least.) I'm not sure what GMs are actually for nowadays tbh. :/ I just wish they added "and be sure to use the template in the sticky" to their script when telling someone to file a bug report.

If the devs can't/won't prove wrongdoing for any of those farming spheres, then they'll do the next best thing and nerf the difficulty so that every farmer can be done faster and get out of the way for the next player! =_=;;
I have a feeling this is the basis for their current solution/adjustment, and they are open to further feedback later as well in case this is not enough.

I get your ire. I get your frustration. But is an adjustment really that bad a thing if the non-24/7 players who have to eat and sleep can still finish up an Escutcheon in a month of dedicated work?

[VoiceMemo]

GMs don't have jurisdiction over botters, STF does.

Well something changed then because back in the day I reported MANY fishbots to GMs and within 10 minutes I'd see them visually disappear without a GM even showing up. Search would not show the fishbots, so based on it not being a DC, they were forcibly moved to Mordion Gaol.

IF GM's could do this in the past why can't they do the same for automated farming bots? It's the exact same thing, automated programs being used.

If the bannings now fall to STF I'd suggest SE move the power back to the GMs, so they can be more proactive at removal of 3rd party programs.

[VoiceMemo]

I'm even running into bots farming elementals in sky. What is the point of playing anymore, cheating is rampant, SE doesn't do anything about them. I don't mind competing versus other PLAYERS but this is getting to the point I might as well quit if SE is going to do nothing about the cheaters.

[Dzspdref]

And there are actual scripts that are available that cheaters use to lot out the sphere making materials when they land in treasure pool, then synth that item, then checks if needs more crystals, and rinse/wash/repeat. This is easily detectable by a GM when NO keystrokes are performed to do these actions, but actions occur anyway. I mean you cannot even make a macro for synthable items in your inventory unless you use /lastsynth, and THAT only works for one singular recipe of your "last synthesis" item, not any item that you can do. This should be an instant way to remove cheaters, using 3rd party programs to go around the game mechanics we legitimately legal players do.

[Kilantzer]

Greetings, Voicememo!

Thank you for expressing your concerns regarding players suspected of utilizing third-party programs to their advantage in-game. We understand how the use of such programs are unfair and we apologize for any frustration caused by this.

We strongly recommend submitting your own report directly to the Special Task Force. Due to the high volumes of calls that we receive regularly, immediate resolution may not be seen. However by doing so, the Special Task Force is able to conduct a thorough investigation that will ultimately result in appropriate action being taken where seen most necessary.

Just a reminder, you can submit your report by visiting http://support.na.square-enix.com and choosing FINAL FANTASY XI. Then, select Contact to access the reporting form.

Thank you for your patience, and best wishes to you.
FINAL FANTASY XI Game Master Team

[VoiceMemo]

I always do submit a GM call and a report to the STF whenever I encounter automated bot farmers.

And today I did not encounter 3 of the bots that I've reported before, so hopefully my efforts are paying off.

For those on asura or other servers that also see cheaters that may not know the link here is the exact link to the STF.

http://support.na.square-enix.com/contacttop.php?id=20&la=1

[Nyarlko]

Greetings, Voicememo!

Thank you for expressing your concerns regarding players suspected of utilizing third-party programs to their advantage in-game. We understand how the use of such programs are unfair and we apologize for any frustration caused by this.

We strongly recommend submitting your own report directly to the Special Task Force. Due to the high volumes of calls that we receive regularly, immediate resolution may not be seen. However by doing so, the Special Task Force is able to conduct a thorough investigation that will ultimately result in appropriate action being taken where seen most necessary.

Just a reminder, you can submit your report by visiting http://support.na.square-enix.com and choosing FINAL FANTASY XI. Then, select Contact to access the reporting form.

Thank you for your patience, and best wishes to you.
FINAL FANTASY XI Game Master Team

Welcome to the EN Forums, Kilantzer! :D Hope to see you around here more often.

[Nyarlko]

In other news, during the Freshly Picked 38 broadcast earlier today, they announced that we'll be able to farm spheres from mobs in Adoulin areas. They will now drop a new EX, 99/stack, item called "Cards" which we can desynth into spheres. Wasn't able to pick out all the details, but sure sounds like there will be no more shortage or competition for mobs, regardless of whether or not said competition was botting. :D

[Halley]

In other news, during the Freshly Picked 38 broadcast earlier today, they announced that we'll be able to farm spheres from mobs in Adoulin areas. They will now drop a new EX, 99/stack, item called "Cards" which we can desynth into spheres. Wasn't able to pick out all the details, but sure sounds like there will be no more shortage or competition for mobs, regardless of whether or not said competition was botting. :D

Yo, straight up, this is a horrible idea. Those same bots will farm these "cards" 24/7

If you thought the reive bots were bad back in early 2012/13 just wait for this to happen.

But hey, I'm all for free Hq gear, cause that's what's going to happen. There will be zero economy left.

[Lunatone]

GMs don't have jurisdiction over botters, STF does. Both groups are employees of the same company and are just following company procedure. Even if the GM popped in and watched someone "botting", they don't have the data access to prove any wrongdoing and/or authority to do anything about it (is how it seems at least.) I'm not sure what GMs are actually for nowadays tbh. :/ I just wish they added "and be sure to use the template in the sticky" to their script when telling someone to file a bug report.

If the devs can't/won't prove wrongdoing for any of those farming spheres, then they'll do the next best thing and nerf the difficulty so that every farmer can be done faster and get out of the way for the next player! =_=;;
I have a feeling this is the basis for their current solution/adjustment, and they are open to further feedback later as well in case this is not enough.

I get your ire. I get your frustration. But is an adjustment really that bad a thing if the non-24/7 players who have to eat and sleep can still finish up an Escutcheon in a month of dedicated work?


Its not a bad thing if it makes it easier for the rest of us but the main issue imo is that theyre already dominating the market and adding more shields wont make anything better the damage has already been done. If it were at all possible I'd suggest do the adjustment yes but ban the people who botted their shields to completion.

Again eyebrows should have been raised when these shields were showing up completed the month after the update that added last stage.

Whats the point of you getting a shield now? To make your own stuff maybe, but you woud have have to compete with the people who are hopping servers to buy mats for 5-600 mass synths of HQs and then selling them all again.

If a new synth comes out they will just buy out all the mats before you get a chance to get any so really making shields more accessible is just saying "here you too can craft your own stuff HQ for the low price of blah blah"

[Nyarlko]

Yo, straight up, this is a horrible idea. Those same bots will farm these "cards" 24/7

If you thought the reive bots were bad back in early 2012/13 just wait for this to happen.

But hey, I'm all for free Hq gear, cause that's what's going to happen. There will be zero economy left.

Will it really matter tho if every single SoA non-NM can drop these new cards? There aren't enough players left on any server at this point to successfully crowd out the entire expac's worth of targets. The only immediate economic impact I'm seeing is that the price for spheres will plummet once it's simple enough for anyone/everyone to get them. It will still take a considerable time investment to complete the rest of the process, and there's no new time-saving shortcuts for reaching 100,000 spirit, or completing any of the earlier stages. I'd say this change is sort of comparable to what happened between old (lockout and group required) Dynamis relic farming vs new (spammable and soloable) Dynamis farming along with the reforge/upgrade process. They are shortening part of the grind, not the whole trip and all this really does is save player time.


Its not a bad thing if it makes it easier for the rest of us but the main issue imo is that theyre already dominating the market and adding more shields wont make anything better the damage has already been done. If it were at all possible I'd suggest do the adjustment yes but ban the people who botted their shields to completion.

Again eyebrows should have been raised when these shields were showing up completed the month after the update that added last stage.

Whats the point of you getting a shield now? To make your own stuff maybe, but you woud have have to compete with the people who are hopping servers to buy mats for 5-600 mass synths of HQs and then selling them all again.

If a new synth comes out they will just buy out all the mats before you get a chance to get any so really making shields more accessible is just saying "here you too can craft your own stuff HQ for the low price of blah blah"

As I've said earlier in this thread, I'm expecting a ban wave to hit at least some of those who have botted their way to their shields >AFTER< this adjustment goes live. Yes, damage has been done and even high-end HQs are down to ~40mil each. No, it's not at/past the point where having a completed Escutcheon is solely for making your own gear.

[Halley]

It's 100% past that point. The cost of a shield (not even counting spheres) is still in the billions. Since even the BEST HQ gear (non su3) is sub 40m it would take a year just to break even with the cost now.

And that is only going to get worse if these cards are anything higher than 1% drops.

Calculate the bare minimum; if you make lvl 1 for cheapest catalyst
2 Spheres + 2 crystals + 2(?) catalyst = 1 spirit?

200,000 spheres + 200,000 crystals + 300*200,000 gil(catalyst) = shield, not accounting for breaks.

60m? if spheres are free and crystals are free

(this would take.......... thousands of hours btw) but extremely cheap. using higher catalyst dramatically speeds it up, as well as the cost

[Lunatone]

Will it really matter tho if every single SoA non-NM can drop these new cards? There aren't enough players left on any server at this point to successfully crowd out the entire expac's worth of targets. The only immediate economic impact I'm seeing is that the price for spheres will plummet once it's simple enough for anyone/everyone to get them. It will still take a considerable time investment to complete the rest of the process, and there's no new time-saving shortcuts for reaching 100,000 spirit, or completing any of the earlier stages. I'd say this change is sort of comparable to what happened between old (lockout and group required) Dynamis relic farming vs new (spammable and soloable) Dynamis farming along with the reforge/upgrade process. They are shortening part of the grind, not the whole trip and all this really does is save player time.



As I've said earlier in this thread, I'm expecting a ban wave to hit at least some of those who have botted their way to their shields >AFTER< this adjustment goes live. Yes, damage has been done and even high-end HQs are down to ~40mil each. No, it's not at/past the point where having a completed Escutcheon is solely for making your own gear.

I get what youre thinking and I'd like to be hopeful but I highly doubt theyre going to ban the people who actually have shields, maybe their mules that farm, maybe their mules that are holding gil which would cripple them a little at most.

Unless SE has someway of connecting the dots with botting mules to the person who owns the shield I dont think much will come from it nor do I think they will actually ban the people who have botted them. I agree with halley and he's right still would take tons of time and with everything being borderline worthless now vs the cost it is to make them I dont see this really doing any good

SE really should have done something about this the moment shield popped so early but its no longer a problem its just part of the game now. Prices wont go back up to profitable levels and mats will still stay roughly the same because the people farming them will still want to make money

[VoiceMemo]

Yes the damage has already been done. Though this could be SE's plan to reduce prices, but I think the cheated shields still hurt the economy as likely they are made by gilsellers, which in turn supplies the gil for those that are gilbuyers that cheat. Whenever possible I report both the bot farmer and the synther as they are in party together. If it's only me and 2 others in zone in party it's clearly the bot and the synther in party. Other times it's not as clear but whenever I can determine I report them both.

[Nyarlko]

Yes the damage has already been done. Though this could be SE's plan to reduce prices, but I think the cheated shields still hurt the economy as likely they are made by gilsellers, which in turn supplies the gil for those that are gilbuyers that cheat. Whenever possible I report both the bot farmer and the synther as they are in party together. If it's only me and 2 others in zone in party it's clearly the bot and the synther in party. Other times it's not as clear but whenever I can determine I report them both.

Don't forget that making the shields takes a TON of gil out of the economy as well. They are FAR from free. :x

[VoiceMemo]

Don't forget that making the shields takes a TON of gil out of the economy as well. They are FAR from free. :x

It's not really THAT much, I'm farming spheres and my npc costs for 6 step skillchains current projections it will cost around 130m.

[Halley]

It's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay higher than that if you go to the t3 catalysts.

Its 100k~ for 15 spirit (in just catalyst) and the odds of breaking get higher as you go.

120,000 (total spirit counting possible breaks)/ 15(spirit for full synthchain) x 100k(cost for catalyst) ~ 800,000,000 for the shield if you go t3 catalyst, spheres are free, better double check how you think its going to only cost 130m

[VoiceMemo]

I always do submit a GM call and a report to the STF whenever I encounter automated bot farmers.

And today I did not encounter 3 of the bots that I've reported before, so hopefully my efforts are paying off.

For those on asura or other servers that also see cheaters that may not know the link here is the exact link to the STF.

http://support.na.square-enix.com/contacttop.php?id=20&la=1

Guess I spoke too soon the 3 cheaters I reported still around today, where is the support SE they were clearly cheating, less you really believe they have OCD have to run the exact paths EVERY time for HOURS on end with ZERO breaks. That even they see the room is empty their OCD is so great they have to go in and follow the EXACT same pathways.

[VoiceMemo]

It's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay higher than that if you go to the t3 catalysts.

Its 100k~ for 15 spirit (in just catalyst) and the odds of breaking get higher as you go.

120,000 (total spirit counting possible breaks)/ 15(spirit for full synthchain) x 100k(cost for catalyst) ~ 800,000,000 for the shield if you go t3 catalyst, spheres are free, better double check how you think its going to only cost 130m

How is it higher? I am using 6 step skillchains which use T3 catalysts. I have recorded all my synths so far and projecting based on the amount of spirit I gain per 6 step will be about 130m. I have accounted for all my breaks so far.

With the double light/dark, my average is 31 spirit per 6 step. I base my estimation off my existing data that I keep and project to 100%

[Halley]

How many catalyst do you burn in one chain for 31 spirit? I was thinking it takes 2 40k per 6 step, but it's only 1?

I'm assuming its 300 300 300 8000 40000 40000 < that's ~ 90k
Or is it 300 300 300 8000 40000 ~ 50k

100,000 / 31 = 3225 x 50k, comes out to 150m but no accounting for breaks and bg says "double light" only gives 15, not 31


Level 1 Synthchain:

Choose Wind Crystal icon.png Wind Crystal + Deton. Sphere icon.png Detonation Sphere, you will perform a wind synthesis. Follow this up by a Earth Crystal icon.png Earth Crystal + Sciss. Sphere icon.png Scission Sphere to create a Scission synthchain onto the device, which is a successful level 1 synthchain.

Continuing Level 1 Synthchain:

From here, you are able to then use a Fire Crystal icon.png Fire Crystal + Lique. Sphere icon.png Liquefaction Sphere to make a Liquefaction synthchain.

Upgrading to Level 2 Synthchain:

You may then follow with a Lightng. Crystal icon.png Lightning Crystal + Impac. Sphere icon.png Impaction Sphere to then create a level 2 Fusion synthchain.

Upgrading to Level 3 Synthchain:

After the above Fusion synthchain, you should then be able to use a Wind Crystal icon.png Wind Crystal + Fragm. Sphere icon.png Fragmentation Sphere to create a Light Synthchain.

Continuing Level 3 Synthchain:

You may then combine this with Light Crystal icon.png Light Crystal + Light Sphere icon.png Light Sphere for another Light synthesis chain.

Although this is technically Double Light, you only receive 15 spirit.

Only have what's posted to go by, I would never be stupid enough to actually make the shield myself.

[VoiceMemo]

How many catalyst do you burn in one chain for 31 spirit? I was thinking it takes 2 40k per 6 step, but it's only 1?

I'm assuming its 300 300 300 8000 40000 40000 < that's ~ 90k
Or is it 300 300 300 8000 40000 ~ 50k

100,000 / 31 = 3225 x 50k, comes out to 150m but no accounting for breaks and bg says "double light" only gives 15, not 31



Only have what's posted to go by, I would never be stupid enough to actually make the shield myself.


Well my data is based on ACTUAL data. You are reading bg wiki wrong, where it says "Although this is technically Double Light, you only receive 15 spirit." it is saying that even though it is double light you only receive the 15 spirit, same as the level 3 skillchain. It is emphasizing that even though it is T4 light you do not get any MORE spirt than the T3.

The example posted on BGwiki IF all nq, will be 1,2,2,5,15,15 for a total of 40 spirit.

Catalyst cost would be 300 x 4 T1, 1x T2, and 1x T3, for a total of 49,200 gil.

And it is not stupid, some of us have done everything else we wanted to do in game, a T4 shield is a long term goal that some of us strive for.

[Nyarlko]

No more stupid than building any REMA. Escutcheons are gamechangers for crafting, same as the performance/desirability bump you see from REMA vs non-REMA. Shield will recoup it's gil costs sooner than those too. :3

[Halley]

Instead of wasting the 3.5 BILLION gil the shield is worth, you could be doing literally anything else and it would be more worth while.

You can sell the spheres you're wasting and buy 12 mythics / every single +1 piece of gear in the game instead.

[Dzspdref]

How many catalyst do you burn in one chain for 31 spirit? I was thinking it takes 2 40k per 6 step, but it's only 1?

I'm assuming its 300 300 300 8000 40000 40000 < that's ~ 90k
Or is it 300 300 300 8000 40000 ~ 50k

100,000 / 31 = 3225 x 50k, comes out to 150m but no accounting for breaks and bg says "double light" only gives 15, not 31



Only have what's posted to go by, I would never be stupid enough to actually make the shield myself.

Try this recipe as an example:
Induration Sphere (Ice Crystal) :: gives 1 spirit / (2 if HQ1, 3 if HQ2, 4 if HQ3), then...
Reverberation Sphere (Water Crystal) :: 5 spirit / (8 for HQ1, 10 for HQ2) then...
Fusion Sphere (Fire Crystal) :: 15 spirit / (29 for HQ1?) then ...
Light Sphere (Light crystal) :: 15 spirit / (?? for HQ1?)
.
This nets out 36 spirit for 2 MC-01, 1 MC-02, and 1 MC-03's . Even more if you get a HQ result as I have a few times. (Haven't gotten HQ on the ?? ones yet).
.
Another path to follow with little higher cost is:
Induration / Ice >> (1/2)
Reverberation / Water >> (2/4)
Distortion / Ice >> (5/9)
Gravitation / Earth >> (15/29)
Darkness / Dark. (15/??).
.
I have more but I'll post them in bgwiki as a recipe list as I get to them. Hope it helps.

[Nyarlko]

Instead of wasting the 3.5 BILLION gil the shield is worth, you could be doing literally anything else and it would be more worth while.

You can sell the spheres you're wasting and buy 12 mythics / every single +1 piece of gear in the game instead.

I'm not sure there is any way to actually spend 3.5 BILLION gil building a shield, and IF there is a way, you would have to be lacking any of the business/economic knowledge necessary to be successful with crafting in the first place.

Theoretically, if you were to spam only T1>T1(T2SC) chains, then you could actually spend as little as 10mil. Would take forever and a day (16,667 chains) but it would work. XD

Doing T1>T1(T2SC)>T2(T3SC) all the way up would be ~41mil (4,762 chains.)
Using the above 4-step, T1>T1(T2SC)>T2(T3SC)>T3(T3SC) would be 135mil (2,778 chains.)
Using the above 5-step, T1>T1(T2SC)>T2(T2SC)>T2(T3SC)>T3(T3SC) would be ~138mil (2,440 chains.)
Using the most expensive option I can come up with, T3 > T3 = T3(T3SC), would be ~267mil (3,334 chains.)

I think that chaining T1 spheres between T1-T2 is the most bang for the buck.
Scission > Liquefaction (T1 Liquefaction) > Impaction (T2 Fusion) > Detonation (T1 Detonation) > Compression (T2 Gravitation) > Distortion (T3 Darkness) = 1+2+5+2+5+15 = 30 spirit for 9500 gil, 3,334 chains, ~32mil total.

The price only really skyrockets when you start including T3s (jumps from ~41mil > 135mil) and buying spheres instead of farming them, but in that case you are paying to save time. Patience will save you a fortune. I'm curious where you got your 3.5 BILLION quote from though since you are not stupid enough to make one yourself. XD

Also, spheres are probably about to price crash into Eschalixir territory. lol T2/T3s might still be worth something, but are still quite likely to drop, and T1s are gonna be trash gil-wise not too far in the future.

My math was done assuming that the tiers used are correct, no HQs, chains give 1sp/T1 starter, 2sp/T1SC, 5sp/T2SC, 15sp/T3SC and ignore elements since all that matters is that the tier sequence is possible/correct.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong anywhere, since I do need to learn this stuff anyway. ^^;;

[VoiceMemo]

Theoretically, if you were to spam only T1>T1(T2SC) chains, then you could actually spend as little as 10mil. Would take forever and a day (16,667 chains) but it would work. XD

Doing T1>T1(T2SC)>T2(T3SC) all the way up would be ~41mil (4,762 chains.)
Using the above 4-step, T1>T1(T2SC)>T2(T3SC)>T3(T3SC) would be 135mil (2,778 chains.)
Using the above 5-step, T1>T1(T2SC)>T2(T2SC)>T2(T3SC)>T3(T3SC) would be ~138mil (2,440 chains.)
Using the most expensive option I can come up with, T3 > T3 = T3(T3SC), would be ~267mil (3,334 chains.)

I think that chaining T1 spheres between T1-T2 is the most bang for the buck.
Scission > Liquefaction (T1 Liquefaction) > Impaction (T2 Fusion) > Detonation (T1 Detonation) > Compression (T2 Gravitation) > Distortion (T3 Darkness) = 1+2+5+2+5+15 = 30 spirit for 9500 gil, 3,334 chains, ~32mil total. ;

I'm not in total agreements with your chain calcs. I calced mine in number of sets projecting around 3200 sets of 6 step skillchain.

As for your 32mil total, I don't believe that skillchain path is possible, as you have a T2 burst going back to a T1. I've never seen this possible and any skillchain calculator I've looked at does not give this option.

[Halley]

So How much gil is required outright for the Synth Catalysts if you do only 6 steps?

3.5 billion

https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/51439/escutcheons-final-stage/10/#reply

[Nyarlko]

I'm not in total agreements with your chain calcs. I calced mine in number of sets projecting around 3200 sets of 6 step skillchain.

As for your 32mil total, I don't believe that skillchain path is possible, as you have a T2 burst going back to a T1. I've never seen this possible and any skillchain calculator I've looked at does not give this option.

It most definitely is possible. ^^ I do it as my SOP when soloing.

With skillchains, there are recursive T1 chains possible like: Liquefaction > Impaction (Fusion) > Liquefaction (Liquefaction) > Impaction (Fusion) > etc. Once you step up to using a real T2 to make a T3SC though, I don't think that it can be brought back down.

With craftchains, we're not allowed to repeat the same chain, so have to get more creative, but it most definitely should work (as long as they really do mirror skillchain mechanics perfectly and I'm not misinformed.)

For your calcs, did you include a T3? I didn't in order to keep catalyst/gil cost down to a minimum. Spirit values are determined by the SC produced and not the sphere used, right? Are my numbers for the amount of spirit gained per step in my 6-step correct?

[VoiceMemo]

I posted my setup in previous posts

The example posted on BGwiki IF all nq, will be 1,2,2,5,15,15 for a total of 40 spirit.

Catalyst cost would be 300 x 4 T1, 1x T2, and 1x T3, for a total of 49,200 gil.

Spirit value is determined by result of the synth,either NQ or HQ

Have you actually tried
Scission > Liquefaction (T1 Liquefaction) > Impaction (T2 Fusion) > Detonation (T1 Detonation) > Compression (T2 Gravitation) > Distortion (T3 Darkness)

Because the skillchain calculator I use do not show this as possible.

[Nyarlko]

https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/51439/escutcheons-final-stage/10/#reply

You are conveniently leaving out the very next two posts. :3


Yikes that is just the the MC-I Items? That is insane.

no thats for the spheres
Admittedly, Toralin didn't give a proper answer to the question the first time.

It's not the best argument to quote the guy aiming to complete the very first Escutcheon, since sphere costs have come down since the initial gold-rush and he had deep enough pockets to not care about the outrageous cost at the time when he was buying every sphere he could get his hands on.

I was calculating out the cost of catalysts only. Should probably tack something on to cover crystal costs as well for a full estimate tbh, but didn't want to complicate the math just yet since I'm still trying to figure things out. Spheres are also looking to become free-ish and easily farmed, and probably shouldn't be factored into a discussion rooted in farming your own (and the hassles of dealing with possibly automated competition.)

[Nyarlko]

I posted my setup in previous posts

The example posted on BGwiki IF all nq, will be 1,2,2,5,15,15 for a total of 40 spirit.

Catalyst cost would be 300 x 4 T1, 1x T2, and 1x T3, for a total of 49,200 gil.

Spirit value is determined by result of the synth,either NQ or HQ

Have you actually tried
Scission > Liquefaction (T1 Liquefaction) > Impaction (T2 Fusion) > Detonation (T1 Detonation) > Compression (T2 Gravitation) > Distortion (T3 Darkness)

Because the skillchain calculator I use do not show this as possible.

I'm still leveling up the percentage on my shield, so I'm not on this part yet and can't confirm in-game myself, but it really should work as an actual skillchain. I can confirm that Warlike Patrick (BST Jug pet) can easily 4-step by bouncing between the same two Ready moves (which are Liquefaction and Impaction.) It's possible for 2x of these pets to 7-step doing the same thing.
Check what your calculator says happens for: Liquefaction > Impaction > Liquefaction > Impaction. If it spits out an error, then it's a problem with the calculator and it just hasn't been made to handle somewhat rare-use cases like juggling T1s rather than aiming for the highest tier SC possible.

[Halley]

YOU were calculating the catalyst only.

-I- said you're better off selling the spheres for the money.

BUYING the spheres (and by extension using, instead of selling) wastes billions.


Instead of wasting the 3.5 BILLION gil the shield is worth, you could be doing literally anything else and it would be more worth while.

You can sell the spheres you're wasting and buy 12 mythics / every single +1 piece of gear in the game instead.

[Nyarlko]

YOU were calculating the catalyst only.

-I- said you're better off selling the spheres for the money.

BUYING the spheres (and by extension using, instead of selling) wastes billions.

That's only if the spheres are still worth billions, which I rather doubt at this point, and am sure they won't be in a month.

As of right now, on Asura:
T3 = 300k/ea, going down
T2 = Frag: 250k/ea, others: 100k/ea
T1 = 30k-50k/ea, going down

You are welcome to math it out if you really want to figure out how much it would cost to BUY a shield right now, but most crafters won't be going that route. Honestly, if the new cards work the way I think they will, then all of the above are going to crash within a month.

[Halley]

They won't be worth 1g in a week if they add stackable desynthable cards that bots can go bananas on.

But currently.

When they add stackable desynthable cards, I'll be making one of every shield myself.

[Nyarlko]

They won't be worth 1g in a week if they add stackable desynthable cards that bots can go bananas on.

But currently.

When they add stackable desynthable cards, I'll be making one of every shield myself.

Awesome! :D Don't forget about the non-sphere-related costs tho. Just because spheres will be easy to farm does not make the rest of the shield become free even if the spheres basically are. (Which was why I started mathing out the catalyst costs. lol)

* ~1mil Guild Points < What it's going to take me for LC doing lv70 kits for avg of 56CP per kit
* Mats for annoying ROE synths, most of which are not exactly cheap
* Mats for kits, costs vary drastically between crafts. My LC kit cost me a fixed 7200gil each. GS looks closer to 30k each.
* Mats/crystals for garbage synths for leveling up the percentage on the shield. I'm estimating ~5k-6k crystals for all 4 stages based on my experience so far.
* Crystals to desynth items/cards into spheres. ~20k+ successes needed. Probably 3x-5x that to cover breaks.
* Crystals to perform the craftchains. ~20k based on the estimates in this thread.

... I'm looking at doing this all over again at least 4x more after my LC shield is done. T_T

[VoiceMemo]

I'm still leveling up the percentage on my shield, so I'm not on this part yet and can't confirm in-game myself, but it really should work as an actual skillchain. I can confirm that Warlike Patrick (BST Jug pet) can easily 4-step by bouncing between the same two Ready moves (which are Liquefaction and Impaction.) It's possible for 2x of these pets to 7-step doing the same thing.
Check what your calculator says happens for: Liquefaction > Impaction > Liquefaction > Impaction. If it spits out an error, then it's a problem with the calculator and it just hasn't been made to handle somewhat rare-use cases like juggling T1s rather than aiming for the highest tier SC possible.

Site I use accounts for beast pets too. I really don't see how those are possible via the elements, seems to violate the skillchain property of first to second property rule.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Category:Skillchain

Now IF you meant, Impaction to Liquifaction(liquifaction burst) then to Impaction for (Fusion) that would work.

[Nyarlko]

Site I use accounts for beast pets too. I really don't see how those are possible via the elements, seems to violate the skillchain property of first to second property rule.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Category:Skillchain

It still works in-game. :3 My personal explanation is that the newest attribute is accounted for as a secondary attribute for continuing skillchain purposes. So Liquefaction > Impaction = Fusion (w/ secondary Impaction), etc. So long as the next WS can chain with either Fusion OR Impaction, the skillchain will continue appropriately.

Try checking Brain Crush > Tail Blow > Brain Crush > Tail Blow and see if an error pops out. If it doesn't give the SC I gave above, then the calculator is most definitely wrong.

[Selindrile]

My views on the rest of this whole debate aside, all of the calculators and wiki entries do say that it's impossible to go from T2 > T1.

I just tested Brain Crush > Tail Blow > Brain Crush in game, and got:
Brain Crush > Tail Blow (Fusion) > Brain Crush = Nothing

I could not seem to make your chain work in game, but I'm open to trying more if you're sure that such a thing is possible.

[Nyarlko]

My views on the rest of this whole debate aside, all of the calculators and wiki entries do say that it's impossible to go from T2 > T1.

I just tested Brain Crush > Tail Blow > Brain Crush in game, and got:
Brain Crush > Tail Blow (Fusion) > Brain Crush = Nothing

I could not seem to make your chain work in game, but I'm open to trying more if you're sure that such a thing is possible.

It does work is the thing though. :x I don't know why it wouldn't work for you unless your timing was off...

[Selindrile]

My timing was the same as other three steps I had no issues with.
I remain skeptical until I can see someone produce it in game, on a video or in person.

[Nyarlko]

So, tested for recursion using skillchains w/ Selindrile witnessing (thanks again Sel! :D) but was unable to reproduce what I swear I've been seeing for the entire time that I've been back. ._.;; I'm chalking it up as senility on my part for now, and now it's going to bug me until I can prove to myself that it does not work, but oh well. ><;;

Correcting my prior chain:
Impaction > Liquefaction (T1 Liquefaction) > Scission (T1 Scission) > Detonation (T1 Detonation) > Compression (T2 Gravitation) > Distortion (T3 Darkness) = 1+2+2+2+5+15 = 27 spirit for 9500 gil, 3,704 chains, still ~32mil total catalyst cost.

Was thinking of what I said about crystal costs, so here's the additional info for the breakdowns I did earlier:

T1>T1(T2SC) = 10mil catalyst ~ 16,667 chains ~ 33,334 crystals
T1>T1(T2SC)>T2(T3SC) = 41mil catalyst ~ 4,762 chains ~ 14,286 crystals
T1>T1(T2SC)>T2(T3SC)>T3(T3SC) = 135mil catalyst ~ 2,778 chains ~ 11,112 crystals
T1>T1(T2SC)>T2(T2SC)>T2(T3SC)>T3(T3SC) = 138mil catalyst ~ 2,440 chains ~ 12,200 crystals
T3 > T3 = T3(T3SC) = 267mil catalyst ~ 3,334 chains ~ 6,668 crystals
My corrected 6-step = 32mil catalyst ~ 3,704 chains ~ 22,224 crystals

By current Asura avg price of 76.5k/stack for crystal clusters (so 532g/ea crystal), crystals are an additional 3.6mil-17.8mil IF you buy every crystal you use. Multiply that by 4x-5x to get the actual total crystal cost including crystals to desynth the Cards/Items while including breaks. Each crystal used above also corresponds to a sphere being used, so after working out crystal costs, my conclusions so far are:
* The simple T1>T1(T2SC)>T2(T3SC) model is actually the best value, as there's only a ~5mil projected difference in gil cost compared to my budget 6-step but a massive difference in crystal/sphere costs which would be a massive difference in time spent farming AND chaining.
*The 4-step is the most reasonable high-roller model to use if you have the extra 90-100mil to blow lying around which would buy you ~30% less farming time spent. Whether it's worth it or not depends on the new increased drop rates for those 6x items listed + drop rates on Cards + new quantities produced per desynth.
* Oh, and the 5-step is strictly worse than the 4-step, with higher overall costs all around. :x

[VoiceMemo]

So, tested for recursion using skillchains w/ Selindrile witnessing (thanks again Sel! :D) but was unable to reproduce what I swear I've been seeing for the entire time that I've been back. ._.;; I'm chalking it up as senility on my part for now, and now it's going to bug me until I can prove to myself that it does not work, but oh well. ><;;

Correcting my prior chain:
Impaction > Liquefaction (T1 Liquefaction) > Scission (T1 Scission) > Detonation (T1 Detonation) > Compression (T2 Gravitation) > Distortion (T3 Darkness) = 1+2+2+2+5+15 = 27 spirit for 9500 gil, 3,704 chains, still ~32mil total catalyst cost.

Was thinking of what I said about crystal costs, so here's the additional info for the breakdowns I did earlier:

T1>T1(T2SC) = 10mil catalyst ~ 16,667 chains ~ 33,334 crystals
T1>T1(T2SC)>T2(T3SC) = 41mil catalyst ~ 4,762 chains ~ 14,286 crystals
T1>T1(T2SC)>T2(T3SC)>T3(T3SC) = 135mil catalyst ~ 2,778 chains ~ 11,112 crystals
T1>T1(T2SC)>T2(T2SC)>T2(T3SC)>T3(T3SC) = 138mil catalyst ~ 2,440 chains ~ 12,200 crystals
T3 > T3 = T3(T3SC) = 267mil catalyst ~ 3,334 chains ~ 6,668 crystals
My corrected 6-step = 32mil catalyst ~ 3,704 chains ~ 22,224 crystals

By current Asura avg price of 76.5k/stack for crystal clusters (so 532g/ea crystal), crystals are an additional 3.6mil-17.8mil IF you buy every crystal you use. Multiply that by 4x-5x to get the actual total crystal cost including crystals to desynth the Cards/Items while including breaks. Each crystal used above also corresponds to a sphere being used, so after working out crystal costs, my conclusions so far are:
* The simple T1>T1(T2SC)>T2(T3SC) model is actually the best value, as there's only a ~5mil projected difference in gil cost compared to my budget 6-step but a massive difference in crystal/sphere costs which would be a massive difference in time spent farming AND chaining.
*The 4-step is the most reasonable high-roller model to use if you have the extra 90-100mil to blow lying around which would buy you ~30% less farming time spent. Whether it's worth it or not depends on the new increased drop rates for those 6x items listed + drop rates on Cards + new quantities produced per desynth.
* Oh, and the 5-step is strictly worse than the 4-step, with higher overall costs all around. :x


All these calculations assume ZERO breaks which is impossible, you will break some. So the projections are still low. It all depends what cards actually do in todays update. The cards may drastically change calculations.

[Halley]

If theyre seriously dumb enough to make stackable sphere cards with higher than 1% drop rate on things that aren't apex mobs (a lot of qualifiers there) shield becomes free. Catalyst is negligible if that happens.

[Nyarlko]

All these calculations assume ZERO breaks which is impossible, you will break some. So the projections are still low. It all depends what cards actually do in todays update. The cards may drastically change calculations.

OK, so if we're aiming for precision, my projections leave out breaks AND HQs. I don't have any idea on what either rate is, so I can't include them. Given that both break/HQ rates will be the same across paths for the most part (I think,) that only affects the final cost number and shouldn't skew any of the general trends among what I've laid out. If break rates change based on variables like step#, tier of sphere, tier of chain, etc., then I imagine that it would point us even more towards the lower cost, lower-tier focused options, like what I said earlier. Don't think I said anything about these being complete cost quotes. ^^;; Estimates are estimates, and can definitely be refined further. Everything I'm doing so far is already stated to be disregarding sphere cost in the base projections, (since we're talking about farming them ourselves and not buying,) so since I'm already assuming that sphere cost is 0g in the beginning, cards won't really affect that portion of the projections even if they crap out a stack of spheres per success. The only cost for spheres anywhere in my math is for the associated crystals used to desynth them and chain them.


If theyre seriously dumb enough to make stackable sphere cards with higher than 1% drop rate on things that aren't apex mobs (a lot of qualifiers there) shield becomes free. Catalyst is negligible if that happens.

I'm not sure that up to 267mil in catalyst costs alone (baseline, no HQs/breaks included) can be called "negligible" even if you're gilcapped. :|

[VoiceMemo]

OK, so if we're aiming for precision, my projections leave out breaks AND HQs. I don't have any idea on what either rate is, so I can't include them. Given that both break/HQ rates will be the same across paths for the most part (I think,) that only affects the final cost number and shouldn't skew any of the general trends among what I've laid out. If break rates change based on variables like step#, tier of sphere, tier of chain, etc., then I imagine that it would point us even more towards the lower cost, lower-tier focused options, like what I said earlier. Don't think I said anything about these being complete cost quotes. ^^;; Estimates are estimates, and can definitely be refined further. Everything I'm doing so far is already stated to be disregarding sphere cost in the base projections, (since we're talking about farming them ourselves and not buying,) so since I'm already assuming that sphere cost is 0g in the beginning, cards won't really affect that portion of the projections even if they crap out a stack of spheres per success. The only cost for spheres anywhere in my math is for the associated crystals used to desynth them and chain them.



I'm not sure that up to 267mil in catalyst costs alone (baseline, no HQs/breaks included) can be called "negligible" even if you're gilcapped. :|


That's why my estimation of 130m with 6 step skillchain(double light or dark) is likely more accurate since I do account for breaks and hqs in my data collection. I have the total spirit gained, divided by how many sets I've attempted, giving me the AVERAGE spirit/set, which I then use in the 100k spirit/average equation giving me the number of projected sets will take to complete. Based on the number of sets I then multiply by each catalyst cost giving me my 130m projection.

Cost wise yes likely T1 To T2 is best cost/set ratio, BUT that all depends on today's update. They really should give more spirit for the T4(dark/light) than normal, else there is no real incentive to do them.

Current ratios
T1s, account for 2.47% of total cost
T2s, account for 23.40% of total cost
and
T3s, account for 74.13% of total cost

so yes cost wise using only T1, T2s make sense, but I still have to make calculations on how many sets this would take by filtering my data without T3s.

I filtered my data with only T1 T2s and would take 4,688 sets at a total cost of around 50m.
So it is cheaper but it's 1,467 sets more. Total orb wise that's 19,326 orbs(6 step) vs 23,440 orbs(5 step)

[Nyarlko]

That's why my estimation of 130m with 6 step skillchain(double light or dark) is likely more accurate since I do account for breaks and hqs in my data collection. I have the total spirit gained, divided by how many sets I've attempted, giving me the AVERAGE spirit/set, which I then use in the 100k spirit/average equation giving me the number of projected sets will take to complete. Based on the number of sets I then multiply by each catalyst cost giving me my 130m projection.

Cost wise yes likely T1 To T2 is best cost/set ratio, BUT that all depends on today's update. They really should give more spirit for the T4(dark/light) than normal, else there is no real incentive to do them.

Current ratios
T1s, account for 2.47% of total cost
T2s, account for 23.40% of total cost
and
T3s, account for 74.13% of total cost

so yes cost wise using only T1, T2s make sense, but I still have to make calculations on how many sets this would take by filtering my data without T3s.

I filtered my data with only T1 T2s and would take 4,688 sets at a total cost of around 50m.
So it is cheaper but it's 1,467 sets more. Total orb wise that's 19,326 orbs(6 step) vs 23,440 orbs(5 step)

My numbers are intended as a baseline. Breaks will drive them up, HQs will drive them down, but until someone has a solid dataset per variable, I wouldn't want to try to shoehorn small dataset based guesstimates or wild assertions into them, which is the best I've encountered from others so far.. :/ With what you have recorded, can you be certain about the break rate for a T2-orb used as 1st, 3rd, or 5th? How about the HQ rate for a T3-orb used 3rd or 6th? Can we be certain that HQ/break rate(s) do or don't depend on any of the possible variables? Not being facetious btw. I'm saying that I want those answers before doing a flawed deep analysis vs working on a welldone baseline that still has declared undetermined variables. (I hope I'm not being confusing. ;;>_>)

There has been not a peep made pre-patch of any changes being made to spirit values, so I'm doubtful that'll happen today. T3 orbs have always felt to me like they're intended to be a "time shortcut for the rich" not required usage items.

[VoiceMemo]

Initial evaluation of the new cards for spheres is not promising, mobs take longer to kill, drop rate is low even with TH. Synth/Break/HQ rate seem about same, which means that the old items would still be better to farm for spheres/time.

Which means that it just will give those that bot another market to farm/exploit. As I predicted.

[Halley]

Initial evaluation of the new cards for spheres is not promising, mobs take longer to kill, drop rate is low even with TH. Synth/Break/HQ rate seem about same, which means that the old items would still be better to farm for spheres/time.

Which means that it just will give those that bot another market to farm/exploit. As I predicted.

Obviously.


If theyre seriously dumb enough to make stackable sphere cards with higher than 1% drop rate on things that aren't apex mobs (a lot of qualifiers there) shield becomes free.


stackable desynthable cards that bots can go bananas on.

[VoiceMemo]

Once one bot is gone from P mines, another appears, likely same person with another bought account. There is no way to win, the cards take longer to farm, have about same break rate, so spheres/time is less. SE please consider making cards create 2 spheres at least instead of 1 per synth.

PLEASE SE PLEASE I'm BEGGING YOU BAN BOTS FASTER. I'm on the verge of retiring from the game over this.

[Lunatone]

Waiting on Nya's ban theory.

[Halley]

I'm on the verge of retiring from the game over this.

No you aren't, quit being dramatic.


Waiting on Nya's ban theory.

You'll be *waiting* for months.

Not going to start a ban wave until they can take away a good 100 shields.

[Justuas]

Saw a long time rmt-player selling 2 accounts with the final Escutcheon shield 10,000$ each. I can bet the rmt are bot-farming the shield.

[Dzspdref]

Well the cards are a LOT rarer to drop than expected.
I was in Moh Gates Map#2 on the VT+ mobs and after 250+ kills with my THF99 with TH+9 in gear (which caps at +8 for gear, I know), I got ZERO CARDS to drop.
That was also using Aldo and Nanaa Mihgo in trusts for 2 more TH help.
Watching other people killing same exact groups of targets and telling me they are getting cards to drop about 1 out of every 4 or so kills.
Either my character is blacklisted against card drops (got every other possible item those targets could drop), or there's something VERY wrong with the drop rates.
SE, you really screwed the poop on this one. You need to open up the available drop rate, or make more targets viable options.
Want to get rid of the bots? Make spheres /ex too. Can't sell what cannot be sold and only used by the owner or /tossed. Already they cannot be NPC'ed, just add on "cannot sell". Period.

[Sirmarki]

Watching other people killing same exact groups of targets and telling me they are getting cards to drop about 1 out of every 4 or so kills.
Either my character is blacklisted against card drops (got every other possible item those targets could drop), or there's something VERY wrong with the drop rates.

..Or.... They are lying to you!?

[Halley]

Well the cards are a LOT rarer to drop than expected.
I was in Moh Gates Map#2 on the VT+ mobs and after 250+ kills with my THF99 with TH+9 in gear (which caps at +8 for gear, I know), I got ZERO CARDS to drop.
That was also using Aldo and Nanaa Mihgo in trusts for 2 more TH help.
Watching other people killing same exact groups of targets and telling me they are getting cards to drop about 1 out of every 4 or so kills.
Either my character is blacklisted against card drops (got every other possible item those targets could drop), or there's something VERY wrong with the drop rates.
SE, you really screwed the poop on this one. You need to open up the available drop rate, or make more targets viable options.
Want to get rid of the bots? Make spheres /ex too. Can't sell what cannot be sold and only used by the owner or /tossed. Already they cannot be NPC'ed, just add on "cannot sell". Period.

not ALL mobs drop cards. lol. you wasted so much time killing the wrong things. Drop rate is about 20%

#rekt

[Dzspdref]

not ALL mobs drop cards. lol. you wasted so much time killing the wrong things. Drop rate is about 20%

#rekt

i know not all "mobs" drop cards. I was killing EXACT same targets others were killing and watching them synth into spheres as examples.
I know this because i saw them losing cards in my chat log during their failed synths, too.
I wouldn't have posted what I put if I hadn't had personally viewed/verified my info first.
So no, I didn't "waste my time", I am just damn unlucky for drops it seems.
Thank you for the response.

[Nyarlko]

i know not all "mobs" drop cards. I was killing EXACT same targets others were killing and watching them synth into spheres as examples.
I know this because i saw them losing cards in my chat log during their failed synths, too.
I wouldn't have posted what I put if I hadn't had personally viewed/verified my info first.
So no, I didn't "waste my time", I am just damn unlucky for drops it seems.
Thank you for the response.

Maybe group size can affect drops in some way? Drag along a buddy and kill 10 things.

Treasure Hunter: The only cap from gear is "one less than total cap minus traits", which would be TH13 total (aka TH+10 from gear,) for a mastered THF.. Last official word is that equal/greater current TH prevents the proc rate from decreasing, so +14 or above should be overcap and effectively give zero benefit. I have seen TH14 proc before, (about 3x in the last year!) so I know it exists. However, even as a THF, I doubt that 13/14 have that much actual impact except on drops w/ seemingly infinitesimal drop rates to begin with. It's rather rare to find anything that will live long enough for the proc system to make it all the way up too. :/

Also, I'm pretty sure that the odds are probably better to win a PowerBall jackpot than for a TH1-3 trust to bump proc up to TH14 from TH13. :x


**Dev Note: Raise Treasure Hunter base proc rate, even if only for 12-14! Especially for job master, this needs to happen! Also, updated official word on Treasure Hunter mechanics would be much appreciated.

[Mithlas]

...updated official word on Treasure Hunter mechanics would be much appreciated.

This x1000000000000.

[VoiceMemo]

Update notes said

The drop rates of the following items have been increased

Carbuncle’s Ruby / Elshimo Marble / Shoalweed / Desert Venom / Bruised Starfruit / Lucky Egg

I tested Elshimo marble and if this was increased, it wasn't by much, maybe 1% better with TH8+. This doesn't really help the creation of spheres SE.

To make other areas viable for sphere farmers, drop rate has to be at least as good as palborough mines.

[Nyarlko]

Update notes said

The drop rates of the following items have been increased

Carbuncle’s Ruby / Elshimo Marble / Shoalweed / Desert Venom / Bruised Starfruit / Lucky Egg

I tested Elshimo marble and if this was increased, it wasn't by much, maybe 1% better with TH8+. This doesn't really help the creation of spheres SE.

To make other areas viable for sphere farmers, drop rate has to be at least as good as palborough mines.

Now takes me ~3-7x kills to get a Carbuncle's Ruby rather than the ~5-10x kills that it used to take on Buburimu beaches. (JM THF w/ TH+10, rarely goes above 9.)
Try testing that instead maybe? It's possible that the increases differ by item.

[VoiceMemo]

I don't need carbuncle's ruby desynth, produces transfixtion, fusion, or light. Out of that only thing I use is Light in my skillchain paths, so it would not be efficient for me.

[Nyarlko]

I don't need carbuncle's ruby desynth, produces transfixtion, fusion, or light. Out of that only thing I use is Light in my skillchain paths, so it would not be efficient for me.

Given how the supply of sphere material was just vastly increased, I don't think it would be that hard to find another player or two to trade spheres with. Might be worthwhile farming the ones you don't need if you can get them faster and trade for the ones you do need?

I really need to unlazy, farm up a couple hundred thousand crystals and polish off the percentage on mine so I can participate in the sphere-based madness myself(s) ~_~

[VoiceMemo]

Given how the supply of sphere material was just vastly increased, I don't think it would be that hard to find another player or two to trade spheres with. Might be worthwhile farming the ones you don't need if you can get them faster and trade for the ones you do need?

I really need to unlazy, farm up a couple hundred thousand crystals and polish off the percentage on mine so I can participate in the sphere-based madness myself(s) ~_~

No one seems wanting to trade. I've yelled a few times to try to trade my fusion spheres away for light or dark spheres at 2:1 ratio, which is about what the gil cost is, but not one tell. I think majority of the people farming spheres are trying to SELL them. There are so many in bazzar near the focalizer. Not many people are trying to make the shield legit without botting.

[Dzspdref]

The only ones i use atm are Induration, Reverberation, Distortion, Gravitation, Fusion, Light, Dark. Any others I have "stored" on my machine but I never use really. Even then I rarely use the dark ones. I might be pawning off them to you two (Nyarlko & Voicememo) just to clear out what I am not using, especially after I finish my Apex Crystal.

[VoiceMemo]

IDK about you danallen but my estimation based on farming spheres every day, and synthing 10x 6 step skillchains a day will take me approximately 340 or so more days to complete.

[Halley]

IDK about you danallen but my estimation based on farming spheres every day, and synthing 10x 6 step skillchains a day will take me approximately 340 or so more days to complete.

Better start buyin that shit if you're seriously making it.

[VoiceMemo]

Why do I need to buy? I can synth them myself and do little per day, eventually will finish, what's the rush? Is it not the journey that counts, I finished all my other in game goals using this method and it gives me something to do.

If I buy, finish it then what? I just stand around game doing nothing.

[Halley]

You finish it so you can actually use it.

Before 2000 other people do making it literally useless.

[Nyarlko]

You finish it so you can actually use it.

Before 2000 other people do making it literally useless.

A completed Escutcheon will function identically whether you finish it tomorrow, or next year. Even if 2000 other people have one, it does not actually cut down on how useful it is, only how much initial profit you will be looking at. "Profitability" does not equal "usefulness". ^^ (That is excluding the silliness of expecting 2000 people to be playing this game on any server but Asura at this point. lol)

[Dzspdref]

IDK about you danallen but my estimation based on farming spheres every day, and synthing 10x 6 step skillchains a day will take me approximately 340 or so more days to complete.

...which also goes to our point of HOW did some people complete their shield in less than a few weeks, and even note that some even did MULTIPLE shields in that time? There's is something perplexingly (is that a word?) wrong about that in my opinion...

[Nyarlko]

...which also goes to our point of HOW did some people complete their shield in less than a few weeks, and even note that some even did MULTIPLE shields in that time? There's is something perplexingly (is that a word?) wrong about that in my opinion...

"Perplexingly" is indeed a word, and was used correctly in your sentence.
Should've been "There's something..." or "There is something..." though. "There's is something.." is "There is is something.." XD

I kinda figure that those who finished early are those who 3box+ to ensure that the spheres kept flowing thru a multi-character supplychain while their mains continuously craft-chain in town. Plus were willing to throw many extra dollars at SE to enable them to server-hop all over and buy up all the available spheres regardless of the costs involved in doing so.

Before anyone complains about multiboxing=botting again, I know from personal experience that it's quite possible to handle up to 6box manually w/ proper hardware setup, game macros, and practice. LOTS of practice.. ^^;; Not too many people are going to have the desire/funds/space to setup 6x computers to use at the same time though, so it's rather unlikely to take it that far, but 2-3boxing is easy to accomplish successfully without cheating in the slightest.

[VoiceMemo]

Better start buyin that shit if you're seriously making it.

And if you are sooo concerned about my progress on shield, you are welcome to make/buy spheres and give them to me.

[Halley]

I mean why would I help you make it when you said you're quitting due to the way the update made spheres.

[VoiceMemo]

I mean why would I help you make it when you said you're quitting due to the way the update made spheres.

I said no such thing, I said "PLEASE SE PLEASE I'm BEGGING YOU BAN BOTS FASTER. I'm on the verge of retiring from the game over this. "

It's the BOTS not the cards that were added that were making me want to quit.

[Lunatone]

A completed Escutcheon will function identically whether you finish it tomorrow, or next year. Even if 2000 other people have one, it does not actually cut down on how useful it is, only how much initial profit you will be looking at. "Profitability" does not equal "usefulness". ^^ (That is excluding the silliness of expecting 2000 people to be playing this game on any server but Asura at this point. lol)


Again if you really think there were enough spheres on the AH within that first month to even fund maybe 1 shield I really dont know where your head is. No matter what you are telling yourself or saying the only people who finished the shields that first month were botting 24/7 w/ 0 competition. Only reason it slowed down is because there was/is competition

[VoiceMemo]

Bots still present in P mines. Since crafter keeps changing but farming bot stays the same I'm guessing a team of RMT. But alas seem se cares for the money rather than abide by the rules they have set forth for players. They prefer gilseller money over a 12 year + loyal player who plays on vanilla FFXI.

[Sirmarki]

Bots still present in P mines. Since crafter keeps changing but farming bot stays the same I'm guessing a team of RMT. But alas seem se cares for the money rather than abide by the rules they have set forth for players. They prefer gilseller money over a 12 year + loyal player who plays on vanilla FFXI.

Sadly they appear to be everywhere. I have crossed various zones over the last couple of days and seen it practically around every corner. Set path, killing mobs, set weapon skills and abnormal movement.
I'm getting pretty bored of filling out STFU forms.

[VoiceMemo]

Anyone want to team up daily at around 5am eastern time to farm p mines and beat the bots? equal split of spheres produced.

[Nyarlko]

Hope is not lost, Fujito just posted a rather long letter about botters/cheaters. ^^
Here's the unedited GTrans version, with the only changes being me re-adding the links which get lost in copy/paste.



Hello.

Thank you for always writing information on BOT and cheating, opinions.
I am looking forward to seeing you, but I have decided to refrain from comments because the subject to deal with is delicate data.

However, on the other hand, since comments including misunderstandings that the management side is not dealt with correctly were seen,
again, in order to correctly tell the stance as "Final Fantasy XI" and the current situation of the effort, a
special task force (hereinafter referred to as " STF), we will issue the following comments.

Although it is a long post reading it is a serious posting, it is important, so please read it carefully and be appreciated if you can understand it.

As for this thread
, I am sorry, but I will close it because the reporting route is gathered in the original report form, and a situation where misunderstandings are getting misunderstanding is coming.


■ About cheat act · stance on BOT acts As
also stated in the usage agreement, cheat acts and BOT acts are clearly prohibited in "Final Fantasy XI".
If the action is confirmed, measures will be taken to suspend temporary use of the account or to suspend permanent use.
This stance will not change consistently from the beginning of the service of "Final Fantasy XI".


■ Activities of STF STF is a unit that expertly deals with and deals with organizational activities,
such as Real Money Trade (RMT), cheat acts leading to it, and BOT acts
that adversely affect the game.

The crackdown on STF is roughly divided into a survey conducted by analyzing a log (information recorded in detail of character's behavior) and a survey
that logs into the game and actually monitors the behavior of the character while hidden We are.

Inspection by logs has the advantage that information can be obtained in bird's-eye view across multiple world areas,
but the amount of information is enormous, correspondingly, it takes time to refine and scrutinize.
Investigation in the game is advantageous in that it is possible to grasp "what is going on right now" more than the log rather than the log,
but since it takes a lot of human effort, the range that can be checked at one time is limited .
In the actual survey,
regulations will be promoted by combining the advantages of each method, identifying the problem areas (such as area and character behavior) in the game, and logging them one-shot.


■ Please report!
A report from you is very helpful to quickly detect the problems occurring in the game and increase the initial speed of the investigation. Thank you very much.
We are committed to endeavoring to preclude valuable information we receive earlier, so please continue your continued cooperation. Please use the form of " Report to Special Task Force (http://support.jp.square-enix.com/contacttop.php?id=11&la=0)

" for reporting . Since the STF staff is directly looking through this window, we can deliver information reliably at the earliest possible time, and it is in a format that can describe information necessary for investigation without leakage.



There are a lot of reports that we have on the forums that we do not have all the necessary information for investigation.
For example, a report saying "There are lots of BOTs in the world," the seriousness is very transmitted,
but it can not be fully utilized as information to solve the problem.
Also, it is not recommended from the viewpoint of privacy to post the name of the reporter's character in an unspecified number of forums to be viewed.
In some cases posts may be deleted according to the forum guidelines, so please summarize the report in a special form.

※ For information on STF activities, please also refer to the following pages.
Monthly handling account number and frozen gill amount history (http://www.playonline.com/ff11/rule/specialtask.html#_ga=2.218939102.615352970.1527668754-390756770.1518009277)
Opinions and requests for STF (https://support.jp.square-enix.com/form.php?fo=7&id=11&la=0&p=0)

* All URLs can be traced from "Rules & Manners" on the left of the official page. These incorrect actions that are


not easily dealt with while reporting
should adversely affect the game, so it should be dealt with promptly.
On the other hand, in strict response to the suspension of account suspension, with careful judgment
, I hope you understand that you need to spend enough time.

Even in cases where it is said that it is obvious, not to judge, it is not judged by deemedisation, and
the fact is checked by checking actions one by one. Although it is a rare case, the following is an example of the survey results actually found.

Report: There are 18 BOTs who have party with anon in one area
Certainly up to 17 people used BOT but only one was an unrelated player.
I was invited by a party silently when I was there but it was a case that I was acting differently.
※ It is not based on talk but it is based on the result of follow-up survey by log.
Report: RMT trader character with appropriate name is exhibiting extensively at auction
It was a second character specialized in loot and material selling.
Because it does not play on the main, the character name is often appropriate.
Second characters are often not raised compared to the main character, there are times when you are
watching a play style that repeats monotonous work or a long time bazaar.
BOT and cheat are often active in groups, and related characters are also present in other area / world.
I will refrain from explaining how the police are being specifically enforced because it will spur a giant,
but take time to avoid missing other people while dealing with a corner of the iceberg We are addressing all at once.


■
In the past I have not had much opportunity to touch the STF as much as possible in order to prevent giving information to the outside as much as
possible, but in response to the opinion that "the achievement of the activity can not be felt " I commented on the current activities.
The crackdown on fraud is a long-standing event and it is a project that can not be resolved overnight, but the attitude towards fraud by
encouraging players to enjoy "Final Fantasy XI" comfortably
is the 16th anniversary It is a part that has not changed all the time now.
We will continue our efforts to respond to your requests, so please continue your favors toward the future.

[Minamikun]

Well they closed the thread on Japanese Forum... They don’t want people to discuss about cheater/botter on the forum.

[Nyarlko]

Well they closed the thread on Japanese Forum... They don’t want people to discuss about cheater/botter on the forum.

They want people to use the proper forms and templates and methods to make reports. They closed that thread because they wanted to prevent anyone from doing otherwise.

[Justuas]

Anyone want to team up daily at around 5am eastern time to farm p mines and beat the bots? equal split of spheres produced.

Oh man how did I miss this. If only I was working on the shield, I'd join you in a second.

[VoiceMemo]

July will bring along with it Wave 3 for all Dynamis – Divergence areas.
Other additions include new synthesis recipes for those in possession of aurum tome key items and the monthly updates to Ambuscade.


Well, guess the cheaters will get richer off their illgotten gains.

[Halley]

Well, guess the cheaters will get richer off their illgotten gains.

Huh, who would've thought games are more like real life than fantasy.
Crazy, right?

[VoiceMemo]

I've been waiting months for bots to get banned for farming spheres, not ONE has been banned yet. And now when I search for all farming locations for spheres I see bots everywhere.

SE do you really not care about the Terms of Service that you have set and just care about money from subscriptions now?

If this is so please change the terms of service and say 3rd program party use is allowed, because this is essentially what you are doing by turning a blind eye to the massive issue of bots killing mobs for items to desynth to spheres, and the cheaters profiting off their illgotten gains.

I'm really considering retiring from game if this continues because the T4 shield is one of 2 things left in the game for me. I don't mind competition between other REAL players, but to fight bots daily is not what I want to do.

[Sirmarki]

I've been waiting months for bots to get banned for farming spheres, not ONE has been banned yet. And now when I search for all farming locations for spheres I see bots everywhere.

SE do you really not care about the Terms of Service that you have set and just care about money from subscriptions now?

If this is so please change the terms of service and say 3rd program party use is allowed, because this is essentially what you are doing by turning a blind eye to the massive issue of bots killing mobs for items to desynth to spheres, and the cheaters profiting off their illgotten gains.

I'm really considering retiring from game if this continues because the T4 shield is one of 2 things left in the game for me. I don't mind competition between other REAL players, but to fight bots daily is not what I want to do.

I think it's too out of control now. I have yet to see any evidence of removal of the typical offenders, and I'm not just referring to shield makers.
It doesn't take long to stand there in Palborough Mines to see that these people are clearly cheating, and these players simply don't care.

I'm starting to to feel the same, as is a friend of mine.
It's a two teir game, with some players playing vanilla FFXI, and others playing with third party software.
It's essentially saying some players are driving go-karts following the speed limit, and others are driving sports cars at unchecked speeds.

We know a huge majority of people are using 'non-standard' versions of FFXI now. This is publicly evident on the likes of Youtube and Twitter with players streaming. Players using various add-ons/plugins to give them an advantage over the people who use the 'legitimate way' of playing 'out of the box' FFXI.

How does SE deal with it? It's tough, because its gone too far now, as I said above. Something needs to be done though, as it's like the wildwest out there. I also wish there was some kind of moderation on the /yell system, just as there is on these forums.

[Dzspdref]

As I said before, make the spheres /ex. You CANNOT sell them.
You either make them to use, or nothing at all.
That would kill every single sphere synthing 'bot out there (although groups of real players teaming up would not be affected, although they couldn't make any gil from it and ONLY the person that can make/use spheres would benefit... at first)
If this is done, then every single /yell for "I sell spheres cheapest!"... or anyone farming them for resale would get turned off. Instantly. And those trying to make a shield would have much less competition for targets, alleviating all "legal" players' problems.
And for those saying "Oh you can't change them to /ex, it's too difficult in programming"... sorry it is not difficult at all. Remember how hard it was for them to make rare/ex items only rare, or even stackable and not rare now too? Literal flip of a switch.
And for the rest saying "Then how am I going to make all my gil I want to make?".... Easy; go do something else. Plenty of ways to make gil nowadays it's sickening, because it now makes things just waaaay too overpriced too.
Remember when 1~2 million was a godly amount of gil? I went thru my first 10+ years of playing and NEVER had more than 250,000 gil at a time and survived just well. Might have hit 350~400k once or so, but spent it on items so i could enjoy the game or level my crafting.

[Isola]

For all the gigantic obvious mistakes they make trying to keep this game going, spheres being sellable was one of the largest.

The entirety of the shields, from the very start, all the way to the end.

Maybe even crafting in general, tbqh.

[VoiceMemo]

At this point I'd welcome what they did to chocobo digging/fishing. Implement a limit of the amount of spheres you can produce per day. Since only a person with T3 shield can produce them that would limit the amount people can farm in any zone.

[Justuas]

As I said before, make the spheres /ex. You CANNOT sell them.

Can you make synthesis stuff /ex?

[Isola]

Can you make synthesis stuff /ex?

The cards they made to turn into spheres are EX, half the items that turn into spheres are ex too

[Dzspdref]

The cards they made to turn into spheres are EX, half the items that turn into spheres are ex too

Sad thing about that is the card drop rate and synth rates are horrendous for time spent compared to non-card target item recipe drops.
Friend and I farmed the cards off efts/leeches for nearly 3 hrs on THF x2 with base TH8 each and we each can proc up to TH13.
Killed nearly 400+ targets, got only ~50 cards (so ~12% drop rate).
From those ~50 cards using success rate food and gears, I got only 13 spheres (Guessing ~25% success rate).
Not liking the fact to get enough spheres via cards you'll have to kill nearly 1,680,000+ targets to get enough spheres to "possibly" complete shield.
Even still with just regular sphere recipes, makes me want to know HOW some people have now gotten 6~8 shield fully completed in less than 2 months.
Not allowed to post names here, but I know of one person on Asura that has done that, plus few others that have more than one, having most likely bot-farmed them all.
There MUST be some synergy recipe they used on the Focuser II we haven't figured out yet.
My best is ~45 spirit for T3 using light sphere ... that's IF i get some HQs.

[orionis]

Not allowed to post names here, but I know of one person on Asura that has done that, plus few others that have more than one, having most likely bot-farmed them all.

.. How sly of them..

[gobby]

Hi I just wanted to add my two cents (I don't normally post on the forums).

I think what Nyarlko said is pretty disgusting. Everyone else I've read I totally agree with, and I am kind of shocked that the person in question thinks that there is no issue. I started a new character in FF11 recently even though I've been playing for over 15 years, and yes, the bots, RMT's or whoever they are, are running rampant in almost every old zone of the video game. It makes it difficult to do the quests, missions and obtain key items in order to progress because of them, not to mention getting that new shield people are talking about. And as for Nyarlko, really? that's your answer? "if you can't beat em join, em?" I mean you gloated about actually making bot accounts, and on this official FF11 forum no less. Unbelievable. And yes, it does matter to everyone playing; we are paying customers who want to have fun and enjoy a fair game, and I think it's pretty crappy that Square is letting this happen.

[VoiceMemo]

Whatever is done, SOMETHING NEEDS to be done. The way it is can't stay, the bots running rampant.

[Isola]

Every single time they let it escalate further than last time.

They took way too long on salvage bans. They took way too long on CP bots. They've taken way to long this time.

[VoiceMemo]

There are so many bots, to report them daily and not have any action done takes up alot of time too, less I make a template and just keep sending that over and over

[Justuas]

There are so many bots, to report them daily and not have any action done takes up alot of time too, less I make a template and just keep sending that over and over

I vote for a public template since most of the bots behave similarly I assume. Easier and faster to just fill the names.

[VoiceMemo]

I don't mind reporting IF something is actually done about them. But to keep using up my time reporting them, when I could be doing other stuff in game, and not seeing any results seems like a waste of time for me. That it's not taken seriously that it just goes into the email system and then directly into the trash.

I would prefer on the GM call for the GM to actually appear and witness it, much like they did years ago when there was massive fish bot issue. Even if they can't do the banning at least then they have witnessed it and make their report to the special task force. In this sense I would see at least some work being done for my efforts of reporting 3rd party program use.

[VoiceMemo]

I again promote SE to do what they did to chocobo digging/fishing. Implement a limit of the amount of spheres you can produce per day. Since only a person with T3 shield can produce them that would limit the amount people can farm in any zone.

[Isola]

That accomplishes absolutely nothing. Put a limit on it, just make more accounts. Nothing changed.

It can't be any easier. Make them exclusive. Period. That is the only solution.

[VoiceMemo]

That accomplishes absolutely nothing. Put a limit on it, just make more accounts. Nothing changed.

It can't be any easier. Make them exclusive. Period. That is the only solution.

It would make a difference since to synth spheres you MUST be 110 of a craft and have T3 shield complete. They can't complete these tasks that fast, so it would limit them.

[Isola]

It takes less than a day to 110 a craft and work a shield up. You're only limited about 25~ days on guild points.

or, they start buying t3 shield accounts

or, they start mercing bot-services farming the drops and showing shield owners how to craftafk.

Don't fool yourself into thinking anything will realistically solve this problem. And it does nothing about the 100 already made shields.

[VoiceMemo]

Making all spheres ex is unlike how SE has handled things in the past. They have imposed limits, which is why I think the more realistic fix, even if it's just for 25 days would be to limit the amount of spheres you could produce per day.

Since SE seems unwilling to ban those that are cheating and they just want the money at least this option would give legit players a fighting chance versus the bots.

[Justuas]

Kinda off-topic but was farming a lottery spawn nm for trials and there was a farming bot camping it too. The bot was speedhacking and clipping thro the obstacles. Called a gm and the response was an automated msg to contact to STF. It's sad what this game has become.

[orionis]

Kinda off-topic but was farming a lottery spawn nm for trials and there was a farming bot camping it too. The bot was speedhacking and clipping thro the obstacles. Called a gm and the response was an automated msg to contact to STF. It's sad what this game has become.

As they saying goes in the case of the playerbase "You reap what you sow".

People using third party programs and so called 'plugins' opened up the gateway to a mass of cheaters.

I'm not saying everyone uses such programs, but by the looks of it, judging by public videos on the various streaming platforms - The majority do.

[VoiceMemo]

Still waiting on SE to do something about the cheaters in palborough mines. They continuously automated bot farm quadravs for fetich items, which they then use automation to desynth to spheres. I have reported them to the Special Task Force for months, yet nothing is done. Either ban them or alter your rules SE to allow 3rd party program use for all.

[VoiceMemo]

Botting is completely out of control SE, if you serach and monitor any of the zones that have genkai 50 items you'll see the same people there for hours on end. If you just monitor time/movement you can tell that it is automation because NO one can stay up for 24hrs straight constantly moving.

Please please SE prioritize the special task force to combat cheaters. Work on this BEFORE any other update, this is of great importance, the cheaters are ruining the game.

[Isola]

The dragoon bot army is pretty ridiculous too... it's not sphere botting, but holy cow. Gustav pling while clipped oob then 40 dragoons show up in adoulin.

[Sirmarki]

The dragoon bot army is pretty ridiculous too... it's not sphere botting, but holy cow. Gustav pling while clipped oob then 40 dragoons show up in adoulin.

Are these the ones that were 'stuck in the wall' the other day?

[Isola]

Yup. Shameless. /sea yahse + ceizak

[orionis]

It's because of the harmless third party programs that their are still people joining or resubbing take it away will cause some of the player base to leave.

On a serious note....

Shut up.

[VoiceMemo]

Went to crawlers nest today, totally bot farmed. Something really needs to be done SE, please follow the rules you have set out that DO NOT allow 3rd party programs. Turning a blind eye to this much cheating is basically saying use any 3rd party you want. People talk about 3rd party in yells and say openly, bring back the days when this was a violation. Put some teeth on your rules, else no one will follow them, which is basically whats occurring now. The cheaters have no fear of being banned.

[Sirmarki]

Yup. Shameless. /sea yahse + ceizak

Out of curiosity I went to have a look in those areas. There were well over 40 or so in both the areas combined. All of which seem to be using some kind of scripted movement/WS, and movement speed+ .. Mostly all the same gear, with keyboard smashed names.

I believe SE need to get 'some men on the ground' with this one. There is no way I'm going to fill out STF form that many times, especially seeing as my previous reports have been an epic fail.

[Sirmarki]

Went to crawlers nest today, totally bot farmed. Something really needs to be done SE, please follow the rules you have set out that DO NOT allow 3rd party programs. Turning a blind eye to this much cheating is basically saying use any 3rd party you want. People talk about 3rd party in yells and say openly, bring back the days when this was a violation. Put some teeth on your rules, else no one will follow them, which is basically whats occurring now. The cheaters have no fear of being banned.

Advertising PL services is against the rules too...

But yeh, I think the terms are in need of revision. As well as the 'bug report' form.

[Nyarlko]

Advertising PL services is against the rules too...

But yeh, I think the terms are in need of revision. As well as the 'bug report' form.

I don't think that PL services are against TOS.. Probably falls under the same ruling as merc services, which are approved as a RP element. (Since you are "role playing" as mercenaries.) >_>

[Sirmarki]

I don't think that PL services are against TOS.. Probably falls under the same ruling as merc services, which are approved as a RP element. (Since you are "role playing" as mercenaries.) >_>

https://i.imgur.com/8VOyhy2.gif

[Dzspdref]

https://i.imgur.com/8VOyhy2.gif

The one just two above that with " ... deprives other players of the chance to play the game." also constitutes the reporting of bot's which deny others the chance to farm and play the game, since they monopolize pops and items for everyone to use.

[Nyarlko]

OK. I'm pretty sure that is actually referring to the RMT practice of a player paying real money to have someone else either play the game for them, or kill things in a party with them... I don't think that the listed entry applies when it's gil changing hands instead of real money. Keep in mind that it's been darn near impossible to MPK for many years, yet that is still on the list. Could be just yet one more thing that has never been updated by SE. (I ran into SE payment option docs today that have an option listed that's been out of business since 2010 I think...)

I'm actually on hold w/ the customer service phone line right now for something completely unrelated, but I'll ask them for clarification if I ever make it past the eternal ringing... 34min and counting so far... @_@

EDIT: Only took a 45:02 before a real person picked up, got my questions answered, AND got yours answered too. XD That line that you are referencing IS specifically about the RMT practice of paying someone else real money to level your character for you, but there is nothing officially wrong with doing so for in-game currency of any sort (as long as real money is not involved in any way in relation to the transaction.)

They also noted my ticket that I requested an update to the documentation available to us and increased representation on these forums. Not holding my breath, but hey, maybe? ^^;;;

[VoiceMemo]

I had a good talk with a GM today and was able to give names and locations of players using automation to farm items to desynth to spheres. He said would pass it onto special task force and to post here for feedback on rules, policies or services so here I am posted.

I thank the GM for his good service(I'm not posting name less asked).

Feedback I have for SE is please enforce the rules you have set out. Farming bots are running rampant on asura, because they haven't been banned. Akin to the rule set have no teeth, people are botting without worry that they maybe banned.

The automated farming bots hurt those like myself that are trying to work on our T4 crafting shields. All locations of non cards are farmed by bots.

The only other solution to the problem is increasing the drop rate of cards and reducing their break rate.
Because of the fact the drop rate is low and the break rate seems about same as other non card items(which have higher drop rate), IE fetich items, this is why most just farm the older items and not the cards. The end yield result of the spheres is greater and more time efficient.

[VoiceMemo]

Went to crawlers nest today to farm exoray molds to desynth for spheres and there were 17, 17! bots there. SE PLEASE PLEASE do something about this. Don't work on updates till you get the botting cheaters under control. This should be your highest priority. Or just change your Terms of Service to allow 3rd party programs, as that's essentially what you are doing by turning a blind eye to these cheaters. I've reported automated farming bots for months, yet they are still here. I report them every time to the Special Task Force and call a GM as well, yet nothing seems to be done. That all my emails just go directly to the trash bin and I get automated responses by GM that they know about the botting issue. If they know about it, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

Non action shows that the Terms of Service agreement has no teeth. That it's not enforced and just there for legality. IF you really care to abide by the Terms of Service that YOU(SE) has set out then fix this issue, else change the terms of service and say 3rd party use is fine.

[Isola]

Holy crap. That. Is bananas. I didn't believe you. There are not 8 different camps that bots can use. This means they are botting on top of each other ffs. There really is 17 anon bots in the nest. Motherofgod.jpeg

Also; 11 in the necropolis, 11 in the citadel, 7 in palborough,

[Sirmarki]

Went to crawlers nest today to farm exoray molds to desynth for spheres and there were 17, 17! bots there.

I think we can establish that there are only a handful of players behind all this, and I think I know how they are getting around it. Seeing as some of them have been there for in the region of 6~8months.
It's easy to see that they are using automation, the distinctive/fixed movement pattern gives it away.

However, I think who ever is behind it is probably using some kind of response tool, or alert system if they get a tell. This in turn makes it look like they are actually there at their computer, which means it appears not automated.

I personally believe that if time was spent looking at the logs of these players then the evidence would be there, but that's the problem, it would take a lot of time and resources. In the meantime, more and more of them appear, which adds to the problem.

[Nyarlko]

The best solution overall regarding the issues created by the bots (not the bots themselves, since it IS taking forever for SE to actually do anything noticeable from our end,) would be to increase the break rate on the low level desynth items and decrease the break rate on stuff from 75+ content and especially cards. Make it amazingly unprofitable to farm the lower level stuff (particularly mandatory items for missions and level breaks,) then funnel all the cheaters into specific small corners of Vana'diel. I know that this would basically be sweeping the garbage under the rug, and the STF would still have their work cut out sorting out who's botting and who's a legit player among farmers, but at least it would no longer be a ragequit inducing situation for NEW players who are currently getting totally walled off from basic gameplay progress that is MANDATORY for every character that actually gets played.

It's not just shield farmers btw.. Exp/CP farming bots have also gotten out of hand. There are many obvious and blatant botters in Escha-Zi'tah that make it difficult to keep exp chains going for those who are actively playing the game for example..

[Isola]

On paper, the idea to turn useless items into spheres was a great solution to a nonexistent problem.

Problem with solving a problem that isn't a problem, is it creates a problem. All those items should just be removed from sphere synthesis. It's so simple, but they've let it go for so long. I really don't see what excuse they have for letting this go like this. They just straight up Do. Not. Care. It's crazy.

Putting cards on mobs that are basically never killed was a good idea. Break rate and drop rate are way to low though. So many easy solutions to this. instead of making another mount. spend that month fixing shields.

[VoiceMemo]

Now 23 bots in crawler's nest, and they logged in pretty much when servers came online. Normally it's free for an hour or 2, but not anymore.

PLEASE PLEASE SE, why are you penalizing those of us who are abiding by your terms of service and following the rules? Do you really mean that I have to give up my values and cheat along with them? Is that what you are saying. Or are you saying if you can't do it legitimately that I should quit?

[VoiceMemo]

SE if you really don't want to ban the cheaters because of loss of subscription fees, I call for either

1) Increase of drop rate of EX cards that desynth to spheres and the decrease in their break rate or increase in hq rate.
or
2) Implement limits like you did for fishing, limit 200 spheres that can be made by a ki holder PER day.

[VoiceMemo]

Still waiting for an official response from SE on this issue.

[Sirmarki]

Still waiting for an official response from SE on this issue.

It's been going on far too long, it's beyond the point of no return now. These bots have been running around freely for a year or so.

[Isola]

lol. a year or so. Maybe thats when you noticed it. it was a problem before shields and this specifically since the very first minute spheres were introduced.

Noticeably a problem since march 2014. (job points introduction) Obviously existed before that too but thats the point when it became blatant.

[Sirmarki]

lol. a year or so. Maybe thats when you noticed it.

Indeed. I'm just going by the same names that I've seen in a certain zone who run around in that same pattern, and seemly have never left that zone..

[VoiceMemo]

I post again my solution to the issue, if don't want to ban because of loss of subscription fee:

Either:

1) Increase of drop rate of EX cards that desynth to spheres and the decrease in their break rate or increase in hq rate.
or
2) Implement limits like you did for fishing, limit 200 spheres that can be made by a ki holder PER day.

[Dzspdref]

My point of making spheres /ex would kill all bots selling spheres for gil, which hopefully would stop them farming too;
also they HAVE to spend time using them to make shields, which is economically bad since the time takes to get to lv.4 not viable to their profits/time;
and/or limit how many spheres you can make per day, per character.
.
All of these ideas have been addressed/adjudicated before, but seems SE doesn't want any advice.
.
and for those that say things to point of "Well selling these spheres is how I make my gil in the game." then go find another way, since there are about 12,000+ different ways to do so now.

[VoiceMemo]

Still waiting on SE to do something about all the automated bot farming of items to desynth into spheres. Bot farming is rampant and should take priority over updates and adjustments to game.

[Sirmarki]

Still waiting on SE to do something about all the automated bot farming of items to desynth into spheres. Bot farming is rampant and should take priority over updates and adjustments to game.

It's not just spheres.. It's everything, on every map.

I don't care what anyone says, the majority of people selling Job Points are bots and I'm kind of tired of them hi-jacking/over running CP/Exp areas.

Let's be honest, who would get 1-2100JP in one hit, for someone else. Answer is - they don't. Simply because they aren't even at their computers.

If somebody is willing to obviously bot in an area, and take the risk, with numerous characters that they are paying money for, you have to question where the gil they are generating is actually going, because its got to be worth the risk, right?

I'm guessing to.. not very good causes.

[TullemoreAsuraFFXI]

I completely agree with Sirmarki and Voicememo here.

Support my effort. Give feedback, recommendations, suggestions, critical analysis.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/55608-Placed-into-June-Digest-reply-but-relates-to-items-crafting-economy-econ-health?p=617497#post617497

[VoiceMemo]

Still waiting on an official response from SE. Been over a year since I started reporting automated farming bots in areas that drop items that can be desynthed into spheres, and the same people are still there. No HUMAN player can run the EXACT same route, down to the pixels for hours on end. The bots turn to the mob then start casting magic to kill them, then resume their path.

I spoke to a GM, Verethentus, about a gilseller yell and then mentioned about the automated farming bots and said I should repost here, which I am.

Without timely enforcement of the rules, the RMT have become so brazen. They yell to sell gil without logging off their characters, before they used to do 1 or 2 yells then logoff, now they just stay logged in.

Same goes with automated farming bots, they have no fear of being banned. To me it seems like SE cares more about the monthly service fees than following the rules that they set in the Terms of Service. Either enforce the rules or change the Terms of Service to allow 3rd party.

[VoiceMemo]

Still waiting on an official response from SE.

Either enforce the rules or change the Terms of Service to allow 3rd party, since not banning automated farming bots in a timely manner is turning a blind eye to the cheating, which essentially says that 3rd party is ok.

[TullemoreAsuraFFXI]

Viable solution: Re-release with HD/remastered graphics on PlayStation 4 with keyboard and mouse USB peripherals and end support and service for PC.

[Sirmarki]

Viable solution: Re-release with HD/remastered graphics on PlayStation 4 with keyboard and mouse USB peripherals and end support and service for PC.

That shouldn't and would never happen :)

[Amnesty]

Banhammer Cometh

https://youtu.be/6g1BRypeg2Y

How complaints sound to SE

https://youtu.be/FC3TVi2af1k

[TullemoreAsuraFFXI]

Those Youtube links are somewhat broken as they wouldn't directly play the videos. I do very much appreciate the reference to the LM - 11 Banhammer. The Tom Cruise mock-up was amusing.

[Alhanelem]

It's not just spheres.. It's everything, on every map.

I don't care what anyone says, the majority of people selling Job Points are bots and I'm kind of tired of them hi-jacking/over running CP/Exp areas.

Let's be honest, who would get 1-2100JP in one hit, for someone else. Answer is - they don't. Simply because they aren't even at their computers.

If somebody is willing to obviously bot in an area, and take the risk, with numerous characters that they are paying money for, you have to question where the gil they are generating is actually going, because its got to be worth the risk, right?

I'm guessing to.. not very good causes.
My advice is transfer servers. Selling job points, among other things, is practically unheard of over here.

What good is a bigger community if it's controlled by bots?

[TullemoreAsuraFFXI]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/55608-Placed-into-June-Digest-reply-but-relates-to-items-crafting-economy-econ-health

The internal menus and interface of FFXI itself needs to be reformed, upgraded and evolved to deter prohibited behavior and RMT profiteering. Gil is being used as a medium for corruption and the linked proposal will at the minimum allow SE to arbitrate player to player commerce with a NPC mediated exchange. Post questions for further explanation if the entire proposal seems confusing, I will clarify.

[VoiceMemo]

My advice is transfer servers. Selling job points, among other things, is practically unheard of over here.

What good is a bigger community if it's controlled by bots?

So the solution is to keep running away from BOTTERS instead of SE enforcing the RULES THAT THEY MADE?

RULES/LAWS only work if people follow them and are enforced, the people that would consider using bots need to have fear that all their work will be for nothing, that is only way that the rules have any meaning.

[Alhanelem]

So the solution is to keep running away from BOTTERS instead of SE enforcing the RULES THAT THEY MADE?

RULES/LAWS only work if people follow them and are enforced, the people that would consider using bots need to have fear that all their work will be for nothing, that is only way that the rules have any meaning.
No, that's not what I'm suggesting, because that certainly needs to happen, but it's an endless battle and RMT will always find ways of circumventing whatever measures SE comes up with. All I'm telling you is the problems you speak of are a rarity on basically every server except asura. Not nonexistent, but much less of an issue. It's also possible that this fact is clouding SE's perception of how bad the problem is on Asura.

If the population of the servers was more even, all players would be getting affected at a more similar rate and then SE might have a more accurate picture. (And I don't feel like a merge has to happen for that, because the game is perfectly playable on these other servers)