White Mage has higher shield skill than frontline job Beastmaster?

[Gwydion]

Shield Skill Caps
Job Grade Level 99
PLD A+ 424
WAR C+ 378
WHM D 334
BST E 300
RDM F 265
THF F 265

Hi,
Can we please adjust skill caps for Shields so that front-line jobs like Beastmaster have a better chance at ....survival? I recommend Pet: Ready Delay -5 on a Shield for Beastmaster along with significant skill increases.

[Stompa]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I can understand why WHM is associated with shields, as shields are ultimately a defensive item, and WHM traditionally was hiding far away from danger and casting defensive spells like stoneskin and blink. So just from a lore point of view, WHM would be native to using shields to increase their overall defence.

I always equipped light-staff on my WHM, so I never was able to use shields. Ironically, I always equipped the very same light-staff on my BST, every day for six years 2004-10. And so I would not have been using shields on my BST either.

BST was formerly kiting / pinning <Run away!> kind of job, it was very defensive indeed, and BST/WHM was the norm, usually with light-staff equipped for Charm.

But the game has changed and BST is now front line Robocop kind of job, lacking the subtlety and sophistication of its former Glory Days. And so, in line with BST being a front-line job now, I think you are right to expect a higher shield rating for BST.

But again, PUP has awesome Throwing skill, PLD has awesome Staff skill - even though PLD is defined by its use of shields which means they can't use staves!

I was sorrowful in 2008, when I realized that the "Martial Magicians" (SCH) have an incredibly low Staff skill. Scholars are supposed to be Battle Wizards, they should have a far higher staff skill than PLD has, and yet, Scholar has this feeble staff skill. And PLD who equip a shield all the time, they have a godly staff skill.

And WAR, who are officially the job of Fencer, do not get any legendary swords, or a super sword skill rating, even though Fencers always used swords. Most of WARs Jobpoint Gifts are Fencer Bonuses, and yet WAR's primary weapon is Gaxe which does not have any benefit from Fencer.

Even though FFXI is without question the greatest computergame in the history of the universe, it has evolved organically over 15 years, and some things changed out of pace with other facets of the game. Some things probably need to be overhauled to reflect those changes, chime with the wider lore structure, and the evolving nature of certain jobs.

[Gwydion]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I can understand why WHM is associated with shields, as shields are ultimately a defensive item, and WHM traditionally was hiding far away from danger and casting defensive spells like stoneskin and blink. So just from a lore point of view, WHM would be native to using shields to increase their overall defence.

I always equipped light-staff on my WHM, so I never was able to use shields. Ironically, I always equipped the very same light-staff on my BST, every day for six years 2004-10. And so I would not have been using shields on my BST either.

BST was formerly kiting / pinning <Run away!> kind of job, it was very defensive indeed, and BST/WHM was the norm, usually with light-staff equipped for Charm.

But the game has changed and BST is now front line Robocop kind of job, lacking the subtlety and sophistication of its former Glory Days. And so, in line with BST being a front-line job now, I think you are right to expect a higher shield rating for BST.

But again, PUP has awesome Throwing skill, PLD has awesome Staff skill - even though PLD is defined by its use of shields which means they can't use staves!

I was sorrowful in 2008, when I realized that the "Martial Magicians" (SCH) have an incredibly low Staff skill. Scholars are supposed to be Battle Wizards, they should have a far higher staff skill than PLD has, and yet, Scholar has this feeble staff skill. And PLD who equip a shield all the time, they have a godly staff skill.

And WAR, who are officially the job of Fencer, do not get any legendary swords, or a super sword skill rating, even though Fencers always used swords. Most of WARs Jobpoint Gifts are Fencer Bonuses, and yet WAR's primary weapon is Gaxe which does not have any benefit from Fencer.

Even though FFXI is without question the greatest computergame in the history of the universe, it has evolved organically over 15 years, and some things changed out of pace with other facets of the game. Some things probably need to be overhauled to reflect those changes, chime with the wider lore structure, and the evolving nature of certain jobs.

Respectfully, I appreciate your explanation but I'm already aware of the historical context and understand that different parts of the game have outpaced each other. I just think that if SE declares Beastmaster a front-line job, then all skills/merits/JAs/etc should be updated to reflect their new mandated style of gameplay.

[Gwydion]

Maybe we have a reason to create a Beastmaster-specific shield here? Pet-based Ammurapi Shield maybe? :)

[Gwydion]

I'm not sure that Shield Skill+ on any given shield will help close close the gap between the native Shield Skill of Beastmaster, and other jobs, like White Mage.

Is this situation improved with increased Master Levels? I cannot see how this could be true. Any insight would be appreciated.

[Sp1cyryan]

You and your worthless necrobumps.

[Gwydion]

You and your worthless necrobumps.

If you don't have anything nice to say, then find something nice to say.

[BobbinT]

You and your worthless necrobumps.

Just out of curiosity, are there any rules about necrobumps?
Does this forum not allows it even though it is still relatable topics?
Do users have to create new topic if said relatable older topics are too old to bump it up?

From what I see over net rules, think it is still understandable to bump old topics as long as it's still relevant & not just mere spam-bumping.
Personally, I just find it a bit annoying if related topics had to be created as another new topic, hence making duplicates, it's much more apparent when using search about said topics.

[Gwydion]

Just out of curiosity, are there any rules about necrobumps?
Does this forum not allows it even though it is still relatable topics?
Do users have to create new topic if said relatable older topics are too old to bump it up?

From what I see over net rules, think it is still understandable to bump old topics as long as it's still relevant & not just mere spam-bumping.
Personally, I just find it a bit annoying if related topics had to be created as another new topic, hence making duplicates, it's much more apparent when using search about said topics.

I agree with you. I don't understand why Spicy Ryan creates zero threads of his own and yet shares his distasteful opinion of everyone else in other people's threads. It's sad. If I had created a new thread to discuss Beastmaster Shields, he'd just poop on it there too, right?

Anyway, I know that on some forums, "necrobumping" is considered bad practice because they also opt to notify people when their posts are quoted. Some people laugh when a person quotes another someone who hasn't posted in YEARS, but sometimes it can be intentional. I've had some pretty amazing things happen in my life from people who necro'bumped my posts on other forums. I've received some extremely rare gaming collectibles from a redditor whose health was failing. He sent me an item I had been looking for in a 5-year old post! ....so take this post as you will, I don't see necrobumping as such as a bad thing.

In a game like FFXI, where issues, thoughts, topics, attitudes, etc, can all last for months and years, I think it's OK to see fewer, longer threads, than many new threads all trying to address the same thing.

Anyway, the topic of this thread is that: Beastmaster's Shield options are lame and as a frontline DD, this should be remedied.

Please, no troll Beastmaster shields, like "Reward II+10" forcing us to lose TP if we want to use Reward with increased HP restoration.

In any case, I still think Beastmaster should get:

1.) All jug pets uncapped (according to Main hand Axe level, as is today).
2.) Dual Wield I or II at level 99 (Because Axes and Axe Weapon Skills are terrible).
3.) Remove Beast Affinity / Beast Healer because #1 makes this unnecessary.
4.) Replace them with a Pet Diffusion, enabling Beastmasters to share their pet's buff with the entire party.

[Sp1cyryan]

If you don't have anything nice to say, then find something nice to say.

____No____

[Alhanelem]

Just out of curiosity, are there any rules about necrobumps?
Does this forum not allows it even though it is still relatable topics?
Do users have to create new topic if said relatable older topics are too old to bump it up?

From what I see over net rules, think it is still understandable to bump old topics as long as it's still relevant & not just mere spam-bumping.
Personally, I just find it a bit annoying if related topics had to be created as another new topic, hence making duplicates, it's much more apparent when using search about said topics.
It's not a rule, it's just bad form. And generally understood amongst most internet forums. It's almost always better to start a new thread. Digging up old threads is bad unless you have something substantial to add to the old topic. Even then it's better to just start a new thread so it's your own perspective. It's analogous to trying to continue an in-person conversation with someone years after it originally took place. Gwyndon has been constantly digging up old threads for no obvious reason. It makes it seem like they have no talking points of their own so they're searching the forum for things they can agree with, without looking at the dates or considering whether it's still even relevant.

As far as the caveat you provided, well, most of these necrobumps are not adding any meaningful contribution, it's just like "hey, its 6 years later and id still like to see this"



I agree with you. I don't understand why Spicy Ryan creates zero threads of his own You rarely create threads of your own either, instead you're necrobumping everything.

Anyway, if you really need an answer to the original topic, its because WHM really needed the extra help for solo play which WHM was and is absolutely garbage at. It's not really relevant anymore as unless you're PLD it probably doesn't matter. There are other reasons too, but the simplest one is "it's this way because the devs said so years ago and they don't see any reason to change it."

[BobbinT]

yay, u're back... not. :p


U literally ignored the last sentence from my previous post. & own perspective? Why on earth does that gave enough reasons to justify making a new thread instead of just reused old ones? U're just suggesting users to make spam that way, & been years of my annoyances when I searches things and saw multiple results that only states similar topics which ends up either mere base discussions or no solutions at all. Kinda wish someone like admins would trim those, but they're also humans in the end.


Personally, I rather seeing old thread bumped if it is actually necessary, sometimes they resurfaces to interesting personal topics as well, though I bet they're not for the likes of u, hence there's also options to skim/ignore it. And seeing type like urs, bet u like to make useless replies when someone did actually follow per what u posted here to make new threads with their own "perspectives", then bash it under pretense of "repetitive, search 1st" posts, which IMO is really unproductive.

[Alhanelem]

Why on earth does that gave enough reasons to justify making a new thread instead of just reused old ones? It's the way it's been and it should be respected. And I didn't ignore any part of your post. You don't get to decide that I did because you feel like it. Maybe you find it annoying to see multiple topics but the reality is few people use the search function, and further the reality is that it is rare that ressurecting an old topic is a good idea. THose topics got buried because the discussion was done (or in some cases, because there was no interest), or because they're no longer relevant. They should not be bumped unless there is something meaningful to add. And most of the necrobumped threads had notrhing added to them other than "hey i want this still." A better use of bumping such of that thread would be adding current context and explaining how it is needed more now than it was then (or whatever is relevant).

Gwydion is also being hypocritical in berating someone for not making threads of their own when they themselves have bumped more threads recently than they started themselves.

There's a reason why many forums, like FFXIAH, and all of Blizzard's forums for example, clearly identify or call out necro bumps- They want anyone who sees the thread to know that it is old and to check the dates before replying, as often these threads are digging up old disputes and are used to troll, among other things. I myself have replied to threads in the past not noticing the date on the original post and not realizing until later that I was wasting time responding to something that had already been settled.

[Catmato]

Just out of curiosity, are there any rules about necrobumps?

There is no rule against it and there is certainly nothing wrong with it. People don't like necrobumps because they were told, decades ago, that they are bad, and calling them out lets them be backseat moderators. Keeping everything about a certain topic in a single thread is the superior way to organize a forum; it keeps people from having to reiterate stuff that was already said or brings the discussion to new eyes. It also make searching easier and prevents people from bumping the "wrong" thread.

Maybe a new thread would be merited if something big changed, like BST getting a bunch of new shields or something, but I can't see that happening any time soon.

[Alhanelem]

There is no rule against it and there is certainly nothing wrong with it. People don't like necrobumps because they were told, decades ago, that they are bad, and calling them out lets them be backseat moderators.No, no, no, just no. It's not just "some random guy decided they are bad." Entire forum communities have decided they are *usually* (but not necessarily always) not a good idea.

Yes, there is no specific rule against it, but people disapprove of it for entirely good reasons. Like I said before, there are reasons why many forms label and identify necro bumps. Generally speaking ressurecting old threads without meaningful contribution serves no one, and it displaces other threads that are current. This has absolutely nothing to do with "backseat moderating," as no one here is trying to moderate anything, it's advice for the future (which is clearly being disregarded, but whatever, I guess some people like to do things they know others find annoying.)

A new thread is always merited. It ensures that the discussion points are coming from the poster, and not just making echoes. The forum has no maximum capacity, there's no harm or detriment to making new threads. Sure, a search may locate multiple threads, but it's a simple matter to just refer to the most recent one.

[BobbinT]

https://forum.arcaneodyssey.dev/t/necrobumping-the-dos-and-donts/48592


and the point specifically:



https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/data:image/png;base64,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


anyhoo, please post something about the topic being nerfed shield usage for BST. This is not discussion about necrobump, which apparently from top searched results over google still adamantly being accepted within certain boundaries.

[Alhanelem]

Don't necrobump threads and there will be no reason to bring it up. :)

As far as the topic itself, I already said what I wanted to on the topic.

[Gwydion]

The purpose of this thread still stands that Beastmaster Shield skill is still 34 base skill below that of White Mage. The conundrum here is that Beastmaster is considered as a front-line DD and must fight within 7-yalms of our engaged Pet. This is also indicated by Tandem Strike, which offers Accuracy and Magic Accuracy bonuses both Master and Pet are engaged to the same mob.

If you take into consideration all of the current Shield offerings for Beastmaster and White Mage, both jobs have access to shields that offer Shield Skill +107 and Shield Skill +112. To name a few of these shields: Sacro Bulwark and Ammurapi Shield. There is also Deliverance+1 for both Beastmaster and White Mage, which offers Shield Skill+117 (with augments).

These items don't close the shield skill gap because both jobs can equip a shield with the same amount of Shield Skill.

Given all of these things, how can you consider a Beastmaster a frontline DD?

I would like to recommend a resolution:

1.) Either create Beastmaster-specific shields that we can full-time, with intended pet stats, like many 1-handed Axes. OR
2.) Give Beastmasters Dual Wield 1 or 2 at level 99.

But until any solution is implemented, don't call Beastmaster a front-line DD.

[Alhanelem]

Given all of these things, how can you consider a Beastmaster a frontline DD?The last time I paid any attention to BST, most of them were using 1h axes dual-wielded with /NIN. As a melee DPS with routine access to utsusemi, with C rank parrying being far better than their E rank shield, it would make a lot more sense to just go this route instead of using a shield with the worst possible shield skill. Frankly I think you would do both more damage and survive better this way than with a 1h weapon and shield.

[Gwydion]

The last time I paid any attention to BST, most of them were using 1h axes dual-wielded with /NIN. As a melee DPS with routine access to utsusemi, with C rank parrying being far better than their E rank shield, it would make a lot more sense to just go this route instead of using a shield with the worst possible shield skill. Frankly I think you would do both more damage and survive better this way than with a 1h weapon and shield.

I agree. If Beastmaster requires Ninja subjob to be functional as a front-line DD, then either:


Beastmaster deserves Dual Wield I/II natively or
We need better Shields and Shield Skill for Beastmaster.

[Alhanelem]

If Beastmaster requires Ninja subjob to be functional as a front-line DDI wouldn't say "required," just "most optimal." there's a difference.

And for a very long time, /NIN was the norm for most melee DDs, until so many NMs all stripped all shadows all the time. I don't recall many people complaining about that meta though.

Giving BST native dual wield would make a lot more sense if subbing NIN bothers you that much. But I don't think anything needs to change there. BST isn't really tank and even a somewhat better shield skill isn't that helpful. Shields in general aren't that great unless you're a PLD in the first place, simply becuase of the shields that PLD has access to.

[Gwydion]

I wouldn't say "required," just "most optimal." there's a difference.

And for a very long time, /NIN was the norm for most melee DDs, until so many NMs all stripped all shadows all the time. I don't recall many people complaining about that meta though.

Giving BST native dual wield would make a lot more sense if subbing NIN bothers you that much. But I don't think anything needs to change there. BST isn't really tank and even a somewhat better shield skill isn't that helpful. Shields in general aren't that great unless you're a PLD in the first place, simply becuase of the shields that PLD has access to.

I appreciate your taking the time to reply but you indicated you haven't played Beastmaster in a while. Give single-wielding Axes a try in Odyssey, Sortie, even just Gaes Fetes NMs, and I guarantee you won't feel like you're playing a frontline DD. (Dancer and Ninja subjobs aren't required for frontline DDs, Beast Masters should have avenues to use other subjobs more in line with Frontline DDs).

[Alhanelem]

and I guarantee you won't feel like you're playing a frontline DD.I probably wouldn't. Which is why I'd sub NIN, because it's just the smart thing to do. That doesn't mean it's "required."

You aren't required to play optimally, or any particular way.

Like I said, I don't see what increasing it's shield skill is going to do- there's basically PLD, and everyone else. I'd be open to adding other traits to improve survivability but increasing shield skill would be pretty much useless.

[Gwydion]

I probably wouldn't. Which is why I'd sub NIN, because it's just the smart thing to do. That doesn't mean it's "required."

You aren't required to play optimally, or any particular way.

Like I said, I don't see what increasing it's shield skill is going to do- there's basically PLD, and everyone else. I'd be open to adding other traits to improve survivability but increasing shield skill would be pretty much useless.

I think we both agree that something is missing in Beastmaster's frontline performance. I'm only using Shield Skill as an example, because it comes natively to Beastmaster, and at a very low rating compared to backline jobs, like White Mage. Whatever solutions comes from this discussion, even if it's survivability traits, I'll take it.

[Alhanelem]

WHM has shield skill because it's an absolutely horrible job to solo on (particularly early on) and much like BST (admittedly) it's best weapon type is a 1-hand weapon. It's really just to fill the slot with something that adds stats, frankly. I wouldn't call it all that useful in their case either (and if you want to fight as a WHM, again, you're probably subbing NIN and offhanding a k-club)

[Gwydion]

Hi SE,
Please consider giving Beastmaster a shield skill that is more in-line with Frontline jobs. Alternatively, you can also give Beastmaster the option to Dual Wield (only Axes).