[dev1003] Abyssea adjustments

[Xikeroth]

[dev1003]Abyssea Adjustments
The upcoming major version update will see the following adjustments made to Abyssea:

* New Ways to Obtain Empyrean Upgrade Items
* Empyrean +1 seals will be made obtainable via new battlefields.
* Empyrean +2 items will be made obtainable from notorious monsters in additional Abyssea areas as follows:

o Heroes of Abyssea area items will also appear in Scars of Abyssea.
o Scars of Abyssea area items will also appear in Vision of Abyssea.

* Visitant Light Status
In addition to visitant duration remaining, players will be able to inspect their active lights when healing.
　
* Notorious Monster Weaknesses
The following blue magic spells will no longer be effective against enemy weaknesses:
Death Ray / Blitzstrahl / Hecatomb Wave / 1000 Needles / Frost Breath / Firespit / Regurgitation / Seedspray

While the BLU weakness triggering thing is good and it makes for less of a headache for us Blue mages, I do have problems that I think SE isn't really willing to accept.

Mainly to do with the seals, the problem with abyssea since day one of the AF farming is that some NMs are either a lot easier to fight or a lot easier to access, then there are those NMs which people over camp for key items to spawn stronger items (that pestie to spawn sobek for example)

To solve this i think the drop rate of the spawn items for the NMs that drop +1 seals should be raised a lot so to not waste time for those people that don't enter with a full alliance and either change the ways to spawn +2 NMs or make a new NM able to drop seals for the jobs that the NMs such as Gukumatz so that we can farm that instead. Why? Because If i know people that need 3/4 seals that this NM drops I'll gladly camp this over 3-4 diff NMs. Otherwise its just a frustrating waste of time.

Why is this a problem? Because there are a lot of groups that will make you buy the right to be in their group to lot just seals otherwise you have to compete against their entire LS for that one NM which is just plain old stupid on SE's part for not adjusting this. This is mainly a fault of the endgame community and they have always been this way which is one of the problems with the FFXI community.

Instead they are letting us obtain +1s in battlefields? You have any idea how random that will be? It'll make dominion seem like a very viable way to obtain seals(unless its very high) because battlefields have always been terrible in obtaining the items you need. Unless we can chose the seals we want this will only be a useful way to maybe waste kindred crests.

I don't know why SE is refusing to take player feedback into consideration, on a thread I read people talking about how we should be able to trade 3-5 seals of any kind per slot for 1 seal that we want. I don't think this would be a bad idea because some jobs have much harder NMs to fight then others, or even easier quests yeah I can think of weaker NMs being camped but it would also be more viable to just camp your specific NM. It would also help if NMs had equal chance to drop all seals... I had to kill Athamas over 40 times while triggering yellow just to get 6 NIN seals... balanced? Not a chance.

Yeah obtaining seals isn't that hard, but it IS frustrating. I can understand +2s being a bit more annoying, but there is no reason we shouldn't be able to exchange those useless seals for something else. No matter how many PUP or DRK seals I get from a NM I'm never going to touch that job unless I need to farm crystals for crafting even then I can just go to sky and camp elementals.

The only thing this means to me is for my +2 items I can go to weaker zones and farm the items I need but at the same time I think there will be something stupid or unbalanced concerning them as well.

I have always had problems with abyssea, while I do like it, I don't like how SE developed some aspects of it. I do like how we don't need an endgame group, but they could have done a much better job concerning balance.

I was hoping the abyssea adjustments would be real adjustments and that obtaining +1/+2 items would see a drastic change in some NMs being easier to farm without having to bother with competing with some endgame LS. But as usual SE didn't listen to community feedback on it.

Yeah you fanboys can flame me for point out a problem with the game or the way the community is (you always do)but the fact is I am saying an opinion and my thoughts on the issues and since I am paying my FFXI fee I am allowed to say my opinion.

[Eeek]

The players who cannot currently get +1 seals* from NMs are the ones who'd wipe to Bubbly Bernie if he made an appearance in one of these 'Battlefields.'

They're. So. Easy. To. Get.

*Exception: Some of the +1 Body seals are a real pain to collect. In some cases, it's much easier to +2 a bodypiece than it is to +1 it.

EDIT: That being said, can we fight a giant Bubbly Bernie in one of the battlefields? :p

[Airget]

One thing I wonder about the "battlfields" is that if they are BCNM related, I wonder how difficult they will be. If you consider inside abyssea if we were to fight the same difficulty of mob within a battlefield without atmas the fight would probably be pretty tough. I"m wondering if SE is considering to allow us to use our atmas in these battlefields that will drop the +1 seals.
Another thing that would be interesting in terms of having to fight over timed NMs would be what if these battlefields just drew the abyssean foe into the battleground with the proper orb used. For example:

Let's say these new battlefields were nothing more then fighting the same abyssean foe inside a BCNM arena. So let's say for 10 kindred crest you can get an orb in which you fight Asanbosam. Asanbosam is a timed bat NM that drops BRD/PLD/BLU/RNG but to add a twist to it wouldn't it be nice if the person who initiated the BCNM was guaranteed the KI. So after beating the foe the Leader that started the battle would obtain the "Bloodied Bat Fur". With the incoming server merge it would definately help to alleviate any sort of fighting between people and timed NMs as well as offer a useful use for kindred and high kindred crest for those who may already have the seals needed. It would also in a sense create an easier route to obtaining the pops to obtain +2 items.

Basically my concerns are
-If the NMs within the arena are the same or have the same strength as the foes in abyssea will we have access to our atmas.
-If the orbs are used to draw the NM we would normally fight Ex. "Asanbosam" would it be possible to obtain their KI upon defeating them.

To me it just doesn't feel like allowing heroes +2 items to be found in Scars areas will help as much as being able to find Scars items within Vision areas. To me it just seems as it it will create an overpopulation in the scars area for those who wish to micromanage their time and in a sense it may be harder for those who are on their empyrean trial to get it done.

What concerns me is while looking at the NM list within Chasm Abyssea I began to ponder as to where they would actually stick the +2 stones from heroes into Scars areas without overlapping onto NMs that already drop zones. It just feels like it will just create more competition in the middle zones while possibly creating more open space in heroes and bringing back life into visions.

[Xikeroth]

The players who cannot currently get +1 seals* from NMs are the ones who'd wipe to Bubbly Bernie if he made an appearance in one of these 'Battlefields.'

They're. So. Easy. To. Get.

*Exception: Some of the +1 Body seals are a real pain to collect. In some cases, it's much easier to +2 a bodypiece than it is to +1 it.

EDIT: That being said, can we fight a giant Bubbly Bernie in one of the battlefields? :p


Ok perhaps you don't understand what I am trying to say, now i don't care about your experiences I'll say that right out. But there IS a problem when you go to farm NM pop items, wasting time doing so then popping the NM for it to drop nothing at all or only 2 seals you don't need while triggering staggers, meanwhile I could go fight another NM for a DIFFERENT selections of jobs trigger staggers and get 6 seal drops from 1 kill. Thats unbalanced. and I doubt SE took that into consideration.

Sure you may say they are easy but try farming them WITHOUT massive numbers of atma and with only 3-4 people then maybe your story will be different. Like I said I don't care if you do it in an endgame group but some people do take breaks from FFXI or have to work and deal with rl situations or have other stuff to do an can't spend 8 hours a day on a game 5 days a week.

My point is SE needs to make some sort of exchange system and make at least the +1 seals easier to obtain for those of us that can only play 3-4 hours a day, don't have the atma buffs or don't have the people to get this stuff done.. Old endgame DID have an advantage...you only had to fight an NM for 1 drop you need and didnt have to do these stupid staggers. Now you have to fight an NM for 8 drops you need that probably won't drop at all, while at the same time competing with people that have every buff/item in the game already and have advantage of numbers.

My point was people on these forums gave the exchange idea of 3-5 seals for 1 item you can chose and SE ignored it. With endgame groups turning some NMs into a "its ours you cant have anything unless you PAY gil for it" monopoly on some NMs which just flat out isn't right.

Airget

I hope the battlefields don't have atma access, then people will have to actually bring balanced jobs, MNK wont take the place of NIN or PLD in tanking and people will have to use their heads and also have a brd or rdm to refresh their mages and debuff the mobs.

I miss the days this game actually required people think, right now its just use these 5jobs and win any nm easily.

[Eeek]

Actually, I do know your frustrations. I quested or joined pick-up parties for most of my seals when Scars first came out. You're just describing people who don't know what they're doing, and this is commonly the case in pick-up parties.

It would also be wise to hold back the Real Life card the next time you want people to take you seriously. I've been farming Abyssea for months with 3-5 other people in my LS.

It's not an endgame LS by any stretch of the imagination.

We all have busy real lives, and we accomplish what we can with the time we have together. A lot of it is done on the spur of the moment. Yet, we've completed dozens of +2 pieces. I myself have, at worst, full AF3+1 for all my jobs. I've +2'd half of those pieces over the past few months. It sure as hell isn't going fast, but effort over time yields results. And I'm a patient guy.

Don't ever assume that some nice gear here and there is evidence of a no-lifer. It's not hard for busy, motivated people to have fun and get things done these days.

[Duelle]

rdm to refresh their mages and debuff the mobs...and you just lost my support. Please let refresh atmas take effect in the new battlefields. I got sick of the cycles, what, two years ago?

[Xikeroth]

Actually, I do know your frustrations. I quested or joined pick-up parties for most of my seals when Scars first came out. You're just describing people who don't know what they're doing, and this is commonly the case in pick-up parties.

It would also be wise to hold back the Real Life card the next time you want people to take you seriously. I've been farming Abyssea for months with 3-5 other people in my LS.

It's not an endgame LS by any stretch of the imagination.

We all have busy real lives, and we accomplish what we can with the time we have together. A lot of it is done on the spur of the moment. Yet, we've completed dozens of +2 pieces. I myself have, at worst, full AF3+1 for all my jobs. I've +2'd half of those pieces over the past few months. It sure as hell isn't going fast, but effort over time yields results. And I'm a patient guy.

Don't ever assume that some nice gear here and there is evidence of a no-lifer. It's not hard for busy, motivated people to have fun and get things done these days.

Try again, I am giving example of people that dont have the time to get the atmas you have and can't get the people to farm the items they need. I have better things to do then shout for people to farm seals. Perhaps you don't like to see the negative sides of abyssea because you're a blind fanboy of it.

I won't hold back a "real life" card as my main time for working is in the evening since its my work schedule, like i said situations are different. I DO know what I am doing in abyssea, so don't treat people like they are idiots then maybe you'll get a better reply.

But you obviously don't think about the situations of OTHERS and base every ones experiences on your own. maybe you're the one that should open your mind to the experiences of others. I don't have a large LS of people that want to do abyssea for seals and the ones that DO want to do it are only concerned with their emp weapon trials and not helping other obtain seals(this happens whenever i join an abyssea group)

As for your last line, Don't EVER assume people suck because they don't have the armor or atma you do, 85% of the time its because of lack of playtime or lack of being able to find people that are willing to help you obtain what you need. This you are guilty of.

[Xikeroth]

...and you just lost my support. Please let refresh atmas take effect in the new battlefields. I got sick of the cycles, what, two years ago?

Afraid of needing to use your head before you cast a spell?

The problem with abyssea is atmas make people far too overpowered and as a result they are less likely to succeed in non-abyssea events because they dont have the playerskill level needed to achieve these goals.

Abyssea wont last forever if SE wants the game to survive otherwise may as well call the game Final Fantasy Warcraft.

Edit: I am a RDM and I don't want to have to sit there and do nothing but cure people which a lot of people expect even now in terms of abyssea groups, I'd MUCH rather slow, paralyze, blind silence gravity, nuke whatever is needed and not just press 2-3 buttons max in an entire fight. I'd rather have the ability to make my enhancing skill useful rather then collect dust.

Even with atma's a GOOD rdm would still be casting refresh on party members as they need it.

[Eeek]

Try again, I am giving example of people that dont have the time to get the atmas you have and can't get the people to farm the items they need. I have better things to do then shout for people to farm seals. Perhaps you don't like to see the negative sides of abyssea because you're a blind fanboy of it.

I won't hold back a "real life" card as my main time for working is in the evening since its my work schedule, like i said situations are different. I DO know what I am doing in abyssea, so don't treat people like they are idiots then maybe you'll get a better reply.

But you obviously don't think about the situations of OTHERS and base every ones experiences on your own. maybe you're the one that should open your mind to the experiences of others. I don't have a large LS of people that want to do abyssea for seals and the ones that DO want to do it are only concerned with their emp weapon trials and not helping other obtain seals(this happens whenever i join an abyssea group)

As for your last line, Don't EVER assume people suck because they don't have the armor or atma you do, 85% of the time its because of lack of playtime or lack of being able to find people that are willing to help you obtain what you need. This you are guilty of.

Wat. You need to reread my post. It went completely over your head.

That, or you're just here to complain and/or troll without any regard to the commentary of others.

Here's a little secret: I don't have more playtime than you do. ;)

[Fiarlia]

Stuff

Why are you so mad?

[Ravenmore]

Theres a really easy refresh atma you can get with out killing NMs. Windy nation mission rewards a 5 tic atma on top of refresh 2 thats a 11 tic refresh. With 2-3 and 5-1 uncap not having it is dew to well you know. On to seals rdm +1 seals least for the hands and body come from a easy to spam quests. Body once you get the hang of it takes 6 to 7 mins to finish, hands depends on where the npc sends you can range from 6 to 10 mins. The I don't have time card doesn't hold much water. Atmas are easy to get go to MM spawn, if there is a party there killing it ask if can join for the atma. Chance's are that would most likly have a war or or enough jobs to cover red. On a side note I got my isador from a player who i traded a heart from my brew kill. I coulda also just ask since he was spaming it.

[Eeek]

Did I miss anything? I stepped away from this discussion 45 minutes ago when a few friends decided to burn NM popsets. We killed 3 Amhuluks, Tristitia, and a Resheph in that time.

What was this about needing 3-4 hours per day to accomplish anything in Abyssea? I'm having trouble following OP's line of thought.

[Xikeroth]

Wat. You need to reread my post. It went completely over your head.

That, or you're just here to complain and/or troll without any regard to the commentary of others.

Here's a little secret: I don't have more playtime than you do. ;)

Actually i read your whole post, and unlike what you think i DO know people that can get stuff in short time because of abyssea, but at the same time. I'm not here to "troll" but I am here to complain about the shortcomings of abyssea. Like i said you're a blind fanboy and you refuse to admit ANYTHING is wrong with abyssea at all when there are problems with it.

Athamas: Easy to get and kill NM... solo or in a small group. problem with it? I killed it a lot and was able to make 3 pairs of MNK pants, 2 pairs of DNC and 3 THF before I got 6 SEALS for NIN. I KNOW this isn't the experience of everyone but this is my experience. I have seen this NM drop 6-7 seals in one kill.

Then you take another NM say... Nightshade. Also easily soloable/duoable by some jobs only dropping 2-3 seals at a time both while triggering yellow staggers. Where is the balance In that exactly? Tell me, where is it? There isn't any.

You clearly do NOT have less time then I do, because if I had all your time and obsessed over abyssea so blindly I'd be at the same stage as you.

get over yourself.

[Xikeroth]

Why are you so mad?

Because of SE's inability to balance the game properly while taking into consideration of more farmed Nms while other Nms are ignored.

Also the fact that several members of the fanbase refuse to admit a problem with something because they'd rather give blind praise to the development team when they don't deserve it. While I DO like abyssea, I do also think that SE needs to think more about how difficult one jobs items are compared to another. They should be even.

The abyssea drops are very unbalanced NM for NM job for job, some jobs drop more seals more often and are much easier to access then others, and some abyssea LSs are more concerned with the weapon related mobs then they are in helping their members get atmas or seals.

Se just needs to learn to take more of a look at the community ideas before dismissing them.

Also at the community's inability to accept someone has an opinion that is DIFFERENT from theirs and they decide to flame and troll them for no reason at all.

Also for the community's inability to talk in a normal topic and create their own ideas for the OP instead they decide to attempt to fling insults. In which I will defend myself. I take crap from no one.

[Xikeroth]

Did I miss anything? I stepped away from this discussion 45 minutes ago when a few friends decided to burn NM popsets. We killed 3 Amhuluks, Tristitia, and a Resheph in that time.

What was this about needing 3-4 hours per day to accomplish anything in Abyssea? I'm having trouble following OP's line of thought.

Because not all of us are able to do this nor do we have the members to do this. starting to wonder if you understand english

Also you have to farm pop items you know they dont just pop out of nowhere

[RaenRyong]

I have seen this NM drop 6-7 seals in one kill.

no you haven't

Unlike old FFXI, the only real bottlenecks for your speed of gear acquisition are your motivation, resources and competition. Playtime is obviously still a factor but it's not a case of "you need x amount of hours to play every evening" like you used to need.

I'm saying this as nicely as I can: Eeek's group is likely better at Abyssea than yours. There are many people better than mine. In the time I spend doing something, some people would've achieved twice as much. And that's fine. Skill/effective use of resources should always lead to a great increase in productivity.

[RaenRyong]

Also you have to farm pop items you know they dont just pop out of nowhere

NIN can easily solo an Amhuluk set in <30 minutes. Resheph requires ONE KI which is frequently found in large gold boxes or can be acquired from the 15 minute repop NM. The VNM can be a cockblock I will agree.

[Dallas]

I, for one, welcome the changes to the +2 drops. No one wants to do those nasty bosses from Visions. I want more pickup groups.

[Dubberrucky]

The changes that they posted are all well and good, but it does raise the concern that if this is to relieve some congestion that in that respect it has a high probability of failure. In my experience most of the overcrowding on seals NMs are from people needing key items to get to trials or +2 NMs not necessarily the seals. Hopefully this means that either more battlefields are in the works to alleviate those issues or that these battlefields will also drop key items necessary as well.

[Malamasala]

The problem with abyssea is atmas make people far too overpowered and as a result they are less likely to succeed in non-abyssea events because they dont have the playerskill level needed to achieve these goals.

Well, the problem with so high haste cap is that everyone become so poor at the game that they can only win with zergs. Not to mention the problem with people in general is that they are so terrible they can't win with 18 random jobs but need specific setups.

In all honesty I haven't seen a single good player in this game since it was released. Everyone has taken the easy road.

[Kuishen]

The problem with abyssea is atmas make people far too overpowered and as a result they are less likely to succeed in non-abyssea events because they dont have the playerskill level needed to achieve these goals.

Abyssea wont last forever if SE wants the game to survive otherwise may as well call the game Final Fantasy Warcraft.


First of all, this game is nothing like WoW, I don't know if you've ever played it before but I've finished a trial account and the game is completely different so stop your whining and moaning on that end.

Second of all, I fail to see how the part I put in bold is a problem. There has always been things people can't do because they suck at the game. They either accept that they can't do them or they get better at the game. It's that simple. I for one am going to be extremely glad when the game moves out of abyssea and I don't have to be infuriated by every dipshit who has thrown 18 people/brews at shit and gotten equipment that I still need, when he/she clearly doesn't know how the fuck to use it. While I know that moving the game outside abyssea won't completely remedy that, it will sure help.

And yeah, I am mad on that account. *grumblefuckingepona'sringgrumble*

[Kensagaku]

I know your pain with that stupid ring, Kui... just got a Rani popset recently, will be burning it for my ring soon as I get a brew so I don't have to think about lolMeteorspam.

So, at the OP... you need to chill, just a little bit. It's kinda silly that you're getting all worked up and throwing the RL card out at people just because you can't get what you want. It's not like it takes all that much effort. Most of the times my LS can't be bothered to help me get stuff, so I end up taking the twenty minutes (at most) it takes to shout for people for an NM, and lo and behold, we kill it and seals/+2 items are had.

I think part of your problem can be summed up pretty easily:


I have better things to do then shout for people to farm seals.i.e. No motivation, no effort, no seals. You wanna complain about not getting them? Make the effort first or you're just going to sound like every one of the other players who wants the game on easy mode, handed to them on a silver platter. Most of the +1 items I have come from solos on NIN/DNC or shouting for seal groups (much more efficient and less time consuming...). At least show that you're trying or stop bawwing, please. This is just getting old. "I want something but because I don't want to meet X requirement you should make it easier!"

Geebus.

[Damage]

I was hoping the abyssea adjustments would be real adjustments and that obtaining +1/+2 items would see a drastic change in some NMs being easier to farm without having to bother with competing with some endgame LS. But as usual SE didn't listen to community feedback on it.

/Sigh

Square do listen, and they make this game easier and easier by the update, why is this not enough for some people? Would you just like a big button pop up on screen when you log-in that says "complete game"? Or a "Level 1 to 99 now" button?

I bet so many people would use that too! o.O

And as many people have said already, seals are a piece of piss to get hold of. Shout for 30 minutes and all you need is 3 or 4 people (or less if you wanna risk missing a yellow proc. or two like some people don't mind doing) and you're off. Granted, the Heroes NMs are a little bit tougher than the Visions and Scars ones, but not by much.

If you're having trouble solo'ing stuff for your +2 stuff because you don't want to join others in achieving a common goal, maybe this game isn't for you. Sorry.

[Anathiel]

Hello good fellows. I'm coming back to the game after a 4 year hiatus and I was just curious, are drk's any good in abyssea? Oh, and i support your adjustments to make this on topic.

[RaenRyong]

DRK is a low tier DD inside Abyssea. Nice red and blue proc utility but inferior to WAR inside in every way imaginable.

[Malamasala]

Would you just like a big button pop up on screen when you log-in that says "complete game"? Or a "Level 1 to 99 now" button?


I want a popup question asking "Do you want to play for fun, or to be super special and gloat?". Picking the first lets you get everything for free and instantly, picking the other pits you off against AV as level 1 and AV may, with 0.0000001% chance drop a super rare item.

I'm sure that would make everyone happy.