One thing that really pisses me off about the FFXI community

[Rhianu]

One thing that really pisses me off about the FFXI community is that what seems like a vast majority (or at least a large percentage) of the people who play this game absolutely refuse to acknowledge any short comings with FFXI's UI or discuss topics about ways to improve the UI.

If you want to discuss any other topic at all, or suggest improvements to any other area of the game, the community is usually willing to do so in a perfectly mature and respectful manner. But as soon as the subject of UI is brought up, the community instantly degenerates into one of the most immature group of children I've ever encountered in any MMO, slinging insults and flames far worse than anything I've ever encountered in WoW /trade chat.

Why is this? Why so defensive about the UI? FFXI's UI is not some holy grail. It is not some almighty pinical of perfection. In fact, it's horribly flawed in many, many ways. The fact that there are so many windower plugins and various third party programs that all try to fix FFXI's UI is irrefutable proof of this.

Yet despite this, a good chunk of the FFXI community seems totally incapable of discussing UI improvements with any degree of respect or maturity.

FFXI players claim that this game has one of the most mature communities in any MMO, but from what I've seen the level of maturity is exactly the same as any other online game.

[Flunklesnarkin]

UI improvements...

inb4 ps2 limitations >_>

[Rhianu]

See, PS2 limitations is an excuse that frequently gets used, but the PS2 actually doesn't impose that many limitations on the UI at all. Maybe a few things as far as resolution and screen-space are concerned, but other than that there are a ton of things that could be done to improve the experience even for the PS2.

Things like a mini-map, showing the EXP bar on-screen at all times (like in WoW and FFXIV), on-screen countdown timers for abilities, showing TP of party members, allowing players to view maps of areas other than the one they're currently in, a quest log that actually provides useful information, organizing the AH categories better, the organization of the config menus...

Really, there are a lot of things where PS2 limitations aren't even a factor.

[Jackastheripper]

I am pretty sure there are a couple of threads that have good convo and ideas about the UI of the game. Try using the "search thread" function before you just come off sounding like a complete moron. Well done troll for making me read your thread though with such a flame-worthy title. Between said title and your bad-mouthing the community, you seem to fit in well with the rest of us immature children. This being said, I need to go make a suggestion post in the "Site Feedback" section for a /blist option on the forum....

[Karbuncle]

You seem angry. Putting Curse words in your Forum Title is a good way to get it locked/Deleted Really fast, Then how are you going to change anything when no one can read your post?

If you want to discuss UI Improvements, Make a thread about it that isn't a giant angry rant, cause this is probably going to be deleted simply because of the Title.

[Rhianu]

Putting Curse words in your Forum Title is a good way to get it locked/Deleted Really fast
Is "piss" a curse word?

[Bubeeky]

I've seen a couple of threads regarding the UI personally, and most of them seem to be mature, decent conversations, just not all that interesting. Comments or suggestions about the game itself though....I'd love to see the mature respectful threads you're seeing lol cuz most of the ones I've seen/read aren't even in the viscinity of mature or respectful, which is why I generally don't bother responding to them lol

[Rhianu]

I've seen a couple of threads regarding the UI personally, and most of them seem to be mature, decent conversations

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/4804-Give-us-quest-tracker-in-the-one-in-World-of-warcraft-and-mini-map

[Karbuncle]

Is "piss" a curse word?

sure is. In the English Dictionary anyway, Not sure where you're from, Might be different.

[Greatguardian]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/4804-Give-us-quest-tracker-in-the-one-in-World-of-warcraft-and-mini-map

Horrid example. The OP of that thread is an idiot/troll who spams the boards with 1-line threads. Anyone who's kept up with General Discussion at all is fairly sick of it; thus the responses.

[Tamoa]

While it's not perfect, FFXI's UI is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay down on my list of things I would like SE to improve about the game. Compared to many other games, it's quite user-friendly.

[Rhianu]

Horrid example. The OP of that thread is an idiot/troll who spams the boards with 1-line threads. Anyone who's kept up with General Discussion at all is fairly sick of it; thus the responses.

The OP brought up a perfectly valid suggestion in that post. The fact that it was only a couple lines long is irrelevant. You don't always need to write a long wall of text for your point to be valid.


Compared to many other games, it's quite user-friendly.
Actually no, it's not. FFXI players think the UI user-friendly, only because they've been using it for years and have become accustomed to it. But in truth FFXI actually has one of the most user-UNfriendly UIs of any MMO. Sure, there are a couple games out there that are worse in this respect, but FFXI is nowhere near the top. FFXI is the only MMO I know of where newbies struggle just to figure out how to walk.

[Tamoa]

The OP brought up a perfectly valid suggestion in that post. The fact that it was only a couple lines long is irrelevant. You don't always need to write a long wall of text for your point to be valid.

The OP of that thread had already spammed the forum with other threads, most of them demanding things that aren't broken to be fixed, or asking questions about the most basic stuff it would have taken him 1 minute to look up on wiki. Then he left every thread to rot, not acknowleding any replies or anything. So, people were already rather tired of him.


Actually no, it's not. FFXI players think the UI user-friendly, only because they've been using it for years and have become accustomed to it. But in truth FFXI actually has one of the most user-UNfriendly UIs of any MMO. Sure, there are a couple games out there that are worse in this respect, but FFXI is nowhere near the top. FFXI is the only MMO I know of where newbies struggle just to figure out how to walk.

Actually, both my statement and yours are a matter of opinion. Not a fact. If newbies struggle to figure out how to walk (which I did lol), it's on them, not having read instructions (which I didn't).

[Karbuncle]

Its not that he brought a valid point, Its that he was a terrible Troll, Go read his other threads and you'll understand why he was met with resistance. He created Dozens of plain stupid 1-lined Spam Threads that were obvious troll attempts.

However, Later in that thread the idea was discussed normally.


While it's not perfect, FFXI's UI is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay down on my list of things I would like SE to improve about the game. Compared to many other games, it's quite user-friendly.

What Friendly UI? How can it be user friendly if it doesn't Mimic WoW Piece for piece?

Stop talking nonsense.

on a serious note, the UI is far from Perfect, But its also far from critically needing improvement. Right now half of the complaints about the UI are offered Via Windower, Truthfully SE could end the trouble if they just acknowledged Windower was okay to use.

[Rhianu]

The OP of that thread had already spammed the forum with other threads, most of them demanding things that aren't broken to be fixed, or asking questions about the most basic stuff it would have taken him 1 minute to look up on wiki. Then he left every thread to rot, not acknowleding any replies or anything. So, people were already rather tired of him.
The things he's said in other topics is irrelevant, as that particular post I referenced was a perfectly valid suggestion and pointed out a genuine problem with the UI.

[Jackastheripper]

I love that the OP is at 6 posts (as I post this) and 5 of them are in this thread which means he started this profile to flame lol. Looks like we have a new troll on our hands. And on a side note, I started a /blist suggestions thread in the site suggestions area of the site. Check it out! :)

[Anethia]

I'm not sure what part of the UI you're complaining about. Perhaps if you give an example of your specific gripe you might get a more educated discussion out of it. I've seen plenty of threads on these forums that suggest some creative changes to the UI and none of those posters have actually been ridiculed and insulted for their suggestions. What this thread sounds like is you just bashed the UI and provided no input as to how to improve it, as a result you got flamed and trolled and now your just pissy cause noone took you seriously.

In regards to third party programs, those work outside the bounds of the game and bypass certain restrictions. However, these programs are, by definition, violating the ToS by possibly giving an unfair advantage to their user. Despite what positive uses they might provide in terms of improving on the games UI, they are prohibited programs that you use at your own risk.

[Rhianu]

Actually, both my statement and yours are a matter of opinion. Not a fact. If newbies struggle to figure out how to walk (which I did lol), it's on them, not having read instructions (which I didn't).
See, that's a big misconception that seems to be perpetuated among FFXI players. If new players have trouble just figuring out how to do simple things walk, that is not their fault, it is the game's fault for not making walking intuitive enough or not presenting the instructions in the proper format (hint: the proper format is usually in-game tool-tips, which are completely missing from FFXI).

[Karbuncle]

See, that's a big misconception that seems to be perpetuated among FFXI players. If new players have trouble just figuring out how to do simple things walk, that is not their fault, it is the game's fault for not making walking intuitive enough.

Actually It Kinda Is. I agree the UI needs some work, but learning to walk/heal/etc Are all in the Manual. its not the games fault players wouldn't read the Manual. When i buy a new game i always look at the Controls/Commands.

[Rhianu]

Actually It Kinda Is. I agree the UI needs some work, but learning to walk/heal/etc Are all in the Manual. its not the games fault players wouldn't read the Manual. When i buy a new game i always look at the Controls/Commands.

Any game that requires the player to read the manual is poorly designed. A good, well designed interface should be so intuitive that no instruction is necessary, or if that's not possible then all the pertinent instructions should be presented within the game itself. Any interface that requires users to turn to an outside source for instruction, whether that instruction be in a manual or on a website, is counter-intuitive.

[Tamoa]

The things he's said in other topics is irrelevant, as that particular post I referenced was a perfectly valid suggestion and pointed out a genuine problem with the UI.

I don't think you read my post properly. People were already quite sick of the OP spamming the forum with threads like "I don't like having to get certain dynamis wins before I get access too Xarc (i.e. I want my thf hands NOW and I don't want to work for them), fix it!" Not saying that particular suggestion was horrible, but he was already being suspected of being a troll by many of us.

[Eeek]

See, that's a big misconception that seems to be perpetuated among FFXI players. If new players have trouble just figuring out how to do simple things walk, that is not their fault, it is the game's fault for not making walking intuitive enough or not presenting the instructions in the proper format (hint: the proper format is usually in-game tool-tips, which are completely missing from FFXI).

Yes, it is the fault of new players if they cannot figure out how to walk. A FFXI Game Manual does exist, FFXI is extensively documented online on many different websites, and SE even created cute little introductory videos for new players.

[Rhianu]

Yes, it is the fault of new players if they cannot figure out how to walk. A FFXI Game Manual does exist, FFXI is extensively documented online on many different websites, and SE even created cute little introductory videos for new players.

I already covered that:

Any game that requires the player to read the manual is poorly designed. A good, well designed interface should be so intuitive that no instruction is necessary, or if that's not possible then all the pertinent instructions should be presented within the game itself. Any interface that requires users to turn to an outside source for instruction, whether that instruction be in a manual or on a website, is counter-intuitive.

[Greatguardian]

The things he's said in other topics is irrelevant, as that particular post I referenced was a perfectly valid suggestion and pointed out a genuine problem with the UI.

Welcome to the internet.

If you make a big enough jackass out of yourself for long enough, it won't matter if you're posting the secret to solo AV. People will not take you seriously. It's a little thing called accountability. That OP has shot all his credibility to hell, so he's not going to get anywhere no matter what kind of thread he makes; whether you consider it a legitimate discussion or not.

That said, I don't care about the UI. There are unofficial improvements that are easy to obtain and are strictly regulated in order to prevent the disruption of game balance. Does being able to swap more than 6 pieces of gear at a time give you an advantage over console players? Yes. But you're not going to be able to claim-bot/craft-bot/fish-bot with Windower unless you hack it, which you could say about just about anything.

Is it reasonable to expect players to use non-sanctioned third party Apps to improve their UI? Honestly, at this point, I think it's perfectly reasonable. The game is 10 years old. You can run FFXI on a netbook, let alone any desktop or laptop built within the past 6 years. Would some default UI improvements be nice? Sure. But they probably won't be compatible with Windower plugins if they are implemented, and people would still use Windower anyways. Nothing the Dev team can implement will come close to mimicking Scripting and Spellcast (PS2, RAM, etc).

If you want to run FFXI on a 360/PS2/PS3, that's fine. No one's stopping you. You just have a less awesome UI. It's a conscious decision you make to opt for the less awesome UI when you play on a console. It's been this way for years. Implementing Windower plugins into Vanilla FFXI is never going to gain enough steam to happen because any PC player who gives a crap already uses Windower.

[Tamoa]

So are you saying FFXI is too hard because it requires you to read instructions in a booklet? Reading is hard? Personally, I can't think of anything more annoying about a new game than having tips popping up every 5 steps I take when I start playing.

[Rhianu]

I didn't say it was hard, I said it was counter-intuitive. Do not confuse difficulty with obfuscation.

[CrystalWeapon]

It's not just UI threads that get the cookie cutter arguements. Most suggestions get one or more of the following.

"Ps2 limitations"
"If you want (insert suggestion here) then go play WoW"
"(insert suggestion here) isn't useful enough to spend time on. I don't want them putting off big things for useless crap"
"It's been this way since day 1 it's not going to change"
etc...

I have to agree with GG on this if you post nothing but stupidity for long enough, the first responses you'll get back on any thread will be negative. If you have a concern you should at least take the time to put your idea together in a clear and concise manner. Starting a thread with "OMG SE how can you do this???" or "This needs to be changed now!" is never the right way to go about a suggestion. You only hurt your own cause.

[Greatguardian]

I didn't say it was hard, I said it was counter-intuitive. Do not confuse difficulty with obfuscation.

Oh god. Reading the Instruction Manual to find Instructions is counter-bloody-intuitive.

Bravo.

[Rhianu]

Oh god. Reading the Instruction Manual to find Instructions is counter-bloody-intuitive.

Bravo.

Hey, it's true. Try reading a book on human-computer-interactions (H.C.I.).

[Karbuncle]

Admitedly I only skimmed the wiki page on HCI

But are you comparing college and beyond level Reading to a Game Manual?

[Tamoa]

I think the OP means most people simply do not like reading instructions on how to play a pc game and would rather not. And that reading a book on H.C.I. will tell you this.

However, it's still a conscious choice people make. Read manuals, or figure out how to move your character on your own. And there are some fairly obvious keys you'd press first to see if they work, in my opinion (that's playing on pc with a keyboard, idk about other consoles or using a controller, but I honestly can't picture that being much harder).

Anyway, I'm kind of left with the impression going by the title of this thread, and OP's posts, that they made this thread to pick a fight lol.

[Tamoa]

Double post go!

If a new player ends up not wanting to play because figuring out how to move their character is too complicated, chances are they wouldn't last long anyway, since this game does require some effort to get things done.

[viion]

aside from walking i find wow much more confusing than this game, take stats on gear, theres fking tons of lines of all kinds of stats on wow, i have absolute no clue what they do or anything, in this game its like "attack+5", or "str+5", thats it, nothing more, it does what it says.

I like XI ui how it is, i found it very simple, i didnt get stuck at first cuse i just buttons i figured would work and finally found the dpad of use. And now i absolutely love them controls over anything, i was furious when XIV couldnt use arrow for camera.

a lot of windower plugins dont aid much tho, TP fair enough but it takes away "communication", when people make /p <tp> and stuff, it'd just be "i see ur tp, i will go when u go" and end of story lol, so i see why they didnt include it, and EXP bar idk i loved not being able to see it, cuse then i'd never know when i was about to level and i had a concept of mystery that made levelling not feel like "ugh 3000 exp to go....." etc. I hate that its now forced on XIV. I hate being constantly reminded that my x kills only takes me up a small amount on the bar.

minimap fair enough be nice but again i dont care much for it, i like stopping and checking map and planning my way, eventually learning it, on XIV i only use it to find direction of levemobs, other than that its useless to me.

better icons like the ui theme provides would be a nice addition.

[AyinDygra]

(my thread on interface features) (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/1535-Missing-Interface-Features) I think I put it in the wrong forum, since it hasn't gotten much discussion. Just thought I'd link it here for potential mature discussion :)

[Jackastheripper]

I think the OP means most people simply do not like reading instructions on how to play a pc game and would rather not. And that reading a book on H.C.I. will tell you this.

However, it's still a conscious choice people make. Read manuals, or figure out how to move your character on your own. And there are some fairly obvious keys you'd press first to see if they work, in my opinion (that's playing on pc with a keyboard, idk about other consoles or using a controller, but I honestly can't picture that being much harder).

I agree with this. Ignorance is not an excuse

[Rhianu]

Read manuals, or figure out how to move your character on your own.
God forbid the game actually TELL YOU how to walk. -_-


And there are some fairly obvious keys you'd press first to see if they work, in my opinion (that's playing on pc with a keyboard, idk about other consoles or using a controller, but I honestly can't picture that being much harder).
You may think it's obvious, but the fact that so many people have had so much trouble with it over the years is irrefutable proof that it's not.

Though this particular problem only applies to the PC version. No one ever has trouble figuring out how to walk on the PS2 or Xbox 360 versions because the walking controls on both of those versions follow the standard convention for their platforms (i.e. character movement is done with the left analogue stick). Using the numpad as character movement is highly unconventional for a PC game, and because FFXI needlessly breaks with convention, it causes an immense amount of confusion for new players.

Compare this to FFXIV. Now yes, FFXIV does have a lot of UI problems of its own, but one thing SE got right was setting the default character movement controls to WASD, which is the conventional standard for PC games, just like the left analogue stick is the conventional standard for console games. As a result, no one has had any trouble at all figuring out how to walk in FFXIV like they did in FFXI.


If a new player ends up not wanting to play because figuring out how to move their character is too complicated, chances are they wouldn't last long anyway, since this game does require some effort to get things done.

See, this is one of the things that really bugs me. The FFXI community blames the player for things that are the game's fault (or rather SE's fault, because they designed the game).

No one is quitting the game over the unconventional character controls, but it's still an unnecessary frustration and confusion that the game needlessly dumps upon new players. This confusion could easily be avoided by a better design, so therefore there is no justifiable reason to put players through it.

And the confusing controls are just one example among many. There are countless other ways in which FFXI creates excessive and unnecessary confusion for new players (such as the convoluted map system, configuration options that seem to be almost deliberately hidden, and the total lack of direction, just to name a few).

And besides, the fact that there are more complicated things later on does not mean it's okay for the beginning of the game to be counter-intuitive. The game can teach players everything they need to know along the way. There is no excuse for just dropping the players on their head and expecting them to figure out everything on their own.

[Tamoa]

That's the thing though, they don't have to figure out everything on their own. They can pick up the instruction manual and read.

[Tezz]

Well, obviously, this is low priority(if at all) for SE. If you want it done try to make a generous donation to SE to persuade them, idgaf.

That or get everyone to complain like mad. Works for FF14.

[Eeek]

Arrow keys confuse me. :(

[Andylynn]

Any game that requires the player to read the manual is poorly designed. A good, well designed interface should be so intuitive that no instruction is necessary, or if that's not possible then all the pertinent instructions should be presented within the game itself. Any interface that requires users to turn to an outside source for instruction, whether that instruction be in a manual or on a website, is counter-intuitive.

What? Since when should it be counter productive to read an instruction manual? A good, well informed player should at least read how to interact with the game before diving head first. To claim the opposite is just plain asinine.

You keep claiming the UI is so convoluded, and contrived, but you hven't really given any examples outside that you just say it is. If you want a productive thread, come up with a comprehensible, coherent, logically sound argument; present it in a fashionable manner; and discuss the results. Do not insult those who think you made a poor attempt at presentation.

[rog]

There are no short comings of the UI. It is perfect.

[rog]

What? Since when should it be counter productive to read an instruction manual? A good, well informed player should at least read how to interact with the game before diving head first. To claim the opposite is just plain asinine.

You keep claiming the UI is so convoluded, and contrived, but you hven't really given any examples outside that you just say it is. If you want a productive thread, come up with a comprehensible, coherent, logically sound argument; present it in a fashionable manner; and discuss the results. Do not insult those who think you made a poor attempt at presentation.No one reads manuals, and every game creator should always assume the players will not read it. Sorry, but i agree with him, anything that is not obvious, and needs to be explained should be explained within the game itself.

[Karbuncle]

in a way i think Rog is right.

Its a good idea to cater to the llazy masses. Cause they are the majority. Maybe having basic things explained in the "Cutscenes" at the begining of the game.

How do other MMORPGs handle it? a Tutorial?

[Andylynn]

No one reads manuals, and every game creator should always assume the players will not read it. Sorry, but i agree with him, anything that is not obvious, and needs to be explained should be explained within the game itself.

That's one gigantic assumption. To claim -no one- reads guides, manuals, is just plain ludicrous. If the information is simply there in a small pamphlet right in front of your face, with you refusing to read it, and you can't understand how to navigate the game, then you are close minded.

[rog]

Ok, but the vast majority of people never read any game manuals. The most likely people to read them are probably little kids who read them in the car on the way home.

[Coephoros]

I love how much "they" are stupid. "We" of course are perfect.

[Karbuncle]

Sometimes i forget that not everyone watches RedLetterMedia reviews, Especially on Star Trek Movies.

[Karbuncle]

But no, Really, How do other MMO's handle it? I guess it wouldn't be too hard to implement a "Tutorial" System in the first part. how to Heal, How to open Macros, How to access menu/items/Equipment screen, and how to Move wouldn't be too bad.

After that though.

[Eitheta]

I admit, FFXI has a shitty UI compared to other games, but there is really no point at all in fixing it now. It's way more work than it's worth. Plus, everybody who plays is used to it now, yours truly. It plays well with a controller.

Having a better more customizable UI would be nice, but honestly, out of the things I'd want for this game, it's at the bottom of my list. The only UI improvement I'd really, really like is a minimap.

[Olor]

The UI isn't great but I'm used to it. This thread is pointless.

Also if the game comes with instructions and you don't read them - you don't get any sympathy from me if you whine that you don't know how to do stuff. That said XI only sells as a download now, generally, so, there is no box to get instructions in.

[Karbuncle]

The UI isn't great but I'm used to it. This thread is pointless.

Also if the game comes with instructions and you don't read them - you don't get any sympathy from me if you whine that you don't know how to do stuff. That said XI only sells as a download now, generally, so, there is no box to get instructions in.

I bet no one in this thread remembers that, but from this point on its all they'll cite for reasoning.

[Ravenmore]

On the topic of UI updates I would like to have a update to the macros. Think something was brought up in another tread bout them and I can't remember all of it. I understand if they couldn't add more lines to them cause of lolps2 but a command to add to the end of the macro to start the next one with the limit of it that it couldn't keep repeating it self and only could go up to 3 tops.

As for mini- map as long as i could turn it off when I didn't want or need to see it, I would have no problem with it.

[Mirage]

In this thread: Why should user interfaces be intuitive when you can read the manual?

[wish12oz]

To me, it seems more like "Anyone who cares uses windower for the things they want." And anyone on 360 or ps2 doesn't know what theyre missing and most don't care lol.
Exp bars are annoying too, I don't want to be constantly reminded of how far I have to go, I hate that so so much.

[rog]

Exp bars are annoying too, I don't want to be constantly reminded of how far I have to go, I hate that so so much.
Information is annoying?

[Karbuncle]

Me starting to thinks Rogs is simply playing the Devil's Advocate for fun.

[Meyi]

It's probably because the topic is started with insults.

I personally like the UI the way it is, and I personally prefer this type of UI as to WoW's and all the other MMOs that have followed it.

That's not me being a child. That's just me disagreeing with you.

[rog]

Me starting to thinks Rogs is simply playing the Devil's Advocate for fun.
Actually, no. Not this time.

I do not understand why someone would be annoyed by relevant information.

[Karbuncle]

Actually, no. Not this time.

I do not understand why someone would be annoyed by relevant information.

I think (Hope) He means "Cluttering your screen" kinda like how Pokemon has it under their HP bar.

I think its fine under the Status Tab as is.

If he's talking about having one at all, then yah i see your point.

[rog]

I think (Hope) He means "Cluttering your screen" kinda like how Pokemon has it under their HP bar.
That is an incredibly poor example.

But yeah, that can be annoying, depending on where it is.

[Karbuncle]

That is an incredibly poor example.

But yeah, that can be annoying, depending on where it is.

Perhaps, First one that came to mind though. I'm sure this is when im suppose to ask "DO you have a better one?! "

And you do, Cause you know everything ever. but yah. Give me a better example cause I am kinda curious.

No sarcasm, I can't think of a game that Includes an Exp bar on the visual UI without requiring accessing some menu except Pokemon :|

[Pharaun]

Honestly I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around people not being able to figure out how to walk when they first started playing. For me I logged into the game the first time and hit the arrow keys when I saw that they controlled the camera I immediately tried the number pad since it also has arrows on it and I walked. Wow, not hard at all...if it took someone more than 30 seconds to figure out then they have bigger issues to work on than trying to figure out how play a game.

[rog]

Honestly I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around people not being able to figure out how to walk when they first started playing. For me I logged into the game the first time and hit the arrow keys when I saw that they controlled the camera I immediately tried the number pad since it also has arrows on it and I walked. Wow, not hard at all...if it took someone more than 30 seconds to figure out then they have bigger issues to work on than trying to figure out how play a game.It took me about 5 mins, but i was 11 at the time, and never really played any computer games before XI.

[Jski]

This is how i see the ff14 community hehe. Just stander fan boys/girls or what ever has though cat ears. This game (ff11) is to the point where you cant make much more changed with out making a new game altogether, so things are remembered as if one looks at there youth so there going to be a bloused view on it.

[Jackastheripper]

Has no one noticed the OP has stopped commenting? The troll did his job.....

[rog]

That is not always an accurate indication of a troll.

[Kailea_Nagisa]

The UI is not perfect but for it being designed for a controller in mind, it worked out well, as has FFXIV's (after some updates of course) Both these games where made for a controller as has the menus, but they keyboard controls are not too terrible.

[Rambus]

on a serious note, the UI is far from Perfect, But its also far from critically needing improvement. Right now half of the complaints about the UI are offered Via Windower, Truthfully SE could end the trouble if they just acknowledged Windower was okay to use.

I can second this, if SE do not have time or w/e let players do it ( as long its not bot aps and so on) like wow does. I think wow even has a list of appoved aps or some list of accpected ones.



What Friendly UI? How can it be user friendly if it doesn't Mimic WoW Piece for piece?

Stop talking nonsense.

on a serious note, the UI is far from Perfect, But its also far from critically needing improvement. Right now half of the complaints about the UI are offered Via Windower, Truthfully SE could end the trouble if they just acknowledged Windower was okay to use.

maybe it is user friendly since it is better then ffxiv


there is this:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/5063-Menus-Dialogues-Confirmations-and-General-Redundancies.
then the so called troll topic:




http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/4804-Give-us-quest-tracker-in-the-one-in-World-of-warcraft-and-mini-map
Horrid example. The OP of that thread is an idiot/troll who spams the boards with 1-line threads. Anyone who's kept up with General Discussion at all is fairly sick of it; thus the responses.

Why does it matter who makes the topic? why is it so hard to only talk about the issue despite who posts it? especially when it is a valid one.

as for main OP comment I think most people see FFXI UI has drawbacks, but it is not at the point of horrible where it needs to be redone like ffxiv. With that said I really do not get why you come out so aggressive in your OP.


Has no one noticed the OP has stopped commenting? The troll did his job.....

I hope you realize it can be the other way around, some people are sane where they do not put up with crap, so he could of left from all the attacks.

[Atomic_Skull]

Except for a split chat box and an option to drawn the UI 2x larger I wouldn't want to change anything.

[Karbuncle]

I was being sarcastic on that "It cant be good if its not WoW!" bit.

[Eeek]

Perhaps, First one that came to mind though. I'm sure this is when im suppose to ask "DO you have a better one?! "

And you do, Cause you know everything ever. but yah. Give me a better example cause I am kinda curious.

No sarcasm, I can't think of a game that Includes an Exp bar on the visual UI without requiring accessing some menu except Pokemon :|

From time to time, I still play a decentish Diablo-clone by the name of Torchlight. It's fun when I'm in the mood to hack-and-slash through swarms of monsters for an hour or so.

It has an EXP bar along the bottom of the UI.

[Karbuncle]

Diablo II does as well.

Thanks for reminding me of that game i now want to play. :|

[bungiefan]

IIRC, Rhianu is TaintedSeraphim from GameFAQs. He's been championing "proper design" on the FFXI board there for years, and leading to 500 post arguments over how everything should ideally work.

Read his threads there to see how this always goes. He's always against using an instruction manual out of the box, or even basic reading comprehension.

FFXI is user-friendly enough. I was able to figure out all the controls and menus I needed when the game was Japan-only and I couldn't read kanji yet. It behaves like most other FF games when using a controller. I don't know about the keyboard because I don't play any games with keyboard controls if I can help it.

[Zumi]

There is lots of stuff that could be improved with the UI. Some of this is done by windower but then that isn't official.

For starters the UI doesn't show buffs / debuffs of your party or alliance members. Party frames don't have icons to show afflicted debuffs or doesn't offer any kind of color change to show a debuff.

Cooldown timers for my abilities would be nice.

When you target a enemy it shows very little information. No current HP/MP%, doesn't show what debuffs are on the mob or what buffs it may have on itself.

[rog]

When you target a enemy it shows very little information. No current HP/MP%, doesn't show what debuffs are on the mob or what buffs it may have on itself.Since when does it not show hp%? Also, mp% is useless, as the only mobs that ever run out of mp are drg wyverns, since they are war/drk.

[Rambus]

Since when does it not show hp%? Also, mp% is useless, as the only mobs that ever run out of mp are drg wyverns, since they are war/drk.

I herd someone actally ran kirin dry lol

it does not show % hp you have to guess ( i am pretty good at it too)

[Greatguardian]

I herd someone actally ran kirin dry lol

it does not show % hp you have to guess ( i am pretty good at it too)

That was like a 6 hour fight in 2005-2006 though, lol. It happens, but it takes ridiculously long. The only time it's ever really been implemented strategically was Aspir-spamming that Crawler BCNM30 way way back in the day.

[Rambus]

That was like a 6 hour fight in 2005-2006 though, lol. It happens, but it takes ridiculously long. The only time it's ever really been implemented strategically was Aspir-spamming that Crawler BCNM30 way way back in the day.

I know but he said wyverns only, said nothing about practicality

[rog]

Obviously it is possible to run anything out of mp, but realistically, it never happens on anything but wyverns, which have extremely little mp, due to only getting it from their sub job (which is drk, a low mp job no less). Everything else has stupidly huge amounts of mp. Knowing a mob's mp is really not useful.

[Rambus]

Obviously it is possible to run anything out of mp, but realistically, it never happens on anything but wyverns, which have extremely little mp, due to only getting it from their sub job (which is drk, a low mp job no less). Everything else has stupidly huge amounts of mp. Knowing a mob's mp is really not useful.

oyru elementals/ worms..... back in the day anyway

not that useful but wow does it so why not? I think it would be a good thing to show buffs/debuffs on the mob though ( wow does that too)

[Trangnai]

Ok, its really going to be hard to catch up with this thread even after reading it. Some points I want to point out are simple.

- PS2 Limitations/360 Limitations: this isnt really a limitation as much as it is an assumption that people don't/won't or at least at some point in there gameplay don't have a Mouse/Keyboard for gameplay. The game is designed to be cross-platform without needing extra hardware for basic gameplay. The UI was built to reflect this.

-Manual talk etc: This point is a simple point. most players should read the manual. But keep in mind two things.
1) This game now is primarily distributed as a Downloadable now, there is no Manual packaged in, and if there is its probably in a format that people don't want to read, i personaly don't like reading PDF files or things like that.
2) The games manual will be outdated when enhancements to the UI and other things are made. The Manual will become outdated. this is much easier to change in game rather then re-writing an entire manual. Just add the changes to the in-game totarial, its alot easier to learn buy interacting then it is to learn buy reading or other things anyway. Especially for things with in-depth systems. like MMOs.

The current in-game tutorial: As i'm sure most people have noticed This game DOES have a tutorial to teach you how to play, the biggest issue is. It doesn't teach you how to play at least not in the sense of how to control the menus and other things. The biggest thing it teaches you i believe is how to get signet, and trade/use items. but doesn't necessarily teach you the controls to do such.

Websites: this in its own should be simple, websites should not be needed to play a game, web guides and such should allow ease of play to the user but should not be required to get the most out of a game.

Minor Changes: Anyone who knows ffxi's UI knows its flaws, most PC users use windower to bypass these flaws. I personally believe that some changes could be done to make the UI more user friendly, things such as timers for buffs could be easily implemented.

PC configuration: As I'm sure most PC users know. configuring curtain options for the game actualy requires you to not be playing the game and to use a program included for PC specific changes, such as changing the game between windowed-mode and full-screen as well configuring the joypad. It would be alot easier for users to change configurations for such things in-game throught the config menu as most players would assume. This could be implemented by adding a PC only configuration menu. in the UI.

[Atomic_Skull]

When you target a enemy it shows very little information. No current HP/MP%, doesn't show what debuffs are on the mob or what buffs it may have on itself.

why should you know that just by looking at a monster?

[HFX7686]

I like the UI for FF11. I've never had any problems using it. On the other hand, I find WoW-like UIs to be cumbersome and horrible. I hate using a mouse for one and they always seem to require you to use a mouse.

FF11's UI is very basic and simple. It is, however, ugly. An update of how it looks might be in order one day.

[Tamoa]

I like the UI for FF11. I've never had any problems using it. On the other hand, I find WoW-like UIs to be cumbersome and horrible. I hate using a mouse for one and they always seem to require you to use a mouse.

FF11's UI is very basic and simple. It is, however, ugly. An update of how it looks might be in order one day.


This, very much this.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Why is this? Why so defensive about the UI? FFXI's UI is not some holy grail. It is not some almighty pinical of perfection. In fact, it's horribly flawed in many, many ways. The fact that there are so many windower plugins and various third party programs that all try to fix FFXI's UI is irrefutable proof of this.I have found that most people who complain about the UI use controlers. I suggest unpugging them and learning how to play the right way. lol

[Rambus]

Ok i want to clear something up, what do you define UI?

to me it means user interface, how I communicate with the game, that means menus, macros, text boxes and so on is part of the UI, not just basic controls.

so when I say the UI can use improvements I do mean menus and marco lines more than anything. Making a mouse useable should be a bonus not a complaint. a mouse in FFXI is a hindrance to the point I have to unplug my gaming mouse because the sensitivity makes the curser pop up. That makes it REALLY hard to deal with menus.

using a mouse should allow you to do 2 things at once easier < i want this. I can make mouse workable in FFXIV and in wow but nto ffxi.

It needs more customizing like the dumb chat filter names, then need to be clearer, not this you need 5 filters to block something. Text colors need more customization, my evade should not be the same as mob evade, and so on.

FFXI UI is not great but it is not horrid ether like FFXIV ( is it still though?)

[CrystalWeapon]

From Camate in the (New "Macro Strings", Macros Reborn) thread.


While we can see the plus sides of the suggestion, there are some pitfalls involved as well. Being able to string together multiple macros would put too much of an emphasis on automation and that is a direction that the development team does not want to move toward.

Though I can’t promise a specific date, the development team is looking into UI and macro revamps for the future.

They've also said on twitter that they are planning on revamping the UI to make it cleaner and more user friendly. Although, neither this thread nor twitter gave any kind of timeline on which to expect it.

[Rhianu]

IIRC, Rhianu is TaintedSeraphim from GameFAQs. He's been championing "proper design" on the FFXI board there for years, and leading to 500 post arguments over how everything should ideally work.

Read his threads there to see how this always goes. He's always against using an instruction manual out of the box, or even basic reading comprehension.
Yes, and it's the ignorance and narrow mindedness of the people on GameFAQs that pisses me off so much, and I see a lot of that same attitude on most other FFXI forums as well.

And I never said people shouldn't have basic reading comprehension. Thanks for twisting my words, though.

What I said is that you can't expect people to do any outside reading or research before starting a game. Most people just want to jump in and start playing right away, and a well designed game will be accommodating to that, while a poorly designed game won't be.


FFXI is user-friendly enough. I was able to figure out all the controls and menus I needed when the game was Japan-only and I couldn't read kanji yet.
But how long did it take you to figure everything out? How often were you completely lost and confused? How many times did you have to ask for help or turn to outside resources? Those are all very important factors that you're forgetting to take into account.

Just because you were able to figure it out eventually, that doesn't mean it's well designed. Even the worst UIs can eventually be learned. But a good UI will make that learning process easy and painless.



A few months ago, Naoki Yoshida (the new producer/director of FFXIV) said the following in an interview:


"I had the chance to work with Horii Yuji on a game in the Dragon Quest series. One of the first things he said to me was “Before you consider if it’s fun or not, it’s got to be easy to understand!” He taught me that games have to be easy to understand because if the players can’t figure out the rules of the game, it’s hard for them to really decide if it’s interesting or not.

In the case of MMORPGs, the learning curve is especially steep. There is a lot of content that you interact with right from the start and on top of that, there are so many words that players aren’t used to. FFXIV has its own terminology and unique economic system. In addition to the user interface, I also believe it’s critical that we move to make the game itself easier to understand and lower that learning curve."
~Naoki Yoshida, new director/producer of FFXIV

http://www.eorzeapedia.com/2010/12/31/4gamer-interview-with-naoki-yoshida-part-1/


FFXI UI is not great but it is not horrid ether like FFXIV ( is it still though?)
Most of the complaints people initially had about FFXIV's UI have been ironed out. There's still a few kinks in the system, but it's coming along nicely. Already FFXIV's UI has surpassed FFXI's in almost every single area. Now the only things in FFXI's UI that are still better are the crafting menu, the LFG menu, Linkshell management, and a few shortcut commands. Everything else is better in FFXIV's UI.

[Greatguardian]

o ok.

So you're the Starcade of legitimate UI.

Makes sense now. Carry on.

[Atomic_Skull]

While the UI could use some tweaks a total revamp is unnecessary. It just needs a few refinements and additions.