119 Hecteyes and Hippogryph jug pet

[Gwydion]

Hi SE,
Beastmasters have never had a 119 Hecteyes pet jug. Can you please add one? Also, can you refresh Adamtantoise and Hippogryph jugs to be ilvl 119 as well.

Thank you.

[Urmom]

Actually never had a Hecteye's at all.

There a bunch that could brought up which makes the like 3 different mandies and crabs really weird. Also makes brave hero glenn weird because lol frog with low stats and no moves. Ones that reach ilvl but not full 119 that would be awesome are Sheep, Coeurl, flytrap, leech, snow rabbit, ladybug, funguar, and lynx

[Gwydion]

I specifically asked for those 2 for a reason. I know SE's time is limited, so I figure a 119 Falcor will give us TH again and a Hecteyes pet will be fun/new.

[Urmom]

I want leech specifically because it's one of the few pets whose usefulness has to do with things other than just dealing as much dmg as possible. And ladybug was a great TH pet too!

[vavant]

Id like to see these puk jug with healing wind reason i said it is se removed 2 moves i know of 1 from grass hopper and 2nd from the boar i the like barreling smash added to boar and the crabs that can use mega scissor lastly dhalama yes i know size but most pets clip the walls in crawlers nest as is oh and let jugs break the cap like smn can add +2 lvl to guttler or just a back peace

[Xilk]

I mostly want a way for all the 114 capped pets to hit 119.
Falcorr, Fargann, Julio ,Raphie and Shasra would be reclaimed.

whether is raising their level cap or making higher level versions, I don't much care, but those pets would be wonderful. would love to have a high level sabotender also.

[Selindrile]

Unless these pets have potential for cleaving, there's not much point at the moment unfortunately.... with the ready move range restriction there's not much use for Bst outside of cleaving situations, even there Blu or Blm are situationally better but at least they're competitive there, not really anywhere else.

[Xilk]

Just because you don't know what to do w/ the pets, doesn't mean others don't.

BST is already better at cleaving than blu or blm. can keep a faster pace, and safer. Bst can solo pull, crowd control, and kill much more efficiently than blu or blm. with good cor rolls and good set, can even 1 shot the crowd, though usually 2 shot. sure a super set for blu or blm will one-shot more often, but bst has less wait time by far. 2 shot, crowd dead, and getting a new group by the time blu gathers the group, or blm waiting for someone else to pull.

bst doesn't need more cleaving, though having a thunder spell would be nice variety. Bst's best magical ready moves are all on the dark skillchain spectrum. Charged Whisker would give some variety. Let alone a direct silence in Chaotic Eye and Blaster para :P. added effect from lizard not nearly so reliable for silence.

Fargann's tp drainkiss is quite useful, but limited while he's under leveled.

Falcorr is useful for zergs especially, but if you are fully buffed, you can reliably drop 50k and 80k fantod > backheel combos depending if unleash is up or not. acc is the biggest challenge there. level 119 would make it more practical.

Julio having a dark based sleep, which is more potent than sheep song anyway, would be really nice to have back. Sheep Song was never as reliable as Soporific. Having basically sleepga 2 back in the bst repetoire would be much appreciated for crowd control. Let alone how potent gloeosuccus and palsy pollen are.

Even though Tortoise Stomp is no Corrosive Ooze, it still quite potent def down. PLUS its nice physical damage from a great tank pet. would be nice to back in the arsenal, but mostly having an Adamantoise and Sabotender is just fun!

Which really IS the point!

[Selindrile]

BST is already better at cleaving than blu or blm. can keep a faster pace, and safer. Bst can solo pull, crowd control, and kill much more efficiently than blu or blm. with good cor rolls and good set, can even 1 shot the crowd, though usually 2 shot. sure a super set for blu or blm will one-shot more often, but bst has less wait time by far. 2 shot, crowd dead, and getting a new group by the time blu gathers the group, or blm waiting for someone else to pull.

Your experiences and mine seem to vastly differ here, Blu of course does the most aoe damage over time, generally speaking but damage isn't the issue as all three jobs kill fast enough to be a tiny percentage of the actual process of cleaving, the issue is pulling, Bst can only efficiently pull mobs that link and don't have AoE autos/annoying aga moves because the player itself is quite squishy, so for large efficient pulls you must get aggro on your pet and then pull with it, which isn't always viable from camp to camp, but situationally is so, Blu's pulling is a lot more straightforward (they also get access to Hippomenes Socks which are huge for pulling, and Phalanx without losing their offhand.) Also pulling on Bst kinda sucks because pet pathing is horrific and they randomly get stuck on the environment all the time especially in Reisenjimma. Blm, by complete contrast to what you're describing does the LEAST damage to large groups (Due to multiple mob damage reduction, which I think is silly and should be removed, but still, damage is mostly irrelevant here) and is THE BEST puller, it's basically invincible for 15 minutes at a time (then you make a trip back to the entrance of the zone you're in to reset).

The reason to cleave on Blm is ease of pulling (due to this you can target areas and pull sizes others cant), Blu is the best for direct competition generally speaking due to the 1-shot spells, large aoe, and quick nuke times, making it harder for others to mess with your pulls which is unfortunately common, Bst is a reasonable middle ground of the two, and does excel on specific targets, I'd call the three of them all worthy of consideration for anyone cleaving though, no doubt.

All the other scenarios you mentioned though, are usually not worth considering or competitive to most players, why would you zerg on Bst when you could do so on SMN from a safer distance with a much larger damage output, Bloodpact spam is simply far faster than Ready spam, though their damage numbers could be quite similar in the right circumstances, the range difference is an absolute no-contest when comparing. Corrosive Ooze's Defense down is super nice, admittedly, but how often are you willing to spend 3 ready moves on it, why use underlevelled Fargann's TP Drainkiss for 3 charges when you can use Mewing Lullaby, and in Zerg situations where ready moves don't matter, pDif is probably already capped due to your Boltering Geo. Sleeps are nice but often enough Brd or Blu or Blm or Rdm will have it covered with far less opportunity cost than the Beast.

Don't get me wrong, I love Bst, I have it mastered, I still play it occasionally for certain situations, I'm just saying I feel like your time (and all of ours) would be better off spent lobbying for more systemic changes rather than super situational pets, I strongly believe that Bst should get it's range back, for example, or access to gear that would actually make it worthwhile to melee with your pet, or cap our minimum ready recast where it is now and give us another -5 to it, (or at least an offhand axe that actually at least has ilevel with ready recast-5 that doesn't stack/break current amount) so we're not chained to Charmer's Merlin forever, glossing over all of these things and saying "Beast is fine" I think just hurts all the players who actually like the job and want it to be used for more than it is now.

[Nyarlko]

I have master BST and master BLU and master BLM. BLU > BST when it comes to mass pulling, up thru Reisenjima levels. I can kill things faster AND safer as BLU. Entomb > Floe > Crush kills most things before they have a chance to hit me back. Can Dream Flower in place of Crush if you'd prefer to chill and wait for pure safety too.) You have to wait for +1 charge after popping a Tegmina for the 2nd one, and I can run thru the BLU rotation in the same amount of time. It doesn't take a "super set" for BLU to one-shot lower mobs. My BLU nuking set is primarily Jhakri+2 and it kills things quite well, TYVM. >:3 BLM is the squishiest and has the hardest time maintaining output vs large number of targets, so I'd pretty much leave them out of this.

FWIW, Fatso Fargann's TP Drain Kiss scales purely as a percentage of target TP based on pet TP, and can not be resisted at all. Used with 3k TP = 100% of target TP is drained. Period. The downside compared to Mew is just the bare minimum 30sec recast as a 3 charge Ready move, compared to SMNs minimum BP recast of 21-22sec. Worked fine even vs the Dullahan (undead) in Ambu V1VD a little while back. Mew was reported as being nerfed in that fight, beyond basic resist mechanics, but TPDK was full strength 100% of the time and 100% accuracy regardless of pet m.acc. Fatso's an oddball maybe, since his other moves have what feels like surprisingly high accuracy, but I've had a lot of goofy fun since I discovered him. The primary benefit to getting a level increase would be survival IMO.

TBH though, far more desirable for me than new/upgraded jugs, would be changing CB/BL to reset timers if we Leave a pet that's at full health, like DRG and PUP. It would open many more strategic doors for the job if it were possible to juggle pets for buffs/debuffs without the ridiculous wait times on our JAs. Even just being able to force appropriate KE for KI would be a solid DD+10%/DT2-10% vs NMs for our entire group for 80% of the time. Once they give me this adjustment, I am definitely going to want more pets though. XD

[Selindrile]

Nyarlko I'd enjoy you showing you what I mean by BLM is pretty much invincible.... that's the reason to cleave on it.

Mewing Lullaby is also 100% accuracy (except apparently a couple of mobs made specifically to counter it) and is a full reset regardless of it's TP, isn't as squishy as underlevelled Fargan and yeah lower timer.

I like your idea, actually the abillity to change pets more freely would be nice, but I still think our biggest issue is being hamstrung by distance, though, and a KI change could be interesting too, I'm not opposed to new pets, but I just think we have bigger issues, player survivability, JA timers, chained to non-ilevel gear, being unable to be effective on both master and pet as melee (due to buff and gear incompatability) are real killers here.

[Nyarlko]

Nyarlko I'd enjoy you showing you what I mean by BLM is pretty much invincible.... that's the reason to cleave on it.

Mewing Lullaby is also 100% accuracy (except apparently a couple of mobs made specifically to counter it) and is a full reset regardless of it's TP, isn't as squishy as underlevelled Fargan and yeah lower timer.

I like your idea, actually the abillity to change pets more freely would be nice, but I still think our biggest issue is being hamstrung by distance, though, and a KI change could be interesting too, I'm not opposed to new pets, but I just think we have bigger issues, player survivability, JA timers, chained to non-ilevel gear, being unable to be effective on both master and pet as melee (due to buff and gear incompatability) are real killers here.

I am fully aware of the power of Mana Wall, and the ridiculousness of extended MW via temps. lol The thing is that BLU can get close to the same toughness as BLM up til around Reisenjima, is not hamstrung by the MTD- effect, and has very hard hitting aoe nukes that have crowd control built right into them.

Wasn't suggesting a change to Killer Instinct. Was only pointing out that being able to quickswap pets like DRG/PUP can would allow us to take full advantage of KI every time that natural/animal Killer Effects are applicable.

[Selindrile]

Blu can't really get anywhere near the same toughness as blm (though yeah this is irrelevant in most camps, they're still more efficient than Bst in most places), and MTD is a nonissue as you reduce so much damage you don't lose any more MP than your natural refresh... which opens up new camps, was the entire point, it opens up all of Reisen as an efficient solo cleave spot, but if you're aware of such why did you mention Blm as being squishy, as with that setup, as you know, they are the farthest thing in the game from squishy, and have no need to crowd control, can just keep blasting while everything dies and not losing any MP, considering their nukes are free as well, though MP isn't a big issue on Blu either, admittedly, the only real issue with Blm is needing to keep refreshing manawall, which is why I too would usually use Blu, but when there's a lot of competition, Blm is a great alternative.

And well without a KI change, you'd still only be able to keep it up on 1 enemy type for 3 minutes out of every 5, though sure it would be an improvement though, I thought you were asking for changes beyond that and I was thinking that could be an interesting way to add utility to Bst.

[Xilk]

are you you cleaving gain xp then? how quickly do you fill up sparks?

Bst is about 25 min

edit:
converting sparks and getting back can take 5~10 min depending on how efficient you are w/ your inventory etc.

I went back to read details and I don't think we are comparing apples to apples when it comes to what we are thinking about when we cleave.

I have master blu and I have cleaved with it alot. also, my gear is similar to Nyarlko's on blu. I don't have mastered blm, though so tell me if blm can cleave at the pace I'm going to describe.

And as nice as manawall is, correct me if I'm wrong, its only up 50% of the time. Which is really awesome, but pretty sure the cleaving runs are longer.

I think the comparison of how quickly you fill sparks from less than 1k to 99k is the best way to compare, but I want to tell you a bit more about bst cleaving techniques, because I don't think you are doing the same thing on bst that I am.

I have not gone to Escha Zi'tah or Ru'aun for cleaving since I was under geared and under leveled. When I talk about bst cleaving its always Reisenjima. If you can't manage in Reisenjima, then you are not really geared for it, whether its blu, blm, bst or whatever. There is better xp/kill in Reisenjima, and bst can do it there no problem. So if you can't do it there, you are not in the same league.

Also, I'm not using Bertha. 2 charge ready moves are woefully inefficient for cleaving. Best bst pet for cleaving is HeadbreakerKen. Cursed Sphere is the most potent, 1-charge AoE ready move; and its magic damage. I'm doing 10k every 10s. I have a little room for improvement in my set. I know a few bst doing over 11k without any additional buffs. for the last 5 minutes (or ~25k sparks) using run wild boosts that damage up to around 12.5k ~13k damage per cursed sphere. IF there is a Corsair around for Puppet's Roll, its all the better, and you are around 15k. You are 1-shotting alot of targets at that point, which is convenient if not a HUGE boost in sparks/hour.

on Bst you are running a constant loop. fight > Cursed Sphere > Heel
Each blast can have from 3 ~10 mobs in it. Its not worth the time to gather larger groups. a Good Bst kills them as they gather them. bst does not need to stop to cast. while Ken is using cursed Sphere, master is already running to next cluster of targets.

You then pull anything not dead in the first blast, to be finished off as you do the next blast on a new group. Its easy to chain 100~150 hardly trying. A really good player chain as long as they are willing to keep it up. I think the highest I've seen was 500. Those are for Power Leveling, not for spark farming. Sparks farming you cap sparks before chain 200 iirc.

it takes roughly 90 min to Power level a job from lvl 1 to 99 with a good, solo BST cleaving. during xp campaign it takes 20 minutes. And a single bst can PL 5 or 6 others at once at this rate.

Can blu or blm really compete with this?

[Selindrile]

Assuming similar camps and competition, Blu should be faster, notably so. Higher level camps aren't as efficient for gain exp which is where BLM shines, so it's not really competitive in this scenario, too much wasted exp overflow when zitah has more packed/efficient camps, so no point to using Blm for gain exp as you're better off targetting Escha Zitah for that.

Actual time to fill varies mostly on how much competition you have in zone/members in your party, but yeah, Blu moves faster which means they pull faster (flee boots), takes less damage, can heal itself instead of having to slowmode engage for trusts or someone else to cure/give them regen, and kills faster, (they both 1-shot anything in Zitah which is most efficient for Gain Exp without buffs), Blu has the larger aoe which means less time waiting for the group to clump, and less waiting if you fail to get the whole group in the first AoE) and no pet-pathing issues to deal with either.

When I was back on Fenrir, I can't say as I timed it but it was extremely fast, though on Asura, hahahaha, no way, zitah is a frigging warzone during gain exp and you're fighting tooth and nail for every pool because there's just people everywhere pulling as they pop.

But, to restate my original point, Bst is actually "close enough" in terms of cleaving, it may not be top dog in most scenarios, but it's fine.... in almost all other areas of the game, this is not at all the case.

[Xilk]

sorry for timing Selindrile, I updated my post. alot more information, because both you and Nyarlko seem to think that bst is stuck in Zi'tah with BouncingBertha when bst has always been in the higher level camp with HeadbreakerKen in my book.
assume no competition for maximum performance, because there is much less competition in Reisenjima, and there are several viable camps as well.


all I can think while reading that about zi'tah is that bst on other servers are 'doin it wrong'.

Edit:

another note, Bertha has very powerful physical AoE, but the range is kinda pathetic at 6'

Cursed Sphere and fireball are probably the same AoE range as most blue mage aoe spells.

[Selindrile]

Nah, Warlike Patrick's Fireball works fine too in Reisen as well, I can get it to about 11k unbuffed on most targets actually, but yes, 90 minutes from 1-99 is absolutely achievable, I've done it all all 3 jobs actually, and timed exactly that, which one is fastest overall I'd be hard pressed to say, but each excel in different camps, and yeah, that's how I pull on Bst with Patrick as well, but that's because of the difficulty of pulling large amounts of mobs there as Bst, it would certainly be faster if you could simply clump all the mobs up and slaughter them at once, less time spent wasted on all those micro-stops using JAs, this is a way you've mitigated a downside, not an upside of cleaving on Bst, and that should be obvious, the upside of Bst cleaving, for me is it's pretty autopilot, Blu and Blm require a lot more attention-paying, but generally have better performance.

[Xilk]

fireball does work, but its weaker than cursed sphere.

If solo blu or blm can PL in 90 min that puts them about even, like you say.

All these jobs can kill large groups very quickly and efficiently.

Next it would become a comparison of larger, slower pulls, or the constant small group pace bst maintains.
AND comparing any upkeep needed for healing, mp recovery, etc

when on blu or blm, you buff up your defenses, run and link a big crowd, then when big enough, or your taking enough damage you need to stop and sleep them, then either nuke them down, or recover hp and some defenses (ss, occultation, cure) then you nuke them down. then you may or may not need to buff again fore the next pull. It was about 50/50 for me needing to buff up again on blu between pulling and nuking. It depends on how big of a pull you are aiming for. How many mobs are you getting in those pulls? 15 ~ 30 I would think. How much time between those pulls? I think you are taking at least 30s per pull solo, and at least 30s rebuffing. 60s where a bst is killing at 3~10 every 10 seconds. So on the very low side its 18 kills from the bst, but average in the middle its more likely 6.5 kills per 10s, and 36 kills in the minute, average to the average of 22.5 kills on the blu or blm. plus bst keeps the chain longer.

I'm just guessing on these numbers based off experience. As you said, the skill of pulling and competition make a huge difference in comparison, but I think he bst pulling method can kill more efficiently and maintain the chain better. Its probably moot at this point. it will come down to how efficient and skilled the players are at the individual jobs.

If you have support, then the equation changes significantly, but it changes for all the jobs the same way.

[Nyarlko]

And well without a KI change, you'd still only be able to keep it up on 1 enemy type for 3 minutes out of every 5, though sure it would be an improvement though, I thought you were asking for changes beyond that and I was thinking that could be an interesting way to add utility to Bst.

Merits add more time. ~4min out of 5 is actually pretty solid, and I've long since ditched my regen merits in favor of KI merits. (Have Shukuyu Sune-Ate, so my Reward setup gets more out of not worrying about Beast Healer merits.) Doing the same thing with BLM, temps can push that KI up to 8min straight, and unlike BLM, KI buffs all party members in range. DT- portion acts as DTII and goes over existing caps (if capped at DT-50% to begin with, then vs NM KI pushes you up to DT-55%, and non-NM would be DT-57.5%) and DD+ seems to be a hard percent added at the end in my eyeballed experience, though I've never done any actual testing.

[Selindrile]

Regardless, even in my original posts, I was calling Bst close enough to be competitive in terms of cleaving, this really has all side-tracked from my whole point, which was that outside of cleaving, Bst is not in a reasonable position for other content, and thus a more systemic change is called for, to fix the more worrisome problems Bst has that I mentioned.

[Nyarlko]

Regardless, even in my original posts, I was calling Bst close enough to be competitive in terms of cleaving, this really has all side-tracked from my whole point, which was that outside of cleaving, Bst is not in a reasonable position for other content, and thus a more systemic change is called for, to fix the more worrisome problems Bst has that I mentioned.

BST is still quite capable of beating the heck out things with jug pets. Our damage potential has not been touched at all, even when the poorly thought out distance nerf was implemented. Yes, I'd like new jugs. No, I don't think that's at all urgent, and that some other actions should definitely be worked on first. Even just the simple change I suggested to reset CB/BL when pets are dismissed at 100% HP would go a long way towards opening doors back up for us in group content, and while it would benefit our groups as a whole, it wouldn't break the game or trivialize content in any way.

As far as unnerfing goes.. If the devs are still too scared of butthurt backlash to fully restore our JA range, then at least everything that's not Ready should be at least the same range as Fight. They'd need to swap our Fencer out for Dual Wield, and give us some sort of job trait to prevent our pets turning to trash if we gear for master stats, if they have any intention or expectation at all of backing up their reasoning for why we were nerfed in the first place.

[vavant]

What needs to be fixed is the out of range bug where iam standing on both my pet and the thing iam fighting saying out of range... When i use ready 2nd is more master+pet gear 3rd is the bs se did with af set effects smn gets the set effect for there pets and master wth doesnt bst or pup get that too??? And bst needs the break pet cap like both smn and pup can idk why se left bst off of it (pup ambuscade cape pet lvl+1 nirvana 119 pet lvl+2)