Looking For More Players On Cerberus.

[Kylos]

I left feedback on this subject a few months ago in the Cerberus sub-forum. My linkshell remains a small group of players. On a server which averages 200-300 players in EU and NA time, we have defeated difficult content together for over two years. However, there are some fights we simply can't find the right setup of players and jobs. Many of us have jobs mastered, and afterglow REMs, but there's a lack of tanks, healers, and niche jobs like Rune Fencer/Red Mage which are geared and have buff items like vorseals from Escha.

I'm at a loss, because I believe I've done everything I can to get players we need online at the gather time with the right preparation. When we do anything big, I announce it a week in advance and ask everyone if they will be present. I reach out to the community and let others know what we're looking for; in case we're going to have spots available. Before an event we might have a no-show or two, so I turn to the server and no one's free to help. It leaves the event ruined as I ask around to no avail. We waste half the night trying to put an alliance together, but ultimately we know it's not enough. You need strong DDs, great buffers, solid healers, and efficient tanks. I do my best to make sure we have everything, but there's not enough choice.

The problem is I don't want to leave this server to find players, as it means I'll have to leave my friends. I can't expect them to jump with me. We enjoy being here, there's just not enough players who need it or will help out. I'm going to keep working hard to make this group capable of beating the hardest content in the game. I will keep reaching out, but it's frustrating. I don't like to say we can't try something because we don't have a good enough setup. If anything would reassure me, it would be acknowledgement of the low server numbers; notably at EU and NA times on Cerberus and possibly other servers. I feel like if we are paying for a service, we should be getting the MMO experience. We have 17 active servers and I'm guessing at least two others are in a similar state. Does Square Enix have any plans for the servers who are struggling to maintain a healthy population?

My group runs on Tuesdays at 10pm BST 5pm EST time for a few hours every week. We may do events on other days, depending on the monthly campaigns. The group is small, but we work well together and always looking to do Omen, Geas Fete, Ambuscade, and other events if people need it. We have two Idris Geos, and plenty of melee power, so we're looking for tanks, healers, other jobs like Run, Rdm, and anything else which may help. We usually give treasure to whoever needs it most, but in most circumstances everything is free lot.

I'm not asking for anything other than a healthier population on Cerberus. I would greatly appreciate acknowledgement of this issue. Thank you. I will try to remain positive.

[DarkValefor]

I'm on the same boat in Carbuncle server. We have a group and are starting to handle big events but the population is low and people keep leaving and others return. I'm also forced to do events at 2-4 am because otherwise we would not have enough people and I can only do that friday and saturday.

Most of the times you can't just fill the right group for endgame. While I was against world merge when it happened, right now I wish they would merge the low population ones. I'm not asking for the population they have in Asura but at least enough people so you can shout for a CP party and actually get a member or two.

[Sirmarki]

Everyone is heading to Asura. I wish I did sooner than I did, as I came from Fenrir which had similar populations numbers to what you have mentioned.

Most of the people I played with on Fenrir are slowly but surely crossing over as it is just not viable to play on servers with such population of 250-300. It's a hard decision to make for a lot of people, as they have an nostalgic/emotional attachment to that particular server. Times have, however, changed...

Make the move and convince your friends to come, especially as it is the discount campaign. There is no point waiting for server mergers which may or may not happen.

[Kylos]

I remain on Cerberus for the sake of our friends. I can't force them to transfer. If we transferred we could probably find the people to do stuff, but we'd be leaving others on their lonesome. I would feel bad running around getting all these things done while the people I brought up through Vagary, Geas Fete and Omen are sat there on the quietest server with no leader. I'm not selfish like that. I'm not in any major rush to get an Aeonic, if I was I'd have been on another server (not Asura ..) a couple of years ago. I continue to prove we can get things done on this server, even if it is difficult.

But it's cool .. my linkshell understands I'm doing everything I can to make a group which can do the hardest content on one of the quietest servers. It's not about being the #1 LS on the server. Hell, it's not even about farming 10 Aeonics for something to do. We do this for the fun, and if it takes a little longer we'll have to endure the hardships and celebrate even harder when we make breakthroughs. I don't have any sentiment to the server itself, I only ever cared about staying on Hades as it was the nicest server around even if it had a low population to the point it was deactivated. It was tough in 2009 before the merge .. but it didn't stop our enjoyment.

[detlef]

On a small server like that, you should consider multi-boxing. How much easier would your Kouryu runs be if you had a pocket BRD, COR, or GEO? It's really hard to get exactly the right people on the right jobs if you don't have mule accounts available to you.

[Kylos]

We have mules available to us, but I personally can't multi-box as I don't have the money or space to buy multiple desktops, multiple screens, and maintain multiple accounts. Unless someone's willing to buy all that for me? I don't think they will. We have a couple of players with pocket buffers, but it's not enough when you can't find a reliable tank, or the healer who said would be there doesn't show up. We have players to do the content, it's just getting them on at the same time. Also, I don't know a single Rune Fencer or Red Mage on this server. So no amount of mules are going to replace a well geared RUN or RDM.

Why does it feel like everyone suggests multi boxing or moving server? Instead of realizing we can't do that and have to beat this game where we are, with who we have? There's no other option available to us. It's up to SE to give us a healthier population so we don't have to spend tons of money to multi box. We shouldn't have to spend extra money so we can server transfer and leave half our group behind. It's easy for those who can afford to multi box, or don't care if they leave people behind (or their friends are cool with jumping), but what about those who have worked hard for years to make a reliable group? Do we get ignored by SE because they think we should put real money into getting a better experience? It's up to the company providing the product to ensure we get what we pay for, and at the moment we are not getting a service which provides choices.

At the end of the day .. it doesn't matter what server you are on, we should have choices. It's up to Square Enix to ensure each server has a healthy enough population so someone can set up an event and get enough players to do it without the use of mules. Most high end content requires 6-12 players, you don't need much more than that. But you can't bring mule whms .. you need real healers. You need real tanks. You need real DD. You can buff everyone to the extreme with an army of mules .. but if the DD ain't getting cured properly because one of the DD is trying to multi box his WHM at the same time it's going to fail. Anyways .. I remain here, trying my best for the people we have. And we ain't leaving, even if it can be frustrating.

[Aysha]

On a small server like that, you should consider multi-boxing. How much easier would your Kouryu runs be if you had a pocket BRD, COR, or GEO? It's really hard to get exactly the right people on the right jobs if you don't have mule accounts available to you.

Not everybody feels like paying $30+ per month (and that's only if you multi-box ONE mule, each is yet another $15).

And then, you would need to buy a Seekers Edition License for each, so that's like what again, $30-40 upfront? So if I wanted to multi-box 3 characters, that's plunking down $120 and then my ~$50 per month in sub fees.

I just don't have that kind of disposable income, lol. I have some, but not that much.

And that's not counting the hardware to do it. I have 2 computers in my gaming room and one in my bedroom, sure... but not everybody has that, or have the room, or are even willing to get that many computers running the game.

And also this whole "GO TO ASURA!" thing.... *sigh* you realize you guys are making the problem worse, right? We shouldn't be encouraging everybody to all pile on the same server. Asura already has problems with crowding whenever campaigns come up and during Ambuscade, do we really want to add to the problems? We SHOULD be trying to encourage people to balance the other servers out some.

That, and I've heard from multiple people that Asura has problems with lesser-skilled players who barely even know how to play the game. Sure you could fill a party chomping at the bit to go to Omen... but chances are, more than half the group can't hack the content because they have pretty much no knowledge of how this game actually works. They were PL'd to 99, and have almost no knowledge of stuff like skillchain+MB, aggro, enmity, or what their stats/equipment even do.

[detlef]

Well, it's something you can do that isn't moving to Asura. Multi-box or don't, I don't care. I'm just providing a possible solution that works for my friends and me on our podunk server.

[DarkValefor]

I've never been a fan of multiboxing but it's true I see many people on these servers do that.

My problem with multiboxing is that I completely refuse to use 3rd party tools and FFXI doesn't support multiple instances. The only time I got myself multiboxing was once I decided to try the game in a VMWare virtual machine but the game didn't run too smooth, and a second computer is not allways an option.

[Aysha]

I've never been a fan of multiboxing but it's true I see many people on these servers do that.

My problem with multiboxing is that I completely refuse to use 3rd party tools and FFXI doesn't support multiple instances. The only time I got myself multiboxing was once I decided to try the game in a VMWare virtual machine but the game didn't run too smooth, and a second computer is not allways an option.

Yeah, I feel the same way -- I avoid 3rd party software like the plague. One, I don't want some fluke happen where I'd blab about it and get caught and get axed, and two I just don't believe that one should need to do that to enjoy the game.

Back when I played WoW before Blizz killed it, I played a minimalist mod setup too, only using mods that made Quality of Life changes (such as Titan Panel), and I did my best to steer away from mods that made actual gameplay changes. I just don't believe in the practice, to be honest.

Now, I *can* do a two computer setup, but the problem with that is, A). one of those computers is not mine, and B). I could only do it while family member isn't playing, and C). if I were to dual-box.... why not just ask my family member to be a human player and come along with me? Problem is, 2 players is still below the minimum for a lot of endgame stuff, which is sad because they allow 3 players to do some stuff, but not 2.

Apparently, SE doesn't believe in couples who enjoy playing with each other, that they think that couples want to bring along a third person or something, lol. We could use more content that is duo-able to be honest, for people who have SOs that they want to get in-game with. Just the two of them.

[Sirmarki]

And also this whole "GO TO ASURA!" thing.... *sigh* you realize you guys are making the problem worse, right? We shouldn't be encouraging everybody to all pile on the same server. Asura already has problems with crowding whenever campaigns come up and during Ambuscade, do we really want to add to the problems? We SHOULD be trying to encourage people to balance the other servers out some..

Not really. People want to go where the action is, and with no sign of mergers happening at this stage - they don't really have a choice. It's that or stare at the Auction House all day.

There are a lot of newbie players on Asura, yes. Obviously with a larger population and the 'recommended place to start' you're going to get that. PL certainly doesn't help the situation.

Trying to encourage people to 'balance the other servers some' will never work in practice. Really, it should not be about us 'working around it'. SE should look at the possible options. Whether or not its merge the smallest populated server to Asura then double up the rest. The problem is with that, is that it will upset a few people due to the fact they have gotten use to playing on their own/with multi-box.

[Aysha]

The problem with trying to mash everybody onto Asura is, again, crowding problems.

The newest content was not designed for high population servers, because other than Asura, we don't HAVE high population servers. I mean, look at how the Apex Camps or even Ambuscade is designed, it's designed assuming there's no more than 50 people at it at any given time (for Ambuscade) and each Apex Camp looks like it could support, at most, 2-3 full groups. Maybe 4-5 if a couple of them were a little slow in pulling, and that's assuming the groups are willing to pull the crap no sane person would want to fight willingly (Matamatas for example).

So trying to glomp everybody into 2-3 mega servers I don't think would really do the game a whole lot of good. Yes, you want endgame options, you want there to be linkshells and you want to have enough people to actually clear content... but yet again, a lot of this stuff was designed around a small number of people doing it at any one time.

[DarkValefor]

I was in Asura for around 6 months and got a lot less done than when I came back to Carbuncle, even tho there were actually shouts, the PUGs I joined in most cases were terrible.

Also people asking for the one specific setup that first beat every monster, people never wanted to try something new, to let me play the jobs I really enjoy, to let me play the game as if it was a Final Fantasy game.

BLU for NMs I can 1-shot as DNC, BLU for almost every UNM, BLU for Reisenjima, even the T1, BLU for Ambuscade.

I feel much more confortable in other servers where people are just willing to try the battles in any available setup, careless they think beforehand they're going to win or not, and actually we get more wins because there's a lot of noob BLUs around.

I also noticed this happened to me more at european times than at late nights but I can't usually play at american times except on weekends.

My whole point is that moving to Asura is not allways the best option.

[Sirmarki]

The problem with trying to mash everybody onto Asura is, again, crowding problems.

The newest content was not designed for high population servers, because other than Asura, we don't HAVE high population servers. I mean, look at how the Apex Camps or even Ambuscade is designed, it's designed assuming there's no more than 50 people at it at any given time (for Ambuscade) and each Apex Camp looks like it could support, at most, 2-3 full groups. Maybe 4-5 if a couple of them were a little slow in pulling, and that's assuming the groups are willing to pull the crap no sane person would want to fight willingly (Matamatas for example).

So trying to glomp everybody into 2-3 mega servers I don't think would really do the game a whole lot of good. Yes, you want endgame options, you want there to be linkshells and you want to have enough people to actually clear content... but yet again, a lot of this stuff was designed around a small number of people doing it at any one time.

Which is why capacity needs to be expanded. Just think of the amount of players online at once time when this game first came around. tens of thousands.

[Aysha]

Which is why capacity needs to be expanded. Just think of the amount of players online at once time when this game first came around. tens of thousands.

Problem is, the areas themselves are more streamlined with less "filler".

There's only so many places you can realistically place these enemies without them getting in the way, or having to make them all non-aggressive (which would make them too easy to camp near).

And it's more than JUST Capacity... again, things like Ambuscade are a problem too.

[Kylos]

Cerberus never has congestion in any content. In fact .. I often have to do /yells to get people to do Domain Invasion, otherwise no one will do it. Ambuscade we rarely have to wait for, unless there's a lot of players soloing. I honestly can't think of any other place where we have to wait to enter. The only reason why CP camps would be congested is the fact SE rarely gives us CP campaigns .. so everyone waits on the campaign and gets it all done then. It's not a matter of server numbers, it's the fact CP campaigns are not frequent enough.

I would like to conduct a yes/no questionnaire for any players who are not currently playing on Asura, Odin, or Bahamut (I assume these have healthy populations). This is more for players on Cerberus, Carbuncle, Shiva (heard it's quiet there too), and other servers which have players facing a similar issue in EU/NA times.

Question 1: Do you feel there are a lack of players at the time you play? (Yes/No)
Question 2: Do you lead an event LS? If yes, do you find it difficult to get players for the events you lead? If no, do you know any event LS who struggle to do events due to lack of players? (Yes/No)
Question 3: Do you encounter severe congestion when doing events? (Yes/No)
Question 4: Do you multi-box? If the answer is yes, do you join other groups for harder content? If no, do you see lots of players multi-boxing on your server? (Yes/No)
Question 5: Have you thought about a server transfer, but have yet to do so (or can't due to other circumstances)? (Yes/No)
Question 6: Do you feel it is unfair to have to pay more money on top of your subscription to get a healthy server with a sustainable population? (Yes/No)
Question 7: If SE wanted to merge your server with another similar server, would you oppose the idea? (Yes/No)

Seven is enough for now. I'd love to hear your feedback. Cheers.

[Shiyo]

As aysha said, telling everyone to just go to asura is just an AWFUL solution. This game, as he said, does NOT support that type of player numbers and nothing is designed with a huge server like asura in mind.

Multiboxing is a pretty decent suggestion, but kinda expensive. However, the "you need multiple computers" excuse makes no sense, how do you need multiple computers to run a game that uses like 150 MB of ram and ps2 graphics card? lol

Question 1: Do you feel there are a lack of players at the time you play? No
Question 2: Do you lead an event LS? If yes, do you find it difficult to get players for the events you lead? If no, do you know any event LS who struggle to do events due to lack of players? No
Question 3: Do you encounter severe congestion when doing events? No
Question 4: Do you multi-box? If the answer is yes, do you join other groups for harder content? If no, do you see lots of players multi-boxing on your server? No Not many multiboxers, I play with a few people but my server has NO shout groups.
Question 5: Have you thought about a server transfer, but have yet to do so (or can't due to other circumstances)? No
Question 6: Do you feel it is unfair to have to pay more money on top of your subscription to get a healthy server with a sustainable population? Yes
Question 7: If SE wanted to merge your server with another similar server, would you oppose the idea? Yes

[DarkValefor]

Question 1: Do you feel there are a lack of players at the time you play? Yes


Question 2: Do you lead an event LS? If yes, do you find it difficult to get players for the events you lead? If no, do you know any event LS who struggle to do events due to lack of players? No, but I have a LS who struggle to do events at the time I play, and they allways end up running at 2am or 3am

Question 3: Do you encounter severe congestion when doing events? No, no congestion at all

Question 4: Do you multi-box? If the answer is yes, do you join other groups for harder content? If no, do you see lots of players multi-boxing on your server? No

Question 5: Have you thought about a server transfer, but have yet to do so (or can't due to other circumstances)? Yes, In fact I transfered to Asura, but ended up coming back, I can't stand not being able to play the game how I like because people are way to stubborn. Between struggling finding people and not being able to enjoy the game I choose struggling finding members and playing solo.

Question 6: Do you feel it is unfair to have to pay more money on top of your subscription to get a healthy server with a sustainable population? Yes, we need a merge like now.

Question 7: If SE wanted to merge your server with another similar server, would you oppose the idea? No, I approve world merge.

[Sirmarki]

And it's more than JUST Capacity... again, things like Ambuscade are a problem too.

Yep, I meant them too. As in expand the allowed instances. It's more Ambuscade though, because with HTB, you can just go to another zone and fight stuff for stones (as people like to go for mainly in Campaigns).

[Aysha]

Yep, I meant them too. As in expand the allowed instances. It's more Ambuscade though, because with HTB, you can just go to another zone and fight stuff for stones (as people like to go for mainly in Campaigns).

Right, so just like that they can flip a switch an add more instances.

I am not sure if you are aware, but a popular player theory (one I happen to agree with), is that there is one-and-only one Abhaljs-Legion zone with multiple rooms in them, as many rooms as they think the server can handle simultaneously.

Adding more would mean creating another zone, or upgrading the servers.

C'mon now... they won't even give us a community representative and they've shelved pretty much all development on the game, heck they won't even give us the Windows UI that was in beta a long time ago, what makes you think they are going to spend money on upgrading the servers to handle more Ambuscade load? They are very clearly in the 'maintenance mode' where they want to the game to run with as few resources spent on it as possible. They are not interested in trying to entice more players to join up; they just want to keep the current paying ones there as long as possible to get monthly sub fees.

[Nyarlko]

Right, so just like that they can flip a switch an add more instances.

I am not sure if you are aware, but a popular player theory (one I happen to agree with), is that there is one-and-only one Abhaljs-Legion zone with multiple rooms in them, as many rooms as they think the server can handle simultaneously.

Adding more would mean creating another zone, or upgrading the servers.

C'mon now... they won't even give us a community representative and they've shelved pretty much all development on the game, heck they won't even give us the Windows UI that was in beta a long time ago, what makes you think they are going to spend money on upgrading the servers to handle more Ambuscade load? They are very clearly in the 'maintenance mode' where they want to the game to run with as few resources spent on it as possible. They are not interested in trying to entice more players to join up; they just want to keep the current paying ones there as long as possible to get monthly sub fees.

It's not entirely theory on our part as the devs have discussed the layer system before regarding multiple instances of the same zone. They are basically running multiple copies of one zone, but there is a limit to the maximum number of copies. And you are correct, it does not appear to be a simple task at all to add more layers. It's always sounded to me like less of a hardware issue and more of an issue with how the backend software was programmed.

In the last AMA, they said that they canned the new UI once they realized they wouldn't be able to have it completed before RoV was completed (and the majority of the staff were scheduled to leave the department.) There's a higher likelihood of seeing a new expansion pack than seeing the UI at this point. :(

[Sirmarki]

Right, so just like that they can flip a switch an add more instances.

I am not sure if you are aware, but a popular player theory (one I happen to agree with), is that there is one-and-only one Abhaljs-Legion zone with multiple rooms in them, as many rooms as they think the server can handle simultaneously.

Adding more would mean creating another zone, or upgrading the servers.

C'mon now... they won't even give us a community representative and they've shelved pretty much all development on the game, heck they won't even give us the Windows UI that was in beta a long time ago, what makes you think they are going to spend money on upgrading the servers to handle more Ambuscade load? They are very clearly in the 'maintenance mode' where they want to the game to run with as few resources spent on it as possible. They are not interested in trying to entice more players to join up; they just want to keep the current paying ones there as long as possible to get monthly sub fees.

No of course they can't just 'flip a switch'. It would require programming, obviously. Upgrading the servers? We'll they did that a few months ago. The 'servers' by the way are probably just a multitude of VM's running on a one server which I seriously doubt would require a huge amount of processing power by today's standards. But, that's all just speculation.

So essentially by your last comment you have resorted to the fact that nothing is going to change, nothing can be done, and it is what it is(?)

[Aysha]

So essentially by your last comment you have resorted to the fact that nothing is going to change, nothing can be done, and it is what it is(?)

Just keeping it real, being realistic, whatever you want to call it.

If something did change, it would surprise the crap out of me. I WANT things to change. I want them to develop new stuff, or finish stuff like the UI, or actually try to make the game thrive again. They've got serious potential here, and they are letting it collect dust and decay, THEY seem to be reserved to just let a what again, 15 year old game with so much history curl up and die after a few years life in a rest home on life support.

It's sad, and I really don't like it, but what can we do? We can only plead as much as we can, and they're Japanese; it's hard to even talk to them anyways. And besides, JP players are already doing that and nothing gets through to the suits&ties that run the whole business of Square-Enix who calls all the shots and they don't seem to care about us all that much. They're more worried about their bottom line, of whether or not they'd get a profit out of assigning any additional staff/developers/what-not to the game, and whether or not the profit was "good enough" for them.

I wish it weren't like this, and I hate to see the game slowly flounder like this, and I really hope they turn it around, that they can see that there are still people who want to enjoy this game, but have trouble doing so in its current state.

But.....

Again.

Reality.

It probably won't happen. Better to expect little and get a lot, than to expect a lot and get a little.

[Kylos]

Please try not to derail my thread. The subject is about getting more players on Cerberus. If we happen to get players on other low-populated servers that's a bonus.

Square Enix .. forum moderators .. I'm still waiting for someone to acknowledge this. I already talked about this on Tuesday night with a SGM and even he .. a SGM, admitted to me that he is fully aware of this issue and so are the other GMs. He told me that there's nothing he can do about it, even if he knows there's an issue and he plays the game too. I don't want to name him though .. might get him in trouble, but he gave me the advice to once again make a post here. I asked him where to put my post and he said to put it in General Discussion. We had a very nice chat, and we ended the call with me calling him a Super GM, and he calling me a Super Kylos.

A really cool guy who probably deserves more from his employers than allowing servers to reach such a harsh point of decline. Again, all I'm looking for is acknowledgement. Do SE even know of this issue? Or are they only looking at JP primetime and taking their "average population numbers" from that? It's what it feels like to me and a few other EU players. Like we don't matter.

[Shiyo]

At this point I'm sick of square enix's funding/priority/development cycles. They literally completely abandoned this game for other games, they use all of ff14's funding for other games, and they give ff14 basically NO funding, no dev team, and the lowest amount of content I've seen in a MMO in my entire life. It's absolutely insane how this company handles it's games people LOVE and have been playing for YEARS and just gives them no life and attention and instead puts all their time into crappy games like FF15 that take 10 years to be made.

FF11 has made Square more money than any game they've ever made, yet they won't even give it a proper dev team or funding? Insanity.

Give your game a dev team and a proper content cycle so people come back. Give a reason for people not to all zerg hop onto asura, keep your game alive and active. Why are you letting your game that made you the most money ever die off? People love this game, no other MMO exists like this in the world, take care of your game.

[Aysha]

and they give ff14 basically NO funding, no dev team, and the lowest amount of content I've seen in a MMO in my entire life.

What in the world are you talking about? Did you really mean ff14 or ff11?

Because I dunno if you know this, but Stormblood just released in July, and it had a fairly large amount of content in it.


Please try not to derail my thread. The subject is about getting more players on Cerberus. If we happen to get players on other low-populated servers that's a bonus.

It is not a derailment at all, as the low population of not only Cerberus, but all servers is directly related to SE's refusal to put any budget into FFXI's development.

No Development/New Content/Bug Fixes/Updates/Etc = more people lose interest in the game and leave which results in servers' dwindling population. The game just slowly stagnates.

[Shiyo]

You probably haven't played FF14 for more than 5 minutes but it literally has less content than any MMO to ever exist, it released an expansion with 2 completely trash primals, and an extremely easy raid. Six relevant bosses to last for 6 months, but in reality it's only two bosses because first 2 raid bosses are a joke and primals are a joke.

Square enix puts 100% of ffxi and ff14's profits into trash games like FF15 and KH3 which barely make any profit, it's disgusting.

[Aysha]

You probably haven't played FF14 for more than 5 minutes but it literally has less content than any MMO to ever exist, it released an expansion with 2 completely trash primals, and an extremely easy raid. Six relevant bosses to last for 6 months, but in reality it's only two bosses because first 2 raid bosses are a joke and primals are a joke.

Square enix puts 100% of ffxi and ff14's profits into trash games like FF15 and KH3 which barely make any profit, it's disgusting.

Wow, somebody's picky. Yeesh.

I dunno, I play FF14 and I thought what was added was reasonable.

Okay, Omega Normal is rather easy. Dunno about Savage, I don't go for that kinda stuff. But maybe they wanted to ship a raid out the door as fast as they could so that they can start on the new glob of content? There's quite a bit of areas to explore yet and maybe they wanted more time to flesh those out? *Shrugs*

I like to take a break sometimes. But going all hyperbole and saying it has "less content than any other MMO" is an exaggeration. There have been other MMOs, plenty of them, that have had less content. What about Warlords of Draenor? Ever played WoW? When WoD came out, it was very shallow. It was basically FarmVille with nothing to do in the actual game world whatsoever, and the raid that shipped with the expansion's launch was "meh".

[Jile]

the low population of not only Cerberus, but all servers is directly related to SE's refusal to put any budget into FFXI's development.

This is indeed the real problem. If SE were to announce a new full expansion with new graphics upgrade patches, a re-launch of sorts and get the game into game stores and ADVERTISE to get new blood into the game (and stop breaking jobs).. we'd have more people than we'd perhaps even 'want' on our servers... lol.

[Aysha]

This is indeed the real problem. If SE were to announce a new full expansion with new graphics upgrade patches, a re-launch of sorts and get the game into game stores and ADVERTISE to get new blood into the game (and stop breaking jobs).. we'd have more people than we'd perhaps even 'want' on our servers... lol.

While these things would help, I don't think it would have THAT big of an effect. A lot of people are skeptical about this game, because it has a history and that history is not really... "compatible" with the modern MMO scene. Those who actually know what FFXI is, know it to be an "old, slow grindy game with low APM".

This isn't exactly false (though some of it is exaggerated). Some people will say FFXI has bad graphics, but THAT I don't agree with (it has better graphics than many games, WoW included if you turn up the resolutions which isn't hard to do).

You can only change so much in FFXI before you start driving away the old veterans who like the game the way it is now. You could add new content, sure (be careful about this, though: if you add content people don't like, it can also drive people away). You could even do the UI to make the game easier to interface with (but you had better make it an OPTION -- there will be people who will dislike it because they are used to the old one).

Graphics upgrade patches? I don't see that as being necessary; this game already looks ridiculously sharp if you turn the background aspect ratio up to 1600x900+. Some people go as crazy as 4k for that and the game is incredibly sharp. Character faces and such look like plastic models, but does every game need to be uncanny valley levels of "realism"? I think there's something nice to be had here, where this came could be different.

Family member I play FFXI with does not like FFXIV graphics, though I don't understand why. They say they don't like the character models... maybe they trigger Uncanny Valley for her? Doesn't me, but I think everybody has different levels of tolerance for that kind of thing? *shrug* That or she is just used to this game and doesn't want it to change.

[Shiyo]

You might have a problem finding people, but on my server there seems to be a problem of "No one wants to recruit anyone" and everyone's "full".

Nobody recruiting is a pretty big problem. On my server you can't even shout for content, and not a single linkshell will invite you. You're kinda stuck in limbo of "Wow, no linkshell is recruiting" even though you don't want to force yourself into content or ask to be carried or ask for loot, you literally only want a linkshell for a chat channel to talk to people and join people who are looking for extra bodies for content(and refuse to shout, because NO ONE shouts on valefor they simply only ask in their ls/friend lists which I'll explain why this is a thing later) which means your only way to do the majority of easier content even stuff like sr/ambu is by being in a linkshell which is LITERALLY just a chat channel at this point but they're "full" so I don't even understand the logic behind "we're full" or "not recruiting".

Then you have scaling content which makes people LOSE THEIR DAMN MINDS, they think if they invite ONE other person that the mob will suddenly become impossible to kill and that person will contribute noting so you end up in a situation where everyone's groups are "full" and everyone is in their own cliques/statics.

Stuff shouldn't scale, it makes players lose their minds and completely forget about inviting someone to help them kill faster because "They might add more hp than damage!".

My server also has this one huge linkshell that's full of awful horrible casual players which has completely turned away all good players and made them never ever ever want to shout group anything and stick to their linkshells. Problem is the good linkshells don't invite anyone in their linkshells and at this point in the game and 2017, linkshells are literally the only way to LFG for content and if you're not allowed into a good linkshell you're pretty much screwed forever.

IDK how to fix this games current state, but making mobs not scale would be a pretty great start, even though 1 player will ALWAYS add more damage than the amount a mob scales by unless they're some useless job(another dd) or just flat out bad, but you should be able to easily tell if someone's bad or not. For example, adding a redmage as your 7th slot will increase kill speed dramatically. However, there's a problem of people being stuck in their ways of using only 1 DD job x2 or pet burning or mage burning or ranger burning and if they do invite a RDM they probably won't take advantage of inundation which is the best ability in the entire game so they'll think a RDM is useless, etc.

Small servers are basically unplayable because the only groups doing stuff don't want anything to do with anyone.

[Aysha]

I'm not sure there IS a way to fix it, other than to make content easier to solo/low-man. But Heaven Forbid you should ever do such a thing in an MMORPG, even one that has servers where it is nearly impossible to find groups to do anything with.

They are basically locking a large portion of the game's content out for a large number of the few players they do have, because it is so impossible to find groups willing to take you, and a lot of that is because of unfriendly mechanics. The game seems to be designed around the sole purpose of creating cliques. This design philosophy might have somewhat worked back in the day to create tight-knit communities, but this will eventually stagnate as people slowly leave one by one, and then when the population dips low, we get what we have today, a few small groups that can do the latest content, and the rest are SOL because nobody wants to experiment or take someone new.

Then MORE content comes out, and the people who are SOL get left even further in the dust and this causes people to leave too, which I can't say as I blame them, being in a hopeless situation doesn't raise confidence or interest any. And I can tell you that poor job balance isn't helping anything either, where people are shoehorned into playing certain jobs, and newer players might not know where what job fits in, in the totem pole.

It's just a bungled mess, and I wonder if SE didn't jump ship because it looks it is not salvagable, so they'll just let it flouder and collect the sub fees for as long as possible, maybe?

What SE *needed* to do, they didn't. They needed to make more casual, low-man friendly endgame activities that one could make gradual progress with, that didn't require 6-18 players (2-3 players + trusts would have been plenty).

They seemed like they were heading towards that with Ambuscade, but then they dropped the ball with the monthly reset on points (so you can't do it gradually, you MUST do it all at once!) and some of the months are just plain stupidly unfair for low-man parties (like this stupid marbol that one-shots trusts whenever it freaking feels like it AND has a hate reset on top of that), and the fact there are no weapons or accessories (which are the hardest thing to get ahold of anything decent) other than capes (a huge grind in of itself) and "meh" rings. Oh, and there's severe job discrimination on armor too -- mages get their best sets that can be upgraded to +2 through metals, melees get stupid crappy stats on their upgradeable armor and their best sets cannot be upgraded, and don't have +2 at all.

[Shiyo]

100% of the games content can be done with 6-8 people but people dual/tri box 3-4 of those support/healer jobs so you end up where people are 3-4 manning content made for 6-8 and they don't want others to join because "muh mob is scaled up".

Mob scaling just needs to go away forever and never come back, it makes people HATE bringing more people to stuff and causes them to think silly things. There's also a problem where no one will level supports/healers and you end up where everyone wants to play a DD when you only have 2 slots AT MOST for a DD in any content in the game so you'd literally rather summon trusts or invite a mule support than invite that DD only player.

[Sirmarki]

They are basically locking a large portion of the game's content out for a large number of the few players they do have, because it is so impossible to find groups willing to take you..

People have to realise that they have to get themselves to a good standard solo before they even think bout getting into the higher level/end game content. A lot of [new] people think "Right, I've gotten myself to 99 (via paying someone to PL) now I'm going to join end game... Oh wait, why is no one inviting me in my sparks gear"? People can't just expect to jump into the highest level content with no effort in establishing ones self, when the next person has spent time and effort into being the best equipped for end game content.

[Aysha]

People have to realise that they have to get themselves to a good standard solo before they even think bout getting into the higher level/end game content. A lot of [new] people think "Right, I've gotten myself to 99 (via paying someone to PL) now I'm going to join end game... Oh wait, why is no one inviting me in my sparks gear"? People can't just expect to jump into the highest level content with no effort in establishing ones self, when the next person has spent time and effort into being the best equipped for end game content.

Not everybody is like this. I, myself, have full Ambuscade (mix of NQs and HQs) with the best 119 weapons I can find, and as many Lv99 jewelry that is reasonable for me to obtain solo. The problem I'm having, is I'm running into a wall everywhere I turn. The content is either entirely unreasonable (like there's this decent ring from Abyssea-Altepa... oh wait, you need to fight 50+ NMs to get it (because of all the NMs failing to drop the item to pop the next one)... and it's a LOT of RNG), or everything else is locked behind "GROUP NEEDED" because how dare we use our Trusts to solo stuff.

I'd love to solo more stuff, but I'm running out of soloable content that actually rewards relevant items that would actually make me better.

Heck, I even clawed and scratched my way to 1200 JP on top of that. I'm missing some spells, but some are just entirely unreasonable (like trying to get to the end of Abyssea for Mighty Guard... sigh)

[Shiyo]

If you're incapable of getting an epona's ring or finish abyssea in 119 gear the game is the last thing you should be blaming.

[Nyarlko]

Not everybody is like this. I, myself, have full Ambuscade (mix of NQs and HQs) with the best 119 weapons I can find, and as many Lv99 jewelry that is reasonable for me to obtain solo. The problem I'm having, is I'm running into a wall everywhere I turn. The content is either entirely unreasonable (like there's this decent ring from Abyssea-Altepa... oh wait, you need to fight 50+ NMs to get it (because of all the NMs failing to drop the item to pop the next one)... and it's a LOT of RNG), or everything else is locked behind "GROUP NEEDED" because how dare we use our Trusts to solo stuff.

I'd love to solo more stuff, but I'm running out of soloable content that actually rewards relevant items that would actually make me better.

Heck, I even clawed and scratched my way to 1200 JP on top of that. I'm missing some spells, but some are just entirely unreasonable (like trying to get to the end of Abyssea for Mighty Guard... sigh)

I think you only need to fight 3-4 NMs for Epona pop. Highly suggest TH8+ THF/war since using that has never taken me more than ~15-20min per pop set, and you can do nearly every proc for KIs. Like most things, that does take a bit of time/effort since a lot of lv1 event/cosmetic weapons are needed, but that applies to every job in this case. All it takes to get TH8+ is reforging relic hands and empy feet (109 feet works for this purpose, but no excuse to not 119 the hands,) which are far from impossible to solo goals.

If you're only goal is to complete Abyssea missions, then it can be done in a day, solo, by focusing solely on getting the boss clears using THF/war. Might be a "long day" tho since I can't remember how many gameday waits there were involved when starting from scratch. ^^;;

The wall you're running into when trying to solo group-based content may just mean that you might want to level/gear other jobs specifically to do so. BST works great for this in my experience, (though killspeed was rather slow when I started out) and I've seen SCH solo some silly stuff using zombie tactics, but I've never had nearly as much success when trying to do so as any melee. Partnering up with a BLM will cut your kill time by at least half when compared to solo as well, and open up more NMs that will be killable.

[Shiyo]

Any TH beyond TH3 literally doesn't matter. You should be NIN/WAR and WAR/THF for KI farming, then MNK/WAR and THF/anything(or any job/thf with a th+1 item on for at least 1 enmity action on the boss) for killing the ring NM during blunt blue proc.

[Aysha]

I never said I can't handle Abyssea mobs, I just said that it is very time-consuming and has a lot of luck factor involved and it's annoying.

Not to mention, confusing.

Sure, you can do it in 15-30 minutes if you can remember what pops what and where. But if you're going in with absolutely no knowledge of the place, the overload of information slows a player down, can cause headaches, can cause mistakes where the player has to stop and look junk up on a wiki every 5 minutes because they can't remember the ridiculously convoluted Abyssea system.

Killing the mobs? That's easy.

Finding time to wade through all the crap? Meh.

[Afania]

You might have a problem finding people, but on my server there seems to be a problem of "No one wants to recruit anyone" and everyone's "full".

Nobody recruiting is a pretty big problem. On my server you can't even shout for content, and not a single linkshell will invite you. You're kinda stuck in limbo of "Wow, no linkshell is recruiting" even though you don't want to force yourself into content or ask to be carried or ask for loot, you literally only want a linkshell for a chat channel to talk to people and join people who are looking for extra bodies for content(and refuse to shout, because NO ONE shouts on valefor they simply only ask in their ls/friend lists which I'll explain why this is a thing later) which means your only way to do the majority of easier content even stuff like sr/ambu is by being in a linkshell which is LITERALLY just a chat channel at this point but they're "full" so I don't even understand the logic behind "we're full" or "not recruiting".


99% of time, "We're not recruiting" is just a way to weed out applicants that "doesn't fit in", period.

I know more than a handful of LS that tells everyone "we're not recruiting" all the time, and yet they still invite people once in a while. Some even have officers/leaders reach out in different communities to recruit new people, and yet in public they still have this "we're not recruiting" message everywhere.

Like looking for a job, my advice is to figure out why you wouldn't fit in, by figuring out what kind of people they want. Once you figure out try to change that on your end. Then approach them with a more polite attitude, just like applying for a real job. Do not ever think you "deserve" a spot in a LS, no LS has the obligation to provide a spot to another random stranger. Instead focus on what you could benefit the team.

If you still can't get in then perhaps it's time to move on (server transfer). Not everyone work well together and sometimes it can't be helped, this is life. My in game and rl experience is, as long as you do have your own strength and isn't an ass, someone out there will want you. Even if that group/company isn't in your hometown or your preferred city/server.

[Nyarlko]

Any TH beyond TH3 literally doesn't matter. You should be NIN/WAR and WAR/THF for KI farming, then MNK/WAR and THF/anything(or any job/thf with a th+1 item on for at least 1 enmity action on the boss) for killing the ring NM during blunt blue proc.

Statistically, higher TH does matter. The only type of thing that TH doesn't matter on would be guaranteed lotto slots (ex: King Behemoth's D.Ring vs Pixie.) We don't know the precise mechanics behind how TH works, and in my experience there do appear to be diminishing returns, but you will get more drops overall with TH8+ than w/ TH3. My THF/war can hit all procs except for katana, g.katana, and g.sword (since I haven't done the Master Trial for the only all jobs one,) and gets most pop items w/in a few kills, so it really does average out to ~20min per boss pop. By comparison, WAR/nin w/ capped merits would only gain easier access to Freezebite (g.sword) and Tachi:Jinpu (gk) but would give up TH8+. You still need an additional skill+9 for katana and skill+20 for g.katana, which is not super simple to get. Even when RNG slaps me around with several katana procs in a row, the increased drop rate on pop items compensates with rapid repops.

I've also seen much better results relying on TH8+ than on yellow procs for the upgrade items like seals, and better results w/ THF/sub than JOB/thf. In general, THF/war will be your best bet for farming aby solo as long as you've already collected all the weapons necessary.

[Shiyo]

We do know the mechanics behind TH.
TH1 = 50% chance of another roll chance
TH2 = 100% chance of another roll chance
TH3 = 150% chance, aka 100% chance of another roll chance, 50% chance of a 3rd.
TH4 = 151% chance.
TH5 = 152%
TH6 = 153%

We've known this since before abyssea.

[Nyarlko]

We do know the mechanics behind TH.
TH1 = 50% chance of another roll chance
TH2 = 100% chance of another roll chance
TH3 = 150% chance, aka 100% chance of another roll chance, 50% chance of a 3rd.
TH4 = 151% chance.
TH5 = 152%
TH6 = 153%

We've known this since before abyssea.

I have read every posted piece of research on this that I've been able to dig up, but have not once heard this ludicrous theory before. Source please. ^^ Preferably post-proc system implementation as well, since there is always the possibility that TH functionality was changed at that time. (I doubt it was changed personally, but eliminating obvious possible issues would be a good thing.)

[Kylos]

How did this turn in to talking about Treasure Hunter? Please .. please, try not to derail the thread any further.

So I'm still looking for players on Cerberus. I'm cool with others from other low-populated servers advertising their groups here. Asurans go to ffxiah.com and recruit there already .. it happens there on a very, very regular basis so it doesn't need doing here either.

Please start your own threads if you want to discuss other subjects. This is a serious post which is still trying to get some kind of acknowledgement from the moderators and SE. Not expecting it like .. but it beats harrassing the SGMs or repeating it in /yells.

[Aysha]

How did this turn in to talking about Treasure Hunter? Please .. please, try not to derail the thread any further.

So I'm still looking for players on Cerberus. I'm cool with others from other low-populated servers advertising their groups here. Asurans go to ffxiah.com and recruit there already .. it happens there on a very, very regular basis so it doesn't need doing here either.

Please start your own threads if you want to discuss other subjects. This is a serious post which is still trying to get some kind of acknowledgement from the moderators and SE. Not expecting it like .. but it beats harrassing the SGMs or repeating it in /yells.

Dude, what do you expect to happen?

You post here asking for "more players on Cerberus" and then talk about trying to get it noticed by SE. What do you want them to do, snap their fingers and make people magically roll new characters on Cerberus? lol. And even if they did, it would be months until they got up to any status where they could be of any use to you in Endgame, because you know, working for charity or paying it forward is not something MMO players typically do (which is part of what was discussed in this very thread). Even Lv99 players are told to go home if they aren't good enough, but yet those same people who are telling Lv99 players to go home because they don't have gear, experience, or know their job inside and out are sitting around whining about not having enough players to clear content.

Well, MAYBE... if you would try to HELP people get up to that level, then MAYBE you would have more people to do stuff with, ne?

Now yes there are some newbies and there are some noobs and it is going to be difficult to tell which a player is within the first 5 minutes. That's why you, *gasp*, invite them, do a few easier bits of content like Delve or something and see how well they learn, how well they react, how much effort they are willing to put in. Give them 1 month time and if they won't shape up/learn/etc, THEN kick them out.

If they do start shaping up and becoming better, hey, guess what? That's one more player you can put some effort into helping and then.. *boom* another player to help you get stuff done. Wouldn't that be nice?

But nope, most endgamers would rather sit on their high horses, sighing wistfully wishing there were more people as good as them to help them clear content, but they forget that there was a day when they themselves were newbies and they had to climb the ladder, too.

They want all the rewards from the newest endgame, but yet they don't want to have to put any teamwork into helping players get up to that content so that there's enough people to do said content. It's just stupid and backwards logic. It's an MMO. You know, that thing where people are supposed to team up to overcome challenges? Nope, they're just gotta sit around moaning and complaining there's nobody to do anything with even though there's probably several dozen Lv99 players who would like a shot but are never given the time of day.

But yelling at SGMs or trying to get moderators to notice this is NOT going to fix the problem whatsoever.

[Kishr]

You have until Aug 31 to move to asura for 10$

[Sirmarki]

You have until Aug 31 to move to asura for 10$

^ To the OP, this. Just make the move. No one is going to move from one dead server to another. People pay a premium to play this MMO because the majority want interaction with groups which are more easier to build and come across on a more active server.

[DarkValefor]

Before you move make sure more population is really what you want, I've already come back from Asura.

Population was fine, Carbuncle was dead on shouts, In Asura you could even see shouts discussing about politics.

The problem is fitting in the group, finding a linkshell open minded enough to join events with the jobs you want to play (tho if you play blu, pld, whm, geo you'll be fine)

The best that could happen is a world merge but that doesn't seem to be going to happen.

[Kylos]

Dude, what do you expect to happen?

You post here asking for "more players on Cerberus" and then talk about trying to get it noticed by SE. What do you want them to do, snap their fingers and make people magically roll new characters on Cerberus? lol. And even if they did, it would be months until they got up to any status where they could be of any use to you in Endgame, because you know, working for charity or paying it forward is not something MMO players typically do (which is part of what was discussed in this very thread). Even Lv99 players are told to go home if they aren't good enough, but yet those same people who are telling Lv99 players to go home because they don't have gear, experience, or know their job inside and out are sitting around whining about not having enough players to clear content.

Well, MAYBE... if you would try to HELP people get up to that level, then MAYBE you would have more people to do stuff with, ne?

Now yes there are some newbies and there are some noobs and it is going to be difficult to tell which a player is within the first 5 minutes. That's why you, *gasp*, invite them, do a few easier bits of content like Delve or something and see how well they learn, how well they react, how much effort they are willing to put in. Give them 1 month time and if they won't shape up/learn/etc, THEN kick them out.

If they do start shaping up and becoming better, hey, guess what? That's one more player you can put some effort into helping and then.. *boom* another player to help you get stuff done. Wouldn't that be nice?

But nope, most endgamers would rather sit on their high horses, sighing wistfully wishing there were more people as good as them to help them clear content, but they forget that there was a day when they themselves were newbies and they had to climb the ladder, too.

They want all the rewards from the newest endgame, but yet they don't want to have to put any teamwork into helping players get up to that content so that there's enough people to do said content. It's just stupid and backwards logic. It's an MMO. You know, that thing where people are supposed to team up to overcome challenges? Nope, they're just gotta sit around moaning and complaining there's nobody to do anything with even though there's probably several dozen Lv99 players who would like a shot but are never given the time of day.

But yelling at SGMs or trying to get moderators to notice this is NOT going to fix the problem whatsoever.

You really don't know me at all. You judge and assume I sit there all day asking for players, when in reality I help a lot of players and have done so for years (ever since the Hades days in '04, thirteen years). I've helped people through all kinds of content when I didn't need anything from it. Assuming I am one of those players is a giant slap in the face. Why are you assuming I am this kind of player? I am not "on my high horse", or "yelling at SGMs", none of that is true. I had a great conversation with the SGM.

I am only looking for acknowledgement. I am not looking for a miracle, nor am I expecting any immediate action. There's a shortage of players in general .. it's not specific to one group. I totally don't mind helping others grow .. because I'm always helping others grow. That's my thing, and it's always been my thing. Now I get back to the game to help people get equipment, vorseals, and clears. I get back to helping players do Domain Invasion. I get back to see how players are progressing, and see if we can team up with others so they can get things done. I'm always helping with party setups and strategies. I keep my members updated, and I'm reaching out for new players to join us almost daily. So don't judge please, unless you know me personally.

PS: None of us are moving to Asura. This is our server, this is where we are, and this is where we play.

[Aysha]

You really don't know me at all. You judge and assume I sit there all day asking for players, when in reality I help a lot of players and have done so for years (ever since the Hades days in '04, thirteen years). I've helped people through all kinds of content when I didn't need anything from it. Assuming I am one of those players is a giant slap in the face. Why are you assuming I am this kind of player?

I never said -you- were, or at least that's not what I meant. I was talking about the endgame culture as a whole, the vast majority are like that. Maybe you are the exception, and if you are, that's good to hear, but sadly there's just not enough players like that around. My apologies if you took that personally; it really wasn't meant as such.


I am not "on my high horse", or "yelling at SGMs", none of that is true. I had a great conversation with the SGM.

Well, ok, "yelling at SGMs" might have been the wrong phrase... I meant "paging them repeatedly" or something along those lines.


I am only looking for acknowledgement. I am not looking for a miracle, nor am I expecting any immediate action. There's a shortage of players in general .. it's not specific to one group. I totally don't mind helping others grow .. because I'm always helping others grow. That's my thing, and it's always been my thing. Now I get back to the game to help people get equipment, vorseals, and clears. I get back to helping players do Domain Invasion. I get back to see how players are progressing, and see if we can team up with others so they can get things done. I'm always helping with party setups and strategies. I keep my members updated, and I'm reaching out for new players to join us almost daily. So don't judge please, unless you know me personally.

That bit I tacked on about people not helping other people was more of a rant at the endgame community itself, and not aimed at you personally. I have seen other people who, like you, post stuff like this, but some of those very people turn around and point their Seattle Space Needle noses up in the air at newbies because they ain't "good enough" and it's a sore spot with me. My apologies if I worded that in such a way that you took it as a jab at you specifically; it was not.


PS: None of us are moving to Asura. This is our server, this is where we are, and this is where we play.

You're of course free to do that... but I still am not sure what your goal was in trying to address this to SGMs or even the developers unless you're asking for server merges of some of the lower population servers (which I think should happen, to be honest). Nobody should be merged with Asura, but yet I think they could take 3-5 of the lowest population servers and merge those together, and it would make everybody's play experience better IMO.

EDIT: Also I'd like to again apologize for any snark or snipping in that post of mine you quoted.. I was not having the best of days and it kinda leaked out into my reply. These last couple weeks RL have been hectic and such, and that CP campaign screwed up my sleeping schedules, and now I got problems at RL work because of a couple problem employees, blah blah. I just want things to go back to normal, lol. But it was wrong of me to dump that in a post in reply to you, and I'll apologize for that.

[Kylos]

I never said -you- were, or at least that's not what I meant. I was talking about the endgame culture as a whole, the vast majority are like that. Maybe you are the exception, and if you are, that's good to hear, but sadly there's just not enough players like that around. My apologies if you took that personally; it really wasn't meant as such.



Well, ok, "yelling at SGMs" might have been the wrong phrase... I meant "paging them repeatedly" or something along those lines.



That bit I tacked on about people not helping other people was more of a rant at the endgame community itself, and not aimed at you personally. I have seen other people who, like you, post stuff like this, but some of those very people turn around and point their Seattle Space Needle noses up in the air at newbies because they ain't "good enough" and it's a sore spot with me. My apologies if I worded that in such a way that you took it as a jab at you specifically; it was not.



You're of course free to do that... but I still am not sure what your goal was in trying to address this to SGMs or even the developers unless you're asking for server merges of some of the lower population servers (which I think should happen, to be honest). Nobody should be merged with Asura, but yet I think they could take 3-5 of the lowest population servers and merge those together, and it would make everybody's play experience better IMO.

EDIT: Also I'd like to again apologize for any snark or snipping in that post of mine you quoted.. I was not having the best of days and it kinda leaked out into my reply. These last couple weeks RL have been hectic and such, and that CP campaign screwed up my sleeping schedules, and now I got problems at RL work because of a couple problem employees, blah blah. I just want things to go back to normal, lol. But it was wrong of me to dump that in a post in reply to you, and I'll apologize for that.

It sounded like it was directed at me which is why I assumed you were judging me. I accept the apology, it's cool.

In lighter news I think my linkshell is getting healthier by the day. We had someone jump from Quetz a couple of days ago, and the recent recruitment drive should make things easier.

However, I still stand by the fact we need more players, no matter how it's done. I never stated we should have a merge, but I'm sure others would be happy to see the lower populated servers merged together. Not that that's the reason why I made the OP, it was done out of frustration as we couldn't get a sufficient group for harder content despite weeks of warning. When we miserably failed our event the other week (we had to do something, better than sitting in Adoulin), it was yet another reminder of the limitations of smaller servers. And as I already stated, acknowledgement would go a long way in giving players peace of mind.

To further this, during EU times through the week we've started seeing average numbers dip under 200 players. This is concerning, and I'm not sure when SE believes it to be critical. I already see this as dire, and the SGM I contacted also expressed frustration (stated he played the game too) with the lack of players. All he could do was apologize and state it's bound to happen with such an old game, in which I responded by saying it's even more important for such an old game to keep players interested by ensuring the remaining are not spread too thin. Any old game has to shut some down eventually, even to the point there's only one server remaining. Clearly we ain't at that stage yet, I firmly believe if we lost 3 of the 17 servers and merged them in to other low populated servers the benefits to the economies and enjoyment of players on each server would be immediately clear.

This seems like a lost cause though. It seems moderators only respond to subjects which are either seriously popular, or points to a major bug/exploit which effects the game. They'd rather not respond and make money from server transfers than appeal to players who struggle on the servers they enjoy playing on. It feels wrong though, to have to pay extra money (doesn't matter how much) on top of what we already do .. just so we can find a server with plenty of choice. We'd like to know if servers like Cerberus will always be around, or if there's a big chance it won't be by 2018. Having this knowledge would help us to determine whether the server is a lost cause, or if there's a chance we'll see an influx of new talent due to other means.

[Aysha]

I do know that one thing they could do that would really help, would be if they would simply change their attitude towards the game.

They have a good number of players, enough that they could surely assign at least 1-2 more people to the development team to actually try to fix up some stuff and add in a few of the easier requests from people instead of just throwing the game on life support and calling it a day.

Don't really get why the upper management at SE got lazy over the game when it still had a dedicated die-hard fanbase and we still get occasional new players. Throwing the game on life support is guaranteed to eventually kill it. But yet who knows, if you keep fixing the game up and adding stuff, it could actually grow healthier. of course, it would never be as popular as FFXIV or WoW, but you could get a respectable playerbase if you'd give the players more to do and/or show that you're willing to actually support the game.

It seems to me that they took a perfectly good game and just tossed it aside, shrugged their shoulders and walked away from it, letting it collect as much sub money as it will until it dies completely, not really caring when exactly that will happen.

Now to make it clear, I am NOT talking about the current development team of FFXI, I'm talking about their bosses, the upper management of SE, the suits and ties that make these decisions. It just seems so stupid to let a whole game go to waste when people WANT to play and enjoy it if only they'd support it properly.

But then again, SE Isn't the only Japanese video game company that does this kind of stuff. Nintendo is right there with them, letting popular IPs sit and rot for years and years and years despite players asking for more.

[Nyarlko]

We are playing Final Fantasy XI, they want the numbered series to be focused on the newest/highest number in that series, even if the play style is something entirely different. It does make sense business-wise to focus on your newest product rather than last year's (or last decade's in this case) model. They've probably been wanting to shut down the servers for the last decade tbh, but are keeping the lights on out of respect for the players' company loyalty (and the steady income that comes along with it.)

[Kishr]

Asura.
Thread closed.

[Justuas]

Pretty sure you can't get done much of the harder content on less populated servers unless you are in an active ls or have friends (or have mules/alts). And since there aren't much yells you'll end up doing easy stuff solo.
And for the "overblown population" claim, I haven't seen that much myself. Plenty of free nm spots in escha, healthy amount of supplies in ah, and ambuscade queues haven't been that bad recently. What's not to love?

Also this is a mmorpg.

[Aysha]

, and ambuscade queues haven't been that bad recently.

That's because Ambuscade sucks to solo/low-man this month.

I remember the ridiculous amount of complaints about Ambuscade Queues on Asura last month when it was far more solo-friendly. And just you wait, if the devs swap the Total Hallmarks vouchers... you'll see ridiculous queues again, esp if it's another solo-friendly Ambuscade.

[Justuas]

That's because Ambuscade sucks to solo/low-man this month.

I remember the ridiculous amount of complaints about Ambuscade Queues on Asura last month when it was far more solo-friendly. And just you wait, if the devs swap the Total Hallmarks vouchers... you'll see ridiculous queues again, esp if it's another solo-friendly Ambuscade.

I agree that the soloers are a problem... we can't do anything about them unfortunately.

[DarkValefor]

Everyone or almost everyone prefers getting both hallmarks and gallantry rather than just hallmarks, in most case, soloers solo because people get really picky with setups. I was one of those soloers in Asura because I was not a BLU, was just an AG mythic + empy dnc and mythic smn.

Here in Carbuncle I allways find the group to do ambuscade with, I never solo

[Aysha]

Everyone or almost everyone prefers getting both hallmarks and gallantry rather than just hallmarks, in most case, soloers solo because people get really picky with setups. I was one of those soloers in Asura because I was not a BLU, was just an AG mythic + empy dnc and mythic smn.

Here in Carbuncle I allways find the group to do ambuscade with, I never solo

Family member and I solo on Sylph, because we've been carrying mules, lol. I doubt anybody wants to carry a 117 mule through Ambuscade to get a full suit of armor, lol. So, we use our best geared jobs to do it. But then, on Sylph, there is almost never a queue and if there is, we simply don't bother, we'll wait and do it some other time.

[DarkValefor]

Family member and I solo on Sylph, because we've been carrying mules, lol. I doubt anybody wants to carry a 117 mule through Ambuscade to get a full suit of armor, lol. So, we use our best geared jobs to do it. But then, on Sylph, there is almost never a queue and if there is, we simply don't bother, we'll wait and do it some other time.

Oh I usually try to bring one or two LS members who are low iLvl to vol 2 runs, This month's ambuscade sucks but normally you are fine with 3 or 4 geared players or even just one geared player, one healer and support. Not like trusts are very well "geared" so I try to bring new players as ambuscade is a good way to start for them.

[Afania]

Pretty sure you can't get done much of the harder content on less populated servers unless you are in an active ls or have friends (or have mules/alts).


Since this is MMO, the point of playing is to join LS and make friends. If you don't have ls/friends already, just make it happen. So this argument of "can't get anything done unless you have ls/friends" isn't quite fair, IMO.

Also when it comes to harder content, LS/groups/friends are far, far, farrrrr more efficient than PUG. Moving to bigger server just to do harder content with PUG is efficiency decrease, not increase.

Smaller servers generally have a tight knit community in ls/friend circles, with pretty strong social connection because everyone (has to) do everything together, and they're very willing to help others. There is a reason why someone in this thread can't get into groups/pug on Asura but totally capable of doing so on Carbuncle in his connections. He's basically competing with 1700 people every time a DD slot is opened in yell, and it's not exactly easy to get in.

I mean, if you like bigger servers and play with strangers all day, while competing with a pt slot against REMA BLUs, by all means go for it. Why do you all have to bash others for preferring smaller servers?

[Aysha]

Since this is MMO, the point of playing is to join LS and make friends. If you don't have ls/friends already, just make it happen. So this argument of "can't get anything done unless you have ls/friends" isn't quite fair, IMO.

Yeah, like you can just snap your fingers and conjure leveled, skilled, and reasonably geared FFXI players out of thin air like magic.

Right.

Do you have human players confused for trust NPCs or something?

[Kylos]

In the next version update SE are changing Ambuscade so the fights last longer and the rewards more plentiful. This will lower the amount of groups entering Ambuscade at any given time. Therefore, we can pretty much put the issue of congestion to bed as Ambuscade was literally the only thing people had to wait around for.

So I'd like to thank SE for noticing this issue and putting a fix in place. However, I still feel some servers could do with being shut down and merged with other similar servers so we can get a good mix of players across all time zones. On Cerberus the EU community is pretty non-existent (which is why my group runs late at night our time, so we can pick up friends from across the Atlantic), and the NA community isn't much more populated than that. It's only when the Japanese start logging in does the server jump from having under 200 players online, to having 4-500. The fact is 4-500 players is still a small average compared to other servers, so I believe some of the JP players on our server wouldn't mind having more people to take along for events.

With the changes to Ambuscade I understand that SE will want some time to evaluate congestion for this event. I understand that doing a merge would bring serious congestion if these changes do not work as intended. They wouldn't want too many JP players on the same server if Ambuscade turns out to be just as bad as it was before the update.

I'm also wondering about the moderators on this forum and why they choose not to respond to posts like this. I feel like if they acknowledged the issue then it gives us an expectation that they will do something. So in other words .. they just ignore us and announce things when they want, not when we ask for it. It's so frustrating that we can't talk to a proper representative who isn't a powerless SGM. I don't want to fight with these guys .. I want to provide feedback, I want to ask questions and hopefully get answers. We love this game, and I believe at this point SE should be doing more to reassure their loyal players. After all, without their loyal players there is no FFXI. That's the whole point of this game which they've told us many times .. FFXI is us. So I hope SE notices this and takes steps to make it easier for us to communicate with them. Again .. not expecting anything, I'm merely making suggestions and hoping that someone can talk to us like human beings .. and not just ignore us because they can't handle answering the hard-hitting questions.

[Nyarlko]

In the next version update SE are changing Ambuscade so the fights last longer and the rewards more plentiful. This will lower the amount of groups entering Ambuscade at any given time. Therefore, we can pretty much put the issue of congestion to bed as Ambuscade was literally the only thing people had to wait around for.

So I'd like to thank SE for noticing this issue and putting a fix in place. However, I still feel some servers could do with being shut down and merged with other similar servers so we can get a good mix of players across all time zones. On Cerberus the EU community is pretty non-existent (which is why my group runs late at night our time, so we can pick up friends from across the Atlantic), and the NA community isn't much more populated than that. It's only when the Japanese start logging in does the server jump from having under 200 players online, to having 4-500. The fact is 4-500 players is still a small average compared to other servers, so I believe some of the JP players on our server wouldn't mind having more people to take along for events.

With the changes to Ambuscade I understand that SE will want some time to evaluate congestion for this event. I understand that doing a merge would bring serious congestion if these changes do not work as intended. They wouldn't want too many JP players on the same server if Ambuscade turns out to be just as bad as it was before the update.

I'm also wondering about the moderators on this forum and why they choose not to respond to posts like this. I feel like if they acknowledged the issue then it gives us an expectation that they will do something. So in other words .. they just ignore us and announce things when they want, not when we ask for it. It's so frustrating that we can't talk to a proper representative who isn't a powerless SGM. I don't want to fight with these guys .. I want to provide feedback, I want to ask questions and hopefully get answers. We love this game, and I believe at this point SE should be doing more to reassure their loyal players. After all, without their loyal players there is no FFXI. That's the whole point of this game which they've told us many times .. FFXI is us. So I hope SE notices this and takes steps to make it easier for us to communicate with them. Again .. not expecting anything, I'm merely making suggestions and hoping that someone can talk to us like human beings .. and not just ignore us because they can't handle answering the hard-hitting questions.

The increased HP/rewards are only affecting VD (and maybe D, not 100% on the translation,) so I honestly don't see this affecting congestion much at all unless it's during a month where V1VD is spammable. It has no impact on those running V2 or lower tier V1. It's also still unknown how much the reward increase is, and if it's not enough to compensate for the extra kill time, people will just start avoiding it.

We basically don't have any mods at this time on the English forums... If you want to have a shot at actually getting something done, you'd have to post on the JPside where even the devs themselves can read/respond to posts. :(

[Afania]

Yeah, like you can just snap your fingers and conjure leveled, skilled, and reasonably geared FFXI players out of thin air like magic.

Right.

Do you have human players confused for trust NPCs or something?

You are missing the point. My point was specifically directed toward some people's comment on these forums whenever server population are being discussed.

Many of these people proceed to claim "small server suck" because "no shout happening, you can't get things done without LS or friends". I personally find such comment biased. On small servers, many of the LS or friend groups are more than willing to invite anyone that can contribute. Since the servers are small, every applicants are competing with less competitions for a spot in event LS or party. Therefore, if someone play on a small server without LS, the only logical explanation is that he never bother applying to any of them.

In other words, the argument of "can't get things done without friends/ls" isn't valid because you can't just refuse joining an LS, then make an argument about small server suck for those without LS.

On the other hand, on a bigger server every LS/groups/Party applicants are competing with more people for a slot, it's not necessary easier to get stuff done. Same can be said for people only wanting to play with PUG then proceed to bash NotAsura servers. I'm having very hard time imagining if PUG provides reasonable progression efficiency to justify all the negative comment towards NotAsura servers.

That being said, if people prefer Asura, just go ahead. It's by no means a bad thing to play with 1700 people and enjoy lower price items and a more active market. But for those who prefer other servers, it's nice to have alternatives and different options to choose from, instead of listening to people bashing NotAsura servers 24/7.

I upvoted Kylos's posts about his LS progression on every forum. He is working hard to prove that Asura isn't by all end all the only choice for people wanting to make progression. Many of the LS/players on smaller servers are totally capable of getting everything done, from CP to T4 to master trials, with efficiency one tier above PUG. Not many LS advertise themselves as hard as Kylos, which is unfortunate because other people wouldn't know about other alternative options as much. If I don't already love my current LS very much and play on different timezone, I'd totally hop server to help him succeed.

[Sirmarki]

He is working hard to prove that Asura isn't by all end all the only choice for people wanting to make progression.

Might hit a giant wall with that one.

Last month (campaign), 20+ people I KNOW of (then add on the ones I don't) crossed over from Fenrir to Asura. From what I hear, that's almost 10% of the overall European/NA time population number on that server (200-300 people online).

[DarkValefor]

All that people moving to Asura are making it so profitable to SE that I don't think they will even consider a world merge.

[detlef]

If you want to keep your backwater server going, help every stranger who shouts for help. If you aren't helping with pickup groups then you're doing your part to push them off the server or out of the game entirely. Even if you don't need what they're shouting for.
Not addressing OP directly, just saying in general it's the healthiest thing you can do.

[DarkValefor]

If you want to keep your backwater server going, help every stranger who shouts for help. If you aren't helping with pickup groups then you're doing your part to push them off the server or out of the game entirely. Even if you don't need what they're shouting for.
Not addressing OP directly, just saying in general it's the healthiest thing you can do.

Except there aren't any shouts at all. Not sure about Cerberus hbu Carbuncle is quite dead at EU times. At NA times it gets better and shouts happen, and of course I help them, I help anyone if I'm not busy and we have been.recruiting many people we've randomly helped but I still think SE should consider a world merge while I don't think they'll do it. I think Asura is not allways the best option.

We've been also recruited people that like me, came back from Asura. They weren't happy about not being able to play the jobs they liked, about most shouts asking for REMA weapons on easy NMs or even Ambuscade and that in Asupeople want to charge you for almost everything. NMs I can kill for them in 10 seconds people charging 5 millions for a drop.

And yes, I have joined good linkshells in Asura too and played with very helpful people but that used to be at EU nights and on weekdays around that time I was sleeping. I just think Asura can be a good idea for some people, but It's not for everyone.

Some of us don't want to play the 3-4 most common jobs, don't want to have to read a guide before we just attempt a battle, we don't care to have a learning experience and wipe to a battle or two and have some fun and in Asura it felt like you weren't allowed to play to enjoy.

This is pure opinion and based on my experiences which of course don't match everyone else's but should be enough to understand some of us want a merge badly.

[Afania]

Might hit a giant wall with that one.

Last month (campaign), 20+ people I KNOW of (then add on the ones I don't) crossed over from Fenrir to Asura. From what I hear, that's almost 10% of the overall European/NA time population number on that server (200-300 people online).

I don't mind people prefer it at all. Some people just like bigger servers.

I only disagree with people pop on the forum claiming Asura is by all end all the best server for everyone on the planet. Pretty much every server discussion thread would have at least one person like this.

And it's nice to see others providing a linkshell option for those who prefer other servers.

[Shiyo]

If you want to keep your backwater server going, help every stranger who shouts for help. If you aren't helping with pickup groups then you're doing your part to push them off the server or out of the game entirely. Even if you don't need what they're shouting for.
Not addressing OP directly, just saying in general it's the healthiest thing you can do.
I'm going to have to disagree with this for a few reasons.

The people shouting on Valefor are nearly always looking to be CARRIED, not helped. A great example is a few days ago a BLM was shouting for reisen NMs while having 3 pieces of sparks, non-ambu cape and a +2 int neck. There is no way that person can contribute to the bosses death on that job - yet they still shouted AND fought the boss on that job. They were literally carried through content they shouldn't be allowed to do on their BLM. If they wanted to ask for help, they'd play a support or a job that can actually CONTRIBUTE to the mob dying and not have floored magical accuracy.

I examined them today and they now have merlinc hood from the NM they were shouting for with 2 pieces of sparks gear instead of 3. Since they were carried, they now think it's ok to ask to get carried more. They will keep expecting it, and instead of leveling a support like geo or brd or even WHM like a good player would do before they gear their dds/nukers, they instead just show up contributing nothing thinking it's ok because they were carried once, and now that's their expectation.

Helping anyone asking for help, while an extremely nice thing to do, doesn't actually build better players or make things better. That person will eventually reach a wall where they can't be carried, get frustrated because so used to being carried, then either quit or transfer to asura and get carried more. They also skip so much character progression that they'll run out of things to do and quit much earlier, meaning helping that person did nothing good for the server or your community.

Players should be taught, not given free things.

[Kylos]

Between 2004-2009 I did nothing but help others. Of course, I leveled my DRK up to 75 and beyond when Abyssea came out, but in the early days I had a mentor who became a legendary figure by fathering newer players. My social linkshell revolved around the values he bestowed, and I still have the "Story Of Seiya" (we loved the guy that much we needed to pass his story on) somewhere which goes into intricate details of what he did for us.

So for someone to advise me to .. "help others so they can help you", is like trying to tell an ice-cream man how to make ice-cream. It feels a little insulting but I understand that most players won't know our history and I wouldn't expect them too. So below is a brief history of what my father Quilly & I have done in this game.

My father and I led two sister social linkshells on Hades which shared players (before it was merged), where we helped anyone and everyone without asking for anything. We did this for many years .. and got much respect from those players who grew up. But when we wanted to do something serious, rarely could we find anyone to help us. When we did find help it was usually one of those players we'd helped out when they were newbies. But it was a little concerning .. seeing those newbies we'd helped be so much better off than us. They'd joined endgame groups and achieved great things while we sat in Bastok waiting for newbies with question marks above their heads.

Times changed and players changed with it. They'd become self-efficient thanks to amazing guides and wikis. I managed to find a few new players and tried to help them .. but I'd spend days helping some of them to find out they'd just up and left the game without warning. This happened several times before I grew frustrated helping strangers. It felt like .. 1) the newbies who grew up were too busy with their endgame LS to help us in return, and 2) the new players we found didn't respect us enough to simply show gratitude after we carried them through something. My dad & I went through several players not asking for anything .. and they came to expect us to hold their hand through it all instead of trying to be self-efficient.

So we had to change philosophy (more me than my dad). Instead of helping new players, I wanted to get in to endgame events and help players achieve their goals. I joined a couple of dynamis LS and learned the ropes before I and a few others started our own. For a couple of years we destroyed dynamis twice each week and had some of the most fun experiences I've ever had. With the same name as my current (Reality), we defeated Dynamis Lord several times and even tried Diabolos in Tavnazia. I still remember when we got our first RDM Hat, BLM Hat, and THF Hands in Xarc .. as well as our first city clears and Valkurm Dunes win. We made a group which was so efficient I wish I could go back in time and play in that group again; it was the greatest linkshell I've ever had the pleasure to run with. But after a while it became too much of the same .. everyone had everything, and I decided to leave the game for a number of months shortly after Abyssea came out as I had no motivation. To be honest, I was going through a rough time in my life and FFXI wasn't doing it for me.

So it was around 2012ish that I just decided .. screw this, I'm coming back and I'm going to wreck Abyssea. We tried to help people .. but the game had changed so much. I thought about joining an endgame LS but couldn't find anything which suited us and our times. If someone was polite enough .. I'd find some time to help them out, otherwise I was more interested in becoming strong and accomplished. I was tired of being known as the gimpy DRK who couldn't hit a thing. I was tired of looking at other players with their amazing equipment and feeling like I couldn't do the same. So from 2012-2015 Quilly & I focused on making relics and getting better equipment in Adoulin. I joined an endgame LS to get us clears for Delve .. but they couldn't help us so I ended up clearing them in 18-man PUGs which I set up and lead. I had a couple of friends who were excellent with strategy and were seriously geared, so I tagged along in some of their events to learn the content. It felt great being able to join events, instead of having to set up and lead everything myself. I was obviously very grateful for their help, and the knowledge I gained remains with me.

A couple of years ago, I noticed someone trying to merc Vagary clears for stupid amounts of gil .. which irked me so badly I made a linkshell (VagarySpeaking) completely dedicated to running Vagary once a week. I did this because I knew there were so many players who were skilled enough, but just didn't have a group or knowledge of the event. Slowly, but surely, over a few months, VagarySpeaking recruited members and learned the content. I got battle strategy advice from leaders of other linkshells (thanks Avalon) and players on ffxiah.com as I wanted to ensure we could get clears for people. I was so thankful for the tips, as we had setbacks .. but after further practice we were able to figure it out. Just like Reality, VS became strong enough to clear 1-5 easily in a couple of hours each week. I was happy to help people get their clears instead of being forced to pay extortionate amounts. I was in line to get a Tartarus Platemail .. and the LS really wanted to see me get it. I never did, as Plouton is the tightest guy around, but we did manage to get nine other players the platemail via the Odyssean Passage. It was never the main goal to get me a platemail .. it was to help players get clears. I still don't have platemail, but nine others do, including Quilly, so I'm happy in the knowledge. But just like the old Reality, Vagary became an event we didn't really need anymore. It became a force of habit, and there weren't many who needed clears anymore.

As the server got smaller .. and smaller, I found out one day that the linkshells main PLD (the guy who thought of the LS name) had moved to Asura with his friends. He apologized for leaving us, but also thanked us for all the good times. It was the best time to disband VS and turn it in to something which could grow beyond it. I wanted to help players grow by doing events like Geas Fete and Omen, so It was the best time to bring Reality back from the dead, and luckily a few loyal VS members signed up right away. And just like all the other linkshells I've lead or co-lead, we did our best to get players and help them achieve their goals. I still maintain Seiya's values, except I don't waste my time on players who want to be carried. I don't have have my group merc things for people .. because I'd rather see them gear a job and join us like an efficient player so they don't have to pay us. As for helping people in random yells .. I feel like the game is easy enough for players to get to a certain level where they can join our events and not feel like they are being handheld.

I still do help people in Quillys social LS if they are polite and seem like the kind of person who would join us for the big stuff when they get stronger. I'm always giving random bits of advice, as you rarely see anyone doing that these days. I'm not against someone sending me a /tell asking for tips for a particular fight. If I'm not doing anything .. I might go help them. Otherwise I'll give them the knowledge to be self-efficient, and encourage them to find others who need the same thing so they can grow up in the game together.

At the end of the day .. I have, and continue to do everything in my power to help others. I can't hold their hands .. I can't carry them, but I can give them the knowledge and pass them on to other players in a similar situation. I'll always give someone a chance, and often enough I don't check people if I invite them to ambuscade for example. Sometimes we end up with a player who isn't ready for the content, so I politely tell them they need to gear up more before they can join us again. I don't mean to insult them, but it's unfair to the rest of the group if we have to carry someone. And sometimes this message spurs them on to improve and eventually join us again .. or they annoyingly look for another group willing to carry them.

Some players are looking for an easy ride, and I think that's only cheating themselves out of playing this game as the developers intend. I am always teaching .. and I am always learning. I really can't do anymore at this point, I have two jobs .. a daughter, and many other games waiting to be played. I dedicate my time to helping those who I can trust to play this game and enjoy it, while we all reap the rewards without giving pearlsacks or myself special treatment. Equality is something I've always believed in, when it comes to a linkshell group. We pretty much give whatever drops to whoever needs it the most, and I think it's great we can all trust each other that much. I think it's great that even on this "backwater server", there's groups of players having a blast and doing it like a family unit.

[detlef]

I'm going to have to disagree with this for a few reasons.

The people shouting on Valefor are nearly always looking to be CARRIED, not helped. A great example is a few days ago a BLM was shouting for reisen NMs while having 3 pieces of sparks, non-ambu cape and a +2 int neck. There is no way that person can contribute to the bosses death on that job - yet they still shouted AND fought the boss on that job. They were literally carried through content they shouldn't be allowed to do on their BLM. If they wanted to ask for help, they'd play a support or a job that can actually CONTRIBUTE to the mob dying and not have floored magical accuracy.

I examined them today and they now have merlinc hood from the NM they were shouting for with 2 pieces of sparks gear instead of 3. Since they were carried, they now think it's ok to ask to get carried more. They will keep expecting it, and instead of leveling a support like geo or brd or even WHM like a good player would do before they gear their dds/nukers, they instead just show up contributing nothing thinking it's ok because they were carried once, and now that's their expectation.

Helping anyone asking for help, while an extremely nice thing to do, doesn't actually build better players or make things better. That person will eventually reach a wall where they can't be carried, get frustrated because so used to being carried, then either quit or transfer to asura and get carried more. They also skip so much character progression that they'll run out of things to do and quit much earlier, meaning helping that person did nothing good for the server or your community.

Players should be taught, not given free things.I've had this debate many, many times. There's a fine line towards between helping and carrying. I think you make a good point, that player I was helping probably didn't contribute much. Maybe didn't know much about the fight. I probably did too much for them. But I don't think that's a bad thing.

That player at least identified what gear he would need. You can argue that a new player should cut his teeth with ilvl JSE or Skirmish or Delve. Or farm Ru'aun abjurations and then finally move on to Merlinic gear from Reisenjima T1s. But I don' think it's reasonable for someone to be able to get help at every step like that. I think it's much more reasonable to treat obtaining Merlinic gear as the baseline and then let the player demonstrate competence with his dedication to suitable augments (competence in gearing himself I mean).

Where I'm going with this is that I view this instance as helping someone get to a point where they can potentially prove himself in a group setting. Without Merlinic or Amalric gear he's going to have a rough go of it in any situation. So it's just a question of whether reaching that gear baseline is the endgame in and of itself or if it's a doorway to bigger things.

Question, what strategy would you advise for this player? If shouting for the Morbol NM, getting 2 helpers, and failing miserably (before I helped) didn't work, what would you suggest he do instead? Not putting you on the spot, just wondering what you think that person should have done to progress without being carried?

[Shiyo]

I intentionally didn't mention anything about you helping the person and wanted it to be left anonymous.

A good solution is that you tell them person "I'd help you if you had proper gear to ACTUALLY hit the mob or you leveled a support/whm to heal or buff me. However, right now, your gear is far too weak to contribute to killing this boss and you should work on that, or as I said, work on leveling a job that can do harder content with MUCH less gear requirements".

That guy basically learned nothing from getting carried, probably doesn't know proper gear sets, was using the wrong sub on BLM, and probably doesn't even have any JP(Which MASSIVELY increases your performance on BLM). He put in zero effort, and got all the reward. That's a very, very, very bad thing to teach some undergeared player, and an exceptionally bad habit for them to get into.

However, if you gave him helpful advice he might've listened. He would've learned something, and perhaps become a better player from it. This is also a great way to find new members for linkshells or people to play with(especially important for small servers like ours and kylos'). You can build good players, but just handing them free stuff doesn't help the problem Kylos and every other small server like his experiences.

[detlef]

What gear should that player realistically shoot for if we're saying that Reisen gear is too high to shoot for? I think it's a little too restrictive to say do this and then that and then you'll be ready to do Reisen. Like, should I say, sorry you can't come on BLM, you have to have Ru'aun gear at least. Except he'd need the same help for that gear which would have a lower drop rate, be more expensive, and would still be obsoleted by Reisen gear. I mean, no matter what the dude's not gonna be able to gear his BLM without a pretty substantial amount of help.

Now with all that said, I think you've made some good points. I'm pretty sure I didn't adequately explain the whys and hows of every NM we fought and I couldn't even tell you if he was hitting his stuns or his MBs. That's something I'll try to remember for next time.

[Hawklaser]

On this whole help/not help front, I just want to give some input from the side that may need help at times. As with having taken breaks a couple of times, I have been in an odd boat and needed help a time or two.

I never wanted to be carried and did everything I could to climb the gear ladder normally and contribute to the events I needed gear from. The problem comes in when you hit the points where you need extra players to clear content to get the gear you need. You can't expect everyone to love and level every job, I personally can't stand blm and it will never go above 50 for SJs. So you can't expect everyone to have a job that can solo harder content with trusts when barely geared. This applies to all steps of gearing up beyond sparks, as not all jobs can reliably clear the content leading up to Ambuscade/Reisenjima with trusts without being well geared to begin with. So sometimes those needing help end up in a Catch 22, can't get the gear they need to do harder things solo, and can't get help for getting the gear as they are expected to be able to solo that content. And when one hits one of these spots, about all they can fall back on is doing long grinds for REM or JP which can take a couple month's and hope its enough to push them over the edge to clear things if it doesn't cause them to put the game down first. When I came back pre-adoulin, I couldn't get help to get the atma/gear needed to get to the point could start gearing up by myself and took another break, this time when came back I did get help to get up and going again and been much more enjoyable.

Either way, helping vs carrying someone is always a fine line. In this stage of the game, I'd almost say normal quality ambuscade set and possibly a 119 unity weapon is a good starting point to get people to, and then see what they do with that before jumping them to reisenjima gear if its someone you don't know and are not gearing them up for LS events. As that should let them start working through the upgrade chain themselves for a bit so they can figure things out, as that would let them get to a point can contribute to lower difficulty ambuscades, and possibly start soloing them if needed to start getting the +1's or +2's, which would open more things up.

[Kylos]

https://www.bg-wiki.com/images/thumb/1/1e/Adventuring_Primer.png/690px-Adventuring_Primer.png

Ok so here's where I outline what someone can do to at least give the impression they are gearing up progressively. It's fine to ask for help on stuff, but if you show up with no AF, Relics, or Empys in sight and expect to get Merlinic Hood (I had to go through many hoops for my first Reisen gear), I'm going to assume you're punching above your weight.

Making your way to 99: What anyone should do the second (or on the way) they reach level 99 is quest all the artifacts (even if you know they will end up stored on slips later). This is a vital step in being able to do higher content, and they're far easily reforged than the relics or empyreans. You can solo farm sparks in a number of ways (I have a "lazy" tip for those who don't have a lot of time to wait on Gain EXP, but it's more for a returning player who did much of Voidwatch), and you really shouldn't be using sparks for gil at this point. Save up all the chapters you can find, and use places like Dynamis and Salvage to earn you easy gil.

Reaching for ilvl: Next up you'll likely be buying sparks equipment, as well as making your way to Adoulin. The peacekeeper's coaltion has good sets of equipment for entry level, and you can buy these with bayld. You'll have to do some work though .. do what everyone else did when they got to Adoulin: 1) Do lots of easy quests, 2) complete different quests from coaltions, don't just stick to the colo/lair reive assignments .. try others too. A mix of AF, sparks, and bayld gear is going to be enough to do early Adoulin content.

Adoulin: I think many players underestimate the power of the expansion and want to bypass it by jumping straight to Reisenjima. You can't! Not unless someone is nice enough to hold your hand through it. You really need to get the Home Point Crystals to Wildskeeper Reives so you can pick up easy equipment when there's a WKR campaign on. But don't wait for someone to start one! Do a /yell and ask players if they would kindly come to Ceizak so you can try this content. Don't just sit there all day hoping and praying someone comes along.

Dynamis/Abyssea - With some kind of ilvl equipment, Thief w/ trusts will destroy Dynamis and Abyssea. It won't be difficult to find relics with some Treasure Hunter, then you can start working on reforging them. As for Abyssea, you really really want the Abyssea campaign to get hold of atmas and other cool things which will make your life easier. **If you can't do this I would recommend asking around, doing yells, look to see if anyone needs the good atmas from Abyssea** -- I usually use Razed Ruins/Gnarled Horn/Voracious Violet .. and these days you have trusts too, so NMs are not scary in the slightest unless you aim for the hardest ones in the last three zones right away. Also atmacites are very important in Abyssea .. gotta collect as many as you can as they are permanent buffs. As for the Empyreans .. you won't be able to reforge them easily at this point, but at least they are ready and waiting.

Practice Solo In Arrapago II - You can get a good gauge (this is only for jobs like THF, BLU, DNC etc) of how strong you are by soloing this Salvage for gil. If you can't kill the Armored Chariot in under 3 minutes, you need more practice, better equipment, or a mix of both. The bosses test how strong you are against magical attacks. If you die too much on these, you may need to come back later when you have better ilvl equipment.

Skirmish For Damage Taken - - It's crazy when players completely disregard defensive equipment. Of course there are way more options for PDT/MDT at higher ilvls, but most of 'em you won't get til much later and you need something defensive. If you're a THF for example .. you'll be wanting the full Iuitl set augmented. Don't worry too much about getting them +1 at this point .. although the +1s will certainly last longer. The problem with getting +1s is you have to do Outer Ra'Kaznar skirmish which is not easy to get too, and not many players will want to do it. Black Mage is simply amazing in Ra Kaznar skirmish .. so if you're playing that job, this skirmish is a wonderful test of your solo ability.

And Beyond - Now it's getting to the point where you need to do some serious group content. Not only should you get Rhapsodies of Vana'Diel completed (there's always people willing to help out on the awkward fights in that story), you should try (or ask very, very nicely) to beat any high tier mission battlefield on Normal. This will open up Oboro weapons which can be expensive .. but will give you a weapon suitable of harder content. From there you can think about doing Sinister Reign, Vagary, Unity, Incursion, Delve, and so much more that will get you closer to being acceptable for Escha/Reisenjima.

This sounds like a lot work, but players have to remember that much of us worked through all of this over several years, bit by bit, and we couldn't shortcut our way through it by getting a Merlinic Hood because it didn't exist. Think about where you are, and see if you can find a way to solo it with trusts. Better yet .. and I always encourage this, find other players in a similar boat. It's way easier to duo/trio the earlier content as you can mix and match jobs and play to each other's strengths, while shying away from weaknesses. This effort goes a long way in showing endgame event LS leaders you have the will, and the patience, to play this game in the way the developers intend. By asking for shortcuts .. sure, you can start augmenting your Merl Hood pretty early, but you could never kill that NM again by yourself to get two more.

I have to admit though, I got a bunch of my Reisenjima equipment from the special Domain Invasion event which dropped all that stuff like rain. Not all of it though .. my first pieces came from my event LS figuring out how to kill T1s as a group. We didn't jump straight to it though, we killed Zitah NMs up to T3, and Sky NMs up to T2s before we even thought about Reisenjima. Vorseals are everything .. gotta catch 'em all. And that right there .. is just a brief rundown of what you can do to show you're serious and don't want handouts. Show you can be self-efficient .. be a cool dude/dudette, and better geared players will feel more inclined to spend their spare time helping you.

[Shiyo]

What gear should that player realistically shoot for if we're saying that Reisen gear is too high to shoot for? I think it's a little too restrictive to say do this and then that and then you'll be ready to do Reisen. Like, should I say, sorry you can't come on BLM, you have to have Ru'aun gear at least. Except he'd need the same help for that gear which would have a lower drop rate, be more expensive, and would still be obsoleted by Reisen gear. I mean, no matter what the dude's not gonna be able to gear his BLM without a pretty substantial amount of help.

Now with all that said, I think you've made some good points. I'm pretty sure I didn't adequately explain the whys and hows of every NM we fought and I couldn't even tell you if he was hitting his stuns or his MBs. That's something I'll try to remember for next time.
Ambuscade is for starter gear. Mog kupons give you free skirmish/alluvion skirmish gear from the tutorial, however ambu can be solod on e-n or at least duod on N consistently to get full NQ jhakri(which would take like, 3 days). Amalaric gear is pretty bad and expensive, psycloth gear is pretty awful, ruan is not the starter gear. You want jhakri, which has tons of acc(all ambu gear does) for a REASON and is F R E E. The reason being it's STARTER GEAR meant to let you BE ABLE TO CONTRIBUTE ON ANY JOB. Sparks gear is not that, sparks gear is "I just dinged 99 and haven't done anything". Reisen is the end of the gearing spectrum.

Carrying someone from sparks to reisen gear is something you would do for a mule, not some new player. Also carrying someone through ambu to a full NQ set if a MUCH more efficient and better use of time than reisen NM's. They can also generally hit ambu mobs even in sparks gear if you do it on lower difficulties, meaning they'll learn how to play their job, and you will get rewarded for your efforts with RMEA mats or capes etc. Ambu is literally designed for veterans to help new/returning players and reward everyone equally. It's fantastic.

If people can't even get themselves STARTER gear(Ambu), how do you even know they have their emp weapon skills? Or their trial weapon skills(if a DD), or even their merit WS? Or hell, even merit abilities? Doubt the dude even had mykr, he was basically asking to be carried.

Rule of thumb: Don't help anyone in content if they're coming a job that has FLOORED ACCURACY for said content.

[detlef]

Fair enough. I guess we have different views on what's easy to get and what the minimum baseline for gear is. In your eyes, Ambuscade gear is starting gear. But in my view Reisen gear is the starting gear. So in my view, I was helping said player get to a gear level where he might be able to contribute.

It sounds like a lot of people think you have to cut your teeth doing lower level content for gear that will be replaced very quickly but I don't know about that. Difference of opinion I guess.

[Kylos]

I'm also inclined to say Reisenjima equip is not starter gear for the majority. Also cutting your teeth doing lower level content gives the player experience and knowledge of new monsters and battle systems. It's not just about finding stopgap gear, it's about learning how all these events work so you can adapt to new monsters and battle systems later. It's also about exploration, and opening up the game so when a leader asks "you got the warp to here?", you can say "sure, I did Adoulin missions and got the HP crystal before I did Hades". Obviously that's just one example .. I can't begin to count how many times a player has turned to me and said they don't have something they really should, so our group has to wait half an hour for them to travel across the world to get that one warp point so they can come back later.

On the other hand though .. if this person is a friend and you know this person was an exceptional player before they left the game, you could go and shortcut 'em right through and bestow knowledge on to them. But it really depends on the person .. like, for example: I have a friend named Overlordandy and he left the game for a few years. He's pretty much the most efficient player I've ever known (he was the one who taught me how to pull Dynamis back in the day) .. he's stupidly awesome at getting things done with little wasted motion. So I helped him and his wife get some equipment which bypassed a bunch of the earlier content. Once we did that I gave him the gist of where to go from there, and low and behold, he and his wife managed to join my Vagary LS very shortly after, on jobs which were certainly geared enough. Now they are part of JP LS, have multiple Aeonics, and have done Master Trials.

In other words .. "starter" gear depends on how good the player is, and what their relationship is to you. Merlinic is starter gear for the absolute best returning IF they are your good friends .. otherwise a stranger is likely going to need Ambuscade and everything else to convince others they can be trusted to invite.

[detlef]

If I had to guess I'd say this guy was probably bad. Didn't know him, just answered someone's call for assistance. Thought I was doing a good thing but everybody seems to think it was wrong. Interesting responses.

[Shiyo]

Ambu gear won't be replaced very quickly. You heavily underestimate how powerful ambuscade gear is, especially +2 gear. Some of the pieces are BIS are a very, very, very long time, especially if you don't get lucky with augments. Also, how do you even know the person has gil or stones to augment their gear? No way can they kill reisen mobs in sparks, lol.

Please look at jhakri +2 gear:
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Category:Ambuscade_Rewards#Jhakri_Armor_Sets


Compare it to this:
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Amalric_Attire_Set

No magic accuracy on boots or legs, and a low amount via augments compared to jhakri's 40+. Low int in comparison to jhakri's. Less refresh than jhakri even at +1.

Compare to this:

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Category:Escha_Rewards/Arcane_Glyptics_Inscription (merlinc)

MAX augments (nearly impossible) 40 MACC 40 MAB. To make any of this gear better than even +1 jhakri, would requirement TONS of stones and extreme luck, nearly max augments on every single piece of gear for MAB and MACC.

Then for magic bursting, you have this set:

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Ea_Attire_Set

Even with ea, you'd still want jhakri boots and body for refresh and being a good MAB set.

Our server, and I'm guessing other small ones, seem to not understand how to keep players around. If you teach them properly they'll want to stick around more than if you just get them stuff for free.

[Kylos]

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.