Implement Weekend "Double Everything" Bonus Please :D [Archive]

Aysha

08-21-2017, 12:48 PM

I don't see why campaigns are "bad" for the game?

C'mon, Capacity Points are boring as all crap. I don't think anybody actually enjoys old-style XP parties (only this time, it's CP). Same song and dance, pull mob, skillchain+magic burst until it dies, rinse, repeat. Only now instead of IT++ we are fighting IT++++ and you need ridiculous endgame armor for some of them.

It's the same old thing over and over and over and over and over and over, and the 2100JP grind makes old Lv75 look like child's play and I remember those days of getting 100-200 per kill and needing 75,000 IIRC for Lv74->75. That's 375-750 kills.

To get 2100JP, even at 15k CP per kill, you're looking at 4,200 kills. Well, ok, slightly less because you get Capacity Bonuses along the way, but still. It's more than 2,000. Easy. It's just simply not fun, and unlike levelups, you don't get easily-seen bonuses, and the gifts while nice, most of them don't make a noticeable impact on your character that you can notice by eyeballing the chat window (you'd need a parser to notice until you stack several of them together and compare yourself to someone who doesn't have said bonuses).

Crafting Campaigns allow players to do a little Lv71+ catchup (there's enough 110 players around that everybody and their brother is 110 in their chosen craft), I don't really see the harm in this because now we're getting KIs from the Escutcheons (which are a much more terrible grind than original 1-100 craft was before all the changes) that are *REQUIRED* to make certain items now.

They add more grind on top of more grind and they wonder why new players are finding it hard to swallow. And then, we got the veterans who are not making things any better by saying things like "Campaigns are bad for the game". What they REALLY mean is "Campaigns allow people to get to where I was with less effort than I put in and I don't like it."

I leveled to Lv75 once, and it doesn't bother me that people can blow to 75 in a weekend. In fact, I did 75->78 with a 2-person party right after the Abyssea addons were released. We used Emperor Bands (when they were 3,000 max) and the Field Manual at Valley of Sorrows. We would spend 2, 3, 4 hours half falling asleep doing 40-50 a kill before all the XP buffs, it took weeks to get that far. We eventually quit because the grind was just too much, too boring. We came back to the game a bit later when the grind was lessened, but we quit again because XP was just too slow and this was right after Capacity Points were introduced and we saw the atrocious grind (Lv95-100 mobs were only giving 50CP per kill and you needed 30k for ONE job point!? lol).

Then they did the whole RoV thing, and we came back after hearing about mounts and all the RoV stuff. And now we're playing again, but only because the grind was lessened. But even after all the buffs, Grind is still Grind, and it hasn't gotten any more enjoyable. There's just less of it and you get your rewards a little quicker, especially during Campaigns.

Getting 25k+ off of Apex Raptors sure beats getting 8k. Getting a Job Point every other kill is way better than getting a Job Point every 4th kill, especially when you need so stinking many of them to get anywhere.

I'm not becoming a better player by killing the same stupid thing thousands of times. Killing the same thing 1,000 times vs 10 times doesn't change anything, it doesn't get stronger or harder. It does, however, test my patience and my sleep apnea. There have been times I've actually fallen asleep at the keyboard because it is so boring and repetitive.

This is not how to entice newer players (or returning players) to come to this game when there are other MMOs that are 50x more engaging (game play-wise) than FFXI is.

So can you guys please stop flying the "Campaigns are bad for the game" banner? I couldn't disagree more. Campaigns make stuff possible for the people who lack endgame linkshells, and SE knows it. It's just they got too many people in endgame linkshells whining that casual players are getting some of their rewards "too easily", even if a lot of these rewards aren't even worth all that much in the end run. A 110 crafter without an Escutcheon is nigh-useless. A 2100 JP Master is nigh-useless without actual equipment (the Su2 weapons aren't even that great and are expensive and hard to find on my server anyways).

So what's the big deal about allowing the little guy to get a leg up?

Nyarlko

08-21-2017, 01:23 PM

I think that a large part of the anti-campaign sentiment here is more about how they tend to focus the entire playerbase into a small handful of activities while they are active. Will you see a lot of people grinding thru Voidwatch when there's no campaign? Not likely. DURING a campaign though, you'd be lucky to find an uncamped ??? for any of the NMs that drop HM Pouches, and likely to see entire alliances hanging out by each one, for the majority of the time that the campaign is active. How often do Domain Invasion dragons die on Sylph when there are no campaigns up for it? I'd be willing to bet that Azi Dahaka (Escha-Zi'tah) basically never goes down, since that is how it works on a heavier population server like Asura. Campaigns are not necessarily a "bad thing" period, but certain ones do have a greater impact than others, and not always purely positive.

I estimate that I saved ~1000-1500 logs this week leveling Woodworking from 25>106.6 so far due to the crafting skill up campaign. That's ~100x stacks worth of mats that I would've had to buy from AH or farm that are not buyable from NPCs, so that's a rather large economic impact (and most likely why the devs have classified it as a "powerful campaign" that they intentionally avoid using frequently.) It's also a rather large time-savings, which also means that I've burned through part of the game's content much quicker than I would have otherwise. In my case, I was actually able to make it almost entirely on what stock I had hoarded away, which would have been almost impossible to do w/o the campaign. The campaign enabled me to essentially remove myself from the economy as far as the task was concerned. Great for me, bad for sellers.

So it's not necessarily so much a "You can't have it easy because I didn't have it easy when I did it," kind of thing. It feels like there is a worry that everyone will burn thru content too fast and end up getting bored/quitting.

Also, I find it hard to believe that there are more than a small percentage of players who would actually agree with the OP. What was asked for is massive overkill no matter how you want to look at it. About the only thing I would agree with would be the increase in regional currencies, and probably excluding bayld/silt since they are the easiest to get right now.

Aysha

08-21-2017, 07:14 PM

I think that a large part of the anti-campaign sentiment here is more about how they tend to focus the entire playerbase into a small handful of activities while they are active.

I suppose I understand that sentiment.

The solution is obvious: Middle-ground it. Perhaps every week, pick 1-2 major activities and 2-3 minor ones and add small bonuses, and have them rotate each month, kinda like the Limited-Time RoE Challenges, and let players know what these are in advance.

That way, you make things less grindy, you encourage certain activities during certain weeks, but yet the bonuses are not crippling enough, that you don't feel like crap if you miss one. It would add up over the long run.

Perhaps something like...

Jan. Wk 1: XP/CP Bonus: +50% per kill
Jan. Wk 2: +25% chance of crafting skill gains
Jan. Wk 3: Voidwatch Bonus (half as good as the current campaigns)
Jan. Wk 4: All Mog Tablets + Double Flotsam
Feb. Wk 1: +50% Escha Silt gain
Feb. Wk 2: +50% XP/CP bonus

etc. With the most common (XP/CP) being once per month and everything else being rotated through the months. That kinda thing. The thing is to give more bonuses, but each bonus be smaller so that it is not so world-ending if you miss one.

I estimate that I saved ~1000-1500 logs this week leveling Woodworking from 25>106.6 so far due to the crafting skill up campaign.

Why 25-106.6... why didn't you get Wood up to 70 and then wait for the campaign to do 70->110? Or didn't you have enough time to get it up that far before the campaign? Double-Skill gains mean nothing when you're guaranteed .1 every synth as long as you're not over the recipe level, lol.

Great for me, bad for sellers.

The Mog Garden already does that; don't need no special campaign for that. I've leveled my Goldsmith from ~80 to 105 now and I've bought almost nothing from the AH other than a few Elemental Ores, lol. I get so much Silver and Gold ore now that I am getting to the point I vendor silver, and Gold.... I'm going to start vendoring that too because the AH is too saturated. Darksteel? The only profitable way to deal with absolute flood of Darksteel is to make Darksteel Items and vendor them (until/unless they nerf the sell-to-npc prices, blah) because nobody wants Darksteel, stuff is nearly as easy to get as Tin.

So it's not necessarily so much a "You can't have it easy because I didn't have it easy when I did it," kind of thing. It feels like there is a worry that everyone will burn thru content too fast and end up getting bored/quitting.

But yet, without the gains people quit without ever finishing and that's even worse. If you finish everything there is to do, then yes you will walk away bored, but at least content that you got to see the majority of the content. If you get bored to tears to the point you just can't continue because everything is so stupidly repetitious, then you end up quitting with a sour taste in your mouth.

Players will quit eventually, there's no avoiding that. You can't run an MMORPG forever with zero new content. Rehashing Ambuscade every month is not going to keep FFXI perpetually alive. We need new content, otherwise we are going to have to prepare for the inevitable. Trying to keep the game alive for longer by making players grind their eyeballs out on tasks so boring and repetitive that a newbie coder could code bot scripts to do it is not the way to accomplish things.

Also, I find it hard to believe that there are more than a small percentage of players who would actually agree with the OP. What was asked for is massive overkill no matter how you want to look at it. About the only thing I would agree with would be the increase in regional currencies, and probably excluding bayld/silt since they are the easiest to get right now.

No, I don't agree with the OP, they are too extreme. However, I understand the spirit/underlying cause what caused them to suggest it. There are things in this game that are simply not fun or interesting, but we do because we must, filler content. Capacity Points are the most egregious.

Shiyo

08-22-2017, 04:41 AM

Campaigns are bad and need to go away forever. Most of the campaigns need to be nerfed by about 50-75% and implemented into the game permanently, like JP should always be +75-150% more per kill and dragons should never fly away or pop adds, vw should ACTUALLY be doable in 2017 with capped lights(No, it's literally not doable unless you enjoy paying for $17/monthx10), etc etc. Most content is basically unplayable or flat out not realistic to do unless a campaign makes it playable, like dragons and VW. No ones gonna be able to find enough people in 2017 to do content like that, but campaigns nerf it enough that it's doable in 2017's player base, which is stupid because then you're forcing people to do x content during y campaign.

If you want your player base to burn themselves out and have cyclical subs instead of steady subs(are you trying to be ff14? the no content simulator mmo?) then keep campaigns, if you want STEADY subs for years, which tbh sounds like more profits to someone with basic math skills, then you should probably remove campaigns forever and implement their bonuses at a massively nerfed rate base into the game so all content can actually be done.

TLDR: Update your damn games content and stop relying on crappy campaigns to make tons of content ACTUALLY doable in 2017.

Nyarlko

08-22-2017, 06:29 AM

@Aysha:
I'm not really keen on the likely to accompany weekly maintenances that a short-term campaign schedule would bring with it. I don't trust the devs quite enough to believe that they'd have the system setup properly so that they wouldn't need to reboot the servers to turn stuff on. Converting to a short-term schedule would also likely ingrain the urge to utilize the flavor of the week even deeper into us.

I leveled WW on a whim tbh. lol I had three thousand logs clogging up that mule and enough crystals in storage to pull it off. She's 110.0 now by the way. ^^ I have always agreed that the skillup campaign did exceedingly little for 1-60, but I tried being lazy and took some recipes all the way to +10 past cap. I was still getting ~90% skillups even that far away, so I now think that it at least increases convenience since it's possible to use a single recipe for 15-20 full levels if you have reasons to do so. Also managed to cap off a 95BC during this campaign, so that gives me access to 3x capped crafts (LW/BC/WW) which is kinda nice. Also made myself a spiffy signed Su2 crossbow for Nyarlko's thief as my first non-skillup synth. :D

I have 12x Mog Gardens running, where do you think I got all those logs I was choking on? Or where I got all my BC mats when I leveled that? :3 I actually did buy a bunch of Guatambu Logs for the 106+ stretch, but expending less than 1mil for a capped craft sounds like a good deal to me. Enough stuff has been selling already that I think I'm close to break-even. Now for the monumental task of leveling allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the subcrafts. @_@

@Shiyo: I agree that Domain Invasion dragons' flying needs to go away forever. It's the primary obstacle preventing consistent kills IMO. Adds can be annoying, but they do scale with the number of players present, and can generally be AOE'd down rather easily, so I don't see them as much of a problem as flying. Flying causes Trusts to glitch out and force flails once they land, if there is more than one tank trust then any that are not the mob's target will slowly slide around from the front to the back, trusts don't know how to move out of the way when they get drawn-in, etc.

Aysha

08-22-2017, 06:47 AM

Nyarlko

08-22-2017, 07:30 AM

I would agree that a permanent 50% would be a good solution too, but they seem to want the spikes in player activity that they do every month for some odd reason. They seem to think that this is the best way to keep players active, to rotate different activities. Problem is, too little too sparse. Yes, you bring everybody to the Apex Mobs with CP Campaigns, but when there's no CP Campaigns, I almost never see shouts for CP groups in the cities, and the Apex Camps are nigh-empty 'cept for a couple no-lifers that are always there 24/7 (probably botting at that).

It boils down to SE trying to keep the game afloat without any new content for long stretches of time by inflating the amount of time it takes for us to get stuff done. Problem is, that's not how it works. Make it take too long and players will simply quit out of boredom.

And yes, old content needs to be made do-able, either by nerfing to allow low-man groups, or changing the mechanics to adjust to today's playerbase numbers.

I've long maintained that obsolete content such as Delve should be nerfed to allow for solo play with trusts by people wearing lesser gear. Right now, you got this endgame model where it is impossible for the little guy to progress past Yorcia Wield Skirmish and Ambuscade NQ because everything else requires a group and is tuned way too high to even think about doing it with trusts, even if you have the best Trusts. It's "get an endgame shell or go home", but what does the newbie have to offer an endgame shell?

It usually boils down to "play a support or go home" because support is what every shell seems to want, because the ONLY shouts you see are for GEO, BRD, or rarely BLU. Sometimes WHM once in a blue moon. GEO and BLU take a ridiculous amount of prep work to actually be useful to your group, BRD to me looks like the most boring (but hectic) job to play and I dunno about WHM. Been wanting to try that, but eh, how do I get practice and how would I convince an endgame shell to take me in when I have zero skill (or might as well be zero -- I used to heal way back before Afflatus days) and next to no gear to offer them?

So, with no Endgame shell, I'm locked out of 90% of the endgame content at 119 and even some stuff less than 119 that is simply tuned too high to be solo'd due to horrible mechanics, such as mobs unequipping your gear in Ra'Kaznar Skirmish. Most lame mechanic ever.

I run a social-that-does-stuff LS on Asura. I enjoy collecting stray players whether new or returning. I think it's fun to get fresh players into the game and help returnees get back up to speed. My standard welcome gift is a free EZ T1 clear (and T2 if they can help offset the pop cost since I'm not rich,) with me dboxing once they have at least one 99 job. It helps to have a stock of vorseals and they get all the drops. So it's not everyone everywhere that excludes lower geared players for everything. ^^

I agree with you on Delve entry requirements and don't understand why they still require 3man to enter. I don't agree that anything should be actually nerfed tho, since it's not actually obsolete content. There are several drops that are still good/unique/desirable, plus plasm is linked to Ergons, so I don't see any difficulty changes incoming ever. Group content is group content however, so it doesn't make any sense to nerf it to easily soloable in sparks tier difficulty if groups are still doing it.

The demand for support is because everyone seems to want to play a DD. Most gamers like big numbers (especially damage dealt) and support jobs don't tend to directly cause much damage at all even if they are indirectly doing so by buffing others. Plus gearing a modern BRD is a nightmare. ~_~;; GEO is actually very easy to gear as most of the AF/relic/empy armor reforges are what you will be using the most and they even start off as 109s. BLU's challenge is just learning all the spells, gear-wise it's not that different from any other melee/mage. I don't know WHM well enough to say too much about it tbh, but you might want to look into reforges for it, and Vanya set from EZ T1s should hold you over for quite a while on at least cure potency I'd think from looking at the stats/augs. There's a nice WHM staff from UNM too.. Think it's Arke? The one in Sauromuge Champaign. :x It's a BRD/WHM greater bird, and the most threatening thing it does is Benediction once per fight, but it's a pushover.

Normal Skirmish doesn't have much worth the effort to obtain as far as I know, so I think you'd only need to clear it once for ROE? (Please correct me if this is wrong. I skipped it entirely and going off the very dismissive feeling I had after looking at the drop/aug lists.)

Shiyo

08-22-2017, 08:02 AM

Demand for support is because if you're undergeared, you're not coming a DD. You also only need 1 DD to kill any boss in the entire game(and a good corsair that does damage, or two dd's if you can't get a good corsair). Adding another DD to a party ACTUALLY lowers the damage if the DD gains tp slow, can't hit the mob, or can't do a 3 step skillchain with the other 2 dd's. I'm not joking, I've literally kicked a DD and then killed mobs 2-3x as fast, there's actually "too many dd's", and that's past 1+COR or 2 DD's.

You want 3-4 supports and 1-2 DD's. Everyone also wants to come to content with their 800 acc warrior/dancer dualwielding eminent axes/swords.

Aysha

08-22-2017, 08:29 AM

Not "everybody" is like that.

I finally got my BLU up to 1200JP thanks to this campaign, and once I get a couple spells, I'll have what "Out of the BLU" (a guide on BGwiki) says is the "optimal DD set list". I'm wearing Ambuscade (a couple of the pieces are +1), etc. Not the best gear, but certainly better than 117s lol.

But meh. If I have to gear up a support, it will take awhile, but I don't really mind doing so, I just don't want to be locked into that and only that. The support classes do not sound like they are fun to play whatsoever, or maybe that's just BRD or GEO, lol.

Shiyo

08-22-2017, 10:04 AM

Aysha

08-22-2017, 11:42 AM

Blue mage is the last DD I'll ever invite to content, they are a solo only job. I'm ok with forcing a bluemage to be my tank + skillchain opener in JP pts though, got 5m/hour with that set up. Job isn't meant for dealing damage in proper party comps, though.

I've done a few ambuscade PUGs with a couple BLUs and they seemed to do quite well. They've got some good support, They've got some good off-healing, and a crapton of utility depending on what they sub and are incredibly versatile. Not sure I'm seeing what the problem is.

But whatever. *shrug* You're not even on my server so I don't really need to care about your opinion, no offense meant.

Shiyo

08-22-2017, 11:49 AM

Yeah, bluemages are good when your support are non-existent or so bad they might as well not exist. That's why people think bluemage is a good DD. It's honestly as low tier as ninja when in a proper party comp.

Aysha

08-22-2017, 01:23 PM

Sounds more like we have a couple overpowered jobs that need good hard nerfs to be honest.

*shrug*

Nyarlko

08-22-2017, 09:06 PM

Sounds more like we have a couple overpowered jobs that need good hard nerfs to be honest.

*shrug*

:? Haven't really seen anything here that would indicate that. BLUs self-buffing capabilities are only truly valuable when you have support players in the party who don't properly support. Also, you won't see stellar damage output from a COR unless they have the gear to back it up (and same goes for everyone.) I can't say that there are any jobs that warrant nerfs at this time.

I never use BLU to solo NMs since BST is far safer/reliable for stuff like that, or if I'm looking for drops and it's safe enough to melee, then I'd go THF instead. All three are mastered and geared "well" but not BIS since Oseem hates me. :( Not that I actually "solo" anymore ever since I started dboxing. >.>;; 2nd account has master BLM/BLU as well, and BST+BLM wrecks everything below 126, and have been doing so long since before either was mastered.

I think that the OP's request comes down to "I want to do things that are further above my level than possible now." If you are working on CP, then higher level targets can put out more CP/kill than the easy stuff like Apex Crabs, but if you aren't geared enough to handle the higher level targets, then you aren't going to be successful with them. For example, Ra'kaznar Apex give ~40k-60k CP/kill w/o any campaigns, rings, or chains. That's plenty, since the hard cap on CP/kill is 65535. XD Campaigns effectively nerf the difficulty/time or flat-out remove/bypass mechanics in related content, which is not always a bad thing, but nerfing everything so that the player gear/skill baseline goes down to below ilv117 is not actually needed in any way.

This is a multiplayer game, content is designed/balanced for party play, and we don't need to forcefully convert it so that everything is soloable and doable in less time than it takes now. Lowman strats are supposed to be used once you outgear the content or are looking/expecting a real challenge, not the point that the game is balanced around. You can't expect to jump into "endgame" content in ANY game without preparing for it, so do your prep work, do your research, and find a party.

I still agree that a boost for old regional currency would be very much welcome, but think that should be a permanent addition rather than a temporary campaign. I also still believe that none of the other requested items are at all necessary, and in fact, would be detrimental to the health of the game.

Kishr

08-23-2017, 01:37 AM

Where you get the time to type so much

Kishr

08-23-2017, 01:38 AM

Noone will respond that wall as always

Aysha

08-23-2017, 02:34 AM

@Kishr: Not everybody has a slow typing speed, and some of us have attention spans longer than a goldfish's memory.

@Nyarlko: Well, when a few support jobs are valued so highly over everything else, DPS jobs included, it sounds like support jobs just need a nerf in general. I find it absolutely silly that having more than 2 DPS in a 6 man group is a "DPS Loss" because somehow getting more support is better than having DPS jobs, but yet there are simply more DPS jobs around than support ones. Sounds like, again, those support jobs need heavy nerfs and mobs re-balanced to account for it.

As for BLU and solo, well. There should be something called, you know, choice in what we want to play as? Not everybody should be shoehorned into multi-boxing and/or playing BST or even BLU. We should have a choice on what to play, but because of unbalanced game mechanics and severe player bias, everybody's shoehorned into specific setups. Even if the game mechanics didn't force you to use such, you're still forced because nobody will invite you if you don't have THE jobs they want, out of this list of what again, 22 jobs, there's only 3-4 jobs that are actually wanted anywhere. And from what the other person said, 99% of the time they are Support jobs. lol.

So yeah, Support needs a nerf. A big huge heavy one. Anytime you hear players saying "It's a DPS loss to get a DPS instead of a support", you have a situation where support is entirely too valuable.

Urmom

08-23-2017, 03:55 AM

On anything dangerous enough to really care about danger blu and bst are fairly similar in terms of how well they can solo. At least now post nerf and 1 vs 1. And while other jobs catch up blu still a really strong DD in decently buffed situations. Really anyone with access to cdc/savage blade is

Kishr

08-23-2017, 04:17 AM

goldfish

Goldfish should be respected.

Shiyo

08-23-2017, 07:01 AM

Support aren't overpowered. Support have ALWAYS been better than adding more dd's, since level 75 cap, since zilart. You only need enough DD's that they can skillchain (good cor + a good DD can skillchain together) forever.

Another DD just complicates things with skillchains most of of the time.

Supports need zero nerf, geo was just a mistake.

DarkValefor

08-23-2017, 12:01 PM

In my experience BLUs tend to actually kill those skillchains for other DDs making them top DDs in party with their CdC spammage but then with the same support abd other DDs when I remove the BLU the mob starts dropping faster.

But this is only with the typical BLU that only knows to spam CdC and don't even want to participate in another skillchain. Normally when I play with this kind of BLUs my damage drops to 33% but they don't really care because theirs is slightly better.

When you play with real BLUs, those who can actually do more than CdC spam, they are at the level of a real DD, and they are also increasing your damage because MG is a really cool buff.

But yeah I remember once fighting with a BLU that couldn't use a Requiescat once every 1.5 minutes (Climactic Flourish recast) on that ambuscade boss that was only weak to piercing just to open darkness for my 50k rudra +99k sc because he was too busy spamming 3k CdC.

Aysha

08-23-2017, 12:07 PM

Well, don't assume every BLU is like that.

During the CP campaign, me and family member (BLU+THF respectively), I did nothing but spam Requiescat to open for her RS so that Shantotto would be happy with casting Stone, Water, and Blizzard the whole fight, lol.

In fact, I had to teach her the timing and everything so she could get the hang of it. Worked out much better htan stupid Tenzen screwing stuff up. So we booted Tenzen and got Kupofried in and mobs died faster so we got better XP/hr and then +20% per kill was a nice little cherry on top.

My point in this is, not every BLU is like that. I mean, I wouldn't mind learning the skillchain and hoarding TP to use my WS outside of SC+MB if I had to, or even find some way, regardless of how, to use one of my WS (even equipping a club if I had to) to participate in the skillchain.

Or even not WS at all; if it were to b ea benefit I'd even spam waltz if it meant better performance for the group. Whatever.

Not every BLU tunnel visions 1000% TP CdC.

I do admit, though, that I wish CdC was a better skillchain WS. The SC options just seem so... limited for it despite how effective it can be on its own. But, be that as it may, I'll use other stuff if it will cause more damage in the long run.

DarkValefor

08-23-2017, 12:20 PM

I don't want to assume every BLU is like that and in fact I know some BLUs that are simply amazing. But when I was in Asura like 90% of the BLUs I saw were doing that. Nos that I'm back to Carbuncle I hardly ever see that kind of BLU.

But yes, CdC skillchain properties make it particullary hard for THF and DNC because of the Distortion attribute. I had to make a decent Evisceration build to deal with that kind of players, that way I could take advantage of DNC's skillchain bonus.

But Evisceration sucks compared to Pyrrhic Kleos or Rudra's Storm in the same way Requiescat does compared to Chant du Cygne. On Apex Bats, which are weak to piercing my Evisceratiom barely does 10k damage, Pyrrhic Kleos aroumd 20k and Rudra's storm around 70k (stacked).

Shiyo

08-23-2017, 01:49 PM

Yeah, 99% of bluemages just spam cdc and think it's good even though they're COMPLETELY destroying the parties actual damage and making mobs die slower. Like I said, removing a DD not scing properly or having awful sc properties and replacing them with a trust or a support(yes, a trust is actually more dps than another dd a vast majority of the time) will increase your party dps and kill speed by a lot.

Mighty guard, while being a strong buff, is not worth caring about. It doesn't have 100% uptime so it's automatically completely useless and you should have a brd or geo so you have capped magic haste at all times and not relying on MG. If you're relying on MG to keep magic haste capped your party comp is awful and you need to head to the mogole to change jobs. MG is nice for damage reduction but not worth bringing a blue mage for when you can just bring carols/barspells/rune fencer(aka actual good jobs) which again, have 100% uptime and you should not be relying on a 50% uptime spell for mitigation either. If you're relying on MG for any type of mitigation or haste, as I said, your party comp needs to be adjusted asap, as one single dispel, one too long of a boss fight, some mistakes, etc, and you're probably done as you just lost a huge chunk of your mitigation and haste.

Sword has awful sc properties, making blue even more subpar as a DD. Even if the blue mage isn't spamming cdc, they'll GREATLY nerf their damage as they get no real good tp bonus to take advantage of savage blade and req is an awful, awful, awful weapon skill for dealing damage and they don't have a fusion WS.

I honestly think RDM might be a better DD and sword user than blue mage in proper party comps, but not sure yet. Especially since RDM can use excalibur and have a fusion weapon skill that does ok damage. That's pretty much how bad blue mage is as a DD job.

Urmom

08-24-2017, 12:23 AM

Well there's also a huge difference between cping and doing pop/instanced fights. And party composition and mob type will make a huge difference. Get other light ws DDs and it's a deal or get so many dds that holding tp for planned skillchains is detrimental. Regardless of the job if you bring a DD and then limit use of their good ws they going to do bad and well blu is definitely a bandwagon job with a lot of meh players

rdms pretty good on paper especially with temper II but still somewhat suffers in the gear department

DarkValefor

08-24-2017, 11:49 AM

Sometimes when you limit a DD's weapon skill your're actually increasing overall party damage, of course there are a lot of different mobs with different mechanics but I think nowadays people ignore the power of skillchains outside of magic burst damage.

Some enemies resist skillchains, some others absorb the damage, some others take increaaed skillchain damage. But I think some people think BLU is the only solution for almost every battle and that allways bothered me.

I remember once I saw a shout for Bakunawa UNM when I played in Asura, I asked if I could join as a DNC and was told they only wanted BLU. I later on decided to try the fight with a friend and the battle was litterally 5 seconds long, Requiescat > Rudra's Storm and it was dead, I know BLUs are capable of many things but I don't understand people's obsession with BLU only everywhere. Same with Sinister Reign, I couldn't join as DNC because they wanted only BLUs, and seriously, SR is not that hard.

But this kind of stuff has only happened to me in Asura since I came back to Carbuncle people seem a lot more permissive with party setups.

Shiyo

08-24-2017, 12:25 PM

Yeah, that's pretty hilarious honestly, considering blue mage is bottom of the barrel DD as far as being an actual damage dealer goes. It's good at being a jack of all trades, but when you want a mob dead? There's far better jobs, MANY of them, actually. The only jobs worse than it at dealing damage are monk and pup. Like I said, I want to test if RDM is actually better because I honestly think it will be now if the RDM has the new omen accs.

It all comes down to people don't know how to build parties, and support players have no idea how to support, press barspells. haste, or boost spells.

Aysha

08-24-2017, 04:17 PM

I think to be honest, a lot of these fights (I'm not talking about CP groups) don't NEED the ridiculous job discrimination you see going on.

You could kill these mobs with a lot of different setups, but it is seemingly forbidden that you take any more than the optimum amount of time and effort to do so. How dare someone invite a BLU when (insert job here) could help kill the thing 30-60 seconds faster... oi.

Is it really necessary?

I liked BLU because of the jack of all trades and it's a good solo job thing. I also remember seeing lots of BLU requested shouts (though there's less of that these days). But after putting the work I did into BLU, it is kinda depressing that people are needlessly discriminating against the job itself. I'm not a player who tunnel visions CdC like I said before, I have Requiescat and I'm more than willing to use it. I might not have Mighty Guard yet (because, yanno, going the entire way through the Abyssea junk takes a lot of freaking time if you're starting out from scratch, especially if you're having trouble remembering what pops what and where and have to constantly alt-tab to a wiki), but I do have other support spells that I am more than willing to use.

The problem I find myself in, though, is that I don't really know anybody and I'm lacking a lot of these pieces of gear. I have all jobs on 99 and I'd be willing to use any of them, but most of them are lacking gear 'cept for Ambuscade Armor (I think I have enough Ambuscade armor on my main that nearly any job could equip it, though it might not be ideal). Weapons are ridiculous to get ahold of (at least ones that are worth your time), and accessories pre-Escha seem like most of them suck or are ridiculous to get ahold of (like that Double/Triple Attack ring from Abyssea... Rare Drop (that probably requires a proc), and you need to farm no less than 3-4 NMs to get ONE chance for it? Oi....).

So it's hard enough even trying to get to where you can even think about doing endgame.... don't need job discrimination on top of it, especially not when said job discrimination isn't even necessary. I doubt a lot of those Unity and Escha mobs really require certain jobs. Maybe the latest Omen content, I could see... but c'mon, Escha that's been out for a couple years now?

Shiyo

08-24-2017, 06:07 PM

Blue mage is literally 30-50% behind a real DD in proper party comps, as well as having AWFUL sc properties, which makes your party damage plummet even further. That's kinda a big deal, also I laugh every time I see blue called a "heavy dd" on other forums.

Urmom

08-25-2017, 02:03 AM

Hawklaser

08-25-2017, 03:35 AM

The biggest reasons I can see for as to why blu is wanted over a number of other DD options is that they are low maintenance for the party, and they have a lower skill floor to be okay.

Blu has a lot of tools it can use so the support/healers don't have to worry about them as much, as well as help cover some other things for the party. If having to cast Haste individually, blu should be self hasting saving one target. Blus have a number of quick stuns to help prevent nasty tp moves or aoe spells. And for those that do get through, they often keep themselves up allowing better focus on the tank/other DDs. With winds of promy, they deal with most of the annoying non-na statuses. So overall it helps free up the demands on supports and healers. Hence the low maintenance.

As to the low skill floor, it really does not take much to get blu to a useful state. Set a handful of key spells for traits, and self buffs, buy items to unlock Cdc, and then add in decent gear. Not much is needed beyond that, and the spell farming weeds out some of the really terrible ones. Some of the other DDs take a bit more investment of time and gear to do alright. Pretty sure blu can compete with any DD, problem is takes a lot more work and investment to reach those points and be noticed. In a way its like comparing pld and ninja back in the day. Pld didn't take a lot of work to be an effective tank, while ninja took a nice bit more so it was much easier to differentiate between good/bad ninjas than it was plds.

On Cdc, its actually in a nice skillchain position, the problem is that its the same spot as many of the other prefered ones on the darkness side, which is the same issue with savage blade for light. Blu actually has plenty of SC options, thanks to their physical spells, though not sure how many are still useful for that as haven't messed around with chain affinity recently. So really if a blu can't alter what they use for skillchains they are just being lazy. (Also of note, they should know spirits within and sanguine blade don't have sc properties when not able to add to normal chain of party)

Honestly, much of this stuff has likely been brought about because the ws spam era towards end of aht urgahn and abysea, and the much easier ability to cap out attack delay and other key stats. As just the other night in a cp party, using a simple three step double light sc with 3 people using ws's it wasn't uncommon for me to have 2500+tp. And I'm only just on the edge of being able to self sc off my own weaponskills reliably, so while Cdc is nice its almost better for me to gear for savage blade or expacion first for party situations. Im willing to use whichever ws is best for the party, least sword has options unlike when leveled drg back in the day and used double thrust for close to 65 levels to open distortion.

Shiyo

08-25-2017, 06:34 AM

I haven't looked at all the spreadsheets and simulations recently but I find it hard to believe they are that far behind unless real DD only refers to like 2-3 jobs. Maybe if you count skillchain dmg but a lot of that is how you set things up. Hell last I was reading post update even mnk is that far behind and I mean lolmnk. Unless you are going by straight parses or something which well most blus are mediocre at best and as you already admit mostly just spam cdc like dummies.

Then again you can't really use a modifier of proper party composition and complain about skill properties since in a party where skillchaining is useful a proper party composition would use dds with good ws with complimentary skillchain properties. That said they have strong ws for 3/4 level 2 elements and both level 3 so idk about not having good properties unless again lolcdcspammage

Spreadsheets are very inaccurate and bad. Everytime I've tested something in game it's proven to me spreadsheets are wrong because the data put into them for stats/gear/etc are not accurate(even for up to date spreadsheets!) and thus the results become wrong. Real game testing is the only 100% accurate testing. The corsair guides BIS gear lists are a great example of the spreadsheets being wrong, as there's so much incorrect information there it's not even funny.

The below assumes a proper party comp with 2-4 supports and people keeping their buffs up and actually -naing dd's and hasting curing erasing etc.

Jobs that do more dps than blu:
DRG WAR SAM DRK THF DNC COR(Needs to not be a roll only cor and have damage sets)

Jobs that do around blue dps:
NIN

Job's that probably do more dps than blue with omen accs:
RDM

Job's that blu does more dps than:
MNK PUP

Bluemage is good when you have braindead support or a bad party comp, but you don't want to be in comps like that anyways so it's irrelevant. Bluemage is a bad DD, and needs to stop being called a "heavy dd" - it's a jack of all trades that does nice things like aoe erase, aoe sleep, light dispel, defense down, aoe curing, etc.

What makes bluemage SC properties so bad? It's the fact it wants to press Expiacion and CDC to keep up aftermaths but there's MUCH better distortion users(thf, dancer mainly), it has ZERO fusion weapon skills and competes with resolution for frag while the only good non-mythic fusion weapon skill is upheavel and shun, and ninja is not a good DD either. It's gravitation weapon skill is REQ, which is a god awful weapon skill for trying to deal damage, couple this with the fact that corsair is a better savage blade user and you really don't want a bluemage for skillchaining because it's REALLY bad at scing with other optimal jobs. The only way it can get a decent gravitation WS is by using a Hepatizion sapara but that's going to nerf it's damage even more as corsair can use that with ZERO penalty to it's damage while a bluemage loses out on it's almace or tizona to use it.

Urmom

08-25-2017, 07:14 AM

While there are problems with spreedsheets a lot of the ones listed can be solved by well actually inputting data correctly. In fact that's less a problem with them and more of an user error problem really. And from what I've been reading on forums people are moving more towards simulations that allow well for it to follow more like how a fight would actually happen like not using averages and being able to plan for multistep skillchains or purposefully holding tp.

Unless you have a bunch of people with verifable best gear for everything AND have them all playing them optimally parse data is even more useless. I mean every problem with the spreedsheets can in some fashion translate over to the game. But instead of putting wrong gear in it's just using the wrong gear or playing wrong. Not to dig on you but you've kind of shown not to know what they have access to. Sure bandwagons are even worse.

So while I'm sure the blus you've seen have done less dmg then those other jobs you've seen that doesn't necessarily disprove anything. I mean I've literally had several HTBF runs where my pld not only did the most dmg but did more than the rest of the pt combine... and also managed to heal more than the rdm that was attempting to dd lol. Way back in the day I'd win VW parses all the time on rng where 99% of my dmg was wildfire. Like I barely even shot and that was over the course of months with several different groups and people. Obviously rng wasn't that OP and I started losing when a friend with 99 Ukon started coming. This is why every other forum is going to laugh when you say it's not a good dd unless you are comparing people who are known for being the best on the job. Because math is accurate as long as you put things in right and it's easy to check while real game "testing" it's incredibly hard to verify things are being compared fairly especially when you seem to already being decided what can be used with it.

Shiyo

08-25-2017, 07:19 AM

Simulations use spreadsheet data and the spreadsheet data isn't accurate, so the simulations are inaccurate as well.

I have not yet partied with a bluemage that can outdps my corsair in proper party buffed situations, and I've been with Tizona and almace blus. I've played with RMEA DD's and their damage is 30-50% higher than any blue mage I've played with. You can "laugh" all you want, but my real in game data shows that bluemage benefits the least from buffs and doesn't deal anywhere near the damage of RMEA dd's.

The extreme inconveniences of bluemages sc properties completely neuter party damage and SC set ups heavily, making bluemage my most shunned DD preference by far.

You also have to consider nearly no high end top player is using bluemages as their DD jobs anymore, they all bring WAR/SAM/DRK/DRG to HELMS and omen now, there is probably a reason for that(might be that the general player base/forums are always 6 months-2 years behind).

Urmom

08-25-2017, 07:21 AM

Simulations use spreadsheet data and the spreadsheet data isn't accurate, so the simulations are inaccurate as well.
Yeah no that's now how this works that's not how any of this works. I get it you don't know how math works.

But to spell it out for you. Each sheet is maintained on it's own. Most of those "inaccurate" ones you find are all based on things people haven't maintained from OPs that made forever and a day ago often by people that don't play anymore. People update them further along in pages. Simulations are a whole other beast where everything is inputted in and ran thru differently. They are much more updated as they are recent and usually from users a lot more currently active. Unless you can point out specific flaws in them...

Shiyo

08-25-2017, 07:22 AM

Yeah no that's now how this works that's not how any of this works. I get it you don't know how math works

Uh, the data put into them is wrong and no one has bothered to test it properly, there's so much inaccurate data in spreadsheets it's laughable. They think x item is better than y but then if you go test it in game it's actually completely wrong. Spreadsheets shouldn't be wrong,but people don't know the actual numbers that are used in game for EVERY calculation so the spreadsheet ends up being wrong. Math can't be wrong, but the equations can be, and when people don't know the exact numbers that the game uses for 100% of things, you get spreadsheets being wrong.

Here's a good example: Pixie hairpin +1 is said to be "BIS" for leaden salute by a lot. Go test pixie hairpin +1 with leaden salute vs herc helm with at least 25 MAB. Have fun.

edit: you just admitted spreadsheets aren't maintaned and up to date. Well, ok, then don't quote them like a bible.

In game experiences show bluemage is a subpar DD, top players don't use bluemages as dd's anymore. There's probably a reason for both these things.

Let me know when bluemage can do this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n68mlSFJMwE

Bluemage is a solo job and jack of all trades, not a damage dealer.

Urmom

08-25-2017, 07:31 AM

Lol wut. No wonder why people think you are crazy on other forums. Outside of a few weird niche things (like staff ws since the big ws update) and mob stats (though they get somewhat tested) pretty much all player damage related has been thoroughly tested and retested. You think you know better? Then go out with controlled tests and math to back it up. Seriously prove it. Not put parses up not lol look what a specific person can do. Proof the actual math wrong with your own

As far as your example it depends on many factors. No piece of gear can be taken out of context especially in the age of stat vomit.

I said not ALL of the spreadsheets are maintained and up to date. Stop looking at OPs like they are the bible and use most recently updated ones.

Shiyo

08-25-2017, 07:37 AM

Contesting accepted knowledge that most everyone uses doesn't make someone crazy. Did you test pixie vs herc helm for leaden yet?

Anyways, any mods here? Being personally attacked and insulted, would appreciate some moderation <3

Urmom

08-25-2017, 07:47 AM

Awww look get asked to prove supposed inaccuracies with other peoples testing and you want to call a mod.

Go ahead and feel attacked all you want but you aren't being. Your ideas are. You claim there is no proper testing... when you can go thru and see mountains of testing and retesting and debate. You say equations are wrong despite lots of people beating those horses to death figuring it out. But hey people miss things and sometimes other people miss the same things and stuff changes (and I don't think anyone has reverified the numbers SE gave us for club or staff ws)so maybe there are some inaccuracies. But you (or someone else) will actually have to go out and test and back up with full math that other people can also check for inaccuracies the same way the original data was in order to prove it wrong. Just stating it over and over again when people have poured immense amounts of time into testing this stuff is laughable. That's like me saying pup is top DD because I state it does more dmg and well actually does more often then it really should

DarkValefor

08-25-2017, 08:22 AM

I haven't looked at any spreadsheets and I don't really know how top players perform, but I have to say that I've barely seen 2 or 3 BLUs actually deal real damage, the rest were lower than any other DD who actually worked on their gear, obviously sparks DD doesn't work. You never see a BLU for example WSing for 70k damage, or making huge Skillchains, yea they spam that CdC button, but that CdC is not so big damage. Obviously a BLU with Almace can do great amounts of damage, but in the same way another DD with empy weapons or mythic weapons can do good amounts of damage.

But IMO BLUs are usually chosen not because of their damage, which is commonly low, but because of their survivality. My Dancer for example is usually dead after the first or second WS in high level content like Omen because tanks have no way to get hate back.

Shiyo

08-25-2017, 08:41 AM

That's why thief is the best DD because trick attack exists!
just like how ninja is the best DD in ff14
(not really, just enmity being an issue can screw things over sometimes)

Aysha

08-25-2017, 09:24 AM

just like how ninja is the best DD in ff14

lol.

When's the last time you actually played 14? Because last I checked, NIN was just a small slice under RDM and about equal to SAM. Depending on fight, of course.

But what is with your obsession with "BEST DPS EVAR!!!" when the delta between them is what, 10% at best?

Shiyo

08-25-2017, 09:59 AM

Current content patch, it's mandatory and you don't raid without a NIN because smoke screen + trick attack + shadewalker. Makes your tanks not have to press enmity combo and ups your raid DPS a lot.

DarkValefor

08-25-2017, 10:52 AM

That's why thief is the best DD because trick attack exists!
just like how ninja is the best DD in ff14
(not really, just enmity being an issue can screw things over sometimes)

Not allways they can stand in front of the mob for as long as the Rudra's Storm or Mandalic Stab animation locks them for.

Aysha

08-25-2017, 06:27 PM

Current content patch, it's mandatory and you don't raid without a NIN because smoke screen + trick attack + shadewalker. Makes your tanks not have to press enmity combo and ups your raid DPS a lot.

That's only a band-aid to the player impatience problem because they are trying to clear said raids with lower than designed equipment levels. The raids are designed to be done with full i330 which is not available yet due to the 450/wk cap on Creation Tomestones.

They do this for tryhards that want world firsts. *shrugs* I don't really care about that, as that's such a niche area of the game. Everywhere else where that is not needed, RDM puts out more damage.

Kishr

08-25-2017, 08:52 PM

How this thread get so derailed
Anyway Omen cards again next month

Urmom

08-26-2017, 10:11 AM

Do you need a #SafeSpace ? And before you go begging for more mods to put me in "timeout", I didn't attack you, I asked a question.

5/7 would chuckle again. Also safespace is the block button

How this thread get so derailed
Anyway Omen cards again next monthNot just that but 2 separate omen campaigns though hard to say 100% what the 2nd one means. Wonder how it will pan out. The first one encourages people to just do farm routes all month but if the 2nd one is related to chest floors might make people want to do boss routes for that lol

Shiyo

08-26-2017, 10:29 AM

Would really like for a forum moderator to exist and clean up this thread. It's not ok to be personally attacked and insulted on a forum.

Aysha

08-26-2017, 12:48 PM

Would really like for a forum moderator to exist and clean up this thread. It's not ok to be personally attacked and insulted on a forum.

So.... you take a hostile, aggressive tone towards someone for daring to play a "bad" job such as BLU and do your best to talk down to them to try to tell them that their choice sucks because it ain't the best of the best, you shovel elitism and job discrimination in a very not-nice manner, and then you come running to the moderators to "clean up" the thread that you, yourself derailed?

Nice.

Not only that, but in the other forum (Items and Crafting) you basically tell a 12+ year old veteran that he doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to fishing Moat Carp, something myself and a family member has done for not one, not two, but THREE Lu Shang's Fishing Rods and then proceed to blame my problem on something entirely unrelated (no, sugar, Knightwell is NOT the only place you can/should fish Moat Carp, and you're going to get about the same bite rate no matter where you go; it depends on how many other catches are possible and Knightwell is only marginally better than in-town fishing, and I'd even wager it isn't even that because you are adding Monsters to the list of possible fish).

Either way, you took a hostile belligerent tone with me in that thread too, talking down to me like I didn't know anything.

Kishr

08-26-2017, 01:15 PM

hard to say 100% what the 2nd one means.

Chest for free canteen lol,
No idea what lights are, but by the Pic I guess it's the chest floor related.

@snowflake
If your offended that easily there's something wrong with you.

Urmom

08-26-2017, 04:35 PM

Chest for free canteen lol,
No idea what lights are, but by the Pic I guess it's the chest floor related.

Pic would lead you to believe that so something like maybe increased chance to get chest floor maybe... but wouldn't be the first time SE's had red herrings in the pictures that go with little things like that lol. But maybe lights mean the spectral light you get when completing objective so can get even more cards!!! Not sure really, will be fun to find out. Mad dash to figure out whether should still just do card farms or boss runs

Nyarlko

08-26-2017, 04:53 PM

Pic would lead you to believe that so something like maybe increased chance to get chest floor maybe... but wouldn't be the first time SE's had red herrings in the pictures that go with little things like that lol. But maybe lights mean the spectral light you get when completing objective so can get even more cards!!! Not sure really, will be fun to find out. Mad dash to figure out whether should still just do card farms or boss runs

It does say:
* If the first light is a good one, the second will not appear.

That makes me think that a 2nd warp light thingy will show up if the 1st one is not a treasure floor. I can not come up w/ a single alternative that makes sense with the quoted line. :/ Also, the warps are referenced in-game as "larger light" and "smaller light" IIRC.

Kishr

08-26-2017, 09:54 PM

Small light just for the mid boss skip.

Urmom

08-27-2017, 08:39 AM

It does say:

That makes me think that a 2nd warp light thingy will show up if the 1st one is not a treasure floor. I can not come up w/ a single alternative that makes sense with the quoted line. :/ Also, the warps are referenced in-game as "larger light" and "smaller light" IIRC.

Problem is the wording is weird for that. That warp light line you get is from completing the primary objective on any floor including chest floors themselves while you only get the warps to the chest floor from bosses. On top of that the known triggers for chest floor are omen number related completely divorced from getting light on those kills. But the rest of the line says about when defeating monsters which pretty much rules out secondary objectives but also puts primary in not the best spot since you can get a free floor though that is rarer so might just be an oversight

As already said the larger and smaller have to do with path the rest of the warps all look the same and there are no choices well outside of Ou runs. Another odd thing this would be the first time the game would give us pre knowledge of a chest floor. Normally it's hit the warp and bam if it sends you somewhere else while giving you a weird message you win

Also to note that light messages both for primary and secondary are part of the acknowledgement for credit towards a card. So the full notes on this if all of it is taking literally and assuming no translation issues gives mixed messages. I fear something may have been lost in translation

Nyarlko

08-27-2017, 08:54 AM

Problem is the wording is weird for that. That warp light line you get is from completing the primary objective on any floor including chest floors themselves while you only get the warps to the chest floor from bosses. On top of that the known triggers for chest floor are omen number related completely divorced from getting light on those kills. But the rest of the line says about when defeating monsters which pretty much rules out secondary objectives but also puts primary in not the best spot since you can get a free floor though that is rarer so might just be an oversight

As already said the larger and smaller have to do with path the rest of the warps all look the same and there are no choices well outside of Ou runs. Another odd thing this would be the first time the game would give us pre knowledge of a chest floor. Normally it's hit the warp and bam if it sends you somewhere else while giving you a weird message you win

Also to note that light messages both for primary and secondary are part of the acknowledgement for credit towards a card. So the full notes on this if all of it is taking literally and assuming no translation issues gives mixed messages. I fear something may have been lost in translation

Omen Light Double-Up Campaign
Omen will experience the following adjustments.
Two Omen lights will be activated when vanquishing monsters.
* If the first light is a good one, the second will not appear.

Weird wording, yes, but it makes even less sense for it to apply towards objectives with the disclaimer included. Since they reference the warp points ingame as "lights", extra shot at a treasure floor seems like the highest probability. If it said "vanquishing notorious monsters" or the like, it would be clear that what I'm thinking is correct. But "good one" could also mean "completes the related objective", in which case I can get what you're saying, but it feels like a bigger stretch to reach that gap in translation.

One big problem with it being objective lights is.. How could it apply to stuff like multistep sc? >_>;;

Urmom

08-27-2017, 03:21 PM

Problem is they reference everything but omens as a light in there. Start a floor get told to follow the light and tells you your objective same with secondary. Complete secondary a faint light twinkles. Complete a primary a spectral light flares up. Touching a warp asks you if you want to go into the light (or little light on floor 2) on every floor even ones that can't get chests. Except the last floor which asks you if you want to escape and you can still get a chest after that so idk

Then there is how the game works in terms of omens are what makes your warp be a good one. No matter how you try to take this it requires stretching something a bit... well except secondary objectives that's a huge stretch.

My take is. If it really is chest then what they really meant to say was omens instead of lights. If they really meant lights you are just getting double credit for primary and forgot you can get free floors as the rest are defeating monsters even if they are specific about them.

If it's the first holy heck translation error but yay I guess we will get greater insight into which omens are what proc chest floor and can start using that info on completing runs. If second yay even more cards I guess

Vold

09-05-2017, 01:18 PM

I wouldn't terribly complain about a perma bonus for CP. Not everyone gets to ride the CP gravy train, and the fact that train exists at all should warrant some kind of base CP increase for everyone else who aren't in linkshells(don't get me wrong, being in an active LS as always is do'in it right)or maybe paying a LS for their CP. What is the xp count to max JP? Like 60+ million? I mean, come on lol. Any adjustment they'd be willing to make to it is meaningless to balance but it'd be a welcomed adjustment by everyone who only ever hears about the mega f-ton of JP gains cookie cutter setups get.

Other than that, eh I don't really care. I guess it'd be a bad thing for the game as it is today. The campaigns are nice and those should stay, I don't know how those are considered a bad thing by anyone.

I don't care for the TH2 suggestion, however. I was heavily against any TH existing outside of THF/ or /THF because it takes away a very important reason to play THF and we know for an absolute fact after tremendous amounts of testing over the years, not only by myself but others willing to keep track in the name of learning how XI functions, that anything beyond TH3 is basically insignificant TH boosts, and TH3 is very slightly better than TH2 which is a fair boost over TH1 as TH1 was a fair boost over TH0. That TH12 or 14whatever the cap is is a very tiny FU consolation prize to THF. I understand the desire for increased drop rates but other jobs just need some investment into farming TH gear and you can basically never play THF again or never have to worry about leveling it.

*shrug* Before no one wanted to carry THF around because their groups took DPS hits in the name of TH so for some reason SE agreed with that mentality and gave other jobs TH instead of boosting THF ._. then they were like, oh crap we killed THF and boosted THF ._. then again, oh crap we boosted too much let's take it away ._. It's always amusing, man. They've been trying to balance the jobs since XI launched. All they can do is give nice boosts to each job here and there as time passes and the cycle repeats from there.

Olor

09-14-2017, 01:14 PM

I'll be honest, been away for months, I'd just like to see more done to let people solo. I love Vanadiel, I love the world building, I love the mechanics of the game, I love the characters etc. And I love seeing other people around, and interacting with them in my own way on my own terms. But I don't have any close friends who play anymore, and pick up groups these days are just not very fun. I just resubbed to tinker a bit but I am unlikely to stick around for more than a month because the game sub is incredibly expensive, and because it's so tedious to make any progress solo.

I'd like to see ways for solo players to make decent CP, and to work on stuff like ambuscade gear solo, without having to use 3rd party tools to optimize and swap gear automatically. Basically, I'd just like them to think of laddering people a bit more like a single player game so that there is a way to do most everything in the game on your own time, in your own way without having to team up.

I do like grouping, but only if people are chill and social about it. Basically, I don't play videogames to be stressed out, so most groups are really not my cup of tea these days. I'm no superstar player, and I never will be, and I don't want to ruin anyone's run by being a dirty casual. I'd rather derp around by myself without pressure. But there isn't really a clear, enjoyable path to improving my character (other than grinding a super weapon, which bores me to tears everytime I try).

I know folks will chime in to say "but, but it is an MMO" and I say... yeah and subs are what keeps this machine rolling. As long as soloing is less efficient than grouping, lots of folks will group. I just want a path forward, not the best path forward. Because I do like the game and I want it to last.

Currently a lot of my best gear is from the gobbie box and... well seriously, that's the worst way to help casual or solo players because outside of a quick login to get your lotto, it doesn't encourage people to actually play the game. I'd rather them scale back all the lotteries and scale up the usefulness of trusts so that people can make progress solo better.