Now I remember why fishing sucks.

[Aysha]

So this whole "Claret Carp" RoE quest inspired us to get some Halycon Rods made (because now that I have a 110 Alchemist, and I can kill endless pots in sky and have been doing so for awhile for crystals, it is so easy to do) and sometimes I get bored in the game and I can't really think of anything to do, so...

Family member and I asked each other 'why not try some fishing?'

Well, it took us about an hour to remember why fishing in this game sucks.

"You didn't catch anything."
"You didn't catch anything."
"You didn't catch anything."
"You didn't catch anything."
"You didn't catch anything."
"You didn't catch anything."

.......sigh.

Okay... RMT is almost dead in this game, because to be honest, nobody cares about gil anymore unless you're talking cursed junk (and it doesn't even seem like that sells anymore) and Su3 equipment along with crafting materials if anybody is doing escutcheons (sp?), though anybody who is doing THAT horrendous grind is probably already done with the latest stage (and that's why material prices are falling through the floor because nobody's buying right now).

So..... why are the absolutely punishing restrictions still in place on fishing? There are no fish that are worth anything to anybody except for maybe Trumpet Shells as that's one of the only reasonable Bonecraft leveling synth for its level, but that requires there to be a bonecrafter on the server trying to level through it.

Fishing is a dead, worthless skill... but it is still far too hard to levelup. You can fish for 2-3 hours and finally get Level 1. And you have to zone every 30 minutes or you start getting that super-annoying "You didn't catch anything." every time you cast your line.

So now you add an RoE Vana'versary objective in that has to do with fishing... I dunno, I assume you wanted players to fish again? But you're not going to convince anybody to fish when leveling up is a ridiculously awful grind that is worse than trying to get Stage 2 Escutcheons done, and when you finally do get some levels on fishing? You aren't any better off than what you were before you tried to start, because there's not really any fish that is actually worth anything today. Not when you can walk over to your friendly Curio Vendor Moogle and buy any kind of Sushi you could ever want. Or Fish Mithkabobs. Or Shihei... is there ANYTHING worth fishing today?

It just seems that the work vs reward with Fishing is all out of whack. It's kinda sad, because the minigame makes it something that you could at least not fall asleep while doing, and it at least tests your reflexes at least a little, unlike anything else in this game... but there's just simply no reason to do it 'cept for the #ANV keys.

Since Fishing is so worthless, why not ease up on the restrictions so that it is at least a little fun?

[Nyarlko]

I ran into the same issue when I tried at first, and learned the hard way that it actually helps to move spots even just a little bit. Take two steps to the side and you'll start getting bites again. That is assuming that you haven't hit your daily cap of course. >_>;; There IS a daily catch cap that resets at JP midnight daily unfortunately. I would personally love it if at the very bare minimum, skillup rates were changed for 1-70 to match normal crafts. I really don't expect them to lower/remove the timer on the catch limit, ever.

As you mentioned, there doesn't appear to be any real money in this, BUT the devs were recently on record on this issue and they are still scared that changing anything w/ fishing will invite RMT activity..... -_-;; There was also talk about how bite rates are based on the premise that the supply is limited by the daily catch limits.

Honestly... The main reason I care at all about fishing is because that is a glaringly ugly white number among all my beautiful blue numbers on my skill sheet. :x It makes my OCD itch.

[VoiceMemo]

Are you fishing in mog garden or at knightswell? And what bait are you using. In my experience the best combo is yew rod + insect paste at knightswell.

[Sirmarki]

The moon phase has a say, as stated by SE, in some cases.

I think there is around a 200 catch cap per day, and a bit more if you have an Ebitsu rod (220-230!?).

I've never had a problem catching Moat Carp. The best place is your Mog Garden, using a little worm. 100% catch rate.

[Nyarlko]

You seem to have forgotten about the time when ppl were fishing up Gold Beds which were NPCable for 1mil each IIRC. (Might've been 100k, don't 100% remember the number of zeroes.) There most definitely have been phases where fishing was Get Rich Quick, but usually off bugs like that one. lol

The joy of fishing is very easily overcome by the despair of skillup when you are just starting out. Player skill in the minigame has very little to do with what you can reel in yet, so it's more frustration and less fun than I imagine the higher levels should be.

[Urmom]

Fishing up rusties way back when also used to be some pretty good fast gil. Could clean the rust off and npc them for a rather decent profit and you could catch them at a good rate if you actually tried to fish items lol

[Dragoy]

Thinking back, I wasn't very interested in fishing for about 5 or more years of playing, though I did do it a bit, and indeed, the rate of skillupses certainly wasn't very encouraging (perhaps one of the main reasons I did /not/ do it). They did adjust the rate of them happening (increased?) with the Jun 25, 2015 (JST) Version Update. Not that /that/ affected me any longer, but it's there. ^^

When I did start doing it seriously (mainly to fish matsya for a friend), the rate of skillupses didn't really bother me any longer, and it might have felt things were moving on at a rather nice pace even. The thing that /did/ hinder my progression, and annoyed me quite a bit, was the daily limit. It still certainly would, should I want to go fishing a lot again (I might go for the Lu Shang's +1 quest at some point (already did the actual quest for 10,000 carp as well as Ebisu and Ebisu +1)).

I'd certainly be in favour of removing said limit. I feel it's one of those things that mainly hurt(s) the legitimate players.

Aside from the daily limit, I don't remember having issues with the 'You didn't catch anything.'.

[Aysha]

@Sirmarki:

Little Worms are nowhere near a 100% catch rate in Mog Garden. You get about 3 carp per 5-7 catches (the rest being crayfish).

Also, I'm hoping I am wrong about this, but current testing seems to point to something really fishy (lol) going on -- all of the characters I had made years ago are having problems with "You didn't catch anything". I'd catch 1-3 fish and then get 4-5 "You didn't catch anything" with a Halcyon Rod + Little Worms in Mog Garden.

BUT.

Family member loaded her character that she created this past November and he catches 20 fish in a row without moving, without zoning, before she got her first "You didn't catch anything" message (with the same Halcyon Rod + Little Worms!) and I seem to remember the character I created this past November having far better catch rates too. More testing is needed, but it almost seems like older characters have bugged data on them or something that causes the ridiculously horrible catch rates.

[Shiyo]

Fishing in this game is amazing. FF14 fishing is so awful, I can't believe a game made 10 years later has such worse everything.

I have zero problems fishing. You're either using the wrong bait or at a bad spot for moat carp. I just fished up some gigant squids a few days ago, and I can catch 200 moat carp in a few hours easily.

Don't complain about something because you're not doing it properly. Get insect balls, go to knight well in ronfaure, and fish moat carps.

[Aysha]

Fishing in this game is amazing. FF14 fishing is so awful, I can't believe a game made 10 years later has such worse everything.

I have zero problems fishing. You're either using the wrong bait or at a bad spot for moat carp. I just fished up some gigant squids a few days ago, and I can catch 200 moat carp in a few hours easily.

Don't complain about something because you're not doing it properly. Get insect balls, go to knight well in ronfaure, and fish moat carps.

Uh, did you miss the part where I tested 5+ characters at the same spot, same bait, and same rod?

4 of them were getting lots of "You didn't catch anything." and 1 of them caught 20 fish in a row with only 1 "you didn't catch anything"?

Same spot (Mog Garden Pond), same bait (Worms) and same pole (Halcyon) on all of these characters.

And yes, I did try insect balls in town which used to be decent. Now, you can catch a few fish and then you gotta zone yet again every 30 minutes or so because of "You didn't catch anything." constantly.

While fishing in FFXIV is more basic where you just press one button to reel it in, at least you don't get "You didn't catch anything" and at least you don't catch lots of stupid junk like rusted crap.

[Shiyo]

You're not fishing in the correct spot, nor are you using the correct bait for moat carps. You are not doing things correctly. It's you, not the game.

Halcycon rod + insect paste, knight well ronfaure.

You also don't catch garbage in FFXI if you know how to fish and don't reel in bad items(pay attention to what it says when a bite catches).

Please stop complaining and ask for advice on what you're doing wrong.

[Aysha]

You're not fishing in the correct spot, nor are you using the correct bait for moat carps. You are not doing things correctly. It's you, not the game.

Halcycon rod + insect paste, knight well ronfaure.

You also don't catch garbage in FFXI if you know how to fish and don't reel in bad items(pay attention to what it says when a bite catches).

Please stop complaining and ask for advice on what you're doing wrong.

Can you actually answer the question I posted, please?

Mog Garden.
Worms.
Halcyon Rod.
5 Characters.

Why is it one character catches 20+ fish back-to-back and the other four characters all get "you didn't catch anything." ?

And why should we be FORCED to fish in areas where every other catch is a stupid monster or rusted piece? And for the record, I fished Trumpet Shells not that long ago (a few months ago) and you know what? 1 in 4 casts were an actual fish. The other 3 were either junk, monsters, or "You didn't catch anything". And I was fishing at the recommended spot (the bridge in La Vaule, at the exact coordinates they said) with the correct bait (I forget which it was) with Lu Shang's (which is more than enough).

So can we please stop with the high-horse attitude? Seriously. One shouldn't be forced to fish at 1 and only 1 location in the whole game to be able to catch fish. That's just so absurdly stupid.

As far as reeling in garbage/monsters..... I don't actually reel them in, I know how to cancel, thanks.

But the fact that so much of that junk even "bites" in the first place wastes ridiculous amounts of time when you have to keep re-casting your line over and over again because you hooked 3, 4, 5+ junk/monsters in a row is quite annoying.

[Shiyo]

Because you're fishing wrong. It's been stated in every post I've made. Fishing wrong results in massively worse RNG on catching things. You use proper rod/bait at a proper location to make your RNG good.

Fishing properly isn't stupid, sorry you think it is.

[Aysha]

Because you're fishing wrong. It's been stated in every post I've made. Fishing wrong results in massively worse RNG on catching things. You use proper rod/bait at a proper location to make your RNG good.

Fishing properly isn't stupid, sorry you think it is.

So again we're down to "You must fish at only one location for each fish, with only one bait/rod combination" and you don't see a problem with this? That Moat Carp, which exist in nearly every freshwater zone in old areas, you are limited to going to 1-and-only-1 location? And uh, last time I fished at Knightwell (which was years ago but still), I didn't see where it was any better than fishing in town, other than the fact you remove the possibility of monster catches. Also tried the river in Jugner, same thing (only more Gold Carp which is even worse), I came to the conclusion that any town zone works better because you remove monster catches from the list.

So... you don't see the problem with wasting several minutes at a time, Escaping out of Junk and Monster hooks? Where you have to hit escape 2, 3, 4, 5+ times in a row because you keep hooking monsters and items? It doesn't matter WHERE you fish, you're going to have this problem.

I don't know why you seem to think Knightwell is somehow magically better than any other zone, lol. I bet you $5 I could go to Knightwell right now, with a stack of bait and it won't really be statistically better. See, I used to fish way back when, Pre-Abyssea. Actually, I leveled my fishing to 60 back during the days of Zilart and Promathia. Family member and I did no less than three Lu Shang quests on various mules. I know where and how to catch Moat Carp, thanks.

It just seems either worse, or maybe the same at best, but still. All the 'you didn't catch anything', the zoning, etc is just a load of BS that really doesn't need to be there when gil is nigh-worthless and there are no RMTs here. Back then, it was needed because fishing bot RMTs were destroying the economy. Nowadays? It's not needed so let's get rid of it and make fishing actually fun again.

And no, hitting Escape to get out of Monster/Item catches 3 out of 5 times is not fun.

[Sirmarki]

@Sirmarki:Little Worms are nowhere near a 100% catch rate in Mog Garden. You get about 3 carp per 5-7 catches (the rest being crayfish).

I have never caught a crayfish, or ever had "You didn't catch anything..." in the Mog Garden pond using little worms.. I get a moat carp every cast.

What level are you? and Which rod are you using (I see Halcyon from above) and what level were the other characters you tested?

[detlef]

If you're fishing with little worms as bait, your results will favor crayfish if you're low level. The higher your fishing level, the more you will hook moat carps instead of crayfish. So I'd ask, what are the fishing levels of the characters in question?

Secondly, if you're solely targeting moat carps, be smart and use the proper bait to isolate them, which is insect paste.

[Aysha]

All characters I mentioned above are 0-5.

As stated above, 4 of them get "You didn't catch anything..." after a couple catches, and consistently get that 20-30% of the time. Then it's the ~70% crayfish to ~30% moat carps. Now, @detlef explains the moat carp issue, but I still don't understand why family member's brand-new mule gets 20+ catches in a row without a single "You didn't catch anything."

I'm going to have to test my brand-new mule to see if the same thing happens. I have a Lv60 Fisher (my main character) which I will also test when I get some time to do so.

Oh, and for the record, I am _not_ targeting Moat Carp specifically; I was just trying to catch fish to get a few levels just for kicks because I was bored one day, so I didn't care WHAT I caught, as long as it was a fish and not "You didn't catch anything" or junk/monsters.

[Sirmarki]

All characters I mentioned above are 0-5.

As stated above, 4 of them get "You didn't catch anything..." after a couple catches, and consistently get that 20-30% of the time. Then it's the ~70% crayfish to ~30% moat carps. Now, @detlef explains the moat carp issue, but I still don't understand why family member's brand-new mule gets 20+ catches in a row without a single "You didn't catch anything."

I'm going to have to test my brand-new mule to see if the same thing happens. I have a Lv60 Fisher (my main character) which I will also test when I get some time to do so.

Oh, and for the record, I am _not_ targeting Moat Carp specifically; I was just trying to catch fish to get a few levels just for kicks because I was bored one day, so I didn't care WHAT I caught, as long as it was a fish and not "You didn't catch anything" or junk/monsters.

Well that might be your problem right there:

"If the character being used has logged on-line for the first time less than 2 weeks ago, or/and the job level is lower than 20, the maximum number of fish and/or items that can be reeled in is lowered to 10 for the passing Earth day, resetting at Japanese midnight as usual"

[Aysha]

Well that might be your problem right there:

"If the character being used has logged on-line for the first time less than 2 weeks ago, or/and the job level is lower than 20, the maximum number of fish and/or items that can be reeled in is lowered to 10 for the passing Earth day, resetting at Japanese midnight as usual"

1). The mules are Lv99 (yes, all of my mules are Lv99, including the one I made in Nov. '16)
2). The mules are logged on daily and have been logged on daily (except for when no login points are available) every day since November 2016.

So no, that doesn't explain it.

[Shiyo]

Have you tried fishing with insect balls in knight well?

[Aysha]

Have you tried fishing with insect balls in knight well?

Not yet, but that's on my to-do list. I've had too much RL work to really sit down and fish, because I also play XIV. I plan on taking my Fishing 60 main, an "old" mule (one I created years ago) and my new mule (the one I created this past November) and fishing ~50 times and see what their bite rates are.

I'll even use a Halcyon on my main even though she has a Lu Shang's.

[Sirmarki]

1). The mules are Lv99 (yes, all of my mules are Lv99, including the one I made in Nov. '16)
2). The mules are logged on daily and have been logged on daily (except for when no login points are available) every day since November 2016.

So no, that doesn't explain it.

In the previous post you said "All characters I mentioned above are 0-5."...

I'm assuming you meant fishing level then, and not character level...

[Urmom]

rng is killer in this game but it evens out in the end. I was had a 2 hour stint of literally no bites and then another hour of only getting monsters and items when I was way under the cap. At end of the day still caught as many as I normally would

[Aysha]

In the previous post you said "All characters I mentioned above are 0-5."...

I'm assuming you meant fishing level then, and not character level...

Yes, I meant fishing level. I didn't mention their job levels, because I did not think it was actually relevant (I had forgotten about the low-level inactive/fresh mule rule).

That, and I said 0-5... I couldn't have meant job levels, because you can't have a Level 0 job.

[Dragoy]

This discussion does make me think of matsya quite a bit, though having experienced that probably makes me a lot more lenient to anything else fish-related in the game... It's something along the lines of “Things could be worse... Things could be matsya.”

For fun(?), here are some stats from how that went for me. There is some data missing, since apparently I didn't write down anything from June 2014, when I got the shaper's shawl for myself. I was mainly doing it for a friend, and kind of accidentally got mine first (I can only remember due to having screenshots of that time, but perhaps I was just too lazy to get to adding some of that data to the crude text-file I scribbled the info into).


Total Line Casts - 3592

Matsya - 166
Snapsya - 275
Jellyfish - 373
Monster - 290
Nothing - 1050
Arrowwood Log - 352
Divided by Zero - 4
Rusty - 1082

Bucket - 264
Leggings - 522
Subligar - 296

Drill Calamary - 1135
Dwarf Pugil - 770

Base fishing skill level 101-108, with the items to boost it further, and Noddy/Puffin rings. Mega Moglification since about half the way in.

The 'Divided by Zero' was a crash due to a bug introduced at around the time of the fishing system renovation.

I also made notes of the weather, the moon phase, as well as the time of day for most of the catches, but I never put time into making anything with them.

Just after reading the new posts here today, I did a quick test with little worms and the Mog Gardens (I believe this is the first time I went to my Mog Garden since the introduction of Monster Rearing, so, possibly exactly three years ago today... yay!?).

I caught 99 moat carps, of which 49 were with my Ebisu Fishing Rod +1, and the rest were with a Yew Fishing Rod. This was with 99 casts of the line, while having a base fishing skill of 110.

The moon was at 50% (Last Quarter Moon) while starting, and 43% (Waning Crescent) quite a while after having finished up. If memory serves me right-like at all, Full Moon and New Moon at least used to be the best times for fishing outside of cities... maybe.

Aysha, did you check what the moon was like during your experiments?

I'm not able to repeat the test with <110 fishing skill too quickly, as I don't have access to the Mog Gardens on my other characters right now, but I did do a quick test over at Northern San d'Oria, which wasn't a good test at all since the character's is below level 20 (I do think I got one or two 'did not catch anything', though I'm not entirely sure about that at this time...).

Excluding one of my characters (which I might use for some further testing at some point, though it already has a fishing skill level of 19), they all have several years behind them.

Oh and regarding job level of 0, it is possible in Dynamis and Salvage for example, though okay, that's just the support job level... but still! :]

[Sirmarki]

That, and I said 0-5... I couldn't have meant job levels, because you can't have a Level 0 job.

Alright, (cough.... Attitude)..

I'm 110 Fishing with all gear (glasses, body, hands, feet, legs, rings) and Ebisu+1 rod.

You are doing something wrong..... It's as simple as that...

[Aysha]

Alright, (cough.... Attitude)..

My apologies, that was supposed to be more of a light humor type thing.

[Dzspdref]

I've had zero problem with this Claret Carp event. Created most all my character toons pre-ToAU. My fishing skill barely reaches 25+, using Halcyon rod and insect paste balls as bait. I go to Port San d'Oria and fish there each time. Yes I do get the occasional Tricolored carp or Gold carp, but within 20 castings I am done with the Moat carps. And can only remember once or twice did I see "You didn't catch anything." I've even gotten a few skill-ups from this weekly event. Think I'm at 26+ now. And worked on it any time of day, and moon phases on multiple toons, and never had problems as you've described. Not sure what else can say to help. Hope your problems get resolved.

[Aysha]

For those of you who like to say that the pond in the Mog Garden is awesome for fishing...

THIS just happened to me today.

http://i.imgur.com/iT2y1xx.png

You can clearly see I'm in my garden. I'm using a Halcyon and Insect Paste Balls, and I wasn't in the garden for any more than 5 minutes.

EDIT: 24 "You didn't catch anything." to get 10 fish, so that means.... 30% bite rate.

Now I know this is egregious, as this is the first time it has ever been THIS bad, but still. This should not be happening. At All. It's freaking moat carp, and the object of a weekly quest at that. Ain't like it's one of the Ebisu fish or something that's actually worth something.

EDIT2: Next mule, catches 8 fish almost in a row (1-2 "Didn't catch anything." in the middle, not in a row). UNTIL 8/10 and then it took him 16 attempts to catch two fish.

*sigh*

I really don't understand why they needed such ridiculous amounts of "You didn't catch anything."

Kinda reminds me of the uselessness that is HELM where you do nothing but break tools all day to get that 1/100 chance that you might get something remotely useful.

[Sirmarki]

For those of you who like to say that the pond in the Mog Garden is awesome for fishing...

THIS just happened to me today.

http://i.imgur.com/iT2y1xx.png

You can clearly see I'm in my garden. I'm using a Halcyon and Insect Paste Balls, and I wasn't in the garden for any more than 5 minutes.

EDIT: 24 "You didn't catch anything." to get 10 fish, so that means.... 30% bite rate.

Now I know this is egregious, as this is the first time it has ever been THIS bad, but still. This should not be happening. At All. It's freaking moat carp, and the object of a weekly quest at that. Ain't like it's one of the Ebisu fish or something that's actually worth something.

EDIT2: Next mule, catches 8 fish almost in a row (1-2 "Didn't catch anything." in the middle, not in a row). UNTIL 8/10 and then it took him 16 attempts to catch two fish.

*sigh*

I really don't understand why they needed such ridiculous amounts of "You didn't catch anything."

Kinda reminds me of the uselessness that is HELM where you do nothing but break tools all day to get that 1/100 chance that you might get something remotely useful.

I can only think that its your level. Moat carp cap at level 11.

The other thing is, why did you scrub your name out in the corner, but leave it all in the log?

[Aysha]

I can only think that its your level. Moat carp cap at level 11.

The other thing is, why did you scrub your name out in the corner, but leave it all in the log?

I was frustrated and in a hurry and forgot that the name appears in other places. Not really a big deal either way. *shrugs*

[Urmom]

Don't know about garden but I've done upwards of 40k at knightwell and I think the longest it took me to ever cap for the day was 3 hours. Worse bite rate I recorded was like 70-80% with sometimes being literally 100% bite rate until I hit the daily cap. Moonphase is your friend somewhat but with small sample sizes rng can still mess you up