So are they banning people on the brew holds?

[sc4500]

Had 2 people i know got banned for 6 months, only thing they can think they got banned one dude never did damn thing , othere dude did brew holds?

If banned offence then fixed it or tell people not to do brew holds.

Brew holds are use brew and uses treasure chest , conflux , mart any thing get npc talk to. and accident for some people.

[Tamoa]

Just because someone says they got banned without breaking the ToS, it doesn't make it true.

[Greatguardian]

As is the case with, oh... 99% of threads like this, your friends are lying. They did something wrong, and got banned for it. Pausing timers on NPCs is nothing new, and definitely nothing I've ever heard of being banned over.

[Chronofantasy]

I don't think holding a brew is ban-worthy. If you'd really like to make sure or double check though with that you can call a GM and ask them and they can verify it for you. Maybe your friends could be banned for something as simple as using the third party windower program to play FFXI. They might not think it's against ToS but I'm pretty sure it is since it has plug-ins for other third party tools.

[Gokku]

they still ban people?! i know when you do a GM call for botting all you get is a nice little"we dont care" msg from the GM's

[sc4500]

No there on xbox live, didnt get banned on xbox live , only thing they did was hold nm on brews, if others need items they allow them go forward, there on game for 4 yrs, had no problems before that.

[rog]

They definitely have not, and never will ban anyone for this.

[Tamoa]

they still ban people?! i know when you do a GM call for botting all you get is a nice little"we dont care" msg from the GM's

So should SE just take your word for it when you make a GM call to say "that guy there is botting this NM, please ban him", and ban them?

Oh and Xbox players can still break the ToS btw.

[rog]

So should SE just take your word for it when you make a GM call to say "that guy there is botting this NM, please ban him", and ban them?Sure, sounds good.

[Tamoa]

Sure, sounds good.

Lol yeah I can see it now, every butthurt person that lost claim on any NM would be having a field day.

[Chronofantasy]

they still ban people?! i know when you do a GM call for botting all you get is a nice little"we dont care" msg from the GM's

Don't translate their: "Thank you for your call and we will investigate into this further." as their: "We don't care" message to you. If they say they'll investigate it that means they're actually investigating into whether that character is following the ToS are whether or not they can detect anything wrong from that player. They will often do mass bannings and sometimes players that are detected as botters or RMT will be a part of that mass banning.

[Gokku]

when your in south gusta behind a rock for 13 hours casting summons your botting, shit my friend sat in lower jueno for 3 days after abyssea exping his brd to 90 with a skill up bot running in plain sight. ive seen dead people sliding around on the ground in abyssea ive seen people in attowa tele hacking to finish seal quests. not one person i know of has been banned recently for botting in any way.

Edit: to clarify no i dont get that "we will look into it" you get a go to 6 different web pages and submit the complaint to another department when your logged out of ffxi msg.

[sc4500]

Yes xbox players can get banned, normal is modded xbox. and handfull get banned like trying say , nothing they did but what game allowed, and there not be rude to other players. if in the game should be ok , if not should be fixed the problem.

[rog]

About the only way to get banned for botting/cheating is to /sh it jeuno. Which can get you banned even if you did not actually do what you said you did.

Or uh...so i've heard...

[Tamoa]

when your in south gusta behind a rock for 13 hours casting summons your botting, shit my friend sat in lower jueno for 3 days after abyssea exping his brd to 90 with a skill up bot running in plain sight. ive seen dead people sliding around on the ground in abyssea

That may very well be true, but can you prove it? That's the point I'm trying to make. And the reason for the generic GM message may be because even if GMs do respond to you in person, so to speak - what exactly can they do? Also, I'm fairly certain they get a loooooooot of these calls - "omg that person outclaimed me 3 times in a row, they are botting!!!". If someone cares enough to make a GM call, they ought to care enough to submit a report to the STF. Either way, SE would have to investigate, and in most cases they won't be any the wiser.

As for the dead people sliding on the ground, I see that quite often in laggy places.

Also, Xbox players can get banned for RMT related activities.

[Byrth]

Yeah, I'd superficially suspect RMT. I haven't heard of anyone getting banned for brew holding any more than they've been banned for pausing their buffs on FoV books for the last two years.

[rog]

Yeah, I'd superficially suspect RMT. I haven't heard of anyone getting banned for brew holding any more than they've been banned for pausing their buffs on FoV books for the last eight years.
fixed that for you.

[Dazusu]

Had 2 people i know got banned for 6 months, only thing they can think they got banned one dude never did damn thing , othere dude did brew holds?

If banned offence then fixed it or tell people not to do brew holds.

Brew holds are use brew and uses treasure chest , conflux , mart any thing get npc talk to. and accident for some people.

You don't get banned for 6 months. That's a complete fabrication. It's either 24, 36, 72 hours, a week or permanent.

[Alukat]

You don't get banned for 6 months. That's a complete fabrication. It's either 24, 36, 72 hours, a week or permanent.

are u sure?
well a ban list would be dead ass long if they keep, might be that they say its permanent and u believe it because u can't use it after 4 or 5 months.And after 6months they maybe clean the list to reduce the calculation the server has to do (file size would increase and increase and increase if they don't do it).
i know its speculative but it could be.

happened to me at diablo II the only time i was cheating , its like 6 years ago, and i got banned for maphack.
so i am branded and i've never used cheat/3rd party tools again.
however it showed me perm bann and after approx 6 months i was able to use the key again.

[rog]

Permanent bans are permanent. There are no 6 month bans.

[Vold]

Most likely they were wrongfully tagged as rmt ot something to do with credit card billing, if they didn't break ToS.



They definitely have not, and never will ban anyone for this.You don't know this to be true and never will know.


For all intent and purposes it is exploiting the system to make your brew last longer and most certainly is grounds for banning. Whether SE turns the cheek is up to them. Doesn't matter if buffs have been timed out since the start because of how the system works. It hasn't mattered until now with brews.

[rog]

You don't know this to be true and never will know.
Yes i do.

1234567890

[Afrohatch]

hi

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/2817-Brew-Lock

now stfu

[Byrth]

There haven't been FoV books for the last 8 years, but thanks for trying to help.

I've heard of one case where someone's fishbot ban was lifted a year after it was put into place, but they were told it was permanent and the lifting was probably a mistake.

[Tamoa]

are u sure?
well a ban list would be dead ass long if they keep, might be that they say its permanent and u believe it because u can't use it after 4 or 5 months.And after 6months they maybe clean the list to reduce the calculation the server has to do (file size would increase and increase and increase if they don't do it).
i know its speculative but it could be.

happened to me at diablo II the only time i was cheating , its like 6 years ago, and i got banned for maphack.
so i am branded and i've never used cheat/3rd party tools again.
however it showed me perm bann and after approx 6 months i was able to use the key again.

This is FFXI, not Diablo II lol.

[rog]

There haven't been FoV books for the last 8 years, but thanks for trying to help.
Nah, but there are other npcs.

[Zaknafein]

I see people flee hacking, and POS hacking till the cows come home. If that is par for the course I doubt anyone is getting banned for martello brews.

[Cetra]

Brew Lock Thread (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/2817-Brew-Lock?highlight=brew)



Hello,

Thank you for your post regarding this, Nvr. We are aware of this function and would like to clarify any concerns that you guys may have about this.

Locking the Primeval Brew countdown timer by examining chests (for example) is currently [03/18/2011] a known mechanic and by design.

However, this does not mean that adjustments will not be made in the future. We will be sure to keep the community updated at www.playonline.com / information section if any changes are made to this system.

If you have any additional inquiries, constructive suggestions or feedback about this mechanic, we suggest bringing it to the "General Discussion" section.
As always, we will be monitoring these threads, reviewing feedback for improvements, and providing clarification when necessary.

Thank you,
-SQUARE ENIX Moderator

[Mirage]

are u sure?
well a ban list would be dead ass long if they keep, might be that they say its permanent and u believe it because u can't use it after 4 or 5 months.And after 6months they maybe clean the list to reduce the calculation the server has to do (file size would increase and increase and increase if they don't do it).
i know its speculative but it could be.
How much storage space do you think a ban list takes? How much storage space do you think SE has got available to them?

They could make specific bans for the entire player base and it wouldn't take even 0.01% of the storage space the rest of their game servers need.

[Alhanelem]

They are not banning anyone on this. SE have said it is not a violation, as it is an intended mechanic that when you are talking to an "NPC", all buff (AND DEBUFF) timers pause.

It's basically in the same area as summoner burns. Some people may not like it, but it's not a rule violation.

[Kaych]

When Ducal Guard Atma made the avatar's physically immune, a GM told me that it was working "correctly" and that I could used my Solo Astral Burn method in partys. 3 Days later, they fixed it.

This is the same situation^^ I think what happend is that SE "messed up" and they just cant say that they did. I promise you, this will be corrected in the near future^_-

[Babygyrl]

i don't know if you guys remember but probably a year or so ago when SE re did the ToS they clearly stated in the ToS that they can Ban any player for any reason, because even though WE pay that monthly fee SE owns the right to ffxi and OUR individual characters.. so they can essentially do what they want, but if they ban they just cant take your money along with it. (ie perma bans or more then one month bans)

So frankly they could have banned your 2 friends for anything they could have done slightly wrong, holding a brew is possible but doubtful since its not an unknown exploit of the game, holding timers for things such as flee, food even weakness when in cs's or talking to npcs has always been "by design" your friends probably pissed someone off, someone called a GM on them and so on.

[Alhanelem]

GM told me that it was working "correctly" GMs can only tell you what is reported to them by SE. If SE isn't aware of any problem, the GM is just going to say it's working. That doesn't mean it is. It''s not the same situation- the development team is aware of the situation and at the present time they don't consider it a violation. Not all bugs are necessairly considered damaging by them either, and may or may not result in sanctions of they don't feel it's worthy of it. Until it's decided otherwise, there's nothing wrong with it.

Remember this mechanic has been around since the dawn of FFXI. All debuff timers (both positive and negative) are halted while in dialogue so that they're only counting down when you have control of your character.

The people doing this are simply ensuring that thet get their full 3 minutes worth, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

[Zumi]

If SE didn't like you pausing time with NPCs/VC/ect to get more out of your brew they would of fixed it. Obviously they didn't like boost stacking to down kirin fast and that was fixed pretty fast. This has been left in the game forever.

[Sp00fer]

That may very well be true, but can you prove it? That's the point I'm trying to make. And the reason for the generic GM message may be because even if GMs do respond to you in person, so to speak - what exactly can they do? Also, I'm fairly certain they get a loooooooot of these calls - "omg that person outclaimed me 3 times in a row, they are botting!!!". If someone cares enough to make a GM call, they ought to care enough to submit a report to the STF. Either way, SE would have to investigate, and in most cases they won't be any the wiser.

As for the dead people sliding on the ground, I see that quite often in laggy places.

Also, Xbox players can get banned for RMT related activities.

I played for 4 years. In that time, I've seen specific RMT miners mining 24-7 for a year and a half with no repercussions. I've seen players employ fishbot armies, again fishing 24-7, for over a year as well, funding their Relics, Mythics, K Clubs, and decking every armor slot out in 10 mil each items. That's just the stuff one person has obtained from their fishbots. I've seen and kept track of armies of AH bots buying/selling/manipulating the AH in groups every minute of every day. I literally saw some guy over the span of 6 months (24-7) employing 3 or 4 different bots to auto-experience every single job on his character to 75 (and he probably did something similar in Abyssea to get them to 90). Every. Single. Job. He alternated two de-level bots to keep the sync low enough for his main to sync to in Konschtat and auto-killed under the safety of his PL bot. I saw him stuck on the crag staircase on more than one occasion, all his characters continuously running into it.

SE has allowed all of this for years. You think GM calls do anything? They don't even respond to this stuff anymore, they merely direct to the STF. In the years that I've experimented with STF reports, not a single one has ever seen results. And I'm talking about the most blatant of the blatant here. I even had about 10 other people in my LS submit similar STF reports for the same offenders once or twice; still nothing. The STF has never been more than a sham and was used purely for PR purposes back in the day.

I won't deny that a small number of players get banned in XI, but you can get away with just about anything these days and the chances of you being one of that small number is very unlikely (you have a higher chance of being banned for something SE retroactively decides they don't like even though they knew about it all along, like that Salvage duping fiasco). FFXI is now and always has been a botter's game. Fact of life.

[Henihhi]

Someone made a thread on here a few weeks ago about "brew holding" and the SE rep responded that it was a mechanic "working correctly" I have never heard of a 6 month ban either. If this happened recently, your friends should call in and see what exactly happened. A lot of people have been getting ban messages for billing issues etc.

[Starcade]

I won't deny that a small number of players get banned in XI, but you can get away with just about anything these days and the chances of you being one of that small number is very unlikely (you have a higher chance of being banned for something SE retroactively decides they don't like even though they knew about it all along, like that Salvage duping fiasco). FFXI is now and always has been a botter's game. Fact of life.

That's fraud. If Square-Enix knows this kind of stuff goes on against their rules and deliberately goes the other way, it is committing fraud.

[Greatguardian]

That's fraud. If Square-Enix knows this kind of stuff goes on against their rules and deliberately goes the other way, it is committing fraud.

Then sue them or shut up.

[Starcade]

Then sue them or shut up.

As I've said for about two years -- it's a question of standing.

I've certainly considered looking in to various avenues to legally challenge Square-Enix' deliberate abrogation of their own rules vis-a-vis Windower and a ton of other stuff.

[Ravenmore]

The 6 month ban is fishy. All I have ever seen is 24 hour 72 hour and perma. To get perma you really got to try now a days. Shouting I use windower in port or saying you going to grief a player over and over while doing it using the wall of justice.

[Pharaun]

As I've said for about two years -- it's a question of standing.

I've certainly considered looking in to various avenues to legally challenge Square-Enix' deliberate abrogation of their own rules vis-a-vis Windower and a ton of other stuff.

You're just a pretentious poser, as GreatGuardian said, do it or shut up. You don't really want to do anything, you just like sitting in front of your computer playing the self righteous martyr.

[rog]

That's fraud. If Square-Enix knows this kind of stuff goes on against their rules and deliberately goes the other way, it is committing fraud.
The hell? They are not obligated to enforce their rules.

[Starcade]

You're just a pretentious poser, as GreatGuardian said, do it or shut up. You don't really want to do anything, you just like sitting in front of your computer playing the self righteous martyr.

I don't really want to do anything??

Straight up, go screw yourself.

Put me on your ignore list, /blist me if you're on my server, and straight up go screw yourself.

Attitudes like yours are killing this game.

[Starcade]

The hell? They are not obligated to enforce their rules.

THE HELL????

Ummmm, do you not think that the only reason I'd pay $12.95/mo is that they be required to enforce rules violations when they are continually made aware of them?

Otherwise, their expectations of fair play constitute fraud against the cheaters.

[rog]

THE HELL????

Ummmm, do you not think that the only reason I'd pay $12.95/mo is that they be required to enforce rules violations when they are continually made aware of them?

Otherwise, their expectations of fair play constitute fraud against the cheaters.
I do not think you know what fraud is.

[Pharaun]

I don't really want to do anything??

Straight up, go screw yourself.

Put me on your ignore list, /blist me if you're on my server, and straight up go screw yourself.

Attitudes like yours are killing this game.

You don't know anything about me, how can you say that my attitude is killing this game. I'm not the person who's is trying to mount some kind a lone man crusade against everything that I perceive as wrong with a game. You've said it yourself that you play this game not for enjoyment or fun but to be a thorn in the side of all the people who are playing this game to have fun. You can't see that your actions are doing your cause irreparable harm. Most of the people who might agree with you are reluctant to do so because you're such a douchebag.

[Tamoa]

Starcade = Riousan/Feiwong? Has to be.

[Greatguardian]

Starcade = Riousan/Feiwong? Has to be.

Naw, he's a Galka on Leviathan. He's had the same name for years.

[Starcade]

I do not think you know what fraud is.

From Cornell Law through the Market Ticker, the definition of fraud I like to quote when I have people say what you just said:

"Fraud is generally defined in the law as an intentional misrepresentation of material existing fact made by one person to another with knowledge of its falsity and for the purpose of inducing the other person to act, and upon which the other person relies with resulting injury or damage. Fraud may also be made by an omission or purposeful failure to state material facts, which nondisclosure makes other statements misleading."

If Square-Enix is going to make rules and then not enforce them at all, they are knowingly misrepresenting those as Terms of Service, and inducing us to act to believe the game to be fair and the rules enforced.

If those rules are only enforced "when they feel like it", then the fraud could be expanded to those who were enforced against (which see the Salvage bans).

[Starcade]

Starcade = Riousan/Feiwong? Has to be.

Not the first time I've been accused of being that utter piece of crap.

[Starcade]

You don't know anything about me, how can you say that my attitude is killing this game. I'm not the person who's is trying to mount some kind a lone man crusade against everything that I perceive as wrong with a game. You've said it yourself that you play this game not for enjoyment or fun but to be a thorn in the side of all the people who are playing this game to have fun. You can't see that your actions are doing your cause irreparable harm. Most of the people who might agree with you are reluctant to do so because you're such a douchebag.

Dammit, maybe somebody NEEDS to mount that freaking crusade, don't you think???

Oh, I'm sorry I'm not a cheater or an enabler like you.

Your own words show the attitude you have toward cheating and the like -- so don't give me that baloney, because I'm not listening to it.

When most players' idea of "having fun" is to deny the enjoyment of the game to all but themselves and their friends, frankly, I don't give a flying rats patoot about their "having fun" when it involves thousand-dollar bots, RMT, poshacking, Windower, and all else they feel is necessary to have fun.

The only reason I still play this game is to spit at attitudes like yours.

[Tamoa]

Not the first time I've been accused of being that utter piece of crap.

Probably because you both seem to share the same kind of self-righteous attitude.

[Starcade]

Probably because you both seem to share the same kind of self-righteous attitude.

Except he's a lying sack of crap.

[Henihhi]

Dammit, maybe somebody NEEDS to mount that freaking crusade, don't you think???

Oh, I'm sorry I'm not a cheater or an enabler like you.

Your own words show the attitude you have toward cheating and the like -- so don't give me that baloney, because I'm not listening to it.

When most players' idea of "having fun" is to deny the enjoyment of the game to all but themselves and their friends, frankly, I don't give a flying rats patoot about their "having fun" when it involves thousand-dollar bots, RMT, poshacking, Windower, and all else they feel is necessary to have fun.

The only reason I still play this game is to spit at attitudes like yours.

If this is your attitude, then maybe you should quit. Sounds like this game causes you too much stress, and none of us would like for you to keel over dead from a heart attack.

[Starcade]

If this is your attitude, then maybe you should quit. Sounds like this game causes you too much stress, and none of us would like for you to keel over dead from a heart attack.

I would, except THAT'S WHAT THESE JACKALOPES WANT.

(And I do believe that most of them would openly want me dead of a heart attack just to go away and take what few legitimate players are left with me...)

[Greatguardian]

I would, except THAT'S WHAT THESE JACKALOPES WANT.

(And I do believe that most of them would openly want me dead of a heart attack just to go away and take what few legitimate players are left with me...)

I could honestly care less if you play or not. You're arrogant, outspoken, and self-righteous. But you have every right to state your opinions and play how you want. From what I've read, you're actually not a horrible person in-game. Just a bitter Galka who got laughed at one-too-many times back in the day. Do what you want, but I promise it's a lot easier to be accepted by people when you yourself are accepting of others.

[Forevergogo]

OP:
"Brew holds are use brew and uses treasure chest , conflux , mart any thing get npc talk to. and accident for some people."

Take your time and write out your complain coherently, please!

I think you're complaining that you can be accused of extending the intended duration of the infamous 'brew' by all sorts of means. I don't think this is a ban worthy offense, but suggest to your banned friends to take the matter up with the gm who banned them.

Now, exploiting a glitch- which Can and Has been done with this, that IS a ban worthy offense. Though, I'm surprised they weren't given a warning... like drinking the brew, having friends gather hordes of mobs for you to mow down, then 'pause' by clicking a stupid red chest or something, while loot and experience fill the screen..... Yeah, that sorta seems to be exploiting a glitch with the brew (albeit you're really only 'making the most bang for your buck') you could also use this trick to fast-track through magian trials at a sickening speed.. very not cool.

Bottom line-
It is up to the GMs to decide who "ACCIDENTLY" goes AFK on a chest between kills while their brew is up, and who "Intentionally, and repetitively" does so to exploit the system in their favor. You pay to play and abide by certain codes of conduct- if you screw up, sometimes you get put in time out.... or worse! It is all in the agreement...

[Greatguardian]

OP:
"Brew holds are use brew and uses treasure chest , conflux , mart any thing get npc talk to. and accident for some people."

Take your time and write out your complain coherently, please!

I think you're complaining that you can be accused of extending the intended duration of the infamous 'brew' by all sorts of means. I don't think this is a ban worthy offense, but suggest to your banned friends to take the matter up with the gm who banned them.

Now, exploiting a glitch- which Can and Has been done with this, that IS a ban worthy offense. Though, I'm surprised they weren't given a warning... like drinking the brew, having friends gather hordes of mobs for you to mow down, then 'pause' by clicking a stupid red chest or something, while loot and experience fill the screen..... Yeah, that sorta seems to be exploiting a glitch with the brew (albeit you're really only 'making the most bang for your buck') you could also use this trick to fast-track through magian trials at a sickening speed.. very not cool.

Bottom line-
It is up to the GMs to decide who "ACCIDENTLY" goes AFK on a chest between kills while their brew is up, and who "Intentionally, and repetitively" does so to exploit the system in their favor. You pay to play and abide by certain codes of conduct- if you screw up, sometimes you get put in time out.... or worse! It is all in the agreement...

Senior GMs have already stated that this is not an Exploit and is in the game intentionally. OP's friends either broke the TOS or got screwed by the Billing cycle.

[Tamoa]

Oh for crying out loud - it's NOT a bannable offense, it has already been stated by a SE representative in another thread on this very forum that it is known mechanic and by design. Several others have already pointed this out and even posted link/quote in this thread. People need to learn how to read. -.-

Here, again: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/2817-Brew-Lock?p=34730&viewfull=1#post34730

[SNK]

Dammit, maybe somebody NEEDS to mount that freaking crusade, don't you think???

Oh, I'm sorry I'm not a cheater or an enabler like you.

Your own words show the attitude you have toward cheating and the like -- so don't give me that baloney, because I'm not listening to it.

When most players' idea of "having fun" is to deny the enjoyment of the game to all but themselves and their friends, frankly, I don't give a flying rats patoot about their "having fun" when it involves thousand-dollar bots, RMT, poshacking, Windower, and all else they feel is necessary to have fun.

The only reason I still play this game is to spit at attitudes like yours.

Wow and I thought I had anger issues sometimes. You're just so full of hate.

[Sayelle]

Wow and I thought I had anger issues sometimes. You're just so full of hate.

I think he's just tilting at windmills, maybe he should go have a nice long chat with Krystal since she's a psychologist and get some help with his anger management issues.

[Khajit]

WTF is this shit. There's already been a topic on this and the senior moogle person already said that SE doesn't give a crap atm.

[Starcade]

Oh for crying out loud - it's NOT a bannable offense, it has already been stated by a SE representative in another thread on this very forum that it is known mechanic and by design. Several others have already pointed this out and even posted link/quote in this thread. People need to learn how to read. -.-

Here, again: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/2817-Brew-Lock?p=34730&viewfull=1#post34730

Then they need to reexamine how these players are using that design and EXPLOITING it.

It's an EXPLOIT of the mechanism, and that most certainly IS bannable if they're using that kind of stuff to hold in the manners described.

That's why Square-Enix had a rule on the books that any action taken outside of intended purposes could be considered an exploit and bannable.

[Starcade]

Wow and I thought I had anger issues sometimes. You're just so full of hate.

And where the hate is deserved, the problem with that is... WHAT?

[Afrohatch]

That's why Square-Enix had a rule on the books that any action taken outside of intended purposes could be considered an exploit and bannable.

They said it's working as intended, though~

[noodles355]

they still ban people?! i know when you do a GM call for botting all you get is a nice little"we dont care" msg from the GM'sThis. So much this.

[Tamoa]

Then they need to reexamine how these players are using that design and EXPLOITING it.

It's an EXPLOIT of the mechanism, and that most certainly IS bannable if they're using that kind of stuff to hold in the manners described.

That's why Square-Enix had a rule on the books that any action taken outside of intended purposes could be considered an exploit and bannable.

Are you thick or something? Do you honestly think SE doesn't already know this??? It's been reported as an in-game bug on this forum where SE replied, and I repeat, "a KNOWN mechanic and BY DESIGN". It was also said that it doesn't mean adjustments won't be made in the future. I.e. they can't ban people for it because they have straight out said "hey we purposely made it that way". However they will probably nerf this at some point in the future.

[Novax]

Starcade I feel a little sorry for you, having been on the same server for a few years and seeing some awkward things from your Ls(s). I believe even if there were no botters/windower users or whatever you feel is unjust in our FFXI you'd still be as bad as you are now.

Greatguardian no he's just as abrasive and inconsiderate in-game as well. I remember his shell wiping to rani and I'm killing dolls and get a random /tell "TOUCH MY RANI AND I'LL FUCKING GM" from this guy, was a little weird then I laughed as another group stole it.

[rog]

Dammit, maybe somebody NEEDS to mount that freaking crusade, don't you think???

Oh, I'm sorry I'm not a cheater or an enabler like you.

Your own words show the attitude you have toward cheating and the like -- so don't give me that baloney, because I'm not listening to it.

When most players' idea of "having fun" is to deny the enjoyment of the game to all but themselves and their friends, frankly, I don't give a flying rats patoot about their "having fun" when it involves thousand-dollar bots, RMT, poshacking, Windower, and all else they feel is necessary to have fun.

The only reason I still play this game is to spit at attitudes like yours.
You have to be harmed by it.

[Starcade]

Are you thick or something? Do you honestly think SE doesn't already know this??? It's been reported as an in-game bug on this forum where SE replied, and I repeat, "a KNOWN mechanic and BY DESIGN".


Yeah, I guess I'm "thick" to see that people are EXPLOITING that mechanic to possibly extend the amount of time they are under brew so monsters can be held so that more people can kill them?

Hell, you people think I'm so stupid, and even I figured that out in about 4 seconds.

There is a difference (not that a cheater/enabler like you would care -- pick the one you are) between the mechanic being intended and the way people are using it being intended.

Logging hate has the same problem. The mechanic of logging out is intended, but doing so specifically to remove hate is an EXPLOIT.


It was also said that it doesn't mean adjustments won't be made in the future. I.e. they can't ban people for it because they have straight out said "hey we purposely made it that way". However they will probably nerf this at some point in the future.

They said the same thing about Salvage for two years.

[Starcade]

You have to be harmed by it.

Actually, I am harmed -- the only legal question would be sufficient harm to claim legal damage.

I am harmed because there are portions of this game, because I refuse to play with illegal programs, that I will not be able to play. That's reality and truth.

I am harmed because the game has no future, due to the known necessities of cheating and skirting the rules.

I am harmed because what I _do_ do in the game is damaged because very few players fundamentally respect fair play.

Care I go on, Rog?

[rog]

Actually, I am harmed -- the only legal question would be sufficient harm to claim legal damage.

I am harmed because there are portions of this game, because I refuse to play with illegal programs, that I will not be able to play. That's reality and truth.

I am harmed because the game has no future, due to the known necessities of cheating and skirting the rules.

I am harmed because what I _do_ do in the game is damaged because very few players fundamentally respect fair play.

Care I go on, Rog?
You would have a better chance suing every cop/police station.

[Tsuneo]

Kiss my entire white keester, cheater.

The only reason I am "bad" is because I am limited in what I can do in the game to what the cheaters and exploiters won't run over -- and that includes those necro-claims which Square-Enix should declare exploits and ban the lot of you jackalopes for.


What are you even talking about? Majority of the good gear now comes from Abyssea. How are people keeping you from obtaining gear in Abyssea? Sounds like you just want gear to fail into your lap.

[Cream_Soda]

Starcade,
http://images2.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/6308405/my-scouter-detects-that-you-are-mad.jpg?imageSize=Medium&generatorName=Raditz

[Tamoa]

Starcade,

please post a link to where an SE representative said they know about the salvage dupe "trick" and that it is a known mechanic and by design. I would really like to see it. Because, as far as I know, that was a glitch and not purposely made to work that way.

Anyway, my advice to you is to stop playing. This game seems to cause you so much stress it can't possibly be healthy, and you obviously don't play because you have fun and enjoy it. And honestly, don't you realize how absolutely ridiculous you seem, getting SO worked up over what other people do in a game - to the point where you want to sue SE. Good luck with that by the way, go sue SE because they have designed certain mechanics of the game in such a manner that it upsets you.

"Your honour, SE has caused me mental distress and kept me from enjoying the game that I voluntarily play and pay for, because of how they designed the temporary item called Primeval Brew in such a manner that players can pause the timer and thus kill multiple monsters using only one of said temporary items."

[Cerelyn]

are u sure?
well a ban list would be dead ass long if they keep, might be that they say its permanent and u believe it because u can't use it after 4 or 5 months.And after 6months they maybe clean the list to reduce the calculation the server has to do (file size would increase and increase and increase if they don't do it).
i know its speculative but it could be.

happened to me at diablo II the only time i was cheating , its like 6 years ago, and i got banned for maphack.
so i am branded and i've never used cheat/3rd party tools again.
however it showed me perm bann and after approx 6 months i was able to use the key again.

If that's true my friend could play now who got banned 2 years ago? Dont think so.

[Sayelle]

Yeah, I guess I'm "thick" to see that people are EXPLOITING that mechanic to possibly extend the amount of time they are under brew so monsters can be held so that more people can kill them?

Hell, you people think I'm so stupid, and even I figured that out in about 4 seconds.

There is a difference (not that a cheater/enabler like you would care -- pick the one you are) between the mechanic being intended and the way people are using it being intended.

Logging hate has the same problem. The mechanic of logging out is intended, but doing so specifically to remove hate is an EXPLOIT.

You're just tilting at windmills again...

Were you dropped on your head as a child, perhaps multiple times. That's the only thing that I can figure out that would cause you to be so delusional.

If you were to have your way we'd still be stuck back in the stone ages getting exp at 3k/hr with only paladins as tanks because that's the way that SE intended it. We wouldn't have Nin or /nin blink tanking since SE didn't consider the possibility of spamming utsusemi as a way to avoid to damage. Just because SE didn't intend for a certain gameplay mechanic to be used in a different way doesn't mean that it violates the TOS.

Pretty much every innovation in game strategy came from some one finding a new and unique way to use the game mechanics that SE most likely had not considered. At that point SE will come out and say if the new tactic is legit or not. In this case they have specifically said that they know about using NPC interactions to stop the brew timer and they are completely fine with it at this time.

Despite what your delusional brain tells you, you are not the person who gets to determine what is an exploit in the game, that is left up SE. You seriously need to go get some help for your obvious mental disorders.

[rog]

If you were to have your way we'd still be stuck back in the stone ages getting exp at 3k/hr with only paladins as tanks because that's the way that SE intended it. We wouldn't have Nin or /nin blink tanking since SE didn't consider the possibility of spamming utsusemi as a way to avoid to damage. Just because SE didn't intend for a certain gameplay mechanic to be used in a different way doesn't mean that it violates the TOS. Yes they did intend for it. Maybe they did not intend for nin to replace pld as a tank, but they absolutely intended for it to be used to avoid taking any damage. Nin was intended to be exactly what it is today: a strong dd, with incredible defensive capabilities.

[Zumi]

I don't get it how is people using brews to kill 7 or 8 NMs in a row hurts your game at all? Some people on here just like to complain about every little thing. Honestly I hope SE doesn't change the way brews work because it would just inconvenience the majority of the playerbase if brews all of a sudden still count down their timer when talking to a NPC.

Say if I can kill 8 nms in 1 brew thats 1.4m curor I don't need to farm.

Don't you people have better things to do then complain about brew locking?

[Miera]

I don't see the wrong in Brew locking, its a mistake on SE's part, why should someone get punished for a mistake SE made? Besides they are using their Cruor to purchase said brew if people want to go brew happy by all means let them, they'll eventually run out of cruor.

[Starcade]

They said it's working as intended, though~

They said the same about the Salvage stuff too until someone decided to embarrass Square-Enix outside of the game.

[Starcade]

You would have a better chance suing every cop/police station.

If I had standing to do so, but the Supreme Court has already made a decision on that...

(Specifically, that the cops have no obligation to protect you whatsoever...)

[Starcade]

I don't see the wrong in Salvage duping, its a mistake on SE's part, why should someone get punished for a mistake SE made? Besides they are using their Assault Points to purchase said access if people want to go brew happy by all means let them, they'll eventually run out of Assault Points.

The more things change, the more the cheaters/enablers stay the same.

[Tamoa]

Way to go, twisting other people's words Starcade. How very mature of you.

Again, please post a link to where an SE representative said that the Salvage duping was a known mechanic and by design.

[Starcade]

You're just tilting at windmills again...


Considering the audience here, I'm not surprised you think that.


Were you dropped on your head as a child, perhaps multiple times. That's the only thing that I can figure out that would cause you to be so delusional.

If you were to have your way we'd still be stuck back in the stone ages getting exp at 3k/hr with only paladins as tanks because that's the way that SE intended it.

Better that than have everybody cheat their butts off.

Final Fantasy was never meant to be an "easy" franchise.


We wouldn't have Nin or /nin blink tanking since SE didn't consider the possibility of spamming utsusemi as a way to avoid to damage. Just because SE didn't intend for a certain gameplay mechanic to be used in a different way doesn't mean that it violates the TOS.


Actually, it used to. And for that specific wording of the definition of an exploit (it was Q12652, if my memory serves). That, in fact, was the specific definition of an exploit -- an action taken outside of intended gameplay use.


Pretty much every innovation in game strategy came from some one finding a new and unique way to use the game mechanics that SE most likely had not considered. At that point SE will come out and say if the new tactic is legit or not. In this case they have specifically said that they know about using NPC interactions to stop the brew timer and they are completely fine with it at this time.

And here's the problem with that: Many of the most prominent players were eventually banned because of an exploit that they were told (and it was well-known to the endgame community that it was) that it was completely fine at this time.


Despite what your delusional brain tells you, you are not the person who gets to determine what is an exploit in the game, that is left up SE. You seriously need to go get some help for your obvious mental disorders.

Actually, I think the problem is that Square-Enix sticks their finger into the wind and decides on that basis, rather than an actual investigation of the situation.

[Starcade]

Mods, is it legal for me to post such information -- or is this enabler trying to lay a trap?

[Tamoa]

I'm either being ignored, or Starcade has put me on ignore list. Not like it matters one way or another, it's as clear as day that he is convinced he's been chosen to go on a holy crusade against anyone who does something he disapproves of in this game. I feel sorry for you, playing a game that's supposed to be fun and entertaining, out of sheer spite. You must be one bitter, bitter man.

[Starcade]

I'm not ignoring you, cheat-enabler.

I'm just suspicious you're trying to pull something.

The facts are -- and they were very well-known -- that Square-Enix, through the GMs, had known about the Salvage duping for at least EIGHTEEN MONTHS before actually trying to do something about it. This (as well as Salvage duping itself) was basically known to EVERYONE DOING SALVAGE SERIOUSLY.

(One of the reasons, frankly, I'd have terminated Salvage completely and removed all of it from the game almost 2 1/2 years ago.)

[Tamoa]

You still haven't posted a link as I asked for. I would like to see something that proves SE said Salvage duping was a known mechanic and by design. I'm not denying that they knew about it well before they actually did something about it, I just want to know where they said it was ok, and then did a 180 and banned people for it.

And just a fyi - I never took part in Salvage dupings at all (in fact I didn't know about it until the bans hit), and I have never paused a brew by interacting with a NPC in game. Cheat-enabler? lol, just lol.

[Glamdring]

I was so annoyed noone told me about that bard campaign XP exploit until after it was removed. I would have loved the free merit points, would have saved me weeks of work.

Exploits are not a bannable offense UNTIL they are announced as such, they are simply someone thinking their way past a door developers never contemplated or thought they had shut. Use 'em until told not to, then don't get caught!

[Starcade]

I was so annoyed noone told me about that bard campaign XP exploit until after it was removed. I would have loved the free merit points, would have saved me weeks of work.

Exploits are not a bannable offense UNTIL they are announced as such, they are simply someone thinking their way past a door developers never contemplated or thought they had shut. Use 'em until told not to, then don't get caught!

Then the Salvage banned have a case to tell Square-Enix to go screw.

No. You are WRONG about when exploits become bannable.

[Yugl]

fixed that for you.

FoVs been around 8 yrs Rog.

[Selzak]

I think holding a brew is ban-worthy, but not 6 months ban-worthy.

For situations like that, it should fall on the developers to fix the exploit first and foremost. If they're incapable of fixing it, then they should warn players against exploiting the bug that they can not fix.

After that, bans are appropriate. Six months though, that's entirely too harsh.

[Neisan_Quetz]

They know about it, at the moment, it is working by design, it might change in the future, that's it. Until they say they are changing how brew works when interacting with NPC, it isn't an exploit that's bannable for.

[Starcade]

If we're going to actually try to tag me, get your spelling right...

What you want on me is a STRAITJACKET...

Morons...

And I see more of the cheaters' arrogance. If what you were claiming were any degree of true, there's about 1,000 cheating pieces of... who want all their Salvage gear back.

[Kazen]

I just love locking brew timers; you can always find a way! With the addition of the Magian Trial Log specs you have a portable brew locking device which is obviously the best use of the specs. Now excuse me while I go be extremely efficient.

[Tohihroyu]

I just love cheating; you can always find a way! With the addition of the Magian Trial Log specs you have a portable cheating device which is obviously the best use of the specs.(screw trials they're too easy with my bots doing it for me) Now excuse me while I go be extremely lazy & cheap.

FIFY.

I can't wait to see cheaters like you permanently banned.

[Cream_Soda]

FIFY.

I can't wait to see cheaters like you permanently banned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6SXAPCdRi0

[Tohihroyu]

Aww how cute Windower cheaters are mad at me ^.^

You wont be laughing when SE actually dose something & bans the lot of you, you make it so horribly easy! bragging about the cheats, the bots, the exploits they may as well call it shooting fish in a barrel.

Then again most of the big time botters are more then likely paying SE lots of clink clink so they can stay for a little longer till the staff smartens up & lays the ban hammer down.

[Kazen]

FIFY.

I can't wait to see cheaters like you permanently banned.

Too easy. I've never once used a bot in FFXI ever. I think it might be in your best interests to take a break from this game seeing how emotional this game makes you. I say this only because I'm sure people like you; people that get so worked up and emotional over the things that others do in a video game that does not pertain to you probably has some effects on your blood pressure.

[Cream_Soda]

are mad


I can't wait to see cheaters like you permanently banned.

Who was mad brah?

fap moar @ Galka

[Cream_Soda]

bragging about the cheats, the bots, the exploits they may as well call it shooting fish in a barrel.

Except the part where the developers said it was working as intended and not an exploit, lol

[Denabond]

All I'm gonna say is until people actually get banned from this, brew holds will still be done. I'm not gonna argue if its cheating or not, but i will say even if people cant brew hold, that doesn't change the fact that most people have enough cruor to buy maybe 10-15 brews. So really, it doesn't really matter if they can hold the brew or not.

[Tamoa]

How can anyone say brew holding is cheating when SE has said it is a known mechanic and by design? They have outright said "it is ok to brew hold at the moment, however we might change how this works in the future". How is that cheating? Is it cheating just because you don't like the fact that people do it?

[Runespider]

This thread is still going? Rep said it was fine, same way they said AB was fine and nobody got banned for it.

[Tamoa]

This thread is still going? Rep said it was fine, same way they said AB was fine and nobody got banned for it.

Exactly.

However, some people on here can't seem to get that fact through their thick skulls.
"OMG YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING SE HAS SAID IS OK, BUT I DON'T LIKE THAT YOU'RE DOING IT YOU CHEATER!!"

[Byrth]

SE makes the rules and chooses how to enforce them. They've said this is not against the rules. I don't understand why anyone would continue to discuss the "legality" of this.

If you're going to be against Brew-holding, you'd have to come at it from an "I'm against brewing in general" standpoint and work outwards.

[Greatguardian]

It pretty much comes down to people not bothering to read past the OP and then posting a reply. I absolutely cannot fathom anyone who had bothered to read past page 2 of this thread actually thinking Brew holding is "an exploit".

GMs did not say "We know about this and it's okay for now". GMs said "This is intentional."

[Dooom]

I absolutely cannot fathom anyone who had bothered to read past page 2 of this thread actually thinking Brew holding is "an exploit".

Nor can I understand how people continue to rage about it - or raged in the first place! I mean c'mon. It's a form of entertainment. None of it matters. And yet people rage about it to the extent they threaten violence, and insist their main reason for "playing" is some sort of moral victory! Moral victory over what? You want to run a moral crusade? There are infinitely better targets for it than this. "Yeah man I know the world is full of human rights abuses, corrupt governments, and all that bad jazz, BUT OMG THESE PEOPLE ARE PLAYING A VIDEO GAME IN A WAY I DO NOT AGREE WITH AND THIS IS WORTHY OF MY RAGE AND TIME!!!".

Grow up.

[Starcade]

So when is Square-Enix going to get it and understand that my presence in FFXI is probably:

"Threatening and does not contribute to the discussion."

Hey, Square-Enix... I've been banned from basically everything in this game but these forums and the game itself.

If the social nature of this game is THAT important to you that you are going to deliberately turn your back on fair play to keep "the customers" happy, then you have but one alternative: My removal from FFXI.

I will not "contribute to the discussion" of a playerbase hell-bent on the creation of a cheat-fest.

I would be far more "Threatening" in that concept than anything said here so far.

If you are that dead-set on allowing these people to run over your game, then you don't want me on it.

[Kazen]

It has nothing to do with you playing FFXI or not playing FFXI as they do not care either way. When you make a threat it will get deleted. Maybe you're too thick to realize that you made a threat against SE but that's the only reason your post got removed.

[Starcade]

It pretty much comes down to people not bothering to read past the OP and then posting a reply. I absolutely cannot fathom anyone who had bothered to read past page 2 of this thread actually thinking Brew holding is "an exploit".

GMs did not say "We know about this and it's okay for now". GMs said "This is intentional."

And you, as an apologist, continue not to realize that it was not intentional as anything more than to allow for the player to, for valid purpose, use NPC's, etc., without burning the time.

It WAS NOT intentional for the players to EXPLOIT that concept to allow for an indefinite brew time.

[Starcade]

It has nothing to do with you playing FFXI or not playing FFXI as they do not care either way. When you make a threat it will get deleted. Maybe you're too thick to realize that you made a threat against SE but that's the only reason your post got removed.

Perhaps that's the only thing SE will listen to. Embarrassing them outside the game sphere was the only means by which they did the Salvage bans in the first place.

It's either going to be the cheaters or it's going to be me.

[Cream_Soda]

And you, as an apologist, continue not to realize that it was not intentional as anything more than to allow for the player to, for valid purpose, use NPC's, etc., without burning the time.

It WAS NOT intentional for the players to EXPLOIT that concept to allow for an indefinite brew time.
What part of "it is working as intended" do you not understand?

What are they gonna do? "Oh hey yea, that is the way it's supposed to work" 2 months later "oh hey, we said it was supposed to work that way, but you're banned now!"

[Kazen]

Oh yes, because using "threats" against a multi-million dollar corporation who doesn't give two shits about you on a personal level will be effective.

By using your logic, they can either keep you as an individual happy or they can keep a much larger majority of the player-base happy. It's not really much of a stretch here to see which they're going to pick being a corporation whose purpose is to make a profit.

[Starcade]

Oh yes, because using "threats" against a multi-million dollar corporation who doesn't give two shits about you on a personal level will be effective.

By using your logic, they can either keep you as an individual happy or they can keep a much larger majority of the player-base happy. It's not really much of a stretch here to see which they're going to pick being a corporation whose purpose is to make a profit.

More like "to defraud the customers". The American Way in action...

If they don't give a darn about the way people play the game, then those of us who spend our $12.95/mo need to know that so we can take it into account.

The only reason I play this game at all is to spit at that concept and all it stands for. Square-Enix is going to have to make that choice.

It's too bad this game is stagnating where the power structure which killed this game at 75 is going to take care of the rest of it.

[Henihhi]

I think starcade ran out of his ritalin or xanax or whatever they feed the crazy people.

[Starcade]

What part of "it is working as intended" do you not understand?

What are they gonna do? "Oh hey yea, that is the way it's supposed to work" 2 months later "oh hey, we said it was supposed to work that way, but you're banned now!"

What part of "they use that excuse to justify the cheaters when the cheaters go far beyond that concept" do YOU not understand?

Under your interpretation of "working as intended", why is there a 3 minute time limit at all for Brew?

(And please tell me that guy in the sig is not you. If it is, turn in your Man Card.)

[Starcade]

I think starcade ran out of his ritalin or xanax or whatever they feed the crazy people.

No, in your eyes, they ran out of "straight jackets". [sic]

I don't agree with you, so I'm crazy by definition.

Don't think I don't know how it works.

[Cream_Soda]

What part of "they use that excuse to justify the cheaters when the cheaters go far beyond that concept" do YOU not understand?

Under your interpretation of "working as intended", why is there a 3 minute time limit at all for Brew?

(And please tell me that guy in the sig is not you. If it is, turn in your Man Card.)
I'd like for you to answer the question that was presented to you.

Since you like to compare to salvage so much, I can guarantee you if you were tripling drops and called a GM and told them about it, they would not say that things were working as intended.

[Henihhi]

Wow man you seriously need to get your anger under control. You have already proved yourself delusional by threatening people, and seriously believing SE would rather keep you <1 person> over the rest of the people that play. SE has answered the brew question, you don't like their answer so you rant and rave about "cheaters". If it bothers you that much, quit and save your 12.95 or whatever every month.

[Kazen]

If you save your $12.95 a month maybe you can get that help that you seem to really require. I don't think I've ever seen anyone get this worked up over a video game and I doubt that it's healthy.

[Starcade]

I'd like for you to answer the question that was presented to you.

Since you like to compare to salvage so much, I can guarantee you if you were tripling drops and called a GM and told them about it, they would not say that things were working as intended.

One, I won't touch Salvage for that reason -- it's a cheaters' game mechanic which should've been removed when the investigation indicated the level of abuse.

Two, I don't believe you when you say that unequivocably.

In fact, I begin to openly wonder if Square-Enix has a certain set of players they will allow to rip the game apart because they are deemed "more equal than others". I've had numerous people tell me that.

[Starcade]

Please, dear God, tell me the players aren't this stupid!!

[Starcade]

If you save your $12.95 a month maybe you can get that help that you seem to really require. I don't think I've ever seen anyone get this worked up over a video game and I doubt that it's healthy.

It ain't just about the game.

If you took one freaking look at the attitudes all over this board during the games' suspension, you'd realize that your arrogance (collectively and individually) goes far beyond when you log in and out of Vana'diel.

That's what honks me off far worse -- you play as you are.

[Karbuncle]

You know a lot of the threats you're making could land you in court if SE really finds you to be a threat.

You may hate how they play but getting yourself fined or thrown in jail over it is stupid. What good will you do there?

[Kazen]

How am I arrogant? I've never claimed to be superior nor have I said I'm better than any other poster here. I act the same exact way in game as I do on these forums. I play as I am because I am who I am. I don't have any sort of superiority complex like you seem to have.

I'm not really seeing any attitudes on this forum, but rather I'm seeing a full spectrum of players in different stages of the game. Every game has it's more skillful players and less skillful players. Obviously this means that you're going to see differing opinions but that is not the meaning of arrogance.

[Cream_Soda]

You know a lot of the threats you're making could land you in court if SE really finds you to be a threat.

You may hate how they play but getting yourself fined or thrown in jail over it is stupid. What good will you do there?
Free sex, duh

[Starcade]

I've had to learn over the years that my very presence is considered "threatening". So I have to deal on that level.

The very fact that I play FFXI is "threatening", because I refuse to accept the rampant cheating which is necessary for the community.

I've already gone to jail once over this type of stuff -- hence my earlier comment on "psycho posts" which was removed.

Rational discourse does not work on those whose agendas are to cheat their way to absolute dominance. You call them out and you hold them answerable. If that doesn't work in the eyes of Square-Enix, then they have but one alternative: to remove those who call them out as "threatening" to the community of FFXI.

[Starcade]

How am I arrogant? I've never claimed to be superior nor have I said I'm better than any other poster here. I act the same exact way in game as I do on these forums. I play as I am because I am who I am. I don't have any sort of superiority complex like you seem to have.

I'm not really seeing any attitudes on this forum, but rather I'm seeing a full spectrum of players in different stages of the game. Every game has it's more skillful players and less skillful players. Obviously this means that you're going to see differing opinions but that is not the meaning of arrogance.

Then you have very selective memory, Kazen.

[Karbuncle]

Threats and Violence will never solve anything. Arguing with people over the internet and threatening them just makes you look like a maniac. You lose any credibility, thus shooting yourself in the foot.

You don't have to accept something just because you feel you do. You could easily change your ways to not resort to being threatening. "Rampant Cheating" isn't a norm in this game. I have never brew-held, Even though i recognize is a game mechanic, I don't do it cause i've never had a reason too.

SE doesn't accept Cheating, Salvage bans, the Special Task Force, Absolute Virtue bans, Stuff like that proves they will ban cheaters when they have proof and find it.

[Starcade]

Threats and Violence will never solve anything. Arguing with people over the internet and threatening them just makes you look like a maniac. You lose any credibility, thus shooting yourself in the foot.

You don't have to accept something just because you feel you do. You could easily change your ways to not resort to being threatening. "Rampant Cheating" isn't a norm in this game. I have never brew-held, Even though i recognize is a game mechanic, I don't do it cause i've never had a reason too.

SE doesn't accept Cheating, Salvage bans, the Special Task Force, Absolute Virtue bans, Stuff like that proves they will ban cheaters when they have proof and find it.

Square-Enix absolutely accepts cheating in numerous forms. Windower, numerous exploits they refuse to anything about, not arresting RMT and putting them in prison, not doing the same to bot-creators, etc. and so forth.

Square-Enix accepts cheating, it appears, because it has to to keep FFXI alive. And that is repulsive to me.

I have no credibility in the FFXI community, because I want no part of it.

[Kazen]

How do they go about arresting RMT and putting them in prison? The ToS is not a contract affected by any sort of law. Breaking the ToS is not illegal. I'm not even going to go into the issue of international law because that just goes even another step beyond to show they can't do much.

SE accepts "cheating" like windower because they can't detect it as it is client side data and the game isn't coded in a way where they have access to that sort of data.

[Karbuncle]

Well thats a lie and we both know it. if you didn't want any part of this you wouldn't be here trying to change it, complaining about it, Or making threats over it.

That being said, there are other ways to go about it, and SE does not openly accept these cheats. people have been banned for Windower, very few admittedly cause you basically have to say "I use Windower" for them to ban you.

They don't accept Cheating, They can simply do nothing about it without proof. Furthermore, They have pressed charges against someone over FFXI, I don't recall his name but it was in the news.

And you can't Arrest RMT unfortunately the law doesn't work that way. They can't/won't issue international warrants for RMT, thats absurd.

You have no reason to be so upset simply because people don't play how you want them too. If you feel everyone is cheating, Play a Single Player game. You have no reason to have mental break-downs every time someone pops a Moogle Specs.

[Starcade]

How do they go about arresting RMT and putting them in prison? The ToS is not a contract affected by any sort of law. Breaking the ToS is not illegal. I'm not even going to go into the issue of international law because that just goes even another step beyond to show they can't do much.


I've got a blog-ful of posts which show you are wrong. In fact, if what you said was not right, there would be no clause in the contract (and it IS a contract which we agree to with Square-Enix!) that all disputes are settled with California law with American players, for one example.

The acquisition of gear through illegal means could be considered criminal theft in the state of California.

I guess I should not be surprised. The arrogance of people like you knows no end. If there were no contract, and no legal basis to remove RMT and jail them, then there is no illegality of RMT at all, and the central basis that Square-Enix owns the game and everything in it is null and void.

[Starcade]

Well thats a lie and we both know it. if you didn't want any part of this you wouldn't be here trying to change it, complaining about it, Or making threats over it.


I said the "community", not the forum. I would rather disrupt the community and it's acceptance on cheaters.

I do not play this game to make friends.

I do not play this game to be a part of a "community" based on fraud.

It's that simple.


That being said, there are other ways to go about it, and SE does not openly accept these cheats. people have been banned for Windower, very few admittedly cause you basically have to say "I use Windower" for them to ban you.

And even that could be considered fraudulent because of the number of people known by any such survey of the situation be using Windower and other illegal third-party baloney.

All they have to do is go into blogs and other pictoral galleries of FFXI play and they can find Windower users and ban them.


They don't accept Cheating, They can simply do nothing about it without proof. Furthermore, They have pressed charges against someone over FFXI, I don't recall his name but it was in the news.

After he made, what, $200,000 or so off his bots??? (I think we're talking about the same guy...)

Square-Enix accepts cheating as a part of the survival of the game. Otherwise, ban Windower and ALL who use it.


And you can't Arrest RMT unfortunately the law doesn't work that way. They can't/won't issue international warrants for RMT, thats absurd.

Then Square-Enix' ownership of the game, as expressly stated in every Terms of Service/other such document they have, is null and void. Ownership, in this realm, means you have the control (absolute control) of dissemination. If I can go sell accounts, gil, etc. for real money without being held to the legal theft it is, Square-Enix no longer has that right.

And it is that ownership which is the basis for all other rules and procedures in the game.

[Karbuncle]

Okay, Seriously you have problems. You are an arrogant self-righteous Psychopath who has no right to exist in this Society.

I Hope you get locked up and thrown in jail, You are a threat to everyone around you, and your temper and anger issues will eventually lead to criminal acts.

Its obvious you have simply no grasp on the difference between reality and video game. You have problems. Immediately seek help please.

There is no reason for anyone to take such a serious stance over a Video Game. It's not Real. They don't need to issue International Criminal Warrants over a Video game.

[Kazen]

lol if you think California law poses any threat to people who are not in the United States(or even in the United States for that matter) over breaking something as simple as a video game ToS.

[Tamarsamar]

lol if you think California law poses any threat to people who are not in the United States(or even in the United States for that matter) over breaking something as simple as a video game ToS.

Or, more accurately, not even breaking it, but playing it a certain way which he doesn't like.

I bet he's the kind of person who thinks that bluffing in poker is also "cheating."

[Jhanaka]

Hello Everybody!

We appreciate all the concern shown regarding this issue and others brought up in this discussion.

We are going to go ahead a lock this thread, now, as the question by the OP has been answered. As always, if you feel there is an ongoing problem in our game or if you wish to report third party program use, you can via the /helpdesk in game. One of my GMs will be happy to help out or point you in the right direction.

Thank you, as always.

-Senior Game Master Jhanaka