Dev Input Requested: Macc/Meva Changes

[Mithlas]

I know the patch notes specifically states Reisenjima, Escha, and SoA area - however will this hopefully include HTBF fights and Unity NMs in a future patch? They are ilvl mobs and as such are going to be affected by the nerf in GEO abilities.

[Songen]

they buffed bard to compensate for geo's nerf, mobs that are now one shoting partys need to be compensated with sherzo or smn's earthen ward, also carol's got a boost as well

[Domille]

No, every single mob in the game should not require Scherzo and earthen ward. that's retarded.

Vex and attune need to be put back to where they were.

Adding another job is not an acceptable answer when more hp is added because of it.

[Songen]

if you read what they wrote as the reason why they lowered it, geo spells m acc and m eva were bugged completely, it wasn't a nerf, but a bugg that wasn't detected., it was that the calculation was wrong completely from what they originally intended because it calculated twice at a second point instead of once, they returned it to the original intended value and removed the bug ,

Fact is, people would have made different tactics to begin with had the original value been there instead of the lower value, i personally made a sink about it myself on a magic acc page prior to the update but realised a originally intend value fix isn't something i should be complaining about. DEAL WITH IT, MOVE ON.

Mobs didn't gain any hp, infact it was lowered for the stated areas. both combat and magic skills were lowered on mobs in stated areas

[Domille]

They werent bugged. That's a bs lie they tell to stop you from pitchforking. A bug wouldn't persist for 3 entire years. Get serious.

It's a straight nerf.

[Obysuca]

No, every single mob in the game should not require Scherzo and earthen ward. that's retarded.

Vex and attune need to be put back to where they were.


But isn't that the same thing as how before, every single mob needed a geo? >_>

[Songen]

considering they rarely say anything like "the values came out wrong because the system calculated twice at 2 different points". can you really call it a lie? most of the time they just plainly say its because they think its too strong just as they super nerfed rudra's storm. not to mention they hit out m-acc and m-eva rather than just one thing. all honesty, you gotta be glad they didn't hit Magic-attack/defence as well within that update.

[Songen]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/51851-To-the-devs-Why-won-t-you-nerf-Geomancer

that thread is probably where they decided to nerf geo, if you have a problem, blame them, i let my 2 cents there about their lack of getting jobs enhanced rather than weakened

[Nyarlko]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/51851-To-the-devs-Why-won-t-you-nerf-Geomancer

that thread is probably where they decided to nerf geo, if you have a problem, blame them, i let my 2 cents there about their lack of getting jobs enhanced rather than weakened

And other than 1-2 loud complainers, most of what's there called for the same thing. It's not a true "nerf" when they are fixing a bug, no matter how longstanding said bug is...

Player testing has indicated that the values for GEO macc/meva were higher than what was officially stated for a long time. Makes perfect sense that the formula was bugged, probably introduced w/ the wave of GEO buffs early on in SOA, but it is kind of irritating that it was not tested for sooner. My guess is that they started examining macc related stuff for the planned BRD buffs, extended that into RDM, then finally noticed something odd with GEO. It may not have been a glaring difference w/o Idris included in the picture and didn't become obvious until enough GEOs were running around w/ one to make the devs question anything.

I know that historically, SE has always had a sort of "implement and forget" policy, but certain things (especially system related stuff) should really be retested periodically in my opinion.. At the very least, once every 3-6 months, just to ensure that no bugs have managed to creep in due to any adjustments made in the interim.

[Aysha]

No, every single mob in the game should not require Scherzo and earthen ward. that's retarded.

Vex and attune need to be put back to where they were.

Adding another job is not an acceptable answer when more hp is added because of it.

So it's retarded that Scherzo and Earthen Ward is required for "Every single mob" (I agree), but yet it is NOT retarded that Vex and Attune is required?

LOL?

How does that logic even work?

[Nyarlko]

Adding another job is not an acceptable answer when more hp is added because of it.

In that case, perhaps you can start calling for nerfs to the HP scaling involved in GF NMs. ^^ I think it would be a good thing if the group+1 penalty was lowered in general, or scaled itself so that taking a large group wasn't as painful as it is now when compared to smaller groups. I believe that the ideal would be for difficulty/killtime to be roughly equivalent regardless of group size. If this were the case, would you still be opposed to adding more jobs to the group?

[Domille]

So it's retarded that Scherzo and Earthen Ward is required for "Every single mob" (I agree), but yet it is NOT retarded that Vex and Attune is required?

LOL?

How does that logic even work?

NEEDING vex attune wasnt a good option either. But it at least worked. This does not.

[detlef]

So it's retarded that Scherzo and Earthen Ward is required for "Every single mob" (I agree), but yet it is NOT retarded that Vex and Attune is required?

LOL?

How does that logic even work?Vex and Attunement weren't even really required. Just Vex on its own helped a lot. It really does feel like we've gone from "You always need to bring X" to "You always need to bring X, Y, and Z."

[Domille]

Yeah, it's not like this change did anything against geo, to be quite frank you still need a geo in every set up, the only thing that changed is now you need a geo, AND a bard, AND a summoner, AND a RDM AND a second GEO to do the work of one GEO.

[Nyarlko]

Yeah, it's not like this change did anything against geo, to be quite frank you still need a geo in every set up, the only thing that changed is now you need a geo, AND a bard, AND a summoner, AND a RDM AND a second GEO to do the work of one GEO.

If the bug fix did that much damage, then that just proves that the bug was a bad one that really needed to be fixed. XD

I'm expecting/hoping for a 2nd round of adjustments w/in the next couple months to iron out any issues remaining after this round, (and there are obviously some issues that should be looked at.) I think it would definitely calm things down a bit if we can get a full VERIFIED list of updated effects from every spell directly involved with this month's adjustments.

[Jakuk]

If the bug fix did that much damage, then that just proves that the bug was a bad one that really needed to be fixed. XD

Quoted for truth.

[Songen]

If the bug fix did that much damage, then that just proves that the bug was a bad one that really needed to be fixed. XD


Aggree'd
This game is about using more than one setup, people just don't want to look at it like that

[Domille]

Aggree'd
This game is about using more than one setup, people just don't want to look at it like that

You obviously don't play this game, cause yeah, everything is only done one specific way.

[Aysha]

Sounds like they need to just nerf things across the board to get rid of the GEO requirement altogether, then.

I know this game always had its "popular jobs", but this is getting ridiculous. One job should not be the cornerstone behind ALL endgame content. No job, not Ninja, not Paladin, not even SAM or WAR back in the day cornered ALL the content like this in the past. Some jobs were king in some areas of content, but there was no Be-All, End-All job that everybody felt was required for EVERYTHING.

This proves just how broken GEO is, and how badly it needs nerfed further.

But then, near-permanent AoE Buffs/Debuffs... I only got one question: what were they thinking!?

Did they not foresee the game balance issues this would bring? Yet they won't let RDM have >3min single-target buffs, lol.

[Songen]

why nerf it when you can just fix every other job to get inline, people try to master and pimp their jobs to be the best, not to be made redundant, by enhancing their job instead of nerfing another, you open up peoples favourate jobs to be used in more content, while i'm not a drg main, i'd like to see that job get its wings back, however thats not gonna happen if everyone says nerf. even puppetmaster made its way up slowly not from weakening other jobs but enhancing its own. all people say is nerf nerf nerf,

If your favourate job is geo, good on ya. not complaining about that, since SE reverted geo to its intended calculation, why not come up with another idea to make geo's macc/meva come in line again without saying nerf/get rid of every other job because this is the only job i like

[Domille]

It's literally impossible to do that.

Let's pretend that every single DD job got a massive buff so that they were all within 1 dps of each other.

Do you know what would happen? Every single player would use the one that had the highest dps even if the difference was a single digit. That's how ffxi (humans) work(s).

If geo gave meva 100, bard gave meva 99 and rdm gave meva 98, you would literally never see a rdm used for meva. (assuming said meva did not stack.)

[Secondplanet]

Ever noticed the trend of the people who say X Y Z jobs don't need nerfs, its all other jobs that need increases where the XYZ jobs are the current bandwagon? Yes GEO needed a nerf as it was the only support job that was needed for everything just like BLU needs a nerf as its the new RDM from early/mid 2000's. BST got its nerf (if you even want to call it that) that cut its range of the pet commands down which didn't make a difference to those who actually liked the job for being more then a bandwagon. Even back in the day SMN got a nerf to Perfect Defense cause everyone was using the job for that.

Nerfs come in at times incredibly late like with RDM back in the day where something like 30-40% of the server was it. While some things do need a honest increase due to SE's failure to increase them to match current content while they were stuck in 75 caps or even 99 caps. I do see more nerfs coming in the future to expand party setups to beyond the A,B,C,X,Y,Z setup that is so copy and paste it makes endgame boring at times.

[Mithlas]

Although they did state that GEO values were incorrect, they had also stated that they had given mobs too high of macc and meva so that's the reason why they nerfed them.

I'm simply asking if that same correction of macc and meva can be applied to the areas that include high level monsters that weren't in the patch notes. Why would that be a detriment?

[Aysha]

why nerf it when you can just fix every other job to get inline, people try to master and pimp their jobs to be the best, not to be made redundant, by enhancing their job instead of nerfing another, you open up peoples favourate jobs to be used in more content, while i'm not a drg main, i'd like to see that job get its wings back, however thats not gonna happen if everyone says nerf. even puppetmaster made its way up slowly not from weakening other jobs but enhancing its own. all people say is nerf nerf nerf,

If your favourate job is geo, good on ya. not complaining about that, since SE reverted geo to its intended calculation, why not come up with another idea to make geo's macc/meva come in line again without saying nerf/get rid of every other job because this is the only job i like

How do you propose balancing something utterly ludicrous like AoE de/buffs that last 5min+ on a job that can ALSO do magic DD?

RDM can't DD in any shape, form or manner and ends up being a very MEH healer.
BRD can't DD or heal whatsoever.

How does GEO get away with not only having decent-ish melee clubs (some of the same that are available to WHM), also some decent magic DD, but also be the kings of buffs and debuffs all at the same time?

I never checked... does GEO get Hexa Strike, on top of all that? I think they have access to Realmrazer which is basically the same thing.

[Nyarlko]

Sounds like they need to just nerf things across the board to get rid of the GEO requirement altogether, then.

I know this game always had its "popular jobs", but this is getting ridiculous. One job should not be the cornerstone behind ALL endgame content. No job, not Ninja, not Paladin, not even SAM or WAR back in the day cornered ALL the content like this in the past. Some jobs were king in some areas of content, but there was no Be-All, End-All job that everybody felt was required for EVERYTHING.

This proves just how broken GEO is, and how badly it needs nerfed further.

But then, near-permanent AoE Buffs/Debuffs... I only got one question: what were they thinking!?

Did they not foresee the game balance issues this would bring? Yet they won't let RDM have >3min single-target buffs, lol.

... You never played BRD back in the day, did you? XD We literally were "required" for EVERYTHING. Entire Sky God runs of 1-3x full alliances would be cancelled/postponed if a BRD couldn't be found. I remember being extremely proud that my presence alone resulted in a 10min reduction in our Kirin kills compared to no bard. ^^ (I was one of those crazy party hopper bards that would keep songs up on 30+ others though.)
The problem BRD had until this update was that it was solidly stuck at 75cap power levels. This update appears to have brought a lot of our stuff up to modern standards, so I'm hoping we can finally come back out of the basement. XD

GEO was not likely "broken" until they got updated for the first time. I've seen some old threads that were complaining about how WEAK GEO effects were at launch, so I'm personally convinced that the formula bug was introduced at that time.. It's going to take a bit for the playerbase to adjust to the new environment for sure, but I'm expecting to start seeing more BRD and RDM out and about pretty soon.

Any MMO that has support classes will use the basic/standard group setup: tank, healer, support, enough DDs to fill... The problem we had is that one (glitched) support was overwhelmingly better when compared to the other supports in 99% of available content. (In large part due to said glitch.)

[Aysha]

Yeah, but the difference is, BRD was really nice, but yet it wasn't absolutely required either. Things COULD be done without a bard, just... not as easily.

The cries in this thread, though, make it sound like without GEO you really can't much of anything done.

And that's where the difference is. "Very nice" is one thing... "Absolutely required" is another ballgame.

And again... BRD had zero DD potential and some very weak heals and status cures with /whm.

GEO gets ridiculously awesome buffs, magic DD, and access to decent clubs for solo stuff.

[Nyarlko]

Yeah, but the difference is, BRD was really nice, but yet it wasn't absolutely required either. Things COULD be done without a bard, just... not as easily.

The cries in this thread, though, make it sound like without GEO you really can't much of anything done.

And that's where the difference is. "Very nice" is one thing... "Absolutely required" is another ballgame.

And again... BRD had zero DD potential and some very weak heals and status cures with /whm.

GEO gets ridiculously awesome buffs, magic DD, and access to decent clubs for solo stuff.

Events with 30+ ppl getting postponed til another day because a bard was missing really did happen, so I'd say we were "required" for most stuff. XD Depending on the group, it could mean a massive difference in time and difficulty depending on whether you had a bard or not. Most of the big stuff were also not really "short" fights like most of what we have now, and not everyone could stick around for the extra time stuff would take without a bard.

I tanked Fafnir (once) as BRD before the enmity nerf to songs, which was a blast to do. XD And back then, I'd help out with SC'ing as BRD sometimes (basically whenever I wasn't pulling or doing alliance+ song duty).. We DO have access to most dagger weapon skills and since most acc came from AllJobs accessories or food at the time, it wasn't that hard to do. We also have access to all REMA daggers and all related WS.

I personally call BS on GEO getting higher club skill (B+, cap@404) than we get dagger (B-, 388), but the diff is not actually that huge overall. If SE had not utterly failed on ROV gearing for BRD, or had at least given us more gearing options for meeting acc reqs, you'd probably have seen more BRDs running around stabbing things in recent years too. XD

[Jakuk]

RDM can't DD in any shape, form or manner and ends up being a very MEH healer.

Well that's not true.

[VoiceMemo]

How do you propose balancing something utterly ludicrous like AoE de/buffs that last 5min+ on a job that can ALSO do magic DD?

RDM can't DD in any shape, form or manner and ends up being a very MEH healer.
BRD can't DD or heal whatsoever.

How does GEO get away with not only having decent-ish melee clubs (some of the same that are available to WHM), also some decent magic DD, but also be the kings of buffs and debuffs all at the same time?

I never checked... does GEO get Hexa Strike, on top of all that? I think they have access to Realmrazer which is basically the same thing.

I disagree, brd native yes cant heal, but with ballads and /whm brd can main heal certain battles.

Also A REMA brd/nin or /dnc can dd, you just need alot of high end gear to do so.

[saevel]

... You never played BRD back in the day, did you? XD We literally were "required" for EVERYTHING. Entire Sky God runs of 1-3x full alliances would be cancelled/postponed if a BRD couldn't be found. I remember being extremely proud that my presence alone resulted in a 10min reduction in our Kirin kills compared to no bard. ^^ (I was one of those crazy party hopper bards that would keep songs up on 30+ others though.)
The problem BRD had until this update was that it was solidly stuck at 75cap power levels. This update appears to have brought a lot of our stuff up to modern standards, so I'm hoping we can finally come back out of the basement. XD

GEO was not likely "broken" until they got updated for the first time. I've seen some old threads that were complaining about how WEAK GEO effects were at launch, so I'm personally convinced that the formula bug was introduced at that time.. It's going to take a bit for the playerbase to adjust to the new environment for sure, but I'm expecting to start seeing more BRD and RDM out and about pretty soon.

Any MMO that has support classes will use the basic/standard group setup: tank, healer, support, enough DDs to fill... The problem we had is that one (glitched) support was overwhelmingly better when compared to the other supports in 99% of available content. (In large part due to said glitch.)

BRD was not required for sky gods .... all they did was ballad ... and more ballad. There wasn't a single "end game" event that BRD was required for, though they were used for melee zergs but melee zergs weren't the only strategy that existed.

The only set of jobs that was "required" was BLMs but that didn't last long as we soon learned how to use melee's.

The problem is that in FFXI "difficulty" is primary determined by monster stats vs player stats. The Monsters Attack, Defense, Evasion, Magic Attack, Magic Defense and so forth compared to the players Attack, Defense, Accuracy, Evasion, Magic Accuracy, and so forth. If players stats are under the monsters then it seems really hard, once the players stats can be put above the monsters it suddenly seems easy. To do this we used a combination of buffs and debuffs, but with the release of Voidwatch SE jacked NM stats to astronomical never before seen levels. Then SoA came out and they went even higher and suddenly content was impossible without someway to lower them by huge amounts. And enter GEO, GEO allows the players to lower the enemy stats or raise their own by incredibly large amounts and unlike RDM and BRD those stat reductions aren't subject to passing a ludicrous resist check. And thus GEO became necessary for every event because it essentially lowers the enemy's level while also raising the players level.

So the first thing SE needs to do is low enemy boss stats across the board by 10~20%. Things need to be brought back into the realm of realistic difficulty instead of this OMFGWTFBBQ that we then must exploit a glitch to overcome. Now SE needs to introduce some ways for all the central support jobs to raise player / lower enemy stats by decent amounts instead of the smidgen that we've been traditionally allowed to. The recent buff to Frazzle and Distract were a decent start but it's not nearly enough to balance out content. The buffs to BRD were nice for melees but they aren't nearly enough considering how OMFGWTFBBQ powerful their offensive stats are.

[Dekusuta]

I'll provide some dissent here. As an Idris geo, the set-ups were quite specific to the point of being really biased. 2 Geos were often needed on some of the end tier mob to guarantee vex/attune; always.

I would argue requiring a geo vex/attune for every fight seemed really weird to me. And it's not like Bards suddenly can do these things. Geos remain the only job that can provide vex/attune
and frailty is not nerfed.


I think they can still tweak the mobs m.eva and /m.acc down more to appease people however. Change is never easy. It should also be made clear that Geo hasn't lost their position in the party, though dual Geos maybe less desirable now, so the job warz stuff that keeps cropping up seems meaningless.
I'm more concerned they make sure people can still easily clear the high end content that they very clearly designed with the bugged Geo magic bubbles in mind but it appears they haven't adjusted the mob values sufficiently to account for the reduction in the geo magic bubble's potency. That to me hasn't been made clear yet.

[Nyarlko]

BRD was not required for sky gods .... all they did was ballad ... and more ballad. There wasn't a single "end game" event that BRD was required for, though they were used for melee zergs but melee zergs weren't the only strategy that existed.

I did Minne/Ballad on pld(s), Minuets/Etudes on melees depending on jobs, Ballads/Etudes on BLMs, Minuet/Prelude on RNGs, etc. It was far, far more than "only ballads". The bards you knew musta been lazy ones. :x I was well known for my headless chicken impression, what with all my party hopping and song spamming and running around to "target" aoe songs. XD


So the first thing SE needs to do is low enemy boss stats across the board by 10~20%. Things need to be brought back into the realm of realistic difficulty instead of this OMFGWTFBBQ that we then must exploit a glitch to overcome. Now SE needs to introduce some ways for all the central support jobs to raise player / lower enemy stats by decent amounts instead of the smidgen that we've been traditionally allowed to. The recent buff to Frazzle and Distract were a decent start but it's not nearly enough to balance out content. The buffs to BRD were nice for melees but they aren't nearly enough considering how OMFGWTFBBQ powerful their offensive stats are.

The lowering across the board thing apparently already happened this month, and from the goofing around that I've done so far on lower-end endgame stuff, it really does have a pretty large impact. The problem that I'm hearing about is that the highest end (clvl140+) stuff is a lot harder now. I'm pretty sure that the cause of this is the linear mob lvl+1 stat formula. Physical accuracy/evasion is relatively easy to test for so it's verifiable that mobs gain effective eva+34 per level over ours (aka: we need acc+34 in order to maintain the same hit rate per level.) So you would need acc+374 to hit a lv130 mob, acc+714 for a lv140, or acc+1054 for a lv150, in comparison to a lv119 of the same family... We were looking at a baseline of ~1820-1890 acc to cap vs a lv150 pre-update (variance due to the "Evasion Bonus" trait,) which is insane. Though I'm sure the baseline has dropped a bit, that doesn't affect the lvl+1 scaling out of reach for the majority of players.

I know that this thread is about magic acc/eva, but it's a serious PITA to test for magic acc/eva and there's no way to actually verify any values, so I'm using the verifiable physical values to illustrate. I am nearly certain that the magic values (and all other stats/attributes) follow the same linear pathing as the physical ones, so it shouldn't be too hard to imagine how easily it can get out of control at the highest end.

The level scaling needs to either be converted to a sliding scale so that lvl+1 gains are lower the larger the gap between player/mob, (which could allow for even higher level targets being possible,) or if that is an impossibility, then lower all defensive derived stats gained per level significantly.

[Smokenttp]

The lowering across the board thing apparently already happened this month, and from the goofing around that I've done so far on lower-end endgame stuff, it really does have a pretty large impact. The problem that I'm hearing about is that the highest end (clvl140+) stuff is a lot harder now. I'm pretty sure that the cause of this is the linear mob lvl+1 stat formula. Physical accuracy/evasion is relatively easy to test for so it's verifiable that mobs gain effective eva+34 per level over ours (aka: we need acc+34 in order to maintain the same hit rate per level.) So you would need acc+374 to hit a lv130 mob, acc+714 for a lv140, or acc+1054 for a lv150, in comparison to a lv119 of the same family... We were looking at a baseline of ~1820-1890 acc to cap vs a lv150 pre-update (variance due to the "Evasion Bonus" trait,) which is insane. Though I'm sure the baseline has dropped a bit, that doesn't affect the lvl+1 scaling out of reach for the majority of players.

I know that this thread is about magic acc/eva, but it's a serious PITA to test for magic acc/eva and there's no way to actually verify any values, so I'm using the verifiable physical values to illustrate. I am nearly certain that the magic values (and all other stats/attributes) follow the same linear pathing as the physical ones, so it shouldn't be too hard to imagine how easily it can get out of control at the highest end.

The level scaling needs to either be converted to a sliding scale so that lvl+1 gains are lower the larger the gap between player/mob, (which could allow for even higher level targets being possible,) or if that is an impossibility, then lower all defensive derived stats gained per level significantly.

pretty much this.At lvl 135+ (some apex parties even aparently took a hit as well) things start to get off hand but at 140+ things become pretty much completely unrealiable, altough they probably tought that frazzle + focus + langour could achive the same effect of the past they forgot one little important detail that is if frazzle gets resisted things become straight impossible anyway, and since we cant verify macc values its pretty hard to gauge whats wrong. they either screwed up geo spells (unlikely but possible) or the macc vs mevasion function has insuficient values on high level mobs. we had an idris geo on kirin and an mugrgleis rdm fully loaded on macc and the said rdm was not able to even land frazle on kirin , even tough it could do it just fine pre update even with geo bubbles down so they probably screwed somewhere.

[OmnysValefor]

I'll provide some dissent here. As an Idris geo, the set-ups were quite specific to the point of being really biased. 2 Geos were often needed on some of the end tier mob to guarantee vex/attune; always.

I would argue requiring a geo vex/attune for every fight seemed really weird to me. And it's not like Bards suddenly can do these things. Geos remain the only job that can provide vex/attune
and frailty is not nerfed.


I think they can still tweak the mobs m.eva and /m.acc down more to appease people however. Change is never easy. It should also be made clear that Geo hasn't lost their position in the party, though dual Geos maybe less desirable now, so the job warz stuff that keeps cropping up seems meaningless.
I'm more concerned they make sure people can still easily clear the high end content that they very clearly designed with the bugged Geo magic bubbles in mind but it appears they haven't adjusted the mob values sufficiently to account for the reduction in the geo magic bubble's potency. That to me hasn't been made clear yet.

Tried to just let my sub run out, but heh, had to reply to this.

I agree completely.

A decently geared Aegis or well-geared RUN (RUN also has to overcome prejudices inspired by people echoing former truths) is required for most content in the game. SE forgot about Ninja (as a tank) but at least the tanking roll has 2.

The Healing role, in serious healing situations requires a WHM especially now that a key protection (vex/attune) has been nerfjusted.

I hate that content has been balanced around two bugs (offensive m.acc, defensive m.eva) for literal years but the balance now is smarter.
* GEO no longer offers the best of almost every kind of buff in the game (of the ones it offers). It's best at some (nothing compares to frailty and malaise, but these have high resource cost in that either will be one of geo's two main bubbles), Little compares to Fury, Haste, and situational acc buffs (since you're already got the GEO there).
* While being merely good at others.

That seems... alright.

PLD and RUN (uninformed people aside), are in a similarly good situation.

Mages aren't terribly imbalanced in non-Death situations.

Most DPSre within a reasonable range of balance, or they're really great at punching things.

I still think some of the old jobs need some mechanic updates, abilities and traits that have been useless for years. PLD for instance isn't nearly as fun to play as RUN, nor does it offer as much utility.

But wth, I don't even play anymore.

[Nyarlko]

pretty much this.At lvl 135+ (some apex parties even aparently took a hit as well) things start to get off hand but at 140+ things become pretty much completely unrealiable, altough they probably tought that frazzle + focus + langour could achive the same effect of the past they forgot one little important detail that is if frazzle gets resisted things become straight impossible anyway, and since we cant verify macc values its pretty hard to gauge whats wrong. they either screwed up geo spells (unlikely but possible) or the macc vs mevasion function has insuficient values on high level mobs. we had an idris geo on kirin and an mugrgleis rdm fully loaded on macc and the said rdm was not able to even land frazle on kirin , even tough it could do it just fine pre update even with geo bubbles down so they probably screwed somewhere.

The update this month lowered all (non-HTB) clvl mobs' baseline combat stats, which lowers the baseline derived stats, but if they didn't touch the lvl+1 formula, then (using an imaginary baseline phys_acc number since I haven't found out the new numbers yet) this is basically moving our acc reqs for 119+ content from "874+34*(mob_lvl-119)" to "800+34*(mob_lvl-119)".. The vast bulk of the requirement is not in the baseline, but in the level adjustment portion.. A whopping acc+1054 for a lv150 mob in fact, and that portion does not appear to have been touched at all. :/ Values are most likely different for macc (mob meva), but same system means that it's not hard at all for mob defenses to quickly get out of reach for most of us.

If the devs are not willing to adjust the lvl+1 value at this time, then perhaps a good stopgap would be to change the "Accuracy ++" vorseal to cover all forms of accuracy (melee/ranged/magic) instead of only melee. I know I gain at least 150acc just by zoning in and most of the complaints so far have been focused on Escha/Reisenjima 140+ NMs, so it might be enough to bridge the gap.

[Domille]

It's time to bump the iGarbage level.

[Nyarlko]

It's time to bump the iGarbage level.

I think that ship has already sailed. ><;; Can you imagine the backlash if all current gear was obsoleted by default? Given that the devs seem to be pretty adamant about not raising ilvl past 119, and given that just about everything below 140 appears to be quite doable by the majority, I just don't see the devs going this route. They are just not going to see any actual "need" to do so.
Honestly, I would be happy if ilvl cap was raised as long as current ilvl119 gear was overhauled and given appropriate higher ilvls. Especially weapons would need this treatment, as I believe there are 3x distinct "tiers" of 119 weapon skill+ currently, and similar stratification within armor slots.

There's also the issue of trivializing lower tier content associated with raising effective player level, which is something I'm pretty sure the dev team would prefer to avoid.. Right now I'd say the simpler, effective, and easier to implement solution would be addressing the mob lvl+1 values since it is likely to be equal or easier to do than the macc/meva adjustment we just got.

[Domille]

I think it'd be damn hilarious. all 119 gear becomes complete trash at a new 129 bump. That'd be the single new most epic day ever on ffxi.

That being said, they have to come up with SOMETHING.

As it stands, people are already resorting to SMN burns. That's instant game over.

Either revert geo changes (never happen). Lower all mob stats even further (might happen). or bump iGarbage, it's been what 5 years now? (needs to happen). You don't get to START an ilvl trend at the END of a game, and bump it one single time.

Leaving things as they stand, does -not- work.

[Nyarlko]

Just shy of 4yrs, and bumping ilvl is equivalent to raising the level cap. Not arguing against doing so, but I just can't see the devs doing so.