Recently returned but having trouble getting into post 99 content, please advise ... [Archive]

alazar14

12-30-2016, 03:39 PM

Hi all,

I recently returned from a semi long hiatus. I currently have a lvl 99 RDM, DRG, MNK, and WAR.

I know two people who still play the game regularly on a different server, and they had mentioned the game has changed a lot. Things apparently are much more casual than before, and gearing up / getting through content has become more doable.

I have found some of this to be true, but at times many of the same barriers that FFXI had before -- barriers that largely influenced the degree to which I enjoyed this game -- still remain.

Earlier today I was in Juno trying to figure out how to gear up my characters given where I am, and where the game is currently (I have completed Rhapsodies and have my RDM at Reforged AF+1). I shouted for 30 min and spoke with both my LSs but received no response to my question regarding how to obtain some kind of upgrade to the gear I currently have. After about an hour someone responded and told me to do this new content called Ambuscade.

So I decided to get my only decently geared job (RDM) and shout for groups. I come to find out that RDM doesn't appear to be used in Ambuscade groups -- hello job exclusion my old friend -- and that I likely will need to level a WHM or PLD in order to participate.

One of the reasons why this game has been very difficult for me to get into, and why I've only ever been in "end game" once since starting the game in 2004 is the fact that I simply haven't been able to just play the jobs I want to play. It seems like every time I come back (with the rare exception when Monk was actually a boss in Abyssea content) I have had a very hard time getting the jobs I want to play to participate in post 99 content.

I've been in school since I originally began playing this game, and usually only have the winter break and maybe a month in the summer to play. I started this game in my senior year of high school in 2004, and am now in my 2nd year of doctoral studies. I don't really have ample time to level new jobs at this point, and I was hoping that I could take advantage of my winter break to gear up and enjoy playing some of my favorite jobs (i.e., RDM / DRG / MNK).

At this point my question is, will I be able to participate / join groups to do some of the post 99 content with the jobs I currently have leveled (assuming all except RDM have sparks gear at best)?

Other than leveling new jobs, is there anything you all would recommend I do to increase my chances of participating in post 99 content? Would making my own parties (as I did during the bad old "drg hate" days of 04) yield more positive results in terms of Ambuscade groups, or would most people likely not want to play with the classes I currently have at 99?

Lastly, is this game perhaps just not something that I should be playing at this point? For those of you who have played FFXIV, would I be better off giving that a try if I'm looking for a more straightforward Final Fantasy MMO experience that I can jump in and out of during winter and summer breaks?

Thanks!

Zeargi

12-31-2016, 12:03 AM

The more things change, the more they stay the same. You can do Ambuscade alone if no one lets you join, but I feel there are a few other things that can be done for gear. Sinister Reign, Skirmish, and Delve have decent gear, but aren't really "On par" with stuff they released recently. But I'm sure if you can get a good MB set for your RDM you should be about to join most things that require magical DMG. Starting next week is an EXP Campaign so you should be able to level another job quickly if you so choose to. (WHM, BLM, SCH, PLD, RUN, GEO seem to be the flavors of the game currently) With all the extra trusts they have for Login and coming up next week, you'll be in a good spot with those. There's also a DRG in my LS that goes to events and does extremely well damage wise, of course he is a Master DRG. I've been soloing stuff on my SMN, with a handful of things I join in my LS (Though I have a tread lately to screw those up).

But most of the things require gear, but when I went through, I followed the flow pattern as it came out:

1.) Sparks Gear
2.) Reforged AF
3.) Skirmish
4.) Reforged Relic
5.) Delve/Alluvion Skirmish
6.) Unity
7.) Reforged Emp 109
8.) Sinister Reign
9.) Vagary
10.) Reforges Emp 119
11.) Escha NMs
12.) Ambuscade
13.) Omen

Some of these will require other players to get things done, but you can get good stuff that can be extremely useful. Omen should be your goal, even though it's not really my favorite right now. But reforging Relic, and Emp should be another goal, because I feel they are also going to get reforged to +2 and +3 like the AF.

Others might offer better advice, but I just do the stepping stones for the most part.

As for 14, I started it and then left and found myself struggling to catch up again when I came back. Very similar to FFXI, but their Cross Server party finder does come in handy when you're looking for help and can't find it.

Shiyo

12-31-2016, 02:37 AM

Sparks gear is completely unusuable garbage, get rid of it asap.

RDM is very hard to gear up because this months ambu doesn't give gear for it and psycloth gear is awful for mages, the only usable mage gear doesn't exist until merlinc which is at the end of the tier of progression you'll be doing inside of reisen. (you missed jhakri ambu month so you're screwed for months, nice design SE)

You'll want to get despair set from t1 escha-zitah(https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Category:Escha#Escha_-_Zi.27Tah_4) for melee RDM and eventually try to work on augmented taeon gear with triple attack from alluvion skirmish or some carmine abjuration set from escha-ruan(https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Carmine_Armor_Set), most notably the pants. I recommend either RDM/NIN or RDM/WAR(fencer bonus + berserk). /WAR might be your best option simply because RDM's attack is obscenely low without outside support and savage blade hits hard with fencer(even only rank1 fencer) Melee is RDM's best role atm and should be the preferred/proper way to play in a lot of situations, melee while doing supporty things like haste2/refresh/dia3/distract/addle and only casting para on darkness magic bursts and curing in emergency situations ONLY.

Most of these enemies aren't very hard to kill but I don't think you can solo them as RDM even with trusts, I suggest making friends or finding 1 or 2 other people(you shouldn't need more than 2 more people) to tackle these NMs:

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Angrboda :
This guy is kind of tricky. He's basically a DPS race so keep up barfire and stoneskin and try zerg him down asap once he gets sub 50%, and especially sub 50%. He starts to spam a high AOE fire based attack called volcanic wrath which gives you max HP down, and at 10%(I think, or 5%) he'll use it and it will have a VERY VERY long cast time(I think there's some mechanic of casting water nukes reduces the damage of this, but I have no idea) and it'll basically 1 shot all trusts + nearly 1 shot all players, so he has to die asap after using this because he'll continue to spam it. He also has crystal rain which is single target fire damage and hurts bad, as well as heavy strike which he will combo with mighty strikes(100% crit rate) and can 1 shot un-prepared players.

Personally I did him as DRK/SAM + WHM/SCH and 4 trusts(koru, seltheus, shantotto, ulmnia) and with arcane circle(4:30 uptime on 5 minute cooldown) and arcane crest plus keeping up seigan + thirdeye for heavy strikes the entire time and swapping to PDT gear for heavy strikes and MDT gear for crytal weapon/volcanic wrath he was easily(but stressfully) doable in full reforged af+1 DRK gear. I would save arcane crest for sub 50%(when he starts to use volcanic wrath) and arcane circle around 80% or so, making his attacks very managably cured by a WHM player. I did not try him with apururu or yoran so I'm not sure if they're capable of healing it. The body this guy drops is worth augmenting to max ASAP.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Ferrodon

I have no idea how to fight this guy and had a vajra thief 1 shot him for me. He wasn't very scary I suggest trying to dispel his boiling blood and zerging him down asap, perhaps try to spam water nukes backline with a staff to remove his stacks and proc him or MB a high tier water nuke on him.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Gestalt

This guy is super annoying. Even with a vajra thief 2 shotting him he was annoying, I suggest subbing rune,keeping up stoneskin and running away whenever he chainspells(80/60/40/20% hp) and spam curing the tank until it fades. Turn away when he cast dread spikes IMMEDIATELY or you will die asap and watch out for curse + impact combo which can 1 shot the tank, especially during chainspell. The easiest way to kill him is to zerg him down, notice the trend? These mobs are super scary but killing them asap is the best tool for dealing with them, imo.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Cunnast
Fought this guy with a vajra thief as well, but he wasn't that bad. He can randomly conal 1 shot with breaths and has an AOE paralyze. Might want to RDM/SCH for this guy and help paralyna. Not too bad to deal with if your tank has a decent amount of -DT or -breath damage taken gear and rune subjob. Keep the tank topped off and keep paralyna off anyone in range of it. Simple.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Revetaur
Haven't fought. Good luck. I assume using a trust to tank him while you zerg him down might be the best option.

For caster gear you'll want vanya legs(until you can get psycloth legs and augment them), psycloth body, psycloth gloves and reforge +1 RDM hat as well as relic +1 boots(kinda expensive). I'm not sure what a better option for boots are. Get 2x shiva rings for nuking and leviathan/aquasoul/Mediator's Ring for enfeebles. Try to get this staff asap as it's the best you'll be using for a WHILE:
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Marin_Staff it drops from https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Vedrfolnir which is pretty annoying to fight TBH:

He spams stormwind(wind damage?) a bunch of times then ends the combo with a deadly dive which is 1.2k+ damage + stun on a single target(conal?) but the most annoying part is he casts feather barrier which gives him OBSCENE evasion and you won't be removing this without a blue mage or bard with light dispel. I personally don't even know if their dispels work because I didn't try but normal dispel/darkness dispel is completely unreliable. Shield/full break causes his feather barrier to have "no effect" but since he's wind based it's unreliable to stick the debuff for any extended amount of time. He is also basically immune to distract since it's wind based. A RDM/BLM using elemental seal to remove feather barrier is a reliable way to remove feather barrier but it has a long cooldown and he might recast it again after. Weapon skills seem to proc him and freeze him but it's random and not reliable. Best way to deal with him is just to zerg him down asap and I duod him NIN + WAR with trusts.

If you have problems getting marin staff from him use your https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Kupon_W-SRW to pick up https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Lehbrailg_%2B2.

Cure potency gear is easy, buy a Nefer Kalasiris off the AH for cheap, get a roundel earring off AH(can try to find someone selling these via /yell) and a https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Mendi._Earring off https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Tangata_Manu which is a joke of a boss that doesn't really do anything scary and proccing it with Blizzard nukes/magic bursts seems to disable the scary status effects on it's harpy TP moves. I personally tanked it on DRK/SAM and duod it with a WHM + trusts. Strong to light skillchains, use darkness. Then pick up a Chatoyant Staff off the AH as well as a Tempered Cape, a sirona's ring and Ephedra Ring. You can also use your reforge AF1+1 pants for cure potency(BIS).

This should be enough gear to get you started. Don't listen to people who say you can't play X job, and need to be Y. Play what you like and what you want. RDM isn't the best job in the game but it's WORKABLE and PLAYABLE and if you put in the effort(get good at melee rdm!) it's a very useful job to have and is very helpful to have around. Play the strengths of RDM and know when to melee and when to /SCH backline.

edit:
I also forgot. Make sure you to do ambuscade(can do it with a few pieces of despair on normal/easy for volume 2) to get your JSE cape every month. Get a redmage cape asap and put 20 acc/20 attk, 10% double attack and 20 DEX on it.

Deedlitchan

12-31-2016, 03:09 AM

I suggest you remove the colons from those monster links.

alazar14

12-31-2016, 03:37 AM

Sparks gear is completely unusuable garbage, get rid of it asap.

RDM is very hard to gear up because this months ambu doesn't give gear for it and psycloth gear is awful for mages, the only usable mage gear doesn't exist until merlinc which is at the end of the tier of progression you'll be doing inside of reisen. (you missed jhakri ambu month so you're screwed for months, nice design SE)

You'll want to get despair set from t1 escha-zitah(https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Category:Escha#Escha_-_Zi.27Tah_4) for melee RDM and eventually try to work on augmented taeon gear with triple attack from alluvion skirmish or some carmine abjuration set from escha-ruan(https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Carmine_Armor_Set), most notably the pants. I recommend either RDM/NIN or RDM/WAR(fencer bonus + berserk). /WAR might be your best option simply because RDM's attack is obscenely low without outside support and savage blade hits hard with fencer(even only rank1 fencer) Melee is RDM's best role atm and should be the preferred/proper way to play in a lot of situations, melee while doing supporty things like haste2/refresh/dia3/distract/addle and only casting para on darkness magic bursts and curing in emergency situations ONLY.

Most of these enemies aren't very hard to kill but I don't think you can solo them as RDM even with trusts, I suggest making friends or finding 1 or 2 other people(you shouldn't need more than 2 more people) to tackle these NMs:

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Angrboda:
This guy is kind of tricky. He's basically a DPS race so keep up barfire and stoneskin and try zerg him down asap once he gets sub 50%, and especially sub 50%. He starts to spam a high AOE fire based attack called volcanic wrath which gives you max HP down, and at 10%(I think, or 5%) he'll use it and it will have a VERY VERY long cast time(I think there's some mechanic of casting water nukes reduces the damage of this, but I have no idea) and it'll basically 1 shot all trusts + nearly 1 shot all players, so he has to die asap after using this because he'll continue to spam it. He also has crystal rain which is single target fire damage and hurts bad, as well as heavy strike which he will combo with mighty strikes(100% crit rate) and can 1 shot un-prepared players.

Personally I did him as DRK/SAM + WHM/SCH and 4 trusts(koru, seltheus, shantotto, ulmnia) and with arcane circle(4:30 uptime on 5 minute cooldown) and arcane crest plus keeping up seigan + thirdeye for heavy strikes the entire time and swapping to PDT gear for heavy strikes and MDT gear for crytal weapon/volcanic wrath he was easily(but stressfully) doable in full reforged af+1 DRK gear. I would save arcane crest for sub 50%(when he starts to use volcanic wrath) and arcane circle around 80% or so, making his attacks very managably cured by a WHM player. I did not try him with apururu or yoran so I'm not sure if they're capable of healing it. The body this guy drops is worth augmenting to max ASAP.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Ferrodon:

I have no idea how to fight this guy and had a vajra thief 1 shot him for me. He wasn't very scary I suggest trying to dispel his boiling blood and zerging him down asap, perhaps try to spam water nukes backline with a staff to remove his stacks and proc him or MB a high tier water nuke on him.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Gestalt:

This guy is super annoying. Even with a vajra thief 2 shotting him he was annoying, I suggest subbing rune,keeping up stoneskin and running away whenever he chainspells(80/60/40/20% hp) and spam curing the tank until it fades. Turn away when he cast dread spikes IMMEDIATELY or you will die asap and watch out for curse + impact combo which can 1 shot the tank, especially during chainspell. The easiest way to kill him is to zerg him down, notice the trend? These mobs are super scary but killing them asap is the best tool for dealing with them, imo.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Cunnast:
Fought this guy with a vajra thief as well, but he wasn't that bad. He can randomly conal 1 shot with breaths and has an AOE paralyze. Might want to RDM/SCH for this guy and help paralyna. Not too bad to deal with if your tank has a decent amount of -DT or -breath damage taken gear and rune subjob. Keep the tank topped off and keep paralyna off anyone in range of it. Simple.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Revetaur:
Haven't fought. Good luck. I assume using a trust to tank him while you zerg him down might be the best option.

For caster gear you'll want vanya legs(until you can get psycloth legs and augment them), psycloth body, psycloth gloves and reforge +1 RDM hat as well as relic +1 boots(kinda expensive). I'm not sure what a better option for boots are. Get 2x shiva rings for nuking and leviathan/aquasoul/Mediator's Ring for enfeebles. Try to get this staff asap as it's the best you'll be using for a WHILE:
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Marin_Staff it drops from https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Vedrfolnir which is pretty annoying to fight TBH:

He spams stormwind(wind damage?) a bunch of times then ends the combo with a deadly dive which is 1.2k+ damage + stun on a single target(conal?) but the most annoying part is he casts feather barrier which gives him OBSCENE evasion and you won't be removing this without a blue mage or bard with light dispel. I personally don't even know if their dispels work because I didn't try but normal dispel/darkness dispel is completely unreliable. Shield/full break causes his feather barrier to have "no effect" but since he's wind based it's unreliable to stick the debuff for any extended amount of time. He is also basically immune to distract since it's wind based. A RDM/BLM using elemental seal to remove feather barrier is a reliable way to remove feather barrier but it has a long cooldown and he might recast it again after. Weapon skills seem to proc him and freeze him but it's random and not reliable. Best way to deal with him is just to zerg him down asap and I duod him NIN + WAR with trusts.

If you have problems getting marin staff from him use your https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Kupon_W-SRW to pick up https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Lehbrailg_%2B2.

Cure potency gear is easy, buy a Nefer Kalasiris off the AH for cheap, get a roundel earring off AH(can try to find someone selling these via /yell) and a https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Mendi._Earring off https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Tangata_Manu which is a joke of a boss that doesn't really do anything scary and proccing it with Blizzard nukes/magic bursts seems to disable the scary status effects on it's harpy TP moves. I personally tanked it on DRK/SAM and duod it with a WHM + trusts. Strong to light skillchains, use darkness. Then pick up a Chatoyant Staff off the AH as well as a Tempered Cape, a sirona's ring and Ephedra Ring. You can also use your reforge AF1+1 pants for cure potency(BIS).

This should be enough gear to get you started. Don't listen to people who say you can't play X job, and need to be Y. Play what you like and what you want. RDM isn't the best job in the game but it's WORKABLE and PLAYABLE and if you put in the effort(get good at melee rdm!) it's a very useful job to have and is very helpful to have around. Play the strengths of RDM and know when to melee and when to /SCH backline.

Hi there,

Thank you very much for such a fantastic and informative reply! I am just wondering at this point what the order of things I should do is. Is the order you put these at the order I Should aim to go by doing them? So first dispair set from Zi Tah, then the abjuration set, etc.?

Second, I'm not entirely sure what augmenting is ... is that basically turning it to +1?

I think giving you a bit more detail regarding my gear would help as well.

I have the full +1 RDM atrophy set right now (no gear to swap with just this set and sparks) as well as the Niburu Blade and some pre Rhapsodies accessories.

That RDM is currently my best geared job. Of the above things you mentioned, can I do the despair or abjuration set solo with NPCs? I don't really know anyone that would be willing to spend a lot of time helping me get this gear if needed. I have a rl friend who is playing alongside me but he is only a lvl 80 DRK currently.

Thanks so much!

Olor

12-31-2016, 04:11 AM

Help your RL friend get up to level 99, you'll have a way easier time duoing stuff than soloing it, just gotta find the right set up with trusts that work for you both - but trust DPS sucks so having a RL player to help you with DPS is going to be really key to getting anything done. Try to get your friend up ASAP - power level them in escha zitah if you can and they are willing - and then do some escha NMs during the trust 50% +MP +HP campaign as that will increase your chances. Even if your friend has awful gear it's going to be better than a trust DPS.

You both should check out if there are any unity NMs that drop half decent accessories and stuff for your characters - there is a good accuracy back that isn't too hard to get for example. Also ambuscade has job specific capes that can be augmented with whatever you need, so it's worth doing even if that month's gear set isn't something you need ASAP.

Also be sure to do alluvion skirmish there is really good stuff there and the upcoming campaign will make it pretty easy to get pick ups because the stones are worth quite a bit still. Worth using your copper vouchers to get obsidian fragments or w/e and buying the pops and offering free pops while doing the book. I've found it not too hard to find people to join up if you pay for the pop set. If you're on book your gear doesn't matter. My advice is if things start to look even a tiny bit bad KEY - better to stop a run too soon and still get stuff then to lose everything. In my experience that will ruin a run the fastest... hopefully you have a lot of vouchers cause running book on [A] skirmish will eat your fragments up real quick, but it's a great way to get some good gear drops - especially since most people who will join your run will probably have the base gear and be looking for stones. Though Taeon (which you need) tends to be the most popular (because it's the best of the sets).

Really though if you can work with a friend you're going to have a way easier time. Unfortunately pick ups are the least friendly for returning folks that I've ever seen them - and LSes don't tend to invest in members really. So, you're best bet is to try to find other folks in the same situation and work together to advance. Good luck!

Shiyo

12-31-2016, 06:49 AM

alazar14

12-31-2016, 09:02 AM

You should be getting escha-zitah gear first thing, then work on carmine gear and taeon.
I do not think you can solo the NM's, you will need at least 1 and perhaps 2 other people.
I'm not sure what you're offhanding but this is a good offhand: https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Demersal_Degen
It drops from this guy:
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Bakunawa
He is pretty annoying to deal with and can actually 1 shot even paladin tanks because his aura makes you incapable of blocking until you light skillchain and remove it. I personally tanked him and had a vajra thief 2 shot him with TA + WS and SA + WS doing 100% of it's HP. It's probably mandatory that you want some type of tank job for him(preferably paladin) because him and his adds attack so fast and can attack many times in a row(8?) as well as cross-strike for 500-1k+ damage. A decently geared(ochain + 35%+ PDT) paladin and some DD job should be able to duo him with trusts reliably. Barwater + stoneskin + blink will help you survive maelstrom(it's aoe attack). Make sure the paladin pops it so the adds + boss aggros him over you and to not stay by the paladin on pop because it always opens with maelstrom. Maelstrom causes it to resummon adds so its best to ignore them.

Augmenting is going to norg, talking to nolan and trading him the armor you want to augment(one at a time) then trading him x number of eschalixirs to fully augment it.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Nolan

edit:
I also forgot. Make sure you to do ambuscade(can do it with a few pieces of despair on normal/easy for volume 2) to get your JSE cape every month. Get a redmage cape asap and put 20 acc/20 attk, 10% double attack and 20 DEX on it.

Your goal after getting some despair and a JSE cape with nice augments should be to try to get JP(job points). RDM needs JP REALLY REALLY badly. 100 JP gives you t5 nukes which will help tremendously for dealing damage via nukes, 550 gives you distract3 and addle2(as well as frazzle3) which will help your supporting and 1200 gives you temper3 + which makes you really good at meleeing as well as refresh3 which is alright but not that great.

Hi there,

Thanks for all of the great info! I have a much more clear idea of what I need to be doing with my RDM now. The only issue I can see coming up is perhaps finding folks to help me do the NMs in Escha-Zitah. Do you have any tips for getting folks to help out with this?

I would love to ask you just a few more things as well :)

1. I notice that I have a lot of trouble killing even basic mobs in Reisenjima, is that due to lack of gear, zone buffs, or both?

2. Zone buffs can be obtained only after killing the NMs in the zone correct?

3. Should I even be stepping foot inside Reisenjima given where my gear is at this time?

4. Is the RDM JSE cape available in Ambuscade right now, or is that something that is cyclical and just has to come up for availability again?

5. Don't I need to kill NMs in order to get the points (currency) I need to buy the Eschalixers+2? - I know the reason I didn't upgrade my sword is because I lack those items, and I can't get those without killing mobs in those high lvl zones (i.e., Reisenjima) and I can't kill those mobs without the gear .... lol. It all goes back to me needing people and not being able to really do it alone huh? >.<

Shiyo

12-31-2016, 09:52 AM

1:
Lack of gear, 100% accuracy I'm guessing. I can kill reisen mobs in 2 weapon skills.
2:
Vorseals can be obtained from a lot of stuff. I don't know if you know how they work(I didn't at first either!) but once you UNLOCK it with silt you get the buff AT ALL TIMES(needs to be refreshed every hour by zoning out of escha/reisen and back in).
Here's a list of how to obtain all of them:
https://www.bg-wiki.com/index.php?title=Category:Escha&redirect=no#Vorseals

3:
You should not be doing reisen at all. Once you get 1k accuracy you can comfortably do the normal enemies(and might have problems with ascended mobs if you get links so buy molifier when grinding if you can't take on the ascended mobs but they're worth killing for money).

4:
Cape is available 24/7 but you can buy one cape PER JOB a month and fully augment two a month so you should at least get 500 hallmarks this month to get a cape.

5:
Buy the eschalixir +2's or farm escha t1 NMs for NQ/+1's as well as gear.

I have no idea how to find people to help you. Talk to the linkshell NPC in adoulin or /yell looking for a social linkshell or something. I made a friend who's helped me a lot and the way I did it was talking to them after buying an item from them, just be nice and social to people? People are pretty friendly and help out a lot in this game(unless you're on asura).

Diavolo

12-31-2016, 11:29 AM

People are pretty friendly and help out a lot in this game(unless you're on asura).

Which Asura player peed in your Fruit Loops? I'd wager you'll have a far easier time finding help on Asura than any other server, unless your first language happens to be Japanese.

Jin_Uzuki

12-31-2016, 01:09 PM

I can confirm what Shiyo is saying I migrated to Asura recently and it's full blow war here, literally people fighting on the street never helping each other.

(This is sarcasm)

Shiyo

01-02-2017, 06:20 AM

Elexia

01-02-2017, 07:04 AM

Diavolo

01-02-2017, 07:07 AM

Here's an example of an actual shout on Asura right now:
T2 Hydra REMA Blu x2 PLD WHM «Can I have it?» 1st «Staff» (R)

It means the first staff drop is reserved(lol).

I've literally, not in my entire life of playing FFXI since 2003, seen a shout like this on any server I've played on. This is how people shout for things in WOW.

You need to tone down the hyperbole because while I agree with some of what you're saying, the extent to which you go to make your points is downright exaggeration. That type of shout isn't exactly a new thing, they have been around in FFXI for years, even on the least populated servers like Cerberus of which I was on from 2004 to 2016, but the way the game has changed has made them far more prevalent (re: making the game "more accessible"). They happen more on Asura than other servers just by virtue of there being a far more active, English speaking player base there. Personally I find reserving an item while shouting for help to be counterproductive, but who am I to tell someone how to play the game? It's like the people who shout for a "power level" for X amount of millions of gil. I do what I can to convince a few of them to better take advantage of their trusts and EXP rings, but for everyone I help there are probably 20 or more that figure paying someone 1-5M to do it for them is the way to go. Their loss. As a friend so succinctly put it for me a couple of decades ago, the masses are dumbasses. I know people who are in "end game" linkshells, acting as mercenaries and making hundreds of millions of gil off the laziness of others, but even they are incapable of doing something as simple as going from 1 to 99 without needing help from friends or multiple accounts. Even the elite have their weaknesses, so take advantage of what you can because they'll surely take advantage of you given the opportunity.

Jin_Uzuki

01-02-2017, 07:18 AM

Jakuk

01-02-2017, 07:32 AM

Nyarlko

01-03-2017, 02:09 AM

Firstly, you're lying.

Secondly, people reserved items all the time because they're creating the shout group. It was most prevalent in Dynamis and Nyzul shout groups. So if you played since 2003 and "have never seen that before" you must have been playing on the Atomos test server somehow.

Actually, that was indeed a real shout on Asura. The player shouting happens to be in my ls and was getting clowned by the rest of us for excessively high expectations in fact. XD
(Rarely get to not stand against Shiyo, so it's kinda nice to be able to for once. lol)

---------------------------

The formatting of that shout is something that has been around since 75cap days on all servers though. ^^;; YOYD/YPYD have always been "a thing". Absolutely nothing new to FFXI to attempt to make it as concise as possible (and mix in some autotrans) in order to attempt to cross the language divide w/ Japanese players. Reservations on gear make sense when there is a pricey and/or difficult/annoying to obtain pop item. I'd say the EX Reisenjima T2 pops would qualify as annoying and difficult to obtain, so where's the problem?

Shiyo

01-03-2017, 04:14 AM

YOYD is not "help me then give me the drop I want" it's "everyone gets loot from their pop" and CANNOT be compared to that shout.

Jin_Uzuki

01-03-2017, 04:30 AM

YOYD is not "help me then give me the drop I want" it's "everyone gets loot from their pop" and CANNOT be compared to that shout.

But it is? Do you understand what pops Bashmu? You need a Gramk-Droog's Grand Coffer, it's an EX item and it requires farming Incursion. I never heard of anyone not changing their loot rules if someone else wanted to pop an NM a that NM requires hard to get pop or expensive pops. I certainly wouldn't pop an Escha T3 or a Reisenjima T2 with my pops with other people loot rules unless it's an established FL party.

People who join these shouts do it either because the have their own pop, don't have it but take their luck for a second drop, need something that it's FL or just want clear.

Why are you being so hateful? Who from Asura hurt you? Was it a group of GEO?

detlef

01-03-2017, 06:05 AM

Jin_Uzuki

01-03-2017, 06:44 AM

Well we're all kinda making assumptions here. We don't know if the shouter is allowing people to bring their own pops for example. It sure sounds to me like the shouter is providing pops or is making the group farm pops and is then claiming the first Grio as a reward for organizing the group.

Uh but anyway can we at least agree that Asura sounds great for some kinds of people but may not be ideal for everybody, even a returning player?

I'm not sure why you are talking about Asura like it's a living entity. There are tons of players on it with different people and ideas. It's no different with any other server other than the fact that the population is larger and therefor there are more stuff running at the same time.

And no, a new player is going to have easier time on populated servers with new players running around and doing old, catch up content than it's servers with 300-400 players.

detlef

01-03-2017, 10:14 AM

I'm not sure why you are talking about Asura like it's a living entity. There are tons of players on it with different people and ideas. It's no different with any other server other than the fact that the population is larger and therefor there are more stuff running at the same time.

And no, a new player is going to have easier time on populated servers with new players running around and doing old, catch up content than it's servers with 300-400 players.I don't get how I'm talking about Asura like it's a living entity. I mean, I've reread my post several times and I don't get it. Also I don't see how you can say absolutely that going to that server is the best solution for any and all returning players without allowing for exceptions. You're very defensive for some reason.

Jin_Uzuki

01-03-2017, 10:21 AM

I don't get how I'm talking about Asura like it's a living entity. I mean, I've reread my post several times and I don't get it. Also I don't see how you can say absolutely that going to that server is the best solution for any and all returning players without allowing for exceptions. You're very defensive for some reason.

What a returning player has to gain from a server being low populated and nearly desert?

detlef

01-03-2017, 10:32 AM

What a returning player has to gain from a server being low populated and nearly desert?If I were a returning player I would personally prefer a quieter server. That may just be me but I'm sure there are players out there who would feel the same way. I mean, like I said Asura sounds great but why can't we say that some people might prefer a different server?

Also I'm still not sure how I described Asura as a living entity.

Jin_Uzuki

01-03-2017, 10:57 AM

If I were a returning player I would personally prefer a quieter server. That may just be me but I'm sure there are players out there who would feel the same way. I mean, like I said Asura sounds great but why can't we say that some people might prefer a different server?

What are actually the advantages of "quieter" server, tho? For a new/returning player that actually needs to do content. How do less players and less people doing content and filling the AH with stuff help them? Or about less people to CP?

You can't solo Vagary and Delve as a new/returning player, or even Escha.

Also I'm still not sure how I described Asura as a living entity.

"Uh but anyway can we at least agree that Asura sounds great for some kinds of people but may not be ideal for everybody, even a returning player?"

Well, maybe not as a living entity, but as somehow it works differently for most servers?

Asura is like any other server. The only difference is that you got 1000 people walking around instead of 400. 1200 people aren't even much in MMORPG terms.

Shiyo

01-03-2017, 10:58 AM

1200 people when doing anything in this game and another person/party exists trying to do that content as well makes it a living nightmare is bad.

This game is designed in a way that you never want to see another person around if you can help it. You want the entire dynamis zone to yourself, you want to not have to wait in ambu lines, you want to not have to wait in lines to do BC's(especially high tier battlefield ones aka the new ones), you want to not have to compete with people while leveling, you want to not have to compete with people at JP camps, you want to not have to compete with people being a bluemage at escha-zitah, etc etc.

Jin_Uzuki

01-03-2017, 11:01 AM

1200 people when doing anything in this game and another person/party exists trying to do that content as well makes it a living nightmare is bad.

Sounds like you should play single player games. I heard FFXII is lovely and very similar to this. The remastered is coming out this years, go preorder it now!

Diavolo

01-03-2017, 12:38 PM

If I were a returning player I would personally prefer a quieter server.

Why? There is literally no advantage to being on a quieter server unless your idea of a great environment is one that goes against the core concept of an MMORPG.

detlef

01-03-2017, 12:54 PM

Why? There is literally no advantage to being on a quieter server unless your idea of a great environment is one that goes against the core concept of an MMORPG.Then... That's okay? Is a player allowed to prefer what they prefer?

Diavolo

01-03-2017, 01:59 PM

1200 people when doing anything in this game and another person/party exists trying to do that content as well makes it a living nightmare is bad.

If you think running into someone, anyone, that is attempting to do the same content you're tackling is the definition of a nightmare then what compels you to log into any MMORPG, let alone one that still has a $13/month subscription fee?

I don't know what the capacity of the servers is/was, but I do vividly remember seeing 8,000+ online during the WoTG days and we didn't just survive, we thrived. If we could pull it off with that many people back during the 75 cap days I'm sure you would be just fine with 1,200 today.

This game is designed in a way that you never want to see another person around if you can help it. You want the entire dynamis zone to yourself, you want to not have to wait in ambu lines, you want to not have to wait in lines to do BC's(especially high tier battlefield ones aka the new ones), you want to not have to compete with people while leveling, you want to not have to compete with people at JP camps, you want to not have to compete with people being a bluemage at escha-zitah, etc etc.

You have it all wrong. The game was/is designed to accommodate thousands. It's only certain players that feel the same way you do and, dare I say, they need to expand their view of the world, both literally and figuratively. If the first CP/JP camp is taken then use that as an opportunity to discover new camps, same with BCNMs/HTBFs. You have a point with Ambuscade, but that's clearly just poor game design as even the quietest of servers face wait times, sometimes longer than the ones on Asura as was pointed out on a FFXIAH thread a few months back (10 min waits on Sylph, I think it was, vs 2 mins on Asura one Friday night).

I remember how those arguing against server merges last year were saying how Asura was overcrowded, claiming Escha/Reis was always congested to the point where finding mobs to CP on or ??? pop locations was difficult, but Cerberus was a veritable ghost town unless you were online during JP prime time hours, so after some hesitation and lots of reluctance I transferred over. I am not exaggerating when I say I have not once in my 6+ months on Asura had a problem finding CP locations or ???'s to pop NMs and only a handful of times have I had to wait for HTBF entry, less than 2 mins each time. I waited more for Ambuscade entry on Cerberus than I did on Asura. Make of that what you will, but the proof is in the pudding and I've been swimming in that pudding long enough to know there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for me to ever want to go back to a smaller server. I don't see how a new/returning player would benefit from it either.

Diavolo

01-03-2017, 02:06 PM

Then... That's okay? Is a player allowed to prefer what they prefer?

I didn't say it wasn't, but I am curious as to why you prefer it.

Now I'm asking myself why so many people shy away from discussion on message boards. :x

Jin_Uzuki

01-03-2017, 02:31 PM

You have it all wrong. The game was/is designed to accommodate thousands. It's only certain players that feel the same way you do and, dare I say, they need to expand their view of the world, both literally and figuratively. If the first CP/JP camp is taken then use that as an opportunity to discover new camps, same with BCNMs/HTBFs. You have a point with Ambuscade, but that's clearly just poor game design as even the quietest of servers face wait times, sometimes longer than the ones on Asura as was pointed out on a FFXIAH thread a few months back (10 min waits on Sylph, I think it was, vs 2 mins on Asura one Friday night).

It's something I noticed too, I think it's because on more populated servers people are less directed toward one content. When you have enough people to do a lot of content, you tend to spread out, when you don't have a lot of people (especially casual players) just settle for the most accessible content. You can't do x because you are new and don't know how to work, you can't do y because there aren't enough people online, so you just settled for the most accessible things everyone is doing (Ambu).

detlef

01-03-2017, 03:16 PM

I didn't say it wasn't, but I am curious as to why you prefer it.

Now I'm asking myself why so many people shy away from discussion on message boards. :xMaybe you weren't but the other guy was. Sometimes you wanna keep to yourself a lot of the time, even in a multi-player game. I've responded as such in other similar threads on merges and server jumping. The MMO aspect goes beyond grouping together to do content, after all. I like not having to compete for Tenzen (although JPs here actually do Levi the most). I like not having to compete for Ambuscade entry KI mobs. #2 in Reisenjima is always open. I've only seen #9 completely occupied once, briefly. I'm sure you or Jin will tell me I'm selfish, but I like Valefor and accept it as it is.

But seriously, it must be an unpopular opinion because pro-Asura people like to jump all over me whenever I dare to even mention that it might not be for everyone. It's funny to me because all I said is that Asura sounds great for some people but may not be the ideal server for everybody, even a returning player. I didn't think that it was a controversial statement.

Jin_Uzuki

01-03-2017, 03:37 PM

Shiyo

01-03-2017, 03:42 PM

As someone who has recently returned from a 7 year break and leveled with someone BRAND NEW TO THE GAME I highly recommend a low pop server like Valefor.

detlef

01-03-2017, 03:50 PM

Probably because you idea of Asura is utterly bizarre, downright funny. There are 1,200 players on Asura on average. Not 9 millions.

Recomanding a returning player a dead server is a dead sentence in most castes. A returning player won't care about people who multibox/solo Tenzen, because he can't do Tenzen at all. He also can't do Vagary because there are no shouts for it and the event is intimidating to anyone who is new. Same for Delve. He needs to ask people, but a returning player won't know anybody. Even if he makes fast friends, no one is going to be always online and available to do stuff in a population of 300, where most people are already settled in comfortable niches. There are literally 0 advantages for a returning player or even a new one in a "quiet" server.You know, I didn't recommend a dead server. You realize that right? All things being equal, I would point someone towards Asura and wish them the best of luck. Again, what I said was that Asura sounds great for some people but may not be ideal for everybody. If English isn't your first language I apologize, but I'm not sure how I can make it any clearer.

Jin_Uzuki

01-03-2017, 03:58 PM

You know, I didn't recommend a dead server. You realize that right? All things being equal, I would point someone towards Asura and wish them the best of luck. Again, what I said was that Asura sounds great for some people but may not be ideal for everybody. If English isn't your first language I apologize, but I'm not sure how I can make it any clearer.

No, I'm just telling you your idea of Asura as this server literally exploding with players to the point you can't farm 10 ambu mobs or you need to wait 10 minutes for Tenzen is completely wrong.

I don't think you know how MMORPG population work. 1000 players are literally lol.

Diavolo

01-03-2017, 05:35 PM

Sometimes you wanna keep to yourself a lot of the time, even in a multi-player game. I've responded as such in other similar threads on merges and server jumping. The MMO aspect goes beyond grouping together to do content, after all. I like not having to compete for Tenzen (although JPs here actually do Levi the most). I like not having to compete for Ambuscade entry KI mobs. #2 in Reisenjima is always open. I've only seen #9 completely occupied once, briefly. I'm sure you or Jin will tell me I'm selfish, but I like Valefor and accept it as it is.

There's nothing selfish about wanting to keep to yourself, I actually do a whole lot of that myself. Like Jin mentioned, I believe too many people on the quieter servers have this false image of Asura in their heads based on comments I've seen on the various message boards. I can solo night and day, all week long without having to worry about the wait times or overcrowding situations despite what you may have heard. You can also multibox wherever you please if that's more your thing. I can capture videos of notorious multiboxers on Asura doing all the things players on other servers are afraid they wouldn't be able to do here if it needs to come to that.

I just spent the night getting a few support jobs to 50 on an alt account, knocked out about 20 Escha Zi'Tah NMs for vorseals/gear and killed Quetzalcoatl 15 times for silt, acc+ vorseals, stones and some beads solo/dual boxed. I couldn't have done all that by staying on my ghost town of a server nor would I have the benefit of the active economy or the option of jumping into PUGs should the desire arise.

But seriously, it must be an unpopular opinion because pro-Asura people like to jump all over me whenever I dare to even mention that it might not be for everyone. It's funny to me because all I said is that Asura sounds great for some people but may not be the ideal server for everybody, even a returning player. I didn't think that it was a controversial statement.

It is for everyone, though. You're capable of doing everything you can do on your smaller server with all the benefits that come from being on the largest. The only real hurdle is convincing your friends/LS mates to make the move along with you and swallowing the transfer fee.

detlef

01-03-2017, 06:36 PM

There's nothing selfish about wanting to keep to yourself, I actually do a whole lot of that myself. Like Jin mentioned, I believe too many people on the quieter servers have this false image of Asura in their heads based on comments I've seen on the various message boards. I can solo night and day, all week long without having to worry about the wait times or overcrowding situations despite what you may have heard. You can also multibox wherever you please if that's more your thing. I can capture videos of notorious multiboxers on Asura doing all the things players on other servers are afraid they wouldn't be able to do here if it needs to come to that.

I just spent the night getting a few support jobs to 50 on an alt account, knocked out about 20 Escha Zi'Tah NMs for vorseals/gear and killed Quetzalcoatl 15 times for silt, acc+ vorseals, stones and some beads solo/dual boxed. I couldn't have done all that by staying on my ghost town of a server nor would I have the benefit of the active economy or the option of jumping into PUGs should the desire arise.Hey you know what? Fair enough. Your Domain Invasion farming situation sounds lovely. That's definitely a downside to Valefor, as we lose blessings in Ru'aun and Zi'tah fairly regularly.

It is for everyone, though. You're capable of doing everything you can do on your smaller server with all the benefits that come from being on the largest. The only real hurdle is convincing your friends/LS mates to make the move along with you and swallowing the transfer fee.I'm not convinced that there are no downsides and that Asura is ideal for everyone. However, I think I see where you're coming from a little more clearly now.

Elexia

01-03-2017, 10:45 PM

I didn't say it wasn't, but I am curious as to why you prefer it.

Now I'm asking myself why so many people shy away from discussion on message boards. :x

I'll say it again, there's something about Valefor's water lol.

Obysuca

01-04-2017, 02:05 AM

As someone who has recently returned from a 7 year break and leveled with someone BRAND NEW TO THE GAME I highly recommend a low pop server like Valefor.

I mean, for leveling and getting merits/cp its fine, but once you get to needing gear from escha and reisenjima, trusts just aren't going to cut it and on a low population server, theres a higher chance of never getting enough people for some of the harder stuff, due to everyone either already having all of it, not being interested, or only doing things with their ls.

That's just been my experience from returning (since about the end of RoV, with a free time here and there) in November. Need things like Nibiru blade for blu, some abjuration gear for other jobs and herculean, but the most I can get for people is about 2-3, which is ok for certain t1s and maybe a t2 in zi'tah, but on a lower population server, I know I'm never going to get the people needed for t3s or anything without throwing all my gil at them.

Afania

01-09-2017, 05:01 PM

Why? There is literally no advantage to being on a quieter server unless your idea of a great environment is one that goes against the core concept of an MMORPG.

This "my preference > yours" is getting old lol. Is it really so hard to understand that some people simply prefer to play with mules/certain friends with mules and not having to read none sense yells?

Playing with mules/close friends isn't "against the core concept of an MMORPG". You still play with people, just that there are less people.

For people with mules and close friends with mules and capable of getting things done, smaller server has it's advantage. You can't have the best of both worlds, the problem is that some people that only see the advantage of bigger server just has to play the "my preference > yours" card.

Diavolo

01-10-2017, 01:57 AM

For people with mules and close friends with mules and capable of getting things done, smaller server has it's advantage. You can't have the best of both worlds,

http://photos.gleuch.com/data/assets/kanye_imma_bookmarklet.png

You can have the best of both worlds. Some of the more accomplished players on Asura do just as you describe, playing only with close friends and their mules.

I hope you don't think everyone on Asura is a casual player with only one account to their name and is out to sour your experience. You're comfortable where you are and see no reason to uproot yourself, which is fair enough, but when it comes to MMORPGs bigger is better. Personally, if I just wanted to play with a couple of friends and ignore the rest of the world I wouldn't be logging in to FFXI. The bigger the community the more interesting the game becomes.

Afania

01-10-2017, 06:14 AM

You can have the best of both worlds.

No you can't, lol. Also just FYI, I completely agree with you that unless you play 4~6+ character the benefit of bigger server generally outweight the benefit of smaller server, and the disadvantage of bigger server MAY become more tolerable for some individual if you consider faster character progression, IMO at least. But saying smaller server has zero unique benefit is absolutely biased, as biased as you think I claim every player on Asura are casual, which was never the case.

I'm just going to list a few advantages that only exist on smaller/quiet servers only.

1) There are less competition for pop spot. And yes it has been debated several times, and yes you're probably not going to wait for 1hr just to pop on Asura. But still, if you think smaller server has equal competition and wait time as bigger server then you're just as biased. The wait time may not be earth shattering long like you claimed, but they're definitely not equal.

2) Most of the smaller server has more dominate JP community and vice versa, I don't know why, maybe because English speakers kept moving to Asura but not JPs. So if you're kind of player that enjoy joining JP LS, playing with Jps, joining JP shouts, other server has a better mix between JP and NA players.

3) There are more multi box rate on smaller servers due to people are forced to play 6+ characters, and somethings are easier to accomplish with multi boxers. My fastest melee WoC kill speed is 2 min 10 sec, with 2 people playing 4+ character that buff and drop, and a few more dual boxers. I don't think I can ever accomplish same kill speed without that many mules unless I pay people to come just to buff us. Now your argument is "you can do the same on Asura". The problem is that once you play on a server with more people, the incentive to 4 to 6 box gets a lot smaller, and it's much harder to find 4+ boxers for it. The 4~6+ box player rate on smaller servers are so much higher that as long as you can get them to pt with you, you get an army of mules to improve pt efficiency.

4) There are less yell dramas in town. You know, my favorite entertainment at work is to connect to FFXIAH, switch tab to Asura, then watch hours of yell about politics, LS drama, people, troll, jokes, job balance from different people and their mules and eat popcorn. Now while some people thinks it's fun/tolerable/not a big deal, that isn't the case for everyone. Some people simply prefer a cleaner yell channel when they play the game, instead of having to add troll mule names to blist every time when they play. There were even complaints on Reddit about politic yells.

You see, the issue here is that you're comparing apples to oranges when comparing the benefits of both servers. You obviously have your preference, but you use your own preference as some sort of universal facts and expect other players to have the same preference as you. Some people simply doesn't care about faster character progression even though most people do, some people don't find playing with lots of people fun even though you do. Some people find constant yell drama extremely frustrating to read and killed all the fun for them when they log on, even though it may be tolerable(or even entertaining) for others. Some people enjoy a server with 70% JP 30% NA instead of 70% NA 30% JP, some don't.

The point is that, just because you prefer more people, able to tolerate wait time, prefer faster character progression, able to tolerate yell drama, and never play with JP, doesn't mean others have the same preference as you. And all you've been doing in every server debate is trying to force your own personal preference on others, then hinted others are ignorant/not playing MMO/biased against Asura if they disagree with you.

Diavolo

01-10-2017, 08:59 AM

I'm just going to list a few advantages that only exist on smaller/quiet servers only.

And I'm going to tell you why those advantages don't amount to a whole lot:

1) There are less competition for pop spot.

It often takes less time to find an alternate pop spot than it does to wait on multiboxed characters to get located and setup.

2) Most of the smaller server has more dominate JP community and vice versa, I don't know why, maybe because English speakers kept moving to Asura but not JPs. So if you're kind of player that enjoy joining JP LS, playing with Jps, joining JP shouts, other server has a better mix between JP and NA players.

If you enjoy playing with Japanese players chances are you're happy wherever you currently are as they are more team oriented than we are thanks to their culture, but I'd make the same argument and say you're best off on Odin, just as English speakers are best off on Asura.

3) There are more multi box rate on smaller servers due to people are forced to play 6+ characters, and somethings are easier to accomplish with multi boxers.

This is an odd point to make as I'm not sure what angle you're using to promote it. Yes, there are plenty of multiboxers on Asura doing all sorts of ridiculous things from UNM, Escha/Reis, HTBFs and going to bed with 5-6 accounts CPing while they sleep. If you play 6+ characters on Ragnarok you'll have no problem doing it on Asura.

4) There are less yell dramas in town. You know, my favorite entertainment at work is to connect to FFXIAH, switch tab to Asura, then watch hours of yell about politics, LS drama, people, troll, jokes, job balance from different people and their mules and eat popcorn. Now while some people thinks it's fun/tolerable/not a big deal, that isn't the case for everyone. Some people simply prefer a cleaner yell channel when they play the game, instead of having to add troll mule names to blist every time when they play. There were even complaints on Reddit about politic yells.

This is amusing because you strike it down as a negative point while admitting you find it entertaining. Can't have it both ways! /blist only needs to be entered once, set it and forget it.

The point is that, just because you prefer more people, able to tolerate wait time, prefer faster character progression, able to tolerate yell drama, and never play with JP, doesn't mean others have the same preference as you. And all you've been doing in every server debate is trying to force your own personal preference on others, then hinted others are ignorant/not playing MMO/biased against Asura if they disagree with you.

You came to some rather odd conclusions.

Playing with a worldwide community, in particular Japanese players, has been one of this game's strengths and some of my best memories comes from my time playing with/against them. I have very low tolerance for wait times. Character progression is a non-issue here unless you're conceding my point (bigger is better). This isn't apples and oranges, it's game servers and, well, game servers. It isn't about pushing preferences down anyone's throat as I'm not telling you how to play. I'm just telling you that you can do whatever you're doing on Ragnarok on Asura, too.

Jin_Uzuki

01-10-2017, 09:06 AM

I really want to know how people survived in 2006 if they think 400 players are a lot and enough.

Afania

01-10-2017, 09:44 AM

@Diavolo, you know, my point isn't to debate which server is better. My point is to point out you're pushing your preference on others without ever realizing. Right now you think I'm attacking Asura, which isn't the case. I'm not even talking about nor defending for MY personal preference which you seems to misunderstood(I prefer faster character progression most of the time, just like you)I'm just pointing out your behaviors(not respecting other's decision) in these discussions, repeatly.

This is amusing because you strike it down as a negative point while admitting you find it entertaining. Can't have it both ways! /blist only needs to be entered once, set it and forget it.

Or the better choice(for some people) is to enter 0 times.

Playing with a worldwide community, in particular Japanese players, has been one of this game's strengths and some of my best memories comes from my time playing with/against them. I have very low tolerance for wait times. Character progression is a non-issue here unless you're conceding my point (bigger is better). This isn't apples and oranges, it's game servers and, well, game servers. It isn't about pushing preferences down anyone's throat as I'm not telling you how to play. I'm just telling you that you can do whatever you're doing on Ragnarok on Asura, too.

Do whatever content you want, more likely yes. Have the same playing experience, no. You can't possibly expect to have same MMORPG playing experience with different people, LS, server, activity, social connections, economy. You simply just don't. Ragnarok is very different from Odin, Asura is very different from Bahamut, Fenrir is very different from valefor, phoenix is very different from siren. The game server and playing experience is so much more than just numbers of people online. This isn't a "Asura has 1200 people, so it's better than every other servers with 300 people because mathematically 1200>300" sort of deal. Even if the entire server of Fenrir, or Valefor, or Ragnarok, or Phoenix NA players move to Asura and those people play with same groups of people from their original servers, the playing experience is still very different due to different social hierarchy and how community/groups interact with each other.

One example is someone that I know of, did very well on a smaller server due to having certain job/gear that's rare and useful in endgame community. This gave him a higher social status in endgame community and allows him to get harder things done more easily. On asura he doesn't have nearly as much social influence due to more competitors in the job market that can replace him.

If you consider the social hierarchy and how people interact with each other instead of just looking at the server numbers, you'd know that MMO playing experience is ALOT more than just server numbers.

If you enjoy playing with Japanese players chances are you're happy wherever you currently are as they are more team oriented than we are thanks to their culture, but I'd make the same argument and say you're best off on Odin, just as English speakers are best off on Asura.

Again, your pov about MMO completely ignored the unique culture, history, social hierarchy of each group in the server. You probably made the Odin suggestion based on the fact that Odin has higher JP number, but a lot of times how well a player could do is more complex than just numbers.

For example, a player that's well connected to top tier/elite JP community on X server and get the advantage of it(aka: Able to get server first aeonic clears, clear master trials etc) may not be able to do so well on Y server without the connection, even if Y server is bigger.(Not saying I'm such a person, but such cases exists all the time)

This isn't apples and oranges, it's game servers and, well, game servers.

But it is. How surprising.

I know one person that have account active and stay subbed since launch, and that person never do any endgame content, just have the character afk in starting zone/city and wonder around.

You'd be surprised that people actually play the game for very reason different from you, isn't it. Some people simply just don't value faster character progression nor number of people as much as you do.

What if the person just HAVE FUN with clean yell channel, and DON'T HAVE FUN with more yells?
What if that person just HAVE FUN with less people walking around, and DON'T HAVE FUN with more people?
What if that person just HAVE FUN reading JP in yell instead of English?
What if that person just DON'T HAVE FUN entering names to blist?

There could be 300 million different reasons why someone prefer a low pop server, and the reasons are all very different from your preference that you could never accept nor understand. You know, I can actually list a lot more small server benefits than the above 4. Regardless server choice it's 100% personal preference, apples and oranges. You repeatly, use "faster progression" and "more people" or even "this is MMO!" to sell your point, without ever realizing that some people simply just don't have fun with faster progression nor play with more people. Then you start chains of personal attacks and made tons of assumptions about whoever disagree with you, that does nothing except pissing others off for having different opinion about playing the game from you.

Anyways, I'm done with all these "My preference > yours" and "I'm right you're wrong" debate.

Diavolo

01-10-2017, 12:03 PM

you start chains of personal attacks and made tons of assumptions about whoever disagree with you

I'm at a loss for words. Did I just step into Bizarro World?

Afania

01-10-2017, 01:09 PM

I'm at a loss for words. Did I just step into Bizarro World?

I guess I'm preaching to the choir as much as you do.

Vashkoda

01-10-2017, 04:07 PM

Thanks for all of the great info! I have a much more clear idea of what I need to be doing with my RDM now. The only issue I can see coming up is perhaps finding folks to help me do the NMs in Escha-Zitah. Do you have any tips for getting folks to help out with this? <

I am surprised that you have 2 ls's and yet come here to the forums to ask general questions about how to get caught up. Are they of no help to you at all? If so, perhaps try to make friends elsewhere. It's not necessarily about the server you're on; even the small servers have social ls's with friendly players who are more than capable of low-manning some of those NMs and letting you lot drops that are otherwise left to rot. They may not advertise themselves, so you might need to find them through word of mouth (or just straight up ask someone politely for help, and see if they offer to befriend you).

I really want to know how people survived in 2006 if they think 400 players are a lot and enough. In 2006, people still spent a significant amount of game time leveling. Back then, it was to your advantage to have as many players as possible seeking invites, to quickly build your exp/merit party. The range of player experience also meant that a great majority weren't bothering with endgame material. Now leveling up to 99 takes a few hours at most, and the servers are top-heavy with fully leveled players who have nothing to do *but* endgame. Given that most of the "endgame" events of 2006 can now be solo'ed, there simply isn't enough of that material for a large player population. And the more recent endgame events of course have been programmed to discourage you (or flat out prevent you) from bringing more than 6 players. Regardless of just how much you might feel the effect of being on a large vs small server in terms of competition for entering instanced events or for farming limited mobs/triggers, your basic problem lies in actually finding 5 other players to do those events with you. Whether that's easier on a larger or smaller server is debatable.

Jin_Uzuki

01-10-2017, 04:34 PM

In 2006, people still spent a significant amount of game time leveling.

You are right, and pretty much everywhere you went leveling there was competition, to the point people actually needed to discuss camping spots. Not only that, but every time you went NM hunting you had competition. Also Sky, even 2 parties doing sky could run into huge problems. Coffers/chests hunting? Huuuge competition. Crafting was also far much more competitive given that even if you level slowly you still had to deal with like... 10k+ players. Oh yeah, people had run schedule for Dyna.

In fact, the game in 2006 was far much competitive than now due to 1) Much more people around running stuff 2) Far less spots to do stuff 3) Lockdown and general difficulty to set up things meant people weren't spread in 360 directions like they are these days

Now please I want to hear about how you handled zoning into Aht Urhgan and finding 1000 ppl running around doing stuff. What about zoning into Crawler Nest and Garlaige cittadel and finding 2 parties exping any time? Or going zoning into Giddeus and finding 7+ people camping Hoo Mjuu the Torrent?

In fact, the game got much more less competitive with time. Compare Escha to Sky, escha actually allows several people to run stuff in parallel. Sure, there are more people running endgame but 1) Not everyone is running escha at the same time 2) 1000 people are actually very little in MMOPRG. You have people from Asura LITERALLY telling you that "competition" is not an issue and people still think Asura is populated like 2006 Crawler Nest. It's honestly kind of hilarious, I wonder what imagine people have of more "populated" servers in the mind. (especially given that populated servers don't even have 1/10 of their server population in 2005 or so)

Back then, it was to your advantage to have as many players as possible seeking invites, to quickly build your exp/merit party.

As opposed to now? Last time I checked you want 6 people to CP and even for T2+ (Even some T1) most people want full party. Avatars too.

Whether that's easier on a larger or smaller server is debatable.

No, it's not, what the hell? How is easier to find people to run stuff if there are LESS people online?

"Woah, there is no one online, all my friend are AFK I can't rely on shouts, but somehow it's easier to get stuff done!"

Afania

01-10-2017, 04:44 PM

In 2006, people still spent a significant amount of game time leveling. Back then, it was to your advantage to have as many players as possible seeking invites, to quickly build your exp/merit party. The range of player experience also meant that a great majority weren't bothering with endgame material. Now leveling up to 99 takes a few hours at most, and the servers are top-heavy with fully leveled players who have nothing to do *but* endgame. Given that most of the "endgame" events of 2006 can now be solo'ed, there simply isn't enough of that material for a large player population. And the more recent endgame events of course have been programmed to discourage you (or flat out prevent you) from bringing more than 6 players. Regardless of just how much you might feel the effect of being on a large vs small server in terms of competition for entering instanced events or for farming limited mobs/triggers, your basic problem lies in actually finding 5 other players to do those events with you. Whether that's easier on a larger or smaller server is debatable.

In general, player progress is still much faster on bigger server unless you play 6+ characters and write scripts for them proficiently. But saying bigger server has same or less competition in escha as smaller server is just false info. I don't mind people promoting Asura because it's more active. But providing false info shouldn't be encouraged.

My point is, I'm encouraging for objective, accurate info. Not exaggerated info that's clearly false or misleading. Whether someone prefers bigger or smaller server is 100% personal preference, and none of anyone's business.

It often takes less time to find an alternate pop spot than it does to wait on multiboxed characters to get located and setup.

I don't know how you multi box tbh. Last time I checked, running to #1 ??? in Ruann find it full, go back to #1 again and warp, click #2 and find full, click next warp takes more than 1 min. Running to #2 ??? in Reisen, find it full, run back to #2 or warp ring then go to #4 ??? takes longer than 3 min for sure. If you play with real people instead of mules I can promise you it'll take longer than 10 min most of the time. No efficient multi boxer takes more than a min to zone their characters. All the statement about competitions are being made and exaggerated to an extreme point, that idk what to say anymore.

And yes, multi boxed characters runs and setup faster than real players who often afk, got lost, forgot tribs, aggro mobs, what a surprise.

Afania

01-10-2017, 04:46 PM

No, it's not, what the hell? How is easier to find people to run stuff if there are LESS people online?

"Woah, there is no one online, all my friend are AFK I can't rely on shouts, but somehow it's easier to get stuff done!"

I just spent pages to explain. Connections that only exists on certain servers, mules. Also this is kinda depend on content things. You simply don't shout for melee WoC nor master trials. You're speaking from a complete PUG point of view.

Also just to provide some correct information, you don't need 6 people for T2+. 3 is enough for everything up to T3, Yakshi is doable with 3, I wouldn't be surprised if it's doable with 2. Anything easier than yakshi is doable with 3 or less, which is almost all of the T1~T3 escha NM that I can think of.

In fact, the game got much more less competitive with time. Compare Escha to Sky, escha actually allows several people to run stuff in parallel.

Not if you use certain strategy. #2 in reisen and #1 in ruann is often preferred for certain NM. You can probably* still win without those pop spot, but those slot still gains advantage that other ??? doesn't have.

Also some ??? in reisen and ruann is massive aggro fest, which increases the time taken considerably because one person is guarantee to aggro things.

Once again, saying escha content can support multiple party on the same time without suffering from certain disadvantage is just false info. Objectively speaking, it can't.

Jin_Uzuki

01-10-2017, 05:13 PM

I just spent pages to explain. Connections that only exists on certain servers, mules. Also this is kinda depend on content things. You simply don't shout for melee WoC nor master trials. You're speaking from a complete PUG point of view.

Connections exist in every server. Mules too. LS of people banding together exist on every servers as well people making friendships with people and getting non-LS connections with them. They have existed for years and will exist until the end of this game forever.

The only difference is that you lose the ability to do stuff if you "connections" are offline and afk and you are completely at loss if you are a returning/new player.

Also just to provide some correct information, you don't need 6 people for T2+. 3 is enough for everything up to T3, Yakshi is doable with 3, I wouldn't be surprised if it's doable with 2. Anything easier than yakshi is doable with 3 or less, which is almost all of the T1~T3 escha NM that I can think of.

No I did not. You missed "most people". Most people aren't 2100/2100 JP <insert job> that can solo/duo T3. I did T3. Don't try to be coy with me.

Not if you use certain strategy. #2 in reisen and #1 in ruann is often preferred for certain NM. You can probably* still win without those pop spot, but those slot still gains advantage that other ??? doesn't have.

Also some ??? in reisen and ruann is massive aggro fest, which increases the time taken considerably because one person is guarantee to aggro things.

Once again, saying escha content can support multiple party on the same time without suffering from certain disadvantage is just false info. Objectively speaking, it can't.

Funny you mention #1 in Ruann, that the actual spot where you can get agroed, isn't it. #2 on reisenjima too I think? Most people use #9.

What are these "advantages" anyway?

Still want to know how you handled FFXI in 2006 were there was competition everywhere. I mean, you can't handle picking a different ??? in escha what did you do when you had to discuss exping spots that were less favorable? I'm genuinely curious now.

Afania

01-10-2017, 05:28 PM

Connections exist in every server. Mules too. LS of people banding together exist on every servers as well people making friendships with people and getting non-LS connections with them. They have existed for years and will exist until the end of this game forever.

The only difference is that you lose the ability to do stuff if you "connections" are offline and afk and you are completely at loss if you are a returning/new player.

The problem is, again, besides one person nobody else in this entire chains of discussion is trying to sell their server. Besides that person nobody is saying new/returning player should NOT go to Asura.

You guys are trying to sell Asura to new/returning players, I got it. But why are you also trying to convince everyone else with LS/friends/connections on their home to leave their LS/friends for Asura and cut off their connections? That just makes no sense to me. It seems to me that you're just trying to justify your choice, when nobody bashes your choice to begin with.

Also your idea of connection is obviously different from mine. My idea of connection involves people that meets certain qualifications(certain job/gear/owns certain number of mules/high level of trusts and intimacy etc), it's not just anyone. Asura and Odin is currently top 2 server in terms of population, if I'm going to try and replicate that 2 min melee woc/100% win rate again, I wouldn't be able to pull it off on Asura nor Odin just because I don't have access to these people, even though both servers are the biggest NA servers. People that meets the job/gear/prebuff mule qualification wouldn't help a stranger like me. I can go out and make 300 friends and join multiple LSs on those servers, that doesn't mean I can get the access to people to pull it off. It simply can only be done with very, very specific people/groups, because of certain social restrictions.

Long story short, when it comes to the definition of connections, it is not the number that matters, but individual.

Telling people to leave their LS/friends for Asura(that's what some people have been doing in this discussion) is just cutting off connections, which is against my original point.

Funny you mention #1 in Ruann, that the actual spot where you can get agroed, isn't it. #2 on reisenjima too I think? Most people use #9.

What are these "advantages" anyway?

Elevation and kiting space.

Still want to know how you handled FFXI in 2006 were there was competition everywhere. I mean, you can't handle picking a different ??? in escha what did you do when you had to discuss exping spots that were less favorable? I'm genuinely curious now.

There's absolutely no point to compare exping in 2006 with endgame in 2017. The time is different, situations are different, trust/mule tool access are different, contents are different.

And even if someone prefer a 400 people low pop server at that time, they wouldn't have the choice in 2006. Now you're basically just arguing for the sake of winning the argument by playing the 2006 card.

Again, you want to play with real people, I got it. But why must you guys repeatly argue with those who doesn't?

detlef

01-10-2017, 06:36 PM

#2 Reisenjima is a really uniquely useful pop location as stated.

Also, nobody is saying Valefor is better than Asura or anything like that. Rather, there are legitimate reasons to prefer a server like Valefor for some people. Emphasis on some people. Not all people, some. Again, not all people. Some.

Diavolo

01-10-2017, 06:57 PM

Jin_Uzuki

01-10-2017, 07:06 PM

You guys are trying to sell Asura to new/returning players, I got it. But why are you also trying to convince everyone else with LS/friends/connections on their home to leave their LS/friends for Asura and cut off their connections?

No, not really. I can't tell you how play MMORPG, and certainly not how to spend your money.

I'm just telling you that you ideas of what is possible on bigger servers are wrong and you can literally do everything you do on a 300 ppl server on a 1000 ppl server because 1000 people is very low for a MMORPG. That's all.

There's absolutely no point to compare exping in 2006 with endgame in 2017. The time is different, situations are different, trust/mule tool access are different, contents are different.

You are right. 2006 was much worse for competition.

And yet people managed. What a mystery!

Afania

01-11-2017, 12:25 AM

Afania, you're so far out there right now that it's amazing. You seem to be reading things that just aren't there.

Asura's the logical choice for new/returning players, there's not much of an argument to be made against it. There's more to do because there are more people to do it all with. No one's telling you to leave your LS/friends/intimate "connections" or whatever you want to call them. As I said, you (and whoever you play with) could do everything you're doing on Ragnarok on Asura, too, if you wanted, of course. A common misconception that people have in these types of threads is that Asura is overcrowded and unwelcoming (i.e. "I wait 10 mins for Ambu on Sylph so you must wait 30+ mins on Asura") which couldn't be further from the truth.

If it didn't present such a technical hurdle for the skeleton crew then merging all the servers together would make a whole lot of sense right now. End the game in the same spirit as it began, where "thousands of players will unite" and "experience a living, breathing, persistent world that exists 24/7 whether you're in it or not," as the FFXI promotional video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kysvxJkJn-Y) so succinctly put it. If I had a time machine and went back to 2004 to warn myself about how this game would change in its final years the younger me would probably slap me upside the head and call me a terrible liar. Avoiding social exposure used to be a trait of the stereotypical nerd/gamer and they'd use online games as a way of coping. Now we can't even do that anymore because nothing's allowed to get in the way of our multiboxing euphoria. Everything needs to be streamlined now, including the social experience. I mean, hell, we're using the 30 seconds it might take to warp from one Eschan portal to another as a reason to avoid joining a much larger population, so imagine the hassle of interacting with a stranger... In case anyone needs a reminder, we were all that stranger once.

There's only one person(and that person wasn't me) that suggested other server for new and returning player, and even then Asura is only the "logical choice" when you want faster progression.

Some people don't play the game and try for faster progression. I do, you probably do too that's why you're suggesting Asura. But for many, many, many people that I know of, play the game for social purposes. If social is their purpose, then Asura is no longer your so called logical choice.

It is still possible to get things done in other servers too, just slower. But there could be many reason that people prefer other servers.

What I'm trying to say here is that you guys keep making opinion like this:

Why? There is literally no advantage to being on a quieter server unless your idea of a great environment is one that goes against the core concept of an MMORPG.

Some people play on NotAsura because they hate trolls, some people play on NotAsura because they have old friend refuse(or doesn't need to) move, some people play on NotAsura because have groups. And all these are valid reasons. But you are basically hinting all these people are making illogical choices and everyone should move for a better life, if they don't then they misunderstood Asura, which is just come out as cocky, playing as a victim, and not respecting others choice.

Asura's the logical choice for new/returning players, there's not much of an argument to be made against it. There's more to do because there are more people to do it all with. No one's telling you to leave your LS/friends/intimate "connections" or whatever you want to call them. As I said, you (and whoever you play with) could do everything you're doing on Ragnarok on Asura, too, if you wanted, of course. A common misconception that people have in these types of threads is that Asura is overcrowded and unwelcoming (i.e. "I wait 10 mins for Ambu on Sylph so you must wait 30+ mins on Asura") which couldn't be further from the truth.

No one said a thing about Ambuscade though, I only said something about Escha. There isn't one single thread that I claim Ambuscade wait time is 30+ min, I only said Escha competition is definitely less on smaller server.

Unwelcoming or not completely depend on individual, who you meet, and who you play with. You can't claim "X server is welcoming" without considering other people play with different groups.

As I said, you (and whoever you play with) could do everything you're doing on Ragnarok on Asura, too

I can't, reasonably. Those server environments are way too different socially, and I simply can't control those factors even if I want to.

I'm not a multi boxer, but I heavily rely on multi box people with key jobs whenever I theorycraft a new setup for harder stuff and wanted to try it. Some of the things that I've done on Ragnarok, I can't ever replicate on different server even if they have 5000 people.

But that's another story, and irrelevant to this discussion nor the point I'm trying to make.

My point in this entire discussion is that you only used server numbers and character progression speed as a standard state it as an universal fact. But you didn't consider sometimes people play MMO for more than just that.

If anything it's you with the misconception that nobody understands Asura except you, and everyone else who choose NotAsura just don't know well enough.

Afania

01-11-2017, 02:23 AM

Avoiding social exposure used to be a trait of the stereotypical nerd/gamer and they'd use online games as a way of coping. Now we can't even do that anymore because nothing's allowed to get in the way of our multiboxing euphoria. Everything needs to be streamlined now, including the social experience. I mean, hell, we're using the 30 seconds it might take to warp from one Eschan portal to another as a reason to avoid joining a much larger population, so imagine the hassle of interacting with a stranger... In case anyone needs a reminder, we were all that stranger once.

I need more than 30 sec to warp from one point to another at #2, but at this point I'll just stop arguing about it and provide some data from my collection since you kept mentioning social aspect.

From 2015 I've sent out around 20 applications to endgame LSs(that can or have been trying for high lv endgame, not just some people got together for easy T2 T3s) on Asura/Odin/Bismarck/Fenrir/Bahamut/Ragnarok

Out of all the Asura applications, 9 were rejected, 1 were accepted. 10% success rate. The reason of rejection is they're full and only accept X/Y/Z job with X/Y/Z gear, which I don't have, nor want to play.
All my Bismarck app were rejected for the same reason.
All of my Fenrir app were rejected for the same reason.
1 app on Bahamut were accepted.
1 of my app on Odin were accepted, but it's JP. Rest were meh.

Out of all 4 Ragnarok applications, all 4 were accepted. Unlike most of the NotRagnarok apps, none of the LS that I sent out app on Ragnarok ever ask me if I have X/Y/Z job or X/Y/Z gears, I just automatically got a pearl when I asked. Still 100% success rate.

I'm sure one of the Asuran people would pop and tell me "but I have 80%+ success rate on my Asura endgame LS apps" etc. But that becomes "it depends on individual and your connection" sort of things, and one person's experience doesn't apply to everyone.

You see, when people are interacting with each other, it's reallly more than just numbers of people on servers. Just because someone play on a bigger server, doesn't mean they can do better endgame wise. Farming domain evasion, farming gil, do ambuscade, shout for PUG, all these activities 100% favors bigger server like Asura. But for people that seek things that requires endgame connections, it's another story and it depends on who you know.

All of the app that I sent out on Ragnarok, the decision makers are people that I know for many, many, many years and these people in leadership positions knew me well enough that what I can bring to table for their LS is more than just jobs/gears, but the ability to help other members improve, theorycraft a better setup, improve pt efficiency and workflow, and knowledge in FFXI mechanics. You know, something more valuable to an endgame LS than jobs/gears.

All of the app that I've sent out on NotRagnarok servers, most of the decision makers don't know me as a person, so they had to make decisions based on what jobs/gears I have, which was nothing useful to them or highly replaceable, thus much, much, much higher rate of rejections.

And THAT is what i meant by connections. It's people that you know, and people that knows you, and it's more complicated than just "But there's connections on Asura too". Your connections, not mine.

Anyways, I don't want to come out as some sort of Asura rant nor bashing the server as a whole, that isn't my intention. I think the server is great for returning players that's connectionless regardless of servers, and seeks faster character progressions. And I'm very sure that some people out there could accomplish a much higher application success rate on Asura. In fact I know more than a couple of person that does much better endgame wise after they move. It's just that one person's experience can't apply to everyone equally, and there's just no way I'd rate Asura better or worse servers than NotAsura. Apples and Oranges, saying one server is better or worse than another is as none sense as saying one company is better than another, or one country/city is better than another. All opinions.

Tl;dr, All servers are great with their own benefits, okay?

Afania

01-11-2017, 03:15 AM

I'm just telling you that you ideas of what is possible on bigger servers are wrong and you can literally do everything you do on a 300 ppl server on a 1000 ppl server because 1000 people is very low for a MMORPG. That's all.

No you're wrong. Just because you can do everything on a 1000 people server on paper, doesn't mean you can pull it off on practice. I can't just server transfer to a 5000 people server(if they exist) and finish all T4 in a day, I still need to go through the process of sending out app to endgame LSs, begging every leader for a pearl, lv new jobs to fulfill their needs, take time to chat and build connections etc and that is A LOT of time investment. While I can finish all T4s in a day on a 300 people server with LS(s) that I'm already in, gain leadership positions and organize my own endgame runs, use my favorite setup, get 5 extra prebuff mules without having to pay people. I can't do any of these things on any of the NotRagnarok server without heavy time investment just because I don't have the connections to do so. Even if you think I can if I want to/work hard/lv 4+ mules myself, I can't, realistically speaking.

Doing certain stuff is more than just pull people out of a big number pools, it involves many, many, many different factors.

The endgame environment of Asura is just too different from NotAsura. Lower multi box rate, highly competitive job market, less opportunity to gain social influences in endgame scenes(unless you're some kind of superstar player) are some of the Asura traits. Think of it as big city with google/microsoft v.s smaller towns. When you send out a job app to a big company in a big city, you're competing with 400 people wanting the same job and you don't necessary get one. When you send out an app to a small company in your hometown you get the job more easily and gets promotion faster. And there's very little you can do to change that fact. Can you get a job at Microsoft if you work hard? Sure you can! But not everyone can or wants to. Some people may become super successful in big cities, some people just don't and live on streets when they could have at least got a manager job in their hometown, at family owned cornerstore.

My point is, everyone has different circumstances. What works for one person doesn't necessary work for everyone.

detlef

01-11-2017, 04:09 AM

Jin_Uzuki

01-11-2017, 05:03 AM

The endgame environment of Asura is just too different from NotAsura

No, it's not. I played on both a low populated server and a a high populated server. Heck I played on Ragnarok in 2006 when the server was literally exploding with players!

The only difference is that you got 1000 players running around instead of 400. That's all. Which are low. 1000 players are absolutely low in a MMORPG.

(Both servers don't have 400 and 1000 players running around anyway once you start to count anyway because you need to take afk, bazaar, etc that grow as the playerbase grow)

You keep thinking I'm telling you to switch server, but I'm not. I'm telling you if your server had 1000 players literally nothing would change except things so small that they wouldn't be an issue unless you choose to make them so and will require you to ignore the advantages a more rich playerbase bring.

Afania

01-11-2017, 05:27 AM

double post

Afania

01-11-2017, 05:42 AM

No, it's not. I played on both a low populated server and a a high populated server. Heck I played on Ragnarok in 2006 when the server was literally exploding with players!

The only difference is that you got 1000 players running around instead of 400. That's all. Which are low. 1000 players are absolutely low in a MMORPG.

You keep thinking I'm telling you to switch server, but I'm not. I'm telling you if your server had 1000 players literally nothing would change except things so small that they wouldn't be an issue unless you choose to make them so and will require you to ignore the advantages a more rich playerbase bring.

At this point I don't know if you even get my point since we're saying completely different things. I'm talking about endgame(WoC/T4/PW2), not ambuscade, vagary, domain evasion, crafting, WKR htbc, T1~T3. On the other hand you're obviously talking about ambuscade, vagary, domain evasion, crafting, WKR, htbc, T1~T3 but not endgame because you probably don't even do high lv endgame.(If you do then you won't even ask about pop spot advantages as every endgame player knows what they're for)

The only difference is that you got 1000 players running around instead of 400. That's all. Which are low. 1000 players are absolutely low in a MMORPG.

Assuming 10% of playerbase does endgame regardless of server. Using your number of 1000 v.s 400, here's the math.

Assuming Server A has 1000 players, 100 are endgame players that can kill WoC/T4(10% of players are endgame players), I have 10% success rate on big server endgame LS applications, out of all 100 endgame players, I only get to do WoC/T4 with 10 people because 10% of 100=10.

Assuming Server B has 400 players, 40 can kill WoC/T4(10% endgame players), with 100% application success rate, I get to do endgame with 40 people because 100% of 40 is 40.

There, you guys prefer math and numbers, and here is math and numbers. 40 > 10.

The endgame environment of Asura is just too different from NotAsura.

No, it's not. I played on both a low populated server and a a high populated server.

Not very convincing from someone who obviously don't do endgame on a regular basis, nor have fundamental understanding of how top end endgame LS power structure works on various servers. Just because you have "played" on those servers, doesn't mean you're right. Ambuscade/CP pt/T1 to T3 could be all you do on those servers, and you can still pop on the forum and claim you have "played" on all those servers. But you're still wrong.

Diavolo

01-11-2017, 05:46 AM

Diavolo and Jin. You guys are arguing in absolutes. You're not arguing that X is generally better than Y. You're arguing that X is always better than Y with no exceptions. In FFXI and in life, we know that's not the case.

I've already acknowledged that yes, there's a chance that Asura is the best server for a player (or a returning player, as that's what the thread was originally about). But again, is it not possible for a player to prefer a different server?

My argument is that anyone - and all their friends/LS mates if need be - can play the game the same way they're currently playing it if they moved servers. That being true, what purpose does a smaller server retain? Moving to Asura doesn't stop you from doing anything you're currently doing and, on top of that, presents you with new options the smaller servers do not. I use Asura as the standard not because I have friends there (though some did move there before/after and with me) but because, in all likelihood, no other server will come close to matching its English speaking player base before the game shuts down completely and 1,600 simultaneous accounts online is still a far cry from the numbers we used to play with. So, even if you're of the opinion that the game is 2x, 4x, 6x or whatever amount more demanding on the servers as it used to be there is still room to grow. 16 servers in 2017 is just too many. Players who return from a long hiatus often wind up hitting the message boards and asking where to transfer to because their servers are, in their eyes, dead compared to what they remembered. Why does this need to be a thing? Twice before in the game's history it consolidated servers when their numbers went too low for the dev team's liking. Those servers that were underpopulated in March 2010 and May 2011 were all more populated than Asura currently is today. Can we stop acting like 1,600 simultaneous players is too much for a world the size of FFXI's?

Afania's anecdotal evidence of submitting LS applications on multiple servers comes with the obvious downside of being incapable of more thoroughly examining the playing field on his own terms and interacting with players beyond a message board, so is it any surprise that he got rejected by everyone except those he had personal ties to? Of course not. Like I told him earlier in the thread, I don't expect people to uproot themselves and leave their friends behind, but if you were able to get everyone you played with to move with you then you would all be better off on the largest server. It is as simple as that.

If there is something you can do on a smaller server that's impossible to do on the larger ones I'd love to hear it. It might do this discussion some good as the accusations of hurling personal insults and having words stuffed down my throat are starting to get annoying.

Jin_Uzuki

01-11-2017, 05:51 AM

At this point I don't know if you even get my point since we're saying completely different things. I'm talking about endgame(WoC/T4/PW2), not ambuscade, vagary, domain evasion, crafting, WKR htbc, T1~T3.

What kind of bizarre definition of endgame is this? Even if you take out Vagary and Ambu despite the fact they are 99 events, who the hell excludes T1-3? Especially Reisenjima ones.

(If you do then you won't even ask about pop spot advantages as every endgame player knows what they're for)

Or probably because I don't use the restrictive endgame definition as you. No one talks about "endgame" using exclusively WoC and T4. You can do Vir'ava, Maju and Escha T4 at #1 and #9 all the same

Assuming 10% of playerbase does endgame regardless of server. Using your number of 1000 v.s 400, here's the math.

Assuming Server A has 1000 players, 100 are endgame players that can kill WoC/T4(10% of players are endgame players), I have 10% success rate on big server endgame LS applications, out of all 100 endgame players, I only get to do WoC/T4 with 10 people because 10% of 100=10.

Assuming Server B has 400 players, 40 can kill WoC/T4(10% endgame players), with 100% application success rate, I get to do endgame with 40 people because 100% of 40 is 40.

There, you guys prefer math and numbers, and here is math and numbers. 40 > 10.

... what.

Afania

01-11-2017, 06:04 AM

Afania's anecdotal evidence of submitting LS applications on multiple servers comes with the obvious downside of being incapable of more thoroughly examining the playing field on his own terms and interacting with players beyond a message board, so is it any surprise that he got rejected by everyone except those he had personal ties to? Of course not. Like I told him earlier in the thread, I don't expect people to uproot themselves and leave their friends behind, but if you were able to get everyone you played with to move with you then you would all be better off on the largest server. It is as simple as that.

While I agree the rejection rate is most likely because of connection(that's like, literally the entire point I've been making) and possibly the higher competition in the job market, it's not possible to move entire server of NA population from one server to another like you claimed.

Again, you keep saying "just move, everyone move!", but that's not going to happen. In past 2 years, some people have moved, some people don't, and claimed that they will never move because they don't give a damn about progression speed. You keep having this ideal scenario in your head that entire community could just move without a word, but you didn't consider the unique scenario that some people simply just don't move. You also speak strictly from a more general perspective, from a bigger picture, while I speak from an individual pov.

And even if in your most ideal scenario that all the none big 3 server players move to Asura, that's 12 servers of population. 12x300= 3600. That's 3600+ more people adding to Asura's 1200 people, making it 4800+. Even if competition on Asura is tolerable now with 1200 players, it certainly won't be with 4800. In fact I think at that point it'd hurt Asura more than anything. And I certainly, for sure, without doubt, don't want to play on a server with close to 5000 people even if all my connections are around.

Also to people who repeatly play the "but other MMO has more than that" or "but 2006 FFXI has more than that" card. Other MMO has instances, FFXI doesn't. 2006 FFXI has multiple EXP camps accross all lv, 2017 FFXI only has 1 real endgame content which is T4/Kirin, and only 1 (ideal)pop spot for those NM. And yes, people schedule dynamis back then, and you also did dyna on a weekly basis that you aren't losing any dyna runs by scheduling, unlike these days there are multiple small groups spams escha NM daily.

The situations are so different that idk what to say when I read "other MMO" or "2006 FFXI"

Afania

01-11-2017, 06:06 AM

What kind of bizarre definition of endgame is this? Even if you take out Vagary and Ambu despite the fact they are 99 events, who the hell excludes T1-3? Especially Reisenjima ones.

Because some people seeks T4/Kirin/WoC/master trials/PW2 activities, but they don't need T1/T3 at all. So they choose a server that gives them the best chance to do these things. While you pop on the forum and tell people "no your choice is wrong" without considering other people have different goals/preferred content from you, thus unable to make the same choice as you.

You're making a "general" argument, but that argument doesn't apply to everyone on the planet, who has drastically different in game goals from you.

I can do T1~T3 easily regardless of server, so "I need T1/T3" is never the reason why I consider/don't consider a server. All those servers are just not the same because of people that I know, or don't know.

If anything, want to play with/need X, Y, Z players has been the main reason why I choose a server in past 2 years. But not the population number.

Afania

01-11-2017, 06:34 AM

Also @Diavolo, none of my argument is anti merge if you're worried about SE won't merge servers because of people's opinion about smaller servers. My entire argument in this discussion has been about connections and how current escha game content doesn't favor server size TOO big. I think 1000 people or even 1500 people is just fine as it is, and I certainly don't mind merging servers. 5000 people is definitely not ok for Escha content, and possibly other contents though.

detlef

01-11-2017, 06:42 AM

My argument is that anyone - and all their friends/LS mates if need be - can play the game the same way they're currently playing it if they moved servers. That being true, what purpose does a smaller server retain? Moving to Asura doesn't stop you from doing anything you're currently doing and, on top of that, presents you with new options the smaller servers do not. I use Asura as the standard not because I have friends there (though some did move there before/after and with me) but because, in all likelihood, no other server will come close to matching its English speaking player base before the game shuts down completely and 1,600 simultaneous accounts online is still a far cry from the numbers we used to play with. So, even if you're of the opinion that the game is 2x, 4x, 6x or whatever amount more demanding on the servers as it used to be there is still room to grow. 16 servers in 2017 is just too many. Players who return from a long hiatus often wind up hitting the message boards and asking where to transfer to because their servers are, in their eyes, dead compared to what they remembered. Why does this need to be a thing? Twice before in the game's history it consolidated servers when their numbers went too low for the dev team's liking. Those servers that were underpopulated in March 2010 and May 2011 were all more populated than Asura currently is today. Can we stop acting like 1,600 simultaneous players is too much for a world the size of FFXI's?Here's an example that may be unique to Valefor. In the NA community, I'd say we're generally months behind the really strong linkshells on other servers with more hardcore endgame communities. Basically, we have 2 NA linkshells that are capable of farming Aeonic weapons. We had a 3rd LS recently come back to the game from a long break; my hope is that they find success and start farming some Aeonics of their own. As I haven't experienced a larger server, I can't compare but I imagine the community is a lot more tight-knit and everybody knows everybody to a much higher degree. I live in Hawaii and I can definitely appreciate that (as the saying goes, "it's a small island"), although I acknowledge that it's not for everybody. People who burn their bridges leave. People who want gear faster than the server can provide it also leave. That's okay.

Even though the NA community is small, the JP community is both strong and numerous. This means that a lot of the multi-player aspects of the server are still quite functional, such as the maintenance of blessings (not all the time though) and AH supply/demand.

Yes, I'm sure you'll say Asura is just like that except there are more people to do things. Maybe? But maybe not.

If there is something you can do on a smaller server that's impossible to do on the larger ones I'd love to hear it. It might do this discussion some good as the accusations of hurling personal insults and having words stuffed down my throat are starting to get annoying.Hey now, only one person resorted to posting memes in this thread. If you're going to try and keep the discourse at a certain level, then check yourself.

I'm not making the claim that there's some things you can necessarily do on a smaller server that would be impossible on a larger server. Again, please, please go back to the first post I made in this thread that started this discussion.

Asura sounds great for some kinds of people but may not be ideal for everybody, even a returning playerMay not. As in, there may be people who prefer a different server.

Diavolo

01-11-2017, 09:21 AM

While I agree the rejection rate is most likely because of connection(that's like, literally the entire point I've been making) and possibly the higher competition in the job market, it's not possible to move entire server of NA population from one server to another like you claimed.

I never made such a claim. I'm telling you that you could move yourself/your LS/your friends to another server, in this case Asura, and still function as you are.

You keep having this ideal scenario in your head that entire community could just move without a word,

Why would anyone think this? Unless you're Professor X, communication is kind of necessary.

but you didn't consider the unique scenario that some people simply just don't move. You also speak strictly from a more general perspective, from a bigger picture, while I speak from an individual pov.

Of course I considered it. Some people are stubborn, some don't have the luxury of $18 to spend, some just don't care for large populations, which is an unfortunate case for someone paying to play an MMORPG, but I digress. We're all speaking from personal points of view.

And even if in your most ideal scenario that all the none big 3 server players move to Asura, that's 12 servers of population. 12x300= 3600. That's 3600+ more people adding to Asura's 1200 people, making it 4800+. Even if competition on Asura is tolerable now with 1200 players, it certainly won't be with 4800. In fact I think at that point it'd hurt Asura more than anything. And I certainly, for sure, without doubt, don't want to play on a server with close to 5000 people even if all my connections are around.

Why not? You did so in the past, assuming you played during the 75 cap days.

Also, "All the none big 3 server players"? That's an odd way to go about it. 16 servers -> 1 server with a wealth of changes to accommodate the larger population. Future content would need to be designed with the open world. Go take a stroll through the old zones like Meriphataud and La Theine Plataeu, for example, where you can sometimes take a look around and not see a single monster 45+ yalms from you in any direction. That old content can be updated while retaining it's low level progression and questing status. Just add more monsters, lower their respawn timers, tweak existing NMs and/or add new new ones, including drops. Voila. What's old is new again and, if successful, will draw players out of town or away from other content we currently feel pigeonholed into, for lack of a better term.

I'm not WoW's biggest fan, but it did some things exceptionally well, including the open world design where you could accidentally walk into a camp of monsters far above your level if you weren't paying attention. It added a sense of danger/exploration to it that no longer exists in FFXI. In this day and age I probably wouldn't be exaggerating to say there are a lot of players who wouldn't know their way around a lot of the world, such as Western Altepa/Quicksand Caves, Dangruf Wadi/Northern Gustaberg, and so on. That's disappointing for a game with a world of this size. Remember questing the Selbina map? This game needs to give us reasons to get back out to those older, often ignored areas and want to spend our time there. There's one solution to the overcrowding concern.

Also to people who repeatly play the "but other MMO has more than that" or "but 2006 FFXI has more than that" card. Other MMO has instances, FFXI doesn't.

2006 FFXI didn't have instances either. ;) We would get stuck waiting 1-45 mins in certain cases, or choose to move onto something else while the group inside finished up. The latter is what seems to escape people today. You see the Ambuscade wait time is 10 mins per entry, so why not go do something else until it quiets down? If your go-to CP camp is taken, instead of complaining about it on a message board or taking your ball and going home go explore the Adoulin areas. There are plenty of camps that are often ignored, to the point that when someone first discovers it they say something along the lines of "OMG guys, found a great camp, don't tell anyone!"

2017 FFXI only has 1 real endgame content which is T4/Kirin, and only 1 (ideal)pop spot for those NM.

Am I the only one that finds this claim ridiculous? Escha/Reis of all tiers, not just T4/Kirin, Ambuscade, Omen, HTBF, Sinister Reign, Vagary and UNM are all end game content that draw players out of town. Master Trials are a joke to me, but it's there for those who welcome the challenge and want a medieval lightsaber. While not necessarily end game content anymore, Delve, Abyssea, Dynamis and Assault/Salvage all still draw enough interest from players to spread them out across the world, too.

Here's an example that may be unique to Valefor.

It's not. I'm not the best mouthpiece for this particular issue as I haven't had any real interest in returning to the end game grind, but there are plenty of linkshells of varying degrees of success on Asura, some of which are very exclusive/elitist and some of which are welcoming of almost anyone that is at least halfway decently geared, as well as those who are just jumping into things for the first time, learning as they go and welcoming of everyone. Knowing what I do from firsthand experience, I have a very hard time accepting the idea that there is any situation where a player or players/linkshell from another server would have a difficult time mixing in with the existing population. It's very common to see players using /yell to announce their return or ask for help here and receive the help/answers they were seeking. And yes, get trolled in the process, too, but part of me still finds that entertaining (the part that will never grow up).

Even though the NA community is small, the JP community is both strong and numerous. This means that a lot of the multi-player aspects of the server are still quite functional, such as the maintenance of blessings (not all the time though) and AH supply/demand.

Functional, perhaps, but in this context that's as good as saying it's just barely acceptable. The JP community was the only thing keeping Cerberus from collapsing last year and I imagine that situation is probably quite similar for other servers right now as well. The average JP player, in my experience, aims to work together with those around them and is always looking to improve the team as a whole before themselves. The average NA player has dollar signs in their eyes and places themselves above everyone else. "You do you, I'll do me."

Hey now, only one person resorted to posting memes in this thread. If you're going to try and keep the discourse at a certain level, then check yourself.

Fair enough.

May not. As in, there may be people who prefer a different server.

Yes, but it's the "why?" I mean, you can say it's because of your friends/connections/LS, but again, if everyone you enjoy playing with was on the same page and agreed to transfer you would be able to do everything you did on your old server in addition to things you couldn't, so we come back to the original question: why would you prefer a smaller server?

Afania

01-11-2017, 10:30 AM

I never made such a claim. I'm telling you that you could move yourself/your LS/your friends to another server, in this case Asura, and still function as you are.

I can't, realistically. You made this entire argument assuming people on smaller servers only ever play with 3 close friends and they just need to text these 3 friends "Hey, let's move to Asura" and they'll all come and have all the connections with them on a new server.

It doesn't work that way. It's more like, most people have 2-4 different LSs, even the smallest LS that had 6-8 people excluding mules. There's also people that regularly can help with events. If I add all the people in my "endgame connections" together, that's at least 30 people. If I say "Hey, let's move to Asura", they'd just lol and continue to do whatever they usually do(aeonic/vag/whatever).

While it may be possible to convince 2~3 close friends to move(that was probably your case), it's not possible to convince ENTIRE SERVER of 30+ people in endgame connections to move, unless I'm Obama. Not to mention half of the people that i know of doesn't need to move as they have efficient aeonic groups, 6+ mules, ability to clear everything including master trials, are JPs etc, or just not interested in making progress on their characters.

You see, the issue here is complete lack of realistic incentives. You keep saying "everyone just move", then acted as if everyone all benefits greatly if entire server of people moves. The problem is that it simply isn't an incentive for many people. And that's A LOT of people, not just 2 to 3.

Can I convince 2-3 people to move with me? Probably. Can I convince 30+ people including JPs to move? No. And if I can't, then I can't function as I were. I'd have to rebuild my entire connection on different server, and even then it's not the same.

I keep repeating, over and over, I can't kill things on NotRagnarok like I kill things on Ragnarok, at least not as easily. I can't function as I was on any server like you claimed, and I'm feeling like a broken record now.

Why would anyone think this? Unless you're Professor X, communication is kind of necessary.

No amount of communication can translate to realistic incentives that's attractive to my friends, who already does better than 90% of Asurans that can't get into an endgame LS. What kind of incentive do you offer on the table for my NotAsura friends that already have master trial clears, aeonic, multiple mules? Nothing.

How about I'll give you the contact list of all my friends, see if you can convince them?

Of course I considered it. Some people are stubborn, some don't have the luxury of $18 to spend, some just don't care for large populations, which is an unfortunate case for someone paying to play an MMORPG, but I digress. We're all speaking from personal points of view.

Fair enough, at least you realized that you're speaking from a personal pov now, instead of universal truth.

While I agree that some people doesn't move because they're stubborn(If someone wants to make progress but unable to due to low pop, and refuse to move, then that person is definitely stubborn), 90% of the people that I've spoke to but refuse to move, have 2 solid reasons:

1) Making progress isn't appealing to them, nor it's their main in game goal. In that case paying $18 is just an illogical choice.
2) They have absolutely zero issue killing the hardest stuff in game and clear everything they want to, in that case paying $18 is just an illogical choice.

Also, "All the none big 3 server players"? That's an odd way to go about it. 16 servers -> 1 server with a wealth of changes to accommodate the larger population. Future content would need to be designed with the open world. Go take a stroll through the old zones like Meriphataud and La Theine Plataeu, for example, where you can sometimes take a look around and not see a single monster 45+ yalms from you in any direction. That old content can be updated while retaining it's low level progression and questing status. Just add more monsters, lower their respawn timers, tweak existing NMs and/or add new new ones, including drops. Voila. What's old is new again and, if successful, will draw players out of town or away from other content we currently feel pigeonholed into, for lack of a better term.

I'm not WoW's biggest fan, but it did some things exceptionally well, including the open world design where you could accidentally walk into a camp of monsters far above your level if you weren't paying attention. It added a sense of danger/exploration to it that no longer exists in FFXI. In this day and age I probably wouldn't be exaggerating to say there are a lot of players who wouldn't know their way around a lot of the world, such as Western Altepa/Quicksand Caves, Dangruf Wadi/Northern Gustaberg, and so on. That's disappointing for a game with a world of this size. Remember questing the Selbina map? This game needs to give us reasons to get back out to those older, often ignored areas and want to spend our time there. There's one solution to the overcrowding concern.

So, are you asking SE to redevelop ALL content and merge servers to accommodate larger player base? This is even more unrealistic than asking me to convince 30 people to transfer with me.

The matter of fact is, current game content doesn't favor 5k players 2006 style. In 75 days how many people do endgame? How many people just log on and exp their lv 45 jobs? These days most people at lv 99 more or less would attempt escha.

2006 FFXI didn't have instances either. ;) We would get stuck waiting 1-45 mins in certain cases, or choose to move onto something else while the group inside finished up. The latter is what seems to escape people today. You see the Ambuscade wait time is 10 mins per entry, so why not go do something else until it quiets down? If your go-to CP camp is taken, instead of complaining about it on a message board or taking your ball and going home go explore the Adoulin areas. There are plenty of camps that are often ignored, to the point that when someone first discovers it they say something along the lines of "OMG guys, found a great camp, don't tell anyone!"

Why would anyone go "explore adoulin areas" in event time while waiting for #2 pop spots to open up>.> Again, this makes no sense to me.

Am I the only one that finds this claim ridiculous? Escha/Reis of all tiers, not just T4/Kirin, Ambuscade, Omen, HTBF, Sinister Reign, Vagary and UNM are all end game content that draw players out of town. Master Trials are a joke to me, but it's there for those who welcome the challenge and want a medieval lightsaber. While not necessarily end game content anymore, Delve, Abyssea, Dynamis and Assault/Salvage all still draw enough interest from players to spread them out across the world, too.

Again, you're speaking from a "general population" perspective. And it can't apply to everyone. I haven't done SR/Vagary/UNM/HTBC for months because I don't need stuff from it, and I can do Ambuscade, Escha T1/T3 regardless of the server. There's no reason to choose servers for SR/Vagary/UNM/HTBC/Escha T1/T3 for me because I can do it regardless of the server.

It's the T4/master trial level of content that may affect my server choice. If I get an invite from a LS that's capable of clear T4/PW2/Master trials on a daily basis and guarantee a party spot in the party, I'd transfer to that server without 2nd thought, even if that server only has 60 people online everyday.

As you can see, I speak strictly about T4/master trials/PW2 sort of things, because it's content that interest me, and I can't just do these things on any server, even if the server has 5000 people. So why are you trying to apply your example on others?

It's not. I'm not the best mouthpiece for this particular issue as I haven't had any real interest in returning to the end game grind

Okay, so basically there are 2 people in this thread who obviously isn't involved in endgame, doesn't understand how endgame community works differently from PUG community, on the same time those people are trying to convince people that does endgame and state their pov as universal facts?

Let me set things straight. We're not on the same pages here, our playing experience, goals, desires, people that we know, are all too different. We are completely different type of player and we aren't going to reach an agreement in this case. It is fine that we're different, but it is not fine to act as if your situations apply to everyone. What works for YOU, doesn't necessary work for others who has different background, goals, connections etc.

From my perspective, most if not all of your arguments is either extremely unrealistic (Just ask everyone to move!), doesn't understand how things function(you can function as you were with friends transferring with you) or not considering individual in game goal differences. You just imagine how FFXI community works in your head, but realistically, it doesn't work that way.

Afania

01-11-2017, 11:27 AM

It's not. I'm not the best mouthpiece for this particular issue as I haven't had any real interest in returning to the end game grind, but there are plenty of linkshells of varying degrees of success on Asura, some of which are very exclusive/elitist and some of which are welcoming of almost anyone that is at least halfway decently geared,as well as those who are just jumping into things for the first time, learning as they go and welcoming of everyone.

So one more thing. Even you admitted that some of those Asura LSs are very exclusive/elitist, while others are struggling and learning how to clear contents.

So again, how are you going to convince people that already have highly developed LS/groups on NotAsura that isn't struggling on clearing contents transfer to Asura, only to find themselves either gets rejected, or have to settle with less progressed LSs that's struggling and learning content?

I'm just 100% quoting your own words here, which you clearly made an argument that can be considered as negative for some people.

Diavolo

01-11-2017, 04:50 PM

Okay, so basically there are 2 people in this thread who obviously isn't involved in endgame, doesn't understand how endgame community works differently from PUG community

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/ksbp.gif

Jin_Uzuki

01-11-2017, 07:16 PM

Okay, so basically there are 2 people in this thread who obviously isn't involved in endgame, doesn't understand how endgame community works differently from PUG community, on the same time those people are trying to convince people that does endgame and state their pov as universal facts?

Not again. I already explained you that your definition of endgame is wrong. Even if you think "endgame" only apply to 3 events you are interested in, it's not the proper definition of endgame and you don't know what endgame events I even did.

You simply chose to apply a super-restrictive definition of endgame and then wonder why people don't understand what you are talking about. Of course I ask you why you need #2 Reisenjima so much because you don't need it for the majority of endgame.

In short you are trying to be coy (as well as having bad maths).

Nyarlko

01-11-2017, 10:03 PM

So one more thing. Even you admitted that some of those Asura LSs are very exclusive/elitist, while others are struggling and learning how to clear contents.

So again, how are you going to convince people that already have highly developed LS/groups on NotAsura that isn't struggling on clearing contents transfer to Asura, only to find themselves either gets rejected, or have to settle with less progressed LSs that's struggling and learning content?

I'm just 100% quoting your own words here, which you clearly made an argument that can be considered as negative for some people.

-_-;;; I am sorry to say, but you fail at reading comprehension. Please, try to read what you quoted from Diavolo again, but without your added emphasis (which also negates your claim to "100% quoting" btw.)

I personally find it offensive that you classify us all as either elitist jerks or struggling noobs. And I'm honestly getting kinda tired of the venom being spewed from your direction for no discernable reason in this thread.

To oversimplify what you quoted: "There are some elitist jerks here, and there are some normal people here, and there are some really nice people here (who might not really know what they are doing.)"
In other words, the same as just about any gathering of more than ~10 human beings. ^^;;
"Some" does not equate to "all" or "most".
Are you trying to assert that Ragnarok only has linkshells chock-full of friendly, altruistic, elite players? If not, then there is nothing that you can really say against what you quoted.

---------------------------

To the OP: In an attempt to get this thread back on track, several of the early posts had a lot of good info on where you can get upgrades with a minimum of help. If you haven't found a good ls to help you, and a server move is a viable option for you, come to Asura and I will help you. ^^ (This is only because Asura is the server I am on and unrelated to any of the argumentative drama which followed the early helpful posts.)

Afania

01-11-2017, 11:37 PM

Not again. I already explained you that your definition of endgame is wrong. Even if you think "endgame" only apply to 3 events you are interested in, it's not the proper definition of endgame and you don't know what endgame events I even did.

You simply chose to apply a super-restrictive definition of endgame and then wonder why people don't understand what you are talking about. Of course I ask you why you need #2 Reisenjima so much because you don't need it for the majority of endgame.

In short you are trying to be coy (as well as having bad maths).

I used #2 and T4 as an example to demonstrate a fact that both you didn't consider people that has different need when you made the argument. My intention isn't to claim that every single player on the planet only ever do T4.

It's been point out over, and over, and over again. You guys made a "general" statement "Asura is the same as NotAsura except more population" "Asura is better than NotAsura because it has population". Which is like saying Japan is the same as China, or China is better than Japan because it has bigger population. And we all know it's far from truth.

Afania

01-11-2017, 11:44 PM

-_-;;; I am sorry to say, but you fail at reading comprehension. Please, try to read what you quoted from Diavolo again, but without your added emphasis (which also negates your claim to "100% quoting" btw.)

I personally find it offensive that you classify us all as either elitist jerks or struggling noobs. And I'm honestly getting kinda tired of the venom being spewed from your direction for no discernable reason in this thread.

To oversimplify what you quoted: "There are some elitist jerks here, and there are some normal people here, and there are some really nice people here (who might not really know what they are doing.)"
In other words, the same as just about any gathering of more than ~10 human beings. ^^;;
"Some" does not equate to "all" or "most".
Are you trying to assert that Ragnarok only has linkshells chock-full of friendly, altruistic, elite players? If not, then there is nothing that you can really say against what you quoted.

First things first, you completely misunderstood my quote wrong. And you also added things I didn't say in my previous post and yet you claim I did that to Diavolo's post >.>

None of the post that I've made say "X, Y, Z players are elitist jerks".

None of the post that I've made say "Anyone on Asura that isn't elitist jerks are noobs"

If anything it's you that's putting words in my mouth lol.

This is my understanding of what Diavolo said: "There are many endgame LS on Asura, some can clear T4/PW2 level of content, but those LS are very hard to get in with high requirements. The other LS is much easier to get in with lower requirements, but they have harder time to clear content at that level"

And my response completely reflects that. He claim that anyone can just transfer to Asura and have a good time, while mentioning top tier LS has higher requirements and hard to get in. So I questioned him why would people already have an endgame LS to kill things easily give up their LS so they can transfer to Asura, then take risks of getting application rejected and have to settle with LS that can't kill these as comfortably? It's equivalent to giving up a high paid job in your small home town in an attempt to move to bigger city so you can apply to Google, lol. Apples and Oranges, nothing wrong if someone choose not to take that risk/move.

None of my post never, ever claim all asura individual players are either elitist jerks or noob. It's 100% directed toward social environment and job market.

And yes, I'm aware there are elitist jerks, noobs, nice people that accomplish things on every sever lol. But when it comes to applying for endgame LSs, it's more than just that.

Afania

01-12-2017, 12:58 AM

@ Diavolo, Jin_Uzuki

Sorry for the 3rd post in a roll and a wall of text. I don't want to come out as some sort of "only I know about endgame, you don't know" jerk attitude. So I'll explain my points as clear as possible and I hope you guys understand my points.

-You guys claimed Asura provides faster character progression, this is 100% correct, in general.
-You guys claimed on NotAsura servers, if your friend is offline or afk, you can't do a thing, this is also 100% correct for people that doesn't play 6+ alts.
-You guys claimed Asura is better than NotAsura servers, this is 100% opinion. And there's a difference between opinion and facts. That's how this pages of drama started, you guys stated opinions as facts.
-You guys claimed Asura is the same as NotAsura servers in terms of social environment, the only difference is population. This is 100% incorrect, and it's equivalent to saying Japan is the same as China except population, or US is the same as Canada except population. And this is the statement that I mainly disagree with.

One of the difference between a 1000 people server and constant immigrant/returning player adding to the population, and a 400 people population that's mostly stagnant, is that on 400 people server, everyone knows people on a higher degree. If you just met a player that came from Siren 2 days ago on Asura, you simply aren't going to know that person as well as someone that you've been playing with for 8 years. So while Asura is a bigger server with more people, it doesn't quite function the same as 400 people server because 70% of population on that bigger server are either new, returning player, or immigrants.

When making parties for really, really hard stuff, or trying a new strategy in endgame, trust is very crucial for success. Sometimes it's as important as correct strategy, good gears, sometimes it's even more important than all of these things. You don't want people doubt leader's strategy, disband after one fail, start drama in /p chat when one member made a mistake, all these things could kill a party even if player skill/gears are good enough. In a party with low trust, these could happen very often.

And sometimes, this kind of trust just takes time to build. In some cases really, really long time.

No, I'm not saying Asura LS can't kill hard stuff(of course they can), I'm not saying Asura PUG is bad nor anything like that. And I certainly know many, many people that didn't do so well on NotAsura ended up doing a whole lot better on Asura because they have jobs endgame LS needs, so they applied to endgame LS and got in.

But for people like me, who doesn't really play jobs that endgame LS often recruits thus unable to get into endgame LSs, and enjoys theorycraft a setup and make my own party to try it, I often really, really, really need high lv of trust, intimacy, and knowledge to player behavior to pull some things off. And it can't done with PUG, or will be hard to do with PUG. In the end that certain accomplishments that I'm aiming for in this game, I simply just can't accomplish on NotRagnarok servers(this isn't just Asura, but also every other server that's not Ragnarok). And it's not because NotRagnarok players suck, but because I don't know NotRagnarok people as well as some of the Ragnarok people, and vice versa.

Is it possible for me to just work harder on Asura or other NotRagnarok servers and accomplish what I want? Maybe. I can lv and gear up an "endgame LS's favorite" jobs such as top tier RUN BLM SCH Idris GEO WHM etc, get into an endgame LS and still do these things with LS.

Or I can just play on those servers for really, really, really long time and build the trust/connections required.

But overall it's still more work, and that's the disadvantage for me. This may not be a disadvantage for many people, since 90% of player just lv up RUN BLM SCH Idris WHM and apply for endgame LS for these things. But for me, as an individual, it is one disadvantage that i can think of.

Of course you can just claim that "how about every friend on your server just move with you". Even if you guys claim 400 people is very small, it's still A LOT of people to move around. In past 2 years I've never seen more than 20 people transfer on the same time. It's always one person transferred, then his best friend transfer too, then 2 more friends in that connection transfer after 5 months. So the argument of "Asura is the best if everyone in your connection just transfer" is only valid on paper. Sorry that'd never happen realistically, at least not in short time.

Back when we started this argument, Diavolo claimed that smaller server has zero advantage. That zero statement is what I disagree with, if he made the claims like "Smaller server has less advantage, but it still has it's own advantage" I'm sure there won't be an argument at all. This has nothing to do with Asura players, nor I want to come out as some sort if Asura hater bashing the server, thinking Asura is all elitist jerk, trolls(although it does have more troll yells....), noobs, that weren't my intention at all.

If anything it's me who find you guys bashing NotAsura servers offensive, lol. In past 1 year I've accomplish some crazy things on Ragnarok that I could never, ever, ever accomplish on NotRagnarok servers because of some Ragnarok people that I know and gave me the opportunity to accomplish these things. And this came from someone who server transferred 8 times, and have played more than one characters on multiple servers with various population size in past 3 years. Claiming smaller server has zero advantage is IMO, flat out wrong if you consider personal circumstances instead of more of a general perspective.

No, I'm not saying Ragnarok > all server for everyone. And I still agree that Asura is generally a better server choice than NotAsura if your goal is to make progression. I simply just disagree with the statement of "Any server that's NotAsura has zero advantage" because a statement like this didn't consider personal circumstances, personal taste, personal preferences.

Afania

01-12-2017, 02:02 AM

The only difference is that you got 1000 players running around instead of 400. That's all. Which are low. 1000 players are absolutely low in a MMORPG.

(Both servers don't have 400 and 1000 players running around anyway once you start to count anyway because you need to take afk, bazaar, etc that grow as the playerbase grow)

You keep thinking I'm telling you to switch server, but I'm not. I'm telling you if your server had 1000 players literally nothing would change except things so small that they wouldn't be an issue unless you choose to make them so and will require you to ignore the advantages a more rich playerbase bring.

Sorry for 4th post because I just have a lot to say - -. I keep saying a statement like this is as wrong as claiming Japan is the same as China, because it doesn't consider how LS power structure is different from each other, and probably came from someone who isn't highly involved in endgame community, like how only none Japanese/Chinese people make generalized claims like Japan is the same as China because they're both Asian countries.

Some LS has more of a vertical power structure, in which the leader is the only person that makes decision when it comes to recruiting, strategy, contents etc. While everyone including sacks has very little power.

Some LS has more of a council style decision making process, in that case sacks has more power and influences, but not none sack members.

Some LS has more of a flat structure when it comes to decision making, that even none sack members has some influences when it comes to recruiting/strategy decisions.

These kind of LS culture all functions very differently from server to server, LS to LS. A player may be more suitable/prefer/do better in a flat organization, and vice versa. There's no way that every LS on every server are the same, lol.

Jin_Uzuki

01-12-2017, 03:47 AM

Sorry for 4th post because I just have a lot to say - -. I keep saying a statement like this is as wrong as claiming Japan is the same as China, because it doesn't consider how LS power structure is different from each other, and probably came from someone who isn't highly involved in endgame community, like how only none Japanese/Chinese people make generalized claims like Japan is the same as China because they're both Asian countries.

False equivalence is a thing, look it up.

Also good job complain about people making generalization while also making generalization I guess.

One of the difference between a 1000 people server and constant immigrant/returning player adding to the population, and a 400 people population that's mostly stagnant, is that on 400 people server, everyone knows people on a higher degree. If you just met a player that came from Siren 2 days ago on Asura, you simply aren't going to know that person as well as someone that you've been playing with for 8 years. So while Asura is a bigger server with more people, it doesn't quite function the same as 400 people server because 70% of population on that bigger server are either new, returning player, or immigrants.

First, you don't know all the 6,000 players of Ragnarok. That's psychically impossible.

Second, everyone knows everyone is what people used to say in 2006 when the server had 10k+ players active anytime.

Third 1000 people online anytime are really low.

I used #2 and T4 as an example to demonstrate a fact that both you didn't consider people that has different need when you made the argument. My intention isn't to claim that every single player on the planet only ever do T4.

We were discussing endgame events. You specifically referred to a version of endgame that only exists in your mind and only includes 3 events while discharging every other endgame even, and without making it clear. When I didn't realize what you were talking about you went "You probably don't do endgame". Uh.

Also again, I'm not telling you to switch server. I don't know how I can make it clear. I'm telling you that if Ragnarok suddenly gained 1000 players nothing would change. You would still do what you are doing now.

Diavolo

01-12-2017, 04:00 AM

In past 1 year I've accomplish some crazy things on Ragnarok that I could never, ever, ever accomplish on NotRagnarok servers because of some Ragnarok people that I know and gave me the opportunity to accomplish these things.

Name one or two of those things.

Afania

01-12-2017, 05:36 AM

Name one or two of those things.

For what? So you can proceed to say "But X, Y, Z LS/group on Asura did the the same on [date]"? I'm not in your X, Y, Z LS, nor have connections with any of these people, there's no way I could accomplish the same thing even if other people already done it. And that was my point, while you repeatly making point of "But X, Y, Z group did all these on Asura just fine, thus everyone should transfer to Asura" which I don't agree with.

But if you insist that I should name 1 or 2, I'll name 2 as requested.

1) Obtain a leadership/decision maker position in an endgame LS.
2) Create an alliance for high lv content, such as WoC, with 5+ prebuff mules without paying anyone.

I can't accomplish 1) nor 2) just on any server because I don't have the connections to do so, like I said pages ago. To accomplish 1 you need to become leader's close friend. To accomplish 2 you need to know 5 friends willing to come, buff and drop or play with friends with mules. All the people that could give me the opportunity to accomplish 1) and 2) that I know of are on Ragnarok.

Afania

01-12-2017, 05:44 AM

First, you don't know all the 6,000 players of Ragnarok. That's psychically impossible.

No one claim to know 6000 players, good job putting words in my mouth.

Third 1000 people online anytime are really low.

No one said 1000 people online anytime is super high populations, we only said current escha content design can't support 5000 people very well. Which is fact.

Also again, I'm not telling you to switch server. I don't know how I can make it clear. I'm telling you that if Ragnarok suddenly gained 1000 players nothing would change. You would still do what you are doing now.

Yes if a server suddenly gained 1000 players it will be different lol. Of course people would still do the same content, but claiming nothing would change is just lol. Back then when Rag server merged with Cait Sith Rag gained 1000+ players, things changed. Things always change, nothing is stagnant. Ragnarok in 2006 is different from 2015, 2015 is different from 2017. So does Asura. Claiming nothing changes is beyond ridiculous.

Diavolo

01-12-2017, 06:00 AM

For what?

Oh, you know, discussion.

Your entire argument, that Asura is not for everyone, hinges on one point: that you cannot accomplish the same things on Asura that you can on other servers, in this case Ragnarok. Prove it. What crazy things did you accomplish on a quieter server [Ragnarok] that you believe you can't accomplish on a larger one [Asura]?

Afania

01-12-2017, 06:03 AM

Oh, you know, discussion.

Your entire argument, that Asura is not for everyone, hinges on one point: that you cannot accomplish the same things on Asura that you can on other servers, in this case Ragnarok. Prove it. What crazy things did you accomplish on a quieter server [Ragnarok] that you believe you can't accomplish on a larger one [Asura]?

I just did an edit and listed 2 very specific examples, check it out. There are more if you want me to list more.

Also before you proceed to make an argument of "But you can totally do that on any server if you do X, Y, Z, such as cybering with ls leader, lv prebuff mules yourself, make better friends. You know, X, Y, Z Asura LS uses 10 prebuff mules all the time, and I have 10 friends that runs endgame LS". Please consider the difficulty and extra work required for alternative solutions. If extra work is required, then it's considered a negative, not positive.

Jin_Uzuki

01-12-2017, 06:51 AM

No one claim to know 6000 players, good job putting words in my mouth.

To quote yourself:

that on 400 people server, everyone knows people on a higher degree

I can assure you that "knowing people" even to a "higher degree" is not exclusive to low pop server, as old FFXI showed us.

No one said 1000 people online anytime is super high populations, we only said current escha content design can't support 5000 people very well. Which is fact.

Speaking of putting words in mouths, I don't know if it can support 5000, but I sure know it can support 1000. Either way, even if it did, life finds a way, just like it did in 2006 with far worse competition, I suppose?

Yes if a server suddenly gained 1000 players it will be different lol. Of course people would still do the same content, but claiming nothing would change is just lol.

Oh yes, they would. PUG would be more actives, people could do more events resulting in low queues (Since not everyone is pigeonholed into ambu) and AH would have a better economy as more materials would be provided. But for anything else? You could still do your T4 and Master Trials, I assure you.

Diavolo

01-12-2017, 07:10 AM

But if you insist that I should name 1 or 2, I'll name 2 as requested.

1) Obtain a leadership/decision maker position in an endgame LS.
2) Create an alliance for high lv content, such as WoC, with 5+ prebuff mules without paying anyone.

I can't accomplish 1) nor 2) just on any server because I don't have the connections to do so, like I said pages ago. To accomplish 1 you need to become leader's close friend. To accomplish 2 you need to know 5 friends willing to come, buff and drop or play with friends with mules. All the people that could give me the opportunity to accomplish 1) and 2) that I know of are on Ragnarok.

I'm being trolled, aren't I?

I don't mean to diminish your accomplishments or sound mean, but those aren't "crazy things," especially the part about not having to pay anyone and needing 5 or more prebuff mules. You seem experienced with Escha/Reis NMs, you would easily be able to accomplish those same goals on Asura in short order, with or without your friends.

Afania

01-12-2017, 07:34 AM

I'm being trolled, aren't I?

I don't mean to diminish your accomplishments or sound mean, but those aren't "crazy things," especially the part about not having to pay anyone and needing 5 or more prebuff mules. You seem experienced with Escha/Reis NMs, you would easily be able to accomplish those same goals on Asura in short order, with or without your friends.

Nope I can't!

Maybe I shoulda be more clear and explain in details, while 1) and 2) that I listed doesn't sound like "crazy things" nor being considered as accomplishment by you, it directly tied to some goals that I had in game last summer.

One of the goals that I had in game last summer, was to make a melee WoC pt and see the shortest possible kill speed doable with my resource. So at that time I told my friend "I think it's possible to make a 2 min WoC pt, let's try that"

As a gamer I hope we can both agree that "challenging the shorter kill record" is often considered goals and accomplishments. That's how some people, including myself, have fun.

If you search youtube, there's a couple of melee woc kills from several top LSs that provides general avg kill speed. The first video is done by RiotForceSix of Odin, which was 6min done with 4 DDs. There was another one done by Bloodlusty of Asura, which was 4 min kill done with 4 DDs. Another one was done by Spicryan, which was 3:30 min with 3 DDs and 1 DD COR. All of these groups and people are top tier, with top tier DD jobs, and yet none of them accomplished 2 min kill. If these people can't accomplish 2 min kill, what makes you think a nobody average joe like me could do it?

There were only 2 solutions.
1) Get better DDs(than those youtube people and server top LSs).
2) Use prebuff mules, drop COR and BRD in the ally, so you get more DPS buff without having to add HP.

1) is very unrealistic 2) is easier. Thus I choose 2), and I'd still prefer 2) anytime over 1), realistically speaking. We kept adding more and more prebuff mules/DD to ally to improve kill speed until the kill speed finally reached 2 min.

If you think 1) is realistically doable for most people, I'd like to see a youtube video from you for the same result without using prebuffs.

Long story short:

If you think I could just transfer to any server with 5000 people, and suddenly finish all the hardest content in a day without any friends, connections, top end LS supports then you're dead wrong. It's not possible to accomplish many things without people that you know, people that you trust, people willing to invite you, or people willing to follow you. And THAT requires connections. You don't just stand there, shout for a party of 10 people on a 2000 people server without knowing anyone and expect to kill the hardest things in game as easily as server top LSs.

If you think you could do that, you're either drastically better than me(and majority of endgame players) at this game, or have extremely unrealistic/overconfident point of view about how to create, organize, building a team and manage a party/ls for the hardest content in game.

Again, for this entire discussion, I feel like I'm talking with someone living on another planet that just talk all day and no action, or imagine things that's easier said than done. That is fine, really. I don't expect we share the same point of view toward endgaming since our goals, background and experiences are very different.

But claims like "You seem experienced with Escha/Reis NMs, you would easily be able to accomplish those same goals on Asura in short order, with or without your friends" is just wrong, and you have no idea how wrong you are.

kylani

01-12-2017, 08:54 AM

/Comfort Afania...

I totally agree with your points, but you're arguing with brick walls. You could say you prefer your server because you love the name, and these guys will tell you you're wrong. It really doesn't matter why people prefer a server, people do, and no matter what these two think, everyone has a right to the way they feel.

Diavolo

01-12-2017, 09:00 AM

I totally agree with your points, but you're arguing with brick walls. You could say you prefer your server because you love the name, and these guys will tell you you're wrong.

No, actually, that would make more sense that anything he's put forth to date.

Afania

01-12-2017, 09:08 AM

No, actually, that would make more sense that anything he's put forth to date.

Definitely make more sense than your claim about "But you can kill everything just as easily without friends on Asura!" In Diavolo's world, Asura is magic land. Whoever transfers to Asura can kill Kirin/WoC/T4/PW2/master trials easily without friends!

I wish there's a real FFXI magic land that magically hand me gears, clears, wins without having to go out and make friends like Diavolo's Asura though!

Diavolo

01-12-2017, 09:11 AM

Definitely make more sense than your claim about "But you can kill everything just as easily without friends on Asura!" In Diavolo's world, Asura is magic land. Whoever transfers to Asura can kill Kirin/WoC/T4/PW2/master trials in a few days!

I wish there's a real FFXI magic land though, unfortunately not.

If that's your definition of magic then, uh, yeah, magic is real. ;)

Afania

01-12-2017, 09:13 AM

If that's your definition of magic then, uh, yeah, magic is real. ;)

How come everyone on Asura don't have light sabers already! And people still asking to buy aeonic on FFXIAH!
Magic is magic, because it's imagination only!

detlef

01-12-2017, 09:13 AM

Well to be fair he doesn't actually know. Maybe Asura really is just as competition-free as my Podunk server. Can an Asura end-gamer confirm?

Afania

01-12-2017, 09:16 AM

If that's your definition of magic then, uh, yeah, magic is real. ;)

Your definition of magic probably includes merc :) In that case disregard everything I said. Magic is real, because money IS magic!

Diavolo

01-12-2017, 09:20 AM

There's no competition on ANY server anymore, that went out with HNMs, sadly.

Afania

01-12-2017, 09:24 AM

There's no competition on ANY server anymore, that went out with HNMs, sadly.

I know it sounds trollish so please forgive me, but I just gonna say this. Diavolo, you're starting to sound like some sort of insurance sales >.>Magic is real, etc.

Diavolo

01-12-2017, 09:29 AM

Your definition of magic probably includes merc :) In that case disregard everything I said. Magic is real, because money IS magic!

Come on now, get out of the dirt. I realize there are lots of people who resort to being lazy and throwing gil around to get what they want, even level 99, but I ain't one of those people. The game's too easy to justify it. Do I need to remind you of this:

"2) Create an alliance for high lv content, such as WoC, with 5+ prebuff mules without paying anyone."

I think it speaks for itself.

Afania

01-12-2017, 09:37 AM

Come on now, get out of the dirt. I realize there are lots of people who resort to being lazy and throwing gil around to get what they want, even level 99, but I ain't one of those people. The game's too easy to justify it. Do I need to remind you of this:

Then it goes back to my original point, even if you can do it, it's more work still.

Go out and establish new connections for endgame is more work. Paying people is more work because gil takes time to get. So if one person already have connections to do endgame without having to pay/make new friends, he'd need to work harder on Asura.

The fact is, Asura isn't as magical as you claimed, immigrants still have to work hard for it, make new friends, establish new connections with LS, compromise and gear/lv up certain high demand jobs to get a chance for magic to come true, and that takes time. If one individual(not me, I'm not a super established player) already has the connection/ls for hard stuff without having to put more hours on gear/job/connections on NotAsura server then he simply aren't going to do better on Asura without more work.

Most if not all the people that transferred to Asura and ended up did better are people that don't have group/ls/friends to get things done on their original servers, they had no choice but leave. Of course situations will improve because they're already in a very bad position before transfer. And that's probably the "magic" that you're talking about.

But if a player that's already established, then transferring just isn't a good choice for them. More like wasting $18

Either way, people with common sense woulda know that your claim about Asura magic story aren't all real, more like 80% real, but not 100% real. If there's a sales position in FFXI, you'd probably be top sales.

Diavolo

01-12-2017, 10:11 AM

Asura magic story aren't all real, more like 80% real, but not 100% real.

This is quite the rabbit hole.

detlef

01-12-2017, 11:16 AM

Afania

01-12-2017, 11:53 AM

Diavolo

01-12-2017, 12:15 PM

Look, this isn't getting anybody anywhere. Nobody can prove anything. But here are two statements:

1. Asura is the best server for everybody.
2. Asura is probably the best server for everybody but there may be people who prefer other servers for various reasons.

It only takes 1 dissatisfied player to to disprove Statement 1. It only takes 1 satisfied player to prove Statement 2.

How many people have left Asura seeking a fresh start on a quieter server and are still around to tell the story? Conversely, how many people have left a quieter server to seek a fresh start on a larger server? Market trends and societal changes being what they are, it's no surprise FFXI has evolved into what it is today, but the numbers/testimonials on sites like FFXIAH and Reddit don't lie. Again, going back to an earlier post (the one with the Kanye meme), "You're comfortable where you are and see no reason to uproot yourself, which is fair enough, but when it comes to MMORPGs bigger is better."

All things being equal, if you go back to 2003 and see two ads for FFXI, one saying "Meet dozens of players from across the world" and another with an ad campaign saying "meet thousands of players from across the world" which one do you think would be more successful at drawing interest?

Afania

01-12-2017, 12:46 PM

How many people have left Asura seeking a fresh start on a quieter server and are still around to tell the story? Conversely, how many people have left a quieter server to seek a fresh start on a larger server? Market trends and societal changes being what they are, it's no surprise FFXI has evolved into what it is today, but the numbers/testimonials on sites like FFXIAH and Reddit don't lie. Again, going back to an earlier post (the one with the Kanye meme), "You're comfortable where you are and see no reason to uproot yourself, which is fair enough, but when it comes to MMORPGs bigger is better."

All things being equal, if you go back to 2003 and see two ads for FFXI, one saying "Meet dozens of players from across the world" and another with an ad campaign saying "meet thousands of players from across the world" which one do you think would be more successful at drawing interest?

Nobody is disagreeing with your statement of "but when it comes to MMORPGs bigger is better." though. And nobody is disagreeing about the fact that more people prefers Asura than NotAsura servers. I even agree with many, many points that you've made in this discussions. Do you even read other people's opinions? Or you just keep writing your own opinions without bother to read others opinions?

We're disagreeing with you about how you present your opinions. You stated opinion as facts, and even make assumption about certain circumstances(anyone can magically accomplish everything on Asura without friends regardless of content difficulty, people misunderstood your beloved Asura and don't know better etc) just to win this internet argument.

If you don't state your opinion as facts, nobody would say a thing. But you go on, and on, and onnnnnnn with countless utterly ridiculous, unrealistic claims that's way too far from the truth just to support your opinion. And that's the issue.

Now carry on, keep trying to win this internet argument that nobody is real winner. It doesn't change the fact that many things you said in your Asura sales pitch are either flat out wrong, or just your personal opinions, or only partially correct.

You know, I 100% support your opinion that FFXI needs a server merge, and some server needs bigger population. But I am not going to make ridiculous or incorrect statement just to support my opinion. And at least I'm well aware that there's a difference between opinions and facts.

Afania

01-12-2017, 01:16 PM

detlef

01-12-2017, 03:28 PM

Folken

01-12-2017, 04:31 PM

There's no competition on ANY server anymore, that went out with HNMs, sadly.

Weird that I had to fight for claim on Jaculus the other day, of all things.

Edit: If any of my friends who left the game come back and look for me, I'll still be on Leviathan. I play very seldom, usually just enough to solo/duo NQ ambuscade gear, and maybe some other random stuff once in a while. There would be no positives for me to switch to Asura to make up for the negative of missing an old returning friend.

Diavolo

01-12-2017, 04:42 PM

Uh that's fine. Those testimonials are great. Asura being the Reddit server is great. I don't disagree with that and nothing I've posted would go against that. But you're still trying to speak for every player and every situation when that's just not possible.

Except I'm not. Don't mistake the expression of my opinion as some sort of attempt to speak on behalf of everyone.

This isn't a comparison of Japan, Canada and the United States or whatever real world analogy gets brought up. The servers all house very different collections of players with wildly varying backgrounds and play styles, but the fact remains, they function using the exact same rules and they once housed near or around 10,000 simultaneous players. Those were populations far more diverse than what currently exists on any server today and we coexisted just fine. I understand convincing entire linkshells/social circles to move server isn't practical, unfortunately, and there are technical hurdles, but I refuse to accept the idea that your quality of life would diminish if you were able to carry everyone you knew over to the largest server.

You obviously have strong ties to your server. I tried to downplay the natural fear associated with moving by including your social circles in the theoretical situation and still you resist the idea, so there's something else at play there.

Diavolo

01-12-2017, 05:06 PM

Edit: If any of my friends who left the game come back and look for me, I'll still be on Leviathan. I play very seldom, usually just enough to solo/duo NQ ambuscade gear, and maybe some other random stuff once in a while. There would be no positives for me to switch to Asura to make up for the negative of missing an old returning friend.

Never added them to Friend's List or kept in touch with them outside of the game? Life's too short to spend it waiting around for players that may never return. I'd love to see some of my old friends and LS mates, but the way things have changed chances are that we'll run across each other on Asura if they return. Already came across a handful of people I knew from the 75 cap era here and they likely won't be the last.

Leviathan's English speaking pop wasn't all that high last I saw, not much better than Cerberus from what I could tell. Surprised two players would find themselves fighting over Jaculus of all things.

detlef

01-12-2017, 06:13 PM

Except I'm not. Don't mistake the expression of my opinion as some sort of attempt to speak on behalf of everyone.Very good. I acknowledge that you are expressing our opinion, albeit so strongly that it comes off as if it were an indisputable fact.

but I refuse to accept the idea that your quality of life would diminish if you were able to carry everyone you knew over to the largest server.I'm not arguing that it would definitely diminish. Rather, I'm arguing that it could diminish, either for me or for another player. All I've ever argued is that it's possible that the situation isn't right for every player.

You obviously have strong ties to your server. I tried to downplay the natural fear associated with moving by including your social circles in the theoretical situation and still you resist the idea, so there's something else at play there.Okay.

Oh, also you asked for something that couldn't be done on Asura. I'm not sure if this qualifies (and it's not like you asked me) but I doubt I could've accomplished this there:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/detlef11/img_20170111_230257.png

Folken

01-12-2017, 06:45 PM

Never added them to Friend's List or kept in touch with them outside of the game?
Some, yes, but obviously not everyone. Lost touch with some due to various circumstances.

Leviathan's English speaking pop wasn't all that high last I saw, not much better than Cerberus from what I could tell. Surprised two players would find themselves fighting over Jaculus of all things.
Not sure what the english population has to do with anything, but if I run into someone at Jaculus on Leviathan, what does that tell me about Asura?

Diavolo

01-12-2017, 08:01 PM

Not sure what the english population has to do with anything, but if I run into someone at Jaculus on Leviathan, what does that tell me about Asura?

Fair assumption, but it's nowhere near that bad here. I might have a little more enjoyment making my way around Vana'diel if it was as I got a thrill out of competing for claims in the old days. :p

Afania

01-12-2017, 10:14 PM

This isn't a comparison of Japan, Canada and the United States or whatever real world analogy gets brought up.

I kept using Japan, Canada and the US real world analogy to describe the fact that each server has their own unique "culture" within them, despite some may think FFXI servers all operate under the same rule.

Example, here is an example that anyone can easily verify by using FFXIAH or log on on an Asura mule. On Asura there's an unique /yell culture that only exists on Asura, and only exists since recent years. If one person /yell something in public channel, it'd turn into chains of "conversations" that could last for more than an hour, and some of these "conversations" are either jokes/troll/politic talks/LS drama. There are people that creates mules with unique names just to join those "conversations". I consider this culture unique to Asura because I've never notice this trend happen on any other server, including some of the bigger ones, at least not as frequently. And it's also irrelevant to server size, even in 75 days when each server has 3k players, conversations in public chat never happen nearly as frequently nor last as long. Safe to say that this "culture" was developed on 2017 Asura because of time, circumstances and synergy between people.

And this kind of cultural differences, does affect one individual's server choice because everyone has different preferences. One individual may love yell conversations, thus love Asura and play there. One individual may dislike yell conversations, but still prefers faster character progress, in that case he'd still prefer Asura but just /blist everyone and their mules used in yells. Or one individual may dislike yell conversations, and doesn't play for character progression, in that case he'd prefer another server that's not Asura because he gains no advantage on Asura, only disadvantages.

I see people kept ignoring how each server's unique culture affects an individual's choice when making an argument in this discussion. One person's point of view about "quality of life" could be vastly different from the others. Hell, some people may play FFXI just to get "NA server first clear" bragging right, and he found his group has higher chance to obtain this title on a 300 people server than a 1000 people server, thus prefer a 300 people server. Don't laugh, I really know one person in this game talk about "server first!" all the time.

This also applies to 2006 FFXI v.s 2017, and FFXI v.s other MMO. People kept oversimplify things without considering unique circumstances that exists from individual to individual, server to server, content to content and more importantly MMO to MMO.

Here is another example:

I recall in one of the conversation on FFXIAH forums, someone mentioned that there's a lot more data flow(or whatever more technical terms that should be used) in post 2015 era than 2006 era, due to faster game pace and more gear swapping, and possibly more gears. I mean, with GS people swap 3 sets of gear per second these days, min max sets to an extreme point, and WS every 5 sec, in 2006 did we even swap gears? How long does it takes to WS? I wouldn't be surprised if a 400 people server in 2017 ended up having more data flow than 5000 people server in 2006 just because we swap gears much, much, much faster.

This extra data flow may cause more stress to the server. While the server may be able to support 10000 players in 2006, this may not be the case now. Although we'll never know unless we're SE ITs.

Content wise, 2017 contents are also very different from 2006.

When we have all these discussions, it's really just not possible to just use 2006 FFXI as a holy grail or text book standard and tell people "but everything is the same!!!". Different server culture, different technical limitations, different content. Everything is
different, too different to make a fair comparison to determine the ideal server size, let alone making claims like it's universal facts.

Jin_Uzuki

01-12-2017, 10:50 PM

Example, here is an example that anyone can easily verify by using FFXIAH or log on on an Asura mule. On Asura there's an unique /yell culture that only exists on Asura, and only exists since recent years. If one person /yell something in public channel, it'd turn into chains of "conversations" that could last for more than an hour, and some of these "conversations" are either jokes/troll/politic talks/LS drama. There are people that creates mules with unique names just to join those "conversations". I consider this culture unique to Asura because I've never notice this trend happen on any other server, including some of the bigger ones, at least not as frequently. And it's also irrelevant to server size, even in 75 days when each server has 3k players, conversations in public chat never happen nearly as frequently. Safe to say that this "culture" was developed on 2017 Asura because of time, circumstances and synergy between people.

That's not Asura culture. That's "there are a lot of people online and running around culture". Of course it happened less because /yell was not a thing , but shout conversations in Aht Ughan Whitegate were certainly a thing. /yell conversation don't happen in low pop server not because of "culture" but because with 300 people running around, with half of them being mules or afk.

That happened in 2006, less so because /yell was not a thing, but certainly happen. Hell, it happened on your own server and I can that because I was on Ragnarok on 2007 and I played on that server for years (One I still remember after all these years was World Cup shout fights). Shouts "drama" or "conversations" are nothing new.

Or one individual may dislike yell conversations, and doesn't play for character progression, in that case he'd prefer another server that's not Asura because he gains no advantage on Asura, only disadvantages.

Like what, panics attacks for /yell? Why are you being so dramatic?

The only "culture" that exists in FFXI is "current game culture" and it's generally shared by all servers. Maybe some servers are exclusively ERP, but I'm not privy to that.

Afania

01-13-2017, 04:41 AM

That's not Asura culture. That's "there are a lot of people online and running around culture". Of course it happened less because /yell was not a thing ,

Yell function was implemented before 2012 if I remember correctly. By 2013 the function is already usable in many areas.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/35228-July-9-2013-%28JST%29-Version-Update?highlight=Yell

At 2013~2014, most of the servers still had 1k population and yet conversations rarely happen. In fact there were forum posts asking why people don't "chat" in public channels like other MMO. I vaguely recalled even in early 2015 a good weekend Ragnarok population still spikes over 1k and yet there were little, or less conversations. On the other hand, Asura didn't become dominate NA server until something like 2015, when more and more people started transferring there. Before that the population gap between servers were much smaller. And yet yell conversation was never, ever, ever a thing regardless of server. Not on Ragnarok when it had 1k pop, not on Asura in early 2015 nor even late 2015. It only happened post 2016, and gets progressively more noticeable in late 2016. I'm 100% certain this culture is irrelevant to populations.

I personally believe the reason why conversations didn't happen as often back then is because of JPs. Some JP seems to believe it's impolite to chat in public. In FFXI servers were mostly dominate by JP community back then, so public conversations were less acceptable and mostly done by NA, even then it's just some.

As NA population gets more and more dominate on Asura, public conversations may just be more socially acceptable than how it used to be.

In other words, you can have 3k population, but there's still a chance that conversation may not happen depending on who's in the server. Hell on JP prime during free campaign, Rag still spiked past 800 in the weekend, quite close to 1000. And yet shout channels only has recruit shouts 98% of time.

That happened in 2006, less so because /yell was not a thing, but certainly happen.

People chat with shout in town in 75 era yes, but none of them ever become 1-2 hour long "conversation" from my experience. The /yell conversation on Asura was definitely a unique case.

That happened in 2006, less so because /yell was not a thing, but certainly happen. Hell, it happened on your own server and I can that because I was on Ragnarok on 2007 and I played on that server for years (One I still remember after all these years was World Cup shout fights). Shouts "drama" or "conversations" are nothing new.

Even if some people shout for world cup fights occasionally like you said, it certainly didn't happen as often as Asura late 2016 to 2017. In fact it happened way less often in early 2015s.

Like what, panics attacks for /yell? Why are you being so dramatic?

No one is "dramatic" about yells, lol. But surely people could have the freedom to CHOOSE not to see them, no?

The only "culture" that exists in FFXI is "current game culture" and it's generally shared by all servers.

Again, this is an extremely generalized statement when it comes to the term culture. Every different group has their own culture regardless where you are. Even in a same school, different classes have different behaviors. Some classes are more quiet, some are more noisy. And the difference is very noticeable if you pay attention. This rl examples applies to FFXI, or any MMO, or anywhere where communities exists. Every LS culture are different, every server culture are different. How can you possibly make such claim that every group/server/ls whatever are the same? Unless we have different definition to the term culture. In this entire argument you basically just pop on the forum and claim all communities are the same no matter where they are.

You know, the term "culture" is broader than that.

Jin_Uzuki

01-13-2017, 05:01 AM

People chat with shout in town in 75 era yes, but none of them ever become 1-2 hour long "conversation" from my experience. The /yell conversation on Asura was definitely a unique case.

Because /yell was not a thing. I'm not sure what 2 hours conversation did you witness (Boy, you sure do pay attention to Asura chat even if you are not there, what's up that?) but I know for experience that shouts drama are nothing new.

There is no "culture" about. All you need is people willing to chat. Active people.

No one is "dramatic" about yells, lol. But surely people could have the freedom to CHOOSE not to see them, no?

And if they happen to see them what happen exactly? If they don't need shouts, they can carry on. If they do, then a low pop server is even worse worse for that person because sometimes there are 5 hours between one shout and another. Heck, by your own admission you can't stop looking at Asura chat.

It's not an issue unless you try to make so. Stop trying to make a negative every issue to justify some stances. Not finding every mandy outside of Adoulin is also an issue if you want, but it's not one worth making and certainly not one that is worth trading for all the plus everyone indirectly benefit from having 1000 players.

Again, this is an extremely generalized statement when it comes to the term culture

No, it's not. You are talking about SERVERS. It's where people LOG TO PLAY. Compare it to real-life culture is downright... I don't know, completely not a good comparison.

I barely notice a different with 2007 Ragnarok and 2014+ servers I played beyond the current endgame rules and setups and changed that were brought by the new gameplay.

OmnysValefor

01-13-2017, 05:12 AM

Jin is right, shout and yell conversations happened in Whitegate and Jeuno fairly often in 2007 through 2012 on Kujata and Valefor (Kujata merged to Valefor).

---

I hope people are aware that plenty of people on other servers are very geared right? If we go by ffxiah (not everyone's gear is visible on ffxiah), Odin and Ragnarok dominate the top positions.

I'll be completely honest: Valefor has no server culture. Noone ever LFG's, most people are afk. We have one person that loves to yell nonsense and most of the server has blacklisted him. I generally only type in ls chat and party chat.

I haven't "made a friend" on Valefor in a year and, if they didn't delete me when they transferred, more of my friendlist is on Asura than on Valefor.

detlef

01-13-2017, 05:18 AM

I'm glad you stick around Omny even though it's a net negative because you make other people quit.

Afania

01-13-2017, 05:19 AM

There is no "culture" about. All you need is people willing to chat. Active people.

"Culture".

I've met more than one people who consider "yell" or "shout" conversations impolite and noisy. There are even forum posts about people asking why yell conversations isn't a thing in FFXI like other MMO, or people ask for functions to turn off yell channel back when it was implemented.

If majority of people shares same opinion about "yell shouldn't be use for chat", then nobody would use yell as conversations tools. And vice versa. Yell conversations became a thing because people's point of view about yell channel changed.

And if they happen to see them what happen exactly? If they don't need shouts, they can carry on. If they do, then a low pop server is even worse worse for that person because sometimes there are 5 hours between one shout and another. Heck, by your own admission you can't stop looking at Asura chat.

Again, you're trying to make a generalized statement about people's preferences. What if that person just don't care about shout, or PUG? Then that person has no reason to choose Asura.

What happened here is that you clearly prefer a more active yell channel with more PUG/conversation going on, I'm not telling you you're wrong. But what you're doing here on this forum repeatedly, is that you're telling anyone who prefer a quiet server with less shout is wrong. And that's the issue.

It's not an issue unless you try to make so. Stop trying to make a negative every issue to justify some stances. Not finding every mandy outside of Adoulin is also an issue if you want, but it's not one worth making and certainly not one that is worth trading for all the plus everyone indirectly benefit from having 1000 players.

Once again, you're trying to apply your own personal preferences on every individual that has different taste, preferences, opinions from you. Surely people are allowed to prefer a 50 people server because he wants all the mandies. While you pop on the forum and scream "HOW DARE YOU PREFER MANDIES OVER PARTIES".

No, it's not. You are talking about SERVERS. It's where people LOG TO PLAY. Compare it to real-life culture is downright... I don't know, completely not a good comparison.

All those characters are played by real people. Of course they behave like real people. What'd you expect? People log on to a FFXI character then suddenly they're not human being anymore?

You have extremely narrow definition about the term culture. Look it up, this came from google.

Culture(n):
"the attitudes and behavior characteristic of a particular social group"

As long as you have a group of people that got together, there's culture. Party to party, LS to LS, server to server, MMO to MMO, classes to classes in schools irl, companies to companies irl. All of these could be defined as social groups and behaves differently depends on groups.

OmnysValefor

01-13-2017, 05:20 AM

I'm glad you stick around Omny even though it's a net negative because you make other people quit.

It was one guy ; ;. As Jack Nicholson said, he couldn't handle the truth.

Diavolo

01-13-2017, 05:23 AM

It's like you're throwing everything you can at a wall until something sticks, Afania. You agree that bigger is better and yet keep trying to rationalize why someone would prefer staying on a smaller server. That's fine, but at the end of the day those people, regardless of how well they're doing, are losing out on a better experience. Remove the technical hurdles from the equation (no fee, names that don't meet a certain criteria released, more ??? locations, no server lag, etc, etc) and the servers would eat themselves alive until there was just 1 or 2 left because as much as someone might enjoy what they're doing with their 5-10 LS mates the complete lack of bazaars and barren AH, among other things, would soon make them miss those other, annoying people.

It is indeed an unrealistic scenario to have one server's pop go beyond 2K concurrent players under the current circumstances, that's why it's pitched as a theoretical. This game is always changing, so don't limit yourselves to the line of thinking that just because the game is the way it is today it can't evolve into something else. I doubt anyone here ever entertained the thought of FFXI becoming so solo-friendly back in 2003-2004.

Jin_Uzuki

01-13-2017, 05:54 AM

Again, you're trying to make a generalized statement about people's preferences. What if that person just don't care about shout, or PUG? Then that person has no reason to choose Asura.
What happened here is that you clearly prefer a more active yell channel with more PUG/conversation going on, I'm not telling you you're wrong. But what you're doing here on this forum repeatedly, is that you're telling anyone who prefer a quiet server with less shout is wrong. And that's the issue.

No, I actually don't care for /yell culture. It's not even good to talk because of timer. You can prefer a quiet server, sure, but I do wonder what about shouts riddles so much. It's hard to take serious anyone who has few issues about people saying some things in /yell in a MMORPG much because the way you act, you are talking about it being a life changing experience, while at the best it's a minor hurdle not worth trading all the benefits more active AH for example. (Unless you NEVER use the AH or interact with other players)

You know what happens to all the people who don't like yell on Asura? Nothing, they move on with their life. Because it's, realistically, not an issue.

If Ragnarok had 1000 players active all the time, I can assure you that all it would take for someone to start a /yell conversation was to... yell and people would answer.

Once again, you're trying to apply your own personal preferences on every individual that has different taste, preferences, opinions from you. Surely people are allowed to prefer a 50 people server because he wants all the mandies. While you pop on the forum and scream "HOW DARE YOU PREFER MANDIES OVER PARTIES".

In a MMORPG? No, not really. I mean, he's allowed, but no one would ever take it seriously.

Diavolo

01-13-2017, 07:16 AM

All those characters are played by real people.

They're owned by real people. They're not always played by people.

I can't publicly post what I want to here without opening a set of floodgates, but I would be impressed if, after years of playing alongside multiboxers, you haven't witnessed third party tool use to automate secondary accounts, both for short term and long term objectives.

Afania

01-13-2017, 07:34 AM

No, I actually don't care for /yell culture. It's not even good to talk because of timer. You can prefer a quiet server, sure, but I do wonder what about shouts riddles so much. It's hard to take serious anyone who has few issues about people saying some things in /yell in a MMORPG much because the way you act, you are talking about it being a life changing experience, while at the best it's a minor hurdle not worth trading all the benefits more active AH for example. (Unless you NEVER use the AH or interact with other players)

You know what happens to all the people who don't like yell on Asura? Nothing, they move on with their life. Because it's, realistically, not an issue.

If Ragnarok had 1000 players active all the time, I can assure you that all it would take for someone to start a /yell conversation was to... yell and people would answer.

In a MMORPG? No, not really. I mean, he's allowed, but no one would ever take it seriously.

If someone(not me, you kept implying it's me that's having an issue, but it's not) have an issue with yells, then realistically, it will play a role when he makes a decision because people play the game for fun etc.

Again, you keep emphasis why YOU make a decision to prefer a server, but that's irrelevant to how others make decisions. You only come out as "my preference > yours" in this discussion because all you talk about is your choice, and subtly hinting others either makes bad choice, or being a drama whore about yells.

It's hard to take serious anyone who has few issues about people saying some things in /yell in a MMORPG much because the way you act, you are talking about it being a life changing experience,

In other games yes, public chat channel is used for conversations. In FFXI not as much.

I remember back in the day when I started, one person(I forgot if he's JP, probably is) told me chatting/trolling in public shout is considered impolite. Sometimes when a conversation started in shout/yell, there's often one person that'd step up and said "Take it in tell please". There was even one LS on Bismarck had a rule "don't troll in public channel".

Compare with other MMOs, FFXI player definitely chat in public channel a LOT less often than other games. When you have played a game for years, and followed this unspoken rule for years, only to find it somehow changed in recent years, of course it could be a big deal to some people.

Jin_Uzuki

01-13-2017, 08:01 AM

If someone(not me, you kept implying it's me that's having an issue, but it's not) have an issue with yells, then realistically, it will play a role when he makes a decision because people play the game for fun etc.

If couple of lines on a screen that only pop when you zone into town play a big role and remove every advantage a big server has, then, honestly, I don't know what to tell you.

Afania

01-13-2017, 08:08 AM

If couple of lines on a screen that only pop when you zone into town play a big role and remove every advantage a big server has, then, honestly, I don't know what to tell you.

You kept mentioning this "advantage a big server has", how could I make you understand that for some people out there faster character progression/faster gil/easier gears/more PUG etc simply isn't what they play the game for.

Diavolo

01-13-2017, 08:42 AM

You kept mentioning this "advantage a big server has", how could I make you understand that for some people out there faster character progression/faster gil/easier gears/more PUG etc simply isn't what they play the game for.

They don't have to in order to enjoy the benefits of a larger server.

Afania

01-13-2017, 09:51 AM

They don't have to in order to enjoy the benefits of a larger server.

So what if someone pay $13 a month just to chat with 3 person on server, enjoys quiet server, hates politic talk in yell, and don't play the game to grind gears?

I mean, I'm talking in circles now. I support bigger server because I think it'd benefit more players as a whole. And in the end of day majority still > minority. But at least I'm well aware that nothing makes everyone happy, there will always be some of people out there that's not happy with server merge. Back then when FFXI had server merges, there were drama/unhappy people etc.

At least I'm aware of the fact that everyone is different and nothing is perfect, unlike some people in this discussion aren't, then just assume everyone will be happy ever after with merges.

I mean, my stance is, server merge is great, and some smaller server definitely needs merge. But I don't think is super big zomg kind of deal if it doesn't happen. There's always an option to transfer, after all.

Folken

01-13-2017, 11:26 AM

That's fine, but at the end of the day those people, regardless of how well they're doing, are losing out on a better experience.

This is why he keeps arguing. No matter how much Afania says NotAsura may be better for some, you keep saying his reasons aren't valid with "Nope, Asura is better for everyone."

Remove the technical hurdles from the equation (no fee, names that don't meet a certain criteria released, more ??? locations, no server lag, etc, etc)

And then you list some pretty big problems with switching to a bigger server? You're not any acting any different from Afania.

Diavolo

01-13-2017, 11:36 AM

So what if someone pay $13 a month just to chat with 3 person on server, enjoys quiet server, hates politic talk in yell, and don't play the game to grind gears?

Someone that doesn't care for the grind and hates political discussion in yells won't have much to worry about. Like one of my friends, they can hide in their mog house/garden when in town. If they're out of town, as they would be most of the time, they don't see yells. They just quieted the entire server with practically no effort. They could also, you know, download Discord or some other voice/chat service like a growing percentage of the player base and avoid FFXI altogether if they're only interested in chatting.

My American friend wanted to rip his hair out anytime politics came up in linkshells or party chats. He's put more time on Asura than I have since our move and he still has all his hair, so there's that.

But at least I'm well aware that nothing makes everyone happy

Bingo. Now, do you see how this favors the argument of pushing for transfers/merges and eliminating quiet servers when we agree that bigger is better?

If your vision for a game is to have thousands of players come together and tackle common goals, then build it. If your vision for the game then changes and makes it far more accessible, then go ahead and apply those changes, too. What we're stuck in now, however, is some half-measure where the game appears to be trying to cater to both the casual gamer and the hardcore gamer - trying to make everyone happy - while also abandoning a core design principle, one that defines the MMORPG genre. This not only results in worlds of distinctly different sizes separated by $18 paywalls, but also complicates the creation and management of content, not something you want to impose onto a skeleton crew of a development team.

I'd like to be proven wrong, but continuing to cater to smaller and ever decreasing population sizes signifies that they are aware of the consequences and don't want to stem to tide. They have FF14, after all. If you're fine with this and don't much care for the long term prospects of the game then all is well. If you want to see the game carry on for a few more years I wouldn't sit idly by while the server sizes continue to shrink. Sooner or later the comfort you find on a server with 250-300 accounts will give way to a struggling economy as the JP players realize the NA/EU crowd isn't contributing their fair share to make it all work, in effect bringing the 24/7 persistent world to a standstill.

there will always be some of people out there that's not happy with server merge. Back then when FFXI had server merges, there were drama/unhappy people etc.

That's a natural human response. The merged servers took a few days/weeks to settle in together and get used to the new world order. Despite all the attention and exaggerated claims made both in game and on message boards in regards to that first merge, what happened one year later? They merged a whole new set of servers. In other words, the ends justify the means, "you've got to crack a few eggs to make an omelette," [insert your favorite cliche here]. The servers and game as a whole was better off despite the complaints some of the louder opponents of the merges made.

At least I'm aware of the fact that everyone is different and nothing is perfect, unlike some people in this discussion aren't, then just assume everyone will be happy ever after with merges.

https://bootstheory.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/loki-sigh.gif

Diavolo

01-13-2017, 11:39 AM

And then you list some pretty big problems with switching to a bigger server?

Those aren't technical hurdles against server transfers for individuals or groups of players/linkshells, they're hurdles for larger scale shifts in populations such as server merges. Context is important.

Afania

01-13-2017, 12:53 PM

In other words, the ends justify the means

You know, you're sounding like some sort of tyrant from my high school text book now. Or stereotype antagonist from Japanese anime. Thank god you're not the FFXI decision maker working for SE, everytime dev used "the ends justify the means" as an excuse to push some design or game decision, players rage quit.

Folken

01-13-2017, 01:00 PM

Those aren't technical hurdles against server transfers for individuals or groups of players/linkshells, they're hurdles for larger scale shifts in populations such as server merges. Context is important.

None of the things you listed are unimportant to individuals/groups transferring servers.

Bingo. Now, do you see how this favors the argument of pushing for transfers/merges and eliminating quiet servers when we agree that bigger is better?

Didn't Afania say he'd be okay with merges because it maintains personal connections? I know it wouldn't bother me because it wouldn't sever any possible connections with returning players. The only issue I'd have is possible forced name changes.

bungiefanNA

01-25-2017, 01:35 PM

Aysha

01-26-2017, 12:25 PM

Ample time is not required to level a job nowadays. Log in during a Gain EXP time period for RoE, and during a double EXP campaign if you can. Find someone who is BST or BLU to take you into Reisenjima, and let them cleave mobs while you have the RoE objectives set. WIth that setup, it only takes an hour (less during double EXP) to go from 1 to 99 on a job.

It is generally expected for a player to have about 5 or so jobs they can bring to events, to cover the bases. Nobody plays just a single job anymore. RDM was outshined by GEO having more potent buffs and debuffs, and by them not being able to be resisted or dispelled.

Would like to add that you don't even need Reisenjima Access.

The problem with doing it by Reisenjima, is you will have a job on Lv99 with 0 skill, if you did 1-99 leveling there. Then you gotta stop and go get the skill, which can be annoying. But anyways...

Today, I took my BLU from 63 to 99 in about 5 hours. It was just me, and a "meh" geared THF (family member) duo. We started in Kamihr Drifts because we needed some Raaz Hides (and the Tusks were nice too!), while Gain Experience was up. We got my BLU to 86 Then it changed to Physical Damage Kills and we re-located to Cirdas and the other 13 levels in there within a couple hours.

The whole time, I was spamming a few low-level BLU spells to keep my skill leveled, and I wound up capping my Blue Magic skill before we were done (I ate skillup food).

But anyways....

I'd like advice of my own.

I have almost all jobs on Level 99 (Dancer, Ranger, Ninja, and Beastmaster are the only 4 I don't have done now), but I have almost no Job Points for any of them except Warrior, and most of the jobs are missing Group 1/2 Merits, and most of the jobs do not have much of any gear to speak of.

I assume I can't just show up to an Ambuscade wearing Sparks equipment, so surely you say "everybody plays multiple jobs".... I'm assuming you gotta at least do some work to get the relevant stuff? My question is, how much stuff does one need?

I have a full suit of Cizin+1 which covers WAR, PLD, DRK, and something else. I have the Beatific Shield+1, and a couple weapons I got out of the gobbie boxes (Anahera Sword, I think it's called, for example). I have full THF AF+1, Gendewitha+1 (but I think I'm missing a few high level spells on my WHM -- not sure). I haven't played WHM in ages anyways; I really don't know much about their new job abilities like the Afflatus ones, and I don't have any good weapons for it anyways (just sparks/homestead weapons).

The problem I'm finding, is that I'm just..... lost. I don't know what sort of progression paths there are, I know there's 3 million different "Endgame" events... there's Skirmish, Alluvion Skirmish, Delve, etc. I don't know what I can solo, what I can't, what jobs people want for what, and while I have jobs on Lv99, they are sorely lacking in gear (especially Jewlery/Capes/etc!)

I look at the AH, and the Jewelry I see there doesn't "look" very good (but then I don't really know what to look FOR) except for one piece I want for my THF mostly for solo (that nobody ever sells)...

I guess I'm just...... lost and don't know what to even think about doing next. Every time I see an Ambuscade shout, it is always "SCH/BLU/GEO" and sometimes WHM thrown in. I know absolutely nothing about playing a Scholar, and I haven't gotten my Geocolures yet (I have just been loaded down with SO much to do because of these campaigns) and my BLU just dinged 99 today (and as such is missing a boatload of spells).

My WAR is rather decent, though. Fully Mezzotinted Lekbohza, Cizin+1 ('cept the gloves, I got Macabre+1), though again jewelry blows (I've heard the Rajas Ring is still good, though?). Dunno where to find actual decent jewelry I have access to.

Nyarlko

01-26-2017, 12:40 PM

Aysha

01-26-2017, 12:45 PM

Right now, I highly suggest you take your highest ilvl job and kill dragons :3

The current Domain Invasion campaign actually lets you have a shot at getting some very nice JSE weapons from Escha-Ru'aun and top-tier gear from Reisenjima, just for "participating" (hint: means "get elvorseal status from entrance npc and be in the arena" not "hit the dragon"). Drop rates are not super amazing, but hey, its basically a shot at free GOOD 119 gear. In addition to the special campaign drops, you can still get the normal drops from the dragons, most of which are solid placeholder/niche pieces that are AllJobs and really convenient to have around. PLUS, so long as you are in the arena (w/ elvorseal status) you get kill credit towards some very useful vorseals which will help you do anything anytime you are in one of the zones.
(Zi'tah=AutoRegen+1, Ru'aun=AutoRefresh, Reisenjima=Acc+5, per tier.)

If you haven't touched DI yet, think of it as a world boss that anyone can jump in on and everyone is eligible for loot at the end.

Half of what you said is Japanese to me, lol. Vorseals? Never heard of them. Other than a few mentions here on forums of course.

I've literally done absolutely nothing in the Escha areas. So, you're saying that I just show up at Escha-Ru'aun, and get this "Elvorseal" status off the NPC? Is it free? Does it cost Silt or anything like that? etc.

Do I gotta be near the dragon? etc etc.

EDIT: So, after a bunch of digging around, finally found the info... wish SE woulda made some kind of newbie guide or something so that newbies would actually know what they're talking about, lol. And now half of the week is gone already. Ah well hope I can get at least one or two pieces.

Nyarlko

01-26-2017, 10:50 PM

Half of what you said is Japanese to me, lol. Vorseals? Never heard of them. Other than a few mentions here on forums of course.

I've literally done absolutely nothing in the Escha areas. So, you're saying that I just show up at Escha-Ru'aun, and get this "Elvorseal" status off the NPC? Is it free? Does it cost Silt or anything like that? etc.

Do I gotta be near the dragon? etc etc.

EDIT: So, after a bunch of digging around, finally found the info... wish SE woulda made some kind of newbie guide or something so that newbies would actually know what they're talking about, lol. And now half of the week is gone already. Ah well hope I can get at least one or two pieces.

Looks like you found some of your answers already on your own, which is a good thing! XD I'll still answer in case it helps someone else..

"Vorseals" are the zone buffs for RoV zones (Escha-Zi'tah, Escha-Ru'aun, Reisenjima). There are tons of 'em to collect... Each poppable "Geas Fete" NM has an associated vorseal that gets unlocked for purchase with silt from entry NPCs. There are also a huge portion which are unlocked by completing content outside of Eschas, like getting nation rank10s, completing expansion mission lines, chocobo racing, and other activities. (Suggest you reference the Escha page on bgwiki for the full discovered list if you are interested.. link here (https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Category:Escha#Vorseals)) The awesome thing about them is that they apply full strength to all of your pets and trusts and you regardless of your level! This means that if you go into Escha-Zi'tah at lv40, you get the same bonuses as if you were 99. Mobs in there range from 50-109, so this makes it the best zone to level your 2nd+ job in once you've gotten some vorseals stacked up.

Domain Invasion is totally free to participate in. I believe there is a level restriction, but don't remember what the minimum level is. The only other restriction on participation is that you have to have access to the zones to begin with.

The basic flow for Domain Invasion:
1. Talk to the npc near the entrance of the zone.
2. Get Elvorseal. The npc will offer to warp you to the dragon.
* When the dragon spawns, a 30min timer will pop up in the upper lefthand corner of your screen. If the dragon is not defeated within that timeframe, it will despawn. When it repops 15min later, it will have the same HP amount as when it despawned last.
3. Fight the dragon. :x This should go without saying, but you get nothing if the foe is not defeated.
* This is an ilvl119 open event, so any/all players who want to participate can. If you are newer to 119+ content and/or below ilvl119, then I highly suggest you keep a form of Reraise up at all times due to high damage AOEs. Trusts are callable even during combat, so take advantage of this!
*. So long as you are within the area defined by the glowy blue marker line things, you will get credit for the kill towards unlocking that dragon's vorseal when it dies. Even if you are dead when it happens.. So don't homepoint warp if it looks like others are going to be able to take it down! If the dragon is defeated, then any dead players will get a free Reraise as well.

I don't know what the population is like on your server, but on Asura, the dragons are all going down in 1-3min which makes it really easy to get kill credit right now. The campaign drops make it even better since you have a (small) chance of getting some really great gear even if you aren't able to contribute much due to gear/merits/JP.