Relic reforged +1 inaccessability of materials

[Shiyo]

Hello, for upgrading our relic reforged armors to +1 it requires materials from voidwatch.

However, voidwatch is not content that is done by anyone unless a campaign is going up, and there actually isn't any of the materials on the AH as well as no way to farm them yourself because you need lights which requires bringing 8+ people to content no one has any interest in unless a campaign is happening.

Not only are these reforged items outdated, generally not useful for many jobs, but they're also 2-4x the price of NQ abjuration gear(you could also probably pay someone to merc you better gear for cheaper, especially abjurations) but the materials needed for them aren't even available on many servers auction houses or even obtainable via your own farming or /yelling for the items.

Can something be done to fix this? Making us do VW, an event no one does, to upgrade our old outdated armor seems silly. Some of the gear is nice "stopgap" gear for returning players, or "macro pieces", but with the lack of accessbility to actually obtaining these items, very little, if any, are worth trying to get.

Can something please be done to remedy this? Perhaps update voidwatch to the current game(even scaling the mobs up) so it's scaled to ilvl and works like other content aka scales with number of players past 3 and the light system removed entirely? I don't know, but it's really disheartening to know that relic reforged armor is something I have to ignore entirely for any job I want to play simply because of the voidwatch materials required.

[Olor]

is it really that bad on Valefor? We always have materials up on Asura...

My advice is to make sure you get lots of materials when they do login campaigns with them (which they do every few months)

And buy extras on AH during login campaign.

[Shiyo]

That isn't really a solution.
This gear isn't even good, by the time a login campaign/VW campaign comes around again I'll have no use for the gear except for some niche macro pieces.

An example:
The +1 RDM boots are a nice nuking/enfeebling piece for someone new/returning. However, the cost is so high you might as well get someone to merc you higher tier gear which is cheaper and stronger.

[Obysuca]

is it really that bad on Valefor? We always have materials up on Asura...

It's bad everywhere except Asura, seeing as everyone and their galka packed into it lol Same issue happens with the abjuration gear on other servers, not enough people, so rarely any in stock and when they are, they're millions for a NQ

[Sirmarki]

I moved to Asura from Fenrir and it was breath of fresh air, actual people around, shouts, and stuff on and selling fast on the AH.

I dont know why I didn't move from such a dead server sooner. Much better gaming experience.

[Olor]

That isn't really a solution.
This gear isn't even good, by the time a login campaign/VW campaign comes around again I'll have no use for the gear except for some niche macro pieces.

An example:
The +1 RDM boots are a nice nuking/enfeebling piece for someone new/returning. However, the cost is so high you might as well get someone to merc you higher tier gear which is cheaper and stronger.

Well, sounds like you have a solution. Pay someone to merc items that are cheaper and stronger.

Really though, if there are zero items on the AH, why not shout for a few people to do VW with you? I mean, is there just no one on the server at all? You could make gil instead of spending it.

Heck, you could do VW for the items, sell them on the AH, and THEN pay someone to merc items that are better and stronger ;)

People will still buy the relic upgrade materials because a lot of relic gear is used in macros.

I mean, I know it's not ideal but they needed to have a reason for people to do VW so that people can get empyrean weapons. So, that's why relic items use VW items. To help give extra incentive to do voidwatch.

And voidwatch is super easy - you can literally take anyone with any kind of gear - heck they don't even need to be 99 to contribute. Get some folks who are trying to get from 90 to 99, pop some monsters, get them levels and maybe some gil... use a few weakening items if you need to... a group of 4-6 players should have no problem hitting procs. And if you get bad luck with procs, just kill it and pop another RQ....

I mean I don't see a reason not to say, add the items to ambuscade list of stuff to buy - but even if they did I'd feel like just doing VW would be the better route.

I mean, isn't the point of the game to play it? So why not do content to get the items you need?

[Shiyo]

It was a comparison, it's silly that you can get a much stronger item for potentially less gil than relic reforged because the materials required for them are from content NO ONE does and are highly inaccessible to players because of the lights system.

You're not really going to get the VW drops without finding people to come proc for you, which isn't something that actually happens without them being close friends or mules. VW's drop system was designed around doing them with an 18 person alliance and their drop rates on items(and the lights system) shows this very well.

It's also painfully boring to sit there and try to proc something that dies in 1 or two weapon skills in high tier gear.

The entire point is, relic +1's materials are extremely inaccessible and from content no one does, as well as not being farmable(unles a campaign is going on, which are bad design in themselves) and the materials required or their form(s) of obtainable them need to be re-evaluated to fit the current state of the game.

It's that or completely redesign VW to fit the current state of the game - small lowman groups. Don't keep a form of content(and make it drop items required for other stuff you might and probably do need on certain jobs) in the game that's designed around 18 man alliances while the rest of the entire game isn't. It makes no sense and is just frustrating to try to get items from that content if you do happen to(painfully) need items from it.

[Olor]

okay, cause any time I've shouted for voidwatch I've gotten a few people pretty quick... so that is not my experience. Maybe you should consider switching to a more active server.

[Shiyo]

That also isn't a solution, costs money, and isn't a place I want to be.
It also doesn't fix the problem of "proccing things that die in 1-2 ws that pose no challenge isn't fun".

I have not tried shouting, but VW materials are not really accessible. Have you actually done VW and tried to farm the drops? I did VW back in the day, and you didn't exactly easily farm anything that dropped from them, you're talking 100+ kills to get a single material for a single reforge +1 piece.

[Stuzey]

Is it really that bad? I came back to FFXI early last year, after quitting in early 2013, I remember farming VW for the relic upgrade gear on DRG and being able to proc, I don't think i had much in the way of ilvl gear and can't remember struggling too much to get drops solo. Chapters were more of a problem for me back then...

Maybe it was the lack of ilvl gear that helped, as the fights certainly lasted longer than 1 or 2 weapon skills (I remember doing voidwrought, pil, akvan, hahava and celaeno for sure).

But, you are right, it is outdated content, so maybe they could increase the drop rate a smidge

[Nyarlko]

Cells boost lights and bypass need for TH and/or procs for the most part (other than white for KIs, which is easily done during campaigns.)
Displacers neuter the mobs and make every fight other than Provenance ones {Easy Prey}, plus they now stack to 99.
Prep work = profit. Just like most of this game, and any other RPG.
Increased drop rates would be nice, mainly to allow for soloer's to get their own reforge mats, but I honestly don't think we can expect any sort of genuine adjustments to VW.. And honestly, the amount of content that the vast majority of 119relic would be useful for as more than a macro piece is pitifully small and out of date to begin with, so you should be looking at them as only macro pieces to begin with. Even Escha-Zi'tah T1 armor sets tend to have better stats for general use than reforges.

[Shiyo]

Yes, which furthers my point of the content is dead and irrelevant outside of HMP's/riftcinders and relic reforge materials.

Which is why the ability to obtain your relic +1 reforge materials should be re-evaluated to match current design of the game and the power levels the geat has(very low) compared to most other much easier to obtain gear.

[Nyarlko]

Yes, which furthers my point of the content is dead and irrelevant outside of HMP's/riftcinders and relic reforge materials.

Which is why the ability to obtain your relic +1 reforge materials should be re-evaluated to match current design of the game and the power levels the geat has(very low) compared to most other much easier to obtain gear.

That applies to the vast majority of pre-SoA content though. For instance, no one bothers farming sky gods for the gear now. If someone's killing Seiryu, its for the seal to turn into tatters to pop the Escha-Ru'aun version. When was the last time you were excited about a weapon drop in Abyssea? XD No functional difference there in comparison. Reforges were not meant to be full-timed, they are placeholders to give you the ilvl until you get something better and/or macro pieces for their unique traits. Many of the macro pieces are for abilities that aren't used frequently during combat as well, so you can often times get away w/ leaving them at the 109 stage if gil/mats are hard to come by. If that's not enough benefit for you, then don't worry about 'em. ^^

People need to stop telling others that reforges are a good starter path for 119 IMO. The amount of time, effort and gil required to get them is not a small investment, and there are a lot of other options for starter 119 gear at this point which require less prep work to obtain. Lots of reforges are great and worth getting, but should probably be back-burner'ed for a bit if it puts you in the position of halting progression otherwise in order to get them.

[PristineChicken]

There are others which are must-have pieces, though. Dancer AF Body Reforge is a just under a 20% increase in your Waltz Potency, assuming you have no other Waltz Potency gear. Relic Body Reforge at 119 is ACC+21, and MACC+37 for Violent Flourish. Empyrean Reforge, despite the lack of accuracy, is +10% Dual Wield at 109, and losing 10 to 15% hit rate can more than be made up by the increase in number of attacks, and on "easier" content, where you don't need 1200/+ accuracy to cap hit rate, can be an amazing DPS increase.

[Nyarlko]

There are others which are must-have pieces, though. Dancer AF Body Reforge is a just under a 20% increase in your Waltz Potency, assuming you have no other Waltz Potency gear. Relic Body Reforge at 119 is ACC+21, and MACC+37 for Violent Flourish. Empyrean Reforge, despite the lack of accuracy, is +10% Dual Wield at 109, and losing 10 to 15% hit rate can more than be made up by the increase in number of attacks, and on "easier" content, where you don't need 1200/+ accuracy to cap hit rate, can be an amazing DPS increase.

Out of your examples, only the AF body sounds like a "must have" (macro) piece. The relic body is replaceable with several pieces, notably the "free" Ambuscade set, as well as stuff like Herculean gear. There is also a mere macc+2 gain over the 109 version (which is quite affordable), so 119'ing it doesn't seem like that great a deal until you are in content with higher risk of death if caught mid-macro due to lowered ilvl. The empy body would actually hurt your TP return as you only need DW+36% to cap delay along with gear/magic haste, DNC gets DW+30% natively plus another 5% from the 550 JP Gift, and we're not even taking Haste Samba into account. Samba actually pushes you pretty far past cap (even w/o merits), so DW from gear will primarily result in lower tp/hit gained and increased tp feed to your target, neither of which is actually a "good thing". Still worth 109'ing for a macro piece for Striking Flourish maybe, but I'd personally hesitate on investing in the 119.

In contrast, using BST for example, there are extremely limited justifications for 119'ing the relic body and legs since AF are provide a nearly identical benefit for Reward, the head is a super niche macro piece, and the feet are replaceable by the Ambuscade cape. Only the hands are a must-have due to the wonky way that jug pet levels work, and even then, you can get away w/ only 109 for all of them for quite a while.

If all you need relic for are the augments for macro pieces, then weigh in that there is no increase in effect between 109>119. If you are only using an ability every 5-10min and you are able to pre-buff with it, then I would decline to upgrade and spend my time/effort/gil elsewhere. I'm sure there are other jobs with similar poor prospects for reforges if hoping to full-time any of them.

I think we were focusing on issues regarding relic reforges specifically, since AF is pretty cheap/easy to 119 and empys have the additional roadblock of Vagary clears being required. Relic is the only set that has to depend on VW for mats, which I can see being an issue on a low-pop server. I definitely would not complain if drop rates for reforge items was increased, but since I remember the devs saying even that much was too hard to do at this point, I rather doubt that any sort of actual changes to the content like the OP mentioned has a greater-than-zero chance of happening. I think the biggest/best change we can hope for would be if they could allow trust tanks to /fume. ^^;;

[detlef]

Correct, this thread is specifically about ilvl 119 Relic armor. But the focus shouldn't be about how 109 armor is easy to make and often provides the same enhancements as 119 armor. Rather, the focus should be on how generally weak the pieces are outside of job abilities and job-specific spells and therefore the ease of acquisition should be adjusted accordingly. We're generally not using them for melee/TP/nuking anymore so figure out a way to make them easier to get for all players.

[Shiyo]

That's exactly my point, thank you!

The 119 relic armor is not very good outside of macro pieces, and since they're kinda a direct upgrade to af reforge in some jobs cases(Some paladin/dark relic reforge is basically just a slightly better dt/tp piece per slot than af reforge is) they should be much, much more accessible for a new player who isn't ready for escha yet, but wants to work towards something they can easily upgrade for a small stat increase to help them progress through end game, assuming ambuscade is not giving you gear for job(s) you want to play.

Right now, relic IS that gear but it's completely inaccessible. You are better off just skipping it entirely and having someone merc you higher tier gear which is not only cheaper, but TONS better! This feels bad and is lame, though imo.

I want the VW drop rates to be substantially increased or the materials required for the +1 reforge to be changed entirely to something more balanced around the stats that the relics give. a 3-4m item per relic(not even counting the other stuff, it ends up being like 4-5m per relic piece) is not right for the power these items give.

Please re-evaluate the required materials for these old, outdated armors to match their current power SE. That is what I'm asking.

[Zhronne]

And honestly, the amount of content that the vast majority of 119relic would be useful for as more than a macro piece is pitifully small and out of date to begin with
Not really. Granted there are hardly many Relic pieces you'd fulltime, but there are several useful pieces still.
Saying "they're just macro pieces" as if they were completely unrelevant items is a bit ungrateful imho.
Also, things are likely going to change soon when the likely +2/+3 reforged relics will be released.

I don't expect adjustments to VW either, but it's sad to see how SE thinks the availability of mats has been fixed thanks to "monthly campaigns" =/

[Shiyo]

I don't expect adjustments to VW either, but it's sad to see how SE thinks the availability of mats has been fixed thanks to "monthly campaigns" =/
Campaigns have done more harm than good and if they are not adjusted or re-evaluated soon they will cause unfixable long term problems to the game.

[Nyarlko]

Not really. Granted there are hardly many Relic pieces you'd fulltime, but there are several useful pieces still.
Saying "they're just macro pieces" as if they were completely unrelevant items is a bit ungrateful imho.
Also, things are likely going to change soon when the likely +2/+3 reforged relics will be released.

I don't expect adjustments to VW either, but it's sad to see how SE thinks the availability of mats has been fixed thanks to "monthly campaigns" =/

Saying that relic armor reforges are primarily useful only as macro pieces does not in any way declare them to be irrelevant. Lots and lots of reforges from all three classes offer unique improvements, BIS for their related JA's, etc. but how many of them are going to be useful outside of their macroed-in uses? I'm not being ungrateful since I do see plenty of use out of mine, and I do recommend to others to get theirs for macros, but I'm also going to be realistic about how much use we're going to get out of any of them.

I don't support the idea of encouraging new/returning players to prioritize obtaining reforges before other more useful gear options. Don't forget there are more than a few not-simple pre-requisites to unlocking reforging to begin with. ^^;; It's not only the availability or cost of upgrade mats that need to be considered when making recommendations. There are other paths to 119 that are still viable after all.
The only issue being that *shock* you might need to play with others in order to get them. XD

There also hasn't been a peep about further upgrades to relic or empyrean armors, only artifact so far. Personally, not really expecting further stages for relic/empy any time soon, and maybe not ever. I would honestly prefer brand new gear rather than further upgrades to the existing sets, mainly because there is already a lengthy process to 119 them and really would rather not have to deal with that process getting even longer.

I'm betting we're gonna see some significant acc/macc on the new AF +2/+3 stuff and new augs, but nothing spectacular otherwise. Basically bring them up to Ambuscade gear level "stat vomit", plus augs. There are plenty of JAs/spells that have no macro pieces, notably the lv96 SP abilities, so this could be a way to get augs out for those so AF matches up closer to relic/empy sets. This would allow them to fill the role of "starter gear" that some are asking for, and new augs for JA/spells that don't have any other options would make them desirable for non-newbies who are leaning more towards the min/max mindset of endgamers.

[Shiyo]

I guess we're just going to leave relic +1 requiring drops from content no one does for gear that's heavily outdated and thus extremely overpriced for it's cost:reward ratio and rely on campaigns to fix broken content?

[Jakuk]

Least you can actually get the armour, albeit at high cost, I've been locked out on Emp+1 for ages as NO ONE does Vagary on Phoenix.

[Diavolo]

I guess we're just going to leave relic +1 requiring drops from content no one does for gear that's heavily outdated and thus extremely overpriced for it's cost:reward ratio and rely on campaigns to fix broken content?

Been that way for too long now, unfortunately. There's a Voidwatch thread buried here somewhere that got a lot of attention over the duration of 9 months or so calling for change and despite a few words from two or three community reps within that thread (Availability of HMPs, Riftcinders, Riftdross (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/48253-Availability-of-HMPs-Riftcinders-Riftdross)) not a whole lot came of all that feedback.

[Zeargi]

This will be slightly on and off topic:

As a SMN, I want us to gain control of our spirits via the Rage and Ward commands. As most of the triggers in VW are going to be BLM. This would give people other options besides having to hunt down a BLM for it. My idea is that the spirits will cast has normal if left alone, but you can force another spell and give access to -ga spells via the Rage menu, and the Light Spirit could finally cast Protectra/Shellra via the Ward command.

But on topic now there are a few options, but they mostly rely on trusts.

1.) /fume needs to be usable by all combatants regardless of focus
2.) Trusts need to be able to be dismissed and re-summoned at anytime
3.) The Trust WSs/JAs need to be added to the list of things that can proc if they aren't already. (COR Shot, Automation JAs, Special WS, etc.)
4.) The hardest and not likely to happen, there needs to be a BLM VW/Abyssea Trust. Much like Robel-Akbel this trust needs to be able to understand the random triggers and cycle through them, as well as the BRD spells need to be add to Ulmia or Joachim.

These are just a few things that I pulled off the top of my head. I'd much prefer having real people, but I haven't been able to get people to do anything at all the last few days, so I'm all good for having options. I feel that some of my ideas might be a tad extreme, but they can be fine-tuned.

[Jin_Uzuki]

Tangentially related to this thread, but given the latest news, have devs ever considered switching to weekly campaigns, instead of monthly?

I feel it would solve a lot of problems, people would rotate events every week, more events would get done, instead of people spending 1-2 months doing the same things. It would still dictate the way people play to a certain degree, but it would feels much more flexible. (And let's be honest here, campaigns are never going away)

[Shiyo]

There should be zero campaigns and instead 5 minutes of dev team used to fix content that doesn't function properly anymore.

[Diavolo]

There should be zero campaigns and instead 5 minutes of dev team used to fix content that doesn't function properly anymore.

http://i.imgur.com/qKS68nL.jpg

[Jin_Uzuki]

There should be zero campaigns and instead 5 minutes of dev team used to fix content that doesn't function properly anymore.

Campaigns are not going away ever. You can deal with it... or well, deal with it.

Obvious Voidwatch needs fixing, but there is an issue with campaigns pigeonholing everyone toward 1-2 events the whole months leaving events that don't feel worth doing without campaigns (WoH, Voidwatch) completely abandoned for months.

[Shiyo]

WoH?
WOE is worth doing and fine without a campaign. It doesn't need a campaign at all.
VW doesn't function without a campaign because it's designed to be done with 18 people(lol).

Also not sure why you said "campaigns aren't going away" then stated you agree they're trash.

[Nyarlko]

Also not sure why you said "campaigns aren't going away" then stated you agree they're trash.

Probably because it doesn't really matter if we like them existing or not, they are not getting removed at this point.

[Jin_Uzuki]

Also not sure why you said "campaigns aren't going away" then stated you agree they're trash.

Because I live in reality. You can complain about something that will never happen or you can deal with it and ask for it to be adjusted in ways that it becomes less intrusive and flows with the game better. Devs are never going to remove content, especially something like campaigns.

Most people are not going to bother with Walk of Echoes (Welp), they'd rather wait for a campaign. It's the same principle as CP, you can CP during non campaigns (I do it myself!), but the amount of people interested into it compared to the people that feel like "they are wasting time, better just wait for campaign" is far less.

[Shiyo]

Weekly rotating campaigns are a big improvement, I agree.

[Camate]

Greetings,

Thanks for the feedback about the materials needed from Voidwatch to upgrade relic armor to item level 119.

To start, I’d like to share the development team’s thought process about item drops from battle content. Essentially, obtaining rewards is split into two different categories: shared rewards that you lot on with other party members and personal loot drops. Voidwatch, as many of you are all aware, falls into the latter category. In the former situation, you could be lotting against 17 other people when an item drops, and personal rewards have been balanced the way they are at the moment since you do not need to worry about losing the item because of a roll. There is also a possibility that all members of an alliance can obtain the same item at the same time. Therefore, increasing the drop rate of these materials could potentially flood the market.

Considering the stats on the upgraded relic gear, the development team feels there is proper balance and think that addressing the drop rates directly would be difficult to accomplish without disturbing this balance.

With that said, however, they have made Voidwatch much more accessible for solo players/low-man groups and removed a lot of the hurdles for participating in this content. While many players have chosen to focus on Voidwatch only during campaign periods due to the light alignment boosts, it’s possible to farm these materials by using just a single cell, and we encourage you to use these if you are finding that there are no materials on the auction house.

[Domille]

It's always funny to hear them talk about "balance" when it's quite clear there is nothing even close to resembling balance.

To say that relic 119 is so good that it should be harder* to get is eyerollingly ridiculous.

[OmnysValefor]

Camate,

The devs need to realize VW is no longer fun in any way, and is merely a chore. Outside of campaigns, and even during, this is left to RNG.

Unlike most events, a single person can go several hours in VW and get no or little progress.

I once soloed 60 Qilins, during campaign, and got 18 total HMP from two pouches.

[Mithlas]

Camate,

The devs need to realize VW is no longer fun in any way, and is merely a chore. Outside of campaigns, and even during, this is left to RNG.

Unlike most events, a single person can go several hours in VW and get no or little progress.

I once soloed 60 Qilins, during campaign, and got 18 total HMP from two pouches.


This is exactly the issue right here - no one does this content in alliances and in huge amounts anymore. Especially outside of campaign.
The devs need to realize it is dated content. :[
I don't understand any balance issues from having more players in 119 Relic armor. Anyone else?

[Nyarlko]

What damage could there be if the upgrade materials DID flood the market? As others have said, their primary use nowadays is being consumed in the reforging process which awards r/ex equipment. Would it really be a bad thing for reforged relic 119 armor to be more accessible to the playerbase? I'm rather curious about what the dev team's perceived risks would be in making a change to the drop rates. Is the decision based solely on the items' usefulness in the relic reforging process, or are the handful of synergy recipes (for non-ilvl gear) that also use the reforging items also being weighed in? As someone w/ capped synergy on 2x characters, I have absolutely no objections to any increases in reforging item availability, as the affected recipes are all loss synths of obsolete gear to begin with. ^^

Also, to be clear, we are only asking for increases in the drop rate / availability of the following specifically named items:

Voidwrought Plate / Kaggen's Cuticle / Akvan's Pennon / Pil's Tuille / Hahava's Mail / Celaeno's Cloth

As a 110+ leathercrafter, I would LOVE it if you increased drop rates on still-otherwise-relevant drops like Sealord Skin, but that is not what we are asking for in this thread. Just in case there was a minor miscommunication about the subject and items similar to the skin were being included in the decision. If they were, please reconsider this request but for only the items named above.

[Elexia]

The main problem is, while not a "problem" by general definition is regardless of what players perceive, game balance is seen completely differently from the eyes of the ones actually running it and maintaining it.

For example if us players have our way and what we feel is "balanced", everything would be handed to us, we'd have everything done within 3 hours of glameplay and there would be no need to ever create new content ever again because, well, for "balance" we'd want the market flooded with everything we want or need, so if there's a surplus of everything..why even bother making new content or adjusting any content ever again?

For the developers and realistically as common sense dictates, you don't want to flood a game with high tier items (insert your own personal opinion) or change the progression path too significantly, something that XIV suffers from and people are very vocal about for a reason. So yeah it sucks there's a limit on the items due to player population, but whether it has a monetary value or not, you'd still be flooding the game with more items than anticpated.

Believe it or not, developers of MMOs actually have a "set amount" of items they want to get introduced and circulated over x period of time. So while we as players want it and want it now, there does indeed have to be a balance in that regard, whether we like it or not. That's why they tend to nerf or buff drop rates, not to mess with us but because it's either too fast or slow based around their outline. VW is definitely outdated and still heavily RNG, but at this point in time, if they just outright buff drops, there's still monetary value to some of the drops, even more so with how low the player population is, so economy is always a concern developers have which again, whether or not we like it..is a thing.

The most I can see done is introducing the items in other content overtime, but not to a 'flood the market' amount.

[OmnysValefor]

The flipside is that the devs they call 119 reforged powerful and it no longer is. If relic comes to Omen, okay, but relic is nice for the ability enhancement mostly.

So relic reforged will be a step towards powerful gear that in its final form will be difficult/expensive/tedious to obtain. Easing the lower accessibility does no harm.

[Nyarlko]

The main problem is, while not a "problem" by general definition is regardless of what players perceive, game balance is seen completely differently from the eyes of the ones actually running it and maintaining it.

For example if us players have our way and what we feel is "balanced", everything would be handed to us, we'd have everything done within 3 hours of glameplay and there would be no need to ever create new content ever again because, well, for "balance" we'd want the market flooded with everything we want or need, so if there's a surplus of everything..why even bother making new content or adjusting any content ever again?

For the developers and realistically as common sense dictates, you don't want to flood a game with high tier items (insert your own personal opinion) or change the progression path too significantly, something that XIV suffers from and people are very vocal about for a reason. So yeah it sucks there's a limit on the items due to player population, but whether it has a monetary value or not, you'd still be flooding the game with more items than anticpated.

Believe it or not, developers of MMOs actually have a "set amount" of items they want to get introduced and circulated over x period of time. So while we as players want it and want it now, there does indeed have to be a balance in that regard, whether we like it or not. That's why they tend to nerf or buff drop rates, not to mess with us but because it's either too fast or slow based around their outline. VW is definitely outdated and still heavily RNG, but at this point in time, if they just outright buff drops, there's still monetary value to some of the drops, even more so with how low the player population is, so economy is always a concern developers have which again, whether or not we like it..is a thing.

The most I can see done is introducing the items in other content overtime, but not to a 'flood the market' amount.

I, as a player, would not want the situation you are proposing, which would be a non-balance game world. There is a vast difference between requesting an easing in the difficulty of a required process compared to nerfing the game wholesale. I don't think anyone here's asked for the items to be put on NPC vendors for cheap... We don't want zero-difficulty content, only an adjustment to reduce frustration levels caused by miniscule drop rates.

The only monetary value for the directly related drops are connected to the reforging process. There is no current crafting value in the upgrade items since the synergy recipes they are used for produce obsolete non-ilvl equipment. There should be no harm done if the drop rates were increased for the upgrade items only which would bring the benefit of aiding newer/returning players in getting their required macro pieces more easily.

I understand that the devs have different target numbers when it comes to content, but when you are talking about rather old content that is being repurposed for newer uses, those target numbers should be re-examined to make sure that they should or should not be adjusted. That is a standard part of development/maintenance for this type of game after all.

[Urmom]

Devs still balancing drops around the idea that some content you can get more drops doing with 18 people vs lotting against 17.... ha cmon most new content either is pt only or punishes you severely for bringing more people and most old content people gunna solo anyways. You guys looking thru the rose tinted goggles of yesteryear where huge lss with tons of extra bodies were everywhere

[Zeargi]

After doing these fights for a few days with the Rubicund and Cobalt Cells, I have to say that this isn't enough.
My set-up was: SMN/SCH with August, Iroha II, Shantotto II, Apururu, and Koru-Moru
24 against Kaggen without using the cluster to weaken him: I managed to trigger his weaknesses on a few fights with being lucky that my Spirit or I had the Black Magic, it happened to be an Avatar BP, Provoke, or Flash. Even on my best of fights I managed to get 1 Heavy Metal Plate, not even the item I wanted. On a few Fights August got taken out because I was trying to wait on my Spirit to cast something. There needs to be something more than those cells or having to wait for a campaign to get these items. And that's not even counting the fact that some NMs are completely immune to certain triggers, at least in Abyssea you could set the window to avoid those.

I stand by my original ideas of a VW/Abyssea BLM to trigger Weakness, Allow for swapping of Trusts, add the BRD Triggers songs to Ulmia, add all the trusts WS to the trigger list, and allow the /fume command to be used by ANYONE on that enmity lift. It not about winning it's about hitting those weaknesses. I can easily wipe the floor just about any Mob without using those clusters, but that's not going to get me anything.

[Mithlas]

After doing these fights for a few days with the Rubicund and Cobalt Cells, I have to say that this isn't enough.
My set-up was: SMN/SCH with August, Iroha II, Shantotto II, Apururu, and Koru-Moru
24 against Kaggen without using the cluster to weaken him: I managed to trigger his weaknesses on a few fights with being lucky that my Spirit or I had the Black Magic, it happened to be an Avatar BP, Provoke, or Flash. Even on my best of fights I managed to get 1 Heavy Metal Plate, not even the item I wanted. On a few Fights August got taken out because I was trying to wait on my Spirit to cast something. There needs to be something more than those cells or having to wait for a campaign to get these items. And that's not even counting the fact that some NMs are completely immune to certain triggers, at least in Abyssea you could set the window to avoid those.

I stand by my original ideas of a VW/Abyssea BLM to trigger Weakness, Allow for swapping of Trusts, add the BRD Triggers songs to Ulmia, add all the trusts WS to the trigger list, and allow the /fume command to be used by ANYONE on that enmity lift. It not about winning it's about hitting those weaknesses. I can easily wipe the floor just about any Mob without using those clusters, but that's not going to get me anything.

Exactly - even with cells the drop rate is horrendous.

However, I will note this: they did an adjustment awhile back where trusts will do the same emote the player does. So, if you use /fume, every other trust will also use /fume. I think that is a possible correction they added for weakness changing?

[Zeargi]

Exactly - even with cells the drop rate is horrendous.

However, I will note this: they did an adjustment awhile back where trusts will do the same emote the player does. So, if you use /fume, every other trust will also use /fume. I think that is a possible correction they added for weakness changing?


I've not seen them use the emote when I did /fume but if that's the case, that would be an amazing thing


Edit: I just went outside and did a test. Indeed, some of the trusts do mimic the /fume emote... The problem - August, Gessho, and Mnejing do not. I'll try to see if I can do Kaggen again with Amchuchu and see if that works, but there definitely needs to be changed to have all the trusts be able to /fume then.

Edit 2: So Far - August, Gessho, Mnejing, AAEV, Cid, Aldo, Prishe (II), Maat, Tenzen(II), Selh'teus, Nashmeira (II), Luzaf, Excenmille [S], Lehko, Lilisette (II), Ingrid II, Balamor, Chacharoon, Darrcuiln, Morimar, Teodor, AAGK, Abenzio, Babban, Gilgamesh, Lion, Iroha, Fablinix, Shantotto II, Ovjang, Rosulatia, Mumor II, Ullegore, King of Hearts, Ulmia, Arciela (II), And All the Geo-Trusts can't use /fume at all

Edit 3: Just fought Kaggen again - Amchuchu as the tank, I used /fume while engaged and Disengaged and couldn't get the weaknesses to shift. Trusts can't trigger that.

[Jakuk]

I've not seen them use the emote when I did /fume but if that's the case, that would be an amazing thing


Edit: I just went outside and did a test. Indeed, some of the trusts do mimic the /fume emote... The problem - August, Gessho, and Mnejing do not. I'll try to see if I can do Kaggen again with Amchuchu and see if that works, but there definitely needs to be changed to have all the trusts be able to /fume then.

Edit 2: So Far - August, Gessho, Mnejing, AAEV, Cid, Aldo, Prishe (II), Maat, Tenzen(II), Selh'teus, Nashmeira (II), Luzaf, Excenmille [S], Lehko, Lilisette (II), Ingrid II, Balamor, Chacharoon, Darrcuiln, Morimar, Teodor, AAGK, Abenzio, Babban, Gilgamesh, Lion, Iroha, Fablinix, Shantotto II, Ovjang, Rosulatia, Mumor II, Ullegore, King of Hearts, Ulmia, Arciela (II), And All the Geo-Trusts can't use /fume at all

Edit 3: Just fought Kaggen again - Amchuchu as the tank, I used /fume while engaged and Disengaged and couldn't get the weaknesses to shift. Trusts can't trigger that.

So basically unique character models can't /emote

[detlef]

Just checking to cover bases, but you waited 5 minutes to /fume right? I also thought they had added something to allow us to /fume even if trusts were holding hate.

[Jakuk]

Just checking to cover bases, but you waited 5 minutes to /fume right? I also thought they had added something to allow us to /fume even if trusts were holding hate.

Rhapsody in Mauve dropped it to 30 seconds.

[detlef]

Rhapsody in Mauve dropped it to 30 seconds.Wow, if I knew that then I must have forgotten. Thanks.

[Zeargi]

So basically unique character models can't /emote

Some. Ingrid/Shantotto/Mumor 1 can Fume, but their 2 forms can't. Joachim can fume but Ulmia. Which would make since since she doesn't take offensive actions, but Koru/Cherukiki can do it. What about Trion and Excenmille Adult - they're unique and can do it. Apururu can even do it and she's a UC Trust. It just seems to be weird that so many can but others can't.

There's so many things that can be done to fix this, but it doesn't seem to be on their radar

[Nyarlko]

Even if you manage to get a trust to /fume, they don't seem to count towards the weakness reset. -_-;; I'm still trying to figure out what the point was of updating the system last year so they would copy your emotes because of this.

[Mithlas]

Some. Ingrid/Shantotto/Mumor 1 can Fume, but their 2 forms can't. Joachim can fume but Ulmia. Which would make since since she doesn't take offensive actions, but Koru/Cherukiki can do it. What about Trion and Excenmille Adult - they're unique and can do it. Apururu can even do it and she's a UC Trust. It just seems to be weird that so many can but others can't.

There's so many things that can be done to fix this, but it doesn't seem to be on their radar

Darn. :[
I had never tried with trusts - I had just assumed when they added that that it would work. I apologize.

SE, can we get a confirmation on if this is working as intended?

[svae]

FFXI is far from balanced in about every aspect. The devs hard-on's for sch geo blm pld rune has defeated the purpose of having any other playable jobs. What if you say wanted to raid pup? Well unless your a stated job above it's not going to happen. A big reason ffxi had so many quit. Why gear dragoon if you will never use it besides solo? That is the devs Balance at it's best. No point even asking them to do anything. They are armchair quarterbacks who think they know the game. Maybe the devs should play and see just how balanced things are. Sit in mhaura and see how many other jobs you see. We all pay to play. Should be able to play what you feel without having to be excluded. Drops rates for vw is horrible and they know it but it won't change because it would make sense.

[Zeargi]

I actually know a few Dragoons that do lots of end game stuff, and I don't leave SMN unless I HAVE to. The other jobs have merits and some need to be fixed for sure, but those things don't have anything to do with the fixes needed for Voidwatch.

[Aysha]

I don't really know all that much about VW as I was never able to do it (I don't have a Linkshell), but I do know that even the freaking KEY ITEMS are impossible to get.

I killed the Voidwatch mob in both Saruta and Saruta [S] probably like 5-8 times now, and despite the campaign going on and using the Cobalt Cell to get the KI drop as best as it can get (100%), no KI for either me or a friend.

Considering that it doesn't even drop all that much decent stuff... we kinda just put it on a back burner, because there's other stuff we could be doing.

Popping the same mob over and over and over again and only getting mostly junk isn't all that fun. And I can only imagine what the higher tier VW mobs are like. But then, I'll never know, because yanno, no KI to even progress through the VW system....

[Nyarlko]

I don't really know all that much about VW as I was never able to do it (I don't have a Linkshell), but I do know that even the freaking KEY ITEMS are impossible to get.

I killed the Voidwatch mob in both Saruta and Saruta [S] probably like 5-8 times now, and despite the campaign going on and using the Cobalt Cell to get the KI drop as best as it can get (100%), no KI for either me or a friend.

Considering that it doesn't even drop all that much decent stuff... we kinda just put it on a back burner, because there's other stuff we could be doing.

Popping the same mob over and over and over again and only getting mostly junk isn't all that fun. And I can only imagine what the higher tier VW mobs are like. But then, I'll never know, because yanno, no KI to even progress through the VW system....

The KI drops from VW aren't related to any light other than white iirc. Basically, you either need a white proc OR VW light campaign to be able to get the KIs reliably. From past experience with helping fellow returnees, I remember the KIs being guaranteed during campaign, but only for the group lead / popper (other members "can" get the KI as well, but leader "will" get it.) So, to be sure that you get one during campaign, make sure you rotate leader between all members who need 'em.