Crafting as a Whole - Kits, Keys Items, and Gripes

[Zeargi]

Many have likely seen the push and pull in the general forums about my feelings with the current grounds of crafting.

I personally would like to see the crafting kits 70, 80, and 90 added with a hard cap at 100 for them. Giving people the option to progress where in some cases they can't, would be amazing.

As I've suggested, I feel that these kits also need to be tucked away behind the RoE, requiring the completion of Craft related quests to gain access to them. The reset timer could be JPM forcing people to not rest on their laurels if they want to continue that route.

I can't speak for other crafts because my main focus has been Cooking, but personally I find the region locking of certain food stuff also annoying. Most of the time, I can't grind enough in a region to maintain the control and the Northlands and most of the regions on Bastok's side often fall to Beastman's control.

Which brings me to my next item:
Please add more items in general to the Monster Rearing section.
As such: Derfland Pears can only be purchased if that region is controlled by players. A good solution is to add a Goobbue to the list of rearing mobs so that you can purchase the pear and others like it to the players and those that take the time to raise a monster.

But even then the Rearing Catalog should be expanded to help more crafts: Add Skeletons ( 1.) this could be horrifically funny if they made mini-Skeletons, 2.) It would give players something of the Macabre to add to their place.), Ghosts, Ruzors, etc. Include Beastmen like the Goblins (Which would make me happy because I could finally find those stupid Onions D:<) Lamia, Trolls, Gnoles, Imps. You could have a whole venue of things that could be included and the Beastmen could offer combo KIs for crafting like Woodworking and Bonecraft, or Smithing and Goldsmithing.

Maybe require the ability to unlock Beastmen raising is to raise a bunch of other combos of monsters like how Monstrosity requires you to combo things to unlock stronger Monsters.

These are just some of my ideas, and these can be retool or how ever to make them work.

Like I said, Cooking has been my craft and I can only speak second hand of peoples inability to get items, but I know I've been struggling for a long time to find things I wanted to make.


Also, I want to address the second part of crafting which is the harvesting part: There need to be something that can be done about the whole fatigue part of gathering materials. You don't face that problem when slaughtering enemies. I understand that bots were/are a problem, but there needs to be something to combat the fatigue if someone wants to have just a harvesting day.

[Sirmarki]

Derfland Pears can only be purchased if that region is controlled by players.

Simple solution is to grow them in your mog house. From 6-8 pots you can harvest stacks with ease.

[Zeargi]

That's not really a solution, because you have no guarantee that they will be what pops out (Mind you some of the recipes do only have those pears, but I've no clue if those lists are actually complete or not) and if you have a certain Mogification too many pots will shift it if you have them on the bottom floor. Plus, what if you can't login for a time? All your hard work is lost because they'll die. I mean, I'm about to go out of town for a week, and no clue if the Wi-fi at my hotel is gonna be enough to let me actually play this. >_>; And let's be honest, who really wants to add more clutter to an already filled inventory with pots?

[Nyarlko]

I'll leave the kits alone for now XD

Mog Garden though... It doesn't really make much sense to be able to raise beastmen of any sort. We already have a cactuar though, so goobue shouldn't be a problem. ^^ I'm all for adding to the list of raise-able critters in general. I was quite sad that we don't get tigers, birds (of any sort), bats, vermin, etc.. There are still tons of families that haven't been touched and no reason not to continue adding that we have been made aware of as far as I know.

There are also a few low level items that are really only relevant for MG, and should be made available somehow.. Like Revival Roots -_-;; Or lower the requirements to get the upgrade KIs for furrows... 512 harvests for rank7 is exceedingly brutal, especially compared to the way the rest of the garden works. If you don't know that you should be growing fast growing trash and harvesting once per day along with the rest of your garden, then you are looking at what.. about 6 months? A year? There are no warnings or explanations in-game that furrows work differently in practice than the other nodes, so the majority of players who are "doing it wrong" don't have any reason to know otherwise.

[Olor]

I just think crafting should be such that anyone can get to 100 without a whole lot of nonsense at this point in the game's life. Honestly you shouldn't need to rear a specific monster or anything. It's irritating and boring enough to craft as it is without travelling to multiple cities to get ingredients for crafting recipes that result in an item with zero profitability.

Crafting always kind of sucked but it's just ludicrous now in terms of the grindy pointlessness of leveling it. Yes, you can benefit once you've gone through that gauntlet of awfulness, but not enough to make the grind worth it really, especially when you can more easily make money farming currencies etc.

Some crafts, yes, you can make a ton of gil, but the time to grind them up... *shrugs* rather claw my own eyes out I think.

[Zeargi]

I totally just want to see a baby Gnole or even a Soulflayer :p Not to mention that you could have the Beastmen be like a Boon to the garden with each having a special talent for one of the harvesting point. Like if you raise a baby Goblin to a Moblin you can use it's talent to get higher tier items from mining that had to do with Goldsmithing, or Raising a Yagudo would focus on harvesting from the ground instead of logging. As it stands you're basically raising Chacharoon though story elements and you have Susuroon and other NPC come work for you. But allowing them to be raised can also open an avenue of KIs that could allow for other items to be purchased, such as the Wild Onions, Goblin Masks, Poison Flour, etc from the Goblins or The Merrow scales or Lamia Skin from raising a Lamiae. Each Beastmen has some type of item that is related to one craft or another. The Lamiae drop Chimera Blood which is used in Elixir Vitae a level 88 Alchemy item, likewise the Imps also drop their wings for the exact same item.

[Manque]

I'm fine with crafting as it is now, minus the kupo shield gutting markets (which may be fixed by upcoming crafting 'relic'). Kits should be usable up to 70 cap, so level 60 compatible, at the most imo.

Warning, personal opinion:
Part of the fun of crafting for me was hunting down mats, ge

[Zeargi]

Warning, personal opinion:
Part of the fun of crafting for me was hunting down mats, ge

And I don't mind that either, but sometime you have limited time and can't go on an 8-10hr hunt for a low dropping item for leveling up your craft or don't have the other skills to harvest or fish for the things you need. I'm trying to express an outlet that can give people the most amount of options possible. It takes time to raise a monster as well, but at least you know that if you only had an hour; you could come feed it and interact with it and know that you at least made some type of progress.

Most people seem dead set against the prospects of adding kits, which is fine. It's in the same vain that I felt that Trusts were unneeded in Dynamis and Abyssea. SE still added them and gave people the choice to use them or not.

Giving more rearing mobs give people the chance to get items more quickly to make things they want, and kits give people the chance to plow through things if they feel that crafting is far too boring. When it boils down to it, this is a game and no one should have to feel upset or grieved. They're a point of relaxation and to remove stress. We want crafters, we need them to make some of the better items in the game. So, what does it matter if it took them less time to get to the same level of crafting that you and I have? We can take pride that we did it the long way, much like people did with the Promyvion clear, level capped fights, etc. It doesn't invalidate the achievements you've made.

Or even take it a step further: Make it so a crafting kit 70, 80, or 90 could sub in for an ingredient that's missing, but keeps the properties of the previous kits to make HQing items impossible. There's so many brilliant people that play this game, I know there has to be more idea that could fill a vault.

[Nyarlko]

I'm fine with crafting as it is now, minus the kupo shield gutting markets (which may be fixed by upcoming crafting 'relic'). Kits should be usable up to 70 cap, so level 60 compatible, at the most imo.

Warning, personal opinion:
Part of the fun of crafting for me was hunting down mats, ge

I fully expect the relic shield to impact the current market far more than what a handful (at most) of characters with a Kupo Shield were able to accomplish. The way the devs were talking in the FP.. I'm personally quite certain that it will be an "absolute" upgrade to Kupo Shield. "Strictly Better Stats" = More impact on what HQs will be possible = More impact on the market.
At least it is going to be a supreme PITA so you won't have to worry about the market crashing while we all grind our shields out ^^;;

[Zeargi]

I'd still like to see something done about crafting as well as harvesting fatigue. There shouldn't be any reason I can't harvest things all day if I want to.

I check frequently for the Cheval Salmon and the Gugru Tuna for the sublime sushi, but they aren't there in most cases. But today, I thought I'd try to get a few guild points to get my missing KIs, and they're asking for the Salmon Croupe.... Which requires the Cheval Salmon. So even if I wanted to just fish, my limit is 200. It's just frustrating I can't get or do what I want with crafting. The system is very much out of touch, get rid of fatigue.

Fishing should also get a chance for skilling with how fast you input the commands while playing the mini-game.

[Vashkoda]

I totally just want to see a baby Gnole or even a Soulflayer :p ... The Lamiae drop Chimera Blood ....

Given the origin of soulflayers and lamiae (which may be a spoiler for you so I won't go into detail), I don't see them adding these to "monster rearing". Even other beastmen could arguably have "souls" (that goblin kid in Jeuno who tried to unite humans and goblins), and to say you are going to raise one in a garden could be seen as cruel. :p



There shouldn't be any reason I can't harvest things all day if I want to. There are still some profitable things out there, namely Ebisu rod fish, but for example, people are also now farming hmps with chocobo digging. You could argue that there are faster ways to make gil, but I can see why they wanted to use a limit so that it doesn't get out of control.


I check frequently for the Cheval Salmon and the Gugru Tuna for the sublime sushi, but they aren't there in most cases. ...they're asking for the Salmon Croupe... It's just frustrating I can't get or do what I want with crafting.

Salmon can be fished in the stream right outside Sandy; it will yield either salmon or trout, so it's not that hard to fish up a stack in 10 minutes. And the salmon croute recipe yields 1-4 croute per synth, and the NPC will only let you turn in 12, anyway, so this shouldn't have been an issue. As for tuna, I get 0-2 a day from my net in mog garden on each character. My mules are overflowing with tuna for when I actually bother to sit down and make sushi. This really shouldn't be an issue either.


Fishing should also get a chance for skilling with how fast you input the commands while playing the mini-game. I don't get what you're saying here. Obviously you are skilling by playing the arrow game. Is the rate of skilling not fast enough for you? With the rings, the synth belt, and especially the food made specifically for skilling fishing, this craft was by far the easiest to level.

[Jakuk]

Simple solution is to grow them in your mog house. From 6-8 pots you can harvest stacks with ease.

Simpler solution is to remove "Region" specific items and make them all available.

[Zeargi]

Given the origin of soulflayers and lamiae (which may be a spoiler for you so I won't go into detail), I don't see them adding these to "monster rearing". Even other beastmen could arguably have "souls" (that goblin kid in Jeuno who tried to unite humans and goblins), and to say you are going to raise one in a garden could be seen as cruel. :p

I know their origins, but even given that, they still have to procreate to continue to pose a threat, otherwise they'd never survive the first year of conflict (I have a theory of how they do it, but I'll leave that for another day). It's shown that many of them have emotions, and so it's not outside the realm of normality that you could be doing a kind service of raising one of these Beastmen to be a kind and loving being. One that you send out into the world to show that peaceful relationships can exist. (As well as give me KIs to make things better :D)



There are still some profitable things out there, namely Ebisu rod fish, but for example, people are also now farming hmps with chocobo digging. You could argue that there are faster ways to make gil, but I can see why they wanted to use a limit so that it doesn't get out of control.

There are much more effective ways to get the plates now that they're a prize offered in Ambuscade. And if someone wants to flood the market with fish, let them. It'd rather them be able to fish all day and actually have supplies on the AH then set some limit. And kudos to them to have the stomach to fish all day, because I despise it (But I hate fishing IRL and every video game). Beside, A person could in theory flood the market with Dynamis coins/Alexandrites/Plutons/Etc, which is far more game impacting than someone being able fishing/log/harvest/mine all day.




Salmon can be fished in the stream right outside Sandy; it will yield either salmon or trout, so it's not that hard to fish up a stack in 10 minutes. And the salmon croute recipe yields 1-4 croute per synth, and the NPC will only let you turn in 12, anyway, so this shouldn't have been an issue. As for tuna, I get 0-2 a day from my net in mog garden on each character. My mules are overflowing with tuna for when I actually bother to sit down and make sushi. This really shouldn't be an issue either.

Thank you kindly, but I know where the fish comes from, I just don't have the skill level to catch them reliably, I was only rank 8 when I tried (Currently 10). And no offense to this, but I shouldn't need to have an army of mules to get the supplies I need to craft. I have 1 mule to hold the extra stuff I have (Abyssea +2 Items, Pops, Dyna Stuff, etc). It would be different if I could pull the nets up once every 2-4 hours or so. It being a once a day thing, that shouldn't be seen as everything is fine.


I don't get what you're saying here. Obviously you are skilling by playing the arrow game. Is the rate of skilling not fast enough for you? With the rings, the synth belt, and especially the food made specifically for skilling fishing, this craft was by far the easiest to level.

What I'm talking about is like the SMN's skill route, where every action has a chance to offer a skill up. The higher the fish's skill cap over your current skill rank the better the chance of skilling up with each input. Fishing is the only craft that actually requires interaction, doesn't have skill tomes, and has a chance of finding nothing even with multiple castings. It wasn't so bad when you could get a fish's gauge low and still pull them up; however now, you almost certainly will break the line unless it's 100% depleted. And isn't the Synth belt a guild point item? Can I trade in guild point items for Fishing if I'm contracted with Cooking? Also, I'm not aware of this fishing skill up food, could I get the name of it? (Edit: I found it, and it says that the Fisherman's Feast was an event item, making that point kind of moot.)

[Vashkoda]

I shouldn't need to have an army of mules to get the supplies I need to craft. I have 1 mule to hold the extra stuff I have (Abyssea +2 Items, Pops, Dyna Stuff, etc). It would be different if I could pull the nets up once every 2-4 hours or so. It being a once a day thing, that shouldn't be seen as everything is fine.

It's free fish - what more do you want? And FYI, before the bonanza, I only had 1 mule, and yet I still had enough tuna lying around that I had to start having friends hold them for me. I don't even know why you're complaining about the tuna, I find the sole much more annoying to collect (and they even stack!).



Fishing is the only craft that actually requires interaction, doesn't have skill tomes, and has a chance of finding nothing even with multiple castings. It wasn't so bad when you could get a fish's gauge low and still pull them up; however now, you almost certainly will break the line unless it's 100% depleted.

It also doesn't require crystals, and consistently uses only 2 mats--a rod and bait. If you use a lure, you don't even lose it after each use, and as long as you don't attempt to fish up anything with a "terrible feeling" message, you are unlikely to break your rod. And you should be trying to reduce a fish's stamina to zero before you reel it in anyway; as you mentioned, the more effort you put into catching a fish, the more likely you are to skill (if you find yourself not having enough time, use the rings that build up your endurance or reduce the fish's stamina). I get what you're saying with the changes, but my point is that these are different crafting types, and it's not appropriate or even necessary to try to apply the rules for one to the other.


And isn't the Synth belt a guild point item? Can I trade in guild point items for Fishing if I'm contracted with Cooking? Also, I'm not aware of this fishing skill up food, could I get the name of it? (Edit: I found it, and it says that the Fisherman's Feast was an event item, making that point kind of moot.)

Since you don't seem to be aware of them, look up the Records of Eminence of Fishing (general) and Fishing (tenacity). The belt and food are among the many rewards (along with several other helpful items). Btw, you definitely get enough of the food to last you to 110 skill (I even ended up giving a ton away).

[Nyarlko]

I like the idea of additional chances for skillup based on playing the arrow minigame well. ^^ If there are worries about floods of fishermen depopulating the waters due to increased ease of leveling, then it could still be limited to 1x skillup given per cast, basically just adding more checks done to ensure that you get one and possibly adding to the value. (Something like 100% chance of skillup on a catch that you hit every arrow and/or an extra +0.1 skill gained.)

As one who's modern fishing experience has been limited to fishing in SSG for quest items, failing miserably and hitting my fatigue limit w/in 10min, anything that could be done to ease the difficulty of the lower levels would be greatly appreciated. (1-70 maybe guaranteed skillups like crafting is now?)

[Nyarlko]

It just took me FIVE REAL LIFE DAYS to fish up a Norg Shell on a mule for his Sahagin Key.. (Which is needed to get past the stupid door in SSG so I can unlock Impulse Drive.) It took me 5 days because he had 0 fishing skill, and fatigue was kicking in after 10-20 casts per day. -_-;;; I don't really understand the details about modern fishing that well, so I'm assuming that fatigue is connected to skill in some manner..

My question now is, would it really be a bad thing to remove the gathering fatigue system entirely? Is there really any economic risk remaining nowadays if there were no caps on casts/harvests? When the system was originally implemented, it was to combat RMT activity, but how many RMT are still hanging around? I'd imagine that the influx of gil from uncapped fishing/mining/etc would be less than what even sparks have made available, so are there any HELMF items that are a higher profit/time ratio than selling sparks gear? If not, what is the justification for the system remaining? We now have access to most materials thru Mog Garden, so why not remove the fatigue system to make actual gathering less unattractive?

[Aysha]

Fishing up certain items in SSG creates more fatigue than normal. This is because back in the day, you had lots and lots and lots of bots fishing down there, flooding the market with certain things, like Coral Fragments. SE wanted Coral Fragments to be next-to-impossible to get, because for some reason, they wanted Bonecrafting to be absolutely ridiculous to levelup. Now, it's Smithing that gets the shaft, lol.

Nowadays, I never see anybody fishing, so I think that they could lax up on the rules concerning fishing just a little, especially when a lot of those ingredients don't make anything relevant to Lv99s anyways.

[Diavolo]

When the system was originally implemented, it was to combat RMT activity, but how many RMT are still hanging around?

Lots and they blend in quite easily these days.

[detlef]

It just took me FIVE REAL LIFE DAYS to fish up a Norg Shell on a mule for his Sahagin Key.. (Which is needed to get past the stupid door in SSG so I can unlock Impulse Drive.) It took me 5 days because he had 0 fishing skill, and fatigue was kicking in after 10-20 casts per day. -_-;;; I don't really understand the details about modern fishing that well, so I'm assuming that fatigue is connected to skill in some manner.Isn't that 10-20 cast fatigue only present when you are below level 20 or something?

[Aysha]

Isn't that 10-20 cast fatigue only present when you are below level 20 or something?

They were fishing in SSG.

Certain items cause a LOT of fatigue in there, because of all the RMT bots that used to flood Coral Frags on the market.

[Nyarlko]

My point is that I wasn't even aiming for an actual fish and it was still miserable. Items such as "Norg Shell" which are directly related to quests and/or missions, should not be that painful to acquire.

[Diavolo]

My point is that I wasn't even aiming for an actual fish and it was still miserable. Items such as "Norg Shell" which are directly related to quests and/or missions, should not be that painful to acquire.

They usually aren't, but I'm with you on that one. There are still quests/items and other trivial aspects of the game that can use some minor quality of life type adjustments to better reflect the times.

[detlef]

They were fishing in SSG.

Certain items cause a LOT of fatigue in there, because of all the RMT bots that used to flood Coral Frags on the market.I don't recall specific items or types of fish causing more fatigue than others.


My point is that I wasn't even aiming for an actual fish and it was still miserable. Items such as "Norg Shell" which are directly related to quests and/or missions, should not be that painful to acquire.Was your mule less than 2 weeks old and below level 20? If so that fatigue is working as intended. Obviously that restriction was put in place during a time when botting was a lot more profitable so it really has no reason to exist anymore. Maybe your gripe has to do with fishing fatigue and not about the quest?

Now, if your mule was level 20 then I sympathize. I still think that you should be able to hit 200 fish per day if you meet the proper requirements but I haven't fished since Dipper Yuly was a thing.

[Nyarlko]

I don't recall specific items or types of fish causing more fatigue than others.

Was your mule less than 2 weeks old and below level 20? If so that fatigue is working as intended. Obviously that restriction was put in place during a time when botting was a lot more profitable so it really has no reason to exist anymore. Maybe your gripe has to do with fishing fatigue and not about the quest?

Now, if your mule was level 20 then I sympathize. I still think that you should be able to hit 200 fish per day if you meet the proper requirements but I haven't fished since Dipper Yuly was a thing.

My mule was 99DRG (118ilvl) and around 9 months old. ^^ So that explanation doesn't apply. I know that it's almost assuredly related to my skill starting at 0 when the zone has a higher skill cap, but still ><;; "Junk" should be EASIER to get than "fish".. Junk doesn't try to throw off your hook after all. lol The only other thing I can think of would be if there was a catch limit based on location and I was just hitting that wall, but I've never heard of having to rotate fishing spots while targeting the same fish. :/

[Folken]

because for some reason, they wanted Bonecrafting to be absolutely ridiculous to levelup.

I'm pretty sure they just didn't want people to make money from fishing as it was easily exploitable. The bonecraft thing was just a coincidence.

[Aysha]

I'm pretty sure they just didn't want people to make money from fishing as it was easily exploitable. The bonecraft thing was just a coincidence.

Well, see, there's a complete lack of viable items (or was at the time) around that level.

If Bonecrafting wasn't the target, then why were there no reasonable skillup recipes 80-100?

Half of them take Coral Fragments, and the other half takes junk from other crafts that are not easy or cheap to get (Darksteel, etc).

It is still somewhat annoying, because it takes hours of farming Wivres to get anywhere Lv80+. And even then, you hit ANOTHER wall when you need Raaz Tusks (not hard to get, but the mobs hurt) or Aht Urhgan Brass (lol).

And then, after that, have fun with those dragon talons... things that ONLY come off of NMs, BCNM, or rarely out of the Mog Garden.