urgendly needed Reform of the chest picking game

[Nyclia]

I understand that chest picking for items like "Fisher's rope" and "Culinarian's torque" has to be a game. But if we have to guess number by ourselfs or calculators on the net, SE should atleast give us the chance to guess it down to 1 number 90% of the time.

I witness that the hunches/hints really often leave you a choice of more than 5 or 6 numbers. And compared to the rare drop chance of 4% of the items you/i aim for, this game model is so damn out of date. And really frustrating.

So if SE is wanting us to do events like this i beg them: Please reform this minigame. Make it common for us to find the right number.

Thank you!

[Nyarlko]

At the very least, remove 100% redundant hints from what's possible.. If I get "You have a feeling the second number is 6" then I should never see "You have a feeling the second number is even" right afterwards. -_-;;;

[Manque]

That's part of the fun/intrigue. Yes, it can be painful, but given the power of the torques in particular, it makes sense.

[Nyarlko]

That's part of the fun/intrigue. Yes, it can be painful, but given the power of the torques in particular, it makes sense.

Getting duplicate hints is in no way fun nor intriguing. Nothing out of the boxes is useful for combat these days, no reason not to give the math whizzes a break and remove the non-hints at least.

[Nyclia]

Yes please, remove the double hints! SE shall implent an algorithm, that blocks hints or hunches, that don't help us towards the final correct number. The aim should be to help us player to open the lock. Not to kill our nerves.

It doesn't help when you get a range of numbers as a hint, but it's just the range of number you already know and it doesn't help you at all... .
A useful addition would be, if you get "One of the digits is 5" and it's 55, that you get a hint, that both can be or are 5. On this hint you think that "only" 1 number can be 5.
Also when you know its either 16 or 18, the hint "the second number is even", or "the first is odd" shouldn't appear.
And they should remove: "You were unable to glean anything from anything from your examination of the lock." That's no support.

I hope this threat does help us on that matter.

[Vae]

If you go thf, you get unlimited hints with keys, you can open any and all boxes 100% of the time, with some effort, so don't count on any change.

[Nyclia]

How many keys do you want to keep with you? How many do you want to synthesis, if you can, when the world support is low? Or what, if killing mobs with thief takes long than killing as a mage?
I don't feel like targeting ever next mob, when doing a Stonega II helps as good. I have Thief since September 2004. But doing this with Red Mage is more efficient.
And all i want is a fair system to help us open the lock. Why is that such a problem? And why do people support the old system? It is so outdated and everyknow knows it.

[Vae]

Because there are more important things. (we) already did it. now (you) get to suffer through it like (we) did. (You) get entitled to everything being easier. Priorities.

[Nyclia]

Priorities... .
If you use that as a killer instrument nothing will change and you can stop playing.
Hallelujah.
The fight versus extremism and against war has priority. Let's stop playing then! ^^*

[Vold]

You just have to open enough chests to understand the mini game. I open quite literally 90% or more of my chests. Sometimes the hints just aren't there. Sometimes it comes down to learning how the system usually works which means alot of failures. Like for example, "first number is either 2,3,4" and "second is 7,8,9" well then in that case I go with 47 because I have learned that quite commonly the correct answer is going to be the last digit for first digit and the first digit for second digit. It might be 38, it might be 29. It depends on the other hints. In particular, the odd and even hints. Another example is after a hint or two I sometimes decide I have enough hints and start my guessing at the mid way point. My last hint was between 20 and 30 so I choose 25 and I get a higher hint, I go 29. Then 27. Then hit my mark at either 26 or 28 with two guesses left. It depends how many guesses I have. It's a gamble, but it usually pays off and I don't waste chances on useless hints. I could give a dozen examples but really it's just better to learn through experience. But I can say for certain that the chests I rarely fail to crack, all probably had the FRICKIN TORQUES I WANTED #%#@$^$%&

[Catmato]

If you go thf, you get unlimited hints with keys, you can open any and all boxes 100% of the time, with some effort, so don't count on any change.

I thought keys sometimes failed and wasted a chance.

Edit: wiki half agrees with fails


Multiple tools may be used, however there is a low rate of success after the first.

Source (http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Treasure_Casket#Opening_a_Treasure_Casket)

[vienne]

The mini-game isnt hard at all, I rarely cant open a chest. Feels unnecessary to make it easier.

[Jin_Uzuki]

Wait, are we talking about chests that drop from normal mobs while exping or dungeon caskets?

[Sirmarki]

Wait, are we talking about chests that drop from normal mobs while exping or dungeon caskets?

You can only get the KI gear from the brown chests you have to unlock, in the old school areas.

[Catmato]

Wait, are we talking about chests that drop from normal mobs while exping or dungeon caskets?

Considering chests and coffers in dungeons don't give hints, it should be safe to assume we're talking about treasure caskets that drop from mobs.

[Nyarlko]

Wait, are we talking about chests that drop from normal mobs while exping or dungeon caskets?

GoV/FoV boxes. The ones with a sometimes impossible hint system. Hints like "last digit is 7" followed immediately by "last digit is odd." ><;;

I believe that adjusting the algorithm to eliminate sequences like my example is all that the OP (and myself) are asking for.

[Nyclia]

I understand the system a bit better now.
But that's the point. Sometimes the hints just aren't there.
But when i know that the first number is either 7, 8 or 9, then i don't need another hint,
that tell me, the combination is greater than 70. That counts for almost all of the combo.
The system just needs a little overhaul. Some little intelligent, to just not give out the unuseful hints. :/
And why the hell can't i glean any information sometimes? That option is just unnecessary.

[Domille]

Some boxes should require guessing.

If every clue was progressively useful, you would never need more than 3. That makes it uninteresting... You need to be able to fail once in a while.

[Aysha]

Some boxes should require guessing.

If every clue was progressively useful, you would never need more than 3. That makes it uninteresting... You need to be able to fail once in a while.

"Once in awhile". lol.

It seems that every stupid chest in Sky only gives you 4 chances, and 3 hints are not enough when you almost always get redundant hints, which wastes one of your precious chances.

Nearly every chest will do something like this:

"Second digit is 4, 5, or 6."
"Second digit is even."
"The combination is 70+."

Uh, okay, I've got a 1-in-6 chance of guessing it. nice.

Or my personal favorite:

"One of the digits is 6."
"The second digit is 6, 7, or 8."
"The first digit is even."

Okay, that could be 66, 67, 68, 26, 46, or 86. But with 4 chances, I only get 1 guess.

Now, if the Sky chests gave 6 like other areas' chests do... well that would be different.

[Domille]

There's tricks to it, usually when they give you shit clues like that, its a double number. IE 66.

Whenever it's possible, you think you got a redundant clue "one of them is 6" and then "the second digit is" the first clue was the first number. Not foolproof, but again, with 3 progressive clues it would be impossible to fail. Can't have that.

Put in a little effort for your item.

(ive gotten every single chest item in the game, twice, every torque, every skill+ even the gear that used to be useful)

You can also flat out guess and when you guess, you get a "free" clue with your guess. If possible clues haven't narrowed your field sufficiently, throw out a random "54" and you'll get that field cut in half "high or lower than 54". Sometimes this is the better mathematical option than a clue.

Also, as previously stated, when you go on THF you get 1 additional clue 100% of the time. And additional clues if you're desperate.

[Nyarlko]

There's tricks to it, usually when they give you shit clues like that, its a double number. IE 66.

Whenever it's possible, you think you got a redundant clue "one of them is 6" and then "the second digit is" the first clue was the first number. Not foolproof, but again, with 3 progressive clues it would be impossible to fail. Can't have that.

Put in a little effort for your item.

(ive gotten every single chest item in the game, twice, every torque, every skill+ even the gear that used to be useful)

You can also flat out guess and when you guess, you get a "free" clue with your guess. If possible clues haven't narrowed your field sufficiently, throw out a random "54" and you'll get that field cut in half "high or lower than 54". Sometimes this is the better mathematical option than a clue.

Also, as previously stated, when you go on THF you get 1 additional clue 100% of the time. And additional clues if you're desperate.

The complaint is not for the "seemingly redundant" hints, but for the ones that 100% redundant (like my example above.) I've got no problems with the system as long as each hint actually eliminates at least a few possibilities, but it's very annoying and unfun to see 2-3 in a row that do absolutely nothing to help. At the very least, we should always be able to reduce to a maximum of two possibilities regardless of the number of hints available. If we fail a 50/50 choice, then we can just chalk it up to bad luck.

[Domille]

If you get "one of the numbers is 7" and "the second one is odd" very high chance its *seventyodd* and a surprisingly high chance its actually 77. But you already took too many clues.

It's been a very long time since i had to hunt a torque, but failures are exceedingly rare (less than standard 5% fails) They never(rarely) give fully redundant clues, you just immediately assume you got screwed.

When you get the "one number is this exact number" you no longer need any clues to solve the box. You can immediately begin using math to guess the box. Any guess will give a better reduction than any clue could statistically give. It takes a little luck and you have to 60/40 instead of 50/50 that's where the 5% fails happen.

[Nyarlko]

If you get "one of the numbers is 7" and "the second one is odd" very high chance its *seventyodd* and a surprisingly high chance its actually 77. But you already took too many clues.

It's been a very long time since i had to hunt a torque, but failures are exceedingly rare (less than standard 5% fails) They never(rarely) give fully redundant clues, you just immediately assume you got screwed.

When you get the "one number is this exact number" you no longer need any clues to solve the box. You can immediately begin using math to guess the box. Any guess will give a better reduction than any clue could statistically give. It takes a little luck and you have to 60/40 instead of 50/50 that's where the 5% fails happen.

I have gotten "The second number is 7" followed immediately by "The second number is odd". It is absolutely possible that the system can spit out 100.0% redundant hints. It is not an assumption that one can get screwed over, it's a fact. (I also always finish every box that I start, even if the final pool is 5+ options. It's always possible to actually get lucky and randomly guess correctly.) And no, getting one exact number does not guarantee success. You need at least 3x more guesses after a precise hint to guarantee success. If you don't get the exact number early enough, you can't rely solely on halving to give you the answer.

Please try to understand that what I'm suggesting is not a request to make every box 100% guaranteed solvable. I am only asking for the algorithm to be changed to exclude 100% redundancies from any given sequence. No hint in any given sequence should be allowed to reduce the possibility pool by 0%.

[Aysha]

If you get "one of the numbers is 7" and "the second one is odd" very high chance its *seventyodd* and a surprisingly high chance its actually 77. But you already took too many clues.

It's been a very long time since i had to hunt a torque, but failures are exceedingly rare (less than standard 5% fails) They never(rarely) give fully redundant clues, you just immediately assume you got screwed.

When you get the "one number is this exact number" you no longer need any clues to solve the box. You can immediately begin using math to guess the box. Any guess will give a better reduction than any clue could statistically give. It takes a little luck and you have to 60/40 instead of 50/50 that's where the 5% fails happen.

60/40?

I'd ask for you to please do the math again.

Let's say that you get a box with 4 chances, and the *first* happens to be the exact number (btw, it never tells you WHICH digit the number is).

Let's say it says this:

"One of the digits is 7."

Well, okay, these following numbers can be the combination:

17
27
37
47
57
70 - 79
87
97

That's 17 combinations it can be. Again, there is no hint that says "Second Number is 7" or "First Number is 7" (or at least it is so rare that in all of the chests I've ever opened I've never seen it). It's always "One of the Digits is...."

If we do what you suggest, and you got 3 chances left (we're talking about 4 chance chests), you can cut that number in half by guessing the middle (76). This brings us to 8 combos left and 2 guesses remaining. You can cut that in half again by guessing the other middle (72 or 77) which leaves you with 4 possible combos left with 1 chance remaining. This gives you a 25% to guess correctly.

The BEST-CASE scenario, is that you get "perfect hints", like "One of the digits is 9" and "The combination is 86+."

Then you're down to 89, and 90-99. And yes, a lot of times, it will be 99, but yet I've seen plenty that are not.

The only time you can stop taking clues, is when you have Chances Left x2 Combinations left.

For example:

6 Chances Left
"Second Digit is Even."
"One of the Digits is 7."

Right here, you should stop taking clues. This is the only time you can do so, because you have the following:

70
72
74
76
78

You can easily solve this with only 4 chances remaining; try 74, and then either 70 or 78 depending on if it's higher or lower and you're guaranteed success.

BUT, getting a non-redundant "Odd/Even" and "One of the digits is..." is rare. I'd have to say probably 1 out of every 10 chests will do this.

[Teraniku]

on the 5 attempt chests I can open about 75%, 6 attempt, that gets raised to about 90% like Vold said, it's about learning the game. Some times, If you are lucky, you can get it with 3 clues, and use the last 2 guesses to enter numbers. For Example I've gotten "First number is 3,4,5" "Second number 7,8,9", 1st number is even. So your 1st enter guess is 48 (It's either right, Higher or lower) Sometimes the clues are all over the place, and you get lucky, sometimes you don't, I think it's fair for the most part.

[Nyarlko]

on the 5 attempt chests I can open about 75%, 6 attempt, that gets raised to about 90% like Vold said, it's about learning the game. Some times, If you are lucky, you can get it with 3 clues, and use the last 2 guesses to enter numbers. For Example I've gotten "First number is 3,4,5" "Second number 7,8,9", 1st number is even. So your 1st enter guess is 48 (It's either right, Higher or lower) Sometimes the clues are all over the place, and you get lucky, sometimes you don't, I think it's fair for the most part.

None of your examples are 100% redundant. Your sequence is absolutely fine and I don't think anyone here has any issue w/ that type. It's the absolutely useless hints w/in a sequence that I take issue with and feel that the algorithm should be adjusted to prevent them from occurring. If the third hint in your sequence was instead "between 31 and 73", that would be 100% redundant. That's the type of hint I would like to see removed from the possible sequence.. If a hint does absolutely nothing to reduce the number range, then it should not be allowed to occur in the first place. The guessing game is pretty simple mathematically, so I am inclined to believe that it would actually be a rather simple task to introduce a check between steps to eliminate redundancies from the possible hint pool.

[Vold]

None of your examples are 100% redundant. Your sequence is absolutely fine and I don't think anyone here has any issue w/ that type. It's the absolutely useless hints w/in a sequence that I take issue with and feel that the algorithm should be adjusted to prevent them from occurring. If the third hint in your sequence was instead "between 31 and 73", that would be 100% redundant. That's the type of hint I would like to see removed from the possible sequence.. If a hint does absolutely nothing to reduce the number range, then it should not be allowed to occur in the first place. The guessing game is pretty simple mathematically, so I am inclined to believe that it would actually be a rather simple task to introduce a check between steps to eliminate redundancies from the possible hint pool.
That is a waste of a hint that seems only there to lower your chance at success. But I can say without a doubt that if not for those crap hints, I would open near 100% of my chests without issue. The only fails would come with 4 chests. 5 and 6 chests would be 100%. But I get that not everyone is a wiz at chests because they didn't farm a dozen items or more from them, totaling dozens and dozens of hours opening chests. As successful as I am at them, helping others to improve their chances affects things very little when my success goes to near 100% in the process. You still need the RNG to grace you with what you are looking for. Sometimes it will take hundreds of chests...I'm sure I've had a time or three when I failed to open and the item I wanted was lost with the failure, dooming me for the next hundred chests.

I don't want to discourage anyone from farming them but it can be very rewarding to finally see an item appear in the chest. We don't get a lot of chances for that "f**k YES DOGGY" feeling these days. But even with chests you sometimes can't enjoy the fruits of your labor because I have gotten drops in under 10 chests :cool: I won't complain about it. The system will make things right on the next item I farm....