All Ambuscade sets except SMN/BRD/WHM set have ACC+ what's the deal?

[Dieth]

HQ Sets Acc+

190 war
190 sam
0 brd Why?? My WHM just wants to Hexa strike, my Bard wants a reason to finish it's 30,000 alex.
210 thf
190 blm

[Zeldar]

Well, they don't have acc+ because they are mage jobs. Silly question. The only reason this months has acc/attk on it is because it has BLU on the set. Did you see PLDs asking for cure potency/cast time on their pieces, or refresh?

[Dieth]

So everybody gets accuracy but Bard and Whitemage and Summoner. I know there's more than just me that melee's on these jobs.

As a PLD using the ambuscade set, I have other pieces for cure pot/cast time and <3'd the -DT, but I got accuracy too.

Show me another gear set that is "as" attainable as Ambuscade's set that has that much Acc for BRD/WHM/SMN. >(Doesn't require random augs)<

[Jakuk]

WHM, SMN and BRD are not intended to melee, as simple as that.

Every other set has at least two jobs on that were/are intended to melee on.

[Zeldar]

LOL Jakuk, don't post that on the whm forums...it will start a war. I agree 100% ......these jobs aren't meant to melee, though SMN has to if they have Nirvana. If you are just messing around melee'ing on these jobs and love it that much, get skirmish gear and augment it with melee path.

[Jerbob]

If these jobs "aren't meant to melee" then why do all of their relic-type weapons require the player to be in melee to gain full benefit? Why are they granted job-specific weaponskills instead of spells? Why does WHM get melee-oriented clubs fairly often (eg. Oboro) instead of more typically useful weapons? Why does Reisenjima equipment receive melee augments? The list goes on.

This isn't me asking a rhetorical question, it's a genuine lack of consistency. I personally find melee to be extremely tedious and boring, but to see these threads and then see people argue the opposite when people want mage relic-type weapons to be more "mage-y" is very frustrating.

I get that BLU is on this set and that is probably the reason for the accuracy, but that doesn't really answer the question that's really being asked.

[Zeldar]

If these jobs "aren't meant to melee" then why do all of their relic-type weapons require the player to be in melee to gain full benefit? Why are they granted job-specific weaponskills instead of spells? Why does WHM get melee-oriented clubs fairly often (eg. Oboro) instead of more typically useful weapons? Why does Reisenjima equipment receive melee augments? The list goes on.

This isn't me asking a rhetorical question, it's a genuine lack of consistency. I personally find melee to be extremely tedious and boring, but to see these threads and then see people argue the opposite when people want mage relic-type weapons to be more "mage-y" is very frustrating.

I get that BLU is on this set and that is probably the reason for the accuracy, but that doesn't really answer the question that's really being asked.

I believe all of their RME weapons require mages to be in full range to get the benefit is really just an oversight on SE's part. They fixed it for blm, now they need to give WHM TP for curing tbh.

They are granted job specific WS IN ADDITION TO, not instead of spells, because all jobs are given job-specific weaponskills.

WHM gets melee-oriented clubs for the same reason BLM can equip some scythes: just an added bonus so you can solo some exp on WHM if you really want to. That doesn't mean mages are MEANT to melee, no more than a DRK is MEANT to be your go-to magic damagein a party simply because they can nuke.

Reisenjima has melee augments because all the gear shares the same 3 stone paths. I augment my Colada and get avatar perp cost -5. Does this mean I should go BLU/SMN?

In no real situation should a whm or brd be melee'ing in a party, and this game is meant to be played in a party. You see DDs complaining about the crippling effects of enfeebles on them when the get close to the mob. I don't want my mages silenced, paralyzed, slowed, doomed, bio'd, or amnesia'd: stand back and let the melee jobs melee.

And to those of you with the "well I like to solo on whm" and "whm can melee just fine" arguments, we have had these recently on the whm forums. Please don't rehash them.

[Jakuk]

If these jobs "aren't meant to melee" then why do all of their relic-type weapons require the player to be in melee to gain full benefit? Why are they granted job-specific weaponskills instead of spells? Why does WHM get melee-oriented clubs fairly often (eg. Oboro) instead of more typically useful weapons? Why does Reisenjima equipment receive melee augments? The list goes on.

This isn't me asking a rhetorical question, it's a genuine lack of consistency. I personally find melee to be extremely tedious and boring, but to see these threads and then see people argue the opposite when people want mage relic-type weapons to be more "mage-y" is very frustrating.

I get that BLU is on this set and that is probably the reason for the accuracy, but that doesn't really answer the question that's really being asked.

Put simply because they went for uniformity instead of basing the bonus' etc on the jobs actual role. This has been the way they've done it from the start of FFXI.

All jobs are capable of meleeing, albeit far less capable than others, but predominately WHM, SMN and BRD are not meant to melee on anything actually worthwhile, thus the majority of the gear is based around that aspect of the jobs this set included.

[Jerbob]

The relic-etc weapons have been an "oversight" for an awfully long time, despite a large number of people questioning it on and off for an equally long time. I believe it's intentional, though I can't begin to fathom the logic behind it.

Chironic gear explicity gives you a "melee" category for augmentation, right on the menu. Merlinic doesn't! Why not? Chironic even has innate accuracy bonuses on some of the gear - it's clear that the set is intended to be used as melee equipment in at least some capacity. But why not Merlinic? Baffling. The only traditionally melee capable job on the Chironic - RDM - is also on Merlinic. Why the difference? It's inconsistent.

And that lack of consistency is the point. It cannot be stated that X set of gear doesn't/shouldn't have melee stats because jobs A, B and C are not "melee jobs", as SE repeatedly gives some "mage job" equipment meleeing stats but not others - seemingly at random.

There are arguments that you could back up - that gear set X appears to be intended for purpose Y (as I believe is the case for the WHM BRD SMN set - not that I necessarily agree with the implementation). That gear set X acts as a counterpart for similarly-equippable but differently statted set Y. Things like that are generally backed up by what SE has done in the past; "WHM is a mage" is not.

It's also worth pointing out that granting the BLM/etc set accuracy bonuses and melee stats just because one job on that set has a traditionally melee-based role doesn't mean that BLM, GEO etc magically don't receive those bonuses; they do. Is it acceptable that BLM, GEO etc are able to access these stats purely by coincidence? They certainly aren't traditional melee jobs.

[Zeldar]

And THF isn't traditionally a ranged job, but the sets it shares with RNG give ranged stats. So what? You are reading way too far into this. No job on the whm/brd/smn set was meant to melee, so they don't get the bonus. Plain and simple. Anything else you have stated is just an excuse to "OMG WHM/NIN MELEE< ARRRRRGHHH!!!!" Silly. Just silly.

[Zeldar]

And your "point" about chironic set only goes to further explain why the latest ambuscade set has ACC/ATTK. Chironic hes RDM on it....a job intented to melee. It isn't accepted as a melee, but it was intended to melee. The merlinic and almeric sets were intended as nuking sets, therefore have nuking stats. You are just trying to make an argument to get whm and brd to be accepted as melee jobs, and they never will be. EVER.

[Jerbob]

I'm really not. As I explained before, I personally find melee to be incredibly monotonous. If WHM was required to melee in parties I wouldn't play it. I just take exception to people making sweeping statements to shut down a question that's perfectly legitimate.

In this thread it has been stated that the WHM/BRD/SMN set doesn't have melee stats because those jobs aren't melee jobs. I simply provided evidence that there are gear, weapon and ability options for those jobs that directly involve melee combat, including some that are exlusively for those jobs - the most notable of which are the relic-etc weapons.

I am not expecting SE to make jobs like WHM BRD SMN into melee jobs, nor do I want them to. I would like people to be open-minded when it comes to giving those jobs options and flexibility in appropriate venues, which includes letting people ask questions such as that posed by the OP. Shutting things down with simple statements doesn't help anyone.

[Zeldar]

Simple questions are best answered simply. It doesn't always require a long complicated explanation to answer every question. When the answer to your question is simple, I will put it bluntly. I won't skirt around it. And the answer to this question is simple. If you don't want to melee on whm or brd, then why the long, drawn out argument? Just accept it and move on. I know I'm moving on from this thread....walking away with a sigh, shaking my head........

[Jakuk]

I'm really not. As I explained before, I personally find melee to be incredibly monotonous. If WHM was required to melee in parties I wouldn't play it. I just take exception to people making sweeping statements to shut down a question that's perfectly legitimate.

In this thread it has been stated that the WHM/BRD/SMN set doesn't have melee stats because those jobs aren't melee jobs. I simply provided evidence that there are gear, weapon and ability options for those jobs that directly involve melee combat, including some that are exlusively for those jobs - the most notable of which are the relic-etc weapons.

I am not expecting SE to make jobs like WHM BRD SMN into melee jobs, nor do I want them to. I would like people to be open-minded when it comes to giving those jobs options and flexibility in appropriate venues, which includes letting people ask questions such as that posed by the OP. Shutting things down with simple statements doesn't help anyone.

Through FFXI's history there has been odd jobs on odd equipment, DRG on Rapier's, RDM on H2H (despite no skill) and so on just because this is the case doesn't mean you see these jobs using those weapons, in the same way you don't see melee WHM etc outside of leveling, because it's not the right way to do it.

[Ketaru]

Through FFXI's history there has been odd jobs on odd equipment, DRG on Rapier's, RDM on H2H (despite no skill) and so on just because this is the case doesn't mean you see these jobs using those weapons, in the same way you don't see melee WHM etc outside of leveling, because it's not the right way to do it.

Using the history of this game as precedent still doesn't really lend to Accuracy being compulsory on all Ambuscade gear. WHM has traditionally had very little access to melee gear and always required something of a specialized set with few alternatives. Without Reverend Mail, you couldn't really even be taken seriously. As has been pointed out in the thread already, for WHMs that want to melee, there already are options. Modestly good ones at that. Some of them, like Chironic body, are much more difficult to obtain. But, for that, there is Kaykaus body which does have some accuracy on it.

For any relevant content that can be soloed, like High tier battlefields, T1 and T2 Escha NMs, and T1 Reisenjima NMs, the gear already available is plenty enough. Maybe the accuracy from Ambuscade gear would close the gap for higher level content. But that begs the question, why you are meleeing those on WHM.


And your "point" about chironic set only goes to further explain why the latest ambuscade set has ACC/ATTK. Chironic hes RDM on it....a job intented to melee. It isn't accepted as a melee, but it was intended to melee.

Now there's a contested point if there ever was one. Even ignoring the question of whether the job had the built-in resources to do it or not, the gear availability definitely sent mixed messages. All the job's JSE had titles that referenced swordsmanship, but never actually had any noteworthy melee stats. The availability also really waxed and waned, with the base game, ToAU, and SoA being much more melee-friendly. And CoP and the Abyssea era being much less so.

[Jakuk]

Using the history of this game as precedent still doesn't really lend to Accuracy being compulsory on all Ambuscade gear. WHM has traditionally had very little access to melee gear and always required something of a specialized set with few alternatives. Without Reverend Mail, you couldn't really even be taken seriously. As has been pointed out in the thread already, for WHMs that want to melee, there already are options. Modestly good ones at that. Some of them, like Chironic body, are much more difficult to obtain. But, for that, there is Kaykaus body which does have some accuracy on it.

For any relevant content that can be soloed, like High tier battlefields, T1 and T2 Escha NMs, and T1 Reisenjima NMs, the gear already available is plenty enough. Maybe the accuracy from Ambuscade gear would close the gap for higher level content. But that begs the question, why you are meleeing those on WHM.


? I wasn't saying it was, my post was, basically, just because a job is on something doesn't mean they're actually intended to use it/play it like that. (Hence H2H on RDM)


Now there's a contested point if there ever was one. Even ignoring the question of whether the job had the built-in resources to do it or not, the gear availability definitely sent mixed messages. All the job's JSE had titles that referenced swordsmanship, but never actually had any noteworthy melee stats. The availability also really waxed and waned, with the base game, ToAU, and SoA being much more melee-friendly. And CoP and the Abyssea era being much less so.

I think the main problem RDM suffered was the inclusion of BLU. While they started of on Mage and Light Armor sets as soon as BLU came it more or less cemented RDM being left off them.

As it stands RDM is beyond capable, just neglected on the gear front, IMO. That said they're probably in a MUCH better position now then they've been in for a very long time.

[detlef]

I wouldn't melee on those jobs so I didn't even notice that the set was missing accuracy but for consistency's sake, there really should have been accuracy on every set. OP, it's possible that it was an oversight by SE so why not file a bug report just in case? You never know.

[Ketaru]

? I wasn't saying it was, my post was, basically, just because a job is on something doesn't mean they're actually intended to use it/play it like that. (Hence H2H on RDM)

I was probably unclear, but I was agreeing with you for the most part. Still, there was some specialized melee gear for WHM. The availability then vs the availability now is actually pretty consistent with that.

[Catmato]

I would have loved (and was hopeful for) a melee set for WHM that doesn't involve spamming a boring luck-based event, then spending millions of gil trying for decent augments. However, when it didn't have any accuracy on it, I was disappointed but I was not surprised, nor did I think SE missed something. It's obvious that as non-melee jobs, non-melee stats made much more sense.

Also, who's to say that these are all of the sets they'll make? Just because they reused the salvage gear skins/jobs, doesn't mean they won't make anything else. There's still hope.

[OmnysValefor]

Eh, it seems like a reasonable question.

I'd never melee on WHM either but some decent melee gear for whm would be nice. To be honest, I'd never melee on RDM either, but I'm glad it has the option of the Morrigan's-skinned Ambuscade set. For a person who prefers to be on whm, it's nice when you get agro to participate effectively in melee.

On the flipside, Meghanada's (Ambuskadi) has BST on it and not a single pet stat anywhere on it. Usukane had some pet status but wasn't spectacular for pup.

+1 OP.

[Shiyo]

So WHM aren't allowed to melee because "they are mage jobs" yet blue mage is allowed to have every single stat they could ever want on most of their gear, access to nearly 100% of medium and cloth(mage) gear, and A+ in all forms of magic in the game AND A+ in their one weapon type? Lol.

WHM melee has been a thing since before COP was even out. Let them have melee gear.

[Catmato]

So WHM aren't allowed to melee because "they are mage jobs" yet blue mage is allowed to have every single stat they could ever want on most of their gear, access to nearly 100% of medium and cloth(mage) gear, and A+ in all forms of magic in the game AND A+ in their one weapon type? Lol.

WHM melee has been a thing since before COP was even out. Let them have melee gear.
NO! The devs can't spend the 1 minute per month they have to work on FFXI putting acc on WHM gear! WHMs can't melee! Anyone who says otherwise is wasting dev time and also hates kittens!!1

[Nyarlko]

For those who say that bard was not meant to melee, please check the relic, empyrean AND aeonic daggers. :3
Bard also has access to all non-Job Specific WS other than Viper Bite and Shark Bite.

I agree that it was a total letdown that this was the only set excluded from the accuracy handout of the first gear cycle of Ambuscade. My bard has 990acc unbuffed currently, and I was looking forward to reaching that magical 1100 mark. :(

I don't think it's too much to ask for given that none of the escha sets offer anything for bard to be more.. bardy >.>;; Absolutely nothing from the ABJ set, and I think one piece of Vanya has a bit of useless skill on it... If devs won't help me sing, at least help me stab please.

[Jakuk]

For those who say that bard was not meant to melee, please check the relic, empyrean AND aeonic daggers. :3
Bard also has access to all non-Job Specific WS other than Viper Bite and Shark Bite.

I agree that it was a total letdown that this was the only set excluded from the accuracy handout of the first gear cycle of Ambuscade. My bard has 990acc unbuffed currently, and I was looking forward to reaching that magical 1100 mark. :(

I don't think it's too much to ask for given that none of the escha sets offer anything for bard to be more.. bardy >.>;; Absolutely nothing from the ABJ set, and I think one piece of Vanya has a bit of useless skill on it... If devs won't help me sing, at least help me stab please.

Again we argue about the RMEA weapons. They are DD weapons for THF and (bar Relic) DNC that BRD happened to get put on due to needing a weapon for that type, all the gear they've got since... well forever shows they are NOT intended as melee.

[Vae]

But it is silly that every single piece of ilvl gear has acc on it (basically) except this set. You don't think that's weird?

[Jakuk]

But it is silly that every single piece of ilvl gear has acc on it (basically) except this set. You don't think that's weird?

Not really, every other set has at least one job intended for melee on, I think it's a shame that it has very little for BRD or WHM in truth, but not having Accuracy doesn't bother me so much as it's a niche stat for a healer or enhancer anyway.

I expected more "Cure" Potency, Song bonus's etc..

[Fermion]

For those who say that bard was not meant to melee, please check the relic, empyrean AND aeonic daggers. :3
Bard also has access to all non-Job Specific WS other than Viper Bite and Shark Bite.

I agree that it was a total letdown that this was the only set excluded from the accuracy handout of the first gear cycle of Ambuscade. My bard has 990acc unbuffed currently, and I was looking forward to reaching that magical 1100 mark. :(

I don't think it's too much to ask for given that none of the escha sets offer anything for bard to be more.. bardy >.>;; Absolutely nothing from the ABJ set, and I think one piece of Vanya has a bit of useless skill on it... If devs won't help me sing, at least help me stab please.

I agree with you. If you could have reached 1100, that would've opened up different options for you, such as SC opener in Apex parties. More options is always good, no?

Every event in the game isn't a tough NM. For easier events, I see nothing wrong with WHM/BRD/SMN melee. Especially if someone is solo with their trusts. Speaking of trusts, if SE never intended "which is 100% opinion. Not sure why people are acting as if they speak for SE" these jobs to melee, then why do WHM/BRD trusts melee?

Anyway, the bigger question to people like Jakuk is honestly, why do you care so much to keep replying with your anti WHM/BRD/SMN melee rhetoric? Who cares what someone does solo with their trusts, or in casual gameplay situations?

Sometimes I go SCH/DRK with my trusts so I can spam Tier Vs, using absorb TP so I can use Myrkr to give me virtually infinite MP. Did SE "intend" for SCH to sub DRK? No one cares, because I'm solo and have no effect on any other player. It's just for my own pleasure in CASUAL situations.

[Vae]

Ok, well that's kind of a bad argument... The bard trusts actually DON'T melee. Bard, is ok as a melee though.

When you give whm the (ability) to melee, you make people think it's "ok" to melee. It isn't. When you're solo do w/e the hell you want. As long as you're not in my preferred camps.

When you're doing something mildly relevant (and you're feeding tp to mobs) for virtually no gain. It's a problem. People can't distinguish the difference.

[Catmato]

Just because the people you play with can't understand that WHM melee has a time and a place (i.e not anything that matters) doesn't mean it's an impossible concept. I would never think of pulling out my clubs on any sort of shout content. Maybe you should play with better players?

[Vae]

Just because the people you play with can't understand that WHM melee has a time and a place (i.e not anything that matters) doesn't mean it's an impossible concept. I would never think of pulling out my clubs on any sort of shout content. Maybe you should play with better players?

If you'll notice I agree the set should have acc. I simply stated that his argument was bad.

[Catmato]

Sorry, you're right. I wasn't considering the context of the thread. I got unnecessarily defensive over you saying whm melee isn't "ok".

[Nyarlko]

Again we argue about the RMEA weapons. They are DD weapons for THF and (bar Relic) DNC that BRD happened to get put on due to needing a weapon for that type, all the gear they've got since... well forever shows they are NOT intended as melee.

And your rebuttal for the ws access? ^^ Simply having access to Rudra's Storm is enough to make it worth considering bard melee, so long as accuracy requirements can be met. Using the lack of melee gear to support the role doesn't really work that well either, since if you were to take a look at just about all non-reforged ilvl bard gear, you would realize that SE doesn't even bother supporting bard's songs. By your argument, if role is intended to be determined by current gear availability, then bard's role is... to act as half of a bad whm >_>;; BRD has equal or greater SC potential than BST, which devs insist should be meleeing even though it has no tools to do so. As I said earlier, "If devs won't help me sing, at least help me stab please."