Tachi: Kaiten and Tachi: Fudo Attack bonus.

[Toren]

I would like opt for a minor buff to Tachi: Kaiten and Tachi: Fudo (if not Tachi: Fudo at least Tachi: Kaiten) both are limited in use against high defense NM's even when geared properly with high end attack food up Tachi: Yukikaze (Y),Tachi: Gekko (G), and Tachi: Kasha (K) will still out perform them on these NM's. I also would like to hear other Relic/Empryean Samurai's thoughts on this as well.

For many years I have heard many people making negative comments about Tachi: Kaiten not being as effective as Samurai's Y,G,K WS's against high defense NM's and HNM's since the buff to Y,G,K, Tachi: Fudo also shares the same issue with Tachi: Kaiten.

With newer Battlefields and HNM's arising soon I can see this as a major drawback for Amanomurakumo and Masamune Samurai's.

[deathgod]

well i dont know about others but i can do 2.3-3k+ on dynamis lord. not sure how that compairs to other but thats w/o food and once im able to get back on ill post what i use for ws gear.


ps this is with walk of echos fudo

[Malacite]

Get a bard? >.>b

Seriously though, I wouldn't call for any buffs just yet. We still have 2 more level cap increases to go, and it looks like the future of endgame will thankfully be outside of Abyssea.

Abyssea's fun & all but at some point we gotta get off the Atma lol.

[hiko]

Get a bard? >.>b

Seriously though, I wouldn't call for any buffs just yet. We still have 2 more level cap increases to go, and it looks like the future of endgame will thankfully be outside of Abyssea.

Abyssea's fun & all but at some point we gotta get off the Atma lol.
need 2 BRDs(or one with the emp harp)

with proper gears fudo/kaiten(90+) always beat gekko

[Ryozen]

Get a bard? >.>b

Seriously though, I wouldn't call for any buffs just yet. We still have 2 more level cap increases to go, and it looks like the future of endgame will thankfully be outside of Abyssea.

Abyssea's fun & all but at some point we gotta get off the Atma lol.

This coming from the guy who wants a fourth Lunar?

Eat Red Curry, use Berserk, WS in an attack-heavy set. If that's not enough, use Gekko. Shit's situational; if Kaiten/Fudo aren't cutting it, use Gekko or switch to another job.

[Lotmorning]

As stated in a previous thread an attack bonus to Kaiten and Fudo would be overkill unless mob you are fighting has defense through the roof (If that case then all ws from any job would be bad). However allowing Kaiten and Fudo to crit would be a bonus to SAM without completely overpowering it like the attack bonus on Y/G/K was.

[Azucares]

I feel that Tachi: Fudo simply has an attack modifier rather than a strength. (more strength equals more attack which can lead to the confusion when testing the weapon skill). The NM I discovered this on was Briareus. Without attack buffs of any kind my Tachi: Fudos did damage between 1.5k to 2.3k but with attack food, attack buffs from bard, stalwart's tonic(or gambir), beserk, and warcry. I had Tachi: Fudos that did 3k to 4.8k without fail. (note: I don't feel attack caps at 999 attack). (Also, at the time I was geared for strength, and I will be testing an attack build for samurai. Though there may not be much to change out. This result left me curious since I don't believe everything I read.)

[Jacs]

It isn't an attack modifier, at least not in the sense that STR is. Your PDIF just isn't auto capped with Fudo (and Kaiten) like it is with YGK, so attack actually matters. STR is a mod for WSC. Fudo requires a balance of attack and STR in order to maximize its damage, you can't just pile on STR gear like with YGK and hope to see massive increases.

See here: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Calculating_Weapon_Skill_Damage

No offense but you aren't going to learn anything through testing. Its all been known since people first started using Fudo. Its why Byrnie+1 is tops for Fudo, etc etc.

[Jacs]

Furthermore I would rather not see Fudo/Kaiten have their TP mod switched to crit chance. Fudo has a really nice fTP mod that scales up well with higher TP. Crit chance would flatten that scaling. I'd rather see a semi-useless multi-hit WS like Rana get turned into a crit chance WS. Its mod is accuracy, which we generally don't need, and it is really only useful for making self darkness SCs.

[Azucares]

Pysical-Based weapon skills. Damage = Base damage of your Weapon Skill * function of (your Physical ATK/target’s Physical DEF). Damage = WD * pDIF = (D + fSTR + WSC) * fTP*pDIF. WD = floor(D+(aD)+fSTR2). D = fSTR/fSTR2. fSTR = (you STR - monster VIT +4)/4. fTP = fTP(PreviousAnchor)+dTP*(fTP(NextAnchor)-fTP(PreviousAnchor)). pDIF(with level correction function). Ratio = attackers attack/defenders defense. If the Ratio is capped then the formula for cRatio = 2.2-0.05*level difference. level difference in this case is 95-90=5. Mob defense = (f(level,family defense rank)+8+[vit/2]+job traits)*family multiplier. For cRatio = 2.2 - 0.05*5 =1.95 (aka the ratio gets adjusted for mobs level). max pDIF = 1.2*1.95 and min pDIF = -0.8 +1.2*1.95. WSC = floor (floor((A x A%) + (B x B%)) x α) where α = .75.

Now that I have gather all the information you told me to from your link please send me another link that tells me the mobs vit and defense. so i can use there formulas to find out my weapon skill damage. lol or i can just weaponskill with trying different types of gear. You know what no offense but you can keep all those formulas lol. To be honest I hope SE makes those formulas calculate your damage the rest of your life on this game. Not only is the information incomplete for level 90, but I hope you have fun finding the vit and defense for every monster in the game.

[Greatguardian]

Alpha is 0.85, not 0.75. The formulas are also nowhere near difficult, they just look cluttered because you typed them in a cluttered manner. It's basic algebra. It's also not horribly difficult to plug in test values for vit/defense based on previously known values, or to derive them based on min/max damage numbers.

[Jacs]

You don't really need to know the VIT or DEF of any mob to know what gear to choose. For one, in Abyssea, your fSTR is going to be capped (look up fSTR and Weapon Rank) due to cruor buffs and VV atma, and whatever gear you have. Thus your STR is only going to need to be looked at in WSC. Your attack is ratio'd to the mobs DEF, ATK/DEF. Since DEF is unchanging, you can calculate relative differences (like adding X attack gives you an increase of Y%).

I'm just trying to help since you clearly don't understand how it works. You ask for exact VIT values for every mob, which aren't actually available, however over at BG they are working on compiling all that the information. You are missing the point. The idea isn't to make a separate build for each and every mob, but to make a general build which is good for all mobs, or maybe a build for regular mobs and NMs and one for very difficult NMs.

I would recommend using a calculator to help you choose atmas and gear properly for your given set up. A good one I use is Kinematics from Allakhazam: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?fjob=10&mid=1302591885208714538&page=1&howmany=50#msg1302754629251399740

Go to that link and he has calculators for a few jobs.

[Azucares]

Alpha is 0.85, not 0.75.
I see that now on the page. saying that @ = 0.85 If you click link for WSC It shows the Alpha ranges. if you look at the trend of the numbers decreasing that was just my best guess. Thank you for pointing out my oversight.

The idea isn't to make a separate build for each and every mob, but to make a general build which is good for all mobs
Yeah I see what you are saying gear for the worst, and things will work out. I just want to know the VIT and Def of Briareus. I want to plug in the test values myself and see if the formulas are anywhere close to right. I don't believe everything I read. If they workout then its great, but if they don't I don't see anything wrong with how I'm doing things. We can agree that STR and attack are important for Tachi: Fudo. I just feel that more attack is necessary, and I think that's what your saying. The thing this all start with was I wasn't saying anything new as far as you thought. That's fine by me lol.

I would recommend using a calculator to help you choose atmas and gear properly for your given set up.
Thanks for the link and I will look at the spread sheets.

[Jacs]

Feel free to test it, but those formulas are very well tested and match up excellently with parse data.

[Lasareth]

You are in luck azucares. Earlier today in finding my best Fudo setup, I spent quite a lot of time killing dolls in altep. Here are my results. These are all based on single hits since TP return on multi hits confuses me and adds a level of depth beyond what I was looking for (best balance of STR/ATK). I won't tell you what I gleaned from my results--you are free to choose your own conclusion. The top headers are the atma combos I used for each set of tests. I assumed (possibly a bad idea) that SB atma is +100TP bonus. I use TP bonus +25 WOTG earring as well. Therefore the "adjusted tp" column is simply TP+125, capped at 300. Availability of EM mobs was scarce, so there's not a whole lot of info on them.

I don't expect anything conclusive from providing this, but it may provide an insight into the nature of atk/str for fudo.

Pic since google docs sucks:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/lasareth/tpspread.png

I'll answer any questions if there are some confusing parts to the spreadsheet.

[Jacs]

This is frustrating, you guys. The info is all out there for you and all you have to do is look it up and think about it some. Lazareth, your "results" don't really mean a whole lot. Your sample size is way too small, the only mobs where you actually know the exact level are the EM ones (T has a range), and that is kind of important (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Level_Correction_Function_and_pDIF), you didn't bother to figure out your exact attack over 999, you don't even bother to normalize for fTP (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/FTP). Like I said, go download a damage calculator. If you want me to, I can list out the best atmas and gear based on that damage calculator. Seriously though, it would be easier if you did it yourself.

[Azucares]

Thanks Lasareth for posting the information on your atma choices. I've been using Stoutarm, Stronghold, and Alpha and Omega. It gives me a nice amount of attack with a little str, and triple attack. I think the information you posted was useful. Thank you.