[FFXI] Japanese language support for non-Japanese region clients

[Akiyama]

First, I'd like to say that one of the things I've always liked about FFXI and that makes XI a little unique from other MMOs is having servers that aren't limited to regions, allowing players to communicate and experience Vana'diel from players all around the world.

The Auto-Translate function helps to bridge the language barrier between regions, mainly between Japanese and non-Japanese players. On the POL Play Guide, the Auto-Translate function is introduced as follows:


FINAL FANTASY XI has an auto-translate feature. Text entered from the list of common phrases will appear in either English or Japanese, depending on the version of the game that the player is using.

You cannot modify or add to the list of common phrases. However, the list contains a comprehensive vocabulary of words and phrases that will allow you to easily communicate with other players, no matter which language they are using!

There are a lot of Japanese-speaking players in Vana’diel. The auto-translate feature enables you to play in the same world as them so you can enjoy the best that online gaming has to offer.

This assumes that no players from non-Japanese regions know any Japanese and would therefore require the Auto-Translate function to help communicate with said players. The Auto-Translate system works for the majority of players in getting across requests and tactics, however there are those in non-Japanese regions that have learnt Japanese and would like to communicate to Japanese players/friends.

With that being said, I'd like to make the suggestion of allowing non-Japanese region clients the IME functionality to enable Japanese characters to be input into the game. Japanese players can currently type both, but non-Japanese players are left with having to type Japanese in romaji which I feel (and I assume others that are with a similar opinion) takes away from the experience of being able to communicate to Japanese players. As not all players would be interested in this functionality and the IME itself would somewhat change the input bar, I would also like to suggest that if this functionality could be implemented, either a checkbox in the FFXIConfig application or an in-game config window option be added to enable/disable this.

Thanks.

[Imakun]

I support this!
I've been learning a bit of japanese since I first started playing FFXI (back in 2005) and romaji just doesn't cut it. The Auto-Translation system is also very limited.
I have met a lot of nice japanese players who helped me and I always wished I could express my gratitude or at least try to communicate better with them using hiragana/katakana/kanji.

So yes, please. Give us the option to communicate directly with our fellow japanese adventurers!

[Gokulo]

I'm not really too versed on the topic but I think the problem here are some legal issues? Something about special permission to add IME-support to their software outside of japan? Once again, don't take my word for it, just repeating what I think I could've heard ages ago. But, in comparison I know games like Aion etc. can use it no problem so...

[Limar]

I'm not really too versed on the topic but I think the problem here are some legal issues?

There should not. Everyone can use IMEs on Operating System Basis, its just a tool to write non-latin characters.
I really think it's really the dev staff years ago when FFXI was released was going for non-japanese players don't speak japanese and so autotranslate will do the job - like some other poster already said. And kind of chaning it was always too low priority or not even considered by the old team.

[Akiyama]

I'm not really too versed on the topic but I think the problem here are some legal issues? Something about special permission to add IME-support to their software outside of japan? Once again, don't take my word for it, just repeating what I think I could've heard ages ago. But, in comparison I know games like Aion etc. can use it no problem so...

This shouldn't be the problem since IME is included in the Operating System. In terms of the game files, it appears that all regions receive the same game files. Its the region of the POL Viewer, which is region-specific, that determines which localisation of the game to use.

Though if this is the case then some clarification from the Development Team would be greatly appreciated.

[rog]

There should not. Everyone can use IMEs on Operating System Basis, its just a tool to write non-latin characters.
I really think it's really the dev staff years ago when FFXI was released was going for non-japanese players don't speak japanese and so autotranslate will do the job - like some other poster already said. And kind of chaning it was always too low priority or not even considered by the old team.Yes, everyone is free to use it for their own personal use, however you are not free to incorperate it in your own commercial programs. SE does not have permission to use it in a commercial product, even if every single user has permission to use it on their own. If they wanted to get permission, they would have to pay royalties.

[Akiyama]

Yes, everyone is free to use it for their own personal use, however you are not free to incorperate it in your own commercial programs. SE does not have permission to use it in a commercial product, even if every single user has permission to use it on their own. If they wanted to get permission, they would have to pay royalties.

Microsoft's IME included within the Operating System is free to use in both Personal and Commercial programs. English region Commercial programs that I use allow the use of the Operating System IME with no problems, and like Limar said, other games such as Aion etc. allow the use of the IME.

[rog]

Microsoft's IME included within the Operating System is free to use in both Personal and Commercial programs. English region Commercial programs that I use allow the use of the Operating System IME with no problems, and like Limar said, other games such as Aion etc. allow the use of the IME.
I dunno then. SE has said it has to do with royalties, and they certainly wouldn't have specifically disabled it (it's still there on all versions, just not usable) for no reason.

[Showmo]

I would like it if the IME could be supported on the English (and of course other) clients of POL as well (assuming there aren't royalty issues). I know that FFXIV supports the IME usage, so I'm not really sure why it wouldn't be allowed on FFXI.

[Akiyama]

If licensing and royalties were the issue then I'd expect the Japanese game to be higher in price than non-Japanese games, but this isn't the case. The Ultimate Collection is available for the same price on Steam whatever the region, and the subscription prices are both similar.

It also seems a little strange that within a license they'd be able to ship all games with the IME and only have to pay royalties on the games that are likely to use them. In terms of whoever the royalties are going to, if a game is shipped with the IME, regardless of whether it'll be used or not, royalties should be due.

Even if it is the case, I'm sure many users who would like the feature wouldn't mind paying a small one-off fee to enable this.

[rog]

If licensing and royalties were the issue then I'd expect the Japanese game to be higher in price than non-Japanese games, but this isn't the case. The Ultimate Collection is available for the same price on Steam whatever the region, and the subscription prices are both similar.They may just be eating the cost.


It also seems a little strange that within a license they'd be able to ship all games with the IME and only have to pay royalties on the games that are likely to use them. In terms of whoever the royalties are going to, if a game is shipped with the IME, regardless of whether it'll be used or not, royalties should be due.The code is inactive though. It has nothing to do with who is likely to use it, but rather who is able to use it.

[Aena]

I've wondered how Japanese players feel about seeing "omedetou" typed out Romanized...? I suppose it helps distinguish who has a Japanese game client from those who don't... I guess. It is true however that many NA and EU have a strong interest/much study in the Japanese language, and that there are many Japanese-Americans or Japanese immigrants here who are either 100% fluent in Japanese, or are honestly better at speaking/writing in Japanese than English. I can get by with French and limited German using characters such as é and ç, but no JP IME cuts off Japanese and amusing kigou.

I would hope people wouldn't just use the IME function to spam meaningless strings of characters, though. :eek:

[Xanthe]

I would be interested in seeing IME support added to non-Japanese clients as well. Having studied Japanese back in college it would be nice to have the opportunity to continue to exercise those skills.

[Xilk]

This is silly. There are no licenses to need to use the MS japanese IME. The only license would be: Are you using and illegal copy of windows? its part of the operating system.

There is not licensing fee holding back this functionality. It would be wonderful to have.

[oliveira]

One good reason why the US and EU POL had no IME support was the fact it was originally designed for being compatible with Windows 98. I don't think the current version of POL even boots properly on Windows 98.

Because of differences on the Windows9x software, adding IME support to POL would cause it to only work on NT based OSes as Windows 2000 or newer.

Now, regarding the PS2 version, it uses ATOK, which is a copyrighted piece of software (JustSystems, an Japanese word processor developer company owns it) and indeed they would have to pay JustSystems royalties for it.

But hey now Windows 98 is GONE and they could update the international versions of POL to make it work with IME.

As a side note IME works just fine with Final Fantasy XIV regardless of the language the game is setup as.

[Arcon]

As a side note IME works just fine with Final Fantasy XIV regardless of the language the game is setup as.

Was about to say that. In XIV it works like a charm, I hope they consider it for XI as well, they do seem to be able to implement it.

[noodles355]

I would also like to add my support for use of the IME in FFXI. Otsukaresamadeshita doesn't quite have the same ring as　お疲れ様でした after an event!

[Meyi]

Romaji is often considered "English" and is therefore ignored.

Not only that, but romaji is much more difficult to read (even as an English speaker) than kanji and hiragana.

I made a topic on this as well so I agree 100%. I would be willing to pay a small fee to help bridge the IME support.

[Alhanelem]

FFXI does not use the Windows IME because it wasn't originally developed on/for Windows. They had to use third party technology for the PS2, and this technology was unchanged in the porting to Windows. Since they didn't feel it was worth the cost, they simply disabled japanese input. And if it wasn't worth the cost then, it certainly wouldn't be now.

[oliveira]

FFXI for Windows DOES use IME when running in Japanese language. I used it myself when I could play the game. JPN PlayOnline website even offers dictionary updates (here FYI: http://www.playonline.com/home/download/dic01.html) and you load these files onto IME for having autocomplete to work on Japanese language.

The PC version was converted so it's natively running on Windows.

Like I explained before the reason for FFXI having IME removed in the English version is that Windows 98 cannot work with IME unless it's the Japanese/Chinese or Korean version. Any IME enabled application fails booting on non Asian Windows 98.

[Mifaco]

Don't forget the support issues. Imagine if a player unwittingly presses alt+shift

"What the hell? What are these funny squiggly characters? How do I get out of this?"

He tries contacting a GM, but he can't type because he's still in the JP IME.
He tries logging out and logging back in but it's still the same issue.
By now he's thoroughly frustrated at possibly having to reinstall the game.
Don't think this is possible? Having worked at a helpdesk before, this is an entirely plausible scenario.

Enabling JP support = catering to a vanishingly small portion of the NA playerbase, along with massive support issues. Not happening.

[Meyi]

Don't forget the support issues. Imagine if a player unwittingly presses alt+shift

"What the hell? What are these funny squiggly characters? How do I get out of this?"

He tries contacting a GM, but he can't type because he's still in the JP IME.
He tries logging out and logging back in but it's still the same issue.
By now he's thoroughly frustrated at possibly having to reinstall the game.
Don't think this is possible? Having worked at a helpdesk before, this is an entirely plausible scenario.

Enabling JP support = catering to a vanishingly small portion of the NA playerbase, along with massive support issues. Not happening.

It goes away when you log out and log back in.

I support this. I'd like to be able to talk to my Japanese friends. Even if they made it where you had to purchase the IME and download it seperately I'd do it.

[Midorikaze]

It goes away when you log out and log back in.

I support this. I'd like to be able to talk to my Japanese friends. Even if they made it where you had to purchase the IME and download it seperately I'd do it.

I would pay for the upgrade. We are but a small group....but the language barrier is getting old.

Perhaps something could be implemented with the new UI...?

八(＾□＾*) 私は願っています！!!

[Lisotte]

I believe it was a problem with licensing of the IME on ps2.

[Economizer]

We are but a small group....

Maybe the group wouldn't be so small if NA players had a proper IME?

I think players would put in a serious effort to learn Japanese if they had a real IME. I'd take a serious effort to learn it if FFXI had an IME (since speaking, er... typing? is the best way to learn a language). Make me eat my words SE.

[Belmonts]

Don't forget the support issues. Imagine if a player unwittingly presses alt+shift

"What the hell? What are these funny squiggly characters? How do I get out of this?"

He tries contacting a GM, but he can't type because he's still in the JP IME.
He tries logging out and logging back in but it's still the same issue.
By now he's thoroughly frustrated at possibly having to reinstall the game.
Don't think this is possible? Having worked at a helpdesk before, this is an entirely plausible scenario.

Enabling JP support = catering to a vanishingly small portion of the NA playerbase, along with massive support issues. Not happening.

Lol first of all is not only that you have to change your keyboard to japanese, it is always locked in roman characters when you do that the first time.

Secondly, you have to also type "Alt+~" sequence to start the "squiggly".

Third and most important, if you don't want to squiggle as you said you can choose to not activate that on the first place.

Aside of the "oops, I CTRL+Shift and Atl+~ and in that order, *facepalm* Zomg I can't get out of squiggles!!" thing sounds unlikely and will need some sort of a horrible hand handicap/cramp to happen by accident. And many ppl used to type japanese on their computers knows how to undo that. And new ppl can or do the Atl+~ or, in the worst scenario, restart the game.

[Dragoy]

While that scenario is entirely plausible, would that not happen with any application regardless if Windows IME was enabled. ^^;

In any case, that is certainly not a valid reason to not do this for FINAL FANTASY XI.

With that said, I think it's about time we get it enabled for the PC version at least. The client itself is a big tease when the IME icons sometimes appear, but are unusable of course. Still haven't figured out what exactly triggers it, as it seems quite... um... random...


Yes.

[oliveira]

I believe it was a problem with licensing of the IME on ps2.

PS2 version uses ATOK as input method. It's a alternative method from the notorious word processor maker Japanese company JustSystems. So yes, it was licensing issues as they would need to pay for JustSystems ATOK licencing fees on USA, which would be really underused...

Still SONY paid for all PS3 consoles to have ATOK enabled on it's XMB, regardless of where it is being sold at ... :)

[Cardinalgate]

i so Support this

[wildsprite]

I support this as well, I think its a great idea, especially since I have a Japanese friend who wants to teach me her native tongue

[Kalinene]

I know this is an old thread, but this is an important issue for me! I used to have the Japanese FFXI client back in the day for this very reason because romaji is very frustrating to read and communicate with. It was a really amazing experience being able to speak with players in Japan.

I'm glad to hear that Japanese input has been introduced to FFXIV. Why can't FFXI do the same now? It would be really great to finally have a way to talk with Japanese players and not simply rely on the auto-translate feature or romaji.

日本語を勉強している外国人多いです。ゲームの中に、ちゃんとした日本語を入力させてください。
There are lots of people from other countries learning and studying Japanese. Please allow us to input proper Japanese in game, too. ^^

[Alhanelem]

It's not going to happen. I want it too, but it just won't happen. SE would have to pay licensing fees for every NA user to have access to the game's integrated IME- and it wouldn't be worth the cost when you consider the number of people likely to be capable of using it. This is why the coding for it still exists in the windows version, but it's disabled internally.


Still SONY paid for all PS3 consoles to have ATOK enabled on it's XMB, regardless of where it is being sold at ...This only applies to the PS3 system software though- other software still has to license it.

[Midorikaze]

心を開いておいてください。

True that we are but a small niche group of individuals who are expanding our knowledge of a different language and would like to communicate a bit more freely with our non-English speaking fellow players. Auto-Translate though decent, doesn't cover quite everything I would like to say. Even the ability to copy-paste would satisfy me anyways, like there is in XIV. The ability to input characters from another language or special characters in general should go BOTH ways (I'm looking at you, musical notes, stars and piggy snout smileys); I don't see a need to not allow it or disable it. So sad that a language barrier exists simply because no matter what - in the end it all comes down to money and what is practical or not...licensing fees, legalities, copyrights, red tape. Call it what you will...

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$~

:\

[Kalinene]

It's not going to happen. I want it too, but it just won't happen. SE would have to pay licensing fees for every NA user to have access to the game's integrated IME- and it wouldn't be worth the cost when you consider the number of people likely to be capable of using it. This is why the coding for it still exists in the windows version, but it's disabled internally.

This only applies to the PS3 system software though- other software still has to license it.
With regards to this...

I for one would even be willing to PAY a small fee to have access to full input abilities. They could introduce it as a one-time upgrade fee (aka you get your account "flagged" for foreign language input) or they could tack it on to the monthly fee.

So, I feel like cost isn't the only reason that they don't want to allow it. Either way, it's a shame. I hope they will eventually find a cheap way to implement it.

[Raksha]

Didn't realize this was an old ass thread until I saw Rog on the first page.

I kinda miss that guy (;_;)

[Midorikaze]

"Sorry, we can't do that...licensing fees <mumble mumble>"

How much would it cost to enable the IME that's already installed in my client, just 'disabled'(therefore a patch shouldn't be required, it's all in there already)?

If people were given a choice of whether to enable it or not, royalties/licensing would be kept to a minimum (I guess). It might just be a reasonable amount for those who would like it. I'm curious. Let's hear a number.

Seriously. For one person, one PC, one client. How much? Just wondering.

o.o

[wildsprite]

It's not going to happen. I want it too, but it just won't happen. SE would have to pay licensing fees for every NA user to have access to the game's integrated IME- and it wouldn't be worth the cost when you consider the number of people likely to be capable of using it. This is why the coding for it still exists in the windows version, but it's disabled internally.


just where do you get this licensing fee garbage from? they have IME on linux, there is no licensing fee unless they are paying another company to do it.

[Alhanelem]

just where do you get this licensing fee garbage from? they have IME on linux, there is no licensing fee unless they are paying another company to do it.
Every OS has an IME, not just linux. the specific IME software SE is using is not part of any OS, and most certainly is subject to licensing fees. It's not garbage, and they are paying another company to do it. It is a proprietary IME that they had to obtain to use on the PS2. It is built into FFXI and was carried with it to the PC version, but it is disabled internally because SE didn't want to pay the licesnsing fees for every NA user to be able to use it.

Money is the only reason for any of this. They don't do it because it would cost them more money to let us play, and from their point of view, it would be a senseless cost since very few North American or European players are fluent in Japanese.


Now, regarding the PS2 version, it uses ATOK, which is a copyrighted piece of software (JustSystems, an Japanese word processor developer company owns it) and indeed they would have to pay JustSystems royalties for it.

[oliveira]

Windows version uses MS-IME so the real reason the NA FFXI for Windows cannot use IME is Windows 98.

Any IME capable Windows program will fail to launch in non Japanese Windows 9x due to missing KERNEL imports related to MS-IME.

Since FFXIV had no reason to support Windows 98, it does support changing language to Japanese. And IME works just fine with it, regardless.

[Alhanelem]

'tis true, but the PS2 version also plays into this, and they use a proprietary IME on the PS2, as described above.

[Mayoyama]

My friend who plays with JP a lot is constantly complaining about this lol. He has to use "something that doesnt get named here" to allow him to copy from microsoft word doc and paste into POL

[Kalinene]

My friend who plays with JP a lot is constantly complaining about this lol. He has to use "something that doesnt get named here" to allow him to copy from microsoft word doc and paste into POL

Oh yeah, I remember doing that too awhile back. Was really inconvenient. xD At least it was better than using romaji, though.

I'm really curious how FFXIV will be with the language input enabled. Maybe the language barrier won't seem as bad? I hope so.

And oh well, hopefully one day it will get enabled. Once again, I'm sure there are folks that would pay for it. Money may be an issue, but it's much less so when the players are footing the bill.

[Alhanelem]

AFAIK XIV is compatible with any IME available for Windows; It has to be, since you can freely switch the game between any of the four supported languages.