Mog Wardrobe 3&4 feedback.

[Raydeus]

Nope.

I understand why the suits want to move in that direction (because it worked in XIV), but it's a really scummy move for XI. And if things keep moving this way, like it was when they decided to not unlock crafting caps because they didn't want people to cancel their crafting mules, I think I'll be done with the game sooner than expected.

But that's just my personal opinion. What does everyone else think?


PS > My one request for the devs though, is that once this "optional service" is implemented the Wardrobe 3&4 buttons do not appear in the UI if we do not have the service enabled. Or that at least the UI skips them if not in use. Because if I have to move around them when accessing my inventory it's going to get really annoying really fast.

[Eaglestrike]

I think I'll be paying a few more dollars a month to SE for the foreseeable future.

[Vanfrano]

I will not play their little game, they are already doing it on pretty much all of their other games. I always said to myself that if something like this happened in FFXI I would probably end up leaving.

We are already paying full subscription price for a game that cannot be developped anymore, there is no reason at all we should be paying a penny more for this game considering SE never made any effort to upgrade the game or give it the attention it deserved.
Now I understand why all this augmenting system went completely out of hand, they probably already had this in mind.

[Eaglestrike]

If paying for Wardrobe 3 + 4 makes my life easier, makes me able to play some other jobs without worrying about space, and eventually pays for a new expansion, I am all over it.

[vienne]

If paying for Wardrobe 3 + 4 makes my life easier, makes me able to play some other jobs without worrying about space, and eventually pays for a new expansion, I am all over it.

Well the problem here is they said last year there wont be anymore expansions.
I agree with the fact that we already pay full price for a what? 15 year old game. They have stated they have no intent to upgrade the UI, they cant make new content cause of the not available devkits. And now they want to milk it like this, its a slap in the face for the people who have supported this game for so long.

[Eaglestrike]

Well the problem here is they said last year there wont be anymore expansions.
I agree with the fact that we already pay full price for a what? 15 year old game. They have stated they have no intent to upgrade the UI, they cant make new content cause of the not available devkits. And now they want to milk it like this, its a slap in the face for the people who have supported this game for so long.

Pretty sure Abyssea was created as a "last hurrah" for the game and nothing more was supposed to come. And then we ended up with Seekers. I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up getting a new addon somewhere along the way.

[Leocon]

I won't be paying an extra fee for storage when I'm already paying for as many mules as I do. At least with all my mules I have additional resources as well as extra storage. Quite frankly I find it a little insulting as a 12-year customer to have to pay a monthly fee for something as central to gameplay as gearing slots, and while I won't go so far as to quit because of this decision, I will say that Square Enix is quickly tarnishing their reputation with me. I've always said FFXI was my first and would be the only MMO I'll ever play, and decisions like this only reaffirm that thought. I won't be jumping to 14 or likely the brand new 11 if this is the situation I can expect for the future.

I'm sure there's all the business sense in the world to justify this decision for them, and it's completely understandable why a company would want to boost income if they can, but decisions like this really only leave a bad taste in my mouth and harm your reputation in my eyes.

[OmnysValefor]

SE, Please do not do this.

FFXI is fairly unique in being able to play multiple jobs on one character which has always been something of an inventory crisis. You give us gear that we frequently need two pieces of, sometimes as much as 3 or 4 (JSE capes from Ambuscade being an example).

You're creating this crisis and you have the ability to alleviate for us. We don't want to pay more money for this.

[AoiX]

I just have to question why this has been brought to the end of FFXI's life. There's no new content planned. Items and jobs most people play are already set. I won't deny it will make my life easier to swap between jobs. I will be paying for this. I just hope this will help at least on enhancing the connection speed between client and server. I also hope, but most unlikely, this will help also make new content for FFXI. Everything has a cost, I just wonder if if's worth it a third of the subscription fee.

[ibm2431]

Posting this with my second account before I cancel it as well:
I just canceled my account of 11 years. (https://imgur.com/QhcAbae)

I am not going to tolerate SE wanting to charge 30% of the monthly fee for a couple extra kilobytes of storage. I won't put up with SE giving themselves a financial incentive to avoid giving us ways of better managing our inventory (Storage Slips, combining similar items, etc). I won't abide trying to charge the playerbase extra instead of just fixing the underlying game engine so we don't have inventory loading problems in the first place.

Think about it, the more situational single-use pieces they add to the game, the more they encourage players to spend more money. How long until we see the return of (ilvl) Elemental Staves? Will the question of, "will this reduce our Wardrobe 3/4 subscriber count" be asked while considering whether or not to add something to a Storage Slip? When will they add single-job only earrings?

Rather than fix our inventory burdens with better design choices, they want to squeeze extra money from us while doing nothing more than expanding a data field. We should not be expected to be willing to pay an extra 30% to get around the game's technical/design problems. Players who like to play multiple well-geared jobs, of varying types, shouldn't be told that they'll need to pay more for the privilege of providing more utility to their linkshell.

This is outrageous. And it just cost SE a subscriber of 11 years.

[Raiyara]

I'd chip in and say this is a really poor taste move expecially considering the age of the game and the fact that up to now we got additional space added as they could develop it. To add it now in this way seems really really scummy to say the least.

[Stompa]

This is a contentious subject, so I will try diplomatic language, Hazmat Suit, etc.

I think it is not a bad deal, to offer a slight subscription fee increase in exchange for a huge storage boost.

It would be different if SE had not already given us FREE wardrobes, satchels, storage slips, etc.

If they had given you just original Mog Storage 2004, and your inventory, and then they tried to sell you extra space for a fee - it would be different and I would join you in your outrage. But the fact is that they have already given us loads of free storage space.

This fee is aimed at people who have got exceptional amounts of stuff, not normal or moderate amounts of stuff. I play FFXI every day, have six jobs geared to high standard, fishing gear, clothcraft gear, etc. and I have got around 30% space left over in the current storage systems.

Every year I have a Spring Clean, where I just throw away old stuff that is not essential. I send things to my mules, things I might need to borrow back rarely. I pay an extra subscription fee for my mules, no different to this extra storage fee.

On the "game is really old" and that means less valuable somehow. The best and most expensive wines and art in the world, are all really old. Age doesn't mean something is less valuable. I am happy paying the current subs for FFXI, I consider myself very fortunate that this most brilliant computergame is still available. If I needed extra space, I would be happy paying the slight increase in subs. The money goes to keeping my favourite game online. Win-win.

:cool:

[mekia]

Like with everything that makes life (or in game life) easier it cost money. Not a problem paying for this.

[Leocon]

I know I've said my piece, but in the spirit of attempting to keep things diplomatic here, I'll offer my post I made on FFXIAH recently.

Eh, I find myself on the fence with the whole thing... While this all is a really crappy move, I'm still enjoying the game all the same, so having 2 extra storage options isn't the make or break deal for me; but I also understand that their dev team is practically non-existent and that these things do take time to implement, time that could be justified being spent somewhere else, either on FFXI or other projects.

I won't pretend to understand how their business practices work out, just that I know all things have their price. I just wish they would have gone with a more one-time cost route with this, rather than a monthly charge. It's not like they have to maintain or update the wardrobes every month, this is, more-or-less, a one-time implementation. 160 slots hardly seems worth $48 a year to me ($96 for my two accounts), especially when I, personally, have gotten by perfectly fine even before Wardrobe 1.

[AoiX]

Throwing in the sack a second grain of sand: With mounts they will also add premium mounts you can only get by paying. If the trend goes that way they will also want money for exclusive paid gear (even if it's just for lockstyle with no real stats there). The formula proved well on FF14. It's only natural they want to expand their profit.

[Sirmarki]

I don't agree with this at all. A lot of people will say "Well, its half the price of a coffee" but they are missing the point..

Storage has always been an issue, and is even more if you Fish and Craft. This is something in the game that requires a fix, not some chargeable "bonus" content. Sorting out items in your inventory is not fun, and is very time consuming, it falls into the category of 'quality of life'.

Are we going the way of Pay-Per-Content AND subscription combined? What next? Mounts? Weapons?

[VoiceMemo]

I think this would start a slippery slope for the state of the game. Yes if you have mules you pay for more space, but mules can be lvled too and can do quests and such. This is just paying for space ONLY. What's next? Paying for spells monthly? Paying for gear/weapons? If it was a one time fee, that I would be ok with, but to have it monthly just for space, I'll probably pass.

[Stompa]

I don't agree with this at all. A lot of people will say "Well, its half the price of a coffee" but they are missing the point..

Storage has always been an issue, and is even more if you Fish and Craft. This is something in the game that requires a fix, not some chargeable "bonus" content. Sorting out items in your inventory is not fun, and is very time consuming, it falls into the category of 'quality of life'.

Are we going the way of Pay-Per-Content AND subscription combined? What next? Mounts? Weapons?


I don't see this as a first step for a future of micro-transactions / cash shop. This is extra storage, the same way we pay for extra mules and send them loads of stuff to hold for us. This optional storage fee allows you have that extra storage without spamming mule delivery boxes all day long. Cancelling two mule IDs would pretty much cover the costs of getting the new super storage.

People saying "the game is so old" and "cash shop mounts are coming" are not seeing the contradiction here. If SE wanted FFXI to have been microtransactions / cash shop, the time would have been ten years ago, when the game was a mainstream hit. That is when they could have sold Mythics and black chocobos and made a fortune from it.

They did not add Cash Shops when the game was at maximum potential commercially, because they understand that many core FFXI players would have quit in droves. People who buy Cash Shop stuff will typically get bored of the game and go somewhere else anyway, they are not a long-term subscription audience. People playing FFXI for over a decade are doing it partly because there are no Cash Shops, and if you want nice stuff you have to earn it. This is actually why FFXI is such a brilliant game, and why it has survived for such a long time.

[Immortta]

SE, please use the money you gain from this to get into XI.... Don't use it on XIV lol

[OmnysValefor]

Like with the abandonment of the XP grind, party-centric grinding and upending of the gearing paradigm, FFXI has been known to change course.

I too think this is a dangerously slippery slope and offers no incentive for them to actually alleviate inventory problems. In fact, like ibm said, the incentive is there to make us need more inventory space.

There is a plethora of ways they could make inventory manageable in this game without adding more boxes
- make meds stack to 99
- let us store gear that has never been storable like magian weapons and the voidwatch armor (I do not want to drop my heka's kalasiris or mekira or toci's)
- let us store abyssea stones (all mine are muled) and abyssea "papers" (also muled). I just never know when I might feel like digging a job out. So yeah, I have this stuff. It's not my inventory problem though, because it's muled.
- JSE capes really should have been all jobs and the base item a key item (something purchased with JP perhaps? essentially another JP gift). If you make this purchaseable at 0 JP into a job then hardcore players are at no significant advantage.

[Hachiiiiii]

Keep going S-E. Create the FFXI fantasia, even if it's just options on a menu through the account management page. Hit me with that good microtransation.

[Chipmunkys]

What most people aren't seeing here is the direction SE is taking FFXI now. There as never been a cashshop in FFXI before, and finally there is one. Also SE has already stated lots and lots of more gear is to come to help bridge the gap between current players and i135+ cl mobs. Point being if you want to get into end game content you're gonna need that gear, but where are you going to put it!? Right now majority of us can say screw the fee i'm not paying for it, but just wait another few months then people will have to make that decision. Either retire a job or buy the new space. But I got off topic here, the point I see in this is, this is just the beginning. With this Mogwardrobe 3 & 4 subscription fee tells us the next Quality of Life improvement will cost you money too. Maybe not a monthly fee, but will be one-time fee minimum. Welcome to the new future of pay-to-play FFXI

[Stompa]

What most people aren't seeing here is the direction SE is taking FFXI now. There as never been a cashshop in FFXI before, and finally there is one. Also SE has already stated lots and lots of more gear is to come to help bridge the gap between current players and i135+ cl mobs. Point being if you want to get into end game content you're gonna need that gear, but where are you going to put it!? Right now majority of us can say screw the fee i'm not paying for it, but just wait another few months then people will have to make that decision. Either retire a job or buy the new space. But I got off topic here, the point I see in this is, this is just the beginning. With this Mogwardrobe 3 & 4 subscription fee tells us the next Quality of Life improvement will cost you money too. Maybe not a monthly fee, but will be one-time fee minimum. Welcome to the new future of pay-to-play FFXI

On the new gear for higher level mobs, surely it will be the same as my Delve 1 completed armor sets that I tossed, when I got Delve 2 gear. There is only a certain number of pieces that stand out as incredible situational pieces (which I must keep hold of), most of the upgrades I'm making are tossing old low-accuracy gear and using new high-accuracy gear. Why wouldn't this trend continue?

I have been against the ilvl gearwheel since the start, but looking forwards from today, I don't see why future gear would change the current situation where I toss gear from six months ago to make space for new gear. It isn't the model I would have wanted, but it has been a constant since 2013, if new gear arrives why should I keep my current inferior gear. Very few of the new pieces I've got have game-changing jobspecific bonuses, most of it is just higher DEF and accuracy, they can be replaced in future by more of the same.

On the new mercenary capitalist stuff, that wouldn't explain why SE are letting people download the full game plus expansions for FREE, and play for free in special events. It also wouldn't explain how I got a second floor in my MH, mog-patio, and loads of wardrobe/storage slips/etc. space for free.

There's a lot of new stuff which is bundled free with your basic subscription. Rhapsodies of Vana'diel was a work of genius, it was outstanding, and it cost nothing to install.

They're not turning into predatory capitalists, they're just offering you subscription based extra storage, without the hassle of paying for storage mules and sending things back and forth to mules. I don't need extra space, but if I did, I would cancel a few of my mules, and that would pay for my new wardrobes.

[Shadowlina]

The only kind of transactions i personally am OK with is some of the following:
-Cosmetics (Self explanatory)
-Gender/Race changer (Self Explanatory)
-Name Changing (Some people have a name they dont like and have had it for years)
-Mounts (Iffy, but it'll do)

That being said. This directly effects gameplay. its not super Pay to win. But it does effect gameplay quite a lot. It means 2 more JSE capes for some. The ability to more than over gear 1 job. etc.

But there's been no confirmation on what this will go towards. The game (FFXI), or something else.
Bare in mind, i'm one of the people who played Final Fantasy Grand Masters, and it was very... hmmm, Pay to win to me. FFXI has had some bad press because of that whole fiasco. That being said, there are other things i don't mind it going towards. But if it means boosting the in-game stuff for FFXI, i'm down.

[vienne]

This directly effects gameplay. its not super Pay to win. But it does effect gameplay quite a lot. It means 2 more JSE capes for some. The ability to more than over gear 1 job. etc.

But there's been no confirmation on what this will go towards. The game (FFXI), or something else.
Bare in mind, i'm one of the people who played Final Fantasy Grand Masters, and it was very... hmmm, Pay to win to me. FFXI has had some bad press because of that whole fiasco. That being said, there are other things i don't mind it going towards. But if it means boosting the in-game stuff for FFXI, i'm down.

Thats the big question mark is it? Think for alot of people this matters alot. I've supported this game for almost ten years now and t never felt like a waste of money, but at this point SE wont guarantee the extra £/€/$ will go towards ffxi... Personally i doubt it would. Unless they'd for once give people a decent peek at what the future might hold. If they had concrete plans they might change the mindset of alot of people who are angry right now (including myself).

[Castanica]

I don't care about this as much as I normally would, here is why.

FFXI with subscription only inventory space gives 720 inventory spaces (and the ability to send items to alts and vast amounts of npcs that store items)
One time item purchase grants an additional 80 spaces.

Monthly sub of $2 gives an additional 160 spaces.

If you can't manage with 720 spaces you're an extreme horder. I hated it on xiv because they give you almost no free options to upgrade inventory space, that is not the case here.

[Castanica]

Well the problem here is they said last year there wont be anymore expansions.
I agree with the fact that we already pay full price for a what? 15 year old game. They have stated they have no intent to upgrade the UI, they cant make new content cause of the not available devkits. And now they want to milk it like this, its a slap in the face for the people who have supported this game for so long.

Almost every mmorpg on the market does not get expansions, expansions doesn't mean no more content.

[vienne]

Almost every mmorpg on the market does not get expansions, expansions doesn't mean no more content.

Have you seen any new decent content lately?

[Mooboomagoo]

I was in game complaining about this being a scuzzy thing to do and they pointed out something I hadn't considered. By implementing more storage space they face the very real chance of people cancelling some of their mules because they need less space. The subscription fee for the wardrobes is likely there to offset this problem.

I'm not saying that makes this alright, because I think inventory management is the biggest problem in the game and charging to fix that feels wrong. It is a little more understandable when you think of it in these terms, though. I also think that the price is too high for what you get; the extra wardrobes should cost more than an entire character.

[Eaglestrike]

Prices for everything else I pay for in life has increased in the last 13 years, I'm okay with SE making this optional.

That said, they need to come out with some new endgame content and soon.

[Morovich]

I was in game complaining about this being a scuzzy thing to do and they pointed out something I hadn't considered. By implementing more storage space they face the very real chance of people cancelling some of their mules because they need less space. The subscription fee for the wardrobes is likely there to offset this problem.

I'm not saying that makes this alright, because I think inventory management is the biggest problem in the game and charging to fix that feels wrong. It is a little more understandable when you think of it in these terms, though. I also think that the price is too high for what you get; the extra wardrobes should cost more than an entire character.

Did you mean shouldn't? Cause the extra wardrobes are $2 each, an extra character is $1 each.

[Castanica]

I will not play their little game, they are already doing it on pretty much all of their other games. I always said to myself that if something like this happened in FFXI I would probably end up leaving.

We are already paying full subscription price for a game that cannot be developped anymore, there is no reason at all we should be paying a penny more for this game considering SE never made any effort to upgrade the game or give it the attention it deserved.
Now I understand why all this augmenting system went completely out of hand, they probably already had this in mind.

To be fair the subscription is less now than it used to be, if you think otherwise you don't understand how inflation works.

[Morovich]

Idk why people are getting upset over this, it's an optional and it's only for gear, equipment not for any other items. Frankly I have more non gear/equipment items then regular gear/equipment items for storage. If you don't want to pay and always make more characters which course should be paying for or pay the two or $4 and have the extra wardrobes for your one character. I see most upset because I feel that it should have been three things that's good well extra stuff probably creates extra expenses no doubt hence they got to charge for the extra storage.

I see someone saying this is like it pay to win frankly I don't think I don't see how having to be able to store more items creates an advantage, that's just me. I am an hoarder of items so if I decide to do it this will be nice, it's only $2 or $4 extra it's no big deal I can always extra storage space.

[Secondplanet]

When have we had a noticeable update to this game? I think this is a slap in the face to all of us who have stood with the game for such a long time. Everyone knows our subscriptions were used to make XIV instead of updating/upgrading XI when they tried throwing Abyssea at us to finish the game off and when XIV bombed they came crawling back to us for more money and more support.

I am far from amused from them holding us doing job ransom with this. If you play 2-3 of the wanted jobs to try to gear up jobs you actually like most of your inventory are being used with the "have to" jobs. I love playing summoner but have cor and geo geared and between all those jobs and gear swaps sets all of my wardrobes are already full and i want to play monk of the side which has to be onhand. I refuse to pay more into a game that has very little support as it is. If our subscriptions went down after Xbox/PS2 support went down i wouldn't mind but we're paying the same fee for 1/3 the service and i'm guessing 1/10 the staff.

[Castanica]

When have we had a noticeable update to this game? I think this is a slap in the face to all of us who have stood with the game for such a long time. Everyone knows our subscriptions were used to make XIV instead of updating/upgrading XI when they tried throwing Abyssea at us to finish the game off and when XIV bombed they came crawling back to us for more money and more support.

I am far from amused from them holding us doing job ransom with this. If you play 2-3 of the wanted jobs to try to gear up jobs you actually like most of your inventory are being used with the "have to" jobs. I love playing summoner but have cor and geo geared and between all those jobs and gear swaps sets all of my wardrobes are already full and i want to play monk of the side which has to be onhand. I refuse to pay more into a game that has very little support as it is. If our subscriptions went down after Xbox/PS2 support went down i wouldn't mind but we're paying the same fee for 1/3 the service and i'm guessing 1/10 the staff.

Just going to point out a few things.

Less players mean less profits overall, the game makes less profit than it used to. If they dropped the sub anymore it would not make any profit and would cease to be worth running. FFXI is a business, it has to run according to rules of a business. Sure it has less developers now but it makes less money than it used to also, everything has to be run within its means.

Nobody needs an extra 2 inventory slots at all, you can function perfectly fine without and swap gear around before you go if you have so many. Teh game is far less gear intensive than it used to be, and it used to have far less space then. They are QoL additions above and beyond.

Inflation and the sub being the same price as it was 12 years ago means the price has in reality dropped quite a lot, you are paying less in real terms than you used to. Every other service we pay for increases every other year or so.

Some are implying that this is something we would of obtained for free, there is no guarantee that if not for it being a paid service we would of had it at all because it does add additional load to the servers and wasn't really needed.

As for very little support. The game is getting monthly updates, what more are you expecting exactly? That's more than ffxiv and wow get.

[xiozen]

Pretty sure Abyssea was created as a "last hurrah" for the game and nothing more was supposed to come. And then we ended up with Seekers. I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up getting a new addon somewhere along the way.

I agree. Looking through milked glasses can sometimes make the most wonderful shapes... in other words, just because it appears to be murky, doesn't mean it's not beautiful.

This "could" be an indication to determine continued interest in game longevity... cause logically speaking if you need more space, you'll be playing more content; perhaps the more folks add space (3&4) can be an indication of the health of the overall games continued longevity which could, theoretically, cause an expansion or two down the road...

[xiozen]

Just going to point out a few things.

Less players mean less profits overall, the game makes less profit than it used to. If they dropped the sub anymore it would not make any profit and would cease to be worth running. FFXI is a business, it has to run according to rules of a business. Sure it has less developers now but it makes less money than it used to also, everything has to be run within its means.

Nobody needs an extra 2 inventory slots at all, you can function perfectly fine without and swap gear around before you go if you have so many. Teh game is far less gear intensive than it used to be, and it used to have far less space then. They are QoL additions above and beyond.

Inflation and the sub being the same price as it was 12 years ago means the price has in reality dropped quite a lot, you are paying less in real terms than you used to. Every other service we pay for increases every other year or so.

Some are implying that this is something we would of obtained for free, there is no guarantee that if not for it being a paid service we would of had it at all because it does add additional load to the servers and wasn't really needed.

As for very little support. The game is getting monthly updates, what more are you expecting exactly? That's more than ffxiv and wow get.

Thumbs up. Excellent points all around.

[Olor]

I feel like the game is already pretty darn expensive. Given the tiny updates we're getting right now, the price is a bit ridiculous, especially for Canadians who are forced to pay in American dollars.

STILL: I will pay to unlock these wardrobes for sure because I know it will make playing more fun for me. What it likely means is I will drop my sub more often and play less consistently because unless I have the time to put a lot of hours into the game the price just isn't worth it.

[Castanica]

I feel like the game is already pretty darn expensive. Given the tiny updates we're getting right now, the price is a bit ridiculous, especially for Canadians who are forced to pay in American dollars.

STILL: I will pay to unlock these wardrobes for sure because I know it will make playing more fun for me. What it likely means is I will drop my sub more often and play less consistently because unless I have the time to put a lot of hours into the game the price just isn't worth it.

You do? $3 a week for how many hours entertainment? I can't think of any other game that offers even small updates for that price. Ever single player game I play that offers dlc gives far less for far more money.

[Secondplanet]

Less players mean less profits overall, the game makes less profit than it used to. If they dropped the sub anymore it would not make any profit and would cease to be worth running. FFXI is a business, it has to run according to rules of a business. Sure it has less developers now but it makes less money than it used to also, everything has to be run within its means.

While the price hasn't gone up it hasn't gone down either when the drop of PS2/XBOX support, 1/3 of the resources should atleast lower the cost to play.


Nobody needs an extra 2 inventory slots at all, you can function perfectly fine without and swap gear around before you go if you have so many. Teh game is far less gear intensive than it used to be, and it used to have far less space then. They are QoL additions above and beyond.

Far less intense then it use to be? last i check back in the good old days monsters didn't spam AoE's every 5 seconds and have instant death moves out the backside, Also many jobs were able to survive AoE attacks but now need a set alone to survive it.


Inflation and the sub being the same price as it was 12 years ago means the price has in reality dropped quite a lot, you are paying less in real terms than you used to. Every other service we pay for increases every other year or so.

As for inflation simple calculations would show the difference is a couple of bucks from when the game had FULL support to almost none now. So you want us to pay more then the original sub fee after inflation to have some extra space minus the support?


Some are implying that this is something we would of obtained for free, there is no guarantee that if not for it being a paid service we would of had it at all because it does add additional load to the servers and wasn't really needed.

SE decided to make this game really focus on gear swapping, they brought about this problem not the players, If players could combine their AF/Relic/Empy gear sets then sure but no attempts have been made to forge gear together but lots has been made to increase gear needed.


As for very little support. The game is getting monthly updates, what more are you expecting exactly? That's more than ffxiv and wow get.

Month updates? They change some monsters in Ambuscade, change the monster in Master Trial and switch which premade event the wheel of destiny spins on. Almost everything done recently can be done with a click of a mouse. Jobs have been unbalanced for such a long time and not many attempts to fix it.

[Olor]

You do? $3 a week for how many hours entertainment? I can't think of any other game that offers even small updates for that price. Ever single player game I play that offers dlc gives far less for far more money.

a) I am not just paying the sub - I paid for all the expansions. Single player games with new content added often are super plentiful and most of them cost significantly less than the price of XI+expansions at full price. I paid full price for almost all of them. That was a lot of money.

b)I have mules because the game is impossible to play without them. Even with new mog wardrobes that doesn't help with all the abyssea stones and seals and other assorted things my mules are carrying for me, so my sub is $19/month currently, not whatever the sub without mules is.

c) I am paying in canadian dollars so it is costing like $7 a week with new wardrobe fee. That's not insubstantial.

d) I have a massive number of unplayed games in my steam account, most bought during bundles etc for under a dollar. I can actually get a tonne of entertainment out of what I already have. FFXI is competing for my attention with other games I own. Are some of these games junk I will never play? Sure, but there are LOTS that are quite good in there. That's not even counting the other games I own that I have already started playing.

e) I bought a game during steam sale for $2 equivalent in American dollars and it is great. I have already put in 30 hours to it and will probably get another 100 hours. That's way more than I would get from a week of XI for way less.

f) the updates to XI right now are not worth mentioning really. For $25-$28 a month I should be getting a lot of new content. I am not getting even 1/10 of a new game's worth of content for that in a month. If I spent that money on new games I am likely to get way more content and enjoyment from that. So that is what I weigh when I decide whether to sub - "will this be more fun than a game I can buy once and have forever for 1/2 the price of a month of XI?"

I really love XI or I wouldn't keep paying for it, but let's not kid ourselves, they are gouging us for what we are getting in terms of updates these days. I will buy the wardrobes because I know it will make my time playing more fun (digging around in sacks for equipment is not fun)... but I will definitely let my sub drop more often because if I don't have time to play much it is not going to be worth it to have the sub up.

[Cesil]

Instead of renting out storage space why don't they worry about other issues, like merging servers. I have friends try to play and then quit because we cant do anything with a world full of 267 people at any given time.

And not even F2P games rent out space..its a one time buy. Not cool dudes :(

[Jerbob]

No. I will not be purchasing any additional wardrobes. While I am not remotely surprised that this scheme is being presented, I am utterly disgusted.

Do not use the term "optional" when referring to inventory space. It is insulting. Inventory space is paramount in this game and SE is entirely aware of this.

This is a slippery slope. Just stop it.

[AoiX]

It's optional. Nobody gonna make you pay for those $4. If you can't afford $4 maybe you should rethink your priorities. It's just a coffee at starbucks...

[Castanica]

I don't say this often and I feel sick being a defender but the entitlement is off the charts here.

[Deirdre]

I was pondering making July my last month in FFXI--- (amusing note there, I nearly typed it as XIV. Cash shop effect!) I don't really care for the game much anymore with the fast paced vertical progression and flavor of the month endgame approach that's been there for awhile. I did want to do all the quests in the Seekers area though, so I decided another month can't hurt.

And then I saw this today--in of itself, it's not that big a deal. But this IS a slippery slope and don't let anyone say otherwise. XIV did it. Started with retainers and fantasia, moved to mounts and weddings and dyes and most recently, pondering a level booster potion. Do you truly think they'll stop here? When it worked so easily in their other MMO?

I'm finished after July, started at PS2 release and the only time I left was to go play ARR, so SE had my subscription there too. Well I quit XIV a year ago and starting in August, I won't be paying SE subscription fees anymore. I seldom post but I felt this was an important enough topic to warrant actually doing it in, so SE reps, if you see this:

I'm leaving your game because of this announcement. After over a decade. You might want to reconsider the effect this is going to have on population, etc, but I'm sure you won't, all you will see are giant dollar signs floating in the air.

[vienne]

It's optional. Nobody gonna make you pay for those $4. If you can't afford $4 maybe you should rethink your priorities. It's just a coffee at starbucks...

I doubt for most of us money is the issue.

[Genz]

I won't be paying for this, since it's for people who play many jobs and I'd like to be able to actually play my Drg before thinking about another.
So work on the balance, please.

[Avina]

I'm not opposed to this, really. I find it bizarre that this would motivate to quit, as well. It's not screwing over existing players--it's not taking away inventory slots from you.

As its been mentioned, if you are currently at the cap for your inventory slots, you are a bit of a hoarder. Which is exactly what I am--but I don't care to be particularly diligent about clearing my inventory out. That's a hassle to me. Something like this may help me out a lot.

With the declining player base, the XI team is likely needing to find means to justify keeping the servers on. That means potentially seeking ways to generate extra revenue from the existing player base. This has been a move that they probably wanted to avoid, but became a financial necessity.

Over the past several years, the team has given us a lot of things for free, just for the sake of improving the quality of life. It was not long ago that we didn't have a Mog Safe 2, a Mog Wardrobe, a Mog Wardrobe 2. Or the ability to store crystals. Or a multitude of other things. We got our Mog Wardrobe 2 in February.

You can complain about XIV's cash shop model. I personally don't care for it much as well. But you can't blame them for recognizing that is a financially successful system.

Not to mention, each wardrobe is still pretty dang cheap. $2 a month. That's like, choosing to not getting a pop from a vending machine twice a month.

[detlef]

The game is a super cheap form of entertainment and as far as I know, the sub has never increased over the years so we're paying less than we did in 2002. That said, over the years we were always paying with the understanding that our sub fees were going back into game development. While it's nice that the game is still going and new content is still being released, you would think that the current sub fee should be able to cover whatever they plans they have for the storage fees.

That said, I do not have a problem with providing something like additional storage for a fee because you are only paying for convenience. You are not paying to become stronger. However, I think it should have been a one-time fee rather than something you have to pay on a monthly basis.

[Loris]

Chiming in to say that I unsubbed today, for the final time, after 12 years of on/off play. Its not specifically the fee for Wardrobes 3 & 4, its the slippery slope that this starts with cash shop nonsense.

[Svens]

Why don't they just make us pay for our mog lockers with real money as well?

/s

[Olor]

Where is this info coming from anyway? I don't see any announcements...

[Sirmarki]

Where is this info coming from anyway? I don't see any announcements...

The main website, on the front page news...

[Cesil]

Where is this info coming from anyway? I don't see any announcements...

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/envi/wardrobe/index.html

[Mithlas]

Edit: Thanks for the source!

This is complete nonsense.

It's not our fault that playing the game requires so much inventory space - it is the fault of the designers.

[Iromi]

LMFAO oh man they wanna do stuff like this now huh? i think they may want to put charging for stuff like this to the side till they fix the population problem on the servers

[Sirmarki]

Come to think of it... Wasn't something like this done before?

When you purchased a secure key, you also got additional storage with it. Then they made it free after sometime.

[Cesil]

LMFAO oh man they wanna do stuff like this now huh? i think they may want to put charging for stuff like this to the side till they fix the population problem on the servers

Yeah see? Good to know at least I am not the only one seeing this issue lol. Priorities SE....

[Kylos]

Oh my. My experience from other games who had online shops, or were free-to-play and began offering game-changing rewards for real money .. were games that ending up losing their playerbase and don't exist anymore.

I once played a game called Mythos. I loved the hell out of that game and was addicted. It was free to play, but the same week they added an online shop was the week the game lost so many players. No one thought it was fair that you could pay your way through the game. Yes, SE has not offered us 99 Primeval Brews in Reisenjima for the sweet deal of £5 a month ... but what if they do? What if they start charging for game-breaking rewards?

That's what I'm worred about, and I'm guessing that's what others are worried about. I wouldn't have minded if they raised the monthly fee a little bit for everyone and we got the wardrobes and other cool things without any choice in the matter. But the fact it's optional? It means the system will likely expand in the future, and if anyone does buy these ... it will get worse. They will try to squeeze as much money out of us as possible. Once it gets so far, people will see it as a game where real money = game progression, and that's not what FFXI is about. We already have trouble on some of the quieter servers ... so I'm really worried now.

Luckily I only play a few jobs and don't need 4 mog wardrobes. But I feel for those who play 7-8 jobs and continue to struggle. Why should they be paying more per month because they like to play many jobs? While I can get away with it because I only play 3-4? That's the real worry here, and I see why some are angry about it. Those who encourage this "shop" mentality from SE will only damage the game in the long run.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind if they charged for race changes, sex changes, skin colours (brown-skinned Galka anyone?), name changes, or even to delete previously used linkshell names so you can use them again (like when someone stole my old LS name when Hades merged into Cerberus ..), but to go as far as adding more wardrobes is punishing those who play many jobs in endgame which isn't fair because the most dedicated players shouldn't be paying extra.

Hell, give a new/returning player the option to have Triple EXP for a week for the sweet price of £3. Stuff to help returning players get back into the game would be cool, and I reckon some would pay a little extra to get back into the flow without having to solo old content for weeks. Punishing the dedicated players and making them pay more for something they really should be getting anyways .. is a Jean-Luc Picard facepalm.

http://picardfacepalm.com/picard-facepalm-hotlink.jpg

[mekia]

This thread is hilarious specially the kids who leave the game over something optional lol it's amazing.

[Morovich]

People don't mind it that are playing Final Fantasy XIV. Granted may be upset at times for different items that may be added to the optional service but these items are novelty or cosmetic items they don't add or detract 2 gameplay. Will this make you a better player now will make you a bad player now this just gives you more item slots for storage no more no less. In other words, a lot of you are overreacting to this.

Again this is OPTIONAL if you don't have a problem managing your storage then kudos to you, then this won't affect you as you will have no need to do it unless you want to.

[Deirdre]

Hi! I'm one of those kids overreacting to this! Guess what, however? I've played XI a very long time and at various times I've had multiple mule characters, so the idea of indirectly paying for storage doesn't matter in that way. Nor is it the money aspect of it.

So...then...why does it leave such a bad taste in my mouth? Because this late in the game, a sudden change of "give us extra money and we'll give you extra things!" terrifies me as a direction. Do you truly believe that if people buy this, that SE will stop pushing things in exchange for cash? Because I watched this exact argument over and over on the XIV forums from the day they added extra retainers for fee. Those of us that are upset are not upset over the money aspect of it; I think the majority of us can easily handle that. But this has a feel to me of SE's company heads asking how they can make XI more profitable, and to begin shifting over to that style of philosophy.

Tl;dr: this late in the game, probably means SE wants to push a cash shop and will continue to add to it if the majority are ok with this.

[Diavolo]

This thread is hilarious specially the kids who leave the game over something optional lol it's amazing.

This is indeed a slippery slope and one I have little doubt SE will continue to exploit if you allow them to. How many other games on the market today charge you $13/month or more as a bare minimum to login and play? How many of those increase their monthly fees for in-game advantages such as this?

As someone else mentioned, using purely cosmetic changes and mounts to bring in some cash is something I can easily get behind, but I'm not paying US $48/year for two extra wardrobes that don't justify the cost at all. Show me that money will be put towards bettering FFXI in the form of a few new development team members and I might change my tune.

[Cesil]

I can't speak for others but I am not giving them a dime extra until they fix these low server population issues.

And yeah..this is only the beginning. But again..I am okay with race change/name/server change services. I think renting out inventory space is kind of a low blow..and no, money is not an issue, its the principle or the matter. Once they realize they can get away with this, wait till you see what they bring next ;) In FFXIV it started off with fantasia, after being promised we could change skin and eye in the barbershop, nope..they took that away and never let us do that..and why? Because people are eager to spend 10 dollars just to change their eye color.

There is a reason they are doing what they are with the mobile game, anyway..all these people supporting it will see soon enough. It's fine if you're okay with it...I am not judging, but just saying...this is gonna take an interesting turn.

[Selindrile]

The only way this would've been acceptable to me is if they announced that the monthly fee was to be done away with, and this were to come with a plethora of other cash shop options. Even then I'd have been somewhat annoyed that inventory was on the cash shop options in the first place rather than simply cosmetic considerations.

Expecting us to pay a full price monthly fee for a 14 year old game with what's likely to be a cash shop on top of it, and starting right in with things that everyone feels like they already need? That just feels really bad... not paying for the wardrobe, and not saying I'm going to quit.. yet... but unless they change their stance on this, I may, and if they do more things of this ilk in the future, I'm definitely gone.

[Kylos]

A one-off transaction is fine. Even more so when it's an expansion, as you're paying for the time they put into making and implementing it. In this case you're paying extra per month for a tiny feature, which is fine for some, but it's an indication of the future for others. If SE 100% guaranteed the extra money would go towards supporting the game, then that would be a selling point .. but at the moment it looks like a money grab. Read the description on the website where it says:

"We've heard from many of you that your bags are getting to be a touch cramped, and hope that the introduction of these optional, fee-based wardrobes will ease the burdens of adventurers who play a variety of jobs with large amounts of equipment."

Firstly, they admit to a fundamental flaw with the game. Then they "hope" this introduction would please those suffering from a flaw created by the developers. Again, they mention the word "burden", which is something they put on the playerbase by adding augmented gear you can't store. They specifically end it by targeting players who play many jobs .. which I'm sure if you played endgame content, know that versatility is encouraged. You are asked to level and gear several different types of jobs if you join an Event LS.

It charges those players, the ones who have many jobs available for events. I love it when I'm making parties and they can switch jobs depending on who shows. Instead of fixing the burden, they charge extra and expect them to appreciate the 160 spaces they should have anyways. By adding this fee, some players may feel discouraged and stick to fewer jobs.

But this isn't about mog lockers entirely, personally I am worried there will be more money grabs in the future. This is not free-to-play, so perhaps they won't, maybe this will be the one money grab aside from server transfers for the following years. If that's the case, then I can live with that.

You know what would make sense? If you got more wardrobe space the more jobs you had on 99. Give us in-game incentive to level and gear all jobs so more players would look at wardrobe 3&4 as a viable option. Wardrobe 5 anyone? At least then, all players would have a maximum of 3 if they level all jobs and decide not to pay extra. At least that would go someway in fixing this "burden".

[Olor]

OMG $2 each?!? That's actually outrageous... $2 total I could see but $4 is stupid.

[OmnysValefor]

No. I will not be purchasing any additional wardrobes. While I am not remotely surprised that this scheme is being presented, I am utterly disgusted.

Do not use the term "optional" when referring to inventory space. It is insulting. Inventory space is paramount in this game and SE is entirely aware of this.

This is a slippery slope. Just stop it.

Quoting in hopes that more people read this..

[Hyrist]

*shurg* I haven't filled one Wardrobe, I doubt I'll fill four. They won't get any additional money from me for this.

I can see people hating this on principle, and don't doubt that they're going to leave. But I wonder how many of us who are silent are going to pick up on this?

As far as people decrying it. It likely wasn't designer's decision so much as it was Marketing's. Designers were looking for a way to fix inventory issues, found a way to expand the use-load on characters and Marketing swooped in and said "What' you're providing them MORE information traffic to the same number of subscribers without any additional payment? Nope. Not happening. We don't live in a stagnant market, friend - bandwidth costs money, and the price is going up." And took two of the four bags they originally had planned.

Would not be surprised that they're going to do more of this to try to cover rising costs. Will it kill the game? Donno, but game is already in its twilight. Marketing is probably trying to recuperate any potential losses development incurs with all these quality of life fixes.

Do I like it personally? Nope, not really. But I understand the market.

[Deirdre]

I did see an excellent argument over at FFXIAH that this is testing the waters for how well the XI players would react to microtransactions in anticipation of the full release of the Mobile spin-off. The timing on this would make a great deal of sense if that's the reason behind it.

[Rezeak]

Basically, stuff like this is what you use on a free to play model not on users that some have spent $1000+ on your game.

That said, I'm not surprised Square Enix will milk every cent from it's users and ips when they know there will be no PR backlash.

[Castanica]

Just going mention that the vast majority of players don't care about this and indeed more will buy it than complain about it.

Only a tiny minority complain or care, this has been proven time and time again on multiple forums for multiple games. On xiv far more people buy all the stuff form the cash shop than complain about it and it makes the game profitable even though it doesn't have that many players compared to big games like wow. I know that at least some of the people complaining in here bought stuff form the xiv cash shop.

[Selindrile]

Only a tiny minority of the playerbase will comment either way, I'm not sure what your point is there, even people who are annoyed by it might pay for it for a while, but add it to their list of annoyances that might drive them off the game, whether it will be a net gain or loss in total amount spent on FFXI, that depends on a number of factors.

I just hope that at the end of the day, the player feedback and PR issues may make them change their minds, it's rare, but it's happened in the past.

[Deirdre]

Just going mention that the vast majority of players don't care about this and indeed more will buy it than complain about it.

Only a tiny minority complain or care, this has been proven time and time again on multiple forums for multiple games. On xiv far more people buy all the stuff form the cash shop than complain about it and it makes the game profitable even though it doesn't have that many players compared to big games like wow. I know that at least some of the people complaining in here bought stuff form the xiv cash shop.

Yes, but with the current population in XI, I would venture to say that even a fairly small amount caring could have some rather dramatic effect on some servers if well known players leave.

[Raydeus]

Just going mention that the vast majority of players don't care about this and indeed more will buy it than complain about it.

Only a tiny minority complain or care, this has been proven time and time again on multiple forums for multiple games. On xiv far more people buy all the stuff form the cash shop than complain about it and it makes the game profitable even though it doesn't have that many players compared to big games like wow. I know that at least some of the people complaining in here bought stuff form the xiv cash shop.

The main difference here is that the player base is in average much older. A lot of us have been playing since either release (JP or NA with Zilart), so we are on average much older than the players in XIV who are more used to this kind of stuff. Which is also why drama isn't really a thing in this forum. We are far too old for that crap.

That is why you are repeatedly seeing in this thread that the issues people have with this are more focused on the scummy aspects of it rather than the money itself. In many players' cases we started playing back in school and grew up playing the game while we grew up and got an income, so 4 bucks or 25 a month isn't really a concern for the most part. It's the act, and the way it's being implemented when considering it in the context of how the game has been handled up until now.

It is the fact that the money is far more likely to go towards XIV, XV or whatever mobile garbage they are developing than being used to better XI. It is the fact that many of us have extra mules we don't even need just so we can contribute a bit more to the game, but SE still feels the need to try and gate inventory space behind a paywall (as trivial an amount of money as it may be) like we are playing some disposable F2P game. Etc. etc.

That is the kind of thing that rubs me the the wrong way, and I'm not the only one. So like Selindrile said, whether this is ends up being a reason to quit or not at the very least it is another item in the list of annoyances that can kill this game for people.

[VoiceMemo]

* The fee is $2.00/30 days for either Mog Wardrobe 3 or Mog Wardrobe 4.

* The fee is $4.00/30 days for both Mog Wardrobe 3 and Mog Wardrobe 4.

Doesn't this seem a bit odd, normally when you buy 2 of something there is a savings associated. I could see buying 3 and 4 for $3, a $1 savings. But the way they worded it why even say the 2nd part, as its still the same cost per wardrobe.

[Corvi]

I think SE forgot we are ALREADY paying them money each month to play, despite they put out minimal content to begin with. Now days, a lot of MMO are either free to pay or use micro-transactions, running a subscription based MMO is already an exception instead of the norm. Now they want to charge MORE than the average MMO subscription fee for an aged MMO. Seriously.

It was their fault to introduce an augment gear system that can't be delivery box or storage slip to begin with. Now they want us to pay for the side effect of their un-thought-through design. They are either out right dumb, or carefully planned this right from the start.

A storage slip that keep unity item or capped augment abj armor can easily solve the inventory problem other than a wardrobe.

[Vold]

I'd be lying if I said I was disappointed about this at first glance. My first thought was 'hell yes' but logic quickly took over.

I guess my 38ish dollars a month for this game didn't warrant them giving me these bags for free...

My point is, why would they ever think this would fly when 1)no more major updates 2)no more expansions-not that we got alot of them over FOURTEEN years 3)still paying full price(inflation whatever)after 14 years as if that sub fee is going to anything other than an ultra thinned skeleton XI crew to do nothing but minor updates with what little hardware they have left that works.

But let's pretend that sub fee + mule costs don't exist and charge 2 dolla per wardrobe inventory space.

The sad part is there's some black suits slapping each others backs thinking this was a great idea and it's extremely unlikely it's going to change just because we all in large part object to it because it's an insult. It's apparently the final insult for some players who have already quit.

So we don't get much anymore for our money but we could continue to get that sweet inventory space. Oh wait-

You know, I suspect that the excuse will be that everyone getting WD3&4 would cause too much strain(lol) on the servers so by charging for them, fewer will have access and thus, less strain. If that's the excuse it'd been better to make a highly difficult quest and deal with the whining for that, like along the lines of that afterglow shit. At least then there's no one quitting over it.

[ScreamingInDigital]

People don't mind it that are playing Final Fantasy XIV. Granted may be upset at times for different items that may be added to the optional service but these items are novelty or cosmetic items they don't add or detract 2 gameplay. Will this make you a better player now will make you a bad player now this just gives you more item slots for storage no more no less. In other words, a lot of you are overreacting to this.

Again this is OPTIONAL if you don't have a problem managing your storage then kudos to you, then this won't affect you as you will have no need to do it unless you want to.

Oh, I wouldn't say that. They're more than just "upset" in many cases.

There's many people over in FFXIV who are not happy at all that a cash shop even exists. Every time they add something new to the shop, there's a thread discussing/debating it, with plenty of people saying "Square, knock it off". The latest topic, and arguably most controversial so far, is the so-called "jumping potions" they're "discussing internally". There's been a very vocal backlash ever since they were announced. Still, I fully expect them to be introduced anyway. Yoshida's comments seemed to fall very much in favor of them. They'll just say "there was a lot of support for the idea", while ignoring the amount of dissent it's actually receiving (and it wouldn't be the first time).

After supporting XIV through a lot of problems, since Alpha of 1.0, I finally walked away from it. The jumping potion "discussion" was the last straw for me. Not the potion itself. More that it was the final straw for me that it's even being discussed. It's the most egregious symptom of a bigger problem I've sensed on multiple fronts with that game for some time now. Not to mention that I think it's ridiculous to consider adding something like that to a game that's not even through its first expansion cycle yet. It's becoming ever clearer where they're taking FFXIV, and I have no intention of following them there.

The thing is, like FFXI, FFXIV is a product of and for its time. The market XIV was developed in and for is very, very different than XI's.

To me, a cash shop in FFXIV is not even a "slippery slope". It's an obvious, "no duh", move for that game. I don't *like* it - I hate cash shops in all their incarnations. But it doesn't surprise me. It's a modern MMO, competing in a modern market; and "all the other kids on the playground are doing it", so...

There's a point where you can tell SE became satisfied they'd successfully regained players' trust after the whole 1.0 mess. Since then, they've made their intentions clearer with every update and announcement, dropping little comments here and there, pushing more and more stuff on to the cash shop, etc. It should be apparent to anyone paying attention to the big picture; seeing the forest for the trees, as it were.

It's only a hunch, so take it with a grain of salt, but I think FFXIV will go either B2P or F2P during its next expansion cycle. That's the direction I think they're taking it. Yoshida's already on record saying they would move to F2P, or a comparable revenue model, if/when it made sense to do so, and that the possibility isn't off the table. In other words, it's already been in discussion, and they've already established parameters for such a change to happen.

Now, with FFXI, on the other hand...

Even with all the concessions and conveniences SE has added to FFXI, it's still *very* much a MMORPG rooted in classic, old-school sensibilities and ideals that appeal to a different market than XIV's. FFXI is its own discrete "weather system", so to speak. It's not competing with anyone. It has nothing more to prove. While modern MMOs compete for space on that playground, FFXI just sits on the sidelines looking on, unaffected. It's succeeded, even while others have come and gone around it. The people who want to play FFXI at this point, are playing FFXI. Those who don't, aren't. That's not to say they shouldn't try to get new players. They should, but moving toward a cash shop is not the way to go about it.

A sentiment I've seen expressed many times over the years, and even still recently, people continue to play FFXI because it isn't like the MMOs FFXIV competes against. IMO, it would behoove SE to do their best to keep their remaining players happy through entirely in-game updates and support, and avoid wading into the murky waters of microtransactions.

I'm sure (or at least hope) SE recognizes this, too. A full-on "modern MMO-style" cash shop in FFXI would be completely anachronistic. It would also likely drive away a large amount of players, however many XI has left.

Plus, since they have the two spin-off games, they can kinda have their cake and eat it, too. They can have their FFXI with a cash shop built in from the start, without having to screw with retro-fitting all of that into the 13+ year old behemoth that is this game.

I could be completely wrong, but all things considered, I just can't see any benefit to screwing with this game. It'd be too much effort and risk for too little gain, overall.

All that said, I don't see adding optional "rental storage" as being a slippery slope. Seems to me it's them basically replacing an ad hoc storage system (alts/mules) with a purpose-created one: actual additional storage, with far more convenient access. Unless I'm missing something, it seems you could move your stuff from the mules over to your storage, and then cancel the mule content IDs, and come out none the worse off, or negligibly so.

So, while it bears keeping an eye on what they may, or may not do in the future, I don't consider this particular option troublesome, nor do I think it's indicative of a slippery slope.

But, as Denis Miller says, "That's just my opinion. I could be wrong".

[Catmato]

I always thought that the Login Points system was their way of figuring out how much they should charge in the cash shop for various items after going free-to-play. I would have put money on that being their big announcement last year.

[Castanica]

Yes, but with the current population in XI, I would venture to say that even a fairly small amount caring could have some rather dramatic effect on some servers if well known players leave.

If they can't find ways to make this game with a small playerbase profitable it will close anyway. Sad fact of life is that if something isn't making decent profits they have to look at other avenues to improve it, or close.

The sword of Damocles hangs over this game at every quarterly financial report. There is a reason every mmorpg on the market that has a sub has optional items, it's not because they are greedy.

If they actually do go back on this decision I will say this games life span will be cut drastically and will probably be the final nail in its coffin, the fact they are looking at ways to make it more profitable is a plus and not a negative.

[xiozen]

Chiming in to say that I unsubbed today, for the final time, after 12 years of on/off play. Its not specifically the fee for Wardrobes 3 & 4, its the slippery slope that this starts with cash shop nonsense.

Obviously it's your choice to unsubscribe at any time for any reason... I would only like to say, my opinion, is that I do not believe the cash shop system is nonsense... it's actually financially sound as a way in which a game that has as many years and as much anchored content as FFXI currently has, searches for ways in which to keep the servers running without having to implement means which would REQUIRE the current player base to pay more. So I welcome these types of changes... because without these types of changes, the adjustments we continue to cry about "job balancing... etc." become moot, since the game would probably end.

[Secondplanet]

Why do people keep saying this is to make the game stay alive and/or increase profit.... last i checked when they got rid of PS2/XBox support they cut 2/3 of the support this game needed as they wouldn't have to maintain 3 different platforms of this game.

[Dazusu]

This is an awful move by SE (IMO), but at the same time - I understand why it has been done in the case of FFXI. Anything that assists the game in staying alive longer is okay by me. So long as it doesn't turn into "pay2win".



Pretty sure Abyssea was created as a "last hurrah" for the game and nothing more was supposed to come.

No. Not at all.

[Castanica]

When they decide the game isn't profitable anymore they will post a message to the players, stating that the game will shut down in a few months time. There will be no discussions with the players, petitions will be ignored and all that will be left will be to make memorial videos of the last few moments before the servers are shut down for the final time as we all stand around in port jeuno and wait for the final "you have been disconnected from the server".

I think none of played CoH and knew the heartache of a game played for many, many years closing and all attempts to save it being in vein.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BUtqOaub8s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpu2hcNDMcE

People are mainly worried about a slippery slope it seems? Big picture, if this game doesn't make enough money it won't be around to worry about other micro transactions.

There is a difference between being on a crusade against micro transactions on a game like xiv where you know they won't shut it down and on xi where it's in its twilight years and has to justify it's existence to the people who hand out the money.

[Jile]

SE... My wife and I love FFXI and have been paying you a pretty penny to play it over the last 11 or so years. (Myself and 6 mules, my wife and 5 mules and an alt account with its own mule for the last several years, so (12.95*3)+12 so I figure I've paid you over $6000 not even counting the game 3x plus expansions 3x...

That said, I find it disturbing you're trying to extort more money from me... really?

Reconsider the flawed decision to extort more money from us.... Frankly you should be LOWERING the monthly fees for a game with only minor updates, rather than raising rates... Raising rates?... Really angry to be honest.

I'll tell you what. I will pay you more money per month when you agree to make another full expansion, before that, you're delusional!

[Deirdre]

If they can't find ways to make this game with a small playerbase profitable it will close anyway. Sad fact of life is that if something isn't making decent profits they have to look at other avenues to improve it, or close.

The sword of Damocles hangs over this game at every quarterly financial report. There is a reason every mmorpg on the market that has a sub has optional items, it's not because they are greedy.

If they actually do go back on this decision I will say this games life span will be cut drastically and will probably be the final nail in its coffin, the fact they are looking at ways to make it more profitable is a plus and not a negative.

I completely understand your position on it, and that's a fair statement. With that being said, however, I think it's the wrong way to go about it-I think by this point the people left playing XI have proven over and over they're pretty loyal to this type of game, and this announcement just feels...wrong. So what then, would have worked better? Personally, I wouldn't have been bothered in the slightest by an announcment that was something to the effect of:

Adventurers of Vana'diel! (insert fluff here), while we have long supported FFXI, budget problems have forced us into a regrettable choice for the future, and the base subscription will be raised from 12.95 to 14.95 for the forseeable future. However, we have been hard at work trying to find a way to reward such loyal customers for their contributions and we are happy to announce Mog Wardrobe 3 and 4 will be available for characters!

As most of us have said, it's not about the money. It's about how this feels and the way they're doing it that just feels....slimy. Something that doesn't belong in an old MMO like XI. "Let us all contribute!" vs "Hey if you have extra cash you can have more stuff instead".

[Cabalabob]

If it was a one time fee I could maybe get behind it, but not a monthly additional charge, I will not be buying these new wardrobes. I won't support ffxi bringing in a cash shop, I've always respected that ffxi didn't do this kind of thing outside of codes that come with their physical merchandise, but ffxi just went down a peg in my book because of this.

[Urmom]

I could maybe see paying for it if this was a newer game with active development... but for a game that is 14 years old and that literally tells us they can't make any new assets and most the staff is gone only new stuff is reskinned mobs and items from easy and fast to develop battles but no "real" new content I mean cmon

[Avina]

I completely understand your position on it, and that's a fair statement. With that being said, however, I think it's the wrong way to go about it-I think by this point the people left playing XI have proven over and over they're pretty loyal to this type of game, and this announcement just feels...wrong. So what then, would have worked better? Personally, I wouldn't have been bothered in the slightest by an announcment that was something to the effect of:

Adventurers of Vana'diel! (insert fluff here), while we have long supported FFXI, budget problems have forced us into a regrettable choice for the future, and the base subscription will be raised from 12.95 to 14.95 for the forseeable future. However, we have been hard at work trying to find a way to reward such loyal customers for their contributions and we are happy to announce Mog Wardrobe 3 and 4 will be available for characters!

As most of us have said, it's not about the money. It's about how this feels and the way they're doing it that just feels....slimy. Something that doesn't belong in an old MMO like XI. "Let us all contribute!" vs "Hey if you have extra cash you can have more stuff instead".

The route you suggested (admitting that financial hardships have necessitated an increase) would never fly by any PR or marketing department. Such a thing would be an open admittance of "we have a problem here" and that just doesn't happen, because it decreases faith in the brand's viability. It also isn't a good REASON to charge existing players more. They have no justifiable reason to raise the monthly rate when content is being churned out as slowly as it is (because the dev team has obviously been slimmed down). You can't justify raising your sub price because you've lost subs elsewhere.

What you can do, is try to get subs from other means that will enhance the experience. If I buy a ticket to a concert, I have options and choices that I need to make. What seat do I want? Do I want food while I'm there? Do I want to pay for valet parking? This is how the rest of the world works. It's really wonderful that XI dodged this model for so many years.

I know it feels like milking the users. I don't think that's the move they are trying to make. You talk about how loyal this player base is--in May, FFXIAH showed 115,000 active player characters. Today, it shows 86,000. Some of those players may be not playing but still paying the subs, others may have left for good. But that's a 36% decrease in active player characters according to one source in about a month's time.

There is absolutely some minimum # of active subscriptions that this game can hit before it goes away for good. Matsui said last year that a F2P, cash shop model had been considered but rejected. The fact that we're seeing something like this now suggests that they've had to go back and revisit some aspects of that plan. But the point is, the game needs to pay for itself.

This is not some attempt on SE's part to just price gouge the consumer. It's more that they are trying to plug a hole in a ship so it doesn't sink. Why else would they do this now?

[Cesil]

From what a lot of my friends tell me, they unsubbed for now and waiting for server merges. Idk if that's why there was a 36% decrease or what.

Most of them don't want to pay for a game with such low populations :/

And it seems others feel the game isn't getting enough new content and said they feel SE is letting the game die. If that is the case that is sad ;;

[Avina]

From what a lot of my friends tell me, they unsubbed for now and waiting for server merges. Idk if that's why there was a 36% decrease or what.

Most of them don't want to pay for a game with such low populations :/

And it seems others feel the game isn't getting enough new content and said they feel SE is letting the game die. If that is the case that is sad ;;

I agree that mergers would do a lot--there are a lot of nearly dead servers out there. I'd almost want one mega server for all players but that's likely a technical mess and competition for drops would be crazy.

I don't feel like SE is wanting to let the game die. But I also think it's wrong to expect something wild and different to come down the pipeline. There just isn't enough people anymore to justify something major like an expansion, unless you can get a few more hundred thousand people to come back.

[Seiowan]

I have absolutely no problems adding a little bonus to my monthly fee for the convenience of extra wardrobes. I have way too much equipment, and not nearly enough room as it stands.

[Cesil]

I agree that mergers would do a lot--there are a lot of nearly dead servers out there. I'd almost want one mega server for all players but that's likely a technical mess and competition for drops would be crazy.

I don't feel like SE is wanting to let the game die. But I also think it's wrong to expect something wild and different to come down the pipeline. There just isn't enough people anymore to justify something major like an expansion, unless you can get a few more hundred thousand people to come back.

Yeah :( It's just whenever I tell or suggest one of my friends to come back...because of that one big announcement SE made 2 years ago I think it was that there will be no more expansions/updates..they are all stuck thinking the game is dead and getting 0 updates. And that Rhapsodies is the "end" and thats it.

I try to tell them noo its still gettin stuff added in just no expansions lol...but I guess to them that is "dead" >.<

[Castanica]

Almost all mmorpg titles don't get expansions, they get updates.

[Jile]

I agree that mergers would do a lot--there are a lot of nearly dead servers out there. I'd almost want one mega server for all players but that's likely a technical mess and competition for drops would be crazy.

If they merged all the servers we might have enough population to fill one server like we had when XI was hot but.... we'd all hate that too because of the competition for every aspect of the game being slammed.

There are days I miss thousands of ppl on Phoenix...... and then I go out and farm mats for crafting and I'm glad I don't have to compete with everyone and their grandma even for elemental clusters in sky lol.

[Cesil]

Almost all mmorpg titles don't get expansions, they get updates.

Yup, that is what I try to tell them...but they won't have it lol. Oh well, their loss! :D

[Paridise]

With paying monthly I won't be adding $4 to my account. Or the 2nd account from same bank account. Not worth it. One time fee like lockers(and with token) was... Maybe. When you look at the players jobs. Who plays 3-6 jobs in same day or few hours of play time. Only player flipping jobs that much ... Very few if any. No reason to pay for 160 spaces. This is for player flipping jobs on the fly in a hurry. Se keeps saying they want players to have time to do events not spend time in travel. Ie. Hp. Ok cool. But to save time flipping job they want money and slow the group down... Wtf.

[Immortta]

"We're currently looking into how to distribute the Ark Angel alter egos so stay tuned for updates!
Thanks for your feedback concerning alter egos you'd like to see in the future and please keep them coming! "

Does this scare anybody else?

[Catmato]

SE, you've been running login campaigns long enough to know what people are willing to pay for. Go free-to-play or pay-to-play. All or nothing; don't half-ass it.

[Diavolo]

"We're currently looking into how to distribute the Ark Angel alter egos so stay tuned for updates!
Thanks for your feedback concerning alter egos you'd like to see in the future and please keep them coming! "

Does this scare anybody else?

Unfortunately.

[Mithlas]

"We're currently looking into how to distribute the Ark Angel alter egos so stay tuned for updates!
Thanks for your feedback concerning alter egos you'd like to see in the future and please keep them coming! "

Does this scare anybody else?

I wouldn't mind paying for them... as long as those are some realllly good trusts. Like, trusts that would replace a player. Since, you know, you would essentially be paying for additional characters. 8D

[Zehira]

I understand SE has made the decision to offer an optional feature to the small community of English players would make them want to complain and moan. I doubt this is an issue to Japanese players whatsoever.

Would be nice if SE don't stop writing more stories for XI though.

[Raydeus]

I doubt this is an issue to Japanese players whatsoever.

I'll just leave this here. :3

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/50928-%E3%83%A2%E3%82%B0%E3%83%AF%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89%E3%83%AD%E3%83%BC%E3%83%96%EF%BC%93%EF%BC%86%EF%BC%94%E7%B7%8F%E5%90%88

[Zehira]

I'll just leave this here. :3

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/50928-%E3%83%A2%E3%82%B0%E3%83%AF%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89%E3%83%AD%E3%83%BC%E3%83%96%EF%BC%93%EF%BC%86%EF%BC%94%E7%B7%8F%E5%90%88

Well, what I meant is (I guess comparing to this link you posted)... People always come back to complain...

Guy) I just want to complain...
SameGuy) Hi, it's me again. I want to complain again...
SameGuyAgain) Hi, why? yes it's me again! I want to complain harder because my opinions matter!

I think you posted 3 times on this thread already. :)

[Vold]

I forgot some points I originally wanted to make:

If they want to charge for that storage, okay. It is optional. I don't think it's worth quitting over. It does let me know that no more free storage is coming. I don't think FFXI players are going to jump on it enmass. 2-4 more dollars a month for this game is a high amount to ask of from a group of players that included some who were still using the PS2 up until this year. Lastly, it's not even fair game to bring up the 'entitled-complain' card that some are doing. It's wardrobes/160 slots locked behind a pay wall. There is no defense for that LOL.

FFXIV is a game you can get away with a cash shop even after a sub fee because many of those kids were brought up on "free" MMOs and was a reason they were attracted to XIV after it was redesigned to attract them. I admit I was somewhat okay with paying 25 dollars for Odin's horse without any of the hassle of earning it. I don't really mind that kind of a cash shop when it involves SE. 25 dollars or some ridiculous extreme difficulty fight with KC drop rates? Yeah I'll spend the 25 dollars and am glad they went that route...

But here? I really would not complain about a vanity cash shop. Especially now that we have lockstyle. But to put access to 160 more storage and wardrobe to boot behind a 2-4 dollar wall...that's just a knee below the belt right there. It was bad enough with how the storage system worked and that they wanted money for retainers in FFXIV(don't even get me started about how mules as we know them here were blocked from working in XIV) I feel like they gave the go ahead for this because we really are top of the food chain now and that "those english speaking folk are definitely ok with paying for nice things!" I'm still flabbergasted that the Japanese lost access to FFXI PS2 and just could not find the funds for the last 14 years to buy a low end PC to continue playing. Just absolutely mind boggling. It's like quitting nicotine cold turkey in my book...

We asked for years, "how many people could really still be playing on PS2s???" and I think after the consoles went offline and the rather massive dip in population afterwards answers that old question quite well. It was a crap load of people still playing on consoles and there's no reason to not assume most were Japanese...

[vienne]

If they merged all the servers we might have enough population to fill one server like we had when XI was hot but.... we'd all hate that too because of the competition for every aspect of the game being slammed.

There are days I miss thousands of ppl on Phoenix...... and then I go out and farm mats for crafting and I'm glad I don't have to compete with everyone and their grandma even for elemental clusters in sky lol.

off topic but...
Yesterday i went to farm clusters in sky from all elements and i saw no one, I'm on Asura one of those more populated server.

[Jile]

off topic but...
Yesterday i went to farm clusters in sky from all elements and i saw no one, I'm on Asura one of those more populated server.

Precisely my point though, 2016 population on most servers vs prime had ~10x more ppl then vs now - you would have had competition in the prime and on a fully combined server you absolutely would have competition.



Back on topic though... With the advent of paid services I wonder how long until SE will fully sell out XI.


Kraken Club, buy it on the SE store for only $199
Ochain lvl99, buy it on the SE store for only $499
Kenkonken, final ilvl119 version, buy it on the SE store for only $999
*All items with a special Money-Green-fire Afterglow, not seen on actually earned items in the game*
Don't forget to join the SE multi item discount program!

[mekia]

This topic still going o.O? Christ people get a grip feels like we are on twitter/tubmlr so much panic panic over something so tiny and optional. And no you wont see REM stuff on there how stupid you think the Dev team is?

[Castanica]

off topic but...
Yesterday i went to farm clusters in sky from all elements and i saw no one, I'm on Asura one of those more populated server.

This is kind of a problem, the answer is to tell people about it!

[Urmom]

"We're currently looking into how to distribute the Ark Angel alter egos so stay tuned for updates!
Thanks for your feedback concerning alter egos you'd like to see in the future and please keep them coming! "

Does this scare anybody else?

Ark angels as it turns out are a greedy bunch that hate your guts and that's why we couldn't add them. But for the low price of $1 a month they can be enticed to fight along side you. Please look forward to it

[detlef]

Could you imagine if you had to rent the ark angels? Good god I couldn't handle it.

[Raydeus]

Could you imagine if you had to rent the ark angels? Good god I couldn't handle it.

They would be heavily discounted if you rented them in bulk though:

1 AA for $1.00 USD /month
5 AA for $5.00 USD /month

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Castanica]

Half the people in this thread will be banned monday.

[Secondplanet]

They would be heavily discounted if you rented them in bulk though:

1 AA for $1.00 USD /month
5 AA for $5.00 USD /month

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Don't forget the Super Ultra Otaku Big Spender Happy Ending Fan Bundle with Extreme Savings.
5 AA trusts + Mog Wardrobe 3 & 4 for $9USD.

[Selindrile]

I'm braced for being forum banned, it's the last push I need to quit after seeing the wardrobe rental and guessing that's the direction this game is headed, I could deal with a cash shop for cosmetics, but things that affect gameplay, even quality of life, no deal.... I'm already miffed about the wardrobe, is 13$ a month +1$ per character not enough for one of the older mmos out there, it's not okay at all by today's standards, along with only minimal content updates, really... it's super disheartening to see things end like this.

[Zeldar]

Chill out people: its OPTIONAL. They are not raising subscription fees, they are offering you the OPTION of getting more by what? PAYING MORE! It sounds reasonable to me . They aren't charging us extra for something we NEED to play, just for something we have begged for. Just think of it as super sizing your wardrobe. You are King Sizing it ! If you ate at McDonalds every day like you probably play in Vana'diel every day, wouldn't it be great to have a $2 monthly charge to upsize your artery cloggers every day???

[Cesil]

Anyone know what the JP are saying about this?

[OmnysValefor]

Yes, it was shared a few pages ago.


I'll just leave this here. :3

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/50928-%E3%83%A2%E3%82%B0%E3%83%AF%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89%E3%83%AD%E3%83%BC%E3%83%96%EF%BC%93%EF%BC%86%EF%BC%94%E7%B7%8F%E5%90%88

There's some disagreement it looks like, going off of Google Translate.

Some people are fine with it, some people are offended by it, some people think it's a good thing if it's somehow the magic potion to revive development of FFXI. A lot like here, but it seems that the vocal JP are more in favor of it than the vocal NA (though some NA are for it, and some JP against it).

[Seiowan]

Some people in this thread have a flair for the dramatic. Having paid additional storage isn't exactly a new concept, even for a subscription based game. It doesn't open any flood gates, it doesn't eat your dog and it doesn't signal the coming of the next apocalypse. It's storage, it's optional, and it's a QoL feature not a magic "give me level 119 afterglow relic" button.

Let's be fair here, they've given us a lot for our subscriptions up to now, and the first two wardrobes are freebies! Having a purchasable bonus storage doesn't magically make your subscription worth less than it did but it does provide a little extra revenue to help keep FFXI running and fund future updates. I think the majority of vocal complaints are from people who want the extra storage, but would rather not pay for it. You can't always have your cake and eat it though.

[Raydeus]

Some people in this thread have a flair for the dramatic. Having paid additional storage isn't exactly a new concept, even for a subscription based game. It doesn't open any flood gates, it doesn't eat your dog and it doesn't signal the coming of the next apocalypse. It's storage, it's optional, and it's a QoL feature not a magic "give me level 119 afterglow relic" button.

Let's be fair here, they've given us a lot for our subscriptions up to now, and the first two wardrobes are freebies! Having a purchasable bonus storage doesn't magically make your subscription worth less than it did but it does provide a little extra revenue to help keep FFXI running and fund future updates. I think the majority of vocal complaints are from people who want the extra storage, but would rather not pay for it. You can't always have your cake and eat it though.

What are you talking about? Of course we'll always want additional storage.

And like I've said before the issue isn't really the money, but the way it's going to be handled. That is why the most important issue among JP and NA players posting and liking posts in both threads is whether or not the money is really going to go towards helping XI keep running and towards updates.

We've all played long enough to know how money going towards XI has kept decreasing ever since XIV was announced. And right now the game is being ran by a skeleton crew that subs alone can more than pay for. So where is this money going? We don't know. And where do you think that money is more likely to go then? Well, that thought you just had is the reason why people feel very iffy about paying an extra 2-4 bucks a month.

If we knew for certain the money would bring back support to XI (programmers, animators, writers, Mizuta-san to compose more music, etc.) NO ONE would be complaining about it and we be all paying those extra 4 bucks with joy. Because like I've said before, a majority of XI players are older people with jobs who grew up playing the game, so the extra money isn't really an issue.

But hey that's just a theory, a... never mind.

[OmnysValefor]

Let's be fair here, they've given us a lot for our subscriptions up to now, and the first two wardrobes are freebies! Having a purchasable bonus storage doesn't magically make your subscription worth less than it did but it does provide a little extra revenue to help keep FFXI running and fund future updates. I think the majority of vocal complaints are from people who want the extra storage, but would rather not pay for it. You can't always have your cake and eat it though.

Let's be honest here, we've paid them good money over the years which leased us access to our characters and the content on our accounts and the wardrobes. Having a further-leasable bonus does diminish the point of subscribing to a video game.

You're absolutely right. I want both wardrobes for no additional cost, but most especially a monthly cost. They still won't be free, because I'm paying to play the game. We don't know one way or the other whether this is a sign of further "rentables" or if it's a one-off thing. Every game that has introduced a cash-shop had to start somewhere, and I've never them just do one thing and then stop.

[Castanica]

Lets be honest here, no matter how much we all paid in the past has no relevance to anything in the real world. I've paid around $400 on my mobile phone provider over the years, you know what that $400 gets me? Squat. You know what they tell me when I phone up and say I'm a long standing customer and I've paid $400!? They ask me to sign up for a 12 month contract going forward, it's worth nothing to anyone. You paid for the service you were given, entertainment from a service provider. You got $600-$800 worth of entertainment and think paying for that service entitles you to anything above and beyond that, it doesn't. You aren't doing them a favor, you paid for what they gave you in the past and if that service had not been good enough, you would of stopped paying. So please, get off your high horse with your listed payments.

Also, if you paid $600 in the past that has no relevance to if it's gonna still be playable tomorrow because you are paying for a service that was provided in exchange for every cent you spent. If income tomorrow dips below an acceptable amount it closes, the end...all your "investment" is gone instantly. If the lead dev wants to argue for a bigger budget for ffxi then he has to goto the financial meeting and prove that it's worth investing more money into. The suits don't want to hear about anything but the game making more money. The money for this won't directly go back into ffxi but a product that is making more money is more likely to get a higher budget at the next financial meetings. A product that has seen profits fall over the year will get its budget cut for the following year, and this game has less players now than it did last year.


End of the day, I want this game to be around for a long time and get a bigger budget. The ONLY singular way either of these things will happen is to increase the amount of money this game makes from the players it has, this is only going to happen by trying to offer services and items above and beyond the basic subscription. The playerbase aint gonna get bigger because it's way to much of a niche title. The only way to increase profits is to attempt to offer services the current players may want.

FFXI is a business, contrary to what the vocal minority think.

If they had said they are increasing subs by $4 for everyone, that would of enraged me and everyone across the board. If they offer additional services for $4, I'm totally fine with that. Offer more, race, name, character changers, optional mounts, trusts, anything. I'll buy stuff and give you money for additional services if I want them and updates continue.

The difference between people for and against is that the people who are ok with it are realists and have probably played other games, the people against it are living in Disney world and probably have never played anything other than ffxi. They think a game can run just fine with less money and where all that matters is their measly $3 a week when devs make 6 figures a year. If you don't like the updates the game is getting now and are against this, you ain't gonna like next year because there are less people playing this year than last and that means it's gonna get a smaller budget and probably even less devs working on it.

Oh and I posted this in another thread but I'll also put it here:


Currently I have 18 mules, with this I get over 650k gil per char (im swapping money for gil), 17 more chances at a defending ring than you per login event. I get 170 extra chances to win the mog lottery and vastly more rare items when they run special key events.

If you have alts, that's basically pay to win right there. If I pay an extra $12 a month and level a geo alt, I'm getting a massive advantage over you.

On another mmorpg I play, you are not allowed to have more than one account because they consider it a huge advantage. It's also f2p so they have no reason to let you do it.

So here is my question, why are the things above ok but an optional extra inventory space when they already give you 800 space for free not ok?

I want someone against this to explain how paying $12 for an alt is not p2w yet this inventory addition is.

[OmnysValefor]

There is absolutely nothing in any agreement that says they will never introduce a cash shop. However, I am disappointed that this is the direction SE has taken and have expressed that.

No, not just once but I have made my opinion clear and will continue to do so. Cash shops have never done well by any playerbase, but at least purely cosmetic items don't hurt anyone. In a game where you're meant to play many jobs on one character, charging for inventory space is charging a premium for something important to the game.

It's strange to me that people both say to the people who claim to be quitting "lol, you're quitting over this" and to the non-quitters "if you don't like it, quit".

[Castanica]

There is absolutely nothing in any agreement that says they will never introduce a cash shop. However, I am disappointed that this is the direction SE has taken and have expressed that.

No, not just once but I have made my opinion clear and will continue to do so. Cash shops have never done well by any playerbase, but at least purely cosmetic items don't hurt anyone. In a game where you're meant to play many jobs on one character, charging for inventory space is charging a premium for something important to the game.

It's strange to me that people both say to the people who claim to be quitting "lol, you're quitting over this" and to the non-quitters "if you don't like it, quit".

First off, which cash shop are you talking about? This is an extra subscription option in the buy new content ID section of playonline. There is no cash shop.

http://www.playonline.com/ff11/envi/wardrobe/img/ss01_en.jpg

Secondly, again. What "direction SE has taken"? You mean the one where they allow level 1 alts to get login points, use gobbie box, buy mog lottery tickets on all chars, or for people to buy power with alternate accounts? You are cherry picking something you feel is "p2w" when the game is littered with far worse anyway.

Where is your outrage at the p2w second account players? That's the most p2w thing in any mmo ever but you have no problem with that it seems?

[Secondplanet]

Lets be honest here, no matter how much we all paid in the past has no relevance to anything in the real world. I've paid around $400 on my mobile phone provider over the years, you know what that $400 gets me? Squat. You know what they tell me when I phone up and say I'm a long standing customer and I've paid $400!? They ask me to sign up for a 12 month contract going forward, it's worth nothing to anyone. You paid for the service you were given, entertainment from a service provider. You got $600-$800 worth of entertainment and think paying for that service entitles you to anything above and beyond that, it doesn't. You aren't doing them a favor, you paid for what they gave you in the past and if that service had not been good enough, you would of stopped paying. So please, get off your high horse with your listed payments.

So using your analogy about this then lets say your cell phone provider said they would be cutting out 2/3 of their phones they support, lower the amount of staff working for them and all around providing less service but keeping the price the same would you be happy? That about sums up what is happening here, less service for the same price and even including inflation still doesn't add up cause a $2-3 shouldn't be the difference between full support with expansions being made and what we have now.


Secondly, again. What "direction SE has taken"? You mean the one where they allow level 1 alts to get login points, use gobbie box, buy mog lottery tickets on all chars, or for people to buy power with alternate accounts? You are cherry picking something you feel is "p2w" when the game is littered with far worse anyway.

Where is your outrage at the p2w second account players? That's the most p2w thing in any mmo ever but you have no problem with that it seems?

As for this comment while i'm not a fan of players duoboxing as most will use programs to play their alt character, but for those who actually duobox with 2 computers i don't really blame them, if it was between me playing 2 characters knowing i know the jobs or picking up a player who might have gone 1-99 in one day, used skill books and thinks reading a wiki page teaches a job i will be happy to play alone.

But as for the mule aspect of this, mules were a big part of the game when i made mine, there wasn't log in events, there wasn't mog bonanzas the mules were made for storage, crafting and banks. Just because SE caught onto the issue years and years after they forced players to resort to such tactics to maintain inventory isn't our problem, they could have made it that only the "main" character of the account could get login points or bonanza balls but they made it that everyone could get them.

[Castanica]

So using your analogy about this then lets say your cell phone provider said they would be cutting out 2/3 of their phones they support, lower the amount of staff working for them and all around providing less service but keeping the price the same would you be happy? That about sums up what is happening here, less service for the same price and even including inflation still doesn't add up cause a $2-3 shouldn't be the difference between full support with expansions being made and what we have now.

If my mobile company sent me a letter saying that they had lost half of their customers so would have to lower the amount of services they can offer me for the same price I would look at what other companies can offer and decide what I want to do. What I would not do is stay with them and then complain about anything and everything because I chose to stick with it, own your choices in life.

When a game loses large numbers of players and the lead developer tells you that going forward it will only get minor updates, you made your informed choice to stay. When a game has 200k players all paying $13 they can offer a level of updates at that budget because they can afford to employ a decent sized team and make a profit, when they have 20k players paying $13 they now have far less money than before so cannot offer the same level of service. Dropping the subscription fee lower because they have a smaller dev team means they will bring in even less money than before and as such they can't even afford to pay the lower level of people they have now. Do you not see the logical result of what you're arguing for? Under normal circumstances this game would of already closed down, they are keeping it running and tryting to find ways to keep it profitable because we, the players begged them to do so. Now, you complain.

I mean for all we know, the developers love this game so much that they took a pay cut to work on in and keep it running.

You're like a man dangling from a clifftop, saved from death and then complaining at your saviour because he farted while he was pulling you up.


As for this comment while i'm not a fan of players duoboxing as most will use programs to play their alt character, but for those who actually duobox with 2 computers i don't really blame them, if it was between me playing 2 characters knowing i know the jobs or picking up a player who might have gone 1-99 in one day, used skill books and thinks reading a wiki page teaches a job i will be happy to play alone.

But as for the mule aspect of this, mules were a big part of the game when i made mine, there wasn't log in events, there wasn't mog bonanzas the mules were made for storage, crafting and banks. Just because SE caught onto the issue years and years after they forced players to resort to such tactics to maintain inventory isn't our problem, they could have made it that only the "main" character of the account could get login points or bonanza balls but they made it that everyone could get them.

I didn't ask if you/he was a fan of dual boxing, I'm straight up saying that it's pay to win by any way you want to measure it, so the slippery slope argument is out the window and into the trash. You pay $12 to get a real and massive advantage over everyone who does not pay that $12, it's pretty simple.

I don't have a problem with it, I have alt accounts but I'm pointing out the nonsense of your arguments.

"this p2w! this is just not acceptable, shame! but this p2w over here? This one is OK!!"

There are tons of people who pay $1 x however many mules to take advantage of mog lottery, gobbie box and login campaigns. This is paying money to get items and/or gil and it's a long running way they have used to increase the games profits, this apparantely does not trigger you but additional inventory when everyone already has more than they know what to do with does.

Sorry but the vocal minority are just being silly here, the vast majority either will or won't get it and really don't care.

Oh and btw, come the day they close this game down due to lack of funds and you or anyone in this thread on the "paying for extras is bad" side of the argument begs them not to and asks why. I'll throw it right back in your face.

[Seiowan]

Let's be honest here, we've paid them good money over the years which leased us access to our characters and the content on our accounts and the wardrobes. Having a further-leasable bonus does diminish the point of subscribing to a video game.You're paying for a service which you have enjoyed for those same number of years so your argument here is a moot point. Additional services do not diminish anything, since they do not take anything away from the service you are currently receiving and enjoying. It is an addition, plain and simple.

It is the people who can't separate the two who are having the hardest time with this issue. For the rest of us, it's pretty cut and dry. By the same logic, what about people who didn't buy Treasures of Aht Urghan? They can't access the Mog Locker, so they can't have that extra storage. Should they magically be entitled because they pay a subscription? You might say the two are totally different because X, Y, Z, but they are in fact one and the same. They are additional services, for an additional fee. Just because you paid for one up-front doesn't change a bean.

[Cesil]

An expansion is a one time buy...not a monthly rent, just sayin...

I mean I dunno, I played ffxi since launch with breaks here and there, and been playing xiv since release and just unsubbed few days ago. The retainer rental never set right with me because...we were promised a free, extra retainer for a year, leading up to 3.0 release. When 3.0 came out we got no free retainer and were told basically, lol sry no retainer cuz if we did that the server will be too stressed.

Ok. But it can survive if everyone rented the extra 8?

I don't need the extra space and if I did I could rent it np, the issue is that there is no explanation why they suddenly need to rent out space and where the money is going and so forth. A little proper communication goes a long way. I left xiv cuz of the stale formula and constant broken promises and lies. I hope this game stays far away from that.

[Vanfrano]

It is only a matter of respect towards the players and no one in their right mind should agree with this decision.

FFXI is the most financially successful FF of all times, almost none of this money went back to the game. You do not say "only small updates from now on" all the while asking for players to pay for options and keeping the same subscription fee as before. This game cannot be developed anymore.
Since the end of Rhapsodies we've been getting the laziest updates ever, Ambuscade is lazy and easy to program, the "quests" we got lately are terrible.
I cannot believe people say amen to their decision to add fee-based options when we are still paying full price for the game. SE never cared about FFXI, they never upgraded the game, they never took care of it.
The only thing they know is that people love this game and those who still play now will not leave because of nostalgia and their love to Vana'diel. I do love Vana'diel myself, FFXI is the game of my life but out of principles I will let my account run and never come back if this is where they're going.

If, and only if, they at least explained what was their plan about this decision, like plans to upgrade the game or whatever, maybe I could have accepted this but there is no way anyone should agree with this when taking everything into consideration.

They have people who are paid to find ways to milk players, do not think that this will stop here, mounts are coming, trusts are coming, etc.. And even more augmentable stuff to crack your gobbie bags.
I do not care at all if I get banned, all I'm going to say is that I worked for SE Europe and they do not care at all about the players, they became experts at lying and manipulating and that is exactly why I left.

We are talking about a company who sells rehashed games on iOS and Android for incredible prices, a company who's been working on FFXV for ten years but will offer buyable content for this game on top of a 250$ special edition, a company who's rolling on the gacha games fever, a company who's handling FFXIV, one of the laziest MMO, where everything is made to milk the players and force them to keep paying their sub, and now a company who is insulting loyal players of a fourteen years old game by adding fee-based options all the while asking for full sub price and saying "we will do the bare minimal updates from now on".

FFXI deserved better than this, FFXI actually deserves better than SE, the true lovers of this game at SE are long gone.

The fact that so many people agree with all this optional fee-based non-sense is scary and worrying of a gaming industry already in a terrible state. They are not making you a favor by offering these options, YOU are making them the favor of playing this game and paying full sub for it even though they said they would work as little as possible on it with their skeleton team, don't let them trick you into even more than that, this is exactly what they want.

[OmnysValefor]

First off, which cash shop are you talking about? This is an extra subscription option in the buy new content ID section of playonline. There is no cash shop.

It's a different name but it's the same thing. It doesn't matter if we make the purchase directly through the website or go to the website to buy Imperial Titanium Pieces, which are dbox'd to us, and then make a purchas in game with it.

[Castanica]

It's a different name but it's the same thing. It doesn't matter if we make the purchase directly through the website or go to the website to buy Imperial Titanium Pieces, which are dbox'd to us, and then make a purchas in game with it.

So your character was bought on the "cash shop", got it.

[Catmato]

So your character was bought on the "cash shop", got it.

#REKT

1234567890

[OmnysValefor]

So your character was bought on the "cash shop", got it.

You're trying too hard.

My character is part of my subscription--whether they say Subscription + slot for a dollar or Subscription, one dollar more expensive + 1 free slot--makes no difference. Mules, from the outset, have been a purchasable option but I must say that if SE said "For $2 for each of these slots, you can buy MORE MULES", I wouldn't care. That's upfront and honest.

This is entirely different and you know it, you just refuse to give any ground.

[Deirdre]

Or perhaps it would make you feel better to think that he did indeed buy his naked, level 1 hume warrior with 0 gil on the cash shop 10+ years ago? I mean, I'm ok if you want to think that, since every single player in XI's history had to make that initial purchase to play, haha.

[Castanica]

Planetside 1 closed down a few days ago, after 13 years of service. I wonder if that games playerbase was as self entitled as some xi players and would now squabble over a optional $4 monthly charge to help keep it running?

http://www.polygon.com/2016/6/17/11966802/planetside-1-legends-of-norrath-closure-daybreak-game-company

[Vanfrano]

Planetside 1 closed down a few days ago, after 13 years of service. I wonder if that games playerbase was as self entitled as some xi players and would now squabble over a optional $4 monthly charge to help keep it running?

http://www.polygon.com/2016/6/17/11966802/planetside-1-legends-of-norrath-closure-daybreak-game-company

I didn't know anything about this game, it took me one minute to find out that:
- it's a F2P.
- it has a cash shop.
- it has an optional sub.

And as you said, it's closing. Now put the pieces together and answer your own question. I don't even know what this has to do with FFXI's subscription model.

[Cesil]

I didn't know anything about this game, it took me one minute to find out that:
- it's a F2P.
- it has a cash shop.
- it has an optional sub.

And as you said, it's closing. Now put the pieces together and answer your own question. I don't even know what this has to do with FFXI's subscription model.

Yeah..:( Heh, I think a little communication like I said earlier would go a long way. A road map, where the money is going and why, I am sure if people saw more content, zones, or what ever it is people want, they would be happy to give money! Look at um..kick starter and such, people and companies have a lot of luck on there, and why? Because they are open, honest and show you what EXACTLY you're getting for your donations/money.

But just doing stuff with no word why and what is happening...well of course you'll have unhappy folks. As with any other type of relationship in life, communication is key.

[OmnysValefor]

Yeah..:( Heh, I think a little communication like I said earlier would go a long way. A road map, where the money is going and why, I am sure if people saw more content, zones, or what ever it is people want,

I would like this as well.


[If they saw these things] they would be happy to give money!

I agree, but not on things actually related to gameplay and inventory is central to this game. As I've said before, gold crab or ufo mount for sale? No problem, that's awesome! I probably won't buy it (okay, I might buy a ufo mount...) but I won't be disappointed at their introduction. Inventory or--completely hypothetically speaking--double CP potions, better trusts, purchasable weapons, and I would consider that a disgrace.

[Castanica]

Square as a company would never demeen themselves by communicating anything along the lines of the things mentioned, ever.

How long have any of you been around to even suggest anything like this?

The first you would know something is wrong is the day they post a message it's closing down the game. You don't get a warning.

I didn't know anything about this game, it took me one minute to find out that:
- it's a F2P.
- it has a cash shop.
- it has an optional sub.

And as you said, it's closing. Now put the pieces together and answer your own question. I don't even know what this has to do with FFXI's subscription model.

Everquest (the game ffxi is based on) is all of those things, is older than both planetside and ffxi and is still running. Monetisation system is irrelevant, what matter is profits and the company behind the game.

[Cesil]

I would like this as well.



I agree, but not on things actually related to gameplay and inventory is central to this game. As I've said before, gold crab or ufo mount for sale? No problem, that's awesome! I probably won't buy it (okay, I might buy a ufo mount...) but I won't be disappointed at their introduction. Inventory or--completely hypothetically speaking--double CP potions, better trusts, purchasable weapons, and I would consider that a disgrace.

Yeah, when it becomes pay to win..then we absolutely have a problem. >.<

[Diavolo]

End of the day, I want this game to be around for a long time and get a bigger budget.

The former has already happened and the latter won't, not in its current form.


If they had said they are increasing subs by $4 for everyone, that would of enraged me and everyone across the board. If they offer additional services for $4, I'm totally fine with that.

How Every Awful Video Game Thing Was Born (http://www.dorkly.com/post/65536/how-every-awful-video-game-thing-was-born)


The difference between people for and against is that the people who are ok with it are realists and have probably played other games, the people against it are living in Disney world and probably have never played anything other than ffxi. They think a game can run just fine with less money and where all that matters is their measly $3 a week when devs make 6 figures a year.

You think the skeleton crew members working on FFXI are all making six figures? Square Enix pays its employees, on average, more than any other Japanese game development studio by a large margin, but according to Gamasutra, Japanese development salaries averaged about $58,000/year about five years ago.

[OmnysValefor]

I've actually played several MMOs. When I played WoW, it had a cash shop, though all it had in it was mounts and maybe non-combat pets ("companions").

Now, the only game-altering thing I see there is you can buy your way to 100, but being PL'd (by today's standards) is hardly any different, just takes a little bit longer. Neither teaches you anything about the job you're trying to cap so no big deal.

I've played RIFT, TSW, TERA, AION, FFXI, WoW, 14 1.x and 2.0, and a few others. I've played AAA and Indies, games with small dev teams that did a lot and games with large dev teams that did little. Subscription, cash-shop, both, and sometimes the transition in-between.

People just assume that people who disagree with them are just clueless, and it's not the case.

[Cesil]

I've actually played several MMOs. When I played WoW, it had a cash shop, though all it had in it was mounts and maybe non-combat pets ("companions").

Now, the only game-altering thing I see there is you can buy your way to 100, but being PL'd (by today's standards) is hardly any different, just takes a little bit longer. Neither teaches you anything about the job you're trying to cap so no big deal.

I've played RIFT, TSW, TERA, AION, FFXI, WoW, 14 1.x and 2.0, and a few others. I've played AAA and Indies, games with small dev teams that did a lot and games with large dev teams that did little. Subscription, cash-shop, both, and sometimes the transition in-between.

People just assume that people who disagree with them are just clueless, and it's not the case.

I have played all those as well. FFXI, Lineage II and 1.x being my favorite. No cash shops, no mounts/glamour/fluff content from those too.

Tera was alright, the cash shop never really had any p2w, mostly glamour and mounts, however it just got boring sadly..lacking in end game for me. FFXIV 2.0/3.0 has way too much glamour/fluff content and not enough battle content, still has 0 content for a FC to do 3 years later, alliances still are non existent and do not work properly...that is just a small tidbit of the issues that game has.

Aion, I only played that when it had a sub...again it was fine, but at the end game it got boring..went back to XI lol.

So yeah in the end..my opinion is that when I sub to a game, I am paying a monthly fee for stuff to be put in via quests/missions etc and not just swipe my card and instantly get something. If they take out the effort from earning things in game..then I have little to no reason to play.

[Castanica]

http://www.geek.com/games/the-average-salary-at-square-enix-japan-is-273000-1500147/

[Diavolo]

http://www.geek.com/games/the-average-salary-at-square-enix-japan-is-273000-1500147/

I guess that answered my previous question - you do believe they get paid that much.

[Vanfrano]

http://www.geek.com/games/the-average-salary-at-square-enix-japan-is-273000-1500147/

Here, only by checking the sources of your link, http://nensyu-labo.com/kigyou_square_enix.htm, this is based on 21 employees' salary (18 at the time of the article).
As a comparison, for Sony, http://nensyu-labo.com/kigyou_sony.htm, it is based on 12286 employees' salary.

Can't wait for your next link ;)

[Castanica]

Here, only by checking the sources of your link, http://nensyu-labo.com/kigyou_square_enix.htm, this is based on 21 employees' salary (18 at the time of the article).
As a comparison, for Sony, http://nensyu-labo.com/kigyou_sony.htm, it is based on 12286 employees' salary.

Can't wait for your next link ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbYOsE7JyXs

[BurnNotice]

I personally throw away gear that is no longer useful. Unless "investing" in this wardobe is going to offer opportunity to create new content like add-ons and quests to better our stay here, I am all for it. Otherwise, this is a bad idea with great consequences.

[BurnNotice]

"We're currently looking into how to distribute the Ark Angel alter egos so stay tuned for updates!
Thanks for your feedback concerning alter egos you'd like to see in the future and please keep them coming! "

Does this scare anybody else?

If I have to start paying for Trust, I will just retire. I am already looking into that direction as it is anyway with what's going on.

[Seiowan]

If I have to start paying for Trust, I will just retire. I am already looking into that direction as it is anyway with what's going on.If that's all it takes for you to retire, you probably didn't care much for playing the game in the first place.

[Jile]

If that's all it takes for you to retire, you probably didn't care much for playing the game in the first place.

Given he's a relic, mythic and emp WAR, yeah I'm sure he doesn't like the game at all... lol

SE making this step toward a cash shop upsetting people shouldn't be a surprise to anyone expect perhaps SE's management team, evidently.

[Elexia]

Given he's a relic, mythic and emp WAR, yeah I'm sure he doesn't like the game at all... lol

I hope he got said Relic back in 2004, Said mythic back in 2007 and said empyrean back in 2010, otherwise that doesn't...mean much in these days lol.


SE making this step toward a cash shop

SE already has a cash shop.

[Jerbob]

Disappointing to see that this has been released with zero communication with unhappy players. Entirely expected, but still somehow disappointing. I'm not sure why I hoped otherwise.

I'm really concerned. Judging by this thread there are going to be plenty of people that lap this up and pave the way for more "optional services". I love this game and have spent so much time here - I really hope that I'm not going to see that all wasted by an incoming tide of purchasable mounts, capacity points and lockstyle options. I'm not sure I'll be able to stick with XI if that happens.

If money for development/maintenance is a genuine issue, if SE were honest about it and gave us promises for where our money would go, and give a glimpse at the improved service we might see, then I would be opting into this scheme. Considering, however, the massive reduction in development we're currently experiencing, I can't imagine any of this money will be re-invested.

Wonder how long it'll be before people without extra wardrobes start to struggle in-game compared to those with the extra 160 equippable spaces? It's never going to stop being a huge thing.

[OmnysValefor]

If [paying for trusts is] all it takes for you to retire, you probably didn't care much for playing the game in the first place.

So you wouldn't mind paying for trusts?

[Elexia]

Wonder how long it'll be before people without extra wardrobes start to struggle in-game compared to those with the extra 160 equippable spaces? It's never going to stop being a huge thing.

Just as long as it took for people returning to the game from pre ilvl progression days or joining today. Unless you're an already established player, you will not be able to do current content for an extremely long time and thus already struggling to catch up. You can level to 99 in no time flat, but good luck with your gear progression.

That is when you should start wondering about optional services, not because of literally an optional 160 inventory space that most players don't even need currently unless you're in that EXTREME minority that has everything mastered and just absolutely hoard gear.


If money for development/maintenance is a genuine issue, if SE were honest about it

SE is not your friend - they're a business, if they see money to be made, they'll do it. If you want to blame anyone though, blame the XIV players that literally beg SE to charge them microtransactions.


So you wouldn't mind paying for trusts?

I bet a lot of people would pay for trusts they missed or can no longer get, especially some that drop from content almost no one does anymore let alone will want to do due to not rewarding anything useful to their current progression. It's similar to the UC trusts that come and go based on rankings. Even more likely people would pay for it if it was a one time cost.

[Castanica]

I'd pay for lots of things if I wanted them. I already pay over $60 a month on ffxi, I didn't get this expansion because I simply have no use for it. Same as most of the complainers, this game throws inventory space at you.

If they are looking to make this game more profitable I'm all for that because in reality, that shows that they have no intention of shutting it down anytime soon. I would be more worried if they weren't doing that infact.

[OmnysValefor]

Eh, I honestly don't mean any offense towards you but this willingness of people to pay for more and more features is appalling to me.

In my view, I pay the subscription, that entitles me to the features within. I'm scared of a game where the company can slap a for-rent sticker on any feature they choose.

[Jerbob]

...optional 160 inventory space that most players don't even need currently...
I'm baffled by how many people are ignoring the importance of inventory (equippable inventory too!) Inventory is the platform upon which the vast majority of the game's entire progression system is planted. Yes, there's a large amount of space available to us, and a lot of people don't need it all (yet). There are also 22 jobs and an insane amount of situational pieces of gear. SE now has even more of an economic motivation to spam us with sidegrades, not to mention identical but augmentable items that we can only use through wardrobes.


SE is not your friend - they're a business, if they see money to be made, they'll do it.
This is why I don't trust them with this sort of nonsense. Once they know people will pay for stuff like this, the content I used to pay for with my subscription will suddenly become "optional".

[Castanica]

Eh, I honestly don't mean any offense towards you but this willingness of people to pay for more and more features is appalling to me.

I think that since you have played lots of other games you should understand the meaning of whales and that people who can and do put more money into a game are the people who very often let you play it at the price you do. If not for people like me chances are this game would either not be here anymore or you would be paying more, do you know how many players have alt accounts and mules? You think this game would exist if everyone had 1 account and no mules at all?

I'm against forced increases for all but not optional increases for those who can and have no problem paying it.

When I played wow and xiv I refused to pay more than basic because they were in no danger of closing down, when I play this and other smaller mmorpg titles I spend more because I can afford it and I know that my spending helps the game continue running. I've been through the pain of seeing a game I enjoy close down, I really don't want to see it on this.

End of the day there is a very small niche of hoarders who need this extra inventory, I would spend an extra $4 on it but it's just simply not needed at all. How do I know this? because everyone playing this game played it just fine yesterday before they added it.

[Diavolo]

SE is not your friend - they're a business, if they see money to be made, they'll do it.

I would argue against that. There's a lot more to making money than simply charging a monthly fee for an optional feature in a fourteen year old MMORPG. They could have been selling us items like costumes, mounts and weapons such as the one from the Master Trial for years now instead of throwing them at us for free via an endless stream of campaigns, and they could have probably generated a good bit of cash doing it, possibly prolonging the period of time in which we still received meaningful updates. They could have merged servers years ago and tailored updates around open world content - the game's strength since day one - rather than funneling everyone into Mhaura and BCNMs, ensuring servers could actively play host to thousands of players online simultaneously and continue to give off the impression that, despite the lack of growth, at least the game still looked very much alive.

I've held Square's artists and designers in the highest regard for decades now (seeing Hironobu Sakaguchi and Nobuo Uematsu at the latest FFXV event was fantastic) and I always admired the way they spoiled their employees with long, paid vacations after a game's completion, but you don't have to be a business expert to see that there was a lot of room for improvement in the way FFXI was managed.


If you want to blame anyone though, blame the XIV players that literally beg SE to charge them microtransactions.

That's exactly what we're doing when we pay those $4 for 160 extra wardrobe spaces.

The dev team has taken the time to listen to our suggestions/complaints over the years to get a better idea of how to shape the game for us, might have been nice if they had taken the time to get our feedback on this issue as well, assuming they even had much control over it. Dividing an old school player base this late in the game's life is an unnecessary risk to me.

[Elexia]

I'm baffled by how many people are ignoring the importance of inventory

It's not being ignored - we're talking specifically mog wardrobe - If it was general inventory, then it would be a big deal, this is why I said for a large portion of players, 3&4 is realistically optional at this point so only a select few in this small playerbase actually has a true need for it. If they somehow pump out a few more jobs out of no where, then it'll be a bit of a problem, since it's similar to the argument with retainers in FFXIV - You can get by with your free 2 retainers and main inventory/armory chest, but if you actually do all of the crafting +3 specialist + glamour + hoard items, you will need more space and strangely enough, XIV suffers from a bigger inventory problem than XI ever has lol.

So yeah, while it would be nice to have it, this particular case really is optional, if it was saying something like Mog Backpack and Mog Bag of Holding which is an active 160 inventory not specifically tied to gear, then it would be a cause of concern, so I get the gist of what's being argued and not ignoring it, it's just really looking at the bigger picture, as of now only so few people would actually need this at this point in time.


SE now has even more of an economic motivation to spam us with sidegrades, not to mention identical but augmentable items that we can only use through wardrobes.

Though based on this game's core if they'd take the time to do that it'd honestly be better spent in other areas lol, I trust them far more with XI than I would XIV honestly since in comparison, XIV's playerbase ended up being the type that actually hates content to begin with and is okay with being charged for everything that was no longer "optional."

I mean, the "expansion" is a forced patch purchase if you want to play the new jobs let alone level past 50.


Eh, I honestly don't mean any offense towards you but this willingness of people to pay for more and more features is appalling to me.

In my view, I pay the subscription, that entitles me to the features within. I'm scared of a game where the company can slap a for-rent sticker on any feature they choose.

As per the agreement to even play the game you had to select "yes" to, you already agreed to them doing so. It's listed very clearly things can (and will) change regarding the game in any capacity, and your sub fee is largely just giving you access to the game. So yeah you did say "in my view", but in general terms, when they say things will change, they're not strictly saying "We'll be adding in new content", they're referring to numerous things. I mean, people usually scoffed at the "act of god" clause, but there's far too many who would try to sue SE to get the money back they spent because their house burnt down or a hurricane wiped out their area, so it's not surprising there's people who still believe a subscription fee somehow protects you from a cash shop or format change.

No one cried foul about the mini-add ons beyond the people who felt "I pay a sub, I should not have to buy an expansion or add-ons, it should be given to me for free."

[Selindrile]

No one cried foul about the mini-add ons beyond the people who felt "I pay a sub, I should not have to buy an expansion or add-ons, it should be given to me for free."

Mini expansions were a one time fee which represented a reasonable amount of new content, at least the abyssean ones did, the original three DID feel like ripoffs to me, and I and others did complain about that, the big issue now is the base price of 14$ a month is not being rewarded with a reasonable amount of new content, alone, much less being asked to pay -more- for something so bare bones.

I'm not buying the new wardrobes and I'm far closer to quitting now than before they were introduced, but I haven't left yet, mainly due to friends, but at some point soon that may change.

[Raydeus]

I only got the scenarios when they were discounted in some package or something, don't even remember anymore. But you can't compare them to these Wardrobes anyway.

Although on the Japanese side of things it seems to be a fairly popular opinion that it would be ok if these things were a 1 time buy only (mainly to help the game a bit) although the "this money isn't going towards XI is it?" comment follows soon after. Which surprises no one. :3

[OmnysValefor]

As per the agreement to even play the game you had to select "yes" to, you already agreed to them doing so. It's listed very clearly things can (and will) change regarding the game in any capacity, and your sub fee is largely just giving you access to the game.

Oh I know, what I meant by "I'm scared of a game where the company can slap a for-rent sticker on any feature they choose." is that a significant portion of the community is accepting of this, so they may continue to do so.

I won't deny that the majority is very likely supportive of paying for Wardrobes 3 & 4, but people are expressing willingness to pay for trusts. To pay for combat advantage.

[BurnNotice]

If that's all it takes for you to retire, you probably didn't care much for playing the game in the first place.

Not necessarily true. I love this game and been here for a full 14 years. I just don't see the significance of paying for Trust. Paying for storage is already a big issue. Like many players, I don't want to start paying for something that was free to begin with and not at this juncture of the game.

[Vold]

We'll only have our selves to blame for the inevitable, almost, if not totally impossible to pass up, future additions to their cash shop if this is a success. That moogle bank 1-5 is around the corner for a sweet 2 dolla charge per month where all characters have access to the same bank, revolutionizing the way we mule and so forth. $5 Fenrir mount? $25 for Odin's horse? Where does it end? When is enough enough?

You have to ask yourself the ultimate question: "Am I okay with paying a sub fee for FFXI for very very little in return besides the right to log into the server everyday AND paying 2-4 dollars a month for 80-160 storage?" If you can answer yes to that question without cringing then by all means, throw that money at SE. You've earned it, my friend.

But if you cringe because you hate the idea of this but at the end of the day you MUST have that extra storage, you really need to just retire some jobs or get rid of some shit in your bags. I have spent most of my career here with 90% capacity storage and often at 0%. But I know right now if I really REALLY wanted to, I could free up 80 slots no problem without sending away any gear.

If that's me, the only other type of player who needs space this badly is people who don't want to give jobs up. That I think is pretty crappy of SE. Charging for item storage is one thing(and still a terrible thing). Charging for wardrobe which sole purpose is to store gear for swapping on the fly...that's taking advantage of your customers. There will be plenty of people who get this 3&4 wardrobe as a result. Just no shame whatsoever out of SE camp...

[kallika]

I know for sure i wont be supporting this pay to play move by SE in this game. I've paid more then enough money with the sub alone for the past 14 years.


No Thanks this time SE

[Diavolo]

We'll only have our selves to blame for the inevitable, almost, if not totally impossible to pass up, future additions to their cash shop if this is a success. That moogle bank 1-5 is around the corner for a sweet 2 dolla charge per month where all characters have access to the same bank, revolutionizing the way we mule and so forth. $5 Fenrir mount? $25 for Odin's horse? Where does it end? When is enough enough?

While I'm completely against the idea of charging monthly fees for in game advantages such as extra mog wardrobes, I do think one time fees for mounts such as you described would be perfectly fine as they are purely cosmetic and allow those of us willing to support the developer with some extra cash a nice, little reward for doing so.

[Urmom]

So now even though I am not paying to have it I still have wardrobe 3/4 in my way when I try to swap invents when swapping gear. ie update introduces something that is actually a detriment to players unless they pay more money....

[Raydeus]

So now even though I am not paying to have it I still have wardrobe 3/4 in my way when I try to swap invents when swapping gear. ie update introduces something that is actually a detriment to players unless they pay more money....

What? Son of a... the one thing I didn't want to see and now not only do I have to move around those buttons, but they aren't even grayed out so I can also click on them by mistake and open the inaccessible Wardrobe to waste even more time. Yipee...

Ugh, I'm rapidly losing interest in playing right now.

[Spectreman]

By now FFXI should be like 5 dollars a month. We are already paying for a "dead" MMORPG.

[Castanica]

I know for sure i wont be supporting this pay to play move by SE in this game. I've paid more then enough money with the sub alone for the past 14 years.


No Thanks this time SE

You paid for a service they provided, this is a service industry. You paid what you thought the service was worth, if not you would not of paid it.
If you don't want the extra space, don't get it. It's not something you need or have to get.


By now FFXI should be like 5 dollars a month. We are already paying for a "dead" MMORPG.

Once upon a time there was a small store that sold apples, they had 100 customers all buying 1 apple a week for $1. The store was making $100 and paid a young man called jack $60, he could climb to the very top of the trees to pick the best apples!

Suddenly a big bad wolf opened a store next door selling pears, overnight the apple store lost half of his customers!! Now the store only brings in $50 a week and he can no longer afford to employ Jack ;-; and so hires Jacks mother Lucy for $30 who picks apples from the floor around the tree to sell at the store.

Customers are now angry that the apples aren't as bright and juicy as before and start shouting and stomping their feet! they demand the apples sell for 50cents! The apple shop owner relents and sells the apples for 50cents. The shop now makes $25 a week!

Now the shop can't afford to pay Lucy either! >.< The shop closes because they can't afford to pay anyone to pick any apples and now nobody in the land can buy apples anymore from anyone! the pear shop next door increases their prices to $2.

The wolf who owns the pear shop buys a ferrari and is very happy.

The end~

[OmnysValefor]

I would argue that the quality in apples went down, the wolf noticed this and saw an opportunity to open a store selling quality goods people would want to buy.

Noticing this, the apple shop decided to start charging for the caramel that was previously free.

[Selindrile]

Once upon a time there was a small store that sold apples, they had 100 customers all buying 1 apple a week for $1. The store was making $100 and paid a young man called jack $60, he could climb to the very top of the trees to pick the best apples!

Suddenly a big bad wolf who already worked for the store opened a second storefront next door selling americanized apples, overnight the apple store lost half of his customers!! Now the store only brings in $50 a week from the original storefront and can completely afford to keep Jack working but sees no reason to ;-; and so they hire Jacks mother Lucy for $30 who picks apples from the floor around the tree to sell at the store.

Customers are now angry that the apples aren't as bright and juicy as before and start shouting and stomping their feet! they demand the apples sell for 50cents! The apple shop owner refuses and decides to start selling the apple on top of a stick. The shop still makes plenty of money a week over their storefronts!

Now the shop can completely afford to pay Lucy still also! >.< But the shop closes that storefront because they decide that revenue stream is less efficient. The pear shop next door increases their prices to $2, it quickly goes out of business as well.

The wolf who told the store to open the americanized apple storefront buys a ferrari and is very happy, all the people who liked the original apples are sad. The End.

FTFY /tenchar

[Castanica]

FTFY /tenchar

Trust me, I really dislike how "they" treated the "apples" (especially how they funneled all the money from "the apples" into "the pears" to pay for its creation). I quit XI for over 2 years and now, even as a FF fan I refuse to buy most of the games the "pear shop" makes anymore because I hate them so much. I sure won't be buying the 15th game they make or 16th or any reboots from here on out. That bridge was badly burned.

XI however is a game I support for my own selfish interests, there is nothing like ffxi on the market and I still like to play an mmorpg (even though the genre is pretty much dead at this point and no more are being made). If there was another company running a game similar to xi I would be gone and give them nothing ever again. I sure as heck would never buy their pears no matter what happened, even if it meant starving to death.

Pears are garbage and I hope they rot, only braindead morons would eat pears.

/inb4 banned for hating on pears

[Diavolo]

Subscription price hasn't changed despite inflation.

Inflation's a funny argument to bring into this. I don't think anyone wants to turn this into an economics class covering the last 14 years. If that's the route you want to take there are other factors to take into consideration such as development team size and server upkeep then vs now, both of which undoubtedly cost significantly less today.


The cost for the mogwardrobes are ridiculously low compared to other games.

Out of curiousity, which other games offer similar "services" at "ridiculously" higher prices?


]If you can't afford $4, either stop stuffing your face with junk food or quit the game.

lol, I'd love to know what makes you think those against the $4/month fee are all stuffing their faces with junk food.


Only little girls can possibly complain about something so incredibly useful. You little pansies are also the same players that no one wants in their party either because you obviously don't take pride in your character with efficient macros and gearing them well. Here's a mind blown moment... the extra wardrobes arent for you! Use the porter slips. Use your $1 mules. You're not intelligent enough to see the impact of the extra space.

http://media2.fdncms.com/bend/imager/tell-us-how-you-really-feel-casey-roats/u/blog/2408647/55503703.jpg?cb=1459571691

[Vanfrano]

It is really not about 2~4$ a month, the problem has been explained by many people in this post, along with more than valid arguments.

I'm not looking to brag about it, this is not the point, but I used to buy (not anymore because I can't stand SE's new ways of handling things, so no more money from me) all FF OSTs, several books, and last year I bought FFXI Memorial book and FFXI jigsaw puzzle (took me a week to complete...). What I mean is that I don't care at all about spending 4$ but I have been paying the sub for this game for 13 years and as I said they never really took care of it. OSTs or books are one thing. On the other hand, optional services that come from nowhere without any explanation in an already pretty much abandonned game is, I repeat myself, an insulting move.

[Castanica]

We're now officially on par with FFXIV forum.

Not even close, not even in the same galaxy.

[Rooj]

Just a bunch of overreacting until the next time there's just a bunch of overreacting. Zzz. Welcome to online gaming forums!

[Urmom]

Out of curiousity, which other games offer similar "services" at "ridiculously" higher prices?

To go with this I'd also like to know which games do that and still have a subscription. Not only that but maintain full sub fees while significantly reducing staff and content. Like if the game was f2p and you could pay for stuff that was neet but wasn't needed I think there would be a lot less outrage

[Selindrile]

To go with this I'd also like to know which games do that and still have a subscription. Not only that but maintain full sub fees while significantly reducing staff and content. Like if the game was f2p and you could pay for stuff that was neet but wasn't needed I think there would be a lot less outrage

Spoiler alert, there isn't one, simply put nobody has a sub fee and still has something like this, heck for most games, extra space is a one time fee, which is more palatable to almost everyone (me included) also, almost all the ones that I can think of that sell space are free to play in the first place which is a different discussion altogether.

[Spectreman]

It all began with a mog wardobe 3 & 4 microtransaction...

So the legend says...

[Deltara]

It all began with a mog wardobe 3 & 4 microtransaction...

So the legend says...

They can stick it up their gates of paradise.

[Vold]

Someone is angry at the world...
I especially liked the "no valid arguments" part.

BTW like I said, our dislike for this was ignored and it's already part of the game. They are never going to take it away now if just one person pays money, which you know one or more already did.

[Seiowan]

To go with this I'd also like to know which games do that and still have a subscription.Oh dear, I guess no one has heard of World of Warcraft then? Heck, they went full crazy and allowed you to buy your way to level 100 as well! Oh, and the subscription is still comparable to FFXI. But, I guess it doesn't count if it offers a counterpoint to your arguments...

[Selindrile]

Oh dear, I guess no one has heard of World of Warcraft then? Heck, they went full crazy and allowed you to buy your way to level 100 as well! Oh, and the subscription is still comparable to FFXI. But, I guess it doesn't count if it offers a counterpoint to your arguments...

BRRRT Not true: https://us.battle.net/shop/en/product/game/wow

Not the level 100 part, the buying extra inventory space with RL dollars part.

In fact, their entire cash shop is as follows:

12 Pets, 10 Mounts, 3 Visual Effect only Helms, Appearance Change, Character Transfer, Faction Change, Guild Rename, Guild Faction Change, Name Change, Race Change, Lv100 Boost (The only one I'd take offense at.)

[Deede]

I wonder what will be next, optional fee-based equipsets.?

[Castanica]

I wonder what will be next, optional fee-based equipsets.?

Who would buy that?

Things I would be ok with are:
Cosmetics (NEW ONES) Why don't they already do this? Cosmetics are a huge money maker and to a lot of players more important to their enjoyment of the game than actual stat items.
Cosmetics (out of holiday seasonal ones)
Echad / trizek ring buying them when they aren't available for free.
CP boosters (I and a lot of other people who have less time to grind and less than stellar gear would buy these, it would also stop people being forced to bot CP)
Trusts (only if there is also a way to get them ingame and only certain ones)
Race change (i don't care if the old race stats can't be changed, it's cosmetic most people care about) / face change / name change
Mounts!

Take my money!

[Olor]

The reason why they don't do cosmetics is because the infrastructure doesn't really support a store like that. Adding a new subscription option is less overhead than one-time codes.

[Elexia]

It is really not about 2~4$ a month, the problem has been explained by many people in this post, along with more than valid arguments.

The "Problem" is people thinking this is a required service when take for example:

920 people on your server
15 people actually need the 3rd and 4th wardrobe.

The majority of the playerbase isn't anywhere near needing 180 more gear slots. If it was 180 general inventory slots, it would be a different story. The same thing happened when SE opened up the cash shop for XIV, however, the XIV players begged SE for microtransactions even for minor stuff. So if it's not the "2-4 a month", what is the problem besides being completely optional unless they introduce more jobs when it then becomes "required"? I don't need the 3rd and 4th wardrobe, so it's not a problem to or for me, especially with how someone else decides to spend their money.

Very, very few people in this game have every job mastered and filled up 180 wardrobe slots as in (not counting your other inventory ..) so yeah, microtransactions seem to be a "bad thing" to players, yet seem to not realize every MMO has them, every mobile game has them and every game has been making money on this concept for the past decade at minimum, it just depends on how far the company goes with it. They're going the whole 720 yards with FFXIV because those players just want to be ripped off, but with XI SE is far more smarter even if the game could support "cosmetics" the core of XI is far from that - XIV isn't built with concurrent players in mind like XI is.

Also I understand the subscription argument, but let's be honest here: WoW is the original "Pay to Play with a cash shop" MMO and we all see how successful that game was, no? A sub fee is nothing but granting you access to the game.

[Urmom]

Oh dear, I guess no one has heard of World of Warcraft then? Heck, they went full crazy and allowed you to buy your way to level 100 as well! Oh, and the subscription is still comparable to FFXI. But, I guess it doesn't count if it offers a counterpoint to your arguments...

Except that is just a shortcut not something you can't get at all without paying. Also isn't that a 1 time fee? Apples and oranges.

[Jile]

The "Problem" is people thinking this is a required service

The majority of the playerbase isn't anywhere near needing 180 more gear slots.

Like many, many people, I have 22 lvl99 jobs, all in varied states of gearing, some jobs require 80-90 pieces of gear cycling around while others much less. While many pieces carry across multiple jobs I still have to run to the moogle several times a day to move macro pieces of gear back and forth.

Perhaps if SE would offer another talisman cloak with a one time fee that gives you both 3 and 4 wardrobes for a one time $20 or less I'd likely do it for all three accounts I pay for - but a monthly fee, no thanks.

Also part of the reason people are so upset about a service-model for in-game functionality is it's just SE selling out in an area they have kept clear from on FFXI and now that their feet are dipped in the cash, it won't stop here.


30 days access to be able to use provoke II - only $2/mo.
30 days access to be able to cast cure 7, same MP use as cure 1 with the potency of cure 6 - only $2/mo.
30 days of 15 extra yalms of JA function for any pet job - only $2/mo.

Lets hope that's not prophetic.

[Morovich]

I don't understand why people are upset about the fee and it being monthly. Heck XIV you have to pay extra per month for more retainers and granted players initially were upset about having to do that for the extra space and etc. the crying died off pretty quick. Yes it can be disappointing that for the extra gear space you would have to pay 2 or 4 more a month but as others said it's gear slots not general inventory space. Heck buying another character would actually give you more space then the Mog Wardrobe 3/4, as you would get the other storage bags as well.

Basically if you want it great go for it, if not don't do it, but no reason to be upset at something like this when XIV does something similar.

[Morovich]

30 days access to be able to use provoke II - only $2/mo.
30 days access to be able to cast cure 7, same MP use as cure 1 with the potency of cure 6 - only $2/mo.
30 days of 15 extra yalms of JA function for any pet job - only $2/mo.

That would give unfair advantage to actual gameplay, hence they would never do that.

[OmnysValefor]

30 days access to be able to use provoke II - only $2/mo.
30 days access to be able to cast cure 7, same MP use as cure 1 with the potency of cure 6 - only $2/mo.
30 days of 15 extra yalms of JA function for any pet job - only $2/mo.

As against these wardrobes as I am, this is taking things to absurdity.

This won't happen.

[Deirdre]

The "Problem" is people thinking this is a required service when take for example:

920 people on your server
15 people actually need the 3rd and 4th wardrobe.

The majority of the playerbase isn't anywhere near needing 180 more gear slots. If it was 180 general inventory slots, it would be a different story. The same thing happened when SE opened up the cash shop for XIV, however, the XIV players begged SE for microtransactions even for minor stuff. So if it's not the "2-4 a month", what is the problem besides being completely optional unless they introduce more jobs when it then becomes "required"? I don't need the 3rd and 4th wardrobe, so it's not a problem to or for me, especially with how someone else decides to spend their money.

Very, very few people in this game have every job mastered and filled up 180 wardrobe slots as in (not counting your other inventory ..) so yeah, microtransactions seem to be a "bad thing" to players, yet seem to not realize every MMO has them, every mobile game has them and every game has been making money on this concept for the past decade at minimum, it just depends on how far the company goes with it. They're going the whole 720 yards with FFXIV because those players just want to be ripped off, but with XI SE is far more smarter even if the game could support "cosmetics" the core of XI is far from that - XIV isn't built with concurrent players in mind like XI is.

Also I understand the subscription argument, but let's be honest here: WoW is the original "Pay to Play with a cash shop" MMO and we all see how successful that game was, no? A sub fee is nothing but granting you access to the game.


I love how the 'sub fee is only to let you access the game!' argument only appeared in XI when XIV's cash shop appeared. I've read forums a long time, going back to allakazam, and that's not how XI's sub worked. You pay them, you have access to anything in game.

[Urmom]

I don't understand why people are upset about the fee and it being monthly. Heck XIV you have to pay extra per month for more retainers and granted players initially were upset about having to do that for the extra space and etc. the crying died off pretty quick. Yes it can be disappointing that for the extra gear space you would have to pay 2 or 4 more a month but as others said it's gear slots not general inventory space. Heck buying another character would actually give you more space then the Mog Wardrobe 3/4, as you would get the other storage bags as well.

Basically if you want it great go for it, if not don't do it, but no reason to be upset at something like this when XIV does something similar.
Just cause someone else does it sort of doesn't make it not bad or not upsetting. I'm willing to bet most the people upset by this either don't play 14 or prefer 11 and don't like 11 becoming more like 14

[Diavolo]

The "Problem" is people thinking this is a required service when take for example:

920 people on your server
15 people actually need the 3rd and 4th wardrobe.

The majority of the playerbase isn't anywhere near needing 180 more gear slots. If it was 180 general inventory slots, it would be a different story. The same thing happened when SE opened up the cash shop for XIV, however, the XIV players begged SE for microtransactions even for minor stuff. So if it's not the "2-4 a month", what is the problem besides being completely optional unless they introduce more jobs when it then becomes "required"? I don't need the 3rd and 4th wardrobe, so it's not a problem to or for me, especially with how someone else decides to spend their money.

I've seen you make this argument before. We don't need more jobs in order to rationalize the extra space afforded by Mog Wadrobes 3 and 4, 22 is already more than enough to fill those up and then some. There is more to gearing a job than just having a single TP set and WS set.

Likewise, I never like bringing the argument of need vs want into these discussions because we technically don't need a lot of the items and features we have. Does that make them less valuable? Not at all. You don't need Wardrobes 3 and 4 the same way you don't need an Idris GEO to kill end game content, but it sure does make life easier. Yes, we can all survive just fine without those wardrobes the same way we all survive without REM weapons, but let's not kid ourselves, almost everyone wants them, so again, why do they need to be locked behind a paywall? I have all 22 jobs at 99 and I struggle with space, but I'd sooner spend that $4 on a homeless person than let SE think charging me for this is an acceptable practice.

[Elexia]

I love how the 'sub fee is only to let you access the game!' argument only appeared in XI when XIV's cash shop appeared. I've read forums a long time, going back to allakazam, and that's not how XI's sub worked. You pay them, you have access to anything in game.

Actually, for as long as sub based MMOs have been around your sub fee only grants you access to the game and if they choose to add (optional services/cash shop) it's well within the right to and it's not covered by your sub fee because it's an additional charge. Back when SE announced the first 3 mini-add ons people cried that they should get it for free because they paid a sub and they're not actually buying a physical expansion pack. I'm not sure how long you've played, but people were complaining they should have gotten Chains of Promathia free because unlike the Japanese, they got Rise of the Zilart for free, so they thought every expansion was free because it's a P2P MMO.


Lets hope that's not prophetic.

That would never happen in a game like this. XIV? Sure, that sounds like something they'd do, but that's a bit of an exaggeration even by F2P standards. The furthest you can go is PSO2 where you can't trade with players or use the player shop feature unless you are Premium but therein lies a completely different format known as "Freemium."


Like many, many people, I have 22 lvl99 jobs, all in varied states of gearing, some jobs require 80-90 pieces of gear cycling around while others much less.

That's actually in the minority. A lot of people have 99 jobs because leveling is nothing these days, but only play 2-4 of them at best, let alone to the fullest and to the point you have all of your gearsets for it to maximize it. It's HIGHLY unlikely you have players with 22 fully geared out jobs because no amount of mog wardrobes will be enough at that point lol. That's why I was saying stuff like this is completely optional for the majority of the playerbase, just like having multiple mules is an optional thing unless, well, you want to do certain things efficiently, e.g crafting back in the day or using for storage prior to all these changes.

[Castanica]

I've seen you make this argument before. We don't need more jobs in order to rationalize the extra space afforded by Mog Wadrobes 3 and 4, 22 is already more than enough to fill those up and then some. There is more to gearing a job than just having a single TP set and WS set.

Likewise, I never like bringing the argument of need vs want into these discussions because we technically don't need a lot of the items and features we have. Does that make them less valuable? Not at all. You don't need Wardrobes 3 and 4 the same way you don't need an Idris GEO to kill end game content, but it sure does make life easier. Yes, we can all survive just fine without those wardrobes the same way we all survive without REM weapons, but let's not kid ourselves, almost everyone wants them, so again, why do they need to be locked behind a paywall? I have all 22 jobs at 99 and I struggle with space, but I'd sooner spend that $4 on a homeless person than let SE think charging me for this is an acceptable practice.

There are lots of things in the game that aren't needed but that's not the argument.

The argument was that if you have 4 chairs and one ass, you don't need to throw a tantrum if another chair is put in the room that you aren't allowed to sit on. Now you could put all those 5 chairs together and make a fort, you could play bouncy and jump from chair to chair but you don't need that 5th chair because you already have more than enough chairs.

If space was really restrictive then I think everyone would of taken issue with it, or if it could store items instead of pure equip maybe but we have so much space that this is a really stupid thing to argue about.

Also you can pay $2 and put all your cosmetic items in it if you want, you don't have to ever pay again and still use it for cosmetic lock sets.

I really don't think there are very many people at all that have use for this, sure lots of people have lots of 99 jobs but due to the stupid nature of job points people don't use anything but their best jobs most of the time. That's rarely more than 2.

[Diavolo]

The argument was that if you have 4 chairs and one ass <snip>

lol, maybe we should stop with the analogies. This just has me thinking about how obese people are made to pay for two seats when booking a flight.


If space was really restrictive then I think everyone would of taken issue with it, or if it could store items instead of pure equip maybe but we have so much space that this is a really stupid thing to argue about.

Considering how quickly FFXIAH's thread jumped to 19 pages and was shut down, and how much attention the issue has received here on the official forums, which are usually far more quiet, I think it's safe to say it's something a lot of people feel strongly about. You don't have to be a hardcore player with countless gear sets for each job to appreciate the convenience these wardrobes bring with them. It's not something everyone needs, but it's something everyone wants and attaching a recurring fee to it came as a shock to the system for many.

Safe to say those exhibiting reservations about paying for two extra wardrobes probably won't be playing FFXI Mobile for long, if at all, when it finally arrives.

[Erroclese]

I Love it!
Its great! Now all my gear is always available! and I can sort weapons into one, main piece armor in one, accessories in one and special event items in another.
as for the 2$ + 2$ for them... Totally worth it as its across ALL my characters. With the total cost on monthly subscription still under 20$ for me.
Now if SE starts adding LOTS of these addons.... These prices may be a bit high as you could easily end up with add on costs being More than the base price.
That said...I'd Love Mog Safe 3 & 4....

[VoiceMemo]

I stated it before, but it's not the $2/month that I'm upset about. I can easily afford it, its the principle of the matter. If it starts with paying just for more space(paying for mules is space + other benefits, ie bayld farming, crafting, quests etc) what's to stop it from having to pay for spells. I could see se doing this for Massacre elegy for brd. It starts FFXI down a slippery slope which to the extreme we'd have to pay for use of MP.

[Castanica]

I stated it before, but it's not the $2/month that I'm upset about. I can easily afford it, its the principle of the matter. If it starts with paying just for more space(paying for mules is space + other benefits, ie bayld farming, crafting, quests etc) what's to stop it from having to pay for spells. I could see se doing this for Massacre elegy for brd. It starts FFXI down a slippery slope which to the extreme we'd have to pay for use of MP.

You are kind of getting a little hysterical here, all you have to do is look at FFXIV. That shows the extreme they might be willing to goto and it does not offer anything like what you mention there. Also, just to point out that almost no f2p mmorpg does that either.

Developers have standards too, they sometimes have to push them to make sure a title is profitable but I can guarantee you they will close this game down before they goto the extreme you just mentioned. Even if it's f2p.

[Selindrile]

We have no reason to believe that just because FFXIV is a certain way, that's the only things that might be merged into XI, afterall, I'm sure they believe they can afford to be far riskier in XI's case for obvious reasons.

We had no reason to believe they would ever pull something like rented inventory space in XI before this announcement.

[Castanica]

We have no reason to believe that just because FFXIV is a certain way, that's the only things that might be merged into XI, afterall, I'm sure they believe they can afford to be far riskier in XI's case for obvious reasons.

We had no reason to believe they would ever pull something like rented inventory space in XI before this announcement.

You greatly exaggerate their care meter in relation to this game, also the point remains that almost no mmorpg on the market does anything like that level of cash shop sellables.

[Selindrile]

You mean ones like:

Black Desert Online (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhrHMoc719Q) : "Costume" buyables that have set bonuses that affect exp/combat, not obtainable ingame.

Perfect World (http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Cash_Shop#Shop) : Socketing to improve your weapons/armor, which is the only way you can adds sockets.

Runes of Magic (http://runesofmagic.gamepedia.com/Item_Shop) : Consumable items to improve your weapon/armor, these are purchasable ingame, but the price is exorbitant.

Rift (http://massivelyop.com/2016/01/27/rift-forces-players-to-use-cash-shop-for-expansion-gear-upgrades/) : Gear upgrades again cost RL money.

I'm sure there are tons more, that was only a few minutes of research.

Many games have Patron status which offers combat bonuses, but that isn't usually found in a subscription-based model, but neither is rental inventory space in a subscription-based game, all that I can think of are single-purchases for inventory space in other games...

[Castanica]

I'm not gonna go out of my way to research it but I'll bet if I did you can buy those upgrades via ingame currency from other players and/or they are very minor anyway, at least in terms of rift and bdo.

I haven't seen a serious mmorpg with the things you mention that had no other way to get them. Also as stated ffxiv had rentable inventory space long before ffxi and they give you far less free space. FFXIV is also considering story skip potions and level to 60 stuff.

[Selindrile]

We all know how "very minor" works in MMO terms, especially FFXI, and I did the research, except where I already noted those aren't obtainable ingame, and I have played Perfect World and Runes of Magic, they weren't minor things to the people there.

[Castanica]

RIFT “You can still unlock them through gameplay by using your in-game currency to purchase REX from the auction house!”

[Selindrile]

How do you suppose those items get there in the first place? lol.....

[Castanica]

How do you suppose those items get there in the first place? lol.....

What does that have to do with it? I don't care if someone else buys things to put them on the auction house, as long as I or you can use ingame currency to get them.

The point was you can get them in the game with in-game currency, the auction house is part of the game.

[OmnysValefor]

Similarly, I believe EVE and much later WoW have enabled game-currency (gold, gil, whatever the game calls it) to pay monthly fees in a similar fashion: You buy a "token" of some sort, with real-life money and can sell the code on the auction house.

It's basically sanctioned RMT.

I'm not complaining. I actually have no problem with it.

Honestly, some players will always buy game-currency whether because they don't have the time or just don't care. With the company being the middleman, it at least makes the transaction trustworthy.

btw: I hate when two people with the same avatar argue, so confusing. It looked like one person was tweeting for a minute.

[Elexia]

I stated it before, but it's not the $2/month that I'm upset about. I can easily afford it, its the principle of the matter.

Okay. At this point I want to someone to show me they have an extreme need for Mog Wardrobe 3 & 4. I'm not saying it to be a smartbutt or anything, I really want to see how many players maximize all of their 99 jobs and not just a few, since you know, apparently I only think a "TP and WS set" is needed, despite playing this game since the JP Beta and play numerous jobs from tanking, DD to jobs like Geomancer, Scholar, White Mage and Red Mage. We need a lot of gear for particular jobs, but given the grind to master a job, that's precisely why I stated most people tend to only play 2-4 jobs at best thus not creating an actual need for these optional wardrobes.


If it starts with paying just for more space(paying for mules is space + other benefits, ie bayld farming, crafting, quests etc) what's to stop it from having to pay for spells. I could see se doing this for Massacre elegy for brd.

XI isn't built nor does it support a system like that. What's to stop them? The fact Matsui stated straight out as per client design it's hard coded to a limit to add additional spells to the player or monsters and they have no intention to remove older/unused spells/skills to make room for new. So while "Massacre Elegy" exists, paying for it via microtransaction would make no logical sense.

In XIV it'd make sense because they use a lot of excuses as to why they can't give players x but we can suddenly pay for it. A lot of changes in XI came due to hiring a new programmer.

[Diavolo]

Okay. At this point I want to someone to show me they have an extreme need for Mog Wardrobe 3 & 4.

You're basically sliding down that slippery slope at this point. Would you be okay paying an additional fee for anything that isn't deemed an "extreme need"? That includes a very, very long list of features and items...

[Olor]

You're basically sliding down that slippery slope at this point. Would you be okay paying an additional fee for anything that isn't deemed an "extreme need"? That includes a very, very long list of features and items...

exactly. All of the sudden we need "crystal points" to warp from crystals. You get 1000 a month. Each warp costs 50-100 points. You can subscribe to crystal boost 1, 2, & 3 to increase your crystal points by an additional 5000 each for the month...
warps from survival guides now cost "pages" everyone gets 10 pages per month. Subscribe to Bonus Book 1, 2, and 3 for an additional 20 pages a month each.

Do we have an EXTREME NEED to be able to use warp points and books? No, we used to just walk and warp places. So I guess we don't "need" books and crystal points - but it would be a serious quality of life issue not to have access to them. Same applies to wardrobes 3 and 4.

[Elexia]

You're basically sliding down that slippery slope at this point.

No slippery slope at all - I'm curious to see how many people with all 99 jobs actually plays more than 2-4 to the max, because people should be far more concerned with SE not adding 180 general inventory slots compared 180 gear only slots very few people would even get use out of because they're severely hurting for inventory space, which as I said again, if you truly do play all jobs to 99, SE didn't help you at all even for $4 extra a month because you still won't have space, anywhere to sustain that (if you actually gear swap.)


Would you be okay paying an additional fee for anything that isn't deemed an "extreme need"?

Already do in games I play. They're called optional services for a reason. I'm sure everyone's bought some form of DLC the main game doesn't need before. The only slippery slope is thinking:


All of the sudden we need "crystal points" to warp from crystals

Something like this is anywhere near in the realm of possibility for this game.

The nexon version, however, you should be more worried about.

[Jile]

inb4: JobSpecificWardrobe "Optional Service".

[Zaila]

The double-dipping (cash shop on top of sub fee) is one of the big reasons I left FFXIV and came back to XI.

Now XI is double-dipping as well, only a few months after I came back. It's a bitter taste.

I see a lot of arguments in this thread about why double-dipping is "okay" - the content is optional and it's not pay to win, and no one is being forced to pay extra, so what's the problem?

The problem is that people who are already paying for the game every month feel like it's a slap in the face. We are already paying, but not getting all the content the devs are implementing. Worse, the time the devs spend on creating and implementing cash shop items is likely time taken away from the development of regular content that all subscribers have access to.

Charging more for storage in a game like FFXI is extra-hard to swallow. The game was designed to allow players to play every job on one character. While the one-character model has always been lauded as a brilliant move in an MMO environment, allowing players to preserve their community identities while simultaneously trying many different jobs, it of course leads to huge inventory issues. Many of those issues have been alleviated through quality of life upgrades, and I'm sure the playerbase as a whole is as thankful as I am for that. However, it does tend to be a punch in the gut when the devs, who know the strengths and weaknesses of the one-character system as well as the players do, charge a premium for expansion of storage.

For a long time MMOs fell into one of two categories: free to play with a cash shop, or a monthly subscription fee with all content available to every player who pays for the game monthly. And it worked, players had their preferences and followed them. But as things like this usually go, someone in corporate looked at these models and thought "if the players will pay for both, why not use both?" I understand SE needs their money, but XI players have already been giving and giving and giving, for 15 years now. And I know I'm not the only one who left XIV disappointed to come back to XI where the grass was greener, the game more fun, the double-dipping nonexistent. Until now.

[Spectreman]

The problem with microtransactions is that companies adjust the game with time so players feel the need for purchasing them more and more. Game mechanics are bascially screwed towards these microtransactions and finally we reach a point of not having them means having a crippled gaming experience (like in all F2P games). Since this is a subscription game, microtransactions should never have a place here.

[Finuve]

I see a lot of arguments in this thread about why double-dipping is "okay" - the content is optional and it's not pay to win, and no one is being forced to pay extra, so what's the problem?
its never ok, but dont worry, plenty of people will justify anything companies do

[Zaila]

To explain this clearly, one last time. Say for example that you are a FFXI player, and you wanted to have extra storage during the last 14 years, you PAID EXTRA for some Mule Characters, and you shipped your extra items to the Mule accounts (very slowly) via Delivery Box. People have been doing this for over a decade. I was doing it in 2004 when I was catching Grimmonites and couldn't sell them all. I had a Mule with a whole house full of fish!

So if you were a player who needed extra storage, you were ALREADY paying for extra characters and using them as Storage Mules.

Now, with the extra wardrobes optional fee, you would be able to cancel those Mule Characters, and use the same money (from your cancelled Mules) to pay for the extra Wardrobes. This would make your life EASIER, and cost you the SAME as you were already paying. That is what we in the business world call a "good deal." Pay the same, get the same storage, and not have to ship goods back and forwards across multiple characters? Sounds like a good deal to me.

:)

Not a good deal. On one mule, you could have an extra 800 slots for an extra dollar a month (if you bothered to do the legwork on the mule to open all those slots) and you could store any type of item on a mule. However, Mog Wardrobe 3 & 4 are only 160 extra spaces in which you can only store gear and not any other type of item, and it costs 4$ a month. And let's face it, if you are so badly in need of two extra Mog wardrobes, it means you likely play enough to spend the time to do the legwork on those mules.

I spent many a day wrestling with mules too. I know it's annoying and time-consuming. And therein lies the rub. We were always fed the "PS2 limitations" line every time we requested more much-needed storage, so we made do with mules. But the time for that has passed, and XI is now PC-only. The yoke of outdated hardware has been lifted, only to be replaced with a new yoke. Now that the extra space can be supported, we who have been paying for mules and extra accounts all these years are being asked for even more money per month for the space.

If you truly think this is a fair business move, or that you're getting the same bang for your buck, you might want to cast Blindna on yourself.

[Olor]

I am paying for the wardrobes I put all my bst gear in them and lower level gear for leveling. That way I only have to sub to them when I want to level or play bst. My bst has been pretty much retired now for 6+ months so this is just a way of freeing up inventory from my retired job without tedious muling and without throwing away gear I worked hard for.

I don't like being asked to pay for them, but with my limited play time, managing inventory isn't really what I want to do.

Anyway the login campaigns are so bad I can probably make the money mostly back on not subbing mules.

I don't like this direction as I think the game is pretty overpriced for it's age and updates, but I am not going to suffer when I do play. As I said above, I will probably just sub less often.

[Stompa]

Not a good deal. On one mule, you could have an extra 800 slots for an extra dollar a month (if you bothered to do the legwork on the mule to open all those slots) and you could store any type of item on a mule. However, Mog Wardrobe 3 & 4 are only 160 extra spaces in which you can only store gear and not any other type of item, and it costs 4$ a month. And let's face it, if you are so badly in need of two extra Mog wardrobes, it means you likely play enough to spend the time to do the legwork on those mules.

I spent many a day wrestling with mules too. I know it's annoying and time-consuming. And therein lies the rub. We were always fed the "PS2 limitations" line every time we requested more much-needed storage, so we made do with mules. But the time for that has passed, and XI is now PC-only. The yoke of outdated hardware has been lifted, only to be replaced with a new yoke. Now that the extra space can be supported, we who have been paying for mules and extra accounts all these years are being asked for even more money per month for the space.

If you truly think this is a fair business move, or that you're getting the same bang for your buck, you might want to cast Blindna on yourself.


You say the new wardrobes are only 160 spaces. Did you read this on the POL page ;

"This contract applies to all characters on the same PlayOnline/FINAL FANTASY XI service account."

This means that as I have six mules, I cancel four mules to pay for the new wardrobes, and I get 160 spaces on each of my remaining three characters. I could leave things on my mules that I never really need to use very often, and have +160 more items on my main account, items that are more useful every day.

You're right, dollar for dollar, there is a slightly larger number of slots if I kept my six mules, than if I got +160 slots on each of my three remaining characters. But it is only a slight difference.

To use your argument, for dollar-for-dollar you get a slightly larger number of slots with six fully-powered mules, than with three characters using the new Wardrobes - but at a huge loss of convenience.


:)

[Olor]

yeah but stompa, my mules don't need gear spaces. I'd much rather have a lower price and only have it apply to one character. If this was general inventory I'd agree with you but how many people have multiple mules that need 160 more gear spaces on them each? I don't, and I even have a mule that is pretty much gear only, and he had room in his existing mog sacks...

[Vashkoda]

I think Stompa made a good point that maybe when you own 4 mules that otherwise barely hold anything (used for logins, bonanza, whatever), condensing those 4x$1 expenses to one $4 expense that grants you 160 extra equip-macro-available spots might be worthwhile. But you still should consider a few things:

Pro1) You gain 160 spots that can be used in equipset macros, saving yourself a little time and space stuffing macro gear into your inventory each time you change jobs
Pro2) You gain a bonus 160 storage spots on any mules you have left.

Con 1) The 160 storage spots you gain on those mules is for gear only.
Con 2) You now lose out on having 4 other chars for login points, mog pell gifts, bonanza, etc.
Con 3) You lose out on the total storage space of 4 mules (which depending on how many storage you unlocked, adds up to a much larger number than 160)

This is without including other cons, such as concern that purchasing this will encourage SE to start charging for other services in FFXI, or that acceeding to this is essentially subjecting yourself to being slapped in the face when you are already one of the few loyal customers SE has left who is playing their outdated game.


I'm curious to see how many people with all 99 jobs actually plays more than 2-4 to the max, because people should be far more concerned with SE not adding 180 general inventory slots compared 180 gear only slots very few people would even get use out of because they're severely hurting for inventory space, which as I said again, if you truly do play all jobs to 99, SE didn't help you at all even for $4 extra a month because you still won't have space, anywhere to sustain that (if you actually gear swap.)

I actually do play all 22 jobs, and have them all geared to a degree that I can take them out and do decently on mid-tier stuff. Sure I have some jobs that are geared much better than others for endgame (RUN, BLU, THF, WHM, SMN, BST, BLM, GEO), but for example, I still carry 4 different H2H for PUP, and it's a job I play maybe once every 3 months. I admit I'm a hoarder, and to manage it I need one mule (which I didn't have for the longest time because I wanted to play as vanilla as possible), porter slips, filling the dbox limbo space between my main and my mule (which I cap all the time), and often filling my ah slots with gear I overprice just to have a place to hold them. I don't keep any gear needed to play those 22 jobs on my mule (mostly because that gear is predominantly ra/ex or on porter). My mule already gets all my sentimental gear that I'll never wear again but just can't toss, my extra escha/resein pieces that I'll one day mess around augmenting, gear for the mule itself because I got bored and decided to level all its jobs. And yet with all that, I have maybe 12 pieces of gear that don't fit into its wardrobe 1/2. The rest is all crafting mats, trigger items, abjurations, unity trophies, food and meds. So yes, giving my mule an extra 120 gear spaces will help get me inv +12 and nothing more. A second mule would be much more useful to me (and I'm probably close to breaking down and buying one, but I'm waiting to see how I fare after the bonanza frees up space).


yeah but stompa, my mules don't need gear spaces. I'd much rather have a lower price and only have it apply to one character. If this was general inventory I'd agree with you but how many people have multiple mules that need 160 more gear spaces on them each? I don't, and I even have a mule that is pretty much gear only, and he had room in his existing mog sacks...

Exactly.

[Jerbob]

Urgh. Do I really have to skip past these wardrobe buttons every time I access my inventories?

SE, I'm not going to opt in to this ridiculous nonsense. You don't need to advertise its existence. Please remove the buttons for people who aren't participating in this. At least grey them out or have the cursor skip over them.

[Vinedrai]

Urgh. Do I really have to skip past these wardrobe buttons every time I access my inventories?

SE, I'm not going to opt in to this ridiculous nonsense. You don't need to advertise its existence. Please remove the buttons for people who aren't participating in this. At least grey them out or have the cursor skip over them.

+over9000

That annoys me too.

[Secondplanet]

Urgh. Do I really have to skip past these wardrobe buttons every time I access my inventories?

SE, I'm not going to opt in to this ridiculous nonsense. You don't need to advertise its existence. Please remove the buttons for people who aren't participating in this. At least grey them out or have the cursor skip over them.

SE will continue to rub them in your face and make them a anti-Quality of life improvement, I don't know how many times i go to access wardrobe 2 and select 4 and get the lag from accessing the wrong one when i'm trying to do stuff on the go. I agree, make them blacked out unless you pay or remove in full but neither will happen as they want to force feed you how much you're missing without them

[Castanica]

SE will continue to rub them in your face and make them a anti-Quality of life improvement, I don't know how many times i go to access wardrobe 2 and select 4 and get the lag from accessing the wrong one when i'm trying to do stuff on the go. I agree, make them blacked out unless you pay or remove in full but neither will happen as they want to force feed you how much you're missing without them

I think you are overthinking this, it's actually just based on the limitations of the game engine / UI. I don't have a mog locker on an alt account, it still shows it. I don't have mog satchel, it still shows it. This is not new.

They aren't rubbing your nose in it, it's just a standard UI for all.

[Elexia]

I think you are overthinking this, it's actually just based on the limitations of the game engine / UI. I don't have a mog locker on an alt account, it still shows it. I don't have mog satchel, it still shows it. This is not new.

They aren't rubbing your nose in it, it's just a standard UI for all.

People tend to brush off the obvious in these situations - you see a lot in the XIV community.

I mean, the reason they bury stuff in menus is CLEARLY because they're planning on going the microtransaction route with this game, so therefore to have a better interface you'll have to pay extra a month!

[OmnysValefor]

I think you are overthinking this, it's actually just based on the limitations of the game engine / UI. I don't have a mog locker on an alt account, it still shows it. I don't have mog satchel, it still shows it. This is not new.

They aren't rubbing your nose in it, it's just a standard UI for all.

I have to agree. I fully expect that if they responded to this, they'd say the game engine doesn't support skipping greyed out options. It also might not support only showing available options to people who have "rented them". Yes, with some effort, the engine could probably filter it away but it's literally not worth their effort.

On top of that, while I don't like these 2 boxes being rentals, if a user comes back to the game and sees them but greyed out, first thing they'll do is google how to get them. Makes sense to have them visible.

It is a bit of an inconvenience, but only that.

[detlef]

When looking into storage expansion, this is primarily the reason that it took so much time to make it happen. We decided to provide a fee-based optional service to accommodate players who absolutely felt that they needed more storage.

The second reason was to gain capital for continued service of FFXI. (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/51042-Freshly-Picked-Vana-diel-27-Digest)

If you can prove to me that the money goes back into FFXI (or even just provide some reassurance) then that's good enough for me. I have no misgivings paying extra for certain conveniences if it goes back into the game, provided that we don't go pay-to-win.

[Zeldar]

You also missed the part where he said that they made it pay to use so only those who really wanted it would get it, that way less stress is put on the servers.

[Raydeus]

If you can prove to me that the money goes back into FFXI (or even just provide some reassurance) then that's good enough for me. I have no misgivings paying extra for certain conveniences if it goes back into the game, provided that we don't go pay-to-win.

Agreed.


I would like to let you know that this does not mean that the plan for FFXI moving forward is to go the microtransaction route, so please rest assured this is not the case.If this is true, and the money is indeed going to go towards improving XI and bringing back some dev personnel to work on it then I'm in.

[Diavolo]

Quote from that Freshly Picked:


The first is to mitigate against the increased stress placed on the servers from storage. Besides the increased loading times for items that occurs for each character, it’s very important to consider the issue where adding inventory support to all characters would cause stress on the entire server. Thus, one of the main reasons why this is an optional service requiring a fee is to mitigate as much of this server stress as possible. We’re building an environment tailored to those who wish to expand their inventory.

This rings hollow to me given how low the population numbers are across the remaining 16 servers compared to their heydays and how much new, needless gear we're receiving - many of those stat upgrades could have come in the form of updates to existing gear, similar to the way Escha - Ru'Aunn abjuration gear got updated. I guess that's as good an explanation as I could have expected, though.

[Castanica]

Quote from that Freshly Picked:



This rings hollow to me given how low the population numbers are across the remaining 16 servers compared to their heydays and how much new, needless gear we're receiving - many of those stat upgrades could have come in the form of updates to existing gear, similar to the way Escha - Ru'Aunn abjuration gear got updated. I guess that's as good an explanation as I could have expected, though.


Why do people keep comparing the game now to "heydays"?

They have added content to the servers that was never there in the past. There was no unity system with chat servers, there was no multiple linkshell system, there was no shout / yell. There was no extra inventory systems (wardrobe 1 and 2) back then. They have stated multiple times that the way the game runs now would of been impossible back when there were 3-4k people on each server.

The server load in 2004 was minimal, it has gotten more and more complicated and far more server communication happens now then ever had before. The servers would crash if 2k people were online now, let alone 3-4

As for gear, protip: you can throw stuff away.

[OmnysValefor]

One fabulous way they could reduce inventory stress is by not creating items that we're intended to have multiple of, like Ambuscade's JSE capes. I would have made the base stats of the cape purchaseable as a key item (with hallmarks!) so that it's always locked on the job.

The capes themselves would be all-jobs so that my blu, dnc, and thf don't have three identical capes. My RUN has two capes that are just like 2 of my 3 PLD capes.

Another thing is give us boxes to put our treasures in (kind of like mules). I know I'll probably never wear mekira mekogai again but it took me over 300 fights to get it, I'm not dropping it. If this box was only accessible from say MH second floor, that saves a lot of needless downloading at every zone change.

Expand the slots in the delivery box so that muling is not such a cumbersome process.

And before someone says something like "Your inventory problems are your own fault." Attachment to pixels is what MMOs depend on and thrive off of.

Another thing that I think certain other games do better: Aside from JSE gear, jobs can wear a class of armor. This would translate into XI something like this..

Plate - WAR/PLD/DRK/DRG/SAM..etc
Leather - MNK/NIN/THF/BLU/DNC/RUN/RNG..etc(and RDM).
Cloth - WHM/BLM/SCH..mages

It's a bit annoying carrying around inferior gear to another piece just because, on someone's whim, a job that sensibly should be able to wear something can't wear it.

Finally, while zoning is part of XI, they could alleviate a lot of the hopping by consolidating home points and survival books into one system. Put a home point in Mog Garden too (just make "Area you entered from" go back to Western Adoulin if you want, or don't.. would it be so broken?).

I would imagine that bandwidth usage has gone up since the introduction of ambuscade since the main thing to do right now is Zone to some obscure area, kill 10 things, zone back, enter fight, take 3 minutes to kill it, zone out, redownloading inventory each and every time. HTBF is a similar thing. Add an extra step for the people who don't move their home point.

Instead, design something like--ironic, since it's in the same zone--Legion where you do the fight as many times as you can in a set period of time (Each round in legion scaled in difficulty, I don't think that would be ideal here).

[Castanica]

Ambuscade is unashamed waste your time content, how many capes do you even have? unless it's 10+ it's not much of an argument.

Also you're asking for massive rewrites of code at a time when they have stated they are only going to do minor stuff, good luck with that.

[OmnysValefor]

I agree it's mostly wishful thinking--except in regard to combining home points and survival guides. They are probably programmed very similarly. Hey, neither even needs to be changed to the other if that's too much work, simply allow teleporting to HPs from guides and vise versa.

A treasure box is just another storage box, though it might take some new programming to make it only accessible/viewable in one zone.

In regard to other ideas: Really, I just wish they'd be practical about what players are going to do. We can have multiple capes so many of us are going to make multiple capes. They know we min-max our sets. Think ahead, be proactive.

[Diavolo]

The server load in 2004 was minimal, it has gotten more and more complicated and far more server communication happens now then ever had before. The servers would crash if 2k people were online now, let alone 3-4

Let's call a spade a spade - this is an outdated, horribly inefficient game engine and it's all made worse by decisions to funnel the masses into its "instanced" content like HTBF and Ambuscade. If adding two extra Mog Wardrobes brings about such a strain on the servers that they don't want everyone still playing to have access to them then why design the game in such a way that involves warping to/from zones every few minutes until you're blue in the face? I mean, we're playing an MMORPG whose strength is, or at least was at one time, its open world. Common sense would dictate they design content around some of those large, lifeless zones and keep players within those zones for extended periods of time rather than forcing them to zone every few minutes, not unlike Escha.

[Olor]

Let's call a spade a spade - this is an outdated, horribly inefficient game engine and it's all made worse by decisions to funnel the masses into its "instanced" content like HTBF and Ambuscade. If adding two extra Mog Wardrobes brings about such a strain on the servers that they don't want everyone still playing to have access to them then why design the game in such a way that involves warping to/from zones every few minutes until you're blue in the face? I mean, we're playing an MMORPG whose strength is, or at least was at one time, its open world. Common sense would dictate they design content around some of those large, lifeless zones and keep players within those zones for extended periods of time rather than forcing them to zone every few minutes, not unlike Escha.

This, I seriously don't understand why they made ambuscade an instance. Why not let people pop it at VW spawns for example? It isn't as if there are not 300 of them that are never used?

[Elexia]

Common sense would dictate they design content around some of those large, lifeless zones

The memory limitations on the client state otherwise. Remember this is a game designed in the late 90s and released in the early 2000s, there's hard caps on virtually everything, including what they can do with a zone before it gets so top heavy it causes problems just initializing all of the flags and events needing to be stored in memory. Them adding VW and UC spawns likely put them at their limit as is this is also why NPCs who offer multiple quests can't reliably "read" your status and pop the correct one because they're doubling up+ on single npcs for new content and overall that's a huge burden on the servers. So while XI isn't the most optimized game out there code wise, keep in mind it's hardcapped to 56k data streams.

[Vold]

You know, I suspect that the excuse will be that everyone getting WD3&4 would cause too much strain(lol) on the servers so by charging for them, fewer will have access and thus, less strain. If that's the excuse it'd been better to make a highly difficult quest and deal with the whining for that, like along the lines of that afterglow shit. At least then there's no one quitting over it.


The first is to mitigate against the increased stress placed on the servers from storage. Besides the increased loading times for items that occurs for each character, it’s very important to consider the issue where adding inventory support to all characters would cause stress on the entire server. Thus, one of the main reasons why this is an optional service requiring a fee is to mitigate as much of this server stress as possible. We’re building an environment tailored to those who wish to expand their inventory.
http://i.imgur.com/1BDaQ4h.jpg

OH COME ON!

http://i.imgur.com/WKdKJOw.gif

[Selindrile]

I've just returned to the thread after a long break, after living with many people around me who use wardrobe 3 and 4 and just want to say that I still feel the same way about it, I dislike very much the decision to monetize wardrobe 3 & 4 use, the "reasons" for doing so they've offered do not seem genuine, and I sit here with a very full inventory, gaining 3 capes a month (due to that being the max you can max out in a month in ambuscade) and look spitefully at my unusable wardrobe 3 & 4 buttons, but still, I refuse to pay for them.

[Seiowan]

I sit here with a very full inventory, gaining 3 capes a month (due to that being the max you can max out in a month in ambuscade) and look spitefully at my unusable wardrobe 3 & 4 buttons, but still, I refuse to pay for them.Um... then aren't you really only punishing yourself? Also, what's this obsession people seem to have over JSE capes? No, despite your beliefs you do not actually NEED 10 capes for one job. To be honest, for some jobs you don't even need two!

Of course, it's entirely your CHOICE to have multiples, but that's precisely it. It's a choice. It's not like you can macro specific capes in for skills since they all share the same name, so it's basically something you either equip manually or play Russian roulette with. I'm not trying to insult people who've worked hard on getting multiple capes for different circumstances, but to those people who are moaning about MORE inventory space when they fill it up with gear I truly shake my head in pity.

Here's a question to those people who are moaning about having the wardrobes. If they weren't added at all, you'd be in the same situation now as you were before. What exactly was your grand plan for fixing your inventory problems if they'd never added the wardrobes?

[Selindrile]

Um... then aren't you really only punishing yourself?

No, between the two options, I am happier not having paid for the wardrobes despite the inventory space I would like, the principle of the thing is more important to my happiness. But I would be happier yet if the wardrobes were not charged for, thus, I post about it.


Also, what's this obsession people seem to have over JSE capes? No, despite your beliefs you do not actually NEED 10 capes for one job. To be honest, for some jobs you don't even need two!

Need is a funny word, I don't believe I NEED any capes, or any jobs, or FFXI for that matter, or a computer, I want them, and at some point the inconvenience of storing the capes will outweigh their usefulness, that point has not come yet, and it would come far later, and thus I would be happier, had I wardrobe 3 & 4, but not at the cost of feeling extorted into paying for them.


Of course, it's entirely your CHOICE to have multiples, but that's precisely it. It's a choice.

Yep, and it's my choice whether to play the game or not, and right now, the choice that makes me happiest is playing while lobbying for the changes I want, if that changes in the future, I will do something differently to maximize my happiness.


It's not like you can macro specific capes in for skills since they all share the same name, so it's basically something you either equip manually or play Russian roulette with. I'm not trying to insult people who've worked hard on getting multiple capes for different circumstances, but to those people who are moaning about MORE inventory space when they fill it up with gear I truly shake my head in pity.

Actually you can, equipsets can tell the difference, try it out yourself, sometimes they do get confused when you change the capes wardrobe/inventory location, but you can absolutely have different equipsets use different capes reliably. Not to mention, even if they didn't having multiple capes at least on some jobs would still be a huge deal, like melee and magic ones for Blue mage, for example.

When people don't understand how a system works while simultaneously insulting people who do, I grin in amusement.


Here's a question to those people who are moaning about having the wardrobes. If they weren't added at all, you'd be in the same situation now as you were before. What exactly was your grand plan for fixing your inventory problems if they'd never added the wardrobes?

The same thing it was before, moogle storage or job limitations, however, the more things I have to store in moogle storage, the longer it takes me to job change at any time, and the lower max jobs I can play, the faster I can job change and the more jobs I can play at a level I'm happy with, the happier I am, thus I lobby for this change.

I have made the decisions that make me the happiest I can be under the current system, of course I lobby for changes that would make me happier, it would be illogical not to.

[Diavolo]

The memory limitations on the client state otherwise. Remember this is a game designed in the late 90s and released in the early 2000s, there's hard caps on virtually everything, including what they can do with a zone before it gets so top heavy it causes problems just initializing all of the flags and events needing to be stored in memory. Them adding VW and UC spawns likely put them at their limit as is this is also why NPCs who offer multiple quests can't reliably "read" your status and pop the correct one because they're doubling up+ on single npcs for new content and overall that's a huge burden on the servers. So while XI isn't the most optimized game out there code wise, keep in mind it's hardcapped to 56k data streams.

Come on now, you can't believe there is absolutely no room for new content in existing zones, do you? They're handicapped by an outdated engine, but they're still free to go into old zones and add/remove content similar to how they added level 80+ mobs to Grounds of Valor zones years ago.

If anything, this news only further solidifies my belief that they should have assigned an internal development team to porting this game to Unreal Engine 4 and relaunching it for PC alongside the mobile version from Nexon, who seem to have done a great job in the short time frame they were given. 60fps+, higher image quality, better draw distance - and all of it scalable via graphics settings like most modern games - no more loading between zones, larger auto-translate options, and on and on. Advertise it online and maybe with some inexpensive TV ads, throw in a couple of weeks of free playtime and it would breathe new life into the game, probably making back the development costs soon after launch. Best of all, they'd have a great deal of freedom in providing future updates. I'd be surprised if the idea hadn't been tossed around at SE already, but good luck convincing the suits to green light it after FFXIV.