Making Evoliths Interchangeable Like BLU Spells for "Ebon-Type Gear Sets" New Life! [Archive]

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kingfury

04-10-2011, 01:13 AM

I'm still awaiting an overhaul to the Evolith system based on the "Ebon-Type Gear" :(

It was indeed a long road to completing my Ebur Cuirass set(the process of turning it into the Ebur set that is), and I've been patiently waiting for the whole "Vs Family" part to be coupled with LOTS more options (Like: Haste, Double Att, MDT, PDT, Evasion, Movement speed Evolith etc.) that cater to a much more broad spectrum of practical situations. In fact, the "Vs Family" should be one category, while "Battle Stats", "Enhancement Stats", and perhaps even "Skill Stats" would be possible others.

Possible NEW Evolith Categories (http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/NewEvoliths-Web.jpg): (Please add your suggestions in the "New Evoliths! Tell SE what you want Added! My Suggestions + Yours >>" (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/5121-New-Evoliths!-Tell-SE-what-you-want-Added!-My-Suggestions-Yours-gt-gt?p=69733#post69733) thread)

Making Evoliths interchangeable/customizable like BLU Spells:
With so many unique choices that are so very situational, it just never made sense to me that Evoliths were not interchangeable similar to BLU spells. I mean, you work your butt off to create the gear and make it look unique, and you have to work just as hard to obtain powerful Evoliths, only to be stuck with a Super Situational pieces of equipment. Granted, you can now remove the evoliths from the gear, but it still is far too much effort wasted when all the player wants is options. It just never made sense, which is why my Ebur gear is still not fitted with Evoliths to this day. ><

If the gear could be refitted on the fly (without Synergy) by users that simply have the Evoliths in their possession, the uses of the gear would sky rocket. Perhaps adding an "Evolith Attatchment Tool" item that would allow players to do this via a new evolith attatchment menu. The tools could be created via the Synergy process and sold in on the AH. The process could even have it's own unique animation while refitting/attatching Evoliths to gear:

*Possible Evolith Attachment Tool animation* (http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/EvolithTool-Web.jpg).
There could be a short penalty wait in-between swapping Evoliths similar to what BLUs deal with as well.

BLUs can alter their spell set based on any situation that arises so long as they have the spell in their list, and it would make perfect sense to mirror this functionality with these customizable pieces of gear. Everything else in the Ebon-Type Gear set structure is fine otherwise, since it takes effort to forge the set from scratch to something unique. I say reserve the Synergy portion of the process for forging the gear alone, and leave it at that.

The Attachment Tool:
Could be designed to work similar to the current "Magian Spectacles", that once used would spawn the attachment tool in front of the player to interact with. The animation appearance once the process is commenced would display the tool shuttering about, similar to the Synergy furnaces, while the player would use small foot pedals to quickly pump out steam. I wouldn't opt for this process to be very long or involved, but rather short and entertaining.

Storing Evoliths to be swapped out on the fly:
Evoliths should have a special holding sack that stores them similar to how attachments are stored with Automations. Once you acquire them, you can store them via an "Evolith Sack", that would compile them to be readily attached to ones gear using the Evolith Attaching Tool. This way, player inventory wouldn't suffer, and players could still strive to collect as many Evoliths as they want.

This type of overhaul would absolutely breath life into these wonderful pieces of gear. Just imagine a single gear set that had the potential to change based on whatever situation arose, and would have an endless selection of new and inventive options to choose from over each update. Gear that would be a staple set in everyones inventory because of it's super flexibility and growth potential to be ultimately unique. This coupled with the already unique color choice feature and job specific appearance of the gear would make this system whiplash back to the forefront like never before.

The gear still looks great, and I would hate to only use them as "walking around town gear". /salute and Thanks for the chance to share this with the Devs ^^

Other Evolith Threads-
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-"Aptant Specific Gear" by Kavik (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/3650-Aptant-Specific-Gear?highlight=evoliths)
-"Evolith (Untapped Potential)" by Airget (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/4998-Evolith-(Untapped-Potential)?highlight=evoliths)
-Allakhazam "Evolith Ideas?" by Nlhcru (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=29&mid=126568642120183517&howmany=50)

Alhanelem

04-10-2011, 01:35 AM

kingfury

04-10-2011, 01:58 AM

But just think about the similarities between Evoliths and BLU magic spells for a sec.

BLU magic- Not all BLU magic is awesomely powerful or even that useful, but there are very powerful spells to choose from.
Evoliths- Currently very much the case with nearly all evoliths. With a lot of new additions to the line up, Evoliths could be the same way.
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BLU magic- With all the possible BLU magic spells available to obtain, BLUs still collect them all for the shear "option" of maybe needing them one day on the battlefield.
Evoliths- You spend massive amounts of time obtaining powerful Evoliths from the long list of not so great options, but once you attach them and grow tired of them, you have to go through the long process all over again. This is terribly inefficient and could easily mirror BLU magic functionality.
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BLU magic- Doesn't allow instant swapping of BLU spells, but has a short wait time once spells are changed.
Evoliths- Involves a very lengthy process of changing out evoliths. This could again easily mirror the functionality of BLU magic spells
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I think players just want options for their gear. I would very much like to have ONE gear set that I can ALWAYS have in my inventory since it would be the most versatile set for any occasion. Why on earth wouldn't you want to swap "Vs Family"(or other types for that matter) Evoliths based on the monsters you plan on fighting that day?! Plus better/more useful Evoliths ^^/

Alhanelem

04-10-2011, 02:18 AM

Evoliths- You spend massive amounts of time obtaining powerful Evoliths from the long list of not so great optionsNo, I don't. I go after the specific ones I want and then forget about them forever. For instance, I made a Shikkoku Togi for PUP; The only thing I really ever EXP'd/Merited on was colibri, so I put Vs. Birds: Attack+ and Vs. Birds: Defense+ on them.

There are 4 unused types of evolith in the game. I'm hoping for broader effects, not more super specific ones that would lend to swapping.

Let's be abundantly clear: No one LIKES having to swap stuff all the time. They do it because SE makes all this situational stuff and they still want to be the best. But if people could just have one all-around set of gear, they would take it over swapping in a heartbeat. And you're talking about making things even more complicated by having us swap not just gear, but the evoliths on the gear? No thanks...

The only concession i'd be tolerating here is evoliths not being lost when you unsocket them.

kingfury

04-10-2011, 02:41 AM

No, I don't. I go after the specific ones I want and then forget about them forever. For instance, I made a Shikkoku Togi for PUP; The only thing I really ever EXP'd/Merited on was colibri, so I put Vs. Birds: Attack+ and Vs. Birds: Defense+ on them.
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Then you must have settled for crappy evoliths, or was either was VERY lucky in getting what you want each time. ^^ I said "Powerful Evoliths" as in the strongest and rarest Evoliths, not just the standard ones.

Let's be abundantly clear: No one LIKES having to swap stuff all the time. They do it because SE makes all this situational stuff and they still want to be the best. But if people could just have one all-around set of gear, they would take it over swapping in a heartbeat. And you're talking about making things even more complicated by having us swap not just gear, but the evoliths on the gear? No thanks...
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I'm very sure, that everyone likes different options to choose from. It's what made the Trial of the Magians the success that it is. We already have "Set Stat" types of gear to choose from, so there's nothing to be desired in that department except higher stats as we increase in level. This functionality would grow the gear's usefulness as more evoliths are obtained, just like Blue mages are from obtaining more spells. And it would not have to be All the time if more balanced/efficient Evoliths were introduced. My suggestion is being able to adjust the Evoliths on the spot should the NEED arise, without the use of Synergy. If preparing your gear before a battle sounds "complicated" to you, that just displays your playstyle. Many seasoned players take out time before setting out on adventures to plan ahead and set up the proper gear they might need for the situations to come. I haven't heard any BLUs complaining about having so many options at their finger tips. ^^

The only concession i'd be tolerating here is evoliths not being lost when you unsocket them.

Yeah, you shouldn't lose Evoliths at all. That's like a BLU losing a spell just because they want to swap it for another.

Teraniku

04-10-2011, 05:44 AM

Alhanelem

04-10-2011, 05:46 AM

I said "Powerful Evoliths" as in the strongest and rarest Evoliths,There are no 'powerful evoliths." only a handful are useful at all, but they certainly aren't "powerful.'

Evoliths are designed as (semi)permanent enhancements, not swappable peices of gear inside of gear.

Please stop analogizing blu spells and evoliths. They are nothing alike.

kingfury

04-10-2011, 06:02 AM

There are no 'powerful evoliths." only a handful are useful at all, but they certainly aren't "powerful.'
Evoliths are designed as (semi)permanent enhancements, not swappable peices of gear inside of gear.
Please stop analogizing blu spells and evoliths. They are nothing alike.
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Riiigggghhhttt... I'm aware that they are nothing alike currently... the thread title is "Making them Similar to BLU spells". o.o /

When I say "Powerful Evoliths", I'm referring to the Strength/Size of the +augment of course. Standard Evoliths have lower + values compared to the more potent ones.

Alhanelem

04-10-2011, 06:11 AM

When I say "Powerful Evoliths", I'm referring to the Strength/Size of the +augment of course. Standard Evoliths have lower + values compared to the more potent ones. The difference between such "powerful" verisons and "not so powerful versions" is trivial.

Evoliths should not be like BLU spells. They should be like evoliths, except that they should have better stats on them and not be lost when removed. You should not be able to switch them on the fly. If you want to do that, then I should be able to switch the augments on the customizable augmented items whenever I want. Do you realize how potentially OP that would be?

I already wish gear was less situational, not more.

kingfury

04-10-2011, 06:15 AM

This is too much of an Exploit in my opinion. You could basically take the eventual lvl 99 Evolith gear put x amount of slots in it, then switch Evolith's in and out depending on the situation. (Granted I'd like to see some decent Evolith's that I'd want to have but haven't seen any yet that's not out done by the high level armor sets.)
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Well, even if they kept the lvl of the current Ebon-Type Gear capped at lvl 70's and simply introduced more powerful/useful Evoliths over time, if the system mirrored that of BLU spells setting, one would still have to plan accordingly before a battle when choosing the appropriate Evoliths. As stated in the OP, "There could be a short penalty wait in-between swapping Evoliths similar to what BLUs deal with as well".

I'm not sure of how this would be an exploit. Each piece has up to 3 slots to be altered, so a player would have to spend about 5 minutes to swap out all the Evoliths between the pieces before they would take effect. So there wouldn't be any "Instant Swapping" going on ^^

kingfury

04-10-2011, 06:39 AM

The difference between such "powerful" verisons and "not so powerful versions" is trivial.
Evoliths should not be like BLU spells. They should be like evoliths, except that they should have better stats on them and not be lost when removed. You should not be able to switch them on the fly. If you want to do that, then I should be able to switch the augments on the customizable augmented items whenever I want. Do you realize how potentially OP that would be?
I already wish gear was less situational, not more.
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Okay, I'm beginning to think you misunderstand how this works. This is a suggestion to the DEV TEAM to alter the CURRENT failing functionality of the EVOLITH items to breath some new life into a dying system. The entire Evolith system is not very efficient as it stands, and I'm offering a possible solution to that very problem. Your feedback is greatly appreciated, believe me, but your arguments based on your opinions are devoid any constructive air.

Evoliths should not be like BLU spells. They should be like evoliths, except that they should have better stats on them and not be lost when removed.

This statement for instance, only shows that you are missing the current similarities between the two. Evoliths already resemble BLU magic spells functionality wise, they just don't have the same system of setting them up to use. Each BLU magic spell has benefits that can be used in conjunction with other BLU magic spells once set. The same can be said for Evoliths. You can change out BLU magic spells in order to equip them with other spells. The same can be said for Evoliths. There are TONS of different BLU magic spells to obtain and have access to use. The same can be said for Evoliths. So your above comment is contradictory to the argument at hand.

Swapping out Evoliths "On the Fly" based on what I'm proposing would be no different than what a Blue mage does with their spells currently, so it wouldn't be over powered unless the Evoliths themselves were in fact over powered which would then be a separate issue altogether. You wouldn't be able to instantly swap the Evoliths via the system I'm suggesting. If you're worried about swapping out gear augments though, you're gonna be pretty upset with the next major update ^^

Alhanelem

04-10-2011, 06:43 AM

to breath some new life into a dying system.I'm honestly leaning more towards asking them to let it die instead of breathe life into it. They couldn't just add item sockets and things that go in the sockets, no, they had to make a complicated system that eliminates a large portion of the customization potential (because there are different kinds of sockets and no way to choose the ones you want, thus each item in reality only has a handful of effect combinations possible.) If you could put 2h cooldown- items on several pieces of gear, then it would make a marginal difference, but only a couple pieces of gear can accept these evolith at all.

In WoW's socketing system, for the most part any gem can go into any socket, but you get more stats if the type of gem matches the type of socket. This allows for a good amount of freedom. SE tried to imitate this, but they put so many limits on the system that it failed hard. But even in WoW, you can't just swap gems around whenever you want (and gems are lost when you replace them)

Evoliths already resemble BLU magic spells functionality wise,Evoliths do not make things go boom, give you status effects or heal your HP. They do not resemble BLU magic spells functionality wise.

kingfury

04-10-2011, 06:48 AM

And what about the other similarities I listed? ><; lol I said "Similar", not "Exact". /stagger The two have similarities is my point. Again, I am aware that Evoliths are not Spells to be casted, but the two have similar workings such as enhancing a player via the stats they hold. ^^;

"Evoliths do not make things go boom, give you status effects or heal your HP."

Ahhh, but what if they could?! Well not the "boom" part, but what if new Evoliths did offer such enhancements? Do you see my point? Evoliths COULD be fitted to do just this if the Devs released new ones that did these types of things. And it would be desirable if they in fact did release such Evoliths.

kingfury

04-11-2011, 02:57 AM

**EDIT TO ORIGINAL POST**

Possible NEW Evolith Categories (http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/NewEvoliths-Web.jpg): (Please add your suggestions in the "New Evoliths! Tell SE what you want Added! My Suggestions + Yours >>" (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/5121-New-Evoliths!-Tell-SE-what-you-want-Added!-My-Suggestions-Yours-gt-gt?p=69733#post69733) thread)

macbain

04-11-2011, 03:04 AM

Gwynplaine

04-11-2011, 03:09 AM

Alhanelem

04-11-2011, 03:10 AM

how about making them a little more like materia in ffvii. allow us to level them up and swap in and out. that way you have to work your way up to the very best evoliths. that would add more to the time sink aspect that every mmo needs.
Having them improve after use isn't a bad idea; though I think the system needs to be simplified, e.g. get rid of the shapes and crap and let us us whatever evolith we want.

The concept is fine, the implementation is not.

kingfury

04-11-2011, 03:20 AM

how about making them a little more like materia in ffvii. allow us to level them up and swap in and out. that way you have to work your way up to the very best evoliths. that would add more to the time sink aspect that every mmo needs.
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Would be an awesome idea! I don't know how involved it would be to build in with the system, but it would definitely add a whole new dimension. Thanks for the feedback ^^/

kingfury

04-11-2011, 03:25 AM

I hope that the Evolith/Etching system stays dead and useless. I checked it out in earnest when it came out but yuck, it's just such a huge load of junk. It's hilariously over-complicated in truest FFXI style.
For the love of god don't encourage them to waste time on this, it's the biggest bullet FFXI players have ever dodged.
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><' lol I'm not disagreeing with you, which is why I'm proposing "an Overhaul" to the systems mechanics. ^^ I honestly don't mind fighting NMs for the Evoliths or even the pigments(though there should be a way to make the pigment via Synergy), but with a handful of choice remodeling like what I'm proposing (and more) to the system, it could create some of the most versatile gear in FFXI history now and forever.

macbain

04-11-2011, 04:06 AM

kingfury

04-11-2011, 04:38 AM

yea, i was just thinking it would be interesting if sometime during your fight the mob goes immune to physical damage and your war could toss on a GS with 3 evoliths on it like (instant) mp+300, int+50 and fire V (significant cool down timer). Make them a little more useful during that immunity phase.
all kinds of combinations for specific situations and every day use.
just thinking out loud and remember interesting =/= useful.
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Awww Man, you have no idea that you've just hinted to a major concept that I've been working on for weeks now! >< lol
It was completely unrelated to Evoliths though, but the concept is exactly what you're talking about :D /SHHhhhhhhh lol

I would absolutely love to have weapons that could do this, and I don't care how mad it would make mages lol.

Flunklesnarkin

04-11-2011, 05:21 AM

Interesting idea.. although i don't think they would need to make a new "attachment tool"

why not simply use the synergy portafurnace?

macbain

04-11-2011, 05:38 AM

that would give people a reason to level synergy, which also makes me think there has to be a way to use this to help crafters and the auction house in general...

kingfury

04-11-2011, 05:59 AM

Interesting idea.. although i don't think they would need to make a new "attachment tool"
why not simply use the synergy portafurnace?
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So long as it worked without having to use Synergy, I'm for it! lol ^^/

kingfury

04-11-2011, 02:22 PM

that would give people a reason to level synergy, which also makes me think there has to be a way to use this to help crafters and the auction house in general...
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I'd much rather the new augment system via Synergy be the reason that folks wish to lvl Synergy than this concept. ^^ lol

The way I see it, you don't need Synergy to kill the NMs for the Evoliths, so you shouldn't need Synergy to attach them to the gear. That's not to say that a tool couldn't be used to carry out the process, just not Synergy. I like the fact that it takes Synergy to "Forge" the Aptant gear into what it is since it's similar to a craftsman "crafting" gear, but the Evoliths shouldn't be so involved as to NEED synergy.

I say: Obtain Evoliths > Collect lots of them > Set them on the gear when different situations arise > all without having to know a lick of Synergy.

Rambus

04-11-2011, 02:48 PM

Evoliths should never have had the level of specificity that they have. People thought it would be like item socketing and you could choose augments for your items, but 1) evolith only work on certain items and 2) they all suck. I don't want them to be interchangeable (You can already change them, just not whenever you want), I just want them not to suck.

I like to comment on this since I am having problem understanding the OP atm.

When you say "socketing" do you mean what wow does with its gems to add to armor?. Again this is where i think WoW is better then ffxi, in WoW it is pretty much straight forward, you get gem color to match the socket then you get a socket bonus. you can put w/e gem you want in them but you will not get socket bonus. the only exception is meta socket gems who have to be put in a meta socket due to the much higher strength of them. I never got into evoliths, from what I seen they suck and was not worth my time trying to understand the system.

the colors even reflected the stats on them.

red was for power ( picture str, attack, MAB, INT in ffxi words)
blue was for defence ( HP ( and a lot of it), parry, douge so on)
Yellow: more supporting stats like crt raiting haste

then you had hybrids that reflected the mix:
purple was a mix of blue red ( like you could get HP+ but not as much as blue and STR (not as much as red)

orange was red and yellow so you could have hit rating and str or haste and str and so on

green ( blue and yellow) so a mix of ligher + of HP and haste and such

that was rule of thumb though, you could have blue with hit rating and such but main thing would be HP ( stamina):

http://www.wowwiki.com/Cataclysm_gems_by_color

basically the main colors ( red, yellow, blue) gave you one stat but a huge increase, then you had green, purple, orange that would add 2 stats but both stats would not be as high as the main colors.

I preferred mix colors because for the most part they added more ( i like adding the bit of 2 stats vs 1) and more flexibly of matching slot bonuses ( purple would match a blue or red).

Some meta gems (maybe all) required a count of gems you used, the hybrid colors would match ether or. Again reason meta gems have requirements like that is because they have a lot more power then the other colors.

like say you needed 3 red and 2 yellow for the meta gem, you could have 5 orange to meet it.

I had a meta gem that said it needed at lest 3 red to get the stats from it, I had a purple (red/blue) in a blue socket, an orange in a red socket (red/yellow), and an orange (red/yellow) in a yellow socket to meet the requirements of my meta gem. Those gems to match their sockets also unlocked socket bonuses for each of the armor it was on.

to me playing with stuff like that is easier to understand and more fun then the evolith system.

so SE you want to give players customizable armor? take a tip from that system ( WoW)

Xilk

04-11-2011, 03:00 PM

yeah, materia was fun... not sure how it would fit in this game though...

kingfury

04-11-2011, 10:50 PM

I like to comment on this since I am having problem understanding the OP atm.
...to me playing with stuff like that is easier to understand and more fun then the evolith system.
so SE you want to give players customizable armor? take a tip from that system ( WoW)
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Thanks for the comparison Rambus ^^

To be honest, Evoliths as they are currently a lot less complex than WoWs Gem system. o.o It's pretty straight forward in terms of enhancing the aptant gear that it's set to.

Steps
1.You obtain an Evolith that has + stat values that you're interested in.
2. You match the size, element, and type of the Evolith to the etched slot in the aptant gear
3. You attach the Evoliths via Synergy and boom, your gear now has whatever the + stats are from the Evolith.
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Though the WoW Gem concept seems pretty straight forward as well, it's has a deeper level of customization than what is found with Evoliths. The Evoliths just stack similar/different stats and you receive the benefits.

Now the biggest problem to date is in fact the lack of desirable Evolith stats to be fitted to gear. There are other set backs as well, such as the loss of Evoliths should you want to exchange them for another and more, so that's where my proposal comes in. I wish to beef up the Evolith selection and allow them to be swappable without using Synergy in the hopes that the system might offer valid choices to strive for.

Rambus

04-11-2011, 10:59 PM

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Thanks for the comparison Rambus ^^

To be honest, Evoliths as they are currently a lot less complex than WoWs Gem system. o.o It's pretty straight forward in terms of enhancing the aptant gear that it's set to.

Steps
1.You obtain an Evolith that has + stat values that you're interested in.
2. You match the size, element, and type of the Evolith to the etched slot in the aptant gear
3. You attach the Evoliths via Synergy and boom, your gear now has whatever the + stats are from the Evolith.
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Though the WoW Gem concept seems pretty straight forward as well, it's has a deeper level of customization than what is found with Evoliths. The Evoliths just stack similar/different stats and you receive the benefits.

Now the biggest problem to date is in fact the lack of desirable Evolith stats to be fitted to gear. There are other set backs as well, such as the loss of Evoliths should you want to exchange them for another and more, so that's where my proposal comes in. I wish to beef up the Evolith selection and allow them to be swappable without using Synergy in the hopes that the system might offer valid choices to strive for.

that is what i have an issue with, it is too much information. If i get frustrated trying to compile data I am simply not going to mess with it ( what happened with me with this system actually)

I like othello’s statement to reflect wow’s gem system, 1 minute to learn ( get gem and boom extra stats), lifetime to master ( part how you mix and match stat gems to unlock bonus and best combo for best performance. ) does not take a lifetime but that is the exact words of othello’s game

kingfury

04-11-2011, 11:11 PM

Eeek

04-11-2011, 11:17 PM

kingfury

04-11-2011, 11:20 PM

I completely agree with this.
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Nah ^^ most folks just don't want to put the imagination effort into making things better. Problem, Cause, and Solution are the keys to improving any issue ^^/

And in this case, we all know the problems with the system, and the causes, so now we just need the solutions part :)

I'm sure it doesn't sit well with the Dev Team that MANY players feel this way in regards to a system they invested man-hours and money into implementing into FFXI. I say the solutions are fairly simple, and the potential outcome would be game changing.

Eeek

04-11-2011, 11:44 PM

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Nah ^^ most folks just don't want to put the imagination effort into making things better. Problem, Cause, and Solution are the keys to improving any issue ^^/

And in this case, we all know the problems with the system, and the causes, so now we just need the solutions part :)

I'm sure it doesn't sit well with the Dev Team that MANY players feel this way in regards to a system they invested man-hours and money into implementing into FFXI. I say the solutions are fairly simple, and the potential outcome would be game changing.

And I think the Dev Team should be spending their time on new projects and older content that didn't suck.

Also, my opinion is that you should have quit while you were ahead. But don't let that stop you, though.

kingfury

04-12-2011, 12:14 AM

Rambus

04-12-2011, 01:01 AM

It's essentially the same thing ^^ you just have much more flexibility with the WoW Gem system. ^^

Matching the size, element, and shape simply meant you couldn't stick a Large Triangle wind element Evolith into a Small Round fire element gear slot ^^ It wasn't as complicated as it sounds :)

This is the concept basically, where the shapes are the Evoliths and the slots is what your gear would look like ^^ >>Example<< (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.mywoodentoys.com.au/images/wooden_toy_shape_sorter_block_box.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.mywoodentoys.com.au/product_info.php%3Fproducts_id%3D217&usg=__LjUUqnjjqW28SG1k7sQKfQkoamk=&h=458&w=450&sz=30&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=JOTMjx0EKwTfaM:&tbnh=126&tbnw=123&ei=jgyjTf7wCeG70QHYrLWNBQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dshape%2Bbox%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Den%26biw%3D1219%26bih%3D718%26tbm%3Disch%26prmd%3Divns0%2C36&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=119&vpy=76&dur=2066&hovh=226&hovw=223&tx=153&ty=112&oei=awyjTZ6PIsKWtwez1_GjAw&page=1&ndsp=27&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0&biw=1219&bih=718)

But the displeasure of it all came from investing so much time into these items when the stats were overly situational and penalized you by forever losing them should you wish to change them out. That's what I'm proposing to change.

This is where I have to disagree ( may be due to lack of understanding of the system)

what I saw was not equal disruption of stats (like wow gem offered all stats and helped all jobs/situations) FFXI system to mimic that was poor, not only do you have to figure out what is good but you have to juggle all this +XXX on mob y. Too much information to know for a system (know all the different sizes, figure out what is good, then look oh tis only for a mob i never fight /fume, scew this)

not a system I want to deal with, i/e not for me.

your system may make it better or trying to make ti better, I am just explaining why i could not stand SE's system.

Eeek

04-12-2011, 01:04 AM

lol You mean like raising the level of Fellow NPCs? Or Augmenting older gear? Perhaps revamping old areas with new content (Abyssea)? You have to understand, it makes perfect sense to make outdate/older systems better via improvements and refitting 1st in terms of game development vs creating brand new content. So in essence, the Dev Team would be taking an "older" failed system and making it "new" ^^

Quit what while I was ahead? /huh?

I believe you completely missed an important part of my comment: "And I think the Dev Team should be spending their time on new projects and older content that didn't suck."

1) Fellowship NPCs did have limited use, and unlike with Evolith Gear, I know many people with level 70 NPCs. It's only logical to update the NPCs in light of the level cap increases.

2) While I think we players first saw Augmented gear in the Evolith system, SE has since clearly demonstrated that the idea behind gear augmentation had a much wider scope than we thought when it first appeared with the Evolith system. Since then, we've seen augmented gear from ANNMs, FoV NM battles, Gold Chests in Abyssea, and the entirety of the Trials of the Magians system - from simpler weapons, to job /emote torques, and all the way to powerful Empyrean +2 Armor and Empyrean Weapons.

3) Abyssea was not the first example of new content in old areas. Until a solution is found, FFXI will be limited by both PS2 storage capabilities as well as the degree to which SE funds the continuing development of its old, legacy MMO. I don't know if SE wants to fund the development costs of new zones for events such as ANNMs, VNMs, Fields of Valor, FoV NM battles, the three Addon-Scenarios-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named (and all the NMs and NPCs associated with said expansion), Abyssea, and so on. There exists extensive stretches of unused space and dozens of largely unused zones in FFXI, and it's prudent to make use of some of that space.

I do think we'll see new zones in the future though. I'm fine though if we don't see pretty, new zones. I'd much rather experience good, fun content in reskinned zones. You know what game has fantastically pretty zones and no good content: FFXIV. And I don't know of anyone who'd call FFXIV a well-designed, fun, successful game. I'm thrilled that FFXI has the opposite problem of FFXIV.

4) "it makes perfect sense to make outdate/older systems better via improvements and refitting 1st in terms of game development vs creating brand new content [sic]." I don't know what to make of this sentence. While tweaking good, existing content is perfectly reasonable, it's an entire different matter to dig up and try to restore content that horribly failed two years ago. That dead horse has been beaten enough, and the good concepts from that system survived anyways. Those concepts evolved into something successful: Trial of the Magians. Never again will we play this game without augmented gear in one form or another.

The Dev Team already evolved the failed Evolith system into something new.

kingfury

04-12-2011, 01:24 AM

This is where I have to disagree ( may be due to lack of understanding of the system)
what I saw was not equal disruption of stats (like wow gem offered all stats and helped all jobs/situations) FFXI system to mimic that was poor, not only do you have to figure out what is good but you have to juggle all this +XXX on mob y. Too much information to know for a system (know all the different sizes, figure out what is good, then look oh tis only for a mob i never fight /fume, scew this)
not a system I want to deal with, i/e not for me.
your system may make it better or trying to make ti better, I am just explaining why i could not stand SE's system.
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No, your absolutely right about those pit falls lol ^^ Most all of the issues you quoted is what in fact sunk the systems potential to be successful.

But you've gotta trust me on the simplicity of the size, element, and shape thing though lol ^^ it was no tougher than playing with a wooden shape box.

And yes, the things I'm proposing, Better/Stronger/more Relevant Evoliths, along with simpler ways to attach and swap them out, would be a major improvement to the system.

kingfury

04-12-2011, 01:41 AM

I believe you completely missed an important part of my comment: "And I think the Dev Team should be spending their time on new projects and older content that didn't suck."
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o.o Not if your point was "new content". My point is that whether refitting older content or not, the Dev teams job is to fix issues with the content they implement to FFXI. Due to the overwhelming size of the game, however, certain things take longer to fix than others. My examples pointed out that even though things like "Fellow Npcs" hadn't been updated in years, the Dev team can still reach back and improve on that system. The same can be said for anything inside FFXI, Evolith included.
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4) "it makes perfect sense to make outdate/older systems better via improvements and refitting 1st in terms of game development vs creating brand new content [sic]." I don't know what to make of this sentence. While tweaking good, existing content is perfectly reasonable, it's an entire different matter to dig up and try to restore content that horribly failed two years ago. That dead horse has been beaten enough, and the good concepts from that system survived anyways. Those concepts evolved into something successful: Trial of the Magians. Never again will we play this game without augmented gear in one form or another.
The Dev Team already evolved the failed Evolith system into something new.
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Nah, they haven't evolved it just yet, unless they allow you to set evolith via the Trial of the Magians next update ^^ You're actually validating my proposal with this very line:

"Never again will we play this game without augmented gear in one form or another."

Now if the "Revised/Overhauled" Evolith system did not in fact hold the potential to drastically change the face of customizable gear, then I definitely would not be proposing it. It holds that potential so much so, that it could very well be better than options offered by likes of the Trial of the Magians system since you can't choose "Every" possible stat/enhancement when using it. You just have to think progressively for a few seconds to see that potential. ^^/

Gwynplaine

04-12-2011, 02:09 AM

kingfury

04-12-2011, 02:20 AM

Yo dawg, I heard you like changing gear. So we put changing gear in your changing gear.
Equip swapping already is precisely what you're describing only without the bullcrap and arbitrary point collecting. You switch out one stat for another. No evoliths needed. Even if they did make your changes the system would still likely be ignored because it's not as straightforward and elegant as swapping plain gear in.
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Well it's close to what I'm proposing, yeah ^^ But we have no gear in FFXI that can be altered to be anything we want, whenever we want to the degree of what this revised Evolith system could offer.

Even if you didn't want to stack the full 5 pieces full of Evoliths using this revised system, lets say you wanted to use just the Head and Hands to complete the current gear sets you have in your inventory(on different Jobs even). Picture being able to change Jobs, put on a near completed stat enhancing gear set that just needs better Head and Hand options, and then setting whatever Evoliths you need to fill those Head and Hand gaps thus completing your gear set. Then imagine doing the same for any other gear set on any other job you have! ^^

This is why I'm saying this Revised/Overhauled system could change gear options forever more in FFXI. Obtaining more gear is of course always a viable option, but imagine having a gear set that could changed to fit your growing needs whenever you needed it to. No purchase necessary ^^ just hunt down the NMs holding your new Evolith options, kill it a few times, and the new choices are yours to put anywhere you please.

kingfury

04-12-2011, 06:04 AM

yeah, materia was fun... not sure how it would fit in this game though...
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I had to think hard to remember exactly how materia was used all those years ago now ^^;

I think I would reserve such a concept perhaps for possibly strengthening individual ULTRA RARE Evoliths through the use of The Trial of the Magians system or even special Quests.

These Ultra Rare Evoliths themselves could start fairly powerful in terms of stats, but then be gradually upgraded through a series of Trials or Quest that could ultimately set them apart from all other Evoliths. They could even gain multiple stats per one Evolith, making them really desirable in comparison to other Evoliths. Perhaps only one Evolith of this kind would be able to be fitted per gear/weapon slot as a result. Here's a quote from the FF wiki describing how Materia leveled up that really sounds like our TotM's system:

"Winning battles earns Ability Points, which are Experience Points for Materia. Just like characters, Materia levels up when it gains enough AP. Some Materia allow access to stronger commands when leveled up, others allow the user to use the granted command more times, others give a stat bonus that grows larger, and so forth. When Materia reached its highest level, it is "mastered", and a second Materia with the same powers is born. Thus, with patience and enough leveling up, even one-of-a-kind Materia could be reproduced infinitely." (read more about FF Materia (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Materia))

In any case, the concept would fit nicely ^^

kingfury

04-12-2011, 11:37 PM

Interesting idea.. although i don't think they would need to make a new "attachment tool"
why not simply use the synergy portafurnace?
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Just to reevaluate this comment:
If they could add new options to the current Portafurnace that indeed allowed players to swap out Evoliths without using Synergy, it could indeed save development time on creating a New Tool for the process.

I actually have a Porafurnace (not sure where i put the thing now that i think about it ><), and I can't remember how involved it was getting it now that I think back, but if it's too involved I'd opt for these to be handed out by current Synergy Npcs standing by Synergy Furnaces (perhaps for a fee).

Great suggestion, Thanks ^^/