Elemental Enfeebles - Shock/Rasp/Choke/Burn

[Zuidar]

These spells at very low levels were somewhat useful to lowering stats against enemies, but at this point of the game they haven't had use due very little stat reduction towards high end content. Any possibilities in looking into adjusting these spells for much higher stat reduction?

[Nyarlko]

Changing them to a percentage basis stat reduction and/or greatly increasing their inherent accuracy and/or greatly increasing their DOT effect would all go a long way to making these relevant in more situations in the ilvl world.

[Selindrile]

Percentage based stat reduction (or gimmicky/proc mechanics) are the only things that could save them.

[Zuidar]

I'm hoping the Devs will find actually read this and consider adjustments to these spells. A huge potency boost to the stat reduction should come to mind, definitely percentage based and should add a high innate magic accuracy bonus. And please Devs, do not give us an excuse to say "Impact exists to lower stats" unless you're willing to make an Ilvl Twilight cloak for that

[Olor]

I think it would be great to bring these spells into usefulness again. I'd honestly like all spells to be useful at every level. It seems wasteful to have spells that don't ever get used.

[BBWallace]

I would have rather had Burn II,Frost II,Choke II,Drown II,Rasp II as are 550 gift instead of Aspir.

[Albel-Nokbel]

Could add the same effect that Enspell II's have but duration in line with the debuff.

Burn -> reduces water resistance
Frost -> reduces fire resistance
Choke -> reduces ice resistance
Rasp -> reduces wind resistance
Shock -> reduces earth resistance
Drown -> reduces lightning resistance

[Zuidar]

Changing them to a percentage basis stat reduction and/or greatly increasing their inherent accuracy and/or greatly increasing their DOT effect would all go a long way to making these relevant in more situations in the ilvl world.

I'm hoping the Devs are reading all these posts for the Elemental Enfeeble debuff spells so we can get a response from them.
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For big priority, a massive potency boost to stat reduction or big percentage stat reduction like you said, then in addition add very high accuracy to the spells and then boosting their DOT effects. I mean boosting the DoT effects isn't really that significant, but that's welcome. The main focus should be the Stat Reduction potency effects, either give huge boost to their potency, or change it to percentage base reduction. And please for the love of Altana SE Devs, please DO NOT bother trying to add gear that mainly boost their potency when you can easily just adjust the spells themselves unless you can do both then that's fine, but if you can't adjust the spells specifically, it's a waste to add gear that enhances them and the boost from gear is very low and weak.


I would have rather had Burn II,Frost II,Choke II,Drown II,Rasp II as are 550 gift instead of Aspir.

As much as I like to see T2 elemental debuffs, I don't think their potency would of been very significant. Would be like they made the spells just to be there.

[Sicycre]

Hello, everyone!

In regards to the elemental-based enfeebling spells (and also other magic spells), the effects and power have been set to match the level in which they are learned.
Instead of upgrading the power of these lower level spells, we would opt to introduce a higher tier version; however, due to the limited space for new spells the team decided to prioritize the addition of tier VI elemental magic spells.
We believe that these spells were more desirable by a majority of players, and we appreciate your understanding on this decision.

[Jakuk]

Hello, everyone!

In regards to the elemental-based enfeebling spells (and also other magic spells), the effects and power have been set to match the level in which they are learned.
Instead of upgrading the power of these lower level spells, we would opt to introduce a higher tier version; however, due to the limited space for new spells the team decided to prioritize the addition of tier VI elemental magic spells.
We believe that these spells were more desirable by a majority of players, and we appreciate your understanding on this decision.

Fair enough, but why not change them as well, that way no need for new spells, can just adjust them so they're useful at 99, like the topic was created to ask.

[OmnysValefor]

Two brief question:

1) Is it impossible to base the DoT damage of these spells on player's level / ilvl?

2) Can you remove spells? Have you ever considered doing this? If you removed all of WHM's bar spells and gave WHM RDM's barspells along with a trait (say, WHM5) to make them aoe, and likewise for Protect/Shell, you would gain 25 slots of spells. As Jakuk points out, if you merge Gain-STR(etc) and Boost-counterparts, that's 32 slots of spells.

If you announced two months in advance that you were removing these, and made a single NPC available with all these spells (if a server-side conversion is just too difficult), that would give people plenty of time to update macros and buy the spells.

Something like--

Day 0:
Make announcement
Put WHM on RDM counterpart spells.
Add trait to whm.

Two months later
Remove WHM duplicates from the game

[Jakuk]

Two brief question:

1) Is it impossible to base the DoT damage of these spells on player's level / ilvl?

2) Can you remove spells? Have you ever considered doing this? If you removed all of WHM's bar spells and gave RDM's barspells along with a trait to make them aoe, and likewise for Protect/Shell, you would gain 25 slots of spells.

If you announced two months in advance that you were removing these, and made a single NPC available with all these spells (if a server-side conversion is just too difficult), that would give people plenty of time to update macros and by the spells.

Something like--

Day 0:
Make announcement
Put WHM on RDM counterpart spells.
Add trait to whm.

Two months later
Remove WHM duplicates from the game

Just do it if you have Gain-??? you automatically get Boost-??? in the update, same with other spells.

[OmnysValefor]

The data conversion might be more effoet than SE cares to put in, that's all I was saying.

But yes, gain-/boost- too. 7 more slots.

[Alhanelem]

Hello, everyone!

In regards to the elemental-based enfeebling spells (and also other magic spells), the effects and power have been set to match the level in which they are learned.
Instead of upgrading the power of these lower level spells, we would opt to introduce a higher tier version; however, due to the limited space for new spells the team decided to prioritize the addition of tier VI elemental magic spells.
We believe that these spells were more desirable by a majority of players, and we appreciate your understanding on this decision.
The thing is these spells scale with stats, they just do so very poorly. These spells would be used alongside nukes if they were reasonably worth the time taken to cast them (the three compatible ones).

Just because a spell is learned at a low level doesn't mean it can't scale at all to higher level. I mean, look at the tier I nukes. They still have a place, sort of. They do far more damage at level 99 than at level 1-10, at least.

[Shiyo]

Hello, everyone!

In regards to the elemental-based enfeebling spells (and also other magic spells), the effects and power have been set to match the level in which they are learned.
Instead of upgrading the power of these lower level spells, we would opt to introduce a higher tier version; however, due to the limited space for new spells the team decided to prioritize the addition of tier VI elemental magic spells.
We believe that these spells were more desirable by a majority of players, and we appreciate your understanding on this decision.
That doesn't make any sense.

The spells could simply scale more with int, scale more with skill, SCALE WITH ILVL/CHARACTER LEVEL, etc.

[Urmom]

So you prefer to make a new tier but when that was a no go just give up? Why not just go back to the upgrading the spell itself idea. Also elemental debuffs already scale with int to an extent that no preilvl character can achieve so not sure about level learned thing...

[Malichi]

I am unsure why this idea came to me, but why not make it so that while choke shock rasp and the like are not affected by MAB (but do have an INT modifier) be directly affected by Cascade. So Cascade and Rasp for instance, damage = Base + Base x Current TP and it drains TP by a certain amount per tick, Occult Accumen is switched off for the duration of the spell. That would be neat. Or a far easier solution would simply be to remove the 150 int cap that currently exists and expand the dot/debuff tables appropriately. A SMN can lower int by 63 for 60 seconds I don't see why BLM can't be the way to lower other stats as significantly (pending magic accuracy checks of course.)

[Zuidar]

Hello, everyone!

In regards to the elemental-based enfeebling spells (and also other magic spells), the effects and power have been set to match the level in which they are learned.
Instead of upgrading the power of these lower level spells, we would opt to introduce a higher tier version; however, due to the limited space for new spells the team decided to prioritize the addition of tier VI elemental magic spells.
We believe that these spells were more desirable by a majority of players, and we appreciate your understanding on this decision.

That is very understandable for preferring T6 elemental spells. That was the reason why I proposed adjusting Elemental DoT spells as an alternative option. Their stat-down effects are very weak for high-end content. The current Stat reduction at max is -13 and is very weak (useful but weak) in end-game content.

[Zuidar]

After the recent feb update with major changes enemy combat and magic skills and magic evasion / changes to some geo spells/ duration boosts to the enfeeble spells Distract and Frazzle/ changes Bard Songs, I wanted to go back to this thread and bring this subject back up. So they are able to adjust various spells, while looking at Frazzle and Distract (although they are only enfeebling magic spells), Bard songs. The whole "Effects and power have been set to match the level in which they are learned" didn't make sense then and yet they just adjusted "other magic spells" now (although very reasonable on why they did), it doesn't help either way on how they can just overlook these spells and not choose the alternative option to adjusting the -stat potency/magic accuracy/duration. Yes, they said on the matter of higher tier versions, they prioritized Elemental Tier VI elemental magic spells, which was perfectly fine, but to just leave the elemental debuff spells as they are with a very weak -13 stat reduction just because they are at learned at very low levels and just leave them obsolete but then adjust "other magic spells" doesn't make sense to me far more than at the time of the Dev response.

[Zuidar]

Well not exactly the kind of results to see as alternatives to buffing the spells but new equipment in the form of BLM's Reforged Relic +2/+3 boost Elemental Debuff's potency... so that's something I guess

[Dzspdref]

I think it would be great to bring these spells into usefulness again. I'd honestly like all spells to be useful at every level. It seems wasteful to have spells that don't ever get used.

I immediately thought of Deodorize spell when I read this. I think the ONLY time I used Deodorize was when I learned it to see the effect and animation lol.