Vagary Woes - Increasingly More Difficult To Run. Lack Of Incentive.

[Kylos]

This is a story of a Vagary Linkshell which is on the verge of collapse. Back in June 2015, I was tired of seeing no Vagary events, and others players having to pay extortionate amounts of gil to get their clears. My aim was to make a Vagary linkshell which would get players their clears for free, as long as they worked hard and followed direction. The first couple of months was rough, as I scoured the Cerberus server for potential members. It was fun learning the basics, and over the months we became a well-oiled machine which found new ways of beating it.

Somehow the LS attracted some of the best players on the server, mostly GMT and EST players. As Cerberus doesn't have much of an EU population, we had to run later to accommodate for our American friends. In the end, we became so strong we would clear Vagary every Tuesday with 18 players on a server which struggled to reach 500 players outside Japanese primetime. A month ago we were killing the whole thing in less than two hours.

But while we succeeded in getting players their clears, there's other parts of the content we have not. I can honestly say we've been running every single week since June and have never seen Tartarus Platemail drop from Plouton. How can we do Vagary for 10 months and not see one drop from Plouton? I know it's meant to be rare, but seriously? And yes, I am aware there have been many posts pointing to the drop rate on this elusive piece.


While we've never seen it drop from Plouton, we've been successful during Vagary Campaigns. On the first campaign, we saw three Platemails go to regular members through the random drop. We assumed this good fortune would continue, but since then we've only seen two (some campaigns didn't give any), one of those going to an outside player, and the other going to a pearlsack member who didn't really want it.

And while we see many different campaigns, Vagary Campaigns are rare. This is bad news for the linkshell, as it seems the best players only show when campaigns are on. And should we blame them? When you can do all five NMs, pick the random option, and get something terrible like a Rabid Visor? Or an Etched Memory? It's very discouraging when you put in so much work and get nothing worthwhile in return.

Many of our members continued to run with me because I made the content fun and easy to understand. I tried my best to encourage members to practice, and get better with every run. Many players have come and gone, they spent their time in the LS, got everything they needed, helped us for a while, and moved on. And again I don't blame them, because they were waiting months to see a Platemail drop from Plouton, to actually see progress, but the discouraging drop rate and random choice option does nothing but turn them away.

The server has been crippled after many endgame LS left for Asura and Odin, and now we're lucky to see over 300 members at gather time. The last two weeks there's been less than 300 players on the server, and it's clear many of those are doing Ambuscade, an event that can be soloed any time, and is casual and doesn't require much planning or strategy.


Vagary is different. It should be exceptionally rewarding. It is a lot of fun, but it can only be fun for so long til players grow tired of it. I believe I'm the only player who publicly announces a weekly event on Cerberus, and today, after Rancibus screwed us over once again by timing us out at 1% (not exaggerating) when several members needed the clear, I considered breaking the linkshell. My linkshell members reassured me that I do a fantastic job, that the server needs me and my linkshell. Without VagarySpeaking, the server would be completely dead at our time, and no one would get Vagary clears.

I'm not going to beg you. I'm not going to cry. All I can do is offer suggestions, and it would be really cool if someone responded, if anyone from SquareEnix would respond and let me know if there's any plans to tweak Vagary for those who like doing it. Please don't let Vagary die, because it's essential to players who want Empyrean Reforged, and how will they ever reforge their equipment if they can't find anyone who will run it?

So here's my attempt at some suggestions.


- Make Vagary Campaign permanent. At least this way, players have a choice of a gil item/equipment and a random drop, whereas others can try their luck and go for two random choices. This would increase the likelihood of platemails, but not too much that everyone will have one.

- Make a Records Of Eminence objective for Plouton. 50-100 Ploutons gives a key item which can be traded for a Platemail. By doing this it sets a target, and if a linkshell is unlucky for ten months, at least the members who stuck through it are rewarded in the end. Could give other rewards for those who don't want the platemail.

- Increase the drop rate on Plouton. After doing Vagary over ten months, the drop rate is so abysmal I don't believe it exists. It's become a running joke in my linkshell, whenever anyone mentions the platemail, I'll say "Body? What body? Never heard of it". Would it hurt to increase the drop rate even slightly? Not expecting it to drop 100%.

- After so many Ward Key items (all five) turned in, the skulls give an option of an extended reward. How many times? 25 times perhaps? Clear the entirety of Vagary 25 times and get the choice of a Platemail, stacks of gil items, or something new? Either way, it would encourage players to clear Vagary over and over, and the progress would be real and measured.


But this isn't just about getting Platemails, the event has other problems, such as Rancibus, and the spawn conditions on Perfidien/Plouton. While I admire the fact you need some luck in the Rancibus run, it's heartbreaking when members play their hardest and lose out because "we were unlucky that time". Perhaps reduce the amount of pillars after each NM? How it is, if you're unlucky (which happens to us a lot), it's very easy to time out. And this includes an 18 person alliance, we have timed out with 18 players on Rancibus.

As for Perfidien and Plouton, the MB requirements are a little too much for some. While veteran players mastered it, including one member of my linkshell who rarely joins us on Scholar to solo two of the phases, it's becoming increasingly difficult to do them. You either need a SCH, or a SAM, and finding players willing to play these jobs, and know how to do it? Very difficult indeed. Again, the challenge is finding the right players for the spawn conditions, while the NMs themselves ain't too difficult.

I can understand why the event had these difficult conditions in the beginning, as it forced the best players to experiment to figure it out. It took my linkshell several weeks to not only find out what needed to be done ... but to put that in to practice and spawn the NMs. I imagine anyone else trying to lead this would be scratching their heads and giving up after a while. Does it need to be this difficult at this stage? Why can't Vagary be more "casual" player friendly?


Apologies for the long post. I'm a disgruntled leader who does everything in his power to ensure players get their clears and enjoy doing themselves. I like to teach, I like to coach, and it's fulfilling to see them progress and be better players leaving the linkshell then they were when started out. It should be an event which is far more rewarding, and should encourage a full alliance, as far, far too much content is scaled to six players these days, and Vagary is the last event which doesn't punish you for bringing more.

Thanks for reading. Please up vote my post if you agree, because it seems to go a long way in getting suggestions noticed. Thanks to everyone who appreciates the hard work I put in, and congratulations to everyone who ever got a clear with our linkshell VagarySpeaking.

[Stompa]

I did Vagary legs with 14-person alliance. The leader who shouted for the group, for three hours, was a Japanese veteran player, on his super PLD. A lot of the other people were also Japanese master players.

We did two runs, and failed both times. First time we failed, a RDM cast Cure III on the PLD, and the two mobs he was fighting went and one-shotted the RDM. This despite the PLD having hate, and lots of enmity gear.

Second time, similar, but with Erase spell, and a single mob hating on one of the other WHMs.

So both times we failed / kicked-out because of the freaky "somebody was KO" rule, and because the enmity system is very strange imho. Duration of double fail run, including /shouts, was five hours total. So no empy legs for me, and I don't want to try again because it was a horrible experience.

[Kylos]

I'm not surprised Stompa, Vagary is still difficult to master for many, and I had to run the event for several months before I could understand it. Hate is wonky, and the KO rule on Perfidien and Plouton is harsh. We lost a few pops in the autumn time because of that rule.

Last night was the first time a few of the players in our alliance had done the content. We tried our absolute hardest from the first second of the Rancibus run to get through it. because we had 16 players and we could still lose because of "bad luck on pillars". Which we did, we had the worst luck after Brimboil, we had 22 minutes left, but we had to do every single pillar and Rancibus spawned at the end with 1 minute 30 seconds to go. I couldn't find us a Scholar for the run, otherwise it would have died in that time. Our PLDs had to improvise and set up a skillchain, and our six blms + smn + cor (myself) threw everything at it. But in the end we were timed out at 1%. I wouldn't be surprised if those first-time players never want to do Vagary again after that experience.

On the other side, two times (in 10 months) we've managed to pop Rancibus after three pillars and cleared the zone with over 30 minutes left. The difference between bad luck and extreme good luck is over 30 minutes in that zone. As for Perf/Plouton, we've had Plouton warp out because a SMN healed it too much with Astral Conduit. It's not just about keeping everyone alive, you can't heal them too much either. And if you screw up at any stage you have to start over. Many find it difficult to find this information, and if you're running with Japanese players, it's even harder because of the language barrier.

[Olor]

This event really shouldn't be locking players out of their AF3.

And Kylos, I just want to say thank you. You're the kind of LS leader that makes this game worth playing - folks like you do so much for the community - and I hope that the devs listen and do something to make this event more worth running for you.

[Kylos]

I hope so Olor. It's nice to get people their clears, even if it's only once a week. I've always been that way, I've spent the majority of my 11+ year FFXI life as a leader, whether it was a social LS, Dynamis LS, or in recent times my Vagary LS .. it's nice to help others even if I don't know them.

[Raydeus]

Vagary and Incursion are in dire need of adjustments, so I hope the current dev team is already considering changes to them.

[zataz]

I did Vagary legs with 14-person alliance. The leader who shouted for the group, for three hours, was a Japanese veteran player, on his super PLD. A lot of the other people were also Japanese master players.

We did two runs, and failed both times. First time we failed, a RDM cast Cure III on the PLD, and the two mobs he was fighting went and one-shotted the RDM. This despite the PLD having hate, and lots of enmity gear.

Second time, similar, but with Erase spell, and a single mob hating on one of the other WHMs.

So both times we failed / kicked-out because of the freaky "somebody was KO" rule, and because the enmity system is very strange imho. Duration of double fail run, including /shouts, was five hours total. So no empy legs for me, and I don't want to try again because it was a horrible experience.

the first action on a mob doesn't give hate it just aggros it u have to hit it with a ability 2Xto get hate =P
btw what is a super pld =P
also if we ever end up on the same server hit me up my link clears them with 6 man and getting u the win would not be a issue =P
if u wanna take a trip for a few here and get your win that is fine too just give me some heads up so i can get my bros on the same page =P

[Stompa]

the first action on a mob doesn't give hate it just aggros it u have to hit it with a ability 2Xto get hate =P
btw what is a super pld =P
also if we ever end up on the same server hit me up my link clears them with 6 man and getting u the win would not be a issue =P
if u wanna take a trip for a few here and get your win that is fine too just give me some heads up so i can get my bros on the same page =P

A super Pld, in the case of this Japanese gentleman, would be a Jobmaster with completed all RME swords and shields. His main has been PLD since forever and he is very good at it.

Enmity is considered broken by many players, there are lots of threads about this subject. In certain events enmity seems to behave randomly at times, even assuming the new normal is not broken, there are clearly errors occurring.

My point was not really about enmity, but about the "one death = game over" rule which is ridiculous. Enmity just makes this rule even more risky.

Thankyou for your kind offer of assisting me. I have however tossed my lvl 109 empyrean sets now. My enthusiasm for further hoop-jumping and mousewheel-running is at null point zero. To be quite honest, I don't like the built-in obsolescence of ilvl gear.

I will most likely be playing my locked-at-75 second-character in the future, so that mobs/NMs/events in old areas Vana'diel are still a fun and interesting challenge, and I can use my lvl 75 gear knowing it won't be made obsolete every few weeks.

[Selindrile]

I loved Vagary, it's the perfect kind of system in FFXI imo, requires teamwork, feels hard, but with synergy and progression it becomes very easy, as most of the Empy reforged items are becoming less useful (outside of some swap peices) it becomes less rewarding, but still great content, I wish more had even been done in that vein, that said:

I couldn't agree more with Kylos about Tartarus mail, it's droprate is abysmal, I was on break when the campaigns have been running, I've yet to see one drop though 2 are in our shell due to those campaigns, obtained while I was gone. The droprate on that thing is not realistic to how FFXI is run in this day and age... it feels like a hold-over from a bygone era when the point of XI was to bash your head against a wall until either it or your head gave, that's not the XI of today, and it's something I don't want to return to.

On an unrelated (except for the feeling it gives me) note, what the heck is with Reisenjimma augments, I thought they learned their lesson, completely random augments are horrible, the latest skirmish gear was the first "random" augment system I didn't hate due items having 3 seperate slots and different stones, (and I love ambuscade back augments) why do we keep returning to these completely random systems that everyone hates? Choosing a path, or an augment, or at the very least rolling one slot at a time is a thousand times better.

[Kylos]

Liking all the feedback. Wanted to add that we did another Vagary run on Thursday (due to the failure of Tuesday), and after doing /yells for two hours, I managed to get 14 of us .. with a Scholar this time. And yes, we had luck on Rancibus and finished the zone with over 15 minutes to spare. We even carried on and did Perfidien/Plouton/Putraxia, and no deaths in the end. We came very close to Plouton warping out because it was acting strangely. It was changing weakness as frequently as a toddler changes their mind (it changed weakness in a few seconds several times) .. so one skillchain + MB healed it for 8-9% of its life while I spammed "Stop!" in the party chat. We were lucky that time.

We have a LS rule where the most attended player has the right to lot Platemail if it drops (which is me). But we've killed so many Ploutons it's got to the point where I take us in so I can lock a Dark Matter, which is OK .. at least I make some gil out of it. What I don't understand is .. why did SE give us a Dark Matter campaign for Reisenjima gear instead of adjusting Vagary and encouraging players to farm the content more? It's like .. someone forgot that Vagary drops Dark Matters so they handed them out for free. I find it increasingly more difficult to sell Dark Matters because of those campaigns.

[zataz]

A super Pld, in the case of this Japanese gentleman, would be a Jobmaster with completed all RME swords and shields. His main has been PLD since forever and he is very good at it.

Enmity is considered broken by many players, there are lots of threads about this subject. In certain events enmity seems to behave randomly at times, even assuming the new normal is not broken, there are clearly errors occurring.

My point was not really about enmity, but about the "one death = game over" rule which is ridiculous. Enmity just makes this rule even more risky

Thankyou for your kind offer of assisting me. I have however tossed my lvl 109 empyrean sets now. My enthusiasm for further hoop-jumping and mousewheel-running is at null point zero. To be quite honest, I don't like the built-in obsolescence of ilvl gear.

I will most likely be playing my locked-at-75 second-character in the future, so that mobs/NMs/events in old areas Vana'diel are still a fun and interesting challenge, and I can use my lvl 75 gear knowing it won't be made obsolete every few weeks.

well then im a super pld =P also if u change your mind at some point let me know !

[Stompa]

well then im a super pld =P also if u change your mind at some point let me know !

You are a very kind person, thankyou. ^^

:)

[Kylos]

I've reached out to the server a little more and hopefully we can do a full run tonight. It would be nice to know if the team are considering any changes to the content; or a Vagary Campaign at least.

[Kylos]

Had a nice run last night. My LS is growing and is looking healthy again. We killed Palloritus and Rancibus with no issues. One thing a couple of our members had a problem with was getting Magic Bursts without killing to spawn Plouton. They wasted a crazy amount of time and mobs getting it right, but it was only their second time doing it.

They wasted so much time we got to Putraxia and timed out .. so we had to re-enter and a couple of members who needed the clear had to leave. Still, it shows how annoying these spawn phases can be, and for anyone who's never done it before, would be a major roadblock in getting them the clear.

[Kylos]

Also just wanted to add that I'm so tired of getting Etched Memories .. Codex, and other pieces of gear I don't need from the random option in Leafallia. Last week I begged (sarcasm overload) for an Etched Memory .. and it gave me one. This week I didn't beg for anything, and I got a Codex. I've been kicked in the nuts by the random option every week for 6-7 months, and damn .. my nuts are tired of the punishment. What's the point in a random option if it's never going to drop anything besides an etched memory or piece of gear you already thrown away 10+ times? I remember a time when I got three Rabid Visors in a row. I must have had at least five Incarnation Sash.

Are you tired of the random option kicking you in the nuts? Are you tired of clearing the entirety of Vagary .. just so "The master does NOT deem you worthy"? Please, if you're sick and tired of being kicked in the nuts on a regular basis, respond with your story and share the abuse. By the way .. I'm going to keep posting here til either 1) someone from SE responds, 2) a Vagary Campaign starts, 3) news of adjustments to Vagary, or 4) I get banned from the forums. I'm going to keep this post alive for many months til something happens. And not for my sake .. no, this isn't for me. This is for every single player who's been kicked in the nuts by Vagary.

[Kensagaku]

My only objection is that you don't have to pick the random option; if you're going for anything besides the platemail, you can obtain it via the actual choices, to my knowledge. If you're complaining that random gets you equipment and memories you don't need, then go for specifics. Otherwise, if you're going for the best piece from Vagary with the random dial, then accept random as random. I'll admit that the drop rate from Plouton is a little ridiculous, as we've yet to see one ourselves, but the random option shouldn't be dealing you out one every other time either. So, random is as random does, when it says it pulls from the entire pool it pulls from the entire pool. Need a material, or a specific armor piece? Pick them manually. Want the platemail? Luck is luck, as it always is in the game.

[Jile]

It's frustrating not having clears for my wifaru and I but with only one zone win and Vagary being bereft of life during the very limited time we're online we accepted ilvl119 AF3 just wasn't happening for us and moved on.

There needs to be a solo-duo friendly way to get the ki's.... I'm not asking for platemail or drops... I'd like a mini fight (think smn avatar mini vs normal) with solo survivable content on all jobs exclusively for the win ki's.

[truxton]

I loved Vagary, it's the perfect kind of system in FFXI imo, requires teamwork, feels hard, but with synergy and progression it becomes very easy, as most of the Empy reforged items are becoming less useful (outside of some swap peices) it becomes less rewarding, but still great content, I wish more had even been done in that vein, that said:

I couldn't agree more with Kylos about Tartarus mail, it's droprate is abysmal, I was on break when the campaigns have been running, I've yet to see one drop though 2 are in our shell due to those campaigns, obtained while I was gone. The droprate on that thing is not realistic to how FFXI is run in this day and age... it feels like a hold-over from a bygone era when the point of XI was to bash your head against a wall until either it or your head gave, that's not the XI of today, and it's something I don't want to return to.

On an unrelated (except for the feeling it gives me) note, what the heck is with Reisenjimma augments, I thought they learned their lesson, completely random augments are horrible, the latest skirmish gear was the first "random" augment system I didn't hate due items having 3 seperate slots and different stones, (and I love ambuscade back augments) why do we keep returning to these completely random systems that everyone hates? Choosing a path, or an augment, or at the very least rolling one slot at a time is a thousand times better.

I disagee with your random augments statement with Reisenjima gear. It's good that they are random because it keeps the stones valuable and worthwhile to farm. I for one, have most the gear I need from Reisenjima BUT I still help others with NM's and try to go there as much as I can so I can farm more stones for free. The random stones augments keep me going back for more. Yes it would be nice to max out MB and ACC on some pieces but that would be too easy

[truxton]

[QUOTE=Selindrile;576365]I loved Vagary, it's the perfect kind of system in FFXI imo, requires teamwork, feels hard, but with synergy and progression it becomes very easy, as most of the Empy reforged items are becoming less useful (outside of some swap peices) it becomes less rewarding, but still great content, I wish more had even been done in that vein, that said:

I do agree with you here. Empy reforged is becoming less useful. I still use 2 pieces however - The hands for beastmaster is still amazing, and the legs for whm basically gives you unlimited MP for cures. For months I've been trying to convince my wife to order pizza one night and take a break from cooking dinner and join in on vagary clears so she can get her 119 empy body for blm. When she finally did she ended up getting amalric body a few days later from Pakecet anyways. LOL!

[Kylos]

Vagary Campaign would be cool. Even if it's a week.

[OmnysValefor]

A super Pld, in the case of this Japanese gentleman, would be a Jobmaster with completed all RME swords and shields. His main has been PLD since forever and he is very good at it.

Enmity is considered broken by many players, there are lots of threads about this subject. In certain events enmity seems to behave randomly at times, even assuming the new normal is not broken, there are clearly errors occurring.

In Vagary and Incursion, there is a mechanic called party-hate. Once agro'd, everyone is on the hate list, as if they had performed some action against the monster themselves. This was SE's answer to the fact that a single PLD could hold half of a delve, bosses included, by himself (when Delve first hit).

What this "Super PLD" was trying to do was 'supertank', which works in most areas. If you only agro the mobs but perform no action against them, they'll hit you forever no matter how much you are healed. In many cases, even if you die, the mobs go back to an idle state, ready to agro the next person that naturally agros them.

What he should have done is agro the mobs, pop sentinel, rampart, warcry and begin healing himself while spreading out Flash and Provoke between things when they were ready to be used again.

[Kylos]

Boooooo! Having to go yet another month with no Vagary Campaign. And still no answer to this thread.

[Kylos]

C'mon SE! Give us something. A hint of a possible Vagary campaign, or even acknowledgement that the content needs some minor tweaks? Or even putting us in our place and saying "No, Vagary is not changing and there will never be another campaign .. ever, so live with it". Anything along those lines please.

[Sicycre]

Hi, everyone!

I'm happy to inform you that there are plans in the works for a future Vagary campaign, so please hang in there!

[Kylos]

Hi, everyone!

I'm happy to inform you that there are plans in the works for a future Vagary campaign, so please hang in there!

Made my day. Thanks for listening to us, and we will certainly take advantage of the campaign. Please make it more than one week because we can't be doing Vagary every day; I can run my LS through it twice a week max.

[Zeldar]

Might I suggest that your linkshell starts to do other events other than just Vagary. This would keep members more interested. You can't expect them to hang around for 1 event that they are getting tired of spamming, especially since you can't buy a platemail drop even if you are a Trump. I'm not sure how many times per week you run Vagary, but maybe mix it up and do Vagary only a third of the time, then add in more updated events like Gaes Feet, Ambuscade, even just a relaxing night of breaking up into capacity point parties. This would help turn your shell from an event shell to an everything shell. I would say the only drawback is the time and research it takes to run different events but, judging by your posts, I don't think thats an issue. Not my idea, its how our linkshell operates.
As for having issues with the magic bursts, its really just an issue of removing gear to adapt to the damage required. If your blm is a badass, have him remove body, head,legs,feet and hands. Use tier 1 for the first requirement and tier 2 for the killshot requirement. We usually have these done in 1 set of elementals. Good luck !

[Kylos]

Might I suggest that your linkshell starts to do other events other than just Vagary. This would keep members more interested. You can't expect them to hang around for 1 event that they are getting tired of spamming, especially since you can't buy a platemail drop even if you are a Trump. I'm not sure how many times per week you run Vagary, but maybe mix it up and do Vagary only a third of the time, then add in more updated events like Gaes Feet, Ambuscade, even just a relaxing night of breaking up into capacity point parties. This would help turn your shell from an event shell to an everything shell. I would say the only drawback is the time and research it takes to run different events but, judging by your posts, I don't think thats an issue. Not my idea, its how our linkshell operates.
As for having issues with the magic bursts, its really just an issue of removing gear to adapt to the damage required. If your blm is a badass, have him remove body, head,legs,feet and hands. Use tier 1 for the first requirement and tier 2 for the killshot requirement. We usually have these done in 1 set of elementals. Good luck !

Originally we only ran one event a week, which was Vagary on a Tuesday. Over time we started doing Geas Fete on Wednesday or Thursday, and last week we did Reisenjima for the first time. Tomorrow we are going to finish the T1s we didn't do last week. Luckily we have plenty of members so we have different setups for Vagary and Geas Fete each week. I honestly can't do anymore than that because I work two jobs and have a kid, so that's as much as we can do.

[Zeldar]

Well then, what you are already doing is what I was suggesting anyway, so carry on ! lol

[Raydeus]

Hi, everyone!

I'm happy to inform you that there are plans in the works for a future Vagary campaign, so please hang in there!

Any chance we'll get alternative ways to unlock Empy armor +1 reforge (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/50257-Vagary-alternative-to-unlock-Empyrean-1-reforge) along with this campaign?

[Akivatoo]

Hello Sicycre,
can you take a look about this potentical add in game please ?

-Add new town npc for reset 1hour ability
-Add Survival guide in adoulin
-Add Voidwatch NPC in adoulin
-Add new npc in escha zone to store pop item for ki ( or just allow thé current one to do it)
-Add new rainbow campaign voidwatxh spoil+ (better chances to get HMP pouch)
-Add "/lasttrustset" command to recall all five last npc we call
-Add possibility to trade all Abdhaljs tread/dust/sap at the same time to avoid the 50 trade you need actually to finish one Ambuscade cape (1 trade for each line of augment can be cool ;)
-Add ilvl119 on Shield and instruments
-Fix /lockstyle to avoid wear of when Seiryu remove one part of armor
-Thank you for wardrobe2 we now wait for slot grow from 80 to 255 ;)

[Limecat]

I'd settle for being able to buy the clear KIs with login points. The odds that I'll ever be part of a group clearing these things is extremely low, so all my emp tidbits are stuck at 109 indefinitely.

[Zumi]

Can't get ilvl 119 Empyrean gear cause nobody does this event and it takes killing some NM for key items to unlock the gear.

[Ulth]

You know it's ironic. If they removed the clear requirement to reforge Empy, more people would do Vagary anyway. If more people can reforge Empy, then the upgrade items are more valuable. If the upgrade items are more valuable then more people would farm vagary for gil.

[Kylos]

Woooot! Vagary Campaign next month. **FFVII Fanfare music**

[Raydeus]

Woooot! Vagary Campaign next month. **FFVII Fanfare music**

Oi Kylos, what are the jobs that you usually have a shortage of for Vagary? I'm thinking about maybe trying to hitch a ride for the KIs for Empy reforge during the campaign if I'm lucky enough to find groups doing the thing whenever I play (too random to make plans though.)

I know RDM is a no go, but I'm starting to gear up WHM for Sinister Reign. And if gearing another job isn't too much of a hassle I want to see if I can give it a try this time.

[Kylos]

Oi Kylos, what are the jobs that you usually have a shortage of for Vagary? I'm thinking about maybe trying to hitch a ride for the KIs for Empy reforge during the campaign if I'm lucky enough to find groups doing the thing whenever I play (too random to make plans though.)

I know RDM is a no go, but I'm starting to gear up WHM for Sinister Reign. And if gearing another job isn't too much of a hassle I want to see if I can give it a try this time.

Why what's wrong with RDM? A RDM can support in a tank party, it can Haste II a SAM for skillchains (perf/plouton), it can dispel and distract II mobs. Or you can put it in a mage party to either support or help with nuking.

Either way I only take the following jobs: PLD WHM BLM SCH RDM BRD GEO COR SMN SAM. -- We usually have two PLDs for Palloritus and Rancibus, then one of the PLD switches to SAM to pop Perfidien/Plouton in the following run. I've taken the odd BLU sometimes, but we don't buff for that job as we take 6-7 BLMs and have them MB off the SCH when necessary.

[Zeldar]

Yeah Ray, don't give up on your RDM ! Smart shells still use them, so keep it geared and keep it alive.

[Raydeus]

Thanks for the info.

And no worries, not giving up on RDM (it's 90% of the reason I've played XI since NA release.) But experience tells me that unless I'm part of the LS the chances of getting a spot for an event as a RDM are practically zero. So it's always good to have at the very least another job ready as an option.

Let's see how the dice rolls go this time around.

[Olor]

Thanks for the info.

And no worries, not giving up on RDM (it's 90% of the reason I've played XI since NA release.) But experience tells me that unless I'm part of the LS the chances of getting a spot for an event as a RDM are practically zero. So it's always good to have at the very least another job ready as an option.

Let's see how the dice rolls go this time around.

Good luck finding a group! Hope it works out.

[Kylos]

Pretty successful runs last week as we took 17-18 players and had no issues killing all five bosses on Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday. But no platemails! Not a single person has got a platemail yet. Still not seen the platemail drop from Plouton and it's the one-year anniversary for my Vagary LS. What else do we need to do? Spam Vagary every second of every day? Do Vagary for another year? What's it going to take to see some Platemails drop for us? Have we not earned it?

What I really want to know is if Treasue Hunter effects the drop on Plouton. We've tried it a bunch of times but it does nothing but give us the same loot pool. If we don't see any Platemails during this three week campaign it's going to be frustrating. Not that I ever expect Platemail to drop, because as far as my linkshell is concerned it doesn't exist. We ain't seen a Platemail drop since the last Vagary campaign in 2015, and on that occasion it went to someone who didn't want it through the random drop.

[Kylos]

Wow, after many months of nothing but Codex, today we finally saw a double Platemail drop during the campaign! A fellow DRK friend of mine got one. And the other? My dad, Quilly. He's been doing Vagary with my LS for over a year, so to finally get him it is huge for us. We had to be persistent to get it, and I've done extra Vagary events the past two weeks. I'm really tired of leading the event, but it was worth it to see his reaction, and Vellens.

The linkshell has been running for over a year, and so far we've had 7 platemails drop to the following players: Overlordandy & Calabria, Rituck, Rusch, Nekdal, Vellen and Quilly.

It has never dropped from Plouton. It has never dropped outside a Vagary Campaign. All 7 platemails dropped during a Vagary Campaign. Tidis and I continue to wait patiently. Hopefully it doesn't take another year for one of us to get.

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13522727_10201656280406290_8614874319054858040_o.jpg

[Olor]

Grats on the drops! Sorry you're still waiting for yours.

[Stuzey]

just my thrupence half penny, it would, kind of made more sense to introduce ambuscade as a more difficult event and weaken vagary, but it all depends on resources and how many new events they intend to introduce in the future

[xiozen]

...as a more difficult event and weaken vagary, but it all depends on resources and how many new events they intend to introduce in the future

Well I was gifted when a very awesome player from Fenrir server took pity on my character and invited me to be "carried" through all 5 NMs wins... I was amazed at how "3" star master nukers perform--cause there were only 9 of us total... and we breezed through vagary... I say breezed... don't take it lightly. Vagary is vicious and unrelenting content. It took 8 mastered jobs, all nukers and plds, to breeze through this content. I would dare say that 5 of them had REM.

This allowed me to upgrade my empy gears on SMN and PUP to max... however it also showed me, how gated this content really is. Without their help, I would not have my maxed out empy gear. So I feel your concerns about this--this is content that casuals will NEVER enjoy, unless they are carried through, by a group who had run this to the point they could do it with their eyes closed, nukes going as high as 85k... 65k.... 55k repeatedly... I was floored.

I can't imagine all things being equal, any other "type of job" non-nuker would be capable...

[Zeldar]

See? Vagary is easy !

[Olor]

See? Vagary is easy !

Uh, no that wasn't the point of his post - his post basically said "thank god this super geared team carried me" - which is not something most players have access to and it is a really crummy way to gate basic content that should be open to anyone. Reforged Empy +1 is macro gear for the most part and gating it this way is just ultra frustrating for NQ players who would otherwise have a fun goal to work on to gear their characters a bit better.


Vagary is vicious and unrelenting content. It took 8 mastered jobs, all nukers and plds, to breeze through this content. I would dare say that 5 of them had REM.

What part of that says "easy?"

[Raydeus]

Uh, no that wasn't the point of his post - his post basically said "thank god this super geared team carried me" - which is not something most players have access to and it is a really crummy way to gate basic content that should be open to anyone.

Fairly sure he was being (Sarcastic +1) :3

[Zeldar]

Aye, sarcasm, you can have this......

[Olor]

Wow, der... sorry about missing the point there.

:)

[Mithlas]

New crafts require vagary mats.
I guess there's incentive for people to run vagary now.

Well... for the statics that continue to run vagary to keep running vagary. 8D

[Mithlas]

Here's another funny part...
Since the new crafts require vagary mats, upgrading to 119 Empyrean Armor just got more expensive.

:/

[Raydeus]

Here's another funny part...
Since the new crafts require vagary mats, upgrading to 119 Empyrean Armor just got more expensive.

:/

On the plus side Empy +1 is so not worth the hassle and expense that it makes it much easier to forget about it.

[Mithlas]

On the plus side Empy +1 is so not worth the hassle and expense that it makes it much easier to forget about it.

It really depends on your job.
It's extremely valuable for BST for the hands. The head is also extremely valuable for SMN now that avatar's favor affects BP recast... so that's not necessarily a true statement. :}

[Raydeus]

I'm fairly sure there are a couple of +1 pieces on each set that would be really nice to have, like RDM feet due to increased Enhancing duration +5% and +5 skill, and Legs due to Refresh potency +1. But looking at the stats:

Def +26
HP +15
STR +3
DEX +12
VIT +12
Att +10
Eva +13
M.Eva +11
Haste +1%
M.Def +1
Sic TP bonus +50
Ready TP bonus +50

This is the difference between 109 and 119 BST hands. Now I don't play BST, but it doesn't seem very valuable to me, same as with the RDM pieces. Or at least nothing that would be worth the hassle if I'm not in a group that does Vagary regularly already or have a good way to unlock the KIs. And if you add increased costs into the mix I just couldn't be bothered to look at them again. But that's just me. ( •̀ᄇ• ́)ﻭ✧

[Zeldar]

The important thing here is that the community asked for a fix to make vagary more appealing, and SE answered. Vagary is now a must for some crafters, and even more appealing to people there to make gil. On sylph, the vagary drop prices are sky high now. I could buy Mache earring mats for 100k total last week. I would need to spend over a million today. And the stinky ring....forget about it...

[Nyarlko]

The important thing here is that the community asked for a fix to make vagary more appealing, and SE answered. Vagary is now a must for some crafters, and even more appealing to people there to make gil. On sylph, the vagary drop prices are sky high now. I could buy Mache earring mats for 100k total last week. I would need to spend over a million today. And the stinky ring....forget about it...

They went about it the wrong way in my opinion in that case. Vagary boss drops that had a use were all expensive already, there was no reason to add additional load on a already limited supply.

The idea that the new recipes will get more ppl inside so the supply will increase is flawed too.. They are boss drops from group content + everyone now has a significant profit at stake regardless of which bosses go down + bosses are not loot pinatas dropping 2+ of each item per kill = More people fighting over each and every drop now + PUGs will be far more inclined to turn away players who need the clears to unlock Empy upgrades.

Any increase in supply caused by more people running it will be heavily outweighed by the much increased demand as synth materials. I find it very irritating that SE used Vagary boss drops for all of the new recipes, in some cases even multiples per synth. It's going to be a lot harder to make the choice to upgrade Empy armor now given the rarity, gil cost and opportunity cost.

[Zeldar]

Things are NEVER good enough for certain types in this community. I can't imagine how aggravating that gets. The fix is inventive enough for me. I applaud you dev team. And I disagree with the last post. The fix forces you to earn your upgrade. Earn you say?????? Noooo, we want everything easy !!!! Sissies.

[Zeldar]

Seems like the only wanted fix for the small percentage of this community that actually posts on this forum is " just give it to me free already, or at least make it super easy for me and my trusts to get"

[Nyarlko]

Things are NEVER good enough for certain types in this community. I can't imagine how aggravating that gets. The fix is inventive enough for me. I applaud you dev team. And I disagree with the last post. The fix forces you to earn your upgrade. Earn you say?????? Noooo, we want everything easy !!!! Sissies.

I said nothing about "free" or "easy". The new recipes do nothing but raise the difficulty of upgrading gear due to the increased competition/demand for the mats and have heftily raised prices on my server which may put them out of reach of newish players. It was already quite difficult just to get clears checked off for most players. The upgrade mats are the same as they've always been. New recipes lower the chances of timing out trying to pop Rancibus by somewhere between "zero" and "zilch". It will be just as hard now as it was before to actually get the clear. The difference now is that the odds are good that a lot more people are going to be lotting against for the drops, which means the odds of getting one you need for an upgrade went down.

I would be pleasantly surprised if most of the groups who start doing this (who were not already going regularly) actually don't reject people because they still need their clears. "The stakes are higher so why should we take the risk of the new guy dying and ruining our boss pops?" :/ You can't say it's unlikely to happen since most players look at the risk/reward before spending a lot of time on something. There aren't exactly a ton of altruistic people running around you know? Have a feeling most of them run Vagary/event shells to begin with though :3 Thumbs up to the OP for sticking it out in the spirit of goodwill.

In no way should new recipes be considered to be a "fix" to any of the problems I've heard people complaining about regarding Vagary (or any other event) which were pretty eloquently explained in the OP. Perhaps I should have been clearer in the point that my dissatisfaction with the recipes is that SE is overloading the uses for certain Vagary boss drops when there are surely other mats they could have chosen that have fewer uses to begin with and wouldn't interfere with reforging. Using drops like Plovid Flesh or Defiant Scarf was a good idea since they had no other relevant uses. Using drops like Dark Matter and Defiant Sweat was not.

[Zeldar]

The point to putting these items in the recipes was to increase INTEREST in an already dead event. I am on one of the lowest population servers and have already seen a HUGE increase in the number of Vagary pick-up group shouts every single day. You are on the most populated server in the game , so I can only imagine that the number of pick-ups are greater. In the original post, the main gripe wasn't difficulty. It wasn't drop rate for anything except Tatarus Platemail. It was about the lack of interest in the event itself. I would say that they amount of interest in vagary has greatly increased, wouldn't you? Sooooo....problem solved...interest in the event is back. This should make it easier for everyone to get the clears they so desperately need. So yes, I am failing to see any logic at all in people griping. Rancibus is difficult to pop, yes. What exactly is the issue with difficult? There are so many other events in this game that are far beyond the difficulty of Vagary.

[Nyarlko]

The complaint was that there ARE issues with the event itself that demotivates experienced people from running the event. A single random death locking out TWO bosses (and even depopping them instantaneously if one is up) and the pain of losing to the clock rather than the boss itself(Rancibus) due only to unlucky pillars are both good examples of problems with the event itself that would be wonderful if they were adjusted. I wholeheartedly support the idea of reducing the number of pillars with each successive wave since that would address one of the most frustrating aspects of Vagary. "Difficult" does not mean the same thing as "frustrating". A full alliance of experienced and appropriately geared players should not regularly fail an event due to spawn mechanics only. When I was actively doing Vagary, we got a "bad run" there 1/4-1/3 of our runs. Downing the boss was not our issue, we just had problems finding the stupid thing. -_-;;

The drop rate on T.Mail is amazingly/painfully lousy and could probably stand to be raised a bit, to at least 3-5% maybe? Enough so that groups that run twice a week for 6mon straight don't become convinced that the thing simply doesn't exist. :-/ The OP suggested some ideas using alternate routes to encourage grinding repeatedly so that people would not feel like that it was pointless to continue doing it once they had their clears and whatever non-T.Plate drops they were hoping for, which would directly increase benefit to everyone who runs it. I like this idea. ^^

The new crafted gear is not a "fix" to any of the actual issues about Vagary and should not be treated as such. It is a good thing that traffic has increased. I am not arguing against that. As I said earlier, I object to the overloading of uses that they are doing with some of the boss drops..

I've been thinking about it though, and I can't think of too many other high-level content drops that would be appropriate for highest-end crafting tbh. There really isn't much that could be used out of Escha (other than ore, which is already used for all the cursed gear, so please no ._.) so Vagary would be the highest mats around, generally speaking. >_<;; Unless they are willing to start using the likes of Ashweed and Eschalixir for crafting that is.

[Zeldar]

The thing about the vagary mats is that they will eventually balance out. Defiant Sweat has already seen a drastic decrease in price since about a week after the update. So many people are doing Vagary that the auction house is flooded with these mats. If you look at the accessories themselves, most are well worth the couple of mil you will spend getting them. Sadly to say, the +1 will be crazy: the ones for goldsmithing are level 115 recipes so not too much getting high qualitied there. As for the earlier post about groups excluding people new to the event, don't be so sure. If you need the clear, offer to come along as whichever of your jobs they find most helpful, make it clear that you will follow all directions, and toss them a bone by saying you just want the clear so you won't even lot the mats. I personally wouldn't make you pass anything, but it may give more selfish leaders a reason to invite you. There is not perfect solution. They offered one that has greatly increased interest in the event, therefore greatly increasing peoples chances of getting clears. The two main gripes about the event have been addressed.