Cloudsplitter

[Areola]

Anyone that has access to this weapon skill can tell you that it is very weak. Its hard for me to believe that this Ws was intended to be this underwhelming. Its not very befitting of an empyrean weapon. I think there may be something wrong with it.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

It may be a calculating error, but you have to also remember one thing. Just because it's a WS off of a new endgame weapon, doesn't elate automaticaly to high damage.

[Areola]

its just my opinion and concern. I just think the reward is worth the effort(unlike with ALL the other empyrean weapons) and there could be something wrong with it.

[Atomic_Skull]

Cloudsplitter is a magic WS and you're wondering why it sucks?

[Areola]

hellfire doesn't suck

[RAIST]

most likely due to not exploiting the mods on it. I used to think Cataclysm was kinda meh until an LS mate turned me onto the affinity bonus it gets from my Pluto's staff. It seemed to get a little punch too from Neptune, but not as much. I started tweaking it out a little and before I knew it my BLM was landing almost 2k each on mandies in our cleave run.

STR/MND mods kinda stinks for WAR/BST. While the STR is a no brainer--if your MND is underpowered it could be holding it back a bit. IDK if it would get any help from a moldy earring, but could be worth a try too I guess (if you have one).

[Atomic_Skull]

STR/MND mods kinda stinks for WAR/BST. While the STR is a no brainer--if your MND is underpowered it could be holding it back a bit. IDK if it would get any help from a moldy earring, but could be worth a try too I guess (if you have one).

1 MAB = +1% damage on magic WS.

STR and MND are equal on cloudsplitter because it's a magic WS. It's unaffected by physical damage calculations.

[Atomic_Skull]

hellfire doesn't suck

Wildfire also has a 5.5 damage multiplier, you can use a Vulcan's Staff with it and COR can use Wizard's Roll and sub BLM for a whole lot of Magic Attack Bonus.

[Swords]

Trueflights the same way, most of the time I can only do decent numbers with it on a mob if its weak to magic or resistant to physical damage and its even more compouned that its only modifier is AGI.

[Zaknafein]

What sort of numbers are you putting up exactly, and against what target/zone?

[Areola]

What sort of numbers are you putting up exactly, and against what target/zone?

i was testing it out on the tabar beaks out in sauromugue champaign. The highest ws i could get was 1100 at 300% tp
Str at 79 +43(122) Mnd at 68 +42(110) Mab at 11% moldy and hecate's earring. at 100% TP cloudsplitter was averaging 750where primal red averaged 850 Chr at 81 +15(96) same Mab. i did both ws on the same mob so I'd know there was no lv difference tping on other mobs in the area. i don't know how to do exact extensive testing. so i'm probably doing it wrong by most peoples standards. If anyone else can test it correctly please let me know what I'm doing wrong and let me know your results

[RAIST]

reminds me...I gotta get back to making my @#$@#$ sea gorgets one of these days....

[Atomic_Skull]

Trueflights the same way, most of the time I can only do decent numbers with it on a mob if its weak to magic or resistant to physical damage and its even more compouned that its only modifier is AGI.

It's also affected by INT Magic Attack Bonus and Light Affinity.

[Karbuncle]

Almost all of the Epic Wildfire numbers i see are using Epic Atmas to enhance it. Atma of the Lion(? I think thats Fire:Major), etc. Ultimate, etc. Which produces great numbers. However I dunno if it hurts their DPS as much as it would hurt a BSTs or WARs, cause of the relatively small damage from their TP phase and large in WS phase.

If you geared your Atmas towards pure MAB, You'd likely get higher numbers, But your TP-Phase would suffer greatly, Which is the flaw with magical weaponskills (In Abyssea anyway, Not outside as there is no Atma outside). Cloudsplitter is basically "Primal Rend +1".

If you ever get a Farsha, Inside Abyssea you're likely better off knowing the WS damage is going to be crap, and gearing toward your normal DD ways (RR/VV/GH/Apoc/Etc), and using Cloudsplitter to activate Aftermath, and continue using Rampage.

Though, I'm wiling to humor the Idea it might be a glitch, But something tells me its not :(

[Byrth]

Clouds aren't very hard.


MYSTERY. SOLVED.

[blowfin]

reminds me...I gotta get back to making my @#$@#$ sea gorgets one of these days....

In the context of what we are discussing here, Sea Gorgets are a poor gear choice.


Atma of the Lion(? I think thats Fire:Major)

Lion is lightning, Smoldering sky is fire.

Back on topic, it does kind of suck that the Axe WS is so poor. People are right though, it can be boosted substantially with Atmas, Meds and /Rdm (why do people use and talk about /blm when /rdm gets the same MAB boost by the way?). Realistically, there are probably situations where Cloudsplitter is the right choice, depending on what you're fighting. We're just not in a position to regularly boost up our MAB to take full advantage of it like COR for example.

Also, for the sake of it. Here's a pretty complete build for CloudSplitter:
Ugly Pendant
Twilight Mail
Twilight Helm
Flame Sachet
Suzaku's Sune-ate
Fortis Mantle
Aqua Ring
Aqua Ring
Novio Earring
Hecate's Earring
Heafoc Mitts
Teutates subligar

[Areola]

Though, I'm wiling to humor the Idea it might be a glitch, But something tells me its not :(
I'd be lying if i said that it isn't wishful thinking. But finding out i wasted all that time on a ws that's worthless without a brew kinds hurts my FFXI pride. Even though its most likely not a glitch i would happily welcome any adjustments that would make this ws useful. At this point i wish i would have made the bow, or even the culb <_<.

[blowfin]

I'd be lying if i said that it isn't wishful thinking. But finding out i wasted all that time on a ws that's worthless without a brew kinds hurts my FFXI pride.

I was well aware that it wasn't going to be the greatest WS before I started making the Empy. I'm surprised other people haven't done this kind of research. Waste of time though? What is this game if not a massive waste of time? The thing is, it's still one of the best DD axes in the game at the moment and BST has an exceptional WS for Abyssea already in Rampage.

Having said all that, it would be nice if the fTP on Cloudsplitter could be boosted at least:D

[Atomic_Skull]

(why do people use and talk about /blm when /rdm gets the same MAB boost by the way?)

Because Wizard's Roll gets a bonus from BLM or /BLM being in your party.

[Areola]

IF there where any forums or sits that said anything about Cloudsplitter being < or = primal rend i would have made the bow and then got a charmers merlin. or maybe i didn't look in the right place for that info. Inside or outside of abyssea cloud will never compare to rampage.

[Zaknafein]

IF there where any forums or sits that said anything about Cloudsplitter being < or = primal rend i would have made the bow and then got a charmers merlin. or maybe i didn't look in the right place for that info. Inside or outside of abyssea cloud will never compare to rampage.

Yeah I hear ya there wasn't much info on it. I'm currently making farsha. While it not having huge #'s is sorta crappy I am still gonna finish it. Considering it's the best option for my Bst. Not interested in putting the time/effort and huge amount of gil into a mythic.

Out of curiosity do you have the corresponding lightning gorget/belt? Also what are you using as your off hand weapon? I'm doing the empy, and occ attk 2-4 axe. Spose worst case scenario I can use cloudsplitter to have aftermath active then spam rampage/primal rend till aftermath needs to be reapplied.

[Wheels]

A LS mate did his Farsha and was very upset that he wasn't breaking out huge numbers after seeing other 1 hand empyreans doing 4-5k consistantly, and as for wildfire a rng mate in ls did it and set up mab gear and atma and was doing 4k while a cor in ls was doing 7-8k+ no brews used.

[Areola]

Out of curiosity do you have the corresponding lightning gorget/belt? Also what are you using as your off hand weapon? I'm doing the empy, and occ attk 2-4 axe. Spose worst case scenario I can use cloudsplitter to have aftermath active then spam rampage/primal rend till aftermath needs to be reapplied.

I normally offhand the occ att 2-4 axe but sometimes i use the TP bonus axe. I'd use a ugly pendant for a neck piece and i haven't tried a lightning belt. when you have 100%-199% TP you get lv 1 aftermath and lv 1 only last for about 30 seconds. Unless your getting haste and or march the aftermath will wear off before your next WS. Also TP bonus doesn't affect the aftermath lv, at least not form my axe haven't tried any atmas yet.

[Karbuncle]

I normally offhand the occ att 2-4 axe but sometimes i use the TP bonus axe. I'd use a ugly pendant for a neck piece and i haven't tried a lightning belt. when you have 100%-199% TP you get lv 1 aftermath and lv 1 only last for about 30 seconds. Unless your getting haste and or march the aftermath will wear off before your next WS. Also TP bonus doesn't affect the aftermath lv, at least not form my axe haven't tried any atmas yet.

TP Bonus Axe doesn't work in Offhand does it?

Or is it different from all the other trial weapons and Martial Weapons :X?

[blowfin]

Because Wizard's Roll gets a bonus from BLM or /BLM being in your party.

Really? I have 90 COR and have never heard of sub jobs working for the job specific bonuses. Nor does wiki mention anything about this.


IF there where any forums or sits that said anything about Cloudsplitter being < or = primal rend i would have made the bow and then got a charmers merlin. or maybe i didn't look in the right place for that info. Inside or outside of abyssea cloud will never compare to rampage.

BG forums are a very good source of information whenever updates and new content get released. I'd suggest you lurk there a bit. Also, you could have posted a question on forums (either Zam or BG or FFXIAH) and i'm sure you would have got the same answer you're realizing now. Also, depending on when you started the Axe, chances are information for the WS might have been on wiki. Side by side the crit. based WS of the bow obviously has way more potential than the magic WS of the Axe. Before we even think about fTP multipliers and how Cloudsplitter starts with a lower value than Primal Rend.

[Areola]

I guess that's where i messed up i didn't go to BG. Whenever i found something on Zam or FFXIAH all i got where war's saying "IT SUCKS MAKE A UKON" or bst saying its primal rend +1(leading me to believe it would be better that primal rend) nothing about the damage or lack there of. I also new that the bow has a much more powerful ws but i spend the majority of time on my bst when i'm not with my ls so i chose the axe.

[blowfin]

Gotcha, it's still a fantastic axe and an achievement to be proud of. At the very worst you've probably decked out a bunch of people in +2 feet ^^

Also, with the aftermath it looks like it's clearly better than Primal Rend. Even one proc on Aftermath is enough to make it a better option by the looks of it.


Because Wizard's Roll gets a bonus from ... /BLM being in your party.

This has been tested and proven to be false. Subbing BLM is just plain silly if you have the option of /RDM available.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/5124-Job-bonuses-work-with-subjob-!?

[Atomic_Skull]

A LS mate did his Farsha and was very upset that he wasn't breaking out huge numbers after seeing other 1 hand empyreans doing 4-5k consistantly, and as for wildfire a rng mate in ls did it and set up mab gear and atma and was doing 4k while a cor in ls was doing 7-8k+ no brews used.

What atmas was the RNG using vs the COR?

[Areola]

Cor gets a 10-20% damage boost from there af3 feet if they use fireshot then wildfire

[saevel]

Cloudsplitter is a lightening elemental attack WS. Its pretty good for an ele WS, don't know why people are expecting it to compare to other crit hit WS. The reason your seeing all these crazy wildfire numbers is that the COR's are stacking it with +Fire / MAB atma's while your using RR / Apoc types. You want to do crazy damage on cloud splitter your going to need,

Atma of the Lion
Thunder Damage +40%
Triple Attack +10%
Physical Damage Taken -10%

Atma of the Blinding Horn
Thunder Damage +30%
Magic Damage Taken -10%
Conserve MP: Minor (useless on the jobs involved)

Atma of the Ultimate
Magic Attack Bonus +50
Magic Accuracy +50
MP -25% (useless on the jobs involved)

As for the stat to use more testing needs to be done on how this WS's fINT works. INT isn't always used for fINT, Wildfire use's AGI (P_AGI - E_INT) instead, along with a few other WS's. This could use STR or MND for fINT along with being one of the WSC's. MAB is also something to look at, pack it on whenever possible but please remember that 1 MAB does NOT equal 1% extra damage, this is a myth. The amount of additional damage is based on how much MAB you already have.

You have 24 MAB (from /RDM or /BLM) and you put on the 5% earring.
1.29/1.24 = 1.0403, or +4% damage not 5.

If your already at 74 (from atma + MAB II) then its,
1.79/1.74 = 1.0287 or +2.87% additional damage.

And while brewing you should be dealing retarded damage, technically thunder has more +DMG then fire. Fire can get +60 from two atma's, thunder gets +70 and the accuracy to go with it. Only their +2 feet and tendency to sub RDM lets them deal that kind of damage. As a WAR (or BST) your also dealing melee damage, so while your ZOMFG numbers may be less your still crushing them in total damage.

[Septimus]

Here is what annoys me about Cloudsplitter.

Most of the weapon skills for Empyrean DD weapons seem to be fairly good. It seems slightly ridiculous that Axe has an elemental weapon skill when Hand-to-Hand, Dagger, Sword, Great Sword, Great Axe, Scythe, Polearm, Katana, Great Katana, and Archery all have have physical weapon skills. I honestly do not understand the logic of giving an elemental weapon skill to BSTs and dual-wielding WARs. At least CORs will have a MAB set for Quick Draw, how many full-time DDs will have a MAB set?

Seriously, I want to know what Square was thinking by making a heavy DD weapon have an elemental weapon skill. And I know better to ever expect an answer.

[Areola]

I did some gorilla style testing on the gneiss leeches in Konschtat-A.

At 100% Tp with out MAB and and only the +40 i get form cruor buffs cloudsplitter does about 700 damage and at 300% it does about 1000 damage. Notice i said "about" and i'm going to say it a lot. I'm rounding UP to make the math easier. ~I'm lazy

So lets say your not normal and save up 300%tp every time you ws if you use ultimate, lion, and blinding horn that's a total of 120% that brings you to about 2200 damage. now lets add a novio +7 hecate's +6 and an ugly pendant +8 for 21 more MAB brings the ws to 2410. Now lets add /blm or /rdm for 24 MAB for 2650 damage. remember these numbers are at 300% TP. 100% TP would be about 1225 damage. based on what saevel said about MAB the damage would be less, but i'm not even going to pretend like i know how to calculate MAB perfectly :P

With this setup you sacrifice all your dd atmas on war and only gain 10% triple attack. The crit rate from using RR or GH alone would trump this in WS and melee damage. For bst you sacrifice dd atmas or pet tanking/dd atmas, if your pet is worthless you might as well be on war.

Basically out of all my QQ ing what I'm getting at is this ws isn't well designed for the jobs its given to as an empyrean WS and i don't see the purpose for its existence(unless war QQ'ed a lot about not having primal rend), and please don't say its great for brewing that's obvious, but I shouldn't have to spend 200K cruor to not regret making this weapon.

[Septimus]

i don't see the purpose for its existence(unless war QQ'ed a lot about not having primal rend)

Unless procing blue, I don't think that most one-handed axe Warriors even acknowledge the existence of weapon skills that don't start with "R" and end with "ampage".

[Xilk]

yeah, I would have preferred to have a good strong AoE WS. Magical or physical either way.. .physical probably better...
but it would not have to trump rampage... just hit everything in a little sphere. ^.^

[Ophannus]

Hasn't BST had enough of crappy magic WS? First they got Primal Rend, then Bora Axe and now Cloudsplitter. All are crap.

[sixo]

FYI bora isnt magical, just crappy, like mistral axe + bind.

[Areola]

Even bora axe hits harder than cloudspiltter QQ

[Valmur]

300tp I've done around 3300 odd damage with cloudsplitter (Lion, Blinding horn, Ultimate) lol :/

(100tp 1.2-1.9k)

[saevel]

Basically out of all my QQ ing what I'm getting at is this ws isn't well designed for the jobs its given to as an empyrean WS and i don't see the purpose for its existence(unless war QQ'ed a lot about not having primal rend), and please don't say its great for brewing that's obvious, but I shouldn't have to spend 200K cruor to not regret making this weapon.

Completely agree that its out of place for BST and WAR. You can set it to do pretty good ele damage for amber light farming, and its a monster during a brew, but otherwise its only good vs monsters who are physically resistant (eles and slimes). Axe doesn't have any elemental WS's assigned to it (other then Primal Rend), that is the only reason I can think that SE would create this.

[Crysten]

I literally had this same discussion with an LS mate after finishing their Farsha last night.

I will say the same thing here that I said to her: Farsha is still the best option for BST, and while your WS damage will never come close to any of the higher tier Empyreans unless you specifically gear for it with Atmas, the Aftermath effect is going to make you come out far better in the long run.

Someone mentioned it on an earlier page - use Cloudsplitter as a means to proc your Aftermath and follow up with Rampage. Best of both worlds. I will agree that it's odd they gave BST another elemental WS rather than a physical one, though.

However, if you're going to be short sighted enough to say it's a bad weapon for the WS alone, I don't know what to say to you. I can understand this argument should you have wasted your time on the WoE version, but the Empyrean by no means is a waste of time.

[Valmur]

Yea that's pretty much what I do, get 300tp doe 90sec aftermath for good dps (also with proc from the +2 set) gets a nice boost then spam rampage and repeat

(Now to work on guttler!) D:

[Areola]

I'm not saying the farsha is a bad weapon. The only weapons that beat it are the relic and mythic. But it is crappy that all the other empyrean weapons have a powerful or useful weapon skill that doesnt require 3 atmas and or 300% TP to do damage. Also the aftermath punishes the hell out of you if your duel-welding unless you sacrifice 2 rampages to get 300%TP. You'll lose out on 3-10k of rampage damage and the aftermath isn't going to make up that difference. Axe and shield would work better toward the aftermath effect and you gain fencer.

[Gotterdammerung]

Aftermath should overwrite itself. Aftermath should effect pets. TP mod should be bumped from 3.75 5 6 tooo 5 6 7
or the enitre Ws should be made AoE. And TP bonus effects from renauds +2 and atma of smiting blow SHOULD affect aftermath (they dont right now).

This WS isnt the worst thing ever. It has its uses but comparing it to everyother Emp WS it is just aweful and needs a bump.

[Septimus]

I'm not saying the farsha is a bad weapon. The only weapons that beat it are the relic and mythic. But it is crappy that all the other empyrean weapons have a powerful or useful weapon skill that doesnt require 3 atmas and or 300% TP to do damage. Also the aftermath punishes the hell out of you if your duel-welding unless you sacrifice 2 rampages to get 300%TP. You'll lose out on 3-10k of rampage damage and the aftermath isn't going to make up that difference. Axe and shield would work better toward the aftermath effect and you gain fencer.

But the question is, does the aftermath do enough damage that it justifies giving up both Rampage and your off-hand axe or is the base damage high enough that you can ignore the aftermath and simply use Rampage all the time?

Honestly, it sounds like the Devs went an out of their way to deter people from making this Axe. I feel like I am wasting my time trying to build one.

[Atomic_Skull]

I'm not saying the farsha is a bad weapon. The only weapons that beat it are the relic and mythic. But it is crappy that all the other empyrean weapons have a powerful or useful weapon skill that doesnt require 3 atmas and or 300% TP to do damage.

If you're not using MAB and fire affinity atmas with Wildfire you're doing it wrong. That's why Armageddon is a much better weapon for COR than for RNG (who are better off with Gandiva)

[Xilk]

Aftermath should overwrite itself. Aftermath should effect pets. TP mod should be bumped from 3.75 5 6 tooo 5 6 7
or the enitre Ws should be made AoE. And TP bonus effects from renauds +2 and atma of smiting blow SHOULD affect aftermath (they dont right now).

This WS isnt the worst thing ever. It has its uses but comparing it to everyother Emp WS it is just aweful and needs a bump.

yes to aftermath w/ pets and AoE. I;m not worried about the modifiers so much though. however, if cloudsplitter was AoE... lolz that would be fantastic!

ducal guard, Lions, RR, :P AoE farming and working on mass kill magian axes would be so much fun this way! I had to use Aeolian Edge on dagger to do this, and while it was fun.. its a dagger, and wind doesn't match my atma so much, and it doesn't work on puks....

Meh, I'm really waiting to see adjustments to Mythics. Aymur is no. 1 for BST. It has the aftermath including pets, AND it has pet attack bonus :D. (plus higher base damage at level 90).

[blowfin]

(plus higher base damage at level 90).

True yet misleading, Farsha wins in DPS (quite nicely) by virtue of the lower delay.

[Areola]

But the question is, does the aftermath do enough damage that it justifies giving up both Rampage and your off-hand axe or is the base damage high enough that you can ignore the aftermath and simply use Rampage all the time?

Honestly, it sounds like the Devs went an out of their way to deter people from making this Axe. I feel like I am wasting my time trying to build one.

I can tell you that with duel-weld the aftermath doesn't make up for the damage loss because of the large delay between attack rounds. Keep in mind that this is with only gear haste and unfortunately i don't have a personal bard/whm to fallow me around :( . I haven't tried it out one-handed yet.

And also regards to the weapon and weapon skill In my opinion its not worth it, I strongly feel like i wasted my time making it, and i would advise against making the weapon unless you can take it strait to lv 90(charmer's merlin has the same base damage as the 85 farsha). and the ws only makes my regret more painful. But that's my opinion.

[Septimus]

I can tell you that with duel-weld the aftermath doesn't make up for the damage loss because of the large delay between attack rounds. Keep in mind that this is with only gear haste and unfortunately i don't have a personal bard/whm to fallow me around :( . I haven't tried it out one-handed yet.

And also regards to the weapon and weapon skill In my opinion its not worth it, I strongly feel like i wasted my time making it, and i would advise against making the weapon unless you can take it strait to lv 90(charmer's merlin has the same base damage as the 85 farsha). and the ws only makes my regret more painful. But that's my opinion.

Well, that's depressing, but thank you for your honesty. Maybe if we put a bug in the developer's ears they can make the weaponskill useful for something other than brewing and on par with the other DD weapons.

[Areola]

That's what i'm hoping for.

[blowfin]

So i'm about 16 wings off finishing this thing and I'm busting to use it.

Is anyone able to tell me what kind of WS numbers they can get with the following setup in abyss?
-Atma of the Lion
-Razed Ruins
-Voracious Violet

please include meds or anything like that, whether you have full cruor buffs etc. tia:cool:

[Areola]

So i'm about 16 wings off finishing this thing and I'm busting to use it.

Is anyone able to tell me what kind of WS numbers they can get with the following setup in abyss?
-Atma of the Lion
-Razed Ruins
-Voracious Violet

please include meds or anything like that, whether you have full cruor buffs etc. tia:cool:

Target: Gneiss Leech Abyssea - Konschat
With just those atmas and cruor buffs(+40 all stats) 100%TP 900-1000, 200%TP 1300-1400, 300%TP 1500-1600. With ascetics tonic, ugly pendant, moldy earring, and hecate's earring did. 100%TP 1500, 200%TP 2200, and 300%TP 2500

[Limecat]

Numbers aside, I'm eager to get my Farsha up and running just because Cloudsplitter looks so awesome. I intend to find a crowded spot like Guku some afternoon, equip my Farsha, Viking Shield, and Varangian Helm, eat a Viking Herring, and start singing The Immigrant Song in /shout while I repeatedly Cloudsplitter things upside the head.

[Areola]

What's your full build for Cloudsplitter? I don't think I've ever seen you post much of it except for MAB earrings.

Also, were you using MAB earrings for those first tests or only on the second ones?


I've been doing some stuff outside Abyss recently too and I'm starting to notice stuff like this:
Blowin readies Rampage.
The Bark Tarantula takes 814 points of damage.

Blowfin readies Primal Rend.
The Bark Tarantula takes 1054 points of damage.

The above is subbing RDM but the point remains I think.

Then there's the potential VIT adjustment for critical hits... things start to look a bit different if that effects the damage we deal too.

ye be wantin' t' know me clousplitter build do ye? ye salty seadog ye

I didn't stack all the str and mnd possible but i feel i got a very good chunk from the gear i have available

head: twilight helm> 10str 10 mnd
neck: ugly pendant> 8mab
earrings: moldy and hecate's > 5 and 6 mab
rings: rajas and spiral ring> 10 str
body: kirin's osode(haven't goten my twilight mail yet T_T)> 10 str 10 mnd
feet: suzaku's sune-ate> 15 mnd
hands: ferine manoplas +2> 11str
waist: crudelis belt> 5 str 5 mnd
I don't have any mods on my back and legs cause I'm lazy. i never completed this build cause when i used this ws i didn't think it was worth finishing

The first test was w/o the earrings and pendant. The no.'s with earring and pendant and n ascetics are 100%TP 1100+ 200%TP just under1500 300%tp 1762 consistently

/rdm(mab) and fencer(tp bonus) will directly affect your primal rend damage, where rampage doesn't have a most amazing crit rait w/o RR, also from what I have seen at 100%tp primal rend hits harder than cloudsplitter

[Areola]

Numbers aside, I'm eager to get my Farsha up and running just because Cloudsplitter looks so awesome. I intend to find a crowded spot like Guku some afternoon, equip my Farsha, Viking Shield, and Varangian Helm, eat a Viking Herring, and start singing The Immigrant Song in /shout while I repeatedly Cloudsplitter things upside the head.

lol i love that :)

[Rambus]

Clouds aren't very hard.


MYSTERY. SOLVED.

lol >< sorry i came across this and laughed#

maybe someone was thinking this so they thought it would be strong:
http://www.shopncsx.com/images/view.aspx?productId=282

[blowfin]

ye be wantin' t' know me clousplitter build do ye? ye salty seadog ye

I didn't stack all the str and mnd possible but i feel i got a very good chunk from the gear i have available

head: twilight helm> 10str 10 mnd
neck: ugly pendant> 8mab
earrings: moldy and hecate's > 5 and 6 mab
rings: rajas and spiral ring> 10 str
body: kirin's osode(haven't goten my twilight mail yet T_T)> 10 str 10 mnd
feet: suzaku's sune-ate> 15 mnd
hands: ferine manoplas +2> 11str
waist: crudelis belt> 5 str 5 mnd
I don't have any mods on my back and legs cause I'm lazy. i never completed this build cause when i used this ws i didn't think it was worth finishing

The first test was w/o the earrings and pendant. The no.'s with earring and pendant and n ascetics are 100%TP 1100+ 200%TP just under1500 300%tp 1762 consistently

/rdm(mab) and fencer(tp bonus) will directly affect your primal rend damage, where rampage doesn't have a most amazing crit rait w/o RR, also from what I have seen at 100%tp primal rend hits harder than cloudsplitter

Thanks for that!

I need to do a lot of work on my build too, I've been holding off on twilight helm and mail until I get this axe completed really. Seeing as you didn't use any MAB gear with that first test I'm actually slightly more encouraged by the results.

I can see Atma of the Lion and Atma of VV becoming VERY frequently used for my BST. Sub in Apoc for DD, Ducal Guard for -100% PDT, hell even Allure if you want to sub RDM isn't that much of a crazy idea. 30 MND is a nice solid boost to your rewards and Cloudsplitter. The problem is finding situations where it's going to be the right sub choice. Fafnir is my only really good example at the moment where RDM is the ideal sub, i'm sure there's more stuff out there though.

Put it this way though, Cloudsplitter is mostly for BST I think. Most WAR aren't going to be caught dead with a one handed axe setup for most things. If you're a WAR and don't have BST leveled, then this weapon isn't the smartest idea as it currently stands. Also, I'm starting to strongly suspect they want us to use this with an Axe/Shield Setup, which makes RDM start to look like a very appealing sub.

[blowfin]

I intend to find a crowded spot like Guku some afternoon, equip my Farsha, Viking Shield, and Varangian Helm, eat a Viking Herring, and start singing The Immigrant Song in /shout while I repeatedly Cloudsplitter things upside the head.

You also need a pair of these (http://www.ffxiah.com/screenshots/52438).

[Xilk]

True yet misleading, Farsha wins in DPS (quite nicely) by virtue of the lower delay.

I was mainly thinking of WS damage, but thanx for pointing this out.


Edit: also, pet attack bonus says hello :P which one has higher dps again?

[Untamedheart]

Something they should address with this weaponskill is the lack of a dStat portion in the damage formula.

From Studio Gobli:
Primal Rend has a (player CHR - mob INT) x1.5 portion.
Wildfire has a (player AGI - mob INT) x2 portion.
Sanguine Blade has a (player INT - mob INT) x2 portion.

Cloudsplitter would be a little improved if they at least add either a STR or MND - enemy INT portion to the formula. Would be vastly improved if it were a STR+MND - enemy INT. ^^

[Keinn]

After working hard and getting a lot of help doing the trials to unlock the weapon Farsha, it was very disheartening to see just how weak Cloudsplitter was. It isn't any where near as strong as other Empyrian weapon skills, even with optimal gear and optimal atmas. SE developers, if you're reading this, please address this in a future update if possible. m(_ _)m

[blowfin]

Edit: also, pet attack bonus says hello :P which one has higher dps again?

Well, of course, but I was referring to straight base damage vs. delay. The lower delay will add up for things like WS frequency too. It`d be interesting to see a side by side comparison of them.

[blowfin]

So um, bumping this thread.

People seem to be complaining that BST takes too long to kill things, and on occasions have even burnt their roast while waiting (may or may not be totally true), I think boosting Cloudsplitter would go a long way to improving this situation.

[Zaknafein]

So um, bumping this thread.

People seem to be complaining that BST takes too long to kill things, and on occasions have even burnt their roast while waiting (may or may not be totally true), I think boosting Cloudsplitter would go a long way to improving this situation.

Or let the occ DD extend to your pet which would speed up solo's, and be a boon to BST's in party situations. It's not as if this would break the game, or make BST one of the top 5 DD's.

[Byrth]

Boosting a WS that <5% of BSTs have (that you can only get while not using PDT axes) is not going to fix the problem people are complaining about with BST.

[blowfin]

Boosting a WS that <5% of BSTs have (that you can only get while not using PDT axes) is not going to fix the problem people are complaining about with BST.

Dual PDT axes are gimp in most situations as of the update. So they`ve already helped us improve kill speed. Boosting Cloudsplitter would just go one step further.

[Byrth]

Boosting Cloudsplitter wouldn't affect most Beastmasters, because most Beastmasters will never have access to the weaponskill.

Imagine if they put Blood Pact Delay -15 (allowed to pass the cap) on Nirvana. It wouldn't be a "fix" for summoner.

[blowfin]

Boosting Cloudsplitter wouldn't affect most Beastmasters, because most Beastmasters will never have access to the weaponskill.

Boosting Cloudsplitter would boost Cloudsplitter.

Did you take my post 100% seriously before? That might be our problem.

[Byrth]

Yeah, I did. I thought you were proposing a Cloudsplitter boost to be the solution to BST's DD woes. After some of the shit I've read on this forum, it wouldn't exactly be out of line.

I approve of boosting Cloudsplitter by a factor of 2-3.

[blowfin]

Yeah, I did. I thought you were proposing a Cloudsplitter boost to be the solution to BST's DD woes. After some of the shit I've read on this forum, it wouldn't exactly be out of line.

I thought the bit about burning the roast would have been a sure tip off.

[blowfin]

I approve of boosting Cloudsplitter by a factor of 2-3.

I don't think it even needs that much, it's quite strong outside Abyss and it makes /RDM a very good sub choice with fencer and the MAB bonus. Somewhere between a 25% and 50% buff would probably do the trick while not overpowering.

Apart from brew I don't think it's realistic to expect it to perform very well in Abyss anyway. Even less realistic after the increases for crits. I've fairly casually gained an extra 5% crit. damage boost from Augments too - further pushing Rampage ahead.

Remember the buff for Bora Axe SE? Little bit of that for a WS that actually has potential please.

[Keinn]

I'd personally like to see Cloudsplitter do around 1600 damage with 100TP and a good WS set, without atmas. (perhaps 2200-2600ish damage with 300TP) This would put it at least somewhere in the ballpark of rampage, making it worth using for aftermath.

Perhaps then, with atmas, it could be boosted to almost compete with other Empyrean weaponskills inside abyssea.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

A friend recently finished his 85 and he dose 1k-2800 outside of abyssea on bst without any MAB gear.

[Keinn]

A friend recently finished his 85 and he dose 1k-2800 outside of abyssea on bst without any MAB gear.

1k w/o MAB gear with 300 TP, sure. But 2800? I don't believe it.
Under what conditions is your friend getting those kind of numbers?

[blowfin]

A friend recently finished his 85 and he dose 1k-2800 outside of abyssea on bst without any MAB gear.

Pro tip: He's probably lying to a certain extent.

With a near full build and /RDM my base damage is around the 1100-1200 mark with 100TP on targets that don`t have any built in resistance. Extrapolating from that figure I`d expect to see around 1500 with 200 TP and towards 1800 with 300TP.

So let`s see, thats including around +45 MAB.

Even with double thunder weather + day bonus you`re not going to get too far above 2k.The only way I can see figures getting towards 3k is if you`re doing tests on mobs like Qutrub.

Regardless, tell us his build and we`ll give you some results:rolleyes:

[Keinn]

Just to make sure there wasn't some kind of ninja fix on this, I went out and tested it. Same weak cloudsplitter.
Target: Valkurm Dunes, Beach Pugils
Water Day, no weather, waxing gibbous Moon, Ninja Sub

@100TP
849 (using WS Gear: STR+80, MND+42, MAB+12-24 depending on moon, was waxing gibbous)
567 (using TP Gear: STR+41, MND+7, MAB+0)

@300TP
1299 (using WS Gear: STR+80, MND+42, MAB+12-24 depending on moon, was waxing gibbous)
1008 (using TP Gear: STR+41, MND+7, MAB+0)

[Areola]

Just wondering if anyone has found a useful purpose for Cloudsplitter yet. Ive been messing with this WS for a while now and all i can come up with is "Rampage or GTFO"(unless under rare/uncommon circumstances)

[Byrth]

Quasi-relevant, I tested and updated Atma of the Lion:
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Atma_of_the_Lion

You can see the testing on the discussion page.

[Zaknafein]

Just wondering if anyone has found a useful purpose for Cloudsplitter yet. Ive been messing with this WS for a while now and all i can come up with is "Rampage or GTFO"(unless under rare/uncommon circumstances)

It's a complete let down, and a joke compared to any decent empy WS. Bst and war already had other tools to get amber with. Outside abyssea it's awful, and lags far behind rampage. Aside from being one of the better options for base damage @level 90 it's nothing more than a brew toy (which bst already had covered with Primal Rend). If it isn't tinkered with to at least bring it up to rampage damage it's not even remotely worth investing the effort into.

[Keinn]

Extras

* Additional Planned Adjustments
o Weapon skill refinements
Here's hoping.

[Zaknafein]

/em crosses fingers

[Areola]

there are some other empy WS's that could use some love too. but this directly affects me so i want CS beefed up first ^^

[Zaknafein]

there are some other empy WS's that could use some love too. but this directly affects me so i want CS beefed up first ^^

Out of the other empy WS in need of adjustment CS is the weakest outside of a brew that I know of.

[Ophannus]

Why is SE giving Axe so many elemental WS lately? Bora Axe, Cloudsplitter, Primal Rend.

[Byrth]

Why is SE giving Axe so many elemental WS lately? Bora Axe, Cloudsplitter, Primal Rend.

Bora Axe isn't actually elemental, and Primal Rend was given to BST something like half a decade ago. Apart from that, I don't know.

[Stabbytabby]

Out of the other empy WS in need of adjustment CS is the weakest outside of a brew that I know of.

I have to agree, maybe it's the lack of a dINT in the damage formula, but, this ws is quite the letdown compared to the way other ws take off huge chunks of HP. WAR (Sanguine) and BST (Primal) both already have comparable elemental dmg ws and Rampage beats them all anyway for making things dead.

This ws really needs help. If not more dmg than some kind of stun effect and additional effect strong paralyze, like Mind Blast. Something to justify its use over Rampage.

[Xilk]

some ideas that would differentiate it:

An AoE effect
Make the aftermath affect pets as well.
Give a useful additional effect (least desirable)

[Septimus]

some ideas that would differentiate it:

An AoE effect
Make the aftermath affect pets as well.
Give a useful additional effect (least desirable)

Make the damage physical and on-par with the other Empyrean weapons would help. A lot.

[Zaknafein]

Make the damage physical and on-par with the other Empyrean weapons would help. A lot.

I would not be in favor of changing it to a physical WS. Being able to burn down 3 Rani's, and drop Cuijatender to 30% with one brew is what the WS currently does right. It is just in need of some sort of tweak to make it compete with Rampage in normal melee situations. Some sort of decent added effect like paralyze, blind, amnesia etc. Combine that with a boost to the Ftp so that the damage is at least in the neighborhood of low end rampages with a good WS set. Then it would allow us the benefit of the aftermath. As it stands now there is no reason to even think about using it repeatedly in a normal melee situation.

[Areola]

I think it should be made to do far more damage then rampage while remaining an elemental ws. This is an empyrean ws on a DD weapon were talking about here. You don't see sam's with a masamune using gekko for dding you don't see war's still using raging rush with a yukon. Why the hell am i still stuck with rampage? I have an empyrean weapon for god sake.

also i think all pet job related empyrean weapons should get the aftermath for pets. ie H2H polearm and staff

[Zaknafein]

While it would be fantastic for CS to do equal or more damage than rampage I doubt we will see that sort of adjustment for 2 reasons.

A) A huge boost to the Ftp required to make it do that much would also translate into it doing that much more while under brew conditions. Granted at the moment the best I've pulled off was a high of close to 30k, and an average of 18-21k in brew situations. That still puts us well behind wildfire which can almost one shot rani or shinryu.

B) I don't think it is realistic to expect such a large boost to the WS because the Beastmaster themselves are only 1/2 of the damage output in the equation. Our pets are putting out a significant amount also. In this day, and age skilled Bst are far more melee/DD oriented in terms of gear/playstyles. That allows us to close the gap with the #'s our pets are putting out.

So the tweak that needs to be made has to reflect Master, and pet combined. We only need enough of a boost so that we can at least measure up to an average DD's output when Bst/pet's #'s are combined. Hopefully we'll see a boost to the damage on CS to make it close to what we can do with rampage. That way we can utilize it enough to benefit from the aftermath, and make our available skillchain options more versatile. That boost, and some other added effect would be fantastic, and still preserve game balance.

[Gotterdammerung]

While it would be fantastic for CS to do equal or more damage than rampage I doubt we will see that sort of adjustment for 2 reasons.

A) A huge boost to the Ftp required to make it do that much would also translate into it doing that much more while under brew conditions. Granted at the moment the best I've pulled off was a high of close to 30k, and an average of 18-21k in brew situations. That still puts us well behind wildfire which can almost one shot rani or shinryu.

B) I don't think it is realistic to expect such a large boost to the WS because the Beastmaster themselves are only 1/2 of the damage output in the equation. Our pets are putting out a significant amount also. In this day, and age skilled Bst are far more melee/DD oriented in terms of gear/playstyles. That allows us to close the gap with the #'s our pets are putting out.

So the tweak that needs to be made has to reflect Master, and pet combined. We only need enough of a boost so that we can at least measure up to an average DD's output when Bst/pet's #'s are combined. Hopefully we'll see a boost to the damage on CS to make it close to what we can do with rampage. That way we can utilize it enough to benefit from the aftermath, and make our available skillchain options more versatile. That boost, and some other added effect would be fantastic, and still preserve game balance.

I disagree.

Also i don't know why you are getting low cloudsplitter numbers while brewed. I manage to stay on par with wildfire during all my brews.

Everyother emp WS is very strong without brew. Most of them can be pushed to the 4-8k range in damage in abyssea. Theres no good reason for cloudsplitter to be so aweful without brew. Cloudsplitter tops out in the 3k and change range with 100% fulll support via gear and atmas and temp items, and you have to completely gimp your regular damage as well as the pets damage to reach those numbers. It makes the Weapon skill worthless for everything except brewing.

[Zaknafein]

I disagree.

Also i don't know why you are getting low cloudsplitter numbers while brewed. I manage to stay on par with wildfire during all my brews.

Everyother emp WS is very strong without brew. Most of them can be pushed to the 4-8k range in damage in abyssea. Theres no good reason for cloudsplitter to be so aweful without brew. Cloudsplitter tops out in the 3k and change range with 100% fulll support via gear and atmas and temp items, and you have to completely gimp your regular damage as well as the pets damage to reach those numbers. It makes the Weapon skill worthless for everything except brewing.

Yeah your preaching to the choir with your thoughts on non brew Cloudsplitters. At the moment the WS is garbage w/o a brew. My point was I would be amazed if it gets tweaked enough so we can do 4-8k without sacrificing the correct DD atmas. I would be ecstatic. I'm just not holding my breath.

In regards to your results with cloudsplitter under brew mode what sort of #'s are you putting out per WS, and what Atmas are you using, target monster etc.

[Gotterdammerung]

I do around 35-40k on rani enuf to 2 shot it.

64k on alfard

those are the only big NMs ive brewed on bst since getting it.

Ive brewed some on war but that was just because no one else was available and i didnt feel like changing. I don't really count war brew numbers because they are inferior.

To get high dmg i use the +2 ferine body wich allows killer efects to add some % dmg. If i dont naturally have the killer trait (for instance vs alfard a dragon) i sub the appropriate sub to get it (drg in this case).

If i have the natural killer trait i use the proper pet and killer instinct. If i dont i use the proper circle ability (ancient circle in this case).

if i have dual wield i use a renauds axe +2 tp bonus +100 offhand.

Basically from their its all killer + gear and MAB bonus gear plus elemental belt/gorget.

[Zaknafein]

Oooh! Sexy information. I'll have to play around with the subs a bit. I have most of the gear. Got the MAB, KI effects stuff, and belt/gorget. Wasn't aware of the boost to damage ratio of the KI effects was that significant. Still need to make the tp bonus axe. Have to occ attks 2-4 done so far.

Been using Ultimate, Baying Moon to cap MaB. Then Lion for the third. Was thinking of using the giant tp bonus one Sundering slash or w/e the name is. Not sure which would net better results.

Excellent info Sir! I appreciate it ^^

[Gotterdammerung]

Lion blinding horn SMiting blow is ur best result combination.

[Areola]

I've said before that i dont what to spend 200k cruor to justify this ws. Wildfire doesn't need a brew to do damage and its still great outside of abyssea as well. Farsha is a war/bst weapon so the lackluster damage ends up hurting two jobs...kinda. War can make a yukon but Bst is stuck with it.

[Zaknafein]

Sweet I'll give those, and the Killer Effects set up a go when my group goes to do our Alfard's for my +2 body

[Septimus]

Another thing about it being a brew-only weapon skill, Abyssea isn't the focus of the game anymore. Any new items to upgrade Empyrean weapons will most likely come from Voidwatch where Cloudsplitter is going to be terrible damage because of a lack of brew, or (less likely) from Walk of Echoes where Cloudsplitter is going to be terrible damage because of a lack of brew. And eventually they are going to add new content where Cloudsplitter is going to be terrible damage because of a lack of brew.

It's lovely that it is an awesome weapon skill for brewing, but what about the other 99.9999999% of the time we are playing the game?

[Alderin]

Considered using a TP bonus atma? I am crappy at the formulas etc etc. Also don't have an empy axe so havnt tested. However assuming fTP is the following:

100%TP = 3.75
200%TP = 5.0
300%TP = 6

is it just me that sees a decent boost from the 100-200% fTP?

Keep your normal DD atmas (RR / VV or Apoc or whatever) and try Smiting Blow.

Stack that with all of your MAB & mods etc macro'd in, and you should be hitting some more respectable numbers surely?

At least something decent enough to warrant the use of activating the aftermath.

The rest of the guys are right though. Can't really compare a magical WS to compare to a crit-hit WS in abyssea. There are actually a lot less Empyrean WS's that dont suck then you may think.

Polearm for example is quite average. Most DRG's with Empy's that I know stick to Drakesbane. Rudra's Storm isn't the most breathtaking weapon skill either, unless you force it to crit. The reason it looks bad is there are a few amazing weapons that are borderline overpowered. The rest are mediocre.

[Keinn]

I have a pretty decent cloudsplitter set if I do say so myself. I'm only missing twilight body(using osode instead) and MAB rings(using STR+7 MND+5). Atmas aside, my BST/NIN cloudsplitter usually hovers around 900 in abyssea @100TP (Give or take a hundred).

-TP bonus atma: can boost damage up from 900 to 1200.
-Ultimate: boosts it a little better from 900 to 1350.
-Lion: boosts it comparably to TP bonus from 900 to 1170 + adds triple attack and a damage taken reduction.

I can get cloudsplitter up to around 1600 going RR + Ultimate + Lion
I 2000-3200 regularly with rampage in abyssea with RR+VV alone. Adding in Sang.Scythe, I've had rampage break 4000 on more than one occasion.

I have, though, considered making the TP bonus+100 axe now that I know it can be used in the off hand. With that axe, using RR/Ultimate/Lion, I assume I can get Cloudsplitter to a consistant 2100 damage at 100 TP. Thats still not gonna beat rampage, but its nice to be able to get it that much closer..

Still, others in my group went H2H, Sword, Katana, Bow, Etc. I envy their 4k CDCs, 5k Blade:Hi's, 7k Victory Smites, and 9k Jishnu's Radiances. Picked axe cause I love BST. It was a trap XD

[Areola]

Still, others in my group went H2H, Sword, Katana, Bow, Etc. I envy their 4k CDCs, 5k Blade:Hi's, 7k Victory Smites, and 9k Jishnu's Radiances. Picked axe cause I love BST. It was a trap XD

I fell for it too T_T. But in the bright side I'm almost done with my bow now.

[Stabbytabby]

It's lovely that it is an awesome weapon skill for brewing, but what about the other 99.9999999% of the time we are playing the game?

This. I shouldn't still be using Rampage 97% of the time. With other ws like CDC, Ukko, etc. I don't see many Emp holders still using a L55 weaponskill and yet here I am with my cool new weapon using the same macro I made in 2005.

Also, since it's a magic ws it's unaffected by the base dmg of the weapon so it'll need a substantial fix to scale properly all the way to 99 as the physical dmg Emps get more base dmg added to them. CSplitter will be even less impressive compared to ws like Sanguine as CSplitter has no dINT/dCHR bit in the formula so you can't even stack a stat to up the dmg.

Another strike against CSplitter as it stands is that while jobs like war and thf will get new traits and gear that boost crits, double and triple attack, etc. the best bst can look forward to minor stat increases as the sole boost to csplitter via the mod. (I assume this is primarily a bst ws as war gets Ukko's and seems unlikely to dual axe much anymore. I have war90 and rarely do.)

How about borrowing from the Mythics and having the aftermath work on my pet as well? Then it's a conditional boost to the ws, if solo, use Rampage, if you have a pet out, Csplitter.

Short version: I shouldn't wistfully be looking at every other Emp ws and regretting my choice, not on an Emp used by 2 different DD jobs. Fixing it and keeping it balanced will not be easy, but, a fix is badly needed. If it makes it easier to balance for SE, that fix should be tilted towards bst as it's the only Emp bst gets.

[Gotterdammerung]

The only problem i have with the whole "let pets have aftermath" idea

Aftermath is kinda sucky. It doesn't proc enough to justify itself. And half the time the duration is wasted changing from mob to mob.

Don't get me wrong, Pets getting aftermath would be cool. But if thats the only change they made to cloudsplitter it would still suck.

It needs a serious damage boost to make it viable. It should easily be twice as strong as other normal Magic WS's

Side Note:
Personally i think aftermath should be based on a swing counter not a duration. I.E. 100% tp = 10 swings with a chance to deal double dmg ect ect. And the counter should overwrite (not stack) Ex. I have 3 swings left but i use WS at 100% and now im back at 10 swing counters (insted of still being at 3 or stacking to 13).

[Stabbytabby]

The only problem i have with the whole "let pets have aftermath" idea

Aftermath is kinda sucky. It doesn't proc enough to justify itself. And half the time the duration is wasted changing from mob to mob.

Don't get me wrong, Pets getting aftermath would be cool. But if thats the only change they made to cloudsplitter it would still suck.

It needs a serious damage boost to make it viable. It should easily be twice as strong as other normal Magic WS's
.


I may have been unclear so let me make it easier to read should a Dev skim this before morning coffee/tea. ;)

CLOUSPLITTER'S DAMAGE IS MUCH TOO WEAK COMPARED TO OTHER EMPYREAL WS.

I think Farsha needs a serious boost to compete with the other Empyreals. An increase in the CS base damage and perhaps some kind of additional effect.

It needs a substantial boost to its damage to even compete with a old ws like Rampage let alone other Empyreal ws. That said, I fear SE is unlikely to raise the damage significantly as I'm sure it was originally made so low for some odd balance issue the same way SE 'balances' many pet job things. (Looking at you, Drum Magazine and the 'no Samba for pets' emergency update.) If I'm wrong and the low damage is an oversight and it's increased to be where I'd normally use it over Rampage that'd be fine.

However, as I suspect the 'elemental ws fix' will be used as the underwhelming silver bullet that 'fixes' my Farsha, copying the aftermath to the pet as an additional effect as well seems reasonable as the Mythic already does this. It also comes with a built in balance factor by not jacking up the already extremely powerful Warrior due to his lack of pets and by the Beastmaster needing a live pet to benefit.

(This post made before my own coffee, so please be kind. ^^)

SIDE REPLY: You raise a good point about the weakness of aftermath, but, I was thinking more of a fix for this weaponskill than an overhaul for all Emps. While your idea has merit it wouldn't change the relative power between the ws, which is what I'm more concerned with. Wildfire, Ukko, etc. hardly need more DD power. This seems more like it needs its own topic so I'll leave it here.

[Septimus]

Not to sound too much like a Negative-Nancy or a Debbie-Downer, but I think the Farasha and Cloudsplitter are so weak compared to other Empyrean Weapons to try to crush the spirit of the few remaining dual-wielding Warriors. Beastmasters are just collateral damage in Square's war against /NIN.

[Keinn]

ROFL Septimus

[Septimus]

ROFL Septimus

Come on, tell me that I am wrong. :P

[Calamity]

Not to sound too much like a Negative-Nancy or a Debbie-Downer, but I think the Farasha and Cloudsplitter are so weak compared to other Empyrean Weapons to try to crush the spirit of the few remaining dual-wielding Warriors. Beastmasters are just collateral damage in Square's war against /NIN.

Well, the one problem I see with this theory is how damn much SE seems to want war to single wield lately. I mean out of nowhere they decided to give war shield defense bonus, shield mastery, and the highest level of fencer out of any job that can use it. I'm not saying that a powerful 1 handed axe WS would have made this scenario any more likely, but it woulda been the next logical step in their chosen direction :p

[Byrth]

Well, the one problem I see with this theory is how damn much SE seems to want war to single wield lately. I mean out of nowhere they decided to give war shield defense bonus, shield mastery, and the highest level of fencer out of any job that can use it. I'm not saying that a powerful 1 handed axe WS would have made this scenario any more likely, but it woulda been the next logical step in their chosen direction :p

I agree that this is what it looks like they're trying to do, but it shows a level of game mechanics confusion that's rivaled by only the most impressively ignorant players. What do they think we're going to do, single wield WAR/MNK with Counterstance and a shield?

[Calamity]

I agree that this is what it looks like they're trying to do, but it shows a level of game mechanics confusion that's rivaled by only the most impressively ignorant players. What do they think we're going to do, single wield WAR/MNK with Counterstance and a shield?

Dood! Don't forget boost!

[Byrth]

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSST~~~!!!!!!!!!!

Srsly though, spam it with Provoke for maximum haet.

[Septimus]

Woo hoo! Warriors are tanks again! And it isn't really a boost macro unless there is a DBZ reference in say or with an emote.

But seriously, I wouldn't take adding job traits as an indicator of what they want the job to do. They gave RDMs Shield Mastery with our fantastic F shield skill, they gave Bards Fencer, and they gave WHMs Shield Defense Bonus for our awesome D shield skill. For real, I am not making this up.

[Keinn]

Played around on test server to see if a fix was on the way.. not yet at least. Cloudsplitter is still unchanged.

@100tp in WS set (STR+90, MND+42, MAB+12-24):
Outside Abyssea
lv.90 without TP bonus axe: 800+/-
lv.90 with TP bonus axe: 1000+/-
lv.95 without TP bonus axe: 900+/-
lv.95 with TP bonus axe: 1100+/-

Inside Abyssea (RR, Lion, Ultimate atmas)
lv.90 without TP bonus axe: 1600+/-
lv.90 with TP bonus axe: 2200+/-
lv.95 without TP bonus axe: 1800+/-
lv.95 with TP bonus axe: 2500+/-

[Areola]

Played around on test server to see if a fix was on the way.. not yet at least. Cloudsplitter is still unchanged.

@100tp in WS set (STR+90, MND+42, MAB+12-24):
Outside Abyssea
lv.90 without TP bonus axe: 800+/-
lv.90 with TP bonus axe: 1000+/-
lv.95 without TP bonus axe: 900+/-
lv.95 with TP bonus axe: 1100+/-

Inside Abyssea (RR, Lion, Ultimate atmas)
lv.90 without TP bonus axe: 1600+/-
lv.90 with TP bonus axe: 2200+/-
lv.95 without TP bonus axe: 1800+/-
lv.95 with TP bonus axe: 2500+/-

Thanks for testing that out for us. Even though it wasn't good news T_T.
I look forward to being disappointed by what SE calls balanced in the future <_<.

[Calamity]

Thanks for testing that out for us. Even though it wasn't good news T_T.
I look forward to being disappointed by what SE calls balanced in the future <_<.

Balance is a lie. It can be considered as the bigfoot or loch ness monster of FFXI. A mythological creature that people search for their entire lives, but will die without seeing.

[Gotterdammerung]

I SEEN IT!

*shows a blurry photo*

[Calamity]

*looks closely* That's clearly a picture of a moogle in a taco costume. I don't even...

[Gotterdammerung]

Yah.... but he is playing a gameboy and balancing on a log... so that's game balance.

[Keinn]

I just found a Dev reply on a japanese "Cloudsplitter's damage is terrible" thread.

こんにちは。

実機のテスト環境でアレコレと設定を変更しつつ、実際にダメージ比較を見せてもらいながら、担当者と話をしてきました。

* 与ダメージ量について
アビセアエリアで「ランページ」と「クラウドスプリッタ」の与ダメージ量を比較する場合には、それぞれのWSに適した装備品とアートマをセットして比較してみてください。またアビセアエリア外で比較する場合、それぞれのWSに適した装備品で比較してみてください。

いずれの場合においてもランページを上回る与ダメージ量を上回る結果となりました。
（ちなみにアビセアエリアで、ランページ：2,000～3,000程度、クラウドスプリッタ：4,000程度です。）

特に格上の敵（テスト環境では自分よりも5レベル高い敵を対象としました。）と戦った場合の安定感はなかなかのものです。


* プライマルレンドとの比較について
クラウドスプリッタの魔法命中率は非常に高く、プライマルレンドの3倍以上の値が設定されています。
またステータスによるダメージボーナスも、プライマルレンドよりも上に設定されています。

ですので魔法命中を気にせず、魔法攻撃力アップやステータスアップに装備枠を使える分、プライマルレンドよりも優れているWSだと言えますし、実際の与ダメージ量も上回ります。


* 備考
巷で系統係数（？）と呼ばれているような値で計算してみたところ、与ダメージ量が若干少なくなりました。



ということで、この結果には僕もびっくりでした。結構どころか、かなり強いです。
魔法防御ダウンのペットや魔法攻撃力アップの装備品が欲しくなりましたっ！（ﾁﾗｯﾁﾗｯ

My Japanese is only soso, so there may be some translation errors (and a contradiction), but here's what it says to the best of my understanding :
_______________________

Hello!
We created a test environment using existing practical equipment in order to test damage, so that we could discuss it with who is in charge.

Amount of damage:
In abyssea area, test an equal number of Rampages and Cloudsplitters with appropriate equipment and atmas for comparison. After that, try it in outside abyssea.

In each case, Rampage did more damage. (By the way, in abyssea Ramage did 2000-3000, Cloudsplitter did 4000 damage)
Hence the contradiction.. Maybe I mistranslate the rampage did more damage part?

Especially in the case of stronger enemies (5 levels or more above) they felt very balanced.

Comparison to Primal Rend:
Cloudsplitter's magic damage bonus calculation is very high, at least 3 times higher than Primal Rend. Also, Primal Rend does not get the damage bonus status.

Because these are both 1 hit magic damage WS, we use similar magic attack enhancing equipment for both. However, we can say that Cloudsplitter in comparison to Primal Rend is superior at damage.

Note:
When used with more publicly accepted factors, the damage is decreased.

To my surprise, the results of the test are that this is a great strong WS. I would like to see more magic attack equipment or pets who can lower magic defense added to suppliement this. (Chiracchira~

This was followed by another 8 pages of Japanese people agreeing / disagreeing with them. It sounds like they are playing the "What are you talking about, its great as it is!" card, but I'm still hoping with more feedback SE will eventually consider giving this WS a much needed boost.
(The extra MAB gear and M.Defense down pet moves would be a nice addition though.)

[SpankWustler]

I don't see how such results are possible. I can only assume they drank all the white-out in the SE office building before the testing, used 300 TP for all weapon skills involved rather than 100, and did not account for magic damage atma doing nothing for Beastmaster's normal melee hits.

[Zaknafein]

The only way to produce those #'s in normal melee situations is to use Lion, Blinding horn, etc etc which gimps the hell out of your pet damage.....

[Keinn]

I agree, the numbers seem unrealistic. All i can think of is that they used pandemonium warden's atma/ultimate/lion, an ascetics drink, 300 TP, and did it on WAR with Restraint up against a thunder weak mob. That might put it in the 4k range..

[Areola]

I agree, the numbers seem unrealistic. All i can think of is that they used pandemonium warden's atma/ultimate/lion, an ascetics drink, 300 TP, and did it on WAR with Restraint up against a thunder weak mob. That might put it in the 4k range..

You forgot /rdm with a blm and cor in the party /w an 11 in wizards roll vs qutrubs *cough*and a brew*cough*

Anyway using the magical power of google translate i have come to the conclusion that the entire post is bull s**t. There was no mention of gear, mods, target monsters. TP%, or atmas. It looked to me like "here are some fake looking numbers. iz good ws. k thxn bye".
2-3k rampages arnt the best a bst can average, and a war would surpass even that.

[Calamity]

Ya'll remember that first cloudsplitter with your brand spanking new Farsha, and thinking "No, no wait, that's not right, I must be using the wrong gear" And then you pimp out your ws build, try again, and realize you're gonna be using rampage for the rest of your days?

[Louispv]

You don't need to research it. It said primal rend was weaker than cloudsplitter. That's a blatant lie, primal rend is always stronger, in melee gear, in appropriate WS gear, with any appropriate atma set up. So no more research is necessary. I certainly hope it's a fake, cause otherwise the Devs must be playing a different version of the game than us.

[Keinn]

It isnt fake, the original thread can be found here. (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/4497-%E7%8D%A3%E4%BD%BF%E3%81%84%E3%81%AE%E3%82%A8%E3%83%B3%E3%83%94%E3%83%AA%E3%82%A2%E3%83%B3%E6%AD%A6%E5%99%A8%E3%83%95%E3%82%A1%E3%83%AB%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A3%E3%81%AE%E3%82%AF%E3%83%A9%E3%82%A6%E3%83%80%E3%82%B9%E3%83%97%E3%83%AA%E3%83%83%E3%82%BF%E3%81%AE%E3%83%80%E3%83%A1%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E3%81%AB%E3%81%A4%E3%81%84%E3%81%A6/page2?highlight=%E3%82%AF%E3%83%A9%E3%82%A6%E3%83%80%E3%82%B9%E3%83%97%E3%83%AA%E3%83%83%E3%82%BF)

The dev reply is on the 2nd page, 6th post from the top.

There is a chance that I mistranslated it, though. My Japanese skill is very limited, and all derives from playing video games. If anyone is fluent in Japanese that can more accurately translate it, please do.

[SpankWustler]

Well then, there's always the chance it just reads "We tested it on a cloud! It was split perfectly in two! We used each half as a pillow, one for the upper body and one for the lower body!"

I remain hopeful!

[Anucris]

the flaw here is that while some wpns already had good ws's, they got crappier ones to aftermath with. while some who didnt have as good of ws's got great ones to aftermath with. the real fail here is the aftermath inbalance. while some weapons got good ws's to make them on par with other jobs, it seems SE didnt understand that by giving those ws's aftermath it put them above the ones that got crappier ws's to aftermath with.

lol think that makes sense

[Louispv]

It isnt fake, the original thread can be found here.

The dev reply is on the 2nd page, 6th post from the top.

There is a chance that I mistranslated it, though. My Japanese skill is very limited, and all derives from playing video games. If anyone is fluent in Japanese that can more accurately translate it, please do.

What the hell game are they playing then? Just went outside jeuno and did each ws on the same cockatrice. 620~Cloudsplitter and 740~primal rend with the same gear for both WS's. (and since the farsha adds 7 STR and 7 MND, but no CHR, that's already giving an unfair advantage to cloudsplitter.)

In what game is cloudsplitter stronger? And in what game is it even possible to do a 4k cloudsplitter. Mine does 2k~ with full Matt gear, RDM sub, Lion/Blinding Horn/ baying moon, and an ascetics. Even if I had Lion/ultimate/Hell's Guardian and an 11 wizard roll with a BLM in the party, that's only 56% more damage, or 3.2k damage. 4k is not even possible.


the flaw here is that while some wpns already had good ws's, they got crappier ones to aftermath with. while some who didnt have as good of ws's got great ones to aftermath with. the real fail here is the aftermath inbalance. while some weapons got good ws's to make them on par with other jobs, it seems SE didnt understand that by giving those ws's aftermath it put them above the ones that got crappier ws's to aftermath with.

lol think that makes sense
No, even if the empyrian ws is inferior to previous weaponskills, it is always the best choice for every weapon when adding the aftermath, since the damage is usually only 1 or 2 aftermath triggers behind the best WS. Victory Smite with a verethegna is better than stringing pummel, even though stringing pummel does a little bit more damage, for example.

Every weapon that is, except farsha.

[Areola]

This is bad... I've been reading that post with google translate. Its crazy that they think the general population is stupid enough to buy that crap. Mocchi is clearly lieing about those test results(maybe not mocchi personally if hes just relaying the message), and everyone knows it. It looks clear to me that with only one DEV response followed by silence that CS will be GARBAGE FOREVER.

[Stabbytabby]

What the hell game are they playing then? Just went outside jeuno and did each ws on the same cockatrice. 620~Cloudsplitter and 740~primal rend with the same gear for both WS's. (and since the farsha adds 7 STR and 7 MND, but no CHR, that's already giving an unfair advantage to cloudsplitter.)

In what game is cloudsplitter stronger? And in what game is it even possible to do a 4k cloudsplitter. Mine does 2k~ with full Matt gear, RDM sub, Lion/Blinding Horn/ baying moon, and an ascetics. Even if I had Lion/ultimate/Hell's Guardian and an 11 wizard roll with a BLM in the party, that's only 56% more damage, or 3.2k damage. 4k is not even possible.


No, even if the empyrian ws is inferior to previous weaponskills, it is always the best choice for every weapon when adding the aftermath, since the damage is usually only 1 or 2 aftermath triggers behind the best WS. Victory Smite with a verethegna is better than stringing pummel, even though stringing pummel does a little bit more damage, for example.

Every weapon that is, except farsha.

This has been my experience as well. My Farsha is yet another cruel joke played on BST. Gigantically inferior to Rampage inside Abyssea and still subordinate to Rampage and Primal Rend outside. I don't know how SE managed those numbers, but, no matter how they did it the most important thing for the Devs to consider is this:

ABYSSEA IS ENDING, so I don't really care how they managed their alleged 4k CSplitter because outside where the future of 'endgame' is I can't beat a Rampage and am lucky to do half the damage a CDC sword does on a ws.

So Devs, please humor us BSTs (and WARs) and try testing Cloudsplitter outside the goofball universe of Abyssea. Preferably with some kind of actual info on gear/tp/buffs.

As it stands we have good numbers from players in this thread (and my own experience) that makes your assertion that Farsha is not a joke ring hollow. My pretty golden axe can be beaten handily with a Fire path weapon and a L55 weaponskill. Please fix this.

[Louispv]

As it stands we have good numbers from players in this thread (and my own experience) that makes your assertion that Farsha is not a joke ring hollow. My pretty golden axe can be beaten handily with a Fire path weapon and a L55 weaponskill. Please fix this.

Well, no, the massive base damage will make it better than the fire axe for rampage. Of course if you don't use Cloudsplitter, there's no point in getting a farsha...

Got half way through the alfard fangs, and gave up. I've started on Guttler, it's a better axe. Least the double damage proc on that doesn't make me use Onslaught to get it.

[Keinn]

I hate to admit it after how much I've complained, but I finally got Cloudsplitter working the way they claim it to in abyssea without sacrificing Razed Ruins or using 300 TP every time. It took switching to War to get the best results (2400-4000 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v601/kainminter/img_20110910_132942-1.png) @100TP), but its not too terrible on BST either(1900-2500 @100TP).

*Make a TP bonus axe.
*Do the quests and NMs to get all of the cruor buff enhancing KIs
*Optimal atma sets:
--RR/HellsGuardian/Lion for good CS damage, triple attack, PDT, and Zanshin I want to use this set.
--RR/HellsGuardian/Ultimate for highest CS damage, but lost some triple attack/PDT
--RR/Ultimate/Lion for good CS damage, triple attack, and PDT. I currently use this set due to never having fought PW.
*Merit Warcry TP bonus to full, and abuse this whenever using Cloudsplitter @ 100-150 TP
*Use restraint
*I'm sure i don't need to tell most Farsha owners how to gear up. M.Atk > STR/MND, stack as much as you can.
-Here's my humble CloudSplitter set to refer to. (http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/229987)
*Use Ascetics Tonic or Gambir whenever possible.

The damage #s also don't seem to scale down with higher level monsters.(unless elemental resistances get involved.) All of my 4k+ numbers were VS T-VT Crabs, Spiders, and Birds, but Sobek was taking 3000-3800 with 100TP as well. It felt surreal, and might I say good as hell, to be outdamaging the CDCs and Blade: HIs that were being thrown at it.


PS: This is not to say cloudsplitter is fine as it is, per say. I still think it needs to be improved. It still sucks worse than rampage outside abyssea, and takes a lot more tweaking, extra steps, and sacrifices to even be usable in abyssea. I think they should increase it to at least Wildfire's rank in power.

[Louispv]

Your damage is till going to be absolutely terrible with that set up. Your WS damage is now passable, but you've reduced your dot by more than half. You've lost more damage than you've gained, and that's on WAR, a job with far more damage capability than BST. (No warcry or restraint for instance.) And none of that works outside abyssea.

Plus, you should be doing 10k with Ukko's fury, so cloudsplitter can never be useful, neither for BST nor WAR.

[Zaknafein]

Yeah the gimping to your DoT by using those atmas on War is unacceptable. On Bst you'd be gimping yourself, and your pet. The fix to farsha needs to be done so wether we're on war or bst we can put out at least comparable to rampage damage without sacrificing the standardly used atmas for both jobs. Otherwise what the hell was the point of putting this empy into the game for bst. Do all that work so you can do as much or less total damage than rampage with the aftermath included? On War it's even more egregious.

I was under the impression that SE was making the game more user friendly nowadays, and removing the parts that made no sense or needlessly wasted time. The situation as it stands atm with cloudsplitter most definitely falls into those two categories.

[Keinn]

The fix to farsha needs to be done so wether we're on war or bst we can put out at least comparable to rampage damage without sacrificing the standardly used atmas for both jobs.
That would be best, for sure.

[Tabbie]

Being a full time mage for the most part, BST is still my favorite job to play. I built the Farsha for my love of the job, and while I don't regret it, It's *Definitely* extremely underpowered as it stands. While I'm pretty much repeating what everyone else said in this post... I'm really hoping for some English Dev feedback regarding this weapon and where it stands. Outside of Abyssea, Rampage shines over this WS. Inside Abyssea, yes, it is *much* easier to get CS numbers higher than Rampage - But at the cost of just about everything else. When I can pull higher numbers from Rampage at 100 TP (with VV/SS/RR averaging at around 2500 to 3k with an incomplete melee setup) then I can at CS with 300 TP (Missing only Novio / SuneAte), with an emp weapon, there is a problem. Since the melee Atmas allow my pet to deal much more damage, what there is *no point* to focus on a MAB set for Cloudsplitter. It severely gimps our damage overall and I don't think the JP Dev team understands that.

Either that, or they're trolling us and they're gonna fix it next update and we'll be happy!

[Septimus]

Really, this is the test I would like to see them do.

Start with one Warrior who has a Farasha and is geared and atma'd up for Cloudsplitter damage. Check out his total damage (melee and weaponskill) over 100 mobs of the same variety and level.

Get a second Warrior who has a Farasha and is geared and atma'd up for Ramapage damage. Check out his total damage (melee and weaponskill) over 100 mobs of the same variety and level.

Now, let's get a third Warrior who has a Ukonvasara and is geared and atma'd for Ukko's Fury damage. Then try to justify to us why Farasha should be terrible.

[Louispv]

Really, this is the test I would like to see them do.

Start with one Warrior who has a Farasha and is geared and atma'd up for Cloudsplitter damage. Check out his total damage (melee and weaponskill) over 100 mobs of the same variety and level.

Get a second Warrior who has a Farasha and is geared and atma'd up for Ramapage damage. Check out his total damage (melee and weaponskill) over 100 mobs of the same variety and level.

Now, let's get a third Warrior who has a Ukonvasara and is geared and atma'd for Ukko's Fury damage. Then try to justify to us why Farasha should be terrible.

No, they just need to compare cloudsplitter and rampage outside abyssea. You know, where we have no way of making it more powerful? The place where it does half the damage of rampage even with the aftermath?

And this is all ignoring that it's magic damage, so every RDM or WHM monster, every monster with shell, and every NM in the game takes half damage straight off the top, with nothing we can do about it. The whole conceit behind magic damage ws's is that they are better for high defense enemies. But they're not, even on slimes/crabs, rampage still always wins in terms of damage. So what the hell is SE smoking?

[SpankWustler]

So what the hell is SE smoking?

Carbon paper soaked in white-out, because that's what they found in the old stock room. Then they build a fort out of their desks and chairs. Then they vie for position of emperor for a bit, shifting rule of this strange new world of their own construction through several hands. By the time a new ruler has been justly and fairly crowned, it's five or six, so they go home.

The next morning, they tidy things up a bit and test Cloudsplitter in ways that make statistics feel dirty and ashamed. I get that "it can do the same damage", but it's also a fact that melee damage is made much worse through factors that make Cloudsplitter worthwhile to use.

Cloudsplitter is not even on par with Wildfire. Not even on paper.

An empyrean weapon-skill should be an improvement, not tantamount to ripping off one arm so as to wield it as a club with the other.

[Chimerawizard]

I did not find a post with Brew dmg. Is that comparable to wildfire at least?

[Byrth]

Cloudsplitter's brew damage is quite nice, but it might not be quite as good as Wildfire. Cloudsplitter has an uncapped dSTAT term, but Wildfire has an uncapped and doubled dSTAT term.

[Areola]

I did not find a post with Brew dmg. Is that comparable to wildfire at least?
That's a good question and I wish I could give you hard facts and numbers. But I cant. If i'm not mistaken Cor with Wildfire and brew is top dog(unless the mob is immune or resistant to fire). But its not like anything unlucky enough to get brewed by one of those WS's is making it back home.

[Chimerawizard]

I am sorry, right after I posted I realize my phone sucks and there are 10 more pages I hadn't read.

[Stabbytabby]

I think it's time to ignore how well CS does in Abyssea/Brew situations and concentrate more on the worthlessness of it outside where we have no atma or inflated stats. Aside from odd targets like elementals, it's just depressing to use.

[Areola]

I think it's time to ignore how well CS does in Abyssea/Brew situations and concentrate more on the worthlessness of it outside where we have no atma or inflated stats. Aside from odd targets like elementals, it's just depressing to use.

Thats what this thread is about. But the Dev's have been super ignoring it. They could at least humor us with some kind of reply. Everyday I sign on to the forum's hoping to see a crown next to the topic containing some good news. But everyday I am disappoint <_<.

[Zaknafein]

Yeah there has been replies to this situation on the Japanese forums I believe. Please Camate or anyone out there throw us a bone :)

[Xilk]

As I understand, under brew situations, wildfire is getting up around 63k damage
Cloudsplitter can get up around 45k

but, as has been stated, it really needs a better comparison of non-brewed situations. its quite disappointing as it is.
It would be worth is w/ current damge if it were AoE.
It would be worth it if Aftermath included pets for bsts
it would be worth it if it had some pet bonus for bsts

Otherwise it needs a bit of an upgrade.. even if the secondary stat mods, or tp mod, or just the base was a bit higher.. 15~20% ?

but the animation looks fantastic!!

[Areola]

I was leveling up samurai the other day and a thought hit me. What if cloudsplitter was similar to Tachi: Jinpu? Jinpu deals both psychical and elemental damage and can pull off some decent numbers w/o crippling your damage output during the tp phase. I'm guessing this would require it to become a two hit attack though.

[Louispv]

Meh, I gave up. I'm 1/10 of the way to a guttler, screw this worthless weapon.

[Areola]

Meh, I gave up. I'm 1/10 of the way to a guttler, screw this worthless weapon.
I wish that i could disagree, but I'm currently using mine as a paperweight. But i don't have any important documents so its been re-downgraded to a chew toy for the new tiger pet <_<

[ReasonB303]

Likea sum booooooooootttttttyyyyyyyy. I don't understand why this post has been ignored by the english speaking team. I can push it pretty high in abyssea, But outside is a whole other story. It is terrible. Maybe they could shed more light on the tests they did. I have even made a Matk bonus axe for this. It's a joke. I only use it to amber and brew.