Please stop limiting good* experience points to campaigns

[OmnysValefor]

You've run some great exp-campaigns that enhance chains or greatly affect base exp/cp and these are great and fun and fantastic and the parties are awesome.

And then the campaign goes away, and what should feel like a great party feels mediocre at best. A lot of people, wanting to maximize their invested playtime, won't CP outside of a campaign so you end up with sub-optimal setups or people not geared enough to be there.

The best parties can clear 250-300 JP an hour during a campaign, so half that during offtime. Lesser parties are doing doing 50-100.

I'm an old player. Like many people here I remember when 3 merits an hour was a great party that you wouldn't leave if you could at all avoid. Remember the days when someone earned a merit point and everyone stopped to say grats/cg?

Then Abyssea came out and obliterated the best bird parties.

It sets a new bar that just feels disgusting without. I'm not at all asking for exp-campaigns to go away. I'm asking you to make them permanent. No longer a campaign, just part of the game.

[Elexia]

The funny thing is, start a new character and level up normally without all of the RoV KIs that boost exp and skill gains and such, that's quite a bigger hit than losing these campaigns for a short time. It does make JP gaining slower but the campaigns definitely seemed more targeted at helping people returning/just joining catch up quicker rather than let us get our gifts faster. I doubt they'd make it permanent though as nice as it would be.

I don't think it really sets a bar perse when they damn near have the campaigns after extremely small breaks in between. I'm an old player as well (since 2001 Japanese beta), I'm pretty sure getting the RoV key items alone already makes things extremely faster in comparison to the good ole days. If we want to completely remove all time investment on gaining JP for example, it's far easier to just ask for the amount needed per JP to go way down rather than super charging the gains. :p

[Pups323]

Cept the rov key items are from exp, the cp bonus you get from rov is rather small when you consider its additive and most people are already have 300% + from RoE quests/cp cape/gifts. So +100% additive ends up being a 25% bonus vs 2x-3x multiplicative of a campaign...it is quite a huge difference.

For exp, rov is pretty much the only way to boost exp gain rate outside of rings, so going from 0 to 300% bonus exp is huge, but going from 300 to 400% cp is not so much.

[OmnysValefor]

@Elexia--

I'm well aware, as I stated in my OP, that exp used to be much much slower and that exp/cp is much slower without the variety of bonuses you can unlock. I know that getting to 75 could take months 1-99 is doable in a day now.

Those 30k/hr merit parties people worshipped? Noone would stay in them now (it's almost unfathomable that we ever did.. 30k seems so.. impossibly low). 100 JP/hr should be a good party. At that rate, it doesn't take that long to Master a job, but once you've tasted 300 JP hr, 100 jp/hr feels like a waste of time, literally. I can get past that feeling, personally, and build cp parties but it's frustrating when either noone replies or the replies you get are by people not remotely geared for Apex enemies.

It's not that I'm asking for things to be faster, just consistent so that there aren't times when it's difficult to build a good party.

[Olor]

@Elexia--

I'm well aware, as I stated in my OP, that exp used to be much much slower and that exp/cp is much slower without the variety of bonuses you can unlock. I know that getting to 75 could take months 1-99 is doable in a day now.

Those 30k/hr merit parties people worshipped? Noone would stay in them now (it's almost unfathomable that we ever did.. 30k seems so.. impossibly low). 100 JP/hr should be a good party. At that rate, it doesn't take that long to Master a job, but once you've tasted 300 JP hr, 100 jp/hr feels like a waste of time, literally. I can get past that feeling, personally, and build cp parties but it's frustrating when either noone replies or the replies you get are by people not remotely geared for Apex enemies.

It's not that I'm asking for things to be faster, just consistent so that there aren't times when it's difficult to build a good party.

LOL... I'd love to get 50 JP an hour currently don't have 100 JP total on all of my jobs and I have spent many many hours to get those... it's crummy that my gear leaves me in the cold for even exp parties... 100 JP/hour is fine... what needs to happen is a massive boost to soloing JPs it's unreasonable currently.

[dasva]

The bar for using experience points is a lot higher now. 20 merits was once something huge that would be a significant amount of the work you put into a job... now it's entry to a single battle or 1/1250th of a vanity item with a goblin. Then there is the silt gain being based on xp. I mean outside of campaigns and such to say earn enough for something small like a single geas fete fight (just to be able to do the fight not any temps you might need/use or transport or the pop requirements) is 100k xp per person. Kind of puts things in perspective. Or on the high end buying a brew would be 1.1 billion xp

[OmnysValefor]

I agree completely.

I don't care what the bar is at. I just know people scoff at groups that get 100 jp in an hour now (and I understand why--I feel the impulse to do the same), but they only do that because they've had so much better.

I think the exp-component of campaigns going away hurts the daily grind. It should be permanent, because they're the one that exposed us to it, and not tampered with in the future.

[peculiar]

What needs to be done is that the less JP you have the bigger bonus you get, the biggest problem right now is it's so incredibly hard to catch up and get into parties.

[Kensagaku]

I can't say I agree. The way you describe it, "you should get a bigger bonus for being behind," is a twofold problem. First off, it's counter-intuitive; who would want to progress if it means that your hard work makes you get less than the person who hasn't put in any effort at all? The way Gifts are, the more work you put into them the easier it gets. Yes, it starts off as a slow slog at first, but as you build up more JPs and gifts, your growth overall is quite noticeable. Going from a 2100 JP job to a 0 JP job, you notice a major difference.

Second, the problem is your description of why it's hard to get into parties. Why is it hard to get into parties? That one's partially on the player base, and partially on SE. They were given a taste of a much faster CP growth, and as a result, lesser isn't good enough so they won't even put the effort forward, thus no parties at all. Why spend hours to get half the reward? With the frequency of these campaigns, it certainly feels like half the reward, instead of the double that it actually is during the campaigns. The other half is likely because of the usual player logic of "if it works, don't deviate from it." People found manaburns, and, at least on Valefor, you won't see a shout for a JP party unless it's manaburning (and it has to be the DD DD GEO SCH BLM BLM paradigm or no go). I've done a few non-manaburns with my LS (something like PLD WHM (both of which can be trust), SCing DD x2~3, support), and while it's slower, it's still a fair deal faster than soloing or not doing anything at all.

Really our solution is one of two options: Keep the campaign on permanently, or turn it off except for rare occasions. The former is obviously preferred to get things done more quickly, but the latter is just as valuable as long as we can find a sort of equilibrium. Either make this bonus permanent so that when the campaign spree ends we don't feel like we went from normal to half, or make it uncommon so that we adapt to the "lesser" rate and the bonus actually feels like a bonus. Again the preference is the former, but don't boost us up so long only to cut us down at the knees. Pick one or the other. >.>

[OmnysValefor]

Have to agree entirely with Ken, being penalized (slower CP) for progression is ridiculous.

On top of that, it's already easier early on to spend CP, and there are more bonuses early on so there is more progression in the early levels of CP.

Take a great CP party. Let's say they're doing 250 jp/hr during a campaign. Off campaign, say same party, same mobs, performing exactly as well and getting half the reward or less. You cannot help the feeling that there is something wrong with the party even though you know it's probably the lack of campaign.

The progression model, imo, is perfect. You can:

* Focus fire important categories, saving jp til you have enough to spend.
* Dump JP equally -- I wouldn't recommend this as some jobs have some categories that is pretty lackluster.
* Dump JP wherever you can afford, getting your bonuses as early as possible. I tend to do this, focus firing whatever jp I have towards goals I want and dumping the rest wherever I can afford.

Early on, you have plenty of occasion to spend 1 or 2 JP, and for some meaningful difference. As you climb up to higher-costing ranks, you're simultaneously earning gifts that make JP easier to obtain.

[Pups323]

Actually a lot of games do it that way.

In everquest, you first 2000-3000 'aa' (jp) go super quick to help you catch up and keep relevant. But everquest has an expansion every year that adds another 1000 new 'aa' (jp) so each year when they increas the bonus range from 3000 to 4000, its because the total is now at 10 or 11k.

I 100% agree there needs to be a larger bonus at 0% then at 1200jp. When you tie things that are 100% needed (acc/atk/spells/ja/set points) to stuff like JP then gate it behind a huge grind where it becomes a catch 22 (need 1200 jp to join apex party, cant get 1200jp without some kinda party), it is silly.

As far as 'plenty of opportunity for spending 1 or 2 jp for meaningful rewards'.....ya that depends on jobs. Some jobs get jack crap for jp but their gifts are amaze balls. Not everyone has blu or bst quality gifts/jp.

Also how do you get into said 250 jp/hour parties without first having 900 or 1200 jp depending on your job? Answer you cant unless you make it, and then you are just a leech riding on others coat tails.

I personally think that jp started as something they didnt want to make too good because then people who demand certain jp levels before inviting....but then they turned around and made gifts so useful that you need 1200 jp to get 1100 acc without food, or you need those extra spell sets, or faster ready timer. The whole system started as an optional system with meh rewards and quickly became the exact opposite of what they designed.

Go check the dev tracker, you will see multiple posts about not wanting jp/gifts to be too good, or not wanting parties to desire certain jp/gifts when building a party. Then they add stuff like Death, or blu set points/set bonus. Its like they say one thing and do another. and if they are going to make JP so necissary then they need to make the base exp higher so that you can get past the grind of jp to start actually doing end game.

[OmnysValefor]

You're talking to a PLD main here, being my only capped JP job. Trust me I know all about lackluster categories and worse gifts. Ignore the "quote" if you're not interested in PLD^^.


Invincible Effect - Increases enmity -- K, but not really that good
Intervene Effect - Increases damage -- On a boss, it does less than a decent ws or a nuke.
Holy Circle Effect - Damage reduction against undead for those affected. I won't say I've never used this, but there aren't that many undead bosses. It's rather lackluster. I'd rather have seen it be damage reduction (not just against undead).
Sentinel Effect - Increases enmity while under the effects of sentinel. I like this one.
Shield Bash effect - Increases damage of shield bash.
Cover Duration - Increases duration of cover. lol. This shouldn't be a category and rather PLD should have gotten a gift that took the positional requirement away from cover.
Divine Emblem Effect - Increases divine damage while under the effect of Divine Emblem.
Sepulcher Duration - (Sepulcher lowers accuracy, evasion, magic accuracy, magic evasion and TP gain for undead.) - This one isn't bad, but pretty situational.
Palisade Effect - Increases chance to block while under the effect of Palisade. Okay, this one's good, but I'd much rather have seen a general increase to blocking.
Enlight Effect - Increases damage (which will be resisted) and accuracy while under the effect of enlight. In my tanking set, I'm at 850~ acc (I swap for ws), So this puts me around 1000 acc with a fresh enlight? This is nothing.

PLD's gifts are just as bad. Our 100 pt is Enlight 2, and our 1200 is Reprisal doing 20% more damage which, aside from being lackluster, might actually be bad. Most of it is bland bonuses to defense/acc. Our 550 is increased potency of Protect. Nowhere to be found is anything to do with shield skill, damage taken (aside from defense). Heck, i'd settle for some potent +ws acc or +ws damage. There's not a single gift that affects enmity, enmity loss, cure potency, cure casting.

Here are some suggestions to how I'd change PLD. Not saying all, but any one or a few of these.

Invincible Effect - Chance to be affected by hate reset reduced by 5% (per tier).
Intervene Effect - Change this to Intervene duration.
Holy Circle Effect - Damage reduction for those affected. regardless of mob type.
Sentinel Effect - Increases enmity while under the effects of sentinel. I like this one.
Shield Bash effect - Gives 25 tp (per level) for shield bash to give 500 TP at 20.
Cover Duration - Remove it, swap for something else and give a gift that removes the positional requirement.
Divine Emblem Effect - Increases divine damage and magic accuracy while under the effect of Divine Emblem.
Sepulcher Duration - Not all categories for any job are stellar. This one is fine.
Palisade Effect - Increases chance to block, independent of palisade.
Enlight Effect - Reduces chance to decay by 5% per level. (Enlight and II does this neat thing where every hit reduces the potency of the additional damage and [more importantly] acc of the next swing). I'd like to see Enlight "fix" this or Enlight II to be rid of the enmity.

And then yeah, I switch to a job like BLU, which has farmed most of my alexandrite and I get awesome selections like increasing blu points, CA/BA potency, some awesome gifts like increased tiers to nearly all job traits earned from blue magic and I'm baffled.

- - -

Further, a lot of the reason people are at such low JP is that do silly things like 1v1 against a mob (edit: in Zi'tah). While my blu is rounding up a dozen mobs at a time, I see people going 1v1 and I wonder what is going on? Yeah, sure, some jobs don't have potent aoes, but other jobs like blue, geo, sch (manifestation, or /blm), war, rdm/blm, blm, bst can and you can knock out a dozen mobs as easily as you're knocking out one.

Heck, I've cleaved on PLD (Aeolian Edge).

It's not that hard to farm a decent -pdt set for a job to pull, even without defending/vocane ring.

Mafic Cudgel/Genbu's shield (or Terra's Staff)
Twilight Torque
2 5-6% PDT dark rings.
Cape from dragon, can't remember name.

Puts you at -35-37% PDT. For jobs that can get use out of phalanx, you'll push a lot of hits to low-low numbers. Engage, so healing trusts start their business, and start aoe'ing.

People should have solid, if not capped, PDT/MDT/DT sets anyway. They talk about the barrier to get into endgame. Being able to survive aoes is part of being in endgame. It made my laugh the day I got geo skills capped and people were going to red health on things that were barely breaking my stoneskin.

[Kensagaku]

Honestly, depending on the situation, 1v1 works just as well, and in some cases faster. I did both AoE and single-target on BLU, and depending on how good of a day I was having, campaigns, etc, sometimes one was faster than the other. During the campaign, for example, single-target was actually progressively faster because doing a proper AoE pull took enough time that it eventually broke chain, while individual targets I was killing fast enough to maintain it and get more in the end. Also a slight correction. Manifestation does not work on nukes, just on enfeebling/dark spells. The only way you can AoE is with /BLM, and I can assure you that T1 -ga spells (T2 up to... Firaga II, I think?) will not be allowing you to survive a cleave properly.

[OmnysValefor]

Honestly, depending on the situation, 1v1 works just as well, and in some cases faster. I did both AoE and single-target on BLU, and depending on how good of a day I was having, campaigns, etc, sometimes one was faster than the other. During the campaign, for example, single-target was actually progressively faster because doing a proper AoE pull took enough time that it eventually broke chain, while individual targets I was killing fast enough to maintain it and get more in the end. Also a slight correction. Manifestation does not work on nukes, just on enfeebling/dark spells. The only way you can AoE is with /BLM, and I can assure you that T1 -ga spells (T2 up to... Firaga II, I think?) will not be allowing you to survive a cleave properly.

Where are you chaining Ken? I'm talking about Zitah (which I should amend my post to say). My blu is fresh, and gimp, but one aoe and one subduction will kill most pulls.

I wouldn't be surprised if you're chaining in Reisenjima.

Thanks for the correction about manifestation. Oh well. Black magic also suffers from diminished damage on aoe pulls greater than 8 or 10 mobs.

[Kensagaku]

Fair enough, I generally prefer to chain in Reisenjima when farming for silt/stones, or even the gates areas when not, as I tend to get faster CP/hr on the bats in Woh or the Twitherym/Acuex nearby if bats are taken. That being said my BLU is prolly better geared than yours, since you said yours is fresh, so that's probably a difference in style more than anything else. :P

[dasva]

In a way you are already penalized the higher you go in jps. Sure your cp gain rate goes up but nowhere near as much as you think. Like I think the difference between 0 to full assuming you have the other static bonuses might double it... but the amount you need increases at a much greater rate. At the beginning 1 jp gets you an upgrade at the end of a category 20. Similar early on gifts come like every 5-20 or such later on every 50 or so. So having diminishing cp gain rates would be a huge kick in the guts which would probably lead to people just spending enough to not overcap on stored and then spend the last 500 in 1 go

[Olor]

What needs to be done is that the less JP you have the bigger bonus you get, the biggest problem right now is it's so incredibly hard to catch up and get into parties.

Oh gosh yes please. It's just impossible now for me it is so discouraging.


In a way you are already penalized the higher you go in jps. Sure your cp gain rate goes up but nowhere near as much as you think. Like I think the difference between 0 to full assuming you have the other static bonuses might double it... but the amount you need increases at a much greater rate. At the beginning 1 jp gets you an upgrade at the end of a category 20. Similar early on gifts come like every 5-20 or such later on every 50 or so. So having diminishing cp gain rates would be a huge kick in the guts which would probably lead to people just spending enough to not overcap on stored and then spend the last 500 in 1 go

I don't think anyone is suggesting they slow it down at the end just that they should speed it up at the front so that people who are behind don't have to stay SO FAR behind for SO LONG.

[Atomic_Skull]

Further, a lot of the reason people are at such low JP is that do silly things like 1v1 against a mob (edit: in Zi'tah). While my blu is rounding up a dozen mobs at a time, I see people going 1v1 and I wonder what is going on? Yeah, sure, some jobs don't have potent aoes, but other jobs like blue, geo, sch (manifestation, or /blm), war, rdm/blm, blm, bst can and you can knock out a dozen mobs as easily as you're knocking out one.


Some jobs like THF have no choice, they don't have a strong AOE they have low HP and they will never, ever be invited to a CP party.

[OmnysValefor]

Some jobs like THF have no choice, they don't have a strong AOE they have low HP and they will never, ever be invited to a CP party.

I've seen thieves in CP parties. The problem is there is only one to two spots, depending on party comp, between all the melee, tanks included, and tanks are favored. Many groups like knowing the guy taking the hits can survive the hits without a lot of maintenance.

Setups go like this

Tank, Melee, Geo, Mage, Mage, Mage. Frequently there is no healer.

Melee, Melee, Geo, Mage, Mage, Mage. Geo can main heal this.

Tank, SCH, Geo, Mage, Mage, Mage.

It may seem unfair, but it's the reverse of bird parties where groups had room for a mage and a bard, or just a bard, and that was back when /rdm and /whm didn't give haste.

Now the problem is that back then, mages had alternatives ("puddings"). Melees don't really. Melee burns on apex mobs do exist but I've never had one nearly as good.

If I were grinding thf, I might look into the best evasion set I could put together and thf/run (for flash), so that I could tank, or co-tank with another dd. Make myself more viable. You want /run because it offers some useful traits/abils like Swordplay and can get flash down with haste and fast cast, unlike provoke.

As for thf having no decent aoe, it has aeolian edge and access to much of the same MAB gear that NIN has access to. I'm not saying it's a stellar cleaver, but neither is PLD and I've cleaved on PLD (mostly to PL friends).

[Lonnan]

Addressing multiple issues here and using my phone so I won't be quote and cutting

First, the OP. Yeah I agree it's frustrating when the campaigns ends and the exp/cp values drop noticeably. At the same time what the player base considers to be "good" exp/cp is an ever moving target. Back in the day killing Mandies in the jungle a party thought they were boss if they could chain over 400 xp on a single kill. Now even fodder mobs in the escha zones offer around 5k plus xp per kill. Point is that if campaign bonuses become the new normal we will just want more (it's in our nature). So long as SE keeps being generous with the campaigns I can live with the short luls. For the past 3 months I think we've had about 2 weeks without campaign buffs. That's 10/12 weeks which is pretty darn good. So I say, SE please keep the campaigns coming!


As for the discussion about cp parties and limited roles. We all know that this is a player issue. Players want the most/easiest/fastest ways to get cp. With the current state of the game that is a magic burst setup. Eventually, given FFXIs ever decreasing playerbase, the active players will have 3 stars on all their mage jobs. Before that happens, I think we need to make suggestions on how to fix that.

Personally, I think SE should increase skill chain damage (not necessarily ws damage). I think every melee primary DD job that doesn't already have it, should have at least the first 2 skillchain bonus job traits. The bonuses for multistep chains should also be significantly increased. Let's reward players for planning out 4,5,or 6 step chains rather than just going light to light or dark to dark all the time. Heck most players I've seen don't know the properties of any weaponskills other than the Empy ones. I also think that the availability of skill chain bonus gear should rival that of magic burst bonus gear. Right now it feels much easier to find magic burst gear.

[OmnysValefor]

Addressing multiple issues here and using my phone so I won't be quote and cutting

First, the OP. Yeah I agree it's frustrating when the campaigns ends and the exp/cp values drop noticeably. At the same time what the player base considers to be "good" exp/cp is an ever moving target. Back in the day killing Mandies in the jungle a party thought they were boss if they could chain over 400 xp on a single kill. Now even fodder mobs in the escha zones offer around 5k plus xp per kill. Point is that if campaign bonuses become the new normal we will just want more (it's in our nature). So long as SE keeps being generous with the campaigns I can live with the short luls. For the past 3 months I think we've had about 2 weeks without campaign buffs. That's 10/12 weeks which is pretty darn good. So I say, SE please keep the campaigns coming!

I don't believe it's a matter of wanting better and better. You (generic, not literal <you>) just want the best you've seen or near it and it's SE's fault for giving us that and taking it away. Login campaigns, maybe, make people come back and play the game. Maybe they're good for the game. Exp campaigns maybe do the same, but they're a detriment to activity when they go away.


As for the discussion about cp parties and limited roles. We all know that this is a player issue. Players want the most/easiest/fastest ways to get cp. With the current state of the game that is a magic burst setup. Eventually, given FFXIs ever decreasing playerbase, the active players will have 3 stars on all their mage jobs. Before that happens, I think we need to make suggestions on how to fix that.

It's a player issue for wanting greatness, but it's a design issue that a blm can do 99k damage, or even 45k damage with a properly timed cast. A single cast from a geo routinely does more than the combined damage of both ws's and the skillchain's damage. This isn't a minor difference of players pushing for more, this is the nuke team insanely increasing kill speed.

And it's good, SE is letting us work together again to form skillchains and get magic bursts, but the silly things have so much HP that you're crazy not to do it that way.

Further, great apex parties push flash/stun's (usually flash) recast timer to its limits, so every mob gets one flash. As a PLD, I only provoked when flash had a long cd remaining or a mob actually lived longer than normal. The minimal hate that magic bursts produce is nice for that.


Personally, I think SE should increase skill chain damage (not necessarily ws damage). I think every melee primary DD job that doesn't already have it, should have at least the first 2 skillchain bonus job traits. The bonuses for multistep chains should also be significantly increased. Let's reward players for planning out 4,5,or 6 step chains rather than just going light to light or dark to dark all the time. Heck most players I've seen don't know the properties of any weaponskills other than the Empy ones. I also think that the availability of skill chain bonus gear should rival that of magic burst bonus gear. Right now it feels much easier to find magic burst gear.

While the blandness of a manaburn apex party will still be preferable, I agree with this. It's too easy to light or darkness and start thinking about the next kill. I honestly wouldn't like participating in a multi-step skillchain party, because I've seen the tp rates of some players, but those that do should be rewarded.

[Kensagaku]

I second the "melee burn party isn't as good", but it is still valid. My LS and I would occasionally do a few parties before manaburns became the norm, hitting up Apex Crawlers. We'd often go DDx3, Tank, Support, Healer. Tank pulls, keeps mob from turning, and we'd set up three-step WS chains to take large chunks out of its health. Things like Camlainn -> Drakes -> Torcleaver would give us a double light, or something like Req -> Leaden -> Rudra, etc. It would probably take 3-4 chains so we'd not keep an ongoing chain, and sometimes TP took forever if someone's Acc wasn't up to snuff, but it was at least a way for melee to exp over time. Much like how mages had downtime on their puddings to recover MP. Manaburns, sadly, are just so much better, just like birds used to be. I was so spoiled by going from 1200->2100 on BLU within like three parties in a manaburn, something close to 10m CP/hr each one? Was crazy.

That being said, I'd totally love to see Skillchain bonuses increase. I'd love for it to be valid for people to link their WS together. Holding TP is generally detrimental because of the loss of DPS, even though some WS have better bonuses at higher TP values, but if the skillchain increase after is worth it, I'd welcome it.

[dasva]

I don't think anyone is suggesting they slow it down at the end just that they should speed it up at the front so that people who are behind don't have to stay SO FAR behind for SO LONG.
Sorry perhaps I wasn't really clear... it already is slowed down at the end. You are looking at just how fast you gain cp/hr which does go up as you gain more gifts sure but the gain rate of actual modifications go down. Not having faster cping at the end with the current progression would make the end actually slower.

It's similar to how yeah you can get xp way faster at higher lvls than lvl 1... but that doesn't mean you need more xp/hr at lvl 1 because your tnl goes up so much that you are actually leveling slower at higher levels.

So if they balanced the gainrates they'd have to completely reworked the gift/jp progression. Now if they boosted the early end but still had the cp bonuses as you progress that could work... or just keep campaigns 24/7

[detlef]

I think we all knew that once we had a taste of boosted XP/CP events we'd want it full time. It's probably safe to say that there will come a day when even the boosted rates feel unsatisfying.

[dasva]

I think we all knew that once we had a taste of boosted XP/CP events we'd want it full time. It's probably safe to say that there will come a day when even the boosted rates feel unsatisfying.

I'm calling the next time they add something with higher costs of anything... so like something you can realistically get with merits that costs a bunch more (emporox prices are just so ridiculously high no one bothers seriously 25k merits when you can only have 75 on you at a time wtf) or if they give more say new jp categories/bring up the total per category to 30 like originally planned

[OmnysValefor]

I think we all knew that once we had a taste of boosted XP/CP events we'd want it full time. It's probably safe to say that there will come a day when even the boosted rates feel unsatisfying.

Min/maxers will always squeeze out that little bit extra and be looking for more. That is true.

However, this is like your boss giving you two days worth of work per week and you can do it any two days, but he'll pay you double on Thursday and Friday. The rest of the week, if anyone brings up work, you'll pretty much ignore them. You're going to do it on thursday and friday.

- - -

At the same time, I'm not trying to get boosted EXP to go away, that would be poor judgment as well. Just make it full time, and never do another temporary boost again. It is actually bad for activity.

[Aeron]

Can we be honest about the situation xp (lvl1-99 and merits) and job points/gift in no way make you an automatic for endgame so allowing these to events xp/cp to be fulltimed would make it easier for ppl to catchup which is what is needed. Our power playerwise comes from our gear. There is definitely a noticeable drop in player activity ever since the campaign ended.

[Stompa]

I quite like it when the xp/cap events are down, it means I can do weaving and fishing and RME stuff without feeling that I'm losing kerzillions of potential Capacity Points every day lol.

[OmnysValefor]

I quite like it when the xp/cap events are down, it means I can do weaving and fishing and RME stuff without feeling that I'm losing kerzillions of potential Capacity Points every day lol.

You only feel like you must exp during a campaign because zomg, it's the campaign! If it was up full-time, you could go as you pleased.

[Stompa]

You only feel like you must exp during a campaign because zomg, it's the campaign! If it was up full-time, you could go as you pleased.

I totally agree with you, it works both ways. The pressure is really on when you know you have a few days left of super-mega-bonus XP/CAP. And the pressure is a lot worse now with the Chain Bonus, than it was in the olden days of plain double XP/CAP, because now I can't just go and make a coffee or whatever, I feel that I have to push the button in nonstop because of limited timed-event Chain Bonuses.

Its a very stressful system really, it would have been better just adding a few more items / key items that give you extra XP/CAP permanently, and just scrap the timed-event and reliance on Chain Bonuses, which seem to make people frantic and grab mobs from right infront of me, just to keep their chain going.

Another thing they could have done was enable trading a CAP+ cape to a NPC to get a permanent bonus, so you can actually wear your nice JSE cape when you xp.

[OmnysValefor]

Another thing they could have done was enable trading a CAP+ cape to a NPC to get a permanent bonus, so you can actually wear your nice JSE cape when you xp.

This is really smart.

The best cape I've gotten is +37% ( :( luck ), and I feel SLIGHTLY guilty about fulltiming it, but I want my faster JP and I want it now. :P

[Stompa]

This is really smart.

The best cape I've gotten is +37% ( :( luck ), and I feel SLIGHTLY guilty about fulltiming it, but I want my faster JP and I want it now. :P


I'm basically parroting what another Forumer suggested a while ago, s/he said we should be able to trade multiple CAP+ capes for a KI with a cumulative bonus. I'm not sure about that, but I do agree with that person that we should be able to use our JSE cape full-time, after spending millions of gil augmenting it.

The idea that you have to unequip a Job Specific Cape, to farm Job Specific Jobpoints, is of course counterintuitive! Maybe the JSE Cape taru in the Library would be able to synergise your CAP+ cape with your JSE cape, so you could wear the JSE cape and still get capacity points bonus. Or just make the cape's CAP+ bonus into a permanent KI via a mini-quest.

[OmnysValefor]

I'm basically parroting what another Forumer suggested a while ago, s/he said we should be able to trade multiple CAP+ capes for a KI with a cumulative bonus. I'm not sure about that, but I do agree with that person that we should be able to use our JSE cape full-time, after spending millions of gil augmenting it.

The idea that you have to unequip a Job Specific Cape, to farm Job Specific Jobpoints, is of course counterintuitive! Maybe the JSE Cape taru in the Library would be able to synergise your CAP+ cape with your JSE cape, so you could wear the JSE cape and still get capacity points bonus. Or just make the cape's CAP+ bonus into a permanent KI via a mini-quest.

If the goal is a stacking buff (25% cape + 37% cape +16% cape etc etc), that's too far, but if the goal is "I just got a 48% cape, let me go trade it in to overwrite my key item (from last cape) so that I'm getting +48% from kills", that's perfect.

[SMD111]

the only way i can think of to make JP building better is to:
pass the CP bonuses from one job to all jobs but only if you master that job
then as you gain more mastered jobs you will gain a higher CP gain and master jobs faster

so going by the BG wiki:
if you master 3 jobs you would get +960% + the current jobs bonuses on all other jobs
if you master 15 jobs you would get +4800% + the current jobs bonuses on the remaining 7 jobs
and if all but 1 job is mastered you would get +6720% + the current jobs bonuses on that last job when you go for CP/JP building

[OmnysValefor]

I have thought that mastering a job should give a minor bonus to other jobs, like 5% for each job but I don't think the full bonus should stack towards other jobs.

I don't want JP to be obscenely fast, I just want the yo-yo of campaigns to stop.

Also lol, we have the same avatar. Poor ugly fella ;)

[Stompa]

I have thought that mastering a job should give a minor bonus to other jobs, like 5% for each job but I don't think the full bonus should stack towards other jobs.

I don't want JP to be obscenely fast, I just want the yo-yo of campaigns to stop.

Also lol, we have the same avatar. Poor ugly fella ;)


I thought similar things too, about Jobmaster conferring a mild bonus to building CAP on other jobs. I did suggest being able to transfer unused jobpoints after 2100, to another job, I felt that this would alleviate the problem with some jobs being entirely unwanted in CAP burns. If you had a main job which you found it easy to get into parties on, you could transfer excess jobpoints after 2100, to another job - one that nobody would ever invite or even accept in a fast-paced jobpoints party. Currently there are some jobs which are often doomed to solo all their jobpoints with Trusts, while other jobs are very popular and /shouted for endlessly when people build CAP parties.

Jobpoints are still quite new relatively speaking, and maybe SE will look into these things and add some features in the future, to balance and compensate CAP farming for the poor lonely unwanted jobs lol.

[OmnysValefor]

Eh, there are problems with that though~.

People just coming up will have a harder time getting CP when they only job they've got is a 50JP dnc and they're competing for a spot with a 2100 dnc trying to "powergrind" her drk. On top of that, we again go back to the basic idea that the reason the points are exclusive to each job is because they wanted them to be different than merit points. They wanted you to earn them. I have jobs at 99, fully and properly merited, that have never had anything other than a forbidden key macro.

I think the best solution for what to do with the extra JP is turn it into currency like merit points, but with a REASONABLE cost. VW Bodies (Heka's, Mekira's, Toci's--Heka's mostly) are worth 50, maybe 100 JP. Twilight mail/helm (if it were an option) is worth about the same (100-200 for the pair). That sort of thing.

This nonsense of 25,000 merits for town gear is well... nonsense.

[SMD111]

Also lol, we have the same avatar. Poor ugly fella ;)

actually i chose my form avatar because its my char's face
and i chose my char's face because i liked it over the others

[Stompa]

Eh, there are problems with that though~.

People just coming up will have a harder time getting CP when they only job they've got is a 50JP dnc and they're competing for a spot with a 2100 dnc trying to "powergrind" her drk. On top of that, we again go back to the basic idea that the reason the points are exclusive to each job is because they wanted them to be different than merit points. They wanted you to earn them. I have jobs at 99, fully and properly merited, that have never had anything other than a forbidden key macro.

I think the best solution for what to do with the extra JP is turn it into currency like merit points, but with a REASONABLE cost. VW Bodies (Heka's, Mekira's, Toci's--Heka's mostly) are worth 50, maybe 100 JP. Twilight mail/helm (if it were an option) is worth about the same (100-200 for the pair). That sort of thing.

This nonsense of 25,000 merits for town gear is well... nonsense.

I was thinking more along the lines of the 3-for-1 deal that SE seems to use with other things, 3 JSE capes for 1 JSE cape on the job you want, 3 BCNM seals for the 1 seal you want, 3 pairs of Empyrean boots for the 1 pair of Empyrean boots you want, etc.

So I was just speculating on trading 300 jobpoints from my Jobmaster excess unusable points, for 100 jobpoints on a job that never ever gets into CAP parties, ever. I have been told that some jobs are getting 2100 jobpoints in less than a week, if they are on a job that is highly prized in burn parties. Other jobs, which never get invited to anything, are looking at many months of soloing those same points with Trusts. So one week, or many months, depending on the desirability of your job in the burn party situation. That sort of kills the whole idea of the points are locked on your job because of Lore, when the differences in gaining CAP varies so hugely based not on the skills of a player in their main job, but on the community's idea of what comprises an optimum CAP burn party.

But I suggested this just for fun really, I know it will never happen lol.

[OmnysValefor]

I was thinking more along the lines of the 3-for-1 deal that SE seems to use with other things, 3 JSE capes for 1 JSE cape on the job you want, 3 BCNM seals for the 1 seal you want, 3 pairs of Empyrean boots for the 1 pair of Empyrean boots you want, etc.

So I was just speculating on trading 300 jobpoints from my Jobmaster excess unusable points, for 100 jobpoints on a job that never ever gets into CAP parties, ever. I have been told that some jobs are getting 2100 jobpoints in less than a week, if they are on a job that is highly prized in burn parties. Other jobs, which never get invited to anything, are looking at many months of soloing those same points with Trusts. So one week, or many months, depending on the desirability of your job in the burn party situation. That sort of kills the whole idea of the points are locked on your job because of Lore, when the differences in gaining CAP varies so hugely based not on the skills of a player in their main job, but on the community's idea of what comprises an optimum CAP burn party.

But I suggested this just for fun really, I know it will never happen lol.

Nope, that is indeed reasonable. My PLD has a growing pile of JP and nothing to do with them. I wince every time he earns one. I'd be happy to pass a third of those on to a job that doesn't get much invite-love.

I think that idea deserves its own thread. Once you're capped on a job, you should be able to talk to an npc somewhere and "buy" jp for another job at a 3:1 conversion rate.

[Stompa]

Nope, that is indeed reasonable. My PLD has a growing pile of JP and nothing to do with them. I wince every time he earns one. I'd be happy to pass a third of those on to a job that doesn't get much invite-love.

I think that idea deserves its own thread. Once you're capped on a job, you should be able to talk to an npc somewhere and "buy" jp for another job at a 3:1 conversion rate.


I agree with you, but also SE did say it will never happen, so I do only post about it as a sort of /chatmode fun thing, "wouldn't this idea be good if only," etc.

I don't want to really push the boat out on this issue, as I know it will never happen XD.

I just think there is a certain disparity between the very good intentions behind the system, and the way it actually plays out at ground level.

[OmnysValefor]

Just bumping this. Campaign is down again and desire to earn JP plummets.

[Cdryik]

i didn't know this thread, just saw it right after i've post something similar (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/49992-Keep-Exp-bonus-Lv.50-98)~
I'm a returning player, making a new char, exp was lovely during the campaign, no it's sad, i'm alone and bored lol.

I don't know much about Job Point yet, i just know i'll need to end most of the missions line to earn a really good bonus...

The exp bonus should remain full time on Lv.50-98, an (not) working on level sync.