Low End Content *Until* Endgame Content [Archive]

blowfin

04-09-2011, 05:29 AM

What about new incentives for players to level in existing areas? Namely, low level adventurers.

It's not so much that incentives are needed, it's more the facts that the EXP is terrible and people are bored of it.

Campaign could use a massive revamp to make it a viable option from 60-75 again. Then we still have the problem of having a better way to level from 30-60, if people don't want to do Abyssea. Don't know how they're gonna deal with that one...

1-30 is not a problem at all at the moment because there is no other option and the content is actually quite good.

Olor

04-09-2011, 05:29 AM

Yeah, I have to say I feel really left out by the whole game, I've been playing for a month, at level 61 now... but there is still very little I can do when it comes to the game's content. It would be awesome to have content that would help me level, especially since Abyssea has sucked most of the life out of the old zones.

blowfin

04-09-2011, 05:35 AM

level 61 now... but there is still very little I can do when it comes to the game's content.

You`re ready for campaign actually. If you`ve never done it before it can be quite a lot of fun and a nice change of pace. Totally up to you though, the main thing is EXP is now uncapped for you after 60 in campaign.

Also, don`t forget to do Campaign Ops in tandem (mostly smokescreen).
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Smokescreen_I_(San_d%27Oria)
(http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Smokescreen_I_(San_d%27Oria))

Alkalinehoe

04-09-2011, 05:40 AM

I swear, people won't be content until outside abyssea EXP is twenty times better and you get a gold sticker for leveling "the right way."

Linh

04-09-2011, 05:45 AM

I swear, people won't be content until outside abyssea EXP is twenty times better and you get a gold sticker for leveling "the right way."

I am content with leeching in Abyssea then skilling up afterwards.

I just want to see new players in the game. Because the grinding aspect of the game BEFORE endgame is turning off new players. Basically the game isn't fun until endgame.

Alkalinehoe

04-09-2011, 05:51 AM

I am content with leeching in Abyssea then skilling up afterwards.

I just want to see new players in the game. Because the grinding aspect of the game BEFORE endgame is turning off new players. Basically the game isn't fun until endgame.
Garrison, Campaign, Assault, Besieged, BCNM/ENMs, Missions, etc are all activities you can do before you hit 75. I've only done a few Garrisons, but they are pretty fun and I do wish more people were into them. It is unlikely unless SE adds some OMG awesome item from them.

blowfin

04-09-2011, 05:55 AM

And by low level, I mean levels 1-74. That entire range.

1 to 30 or so is fine the way it is, and I don`t usually say this but if you have a problem getting to 30, you`re doing it wrong. 30-75 is devoid of good, current content though, but everyone knows that.

I swear, people won't be content until outside abyssea EXP is twenty times better and you get a gold sticker for leveling "the right way."

Some people, probably yeah. Most people aren`t that daft though, you just see the extreme opinions on here. There is a valid point that many old areas for leveling from 30-75 are essentially graveyards though. Returning and new players seem to want more options in that regard, and I don`t blame them.

Olor

04-09-2011, 05:59 AM

I swear, people won't be content until outside abyssea EXP is twenty times better and you get a gold sticker for leveling "the right way."

I have no problem with Abyssea - I just can't do it... and I know there "is" content - but I want content that advances my levels - BCNMs, garrison, etc. just takes me away from leveling - therefore increasing the length of time I am stuck mostly alone in the world outside of Abyssea.

Basically grinding all by yourself for a month or two till you hit cap is boring - campaign is a good suggestion except - wouldn't it be really difficult for me to do since no one really does it anymore? (Please correct me if I am wrong - but if I went out on the field by myself wouldn't I get my arse kicked?) And can you skill up during campaign? I was under the impression that you can't... again corrections would be welcome...

Back when I quit last time tons of people were doing campaign but I don't think people really do it anymore.

Tsukino_Kaji

04-09-2011, 06:01 AM

EDIT: And by low level, I mean levels 1-74. That entire range.Don't you mean 1-30? ^^

Rambus

04-09-2011, 06:01 AM

What about new incentives for players to level in existing areas? Namely, low level adventurers.

EDIT: And by low level, I mean levels 1-74. That entire range.

I do not see the point in making lower level contant anymore, you level too fast.

Ravenmore

04-09-2011, 06:02 AM

The game for the longest time has been about getting to 75 then doing missions endgame what not. CoP before the nerfs meant you had to have least one 75 and if it wasn't the right job you then had to whm to 60, rdm or nin to 60 just so you had a decent job for all the level cap fights. Unless you only did shout groups that either failed over and over or got really lucky.

Tsukino_Kaji

04-09-2011, 06:02 AM

I do not see the point in making lower level contant anymore, you level too fast.Yeah, who wants level 30 content anyway? lol

Linh

04-09-2011, 06:05 AM

Garrison, Campaign, Assault, Besieged, BCNM/ENMs, Missions, etc are all activities you can do before you hit 75. I've only done a few Garrisons, but they are pretty fun and I do wish more people were into them. It is unlikely unless SE adds some OMG awesome item from them.

Levels 1-59 can't do Besieged, Campaign, Assault.

Garrison requires the new player to farm the item (how will they even know what item to farm? Does it tell them ingame?) AND gather together a group of like-minded adventurers to participate.

Garrison should be revamped to be like Campaign, except each one have a "recommended level" or level cap. Like the one outside Sandy be an hourly event that players level 1-10 to participate in. And the one in Dunes be an hourly event for levels 10-20. You see where I'm going with this.

Also, look at this:

Pre-Abyssea Endgame Content:
Salvage, Campaign, Assault, Besieged, Sky, Sea, Einherjar, Dynamis, Limbus, HNM, Nyzul, ZNM.

SE has endgame nailed down to an ART FORM. What about a fun leveling method until that point?

Alkalinehoe

04-09-2011, 06:06 AM

I have no problem with Abyssea - I just can't do it... and I know there "is" content - but I want content that advances my levels - BCNMs, garrison, etc. just takes me away from leveling - therefore increasing the length of time I am stuck mostly alone in the world outside of Abyssea.

Basically grinding all by yourself for a month or two till you hit cap is boring - campaign is a good suggestion except - wouldn't it be really difficult for me to do since no one really does it anymore? (Please correct me if I am wrong - but if I went out on the field by myself wouldn't I get my arse kicked?) And can you skill up during campaign? I was under the impression that you can't... again corrections would be welcome...

Back when I quit last time tons of people were doing campaign but I don't think people really do it anymore.
So the people who want new "middle game" content want it to be fun or they want it to give them new ways to earn EXP. If you look at this game's past, neither have meshed together. Even with Abyssea leveling is still a chore and not all that fun. I think it's a case of people wanting cake and eating it too.

Campaign can be soloed, especially in the weaker versions like Gusta/Ronfaure/Saruta. DRK/WHM was pretty fun at 75/80. I usually capped EXP and since every mob is aspirable, i never really ran out of MP either. To get best results you always want to be able to cure/take damage/deal damage to earn as much points. They mentioned they were adjusting campaign so hopefully exp bonuses will at least triple to make it competitive.

Tsukino_Kaji

04-09-2011, 06:07 AM

Levels 1-59 can't do Besieged, Campaign, Assault.Um... I do all 3 of those all the time int hat level range.

blowfin

04-09-2011, 06:07 AM

campaign is a good suggestion except - wouldn't it be really difficult for me to do since no one really does it anymore? (Please correct me if I am wrong - but if I went out on the field by myself wouldn't I get my arse kicked?) And can you skill up during campaign? I was under the impression that you can't... again corrections would be welcome...

Campaign should be fine as a solo excursion these days. I don`t know when you quit but they added a bunch of NPCs who can appear at battles who`ll cure and raise you, helps a lot. Try to fight near or with them and the other NPCs. Also, try to keep reraise up, you can buy scrolls from the NPCs at Campaign.

Correct that you dont get skill ups in campaign, after about level 175 or so. I`m not positive where it actually caps out though. If you`re worried just cap yourself out before or after. It not a big drama.

You could also try making yourself a Moblin Maze, but a lot of work goes into making good mazes.

Olor

04-09-2011, 06:09 AM

Campaign can be soloed, especially in the weaker versions like Gusta/Ronfaure/Saruta.

Can be soloed at 61?

Alkalinehoe

04-09-2011, 06:09 AM

Levels 1-59 can't do Besieged, Campaign, Assault.

Garrison requires the new player to farm the item (how will they even know what item to farm? Does it tell them ingame?) AND gather together a group of like-minded adventurers to participate.

Garrison should be revamped to be like Campaign, except each one have a "recommended level" or level cap. Like the one outside Sandy be an hourly event that players level 1-10 to participate in. And the one in Dunes be an hourly event for levels 10-20. You see where I'm going with this.

Also, look at this:

Pre-Abyssea Endgame Content:
Salvage, Campaign, Assault, Besieged, Sky, Sea, Einherjar, Dynamis, Limbus, HNM, Nyzul, ZNM.

SE has endgame nailed down to an ART FORM. What about a fun leveling method until that point?
I said 1-74, which is what this thread's topic was about. And sure, 1-59 can do besieged. Great place to skill up at.

Olor

04-09-2011, 06:10 AM

You could also try making yourself a Moblin Maze, but a lot of work goes into making good mazes.

Yeah I was told that you can't really solo MMM either... and I have no idea how to start that.

Alkalinehoe

04-09-2011, 06:10 AM

Can be soloed at 61?
Probably depends on your job, but IIRC mobs in the starter zones are only level 65 and pretty weak so you shouldn't have too much of a problem.

blowfin

04-09-2011, 06:11 AM

Can be soloed at 61?

Yeah you might die a bit at first until you get the hang of it, but life ain`t meant to be easy.

Yeah I was told that you can't really solo MMM either... and I have no idea how to start that.

You can make mazes for solo, group, crafting, etc. etc. The list is long and confusing.
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/MMM

Olor

04-09-2011, 06:11 AM

Tsukino_Kaji

04-09-2011, 06:11 AM

Yeah I was told that you can't really solo MMM either... and I have no idea how to start that.You can "solo" it, but you have to "cheat."

Olor

04-09-2011, 06:12 AM

Probably depends on your job, but IIRC mobs in the starter zones are only level 65 and pretty weak so you shouldn't have too much of a problem.

I am a BST/DNC...

Linh

04-09-2011, 06:12 AM

So the people who want new "middle game" content want it to be fun or they want it to give them new ways to earn EXP. If you look at this game's past, neither have meshed together. Even with Abyssea leveling is still a chore and not all that fun. I think it's a case of people wanting cake and eating it too.

What the hell is the point of the cake if I can't eat it? That's a stupid analogy.

I see nothing wrong with being able to get good exp and have fun.

Alkalinehoe

04-09-2011, 06:13 AM

I really appreciate the information and suggestions, folks! I just tried to go solo outside of whitegate and almost got pwned yesterday... so I shut down the game in disgust. I have really hit the wall when it comes to exping now.
Why not make some friends and try to leech in Abyssea? Frankly, you're not going to learn anything new going from 62-->75 by leveling outside.

blowfin

04-09-2011, 06:14 AM

I am a BST/DNC...

Perfect for campaign.

I really appreciate the information and suggestions, folks! I just tried to go solo outside of whitegate and almost got pwned yesterday... so I shut down the game in disgust. I have really hit the wall when it comes to exping now.

At 61-62 there`s an exceptional BST solo camp outside of Nashmau too.
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Beastmaster_Viable_Hunting_Grounds

Then its gravy all the way to the 70s using various camps in Aht Urghan.

Olor

04-09-2011, 06:14 AM

I see nothing wrong being able to get good exp and have fun.

Yeah, I never thought I would say this - but I hope that is what the devs were talking about re: dungeons in their 12 month schedule today. It seems like the dungeon type of leveling could solve the exp+fun problem (I hate saying it but...it works for WoW doesn't it?)

Alkalinehoe

04-09-2011, 06:15 AM

What the hell is the point of the cake if I can't eat it? That's a stupid analogy.

I see nothing wrong being able to get good exp and have fun.
It means people want everything all the time. If you eat too much cake you're gonna get fat and fat tarus are not attractive.

Olor

04-09-2011, 06:17 AM

Why not make some friends and try to leech in Abyssea? Frankly, you're not going to learn anything new going from 62-->75 by leveling outside.

I have two linkshells and a good number of friends... the problem is my main linkshell - most of the members are Abyssea noobs themselves (even those at 90) so they don't really have the atma to carry an alliance and don't really feel confident making alliances yet - they have said they would take me in a couple of times but it never happens... so I would rather just keep on grinding er up than wait on that, you know?

My other LS does regular Abyssea events - they even have a weekly leechfest (from what I have heard) but I don't spend as much time with them, AND they have already helped me out a ton (for how much I hang out in there) so I would feel like a REAL leech if got in on that without having the capability of also contributing (so that other people can leech).

Olor

04-09-2011, 06:20 AM

Perfect for campaign.

At 61-62 there`s an exceptional BST solo camp outside of Nashmau too.
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Beastmaster_Viable_Hunting_Grounds

Then its gravy all the way to the 70s using various camps in Aht Urghan.

I've heard this... I just haven't the faintest clue where that is yet... lol. Anyway I am going to work on getting mercenary (when I log in tonight) and see if I can entice a friend of mine to come duo with me. If he is not interested, I will try and find that camp.

Linh

04-09-2011, 06:21 AM

It means people want everything all the time. If you eat too much cake you're gonna get fat and fat tarus are not attractive.

Again, nothing wrong with having fun while getting good exp.

Also disregard my comment about how levels 1-59 can't do Assault, woops. Still gotta be at least 50 for that though....

My stance still stands on the others though.

Alkalinehoe

04-09-2011, 06:25 AM

Again, nothing wrong with having fun while getting good exp.

Also disregard my comment about how levels 1-59 can't do Assault, woops. Still gotta be at least 50 for that though....

My stance still stands on the others though.
Even if you make an event that gives out godly amounts of exp to players 1-90 and is super fun, what's the point of EXPing outside of said event? What's the point of doing Campaign? You are merely suggesting for another Abyssea-esque event to take the new role of best way to EXP. You're still invalidating other methods to EXP.

And again with the analogy, do you really expect Assault to be open to level 1 players? Minimum requirements are a good thing. It isn't until 40/50 jobs start opening up.

Alkalinehoe

04-09-2011, 06:26 AM

I've heard this... I just haven't the faintest clue where that is yet... lol. Anyway I am going to work on getting mercenary (when I log in tonight) and see if I can entice a friend of mine to come duo with me. If he is not interested, I will try and find that camp.

Nashmau can be reached by taking the northern boat in Aht Urghan Whitegate or via shortcut if you have Nyzul Isle Staging Point unlocked.

Ravenmore

04-09-2011, 06:28 AM

Nashmau is easy to get to you take the ferry on the other side from mhura ferry, don't even need SP to get there but it makes it faster.

blowfin

04-09-2011, 06:28 AM

Even if you make an event that gives out godly amounts of exp to players 1-90 and is super fun, what's the point of EXPing outside of said event? What's the point of doing Campaign? You are merely suggesting for another Abyssea-esque event to take the new role of best way to EXP. You're still invalidating other methods to EXP.

I think youre missing the base concept a bit. Chest whoring in Abyss is actually quite a dull way to level, and some people dont want to do it. So yes, thats exactly what theyre asking for. An alternate EXP method that actually involves, you know, killing things and fun. Doesnt have to be something new either, not sure where you got that from.

Olor

04-09-2011, 06:31 AM

Nashmau can be reached by taking the northern boat in Aht Urghan Whitegate or via shortcut if you have Nyzul Isle Staging Point unlocked.

Oh der. Thanks a ton...

Linh

04-09-2011, 06:32 AM

Even if you make an event that gives out godly amounts of exp to players 1-90 and is super fun, what's the point of EXPing outside of said event? What's the point of doing Campaign? You are merely suggesting for another Abyssea-esque event to take the new role of best way to EXP. You're still invalidating other methods to EXP.

And again with the analogy, do you really expect Assault to be open to level 1 players? Minimum requirements are a good thing. It isn't until 40/50 jobs start opening up.

Because said event is fun? Because said event doesn't exist lvl50+, 60+, or w/e and you will have to do other stuff? Because said event only happens every hour for one hour a la Campaign, so you'll still have to do regular exp parties or solo FoV?

And no I don't expect Assault to open to low level players, I expect SE to make a different event for low level players because there is/was a crap ton of endgame.

Alkalinehoe

04-09-2011, 06:33 AM

I think youre missing the base concept a bit. Chest whoring in Abyss is actually quite a dull way to level, and some people dont want to do it. So yes, thats exactly what theyre asking for. An alternate EXP method that actually involves, you know, killing things and fun. Doesnt have to be something new either, not sure where you got that from.
Leveling has always been boring. I'd rather take greater EXP/hr than less with a gimmick. I feel the playerbase is the same, which is why most have migrated to abyssea 30+.

Auredant

04-09-2011, 06:37 AM

I said 1-74, which is what this thread's topic was about. And sure, 1-59 can do besieged. Great place to skill up at.

yeah...u CAN do beseiged below 60...you'll just be totally useless and not be able to hit stuff. Lol. Good for magic skillups tho.

Auredant

04-09-2011, 06:39 AM

I have two linkshells and a good number of friends... the problem is my main linkshell - most of the members are Abyssea noobs themselves (even those at 90) so they don't really have the atma to carry an alliance and don't really feel confident making alliances yet - they have said they would take me in a couple of times but it never happens... so I would rather just keep on grinding er up than wait on that, you know?

My other LS does regular Abyssea events - they even have a weekly leechfest (from what I have heard) but I don't spend as much time with them, AND they have already helped me out a ton (for how much I hang out in there) so I would feel like a REAL leech if got in on that without having the capability of also contributing (so that other people can leech).

Not for me to say, but it sounds like maybe u should spend more time with the second LS. Just a suggestion

Olor

04-09-2011, 06:57 AM

Not for me to say, but it sounds like maybe u should spend more time with the second LS. Just a suggestion

Yeah... maybe... but I think that friendship is really important. I only got the second LS at all because I am in the pacific time zone and most of my first LS goes to bed at like 9-10 pm (my time).

I really like the second LS too but I feel bad when I spend time in there when my other LS is active. I've been hanging out with the peeps from the first LS since last August and they have helped me a lot (one member even walked me through building my own computer through IRC) so I am not about to bail.

I am not too worried about it - I know I will be in Abyssea before long, and seriously, I won't mind if my first experience with it doesn't happen till after I beat Maat for the first time.

blowfin

04-09-2011, 07:01 AM

I feel the playerbase is the same, which is why most have migrated to abyssea 30+.

Try to think of it from the perspective of a new player or someone whos just come back to the game. They come expecting a good experience from leveling, not to key whore in Abyss for 45 levels.

Linh

04-09-2011, 07:07 AM

Try to think of it from the perspective of a new player or someone whos just come back to the game. They come expecting a good experience from leveling, not to key whore in Abyss for 45 levels.

I think back on my times in end game (well, what's left of it now), and the fact that I enjoyed it A LOT more than what was required to get to that point, and would not wish it upon a new player.

blowfin

04-09-2011, 08:01 AM

I think back on my times in end game (well, what's left of it now), and the fact that I enjoyed it A LOT more than what was required to get to that point, and would not wish it upon a new player.

Well yeah, but key whoring (i assume that's what you're proposing as an alternative) is more boring than the old way of leveling to a lot of people. If you wouldn't wish the old way of getting EXP upon them why would you want them to go through something they see as even less of a fulfilling grind?

It does not make sense.

Linh

04-09-2011, 08:05 AM

...If you wouldn't wish the old way of getting EXP upon them why would you want them to go through something they see as even less of a fulfilling grind?

I never said that. Right now this topic is about content outside of Abyssea for levels 1-74.

Karinya_of_Carbuncle

04-09-2011, 08:06 AM

It's not so much that incentives are needed, it's more the facts that the EXP is terrible and people are bored of it.

Uh... did you miss the patch where they DOUBLED all non-abyssea exp? On top of the increases already provided by rings and FoV? If that's your idea of "terrible exp" I'd hate to see what you would have done in 2003...

The only reason anyone might have trouble leveling 1-75 is that they can't find other party members and they have a job that is bad at soloing. And even then they can probably do ok with a NPC, or 2 PC + 2 NPC.

blowfin

04-09-2011, 08:23 AM

I never said that.

Well, I have absolutely no idea what point you were trying to make then.

Uh... did you miss the patch where they DOUBLED all non-abyssea exp? On top of the increases already provided by rings and FoV? If that's your idea of "terrible exp" I'd hate to see what you would have done in 2003...

I`m not talking about 2003, what is this, Hill Valley circa 1985 or something?

It`s terrible compared to Abyss, that was my point, and I thought it was pretty obvious. Give people something more appealing than keying to 75, and they`ll probably take it. Simple.

Vold

04-09-2011, 08:31 AM

Want a reason for people to experience in CP areas again? How about releasing new CP items for rank 10 that costs several hundred thousand CP. These items are fricking uber and unique, so uber and unique that I can't even conceive them at this time. That would force people back into CP areas. Make these items for ToAU too but different items. Problem motherfreaking solved. Next problem, go.

Linh

04-09-2011, 08:34 AM

Well, I have absolutely no idea what point you were trying to make then.

I enjoyed endgame.

I didn't enjoy the grind to GET TO endgame.

I wouldn't wish the grind on other people.

Point.

Harpalina

04-11-2011, 02:22 PM

Meh, I personally like the traditional way of levelling. If I ever got bored with it...and I have, mind you...I would do something else. That's the beauty of FFXI...there are several different activities to do. Now, are all of em soloable? Hell no. lol. Me, personally, I wouldn't mind a revamped system of exping or more activities mid-level. I have a few jobs that are in that level range so I would be able to reap the benefits. I dunno if it's ever going to happen though...

Rambus

04-11-2011, 02:32 PM

I really need to understand the point. Back when leveling was slower I did garrsions, assult under cap, cop under cap, and that level 20 thing you go to maze of shakhrami /gusgen mines ( no idea where sandy is, hate sandy).

I did like the feel of growing in level as you achive something ( old CoP)

now leveling is too fast to put effort into it. I just do not see the point, why put effort and time to program something that people will not use a lot because they are 90 in a day?

you are going to have to make abyssea 75+, redo the way you exp to have a reason for some type of "midgame" (like nerfing AB crap and such).

This is where i think WoW does better then FFXI at, you can exp by soloing/quests, or you can flag your self for "low-mid game" dungon runs.

Harpalina

04-11-2011, 02:39 PM

I really need to understand the point. Back when leveling was slower I did garrsions, assult under cap, cop under cap, and that level 20 thing you go to maze of shakhrami /gusgen mines ( no idea where sandy is, hate sandy).

I did like the feel of growing in level as you achive something ( old CoP)

now leveling is too fast to put effort into it. I just do not see the point, why put effort and time to program something that people will not use a lot because they are 90 in a day?

you are going to have to make abyssea 75+, redo the way you exp to have a reason for some type of "midgame" (like nerfing AB crap and such)

I would have to agree...my 75s that I took pride in feel like hollow achievements now. I would like Abyssea to be 75+ but I doubt SE is going to do that...it would be like taking a step backwards for them...not to mention a huge player backlash.

Linh

04-11-2011, 04:27 PM

...I just do not see the point, why put effort and time to program something that people will not use a lot because they are 90 in a day?

Because it's fun? Because people will then have a choice on whether to leech Abyssea exp (highly doubtful if you are a BRAND NEW PLAYER), or level up by going out on adventures.

Flunklesnarkin

04-11-2011, 04:45 PM

It would be fun if they could add some low level abyssea camps for people 30~60ish.. and the mobs would never become strong enough to be easy prey to anybody 75+

Rambus

04-11-2011, 04:57 PM

Because it's fun? Because people will then have a choice on whether to leech Abyssea exp (highly doubtful if you are a BRAND NEW PLAYER), or level up by going out on adventures.

I do not like what abyssea has done in aspect of incurage of old time players mingle of new time players. I liked what the level sync did ( leave out ab burn crap)

What I am trying to say is this, it may be fun for you or for a few people but I just do not see meny people using it, most people will rush to 90 then gear them self with emp gear. the only reason I do not really support this is because I do not think meny people will do it.

I do not think SE has a lot of resources to program such things that will appeal to so few. Low level abyssea seems streange, you can have some high level to help cream the low level stuff (i/e leeching) so I do not see that fixing the leeching problem.

Like I said ealier I would of seen the point when exping was slower ( pre ahu) where I did “midgame” stuff myself, garrison, that level 20 that level 20 thing you go to maze of shakhrami /gusgen mines ( no idea where sandy is, hate sandy), Old CoP and level cap assaults.

Look how many people do assaults, dyna, limbus,sky, and sea now. What I see now I just do not see people doing “midgame” you level too fast.

I would love to do something different then abyssea, I would love to help people in some level cap thingy doing lower "midgame" (like assult I did 50 caps lol) but people do not do it. This si abyssea only era.

Also my inventory space says no to me to do cap stuff anymore -.- the level sync changes need to be improved to allow me to level sync.

Linh

04-11-2011, 07:15 PM

...I would love to do something different then abyssea, I would love to help people in some level cap thingy doing lower "midgame" (like assult I did 50 caps lol) but people do not do it. This si abyssea only era....

But why do people level up so fast? To do endgame/abyssea right? People want to be at the max level so they can do all of the *fun content*, to hang out with RL friends, with friends they made through leveling, with their LS mates.

What's stopping SE from making low-mid level content just as fun as max level content? Cuz endgame/Abyssea must be a lotta fun if people want to level up so fast.

Lexin

04-11-2011, 07:48 PM

Rambus

04-11-2011, 08:16 PM

But why do people level up so fast? To do endgame/abyssea right? People want to be at the max level so they can do all of the *fun content*, to hang out with RL friends, with friends they made through leveling, with their LS mates.

What's stopping SE from making low-mid level content just as fun as max level content? Cuz endgame/Abyssea must be a lotta fun if people want to level up so fast.

what endgame? I do not know how you define endgame but FFXI does not have it atm.

people level fast because they can, people do abyssea for emp gear, then they get e-peen numbers.
then most take "brakes" because there is nothing to do.

if most people where out for fun they would do sea, sky, assault, limbus, dyna, so on just for the sake of doing it every once in a while for something different. But people apperenly do stuff for gear only so more "lower level content" is a waste of time. If it was not you would see new people doing the 75 things or even the 20 things, 30 things, 50 things, so on but they don't.

but atm that is not the case it is abyssea or do not play and i think that is why people been dropping lately. the shouts for missions, cop , so on is less and less, and shouts for stuff like dyna is less and less.

most people play for gear as far as i can tell, since it is abyssea only.

I do not find any "fun" in trying to ws or cast when the mob is not doing so when said mob spams said action ( 1000 needle proc is "fun”) over and over again. it was change, it was neat for like a week but then gets very tedious. Having event that is 5/20 job is “fun”

since game was 80 (so since first abyssea) here is the list of jobs i was asked to be:
PLD:1
WAR: more times i can count
WHM: few times ( more then 1 or 2 but not as much)
MNK:0
BLM: few
THF:0
RDM:0
DRK:0
BST:0
BRD:1 ( was not even for abyssea, was for AV)
RNG:0
SAM:0
NIN:0
DRG:2 (for blue)
SMN: 1 (edit , i take this back, I was SMN for ZNM a few times but I think just one was after level 75, so i changed this from 0 to 1)
BLU: more then i can count
COR:0
SCH: few, (when we had blu,war, whm, blm and they wanted extra damage or a combo of extra damage/support, and the fact SCH is considered my main) also useally SCH for non-abyssea events, had more non-abyssea at 80 abyssea.

BLU has to be my favorite abyssea job, it can do so many different things, but I would like to play my other jobs time to time but I don't because they are considered useless. ( and FFS give jobs cure V, whm only for cure)

Ecowarrior which was a fun event.

I wouldn't mind seeing some new low level event type features.

I agree, the thing is I would do it, maybe linh and you will do it but most people would not.

Eeek

04-11-2011, 09:13 PM

Low-leveling exping was never fun. Most people only joined slow, boring exp parties because there was no other alternative.

In the fall of last year, I leveled my DNC from 37-70 the traditional way. Despite all the bad parties (do people even remember how many bad parties we dealt with back in the day?) and FoV, I managed to level to 70 in roughly 6 weeks. It took 3 days to level from 70-85. I'd rather of spent those 6 weeks gearing up my DNC and getting comfortable playing it at the level that matters: 85 (now 90).

I started in 2006, and my mid-level content options in my LS were BCNMs and CoP. Players complained endlessly, on forums and in Lower Jeuno, about the strict party setups and strategies needed to win these battles. They complained so much so that CoP was nerfed into oblivion and the level caps removed. I played through CoP with my LS as we leveled our first and second jobs to 75, and the run through Riverne on my fresh-from-Crawler's-Nest 40RNG to fight the mammets was an astonishing experience for a newer player like me.

But most new players back then couldn't even dream of completing the game's mid-level content. Hell, many 'experienced' players couldn't cope with the CoP BCs. The content wasn't impossibly hard; lazy players just made it look that way. SE probably removed the CoP level caps out of frustration so that more players could experience the nifty (and devious!) Lumoria zones.

SE also spent 2009 adjusting the game and developing content for the low-mid levels. SE emphasized it so much that it completed stagnated the game at the high levels. I love Fields of Valor as much as the next guy, but I don't think that was worth the lost year of development possibilities.

Let's look reality in the eye: FFXI is an old, legacy MMO. There are not hordes of newer players on low and mid-level jobs. There will never be another substantial flow of new players entering the game, and SE would be foolish to develop new content that caters to a statistically insignificant percentage of the player base. It's been done already. The content is there if anyone wants to do it. The only thing stopping people from doing things like Garrison or low-level exping is a lack of initiative and creativity.

Compared to the old days, there are now a ridiculous number of options for leveling jobs (and boosted exp!). And yet people still complain.

If SE has any sense, never again will they develop content specifically for the low-mid levels. The game's old. That ship has sailed. SE's strategy will rightly be the development of high-level content as means to keep the game fresh and to retain players (as well as to lure back former players). FFXI can certainly remain viable for years to come.

Kaych

04-11-2011, 11:41 PM

The “problem” I think when they made double EXP to all levels is that, people level too fast from 1-30, (You have to bring multiple sets of gear if you wanna keep up with the exp) and you dont level fast enough from 50+. (Abyssea is faster)

I think that the “EXP boost” should be increased via quests as you level. They could add “EXP boost”-quests/missions. That way people will have a better reason to finish quests and missions^^ It can help the over-all-content as you get to lvl 75. It can be a added bonus when you finish all nation missions, all quests from a nation etc.

I know SE is very afraid to change old content. They usually create new stuff instead. So either these “EXP-boosts” can be made avalable through new missions/quests or they can revamp the old areas to add “EXP-boost” rewards as you finish quests/missions; example all the Nation missions in bastok gives 10% of your level in exp bonus each mob. With each completed story line, you are added another 20% EXP bonus. All three nations done would give 60% in EXP bonus. All nations, ZM, CoP, ToAU, WotG, and 3 addons would make 200% of your level in bonus EXP. So if you are lvl 10, you get the normal exp + 20 exp plus. If you are lvl 50 you get normal exp + 100 exp, and so on.

Implementing the "Double EXP" in this way I think would be more beneficial. Then it would be adjusted to your level, rank, fame etc and would increse as you level and finished these achivements.

Another thing is when you get a fame rank up, you could get Experience Points. For fame 1 you get 1000 exp. Fame 2 you get 2000 exp, and so on. That way, people could also have an "extra" motivation to finish quests.

Also, "all-quests-finished" in one area, like Jeuno, Bastok, Windurst, could give 50k EXP reward. There could be a level cap, like lvl 50+ before you can receave the EXP :) (I dont think its unreasonable with that amount of EXP, but if you do, feel free to comment^_-)

Limit-cap quest could give 50 extra EXP to people over a certan lvl. when you break the lvl 50 cap, you get 50 more exp for lvl 50+ jobs. And when you break lvl 55 cap, you get another 50 (resulting in 100EXP bonus). And so on and so on.

Getting chains from 1-5 could give more EXP and should be adjusted to your lvl:D

Obtaining certan Titles that are difficult to get, could also give a "EXP boost" or EXP (or something else if you have a better suggestion).

Overall, I think this would make people wanting to do more stuff outside of Abyssea and at the same time make it more enjoyable ^_-

Eeek

04-11-2011, 11:54 PM

Once again, the only thing stopping people from enjoying the already-existing mid-level content is good ole laziness. Instead of actually getting people together in game to do some of this stuff, most people find it easier to bitch and bitch and bitch and bitch on any forum they can find. Usually it involves proposing some from of bribery to force other players into doing content they normally don't want to do (like Garrison).

Anyone could corner me with a 'but..but...Abyssea?' rebuttal, and I don't care. I, along with a number of people I know, enjoy doing stuff in Abyssea for a variety of reasons.

Andevom

04-11-2011, 11:55 PM

Garrison, Campaign, Assault, Besieged, BCNM/ENMs, Missions, etc are all activities you can do before you hit 75. I've only done a few Garrisons, but they are pretty fun and I do wish more people were into them. It is unlikely unless SE adds some OMG awesome item from them.

Garrison is in serious need of an overhaul if it's ever going to be popular again. Like you, I enjoy the concept and would like to do more of it. But the problems are the time restrictions (can only do it once per Conquest and doing it in a large group takes time due to the 30 minute cooldown), and the fact that you have to be affiliated with the nation that has control of the zone. These complications make it hard to get people interested. New items for rewards would be good, but rewards need to be something that encourages redoing the event. Part of the problem with giving gear as a reward is that once people get it, they don't care about doing the event anymore, and once the majority of people interested get the stuff they want, they're not always going to be the type to help those who need it done.

Kaych

04-12-2011, 01:00 AM

Eeek

04-12-2011, 01:16 AM

I love Abyssea, but I love the old world as well. Its not "lazyness" that stops people from going to the old content. Its just more beneficial to be in Abyssea.

Yeah, it absolutely is laziness. People would rather stand in Port Jeuno watching /shouts, complaining the whole time, than go out and actually do something. Actually lead.

But they don't.

To be honest, I've been having fun with the occasional trip to revisit older content. Assaults and Nyzul Isle are still fast and fun. I enjoy Dynamis so much more with a small party these days as opposed to an alliance (or more) half-filled with inattentive, poor players. I've even farmed popsets and Sky NMs for a few people who missed a piece of gear or two along the way or leveled new jobs.

A Humble Request for the FFXI Development Team: Is it possible to update Kirin so that he'll actually drop Wyrmal Abjuration: Legs once in awhile? It would mean a lot to myself and some of my friends. Thanks for your time and your consideration.

Rambus

04-12-2011, 01:19 AM

I love Abyssea, but I love the old world as well. Its not "lazyness" that stops people from going to the old content. Its just more beneficial to be in Abyssea.

That is one of their points.... that is why people do not do lower level content, that is why there is no point to make mid level content....

(maybe not seeing their post now but that is how i took it)

wish12oz

04-12-2011, 01:20 AM

Olor

04-12-2011, 02:45 AM

By not going to abyssea to gain exp, you are intentionally increasing the length of time you are stuck alone. You could have 90 in 2 days of exping in abyssea, or 65 with 2 days of exping outside. You've also been able to go there since 30.

Go there and what? News flash - I can't kill anything in Abyssea - so if I want exp people have to invite me to an alliance and I have nothing to offer that. No cruor = no keys.

If I saw a shout in Jueno that said "looking for leeches to stand around!" I would be all over it. I've told my LS mates that I want to go but they don't take me - they say I should wait till I beat maat - (partially because they don't have enough atma to carry me/everyone else over 30 in the LS that would like to leech) so that is all there is to it.

I can tell you now that if I logged in tonight and someone sent me a tell saying "hey come leech in Abyssea right now" I would be all over it. So don't tell me I am "intentionally" skipping it when I am NOT.

blowfin

04-12-2011, 03:26 AM

I can tell you now that if I logged in tonight and someone sent me a tell saying "hey come leech in Abyssea right now" I would be all over it. So don't tell me I am "intentionally" skipping it when I am NOT.

But that's how it works for him so it has to be the same for EVERYONE else :rollseyes:

Seriously though, that's a little harsh of your LS not to let you come and leech with them when they EXP. Ask them again. It's not like it's any skin off their nose if you weren't going to be contributing a whole lot in the first place. By investing some time leveling you up now, they`re ensuring you`ll be useful in a shorter time span.

Olor

04-12-2011, 03:43 AM

I know, I know. I don't get why they won't take me in - it isn't like they are running full alliances. I don't get it but at the same time they have helped me out a lot so I don't really like to complain too much. It would help if SE made it so there was something an abyssea noob could do besides rely on the kindness of others... but whatever

blowfin

04-12-2011, 04:04 AM

It would help if SE made it so there was something an abyssea noob could do besides rely on the kindness of others... but whatever

Theres a bunch of solo quests you can do without any help at all, and its a good way to get all your confluxes so youre ready when the time comes.

Olor

04-12-2011, 04:06 AM

Theres a bunch of solo quests you can do without any help at all, and its a good way to get all your confluxes so youre ready when the time comes.

Oh didn't know that. Thanks for actually offering useful info (you do it often!) I'll dig through the wiki a bit more now that I know that.

Glamdring

04-12-2011, 04:10 AM

Luvbunny

04-12-2011, 04:25 AM

This is rather an easy fix to be honest. SE can do the following adjustment to make it more attractive to lvl 30-70

- Increase the xp reward from FoV, double it. Also decrease the mob needed to 5 and limited to 1-2 type of mobs similar to Abyssea.
- Lower the xp loss from having NPC Fellow from 30% to 10% so that it is more feasible for trio to chain T-VT without having to make a full group.
- Make xp chest dropped from mob, with xp from 500 (at lower lvls) to 1000 (at higher lvls) and grant us similar temp items as Abyssea when you are under the signet and spend conquest points at outpost NPC.
- Create a similar "atmas" for outside Abby, maybe granted by completing missions, with Windurst missions give you 3-5 magic atmas, Sandy defense atmas, Bastok attack atmas, different ones from CoP, ToAU and WoTG. Call it something else or keep it atmas to make it less confusing.
- Add more FoV in dungeons, ToAU areas, and WoTG areas.
- Give us more variety of gears obtainable by spending conquest points etc...

By doing those changes you will see more lvl synch group moving from one FoV to another areas and getting from 30-75 will be much less painful. On the downside, all of those people who do trial weapons will start seeing much competitions from normal xp party...

Olor

04-12-2011, 05:28 AM

Actually, with the raise in XP and skill outside Abyssea I must say I'm enjoying leveling outside Abyssea. I've gone 1-50 in about 40 hours of playtime solo (discounting time spent waiting on new frames, roadwork for quests, etc) with all skills on myself and auto capped (excepting guard of course). It's actually fun again, and I completly managed to stay out of the dunes and Qufim, bonus!

1-50 was fine... but 50-60 has taken me SO LONG and now I have been 61 for around a week (partially b/c of taking time out to do level break/AF quests and not having as much time to play)

Glamdring

04-12-2011, 06:31 AM

I know the feeling. I have alot of "Japanese Midnight" content at level 50 going (3 pieces of AF, black mage head for Auto, asinine system but nobody asked me). Taking advantage of the time to farm Hilltroll Puppetmasters for attachments, NMs for gear and get the Lvl 50 JSE from Brygid. However, after that I'll probably have to solo 50-60 in West Altep. Seriously, now that you can get skill off DC- you can keep doing FoV for alot longer. When it slows down I think I'll go work on my Guard skill off some EP (it's level 52, was 0 when I started PUP).

Good news for you, 61 you can just live in campaign if you can't get an Abyssea party. Break from it to do every Beseiged that comes up so your skills get a chance to stay close to cap. You can also do FoV in Ro'Maeve off the low level Evil Weapons, but it is very overcampped, at least on my server (XP and all Emp weaps involving Arcana/Evil Weaps). If you don't have to worry about silence, FoV in West Alteppa on ants is viable for quite awhile yet, too.

Olor

04-12-2011, 07:16 AM

Oh I like the desert....

Linh

04-12-2011, 03:30 PM

Low-leveling exping was never fun. Most people only joined slow, boring exp parties because there was no other alternative.

Therein lies the problem. Then they need to make it fun.

...Let's look reality in the eye: FFXI is an old, legacy MMO. There are not hordes of newer players on low and mid-level jobs. There will never be another substantial flow of new players entering the game, and SE would be foolish to develop new content that caters to a statistically insignificant percentage of the player base. It's been done already. The content is there if anyone wants to do it. The only thing stopping people from doing things like Garrison or low-level exping is a lack of initiative and creativity....

...If SE has any sense, never again will they develop content specifically for the low-mid levels. The game's old. That ship has sailed. SE's strategy will rightly be the development of high-level content as means to keep the game fresh and to retain players (as well as to lure back former players). FFXI can certainly remain viable for years to come....

But there seems to be quite a sum of people who have expressed their disdain for Abyssea leeching already. SE needs to redesign the older content to be more accessible to all players. Look at Garrison, you need to farm a stupid rare/ex item, THEN gather a group of like-minded people as well.

Zumi

04-12-2011, 04:39 PM

FFXI has so few new players that they want to keep the ones they already have still playing. So its smart of them to focus on high level end game content.

Camate

04-13-2011, 07:28 AM

Olor

04-13-2011, 07:57 AM

Awesome. Thanks for the response man. It is getting really heinous for me to level now.

Catsby

04-13-2011, 08:30 AM

Karbuncle

04-13-2011, 08:45 AM

Many people don't seem to realize that this is why they are upset with abyssea grinding from 30 to 90. There is literally NO reason to be any level besides 90 since there's nothing to do before that. No meaningful level restricted challenges or content.

Hey now.

BCNM20/30/40/50/60, Eco-Warrior, Expeditionary Forces(Multiple Difficulty/Level Ranges/Zones to do it in), Escort Quests(multiple Difficulty/Level Ranges/Zones to do it in), Garrisons(Multiple Difficulty Level Ranges/zones to do it in), Those Fishing-quests are 25 cap. Theres more I'm just not able to remember them

I don't know about you, But when i first began playing, Everything i listed above Was popular, Its not a matter of having nothing to do 1~90, Its a matter of people being too lazy, Or to unknowledgeable and don't know those things exist. Eco-Warrior rewards you with Gil, and an Exp Scroll. Garrison offers Armor and some gil (mannequin parts), Expeditionary Forces gives you a lot of Conquest Points, Etc.

There are "pre-endgame" Activites, People just don't pay enough attention to them, Or generally don't think they're "Rewarding" enough. shit Eco-Warrior was the best thing to happen in the game ever in my eyes back when i was ~level 25, and it was hard as *fk*.

:3

Mezzopiano

04-13-2011, 10:11 AM

I think the problem is less "no low-level content" and more "there is low-level content, but no one touches it until they're high-level". Look at what happened with CoP back when the missions were capped.

Landrss

04-13-2011, 12:34 PM

It would be nice to see campaign revamped so that the experience given was increased ten fold but done in a way that takes a players level into consideration. For example to start take what an average player on a weekend doing ten hours of Abyssea can make in experience (This includes leaving to drop merits ) For the example lets say that a player can earn 300,000 exp in a 5 hour period. So lets use level 60 and 2/3 of the experience earned in Abyssea at 90 and give a player at level 60 the ability to earn approx. 200,000 in five hours of campaign or 40,000 exp an hour. This would be my idea for levels 60-75 With the experience earned in Campaign increased as a player levels up. Secondly remove the restriction from earning Skill-ups well under the effects of a campaign battle, to balance this make deaths carry exp loss but with half the normal loss outside Campaign. Lastly Make the gear we can earn from Campaign Battles something we can upgrade via trials.
For the levels 30-60 range I think we simply need to see dramatic increases in the about of experience we can earn from doing FOV pages and please give up more areas to do pages in. We still have no pages in the WotG areas or the ToaU areas. And of course pages for dungeons, caves etc.

None of this would be something we would have thought about pre-Abyssea days but we all need to realize that Abyssea has fundamentally altered the way we play 11. We need another option after 30 instead of leeching characters to 90 and then spending weeks in the tree doing skillups. (To clarify I have no problems with leeching characters, I've done it a few times myself but if I had an option to do something else that still gave me the potential exp that sitting in a FC party does I would be more then happy to do that.)

Chronofantasy

04-13-2011, 01:37 PM

Hey now.

BCNM20/30/40/50/60, Eco-Warrior, Expeditionary Forces(Multiple Difficulty/Level Ranges/Zones to do it in), Escort Quests(multiple Difficulty/Level Ranges/Zones to do it in), Garrisons(Multiple Difficulty Level Ranges/zones to do it in), Those Fishing-quests are 25 cap. Theres more I'm just not able to remember them

I don't know about you, But when i first began playing, Everything i listed above Was popular, Its not a matter of having nothing to do 1~90, Its a matter of people being too lazy, Or to unknowledgeable and don't know those things exist. Eco-Warrior rewards you with Gil, and an Exp Scroll. Garrison offers Armor and some gil (mannequin parts), Expeditionary Forces gives you a lot of Conquest Points, Etc.

There are "pre-endgame" Activites, People just don't pay enough attention to them, Or generally don't think they're "Rewarding" enough. shit Eco-Warrior was the best thing to happen in the game ever in my eyes back when i was ~level 25, and it was hard as *fk*.

:3

Some other quests are capped too like Return of the Depths which is 40 cap, there's a level 10 cap quest in Dangruf Wadi, and if you want to solo your first group of avatars for your smn instead of doing the prime fights, those fights are capped at lvl 20.

slakyak

04-13-2011, 06:23 PM

Why can't the community team just craft us lowbies some gear and chuck it on the ah? It's not like they're busy or anything ;)

kingfury

04-13-2011, 08:48 PM

The development team is most definitely aware of the difficulties associated with the lower levels and they are thinking of some possible ways to counter this. While their direction is not necessarily going to be an increase in content for specific levels (ex: more battlefields for level 10 etc.), they will continue to pay special attention to ways that players can get through the lower levels at a good pace.
----------------
^^; No need for new Battlefields at all (technically speaking)! "The FFXI "Gyms of Vana'diel" (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/1978-The-FFXI-quot-Gyms-of-Vana-diel-quot-Self-Improvement-Reborn!) can solve those low level woes! Boss Npc's and other regimen sources for exp would allow for on the job training and quick efficient leveling solo, or even in a party of 6! ^-~/

/Kingfury finishes plug

Kensagaku

04-13-2011, 09:55 PM

kingfury

04-14-2011, 03:10 AM

Alright, even lil' ol' neutral me has to say this... you're going waaaaaaaaay overboard with this, Kingfury. As I think it's been stated, it's great that the dev team has shown themselves to be pleased with your idea, but at the same time you're A) getting a big head and B) starting to grow very annoying from the little bit of praise you got. I'm all for being excited about you having something recognized; that's a nice little feat all in itself. But at the same time, chill a bit. If they actually implement it, then you can go nuts. Until then? Reel it back in a bit, bud.
Hard to believe you're this energetic; you seemed so sober in our Salvage static for the short time I was there.
---------------
Dude, gimmie a break. A "big head" constitutes constantly Bragging, boasting, belittling others, and more. I've done none of these things to date, nor will I ever.

I responded to what was being said by pointing out some of the areas apart of my concept. This is in fact a separate Thread that deals with a similar issue addressed in my thread, so unless there is an unwritten rule about talking about similar issues across threads, wth are you talking about.

I haven't done anything annoying in regards to any of my ideas posted here on these boards so if you've reached that conclusion on your own, sorry for ya since it wasn't based on my actions. I'm not going to stop posting ideas if that's what you mean by "annoying", so just don't read my threads if that's the case. Even the post that got positive feedback from the Community Reps was not an attempt on my part at anything more than offering up my opinions for better game systems.

"This energetic" by what standards? Typing an emote? /toss

Eeek

04-14-2011, 04:13 AM

---------------
Dude, gimmie a break. A "big head" constitutes constantly Bragging, boasting, belittling others, and more. I've done none of these things to date, nor will I ever.

I responded to what was being said by pointing out some of the areas apart of my concept. This is in fact a separate Thread that deals with a similar issue addressed in my thread, so unless there is an unwritten rule about talking about similar issues across threads, wth are you talking about.

I haven't done anything annoying in regards to any of my ideas posted here on these boards so if you've reached that conclusion on your own, sorry for ya since it wasn't based on my actions. I'm not going to stop posting ideas if that's what you mean by "annoying", so just don't read my threads if that's the case. Even the post that got positive feedback from the Community Reps was not an attempt on my part at anything more than offering up my opinions for better game systems.

"This energetic" by what standards? Typing an emote? /toss

Sorry dude, but Kensagaku and Greatguardian are right. You've been geeking out for weeks.

On a related note, your first, bolded statement and your signature are completely at odds with one another. You're claiming, in bold, that you're not boasting about your recognition while your signature is boasting about your recognition.

I'd be excited too if game developers took my idea seriously, but your head's been in the clouds long enough. :)

kingfury

04-14-2011, 04:54 AM

Sorry dude, but Kensagaku and Greatguardian are right. You've been geeking out for weeks.
On a related note, your first, bolded statement and your signature are completely at odds with one another. You're claiming, in bold, that you're not boasting about your recognition while your signature is boasting about your recognition.
I'd be excited too if game developers took my idea seriously, but your head's been in the clouds long enough. :)
------------
lol uh-huh >< If anything, my signature is advertising something that I personally created, invested loads of thought into, took weeks to finish and is something I'm proud of. If you don't have something to put in your signature that means something substantial to you, that's your business. Plus if you're not an artist or graphic designer capable of creating your own work to plug into your signature, I'm sure you'll find something else that is of some value to you. Sorry, but my current signature isn't "Bosting, Bragging, or Belittling others" in the slightest. It has substantial meaning to me, and that's why I chose to put it there. If you feel that way, you should /check yourself 1st.

"geeking out for weeks" how? I'm sure the answer for this will be weak as hell, but I'm curious as to the valid source of such a comment. I'm wise enough to know the source of both of your tones, so I'm not personally offended in any way, but in hopes that you can find some resolve through understanding and communication I'll gladly keep my door open to it.

blowfin

04-14-2011, 05:00 AM

Oh wow, the BG gang has turned into schoolyard bullies, big surprise there.

Karbuncle

04-14-2011, 05:01 AM

Heyheyhey.

I haven't bullied him. here.

Its not everyone.

kingfury

04-14-2011, 05:12 AM

@ Blowfin & Karbuncle: /laugh ><

Karbuncle is indeed a cool head that is creative and okay in my book /

No worries though, I know how to deal with such things. It's nothing new.

Glamdring

04-14-2011, 08:33 AM

I like king, seriously. What he's done is give the rest of us something of a roadmap on how to get developers to take some of our ideas seriously. Even if you don't like his idea (and I really do like it), it was alot more useful from a development standpoint than a generic "Give Dancer Raise" statement.

It also shows that the actually thinks hard about game issues and content, so I for one am not surprised that he has opinions on more than 1 issue. Like all of us, noone is ever going to agree with everything we say but to attack him with the idea that he's had one idea and is somehow milking it is absurd. And as to his signature... if I did as much work on an idea that also managed to catch the interest of as much of the player base-not even considering the development team-I'd probably be kinda proud of it too. The only reason there isn't a link to the soloing guide I wrote in my signature is because they won't let me put it there. My blog, well, maybe if I managed to update it once in awhile...

kingfury

04-14-2011, 09:05 AM

/respect
Thanks a lot Glamd /salute

vedder

04-16-2011, 07:08 AM

honestly as much as i know ima get ripped for this, the leeching of abyssea is part of the issue. they need to address the xp woes outside abyssea and put a level cap on entering abyssea, not something retarded but 60 shouldnt be too bad and it has the fact that ppl can still AB burn or w/e before that. 30 is just too low an im seeing ppl just leeching jobs for the fxxk of it an then struggle with skills that have fallen to so sad a level of utility, guy in my ls i give much respect to refused to lvl in abyssea til he was 70, i myself wont go til 60 just because i feel most ppl need to get a grasp of what a job does/is capable of doing. i know that i leeched my mule whm in a way from 75-90 and am still just gettin the hang of it outside of abyssea, which im sure most of the newer content will take place

Novax

04-16-2011, 07:26 AM

Here is what you do after you leech a job, read read read(if you haven't already before starting said leeching) skill-up, continue researching your job, attain the gear you need. After this you will probably not suck at the job, know what you're doing and why you're doing it, lastly you won't have to "exp the old way to know how to play a job".

Rambus

04-16-2011, 07:36 AM

I think a valid point is presented here, you really do not need hard(detailed) content for low levels, and there is no reason for it. I can see what the dev quote might mean (like lower level dungeons wow has) that gives lower level gear and exp. That would be a lot more interactive then this dumb abyssea leeching crap and so would different level brackets in the gyms of vandel idea. give the guy a brake this is not BG wars.

you want bragging? this is my 1111st post, thats cool! 1111 ;p

Glamdring

04-16-2011, 08:25 AM

you want bragging? this is my 1111st post, thats cool! 1111 ;p

dude, you ever find time to play?

Karbuncle

04-16-2011, 08:40 AM

Probably not :D

I thought i was forum whoring-hard.

And he has 2x my post.

Rambus

04-16-2011, 08:44 AM

i have 2 laptops, a desktop and an xbox, not hard for me to muti task ( duel box and posting)

and wtf:

Tsukino_Kaji
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I'm just quoting this line so I can point it out later Ram. ^^

why make fun of me -.-

Tsukino_Kaji

04-16-2011, 09:08 AM

dude, you ever find time to play?I play just fine.
you want bragging? this is my 1111st post, thats cool! 1111 ;pYou want bragging? I had 1111 posts when you were still less then 400. lol
This our powers combined, we out tally the JP forums!

Taheenaa

04-17-2011, 08:42 PM

The development team is most definitely aware of the difficulties associated with the lower levels and they are thinking of some possible ways to counter this. While their direction is not necessarily going to be an increase in content for specific levels (ex: more battlefields for level 10 etc.), they will continue to pay special attention to ways that players can get through the lower levels at a good pace.

It's not hard, really.

Raise entry requirements for Abyssea zones to level 70+.

There's no reason to have it at lvl 30, period. Raise entry requirements, people start partying again (shock!), game not so broken anymore :/

Lvl 30 entry never made any sense anywho.

:D

Rambus

04-17-2011, 11:25 PM

It's not hard, really.

Raise entry requirements for Abyssea zones to level 70+.

There's no reason to have it at lvl 30, period. Raise entry requirements, people start partying again (shock!), game not so broken anymore :/

Lvl 30 entry never made any sense anywho.

:D

yeah I said that before, the only thing I fear with doing that is the economy, it is already damaged to hell and I do not think that will repair it. in other words how do you fix the lack of lower level gear?

kingfury

04-17-2011, 11:46 PM

yeah I said that before, the only thing I fear with doing that is the economy, it is already damaged to hell and I do not think that will repair it. in other words how do you fix the lack of lower level gear?
-----------------
I say offer low lvl "Rare" gear from the Trial of the Magians that can be sold on the AH until they reach a certain level. These would be in demand economy wise for folks that don't want to do the trials but want decent low level gear quickly. There could be trials based on each armor slot (Head, Body, Hands, Legs, and Feet). Gear that could grow with your character in both stats as well as appearance as you grow in level would be interesting to see. I'm guessing this type of gear could start from lvl 1 and have very simple trials that correspond to the difficulty of a lvl one character (ex. kill 10 Mandies=upgrade, kill 12 bee's=upgrade, etc.). The Devs would have to either position Trial Moogles in low lvl city areas, or allow players to trade gear to new trial books in the low area fields.

Taheenaa

04-18-2011, 05:32 AM

I think fixing what broke (ruined) the entire game in the first place will fix a lot of problems.

By not allowing people in to Abyssea before level 70 would have a trickle down effect just as much as it did when Abyssea (at level 30 entry) was initially implemented.

People have no reason to gear their low level jobs like they used to 5 years ago. Or even 1 year ago. In turn, crafters have no one to sell to because no one has the need to buy low level gear anymore, no one is partying. If the entry requirement is raised to level 70+, people will have to party again. If you have to party, you're gonna have to gear up.

If people have to start partying again, you'll then see the market pick back up again on items such as crystals, gear and weapons. Since Abyssea came along, more often than not, when you're fixin' to buy some crystals there's either usually very minimal stacks to 0 stacks up on AH.

People would start Campaigning again. At least until level 70 (if that were the
entry to Abyssea requirement.)

I can't imagine being a brand new player to FFXI in it's current state. There's no way I'd wanna stick around if I couldn't find party's, gear or just about anything really that you need to play the game. Can't be very fun or enjoyable for the new player's. :(
...the list goes on...

Just by adjusting one simple entry requirement level, it will have mass effects on the game.

Abyssea (at it's current level 30 requirement) has ruined many aspects of the game, that most of us had come to love and enjoy.

There's no way to deny that.

Many of these aspects were the main reason why a lot of us long time players preferred
FFXI over many of the other no-brain-required MMO's in the world.

Adjusting the entry requirement to Abyssea to level 70+ only won't, by any means, fix every single thing broken in FFXI. But it sure as hell will fix many of the things that Abyssea broke on it's own to begin with.

Saefinn

04-18-2011, 06:05 AM

I think what we need is for 1-74 to be more interesting and for people to not have an incentive to leech from 30 to 75. I think leeching is too much of a short cut, I can understand that not everybody wants to grind, but how many of us play an RPG with our levels maxed out? Usually you play the game AS you level up, not after. Obviously, you can do missions as you level up, but it's easier to do them after you've levelled, especially with the level caps dropped, which I can understand because there's fewer people interested in teaming up, therefore you're likely to be left to solo stuff or find a friend to help out. Perhaps have a 30-75 event that people can get exp, gil and gear that's enjoyable to participate in. There's MMM for exp, and that can be great, but you're not really doing much - just killing mob after mob and the incentive for it is exp. Also, if the economy's going to be crap for people in the lower levels who aren't leeching Aby and getting loads of Cruor as well, then why not level the playing field and reward people for participating in lower level events?

So in turn - people are levelling up, getting gil and gear, as well as enjoying the process. The reason, as far as I can see, for Aby leeches is that people aren't interested by the levelling process between 30 and 75 - either because it's not that attractive or they've just done it all before (or the third, they're lazy), there's no reason why SE can't spruce it up a bit.

Karbuncle

04-18-2011, 06:14 AM

Rambus

04-18-2011, 06:32 AM

Karbuncle

04-18-2011, 07:01 AM

This is the other problem with abyssea. Even if they change the cap today to 70 people will still level a lot less because people do not have anything to level because abyssea did it too fast. I had 19 75s cap exp on all before abyssea, it is not that hard to know what to look for to make efficient parties. The biggest issue was trying to show low level parties could rival merit rate exp lol. bring on the time machines and never make abyssea 30, im sure ill be right.

like the other person said here I think abyssea has made it a lot harder for someone new to get into the game.

I agree in that, I will not deny Abyssea has made some things harder for new players, But you missed my point.

If Abyssea never happened, Those people who now have 8 90 jobs because they could abyssea burn, Would likely only have the 2 level 90 jobs they originally liked.

I'll make an example as i know that doesn't sound right.

Basically, When ~80 Cap was introduced, I had 6 level 75 jobs. When i had to "Exp the old way" i told myself "Goodbye PLD, SMN, and NIN, and hello THF, WAR, and MNK". and that was my plan. but since Abyssea made exp simpler, I decided to Level all my jobs to 90 (that i have). If not for Abyssea, I simply would not have leveled them.

Many people share this opinion. Abyssea is not robbing you of New players, Its allowing people to level new jobs they would not have leveled without it being so easy. So you gained/lost nothing for the most part. I won't say this is true for every single player, but i will bet its true for the majority. it seems different here cause those who do level like i just claimed, Generally don't complain to a forum about it.

The "lack of Low-Level Exp parties" (Which BTW i still haven't noticed?), Is more likely due to the games age, and less likely due to abyssea. I won't say abyssea isn't entirely lacking fault, but its much less of an Influence then people are leading it on to be.

I'm only trying to say, If Abyssea was capped to 70+, It would do significantly less for low level players than you people all seem to think.

Rambus

04-18-2011, 07:10 AM

I agree in that, I will not deny Abyssea has made some things harder for new players, But you missed my point.

If Abyssea never happened, Those people who now have 8 90 jobs because they could abyssea burn, Would likely only have the 2 level 90 jobs they originally liked.

I'll make an example as i know that doesn't sound right.

Basically, When ~80 Cap was introduced, I had 6 level 75 jobs. When i had to "Exp the old way" i told myself "Goodbye PLD, SMN, and NIN, and hello THF, WAR, and MNK". and that was my plan. but since Abyssea made exp simpler, I decided to Level all my jobs to 90 (that i have). If not for Abyssea, I simply would not have leveled them.

Many people share this opinion. Abyssea is not robbing you of New players, Its allowing people to level new jobs they would not have leveled without it being so easy. So you gained/lost nothing for the most part. I won't say this is true for every single player, but i will bet its true for the majority. it seems different here cause those who do level like i just claimed, Generally don't complain to a forum about it.

The "lack of Low-Level Exp parties" (Which BTW i still haven't noticed?), Is more likely due to the games age, and less likely due to abyssea. I won't say abyssea isn't entirely lacking fault, but its much less of an Influence then people are leading it on to be.

I'm only trying to say, If Abyssea was capped to 70+, It would do significantly less for low level players than you people all seem to think.

if abyssea was 70+ how would that change your 90 count?

if abyssea was 70+ people would level sync more meaning the old players would interact with new players more.

Zyeriis

04-18-2011, 07:53 AM

I will say this, I had four lvl75s pre-abyssea: COR(geared to an extreme main), SAM (1st job to 75), DRG, and PLD (original main job).

Pre-abyssea, I would have never leveled ninja, cause it was a horrible waste of money, and PLD was a better tank. Now? Third job to 90 was Ninja, fourth was COR. Guess what job hasn't left 75 yet? PLD. NIN has essentially become my primary job, aside from SAM that I use once and awhile. My ridiculous COR gear gathers dust as it gets no air time, and I've forgotten about my DRG(even if it's 90).

This, however, is off-topic. 1-30 is mostly what needs "content".

If you don't understand why the level minimum for abyssea is 30, I don't know how to help you. A level 30 can do NOTHING in abyssea. It was put that low for the sake of exp leeching them to the top, by SE. They knew what they were doing. Neither of us have to agree (with SE) with the effect it caused (gimps and what have you) as something that was good for the game but that doesn't change that abyssea is working as intended: an absurdly easy way to get exp, regardless of level, with little to no effort.

Edit: Let us not forget that there is a whole slew of people who have every job at 90 now thanks to abyssea. If the dev team announced they were going to change the minimum level to 70, you'd see a rush of people partying to get all 20 jobs to at least level 70 through abyssea. Then, when such an update comes around, partying outside of abyssea, will be even more dead than it was before, and new players won't be able to get to 70, to abyssea burn. Everyone else will have 70s+ and only use abyssea to get them to 90, because they wouldn't be "leeching" anymore.

Karbuncle

04-18-2011, 07:56 AM

if abyssea was 70+ how would that change your 90 count?

if abyssea was 70+ people would level sync more meaning the old players would interact with new players more.

You're really Missing Key parts of my Topic.

A lot of people who had Sub jobs around level ~37~49 Decided to take those to 90 only because Abyssea made it so easy. Those players would have kept those jobs at level 37~49 if it wasn't for Abyssea being So easy to level a new job

I don't know how to explain it better. If It hadn't been for How Simple Abyssea makes Exp, I would have never taken up DRK, BST, RDM, PLD, NIN, DRG, or BRD. and now I'm leveing PUP too. Old way and Abyssea way, Whichever I get invited too.

There are many others like me who would simply not have leveled any new jobs if not for how easy Abyssea Made it. I'm only saying, Making Abyssea 70+ Right now, Would have a much smaller impact than people seem to think.

Limiting Abyssea to 70+ Isn't suddenly going to make invites rain from the heavens, It'll barely impact it at all. Cause those people who would think "I'll level XX job cause Abyssea makes it easy!" will now think "Fk it, I don't wanna grind."

Rambus

04-18-2011, 08:51 AM

You're really Missing Key parts of my Topic.

A lot of people who had Sub jobs around level ~37~49 Decided to take those to 90 only because Abyssea made it so easy. Those players would have kept those jobs at level 37~49 if it wasn't for Abyssea being So easy to level a new job

I don't know how to explain it better. If It hadn't been for How Simple Abyssea makes Exp, I would have never taken up DRK, BST, RDM, PLD, NIN, DRG, or BRD. and now I'm leveing PUP too. Old way and Abyssea way, Whichever I get invited too.

There are many others like me who would simply not have leveled any new jobs if not for how easy Abyssea Made it. I'm only saying, Making Abyssea 70+ Right now, Would have a much smaller impact than people seem to think.

Limiting Abyssea to 70+ Isn't suddenly going to make invites rain from the heavens, It'll barely impact it at all. Cause those people who would think "I'll level XX job cause Abyssea makes it easy!" will now think "Fk it, I don't wanna grind."

Fine ill be blunt, most people that did that have no business leveling jobs like that, I met them in abyssea, like the blus that only had the first 20 spells " i level this job cuz i want to spend merits". Full time nuking in dark/light staff, people so gimp they add nothing to the party when called for it.

so....
exp should not be that easy.

clear now? i was trying to be nice about it. go back when i talked about putting effort in making parties, doing so is not hard, when level sync came out. It was easy to make a pt anywhere if you were willing to do so. non ab level sync can get jobs leveled in a week(1-75) if you were efficient. I had like 4 jobs at 75 pre level sync, got maats cap in under 2 months.

Karbuncle

04-18-2011, 09:17 AM

Fine ill be blunt, most people that did that have no business leveling jobs like that, I met them in abyssea, like the blus that only had the first 20 spells " i level this job cuz i want to spend merits"

exp should not be that easy.

clear now? i was trying to be nice about it. go back when i talked about putting effort in making parties, doing so is not hard, when level sync came out. It was easy to make a pt anywhere if you were willing to do so. non ab level sync can get jobs leveled in a week(1-75) if you were efficient.

It doesn't matter how you exp. bad players will be bad 1-75 on Crabs, or 30-90 On buffalo. and Smart people will know how to play their jobs rather it be 1-75 on Crabs, or 30-90 on Buffalo.

That bad Blue who leveled a job to spend merits would be just as bad if he leveled the job 1-75 "Just for merits". Not everyone who levels or leeches through abyssea is some terrible BLU with 2 Spells. But guess what? There were people like that before abyssea too. They're everywhere. You ever seen the Gimp Thread on BG? its just as full now as it was 4 years ago. Because idiots have been here since day 1. In massive numbers, its nothing new.

It doesn't matter if Abyssea was Capped at 70. Because That isn't suddenly going to make more people pick up FFXI, and it won't make any more current players pick up new jobs, If anything, It'll Lower the players leveling new jobs. You will essentially shoot yourself in the foot, and it certainly isn't going to suddenly raise the base IQ of the population. It simply will not make as big of an impact as people seem to believe.

I still join exp parties 10~50 where people leave without repping themselves, I also join those parties with people who afk randomly without saying a word. This isn't Abyssea-Exclusive, Its been happening for years. Its everywhere.

I would know, I've leveled a total of 15 jobs pre-abyssea to Maat's cap level, 6 of them to 75, But A lot of the jobs i had at level 90 today would not be level 90 if i couldn't have done abyssea. Before Abyssea Exp was "Discovered" I had only plans to take up ~3 of my 6 current 75 jobs. After Abyssea i now have 12 Level 90 jobs, I plan on leveling more cause I like experiencing the game from as many points of view as possible.

because, I will bet my character I'm better, In Knowledge of game Mechanics, Basic party-Etiquette, Basic party-Functions, and in Gear than 95% of the people who act like Abyssea ruined FFXI.

For every "Horrible sin of god" player the typical "ABYSSEA RUINED TEH GAME" player scape-goats their argument on, There is a hundred of us normal, Intelligent, good players who leveled the same way because of what abyssea has offered us. thats my point.

Players are currently given a choice, We should keep it this way. because punishing an entire player-base because a few bad players are ruining your exp party is not the solution to the problem. We should always have our choices.

Rambus

04-18-2011, 09:20 AM

Karbuncle

04-18-2011, 09:32 AM

not saying there was never gimp players in old days, just now it is encouraged to do so meaning the population is higher.

my point is if people actually put effort in making exp parties like they do for abyssea drops people would mingle witn newer players more ( level sync) so again i think you are missing my point.

that is why I like what the rep said in this thread, if there was actually stuff to do as you level (wow dungeon example i gave many time) a lot of problems are solved. ( if exp rate can compare to abyssea, or lower exp rate for lower level player in abyssea, so people can actually have fun)

I see.

Well i think the Solution would be to add more low level content, not Nerf Abyssea to 70+. So i can absolutely agree with you on that.

If people have incentive to Experience the game 1~75 Old way, They will. However, I also think you kinda underestimate how fast outside Exp is now lol.

I went from 54-58 in a single E.Ronf(S) party on My PUP about ~1/2hours. The guy who was our Syncee Leveled up like every 15 minutes. It was insane.

Regardless, That aside, I feel if we want a solution to this, Its more content, Not limiting Content. Thats my opinion.

Rambus

04-18-2011, 12:48 PM

I do not know how SE can do it past mimicing wow's system (make ex drops for lower level people) while gaining exp in said areas ( random dungons) then you have to make abyssea 70+ so people will do it more.

if you don't the few people that still want to level something now will most likey leech it and does not fix the issue having old players mingle with newer players ( part of the reason it is so hard to get new people in the game)

Kuwabaraone

04-18-2011, 12:58 PM

Personally, Low Level is between 1-30, as you are now learning the basics of the job of choice. 31-60 will get you the better feel of that job and will give you a rock-solid idea of how it is to be played. After 60 is just icing on the cake, depending on the situation. If anything, the low levels are fine as they are. But would probably stand for a bit of better enemy dispersal. I practically grew up in the Valkurm Dunes, so I missed out on the other zones as potential training grounds. Thanks to Fields, I'm relearning jobs I hadn't bothered leveling in places I wouldn't expect. Also increasing Manuals in these zones would help too. Make it a little easier to find them, if they so choose. The REAL concern is the mid-range, 31-60. That's where a lot of new adventurers lose interest fast (Grind Burnout) and just plateau at that job. Leveling is insane at 1-30 and 61-(current)Cap, but the middleground isn't getting much love. We should definitely see to tweaking that SquareEnix. :)

KB1

Xilk

04-18-2011, 02:34 PM

The drag and slow down in leveling a new character doesn't seem to kick in until about level 60 from what I've seen.

You'll notice a gap in the FoV here, as well as the absence of any exp parties. There is plenty of content for all those levels, what there isn't, is plenty of PLAYERS at those levels.

The content in this game is designed for parties at a certain level. Players have long gotten thru content low-man by simply being a much higher level than the content was designed for. Its not a lack of content, its a lack of players in those levels.

It is very understandable for a game of FFXI's age. The only rut I see is really in the low 60's. There is a very noticeable slowdown in exp (this was true before AND after the recent exp change).

Frankly, Olor, There are several viable solo camps for you as a bst where you can still exp at a good pace. However, I would have no problem w/ taking you to abyssea if we were in the same ls. I'm reasonably decked out for gear, atma and abyssite. There are still several items for me to get, but.. really not very much.

We often have calls in our ls where a member is working on another job, or trial or something. We invite anyone in ls to come leech as whatever they want. Depending on job, a single or duo can leech a full alliance up. its not as fast as having more DD, but any 2 level 90's w/ good atma can get leeches up at a good pace. Its a nice way to get support jobs up w/out having to gear them. I wouldn't want to for a job I played seriously, but I've no intention of taking rdm, nin, sch, others... to max level. I just want the support job options available.

Frankly, I always thought a party level-synced at 63 could do just fine in a visions zone. Player's aren't up to trying different things though, unless they have to, or there is a BIG carrot at the end.

Saefinn

04-18-2011, 07:18 PM

Many of the people who level jobs today would never have leveled them if it wasn't for how easy Abyssea exp is. so instead of not seeing any low level players because Abyssea, you'll not see any low level players because without Abyssea a lot of people who leveled new jobs won't level any more new jobs since they're now forced to grind it old-style.

I think the "ITS THE EXPOCALYPSE" attitude is kinda funny though. I'm leveling Puppetmaster right now, I won't go into acting like its no problem everywhere, but on Asura i hardly ever wait more than ~1hour/2hour for an Invite. Of the time i use to Solo FoV pages. Its just not as bad as people paint it out.

I might be getting lucky, but on Asura it doesn't feel like the world is ending, and again, I just do not feel the Solution is ever Removing someones right to chose. Right now we have the right to chose Abyssea, or to Chose Old Fashioned exp. And at the very least on Asura, Theres a steady amount doing both.

Sometimes people just need to accept as a game ages, Less and less people level new jobs. The only reason you see a lot of leeches in abyssea is because they can leech in Abyssea. The game is old, stop blamming Abyssea.

I'm kinda beginning to wish they would cap Abyssea to 70 just so when they do, it'll prove my point.

That's an interesting one, that people are levelling jobs they wouldn't normally and I think that it's a fair point. As much as I like the idea of Aby being 70+ because I love level 30+ parties and I feel there are fewer as a result (but not dead, I run a few myself and have had invites), but I don't want to take people's choice away from them - I can understand why a person might opt for levelling in Aby, it can get repetitive doing it the long way for every job. Hence my suggestion to spice up the mid levels more. It gives people like me, who don't want to leech more options and offers those who do already leech an incentive not to. I think the real problem is the mid levels aren't interesting enough - or at least, interesting enough to repeat, hence people cut that part out.

As for invites on Asura, I think it depends on your job. Black Mage - I have waited all day before deciding, "bugger it, I'm doing my own party" (at the point where I got bored of playing on my DS). Corsair on the other hand, I got it from level 1 to 57 in a week because I got invites very quickly - we had one awesome party from Qufim to Yhoator Jungle because we had a Bard and a Corsair, 4 DDs and a PL and the exp was epic.

I find that I get people inviting me as SCH70 quite quickly, even though I'm not looking to join an Aby party (or an exp party for that matter). I did SCH from level 50 to 70 in Aby because people were that badly in need for healers. Whilst I was not the perfect healer, it worked. It kind of leaves me to assume that there aren't many healers LFP for Aby?

Eldelphia

04-18-2011, 08:00 PM

Cap the entry point to Abyssea at around 50. Allows people to get their capped subjobs done and swells the lowlevel xp pool. You could even argue for level 60, so not nullifying af etc. The problem with all the 'leeching' is that there are too many people who need DNC/NIN/WAR/SCH/WHM subjobs done - hell almost everyone needs 1-2 of those. Let them xp to 50 or 60 with FoV etc and then let them into Abyssea.

Abyssea encourages greed (but admittedly atma make it possible to low man most stuff) and poorly skilled players. Some people take the time to skill up and research the jobs they're playing with, others don't. As a group we insist on people having their quested WSNM weaponskills and all proc WS and spells so that slows it down a bit. Of course there were always people who can't or don't play the game to elite levels and that's fine but we're not talking about elitism here. I respect someone who levels fast but then works out they need skill/practice/gear to use those jobs effectively. Unfortunately Abyssea gives us way too much leeway... I want some seriously challenging, non-atma supported content. At that point, a lot of those underskilled, clueless, loot-grabbing jobs will suddenly go back into the closet.

Ordoric

04-18-2011, 08:49 PM

those that leach their way 30-70+ only hurt them selves un less they are exceptionaly gifted and adept. but it seams like its 2 x the work sitting leaching then going and skilling up seams pointless to me. i have a 68 sam and i wont enter abby much less on any other low job

Glamdring

04-19-2011, 01:20 AM

I leeched my war sub to 49 and my pup from 50-60 in 1 party, then quit the party to do a solo skill-up on pup. War I intend strictly as a sub for pup for the foreseeable future so skill wasn't a particular worry, getting to work on my pup was. I leeched pup to 60 quite frankly for the inventory space; I've done my full pup AF so leeching to wear I can use all of it means I can put it back with the armor storer NPCs when I'm on one of my 4 90 mains. However, I will not be taking my pup back into Abyssea until I recap my HTH and my pup's magic (and hopefully ranged) skill. I despise being useless in anything, but without skill you just are. While leeching, I used the WHM auto, because he could at least do some skilling (fyi, a 50 auto generally skills about 1/3 of the way to cap at each level at the rate you level doing dominion at 50ish).

I so wish more players understood that it is SKILL, not level, gear or whatever that makes you good in this game. That was why I made the comment about getting my Auto's ranged skill up. I haven't had a chance to use sharpshot now in 30 levels and the skill gap shows it. If I don't get that closed by the time I reach Aby levels he'll simply miss 90+% of his shots making skill-up all but impossible in Abyssea. Even with great Atma the fundamental problem will still exist.