BST adjustment did not address the problem, Devs please read

[Jile]

First, I do appreciate that you attempted to adjust the crippled ja range.

The adjustment did not fix the randomness our ja's are experiencing.

An example of the issue I experienced last night: I went to my normal butterfly camp in outer raz and sent my pet after three mobs, on the third one I was standing roughly 5 yalms from my pet and it was unable to act as its focus had changed between the three mobs, I pressed the ja macro several more times while my pets attention bounced around and practically stood on my pets head when finally the aoe move went off.

Another example: I popped the unity weapon in qufim to test and while I could stand roughly 5 yalms directly behind my pet and ja's worked if I was hitting it and standing more than a 90 degree angle from my pets face I would be out of range... Standing behind many mobs is needed and right now that's not working. This is a relatively small mob, and it isn't working, this can't possibly be working as intended.

It shouldn't be hit or miss when these ja's work.

If a dev is having a hard time understanding why this is a problem, have one join me for a while at a pet cp camp or simple unm fight, 5min later they would fully understand why the variable distance is horrendous and should be made back the way it was before distance was broken, asap.

I don't care if the top couple BST in the game are happy with the change as it somehow hasn't negatively impacted them, the rest of us BST main are livid.

Please restore our playstyle so we can enjoy the last stage of the game.

Please, please, lets not turn this into 300 posts of bickering. I frankly just want a community reps to reply acknowledging the devs are reviewing this further.

[Arenegeth]

Just so the Devs know, the are people like me who have already quit the game because of this and are not coming back unless you fix it.

So if you have no plans of ever fixing it (honestly if you don't understand the problem then nothing more needs to be said) let us know so we can move on and stop checking here for news.

That is all.

[Olor]

I haven't played bst since the change. I am so heartbroken. Please fix my favourite job.

[dasva]

Yeah my "pet" ls just doesn't use bst anymore. smn and pup for pet strats or just do the pld + mbing like everyone else does for easy moding stuff. Well for events... still use bst to cleave jp for other people sometimes though we still do pup + smn mbing apex too

[Midnightgirl]

Dev's Please fix beastmaster. I use to just love this job so much. I wish that I could play BST the way I use to be able to do. It was so much more fun to do. You destroyed a great job. I go and try to do a pet move and my pet goes and follows the mob that is after my trust and the move I tried to do was not able to do it. Because I was to far away. You have messed up a job that I loved to play. Please fix this job!!! I miss having fun playing FFXI. Can you please give us back our distances for pets!! I just want to have fun playing with a job that I enjoy.

[Gwydion]

I'm also experiencing inconsistent situations where pet abilities are "out of range" and do not activate. I have started to switch between <me> and <pet>, which causes me to be less efficient in battle as I fumble through different targets in order for my pet to execute a Ready move.

This problem never existed when range was 20 yalms, as it has been forever.

Can we just go back to the way it was? I simply cannot play Beastmaster like this.

[Ataraxia]

YES! all the Taru, Hume, Elvaan, Galka and Mithra show your support even if you don't like BST. BST is tie to the pet and where ever the pet go the BST have to follow. In the end the one that dies to the NM AOE is usually not pet but it's the BST. NM charm AOE is the biggest threat to BST. We all have try out this update and many people are still unhappy.



Akihiko Matsui Do you know what job is having more fun playing FFXI than any other job right now? Black Mage, Red Mage, White Mage, Summoner and Scholar. Those job can stay really far away and do damage without any risk. No one like to be close to pet when using Spur and Reward. Since Dawn Mulsum can be use very far away and safe than why can't spur and reward be the same? I do not like to see people Quit FFXI over this. Please do your best to fix this BST issue and make more adjustment to PUP and WAR since no one wants those job for event. We are waiting for your answer... =)

[Rubicant82]

My LS has several BST that we do end game events with, and none of them are having issues being ~15 yalms away from the target with the pet between them and NM using abilities.
They are still ripping the NMs apart, sure they take some dmg, but they are still doing everything they want to do and not letting the nerf stop them. So may-hap the whole situation is being blown out of proportion.

[NimrodXI]

Played and enjoyed BST since 2006, iF Dev want to do something about bst ,should nerf the pets not the master.
That was a total mistake and Im also leaving the game once the free pass end.

[Jile]

My LS has several BST that we do end game events with, and none of them are having issues being ~15 yalms away from the target with the pet between them and NM using abilities.


I'm sorry but 15 yalms is not happening, its about 33% less at best positioning.

At best positioning you can be at most 7 yalms from your pet when directly behind the pet and the pet is perhaps 3 yalms from the mob so.... If you are directly behind your pet you might be 10 yalms max from the mob.

If the master needs to avoid conial actions like charm, if you stand more than 90 degrees from the face of the mob no ja's work.

This needs fixed. Please, can we get a community rep to reply that this is being reviewed as the "fix" changed nothing with the issues we're having.

[Grekumah]

As we’ve mentioned before, the development team has no plans to change the range at which beastmasters can use commands. As Matsui previously stated, we want beastmasters to be close range battle jobs and bear the risk of taking damage in the front line. This change was made, because players were using beastmaster to attack from the back line, and this was against what the development team had intended for beastmaster.

[kylani]

As we’ve mentioned before, the development team has no plans to change the range at which beastmasters can use commands. As Matsui previously stated, we want beastmasters to be close range battle jobs and bear the risk of taking damage in the front line. This change was made, because players were using beastmaster to attack from the back line, and this was against what the development team had intended for beastmaster.

It has been this way for 12 years. Way to change it right before development ends. I don't care if I have to melee, but meleeing WITH my pet and commands not working is just wrong.

I'm done. I'll never invest in a SE game again.

[Jile]

As we’ve mentioned before, the development team has no plans to change the range at which beastmasters can use commands. As Matsui previously stated, we want beastmasters to be close range battle jobs and bear the risk of taking damage in the front line. This change was made, because players were using beastmaster to attack from the back line, and this was against what the development team had intended for beastmaster.

Thank you for replying. It's a shame many people will quit ffxi with your reply though. As with others, this decision (if unrepaired) has ensured this will be my last SE game.

Does the development team also understand our job abilities do not function while fighting behind and beside mobs? This surely isn't working as intended! If this is working as intended, it's tantamount to saying if someone goes behind or beside a mob they should be forced to auto disengage. Utterly disappointing.

[Ataraxia]

There you have it people. I tried my best to help the BST community even thought my favorite job are THF and DNC but no one wants a DNC because it's a joke but people would love THF for their Treasure Hunter. We tried our best to save the legendary BST and Matsui disagree with BST range.

I find it sad because why didn't Matsui do this a long long time ago if BST was such a problem? Yet the Community Team said it was against what the development team had intended for Beastmaster but it was them that created it in the first place and it went on for years. No one care about BST and it's a job forever alone. BST can't heal themselves which is why the way you play BST is to run away, heal pet, and keep distance. The only time when a BST can fight is against a weaker NM but against a strong NM like S3 beastmaster cannot fight and they will have a accuracy issue so a beastmaster must focus all the accuracy on PET. SMN and PUP was able to keep distance and can do Damage far away and no one complain. =/

I guess it's time to band wagon BLM, SCH, SMN and PUP but i still think SCH is the number 1 rank best job in the game if one was to master the job points and make a Mythic Staff. Hang in their everyone BST is still a powerful job if you master job points. It just more annoying to play because you gonna need the help of a white mage to watch over you. BST will continue to make other DD cry like a baby if you still enjoy playing BST than continue on. =)

Mr. Tanaka we the community of FFXI will forever miss you and you always be number 1 director because it was you who created BST to be like that.

[Midnightgirl]

As we’ve mentioned before, the development team has no plans to change the range at which beastmasters can use commands. As Matsui previously stated, we want beastmasters to be close range battle jobs and bear the risk of taking damage in the front line. This change was made, because players were using beastmaster to attack from the back line, and this was against what the development team had intended for beastmaster.

Even when we are fighting with our pets on the mob. You can not do your moves because you are to far away from your pet. Like for me I am fighting the mob from the back and my pet is in the front. And It tells me that I am to far away to do a job ability or to use my pet food. Then when a mob that aggro and does a aoe's it hits your pet and your pet goes after the mob that aoe. It makes it hard for you to use your pet move's. It is so messed up that your not going to help bst out with this problem.

[NimrodXI]

Oh ! Really sad to hear the decision of developers. Ill particularly change mind, instead of waiting for the free pass to end, ill quit now.

[Arenegeth]

As we’ve mentioned before, the development team has no plans to change the range at which beastmasters can use commands. As Matsui previously stated, we want beastmasters to be close range battle jobs and bear the risk of taking damage in the front line. This change was made, because players were using beastmaster to attack from the back line, and this was against what the development team had intended for beastmaster.

Thank you. Sincerely.

I have a better use for my $50 per month (three accounts plus a ton of storage mules) but I was too invested in my character to let go, despite numerous issues I chronically had with your game design decisions. Now I can move on.

No hard feelings though, good luck to the development team with whatever they will end up working on next.

And for the BST's still sticking around, good luck to you too.

[dasva]

As we’ve mentioned before, the development team has no plans to change the range at which beastmasters can use commands. As Matsui previously stated, we want beastmasters to be close range battle jobs and bear the risk of taking damage in the front line. This change was made, because players were using beastmaster to attack from the back line, and this was against what the development team had intended for beastmaster.

And as everyone else has mentioned the changes you have made have made it so that even fighting on the front lines it's still messing up. You've only stopped bst from fighting back line by making most stop playing the job

[Zuidar]

As we’ve mentioned before, the development team has no plans to change the range at which beastmasters can use commands. As Matsui previously stated, we want beastmasters to be close range battle jobs and bear the risk of taking damage in the front line. This change was made, because players were using beastmaster to attack from the back line, and this was against what the development team had intended for beastmaster.

But even then the Beastmaster is chained to their pet, and this change has it's flaws with where the BST has to get in such a position where even in melee range they won't be able to dish out commands.

There should be some adjustments that should address this flaw for this

[Gwydion]

Today, I will do my talking with my wallet. I won't be buying another Square Enix game and cancelled my pre-order for Final Fantasy XV.

[Jile]

Like others, we've been spending $50/mo for over a decade. We're so deeply invested in the game that SE will get a few more payments for our three accounts and mules while we wrap up our concluding goals and then like others we will now also refuse to buy any future SE game.

Breaking a job, ignoring feedback - they're literally pushing us out the door. Weird way to run a business.

[Angemon]

Geeze being a little extreme aren't you people? BST can still do the SAME stuff they did before except now they are forced to run into danger. Yes its a nerf but the job still functions the same and people still want BST for everything. I think you are being a little extreme here.

[Moncho23]

Geeze being a little extreme aren't you people? BST can still do the SAME stuff they did before except now they are forced to run into danger. Yes its a nerf but the job still functions the same and people still want BST for everything. I think you are being a little extreme here.

Sure, I could just switch jobs like many others who only plays a job when is needed forevents, I could also just take whatever SE and the dev teams give us an move on , or I can Also protest and quit the game... Im also a BST and today is my last day farewell FFXI, was nice and fun .

[Gwydion]

Geeze being a little extreme aren't you people? BST can still do the SAME stuff they did before except now they are forced to run into danger. Yes its a nerf but the job still functions the same and people still want BST for everything. I think you are being a little extreme here.

I think the issue, as it stands today, is the lack of completeness for Beastmaster being a viable front-line job. As others have stated, Beastmaster's native job traits, abilities and skills (Shield=300) just doesn't allow the player to defend him/herself when fighting within 7 yalms of the monster.

To make matters worse, the randomness with which pet abilities execute (random 'out of range' messages which vary by monster size), makes playing Beastmaster an incredibly frustrating experience.

In the past, SE has acknowledged the need for changes to Beastmaster. (For example it took about 12-18 months after Seekers of Adoulin was released for Beastmasters to get iLvl Pets (HeraldHenry) and Ready move reforms). Yes, it took a very long time but I was grateful for SE hearing our concerns and making those changes.

However, today, I feel as if spending the past decade playing Beastmaster....seem....like a huge waste of time (and money). :(

[Leonardus]

As we’ve mentioned before, the development team has no plans to change the range at which beastmasters can use commands. As Matsui previously stated, we want beastmasters to be close range battle jobs and bear the risk of taking damage in the front line. This change was made, because players were using beastmaster to attack from the back line, and this was against what the development team had intended for beastmaster.

Your players were probably doing this because you made the charge timer too short while also -significantly- boosting the damage of Ready moves.

I'd say you adjusted too much at once in our favor, but I suspect this was the plan all along (Long before the players were informed).

Adjusting the 12+ year old range in the final hurrah of the game's life was a really poor, jarring decision. Sorry, Mr. Matsui. I wish I could say something more positive.

Thanks for the recent jug pets. Those are nice.

[Zuidar]

As we’ve mentioned before, the development team has no plans to change the range at which beastmasters can use commands. As Matsui previously stated, we want beastmasters to be close range battle jobs and bear the risk of taking damage in the front line. This change was made, because players were using beastmaster to attack from the back line, and this was against what the development team had intended for beastmaster.


It has been this way for 12 years. Way to change it right before development ends. I don't care if I have to melee, but meleeing WITH my pet and commands not working is just wrong.

I strongly agree with you there Kylani. This is a major flaw that came with the nerf to BST pet range and it should be addressed properly. Even if a BST was meleeing a mob from behind, they could possibly not get a pet command in because they aren't close to the pet. The Dev Team pretty much placed chains with BST onto their pet. So the flaw that came with the nerf seems to be intended too

[Jile]

http://i.imgur.com/3Lfq824.png

Literally "threw" this together since some are not understanding. The white area around the pet is the 7-yalm-and-tighter variable leash we have to be within to use our JA's.

Once you get beside the mob or go behind it JA's are disabled.

Also JA's are inconsistent - they might work, they might not.

This is not an entitlement issue. This is a coder screwed up at SE and they're not willing to look at it, issue.

[Hoshi]

Sorry I'm completely unfamiliar with beastmaster. Is there a reason that you and your pet cannot stand behind the monster while it is held by a tank?

[HopefulNAPlayer]

Sorry I'm completely unfamiliar with beastmaster. Is there a reason that you and your pet cannot stand behind the monster while it is held by a tank?

Yes, Hoshi. The Beastmaster must be within 7 yalms of the pet or the mob in order to execute Ready moves. However, you will still randomly get 'out of range' when trying to execute pet Ready moves depending on the size of the player, the pet or the mob. Aside from it being an incredibly tight restriction, there is a random occurrence of the Ready ability not executing altogether if your pet is not visible on screen.

[Kraggy]

As we’ve mentioned before, the development team has no plans to change the range at which beastmasters can use commands. As Matsui previously stated, we want beastmasters to be close range battle jobs and bear the risk of taking damage in the front line. This change was made, because players were using beastmaster to attack from the back line, and this was against what the development team had intended for beastmaster.
At what point over the last 11+ years did this come to be, it certainly WAS NOT the way the job was created and released!

I guess another sad example of an MMO where the original devs leave and those that come after feel the need to 'improve' the original devs' work and instead simply destroy it.

/golfclap

[shaduf]

SE Team, I appreciate all your hard efforts and developing the game in order to provide an enjoyable balanced game.

I am not a huge fan of BST; However I enjoyed playing as BST from time to time. And For sure it is unique and very interesting style job to play in FFXI.

When I first heard of the new adjustment for the BST I was sad about it, however, after I read the above excuse mentioned by “Grekuma” that “this was against what the development team had intended” it really irritated me. ……. I am not buying it.

We have been playing this game over a decade and after all this time BST backline style shouldn’t not be exited and it was a mistake, and they have just made this adjustment to fix a problem by creating another problem.

SE, if you are so desperately want to change BST style and to see him fighting in the front line, , shouldn’t in return give BST different job abilities and traits that would benefit BST by staying in Front Line anything that will sustain the level of enjoyment for the job.

BST is one of the popular jobs in FFXI, making a vital adjustment for the job should be considered carefully & wisely. The point is as I said earlier, I don’t play BST much and I don’t consider it to me as an important job, however my real life friend find BST as his supreme job, he is so crazy about BST. If incase he left the game I will eventually also stop playing FFXI even though I was not directly affected by BST adjustment.

I am not threating, I am just saying what could happened to me even though I am a non BST player. I am not welling to play FFXI without my friend. And I felt SE should be aware of this.

SE fulfill your dream and do whatever you were intended (over 10 years ago) to do to BST; however, it’s your role also to make the job in the same time enjoyable. Any Adjustments that would keep players to play BST.

[Stompa]

I was in the RoV final battle a few days ago, on my PUP, I joined a shout run and we went 1/1 with PUP and SMN and other jobs.

During the fight, which I spent the whole time hiding in the corner, while my Valoredge tanked the NM, I kept thinking about BST, and how hard it would be to do that fight on BST now. On Pup, I was standing literally the other side of the arena from the mob, spamming my maneuvers, and running into Repair Range, which is thankfully far away from the NM's huge ugly AOE spam. That mob really spams AOE, and big awful horribleness everwhere. As I ran in to use Repair, I kept thinking "wow this would be impossible on Bst now."

Obviously the answer to that is "don't do that fight on Bst, do it on another job." But it is the Last Mission battle, maybe a person wants to finish the storyline on their main job, for the memories. I was lucky because my main is PUP, and I could hide in the corner the whole time.

[Hoshi]

Yes, Hoshi. The Beastmaster must be within 7 yalms of the pet or the mob in order to execute Ready moves. However, you will still randomly get 'out of range' when trying to execute pet Ready moves depending on the size of the player, the pet or the mob. Aside from it being an incredibly tight restriction, there is a random occurrence of the Ready ability not executing altogether if your pet is not visible on screen.

Right, but if you stand within 7 yalms of your pet, directly behind your pet who is directly behind the monster which is being held by a tank or a trust tank, why wouldn't that work? I understand that depending on the size of the mob you may have to be less than 7 yalms from your pet but from the posts here it sounds like bst is unable to position their monster behind the enemy and I am wondering why that is the case?

[Tidis]

I was in the RoV final battle a few days ago, on my PUP, I joined a shout run and we went 1/1 with PUP and SMN and other jobs.

During the fight, which I spent the whole time hiding in the corner, while my Valoredge tanked the NM, I kept thinking about BST, and how hard it would be to do that fight on BST now. On Pup, I was standing literally the other side of the arena from the mob, spamming my maneuvers, and running into Repair Range, which is thankfully far away from the NM's huge ugly AOE spam. That mob really spams AOE, and big awful horribleness everwhere. As I ran in to use Repair, I kept thinking "wow this would be impossible on Bst now."

Obviously the answer to that is "don't do that fight on Bst, do it on another job." But it is the Last Mission battle, maybe a person wants to finish the storyline on their main job, for the memories. I was lucky because my main is PUP, and I could hide in the corner the whole time.

The final fight is a terrible example to use with regards to BST and distance, however I think her attacks are largely conal breath attacks, I dual boxed the final fight with 4 trusts and positioned it so only I was facing the mob and most of the time my trusts didn't take damage, I think there was an AoE move in there but it certainly wasn't constant AoE damage.

[Jile]

Right, but if you stand within 7 yalms of your pet, directly behind your pet who is directly behind the monster which is being held by a tank or a trust tank, why wouldn't that work? I understand that depending on the size of the mob you may have to be less than 7 yalms from your pet but from the posts here it sounds like bst is unable to position their monster behind the enemy and I am wondering why that is the case?

Yes, its possible to be behind the mob with our pets. It's not always possible or prudent to do so especially if we're playing with other people and not just trusts.

An example where we want hate on our pets only: Demolition Squad II. Typically the BST will pull the nm BST to avoid having someone being charmed. We have to fight behind the nm to avoid charm and at present we cant use JA's that far from our pets.

[dasva]

Geeze being a little extreme aren't you people? BST can still do the SAME stuff they did before except now they are forced to run into danger. Yes its a nerf but the job still functions the same and people still want BST for everything. I think you are being a little extreme here.

What game are you playing? All I see are shouts for plds and MBing jobs. I haven't used bst for anything outside of xping or easily soloable content since shortly after the update. Switched to other jobs that are just as safe or safer and do similar dmg or better when started getting wrecked. Only thing that has changed is which gear to retire

[dasva]

Right, but if you stand within 7 yalms of your pet, directly behind your pet who is directly behind the monster which is being held by a tank or a trust tank, why wouldn't that work? I understand that depending on the size of the mob you may have to be less than 7 yalms from your pet but from the posts here it sounds like bst is unable to position their monster behind the enemy and I am wondering why that is the case?

Because it's completely broken. Recently I've been on top of my pet and it still wouldn't fire off because one of the 6 mobs attacking it wasn't in range despite it being as close as it could get but other mobs blocking it's way. Plus if just standing behind the monster is fine for bst then it's fine for real melees so might as well use those instead

[BlackHalo714]

Gonna chime in on this one. Whatever vision the Dev team has of beastmaster now is a illusion. I don't understand 12 years down the road why change the primary functionality of the job. When you first brought out skillchains with pets I was like how cool. I can finally melee with my pet (as you wanted the job to be..) and create skillchains. Then you brought in the the idea of hey lets make it possible to ready moves with only a 10 second timer. That it when the notion of you wanted us to play like summoners came along. You created the ripple of events by giving pets tremendous vitality and power. But what happened to the master? He was succumbed to increasing ilvls of enemies that whiffed all day because all our stats were invested in our pets. I don't know where the bright idea of nerfing the distance to that extreme came from but sorry to say is crap. You had 2 months of feedback from people and you proceeded to sugarcoat the problem by changing a command? Really? If you want us to be a front line job quit chaining us to this worthless fencer trait (since you won't give us shield buffs) Give us the option to go any subjob, give us defense abilities. Give us something besides lets just major nerf this job and reply "We Have No Plans". Do I still play beastmaster yes. I always have but it isn't cool being chained to your pet. Might as well let us mount the things and ride them. Commands might actually work then..

[larrymc]

There are many fights where multiple enemies appear. Lets take dominion as an example. The primary dragon will quite often reposition itself, and our pets will on their own reposition as well, quite often moving out of the tight 7 yalm range. So you trying to hit ready, or reward, and its not working - your not sure what the problem is at first - dominion lag, range, etc. Then with the adds pop out the pet can bounce just about anywhere.

I suspect that a slight adjustment of the range from 7 yalms to 10 yalms would solve nearly all the problems - the master would still be in the fight (this is the stated goal of SE), but the pet has a slightly longer leash to do its thing.

[Stompa]

The final fight is a terrible example to use with regards to BST and distance, however I think her attacks are largely conal breath attacks, I dual boxed the final fight with 4 trusts and positioned it so only I was facing the mob and most of the time my trusts didn't take damage, I think there was an AoE move in there but it certainly wasn't constant AoE damage.

Thanks but your "dual-boxed" was also terrible example to give as a reply, too. In our party of six, the mob was constantly moving to attack different people, and spinning around like Kylie Minogue, which means the conal attacks could randomly happen at any angle, equals 360' AOE. When I ran in to use Repair, the mob would suddenly be facing me, and if I had to run all the way in to use my /ja or /pet then I would have been dead lol.

I wasn't using it as the best example, only the most recent as it occurred two days ago, and at numerous times in the fight I was literally thinking "omg how would I be able to stand next to the mob to use my pet-related commands?"

That fight has been compared to the Lady Lillith fight, because of the circular large-size arena with the little mini platforms around the edge, and also because PUP and SMN were lowmanning that fight years ago, using the kite / hide in corners strategy, a strategy which has also allowed people to lowman the ROV finale.

This is a fight that can be beaten on SMN and PUP, but only because the master can stay far away. Formerly Bst would have been able to, but now cannot, which was the point I was making in my post.

[Vold]

As we’ve mentioned before, the development team has no plans to change the range at which beastmasters can use commands. As Matsui previously stated, we want beastmasters to be close range battle jobs and bear the risk of taking damage in the front line. This change was made, because players were using beastmaster to attack from the back line, and this was against what the development team had intended for beastmaster.
Since BST has been doing this since forever because no dev could be bothered to spend serious time on making a pet job equal to the rest of the game's DD personal, I am forced to reply with the following: So, you're saying you started caring about BST the moment it started to dominate end game content for the first time in 14 years, so in response to all the complaints of 14 year long spoiled non BST players, you crippled BST. Hm. Yeah. That's pretty much in line with what the devs have done to deal with "problem jobs" for 14 years.

But this isn't really about that, now is it? People took this bitter nerf pill, but it's turning out to be a poison pill instead. It sounds like I shouldn't even bother ever touching my BST again if BST mains are finding your adjustments seriously flawed.

[Ulth]

Thanks but your "dual-boxed" was also terrible example to give as a reply, too. In our party of six, the mob was constantly moving to attack different people, and spinning around like Kylie Minogue, which means the conal attacks could randomly happen at any angle, equals 360' AOE. When I ran in to use Repair, the mob would suddenly be facing me, and if I had to run all the way in to use my /ja or /pet then I would have been dead lol.

I wasn't using it as the best example, only the most recent as it occurred two days ago, and at numerous times in the fight I was literally thinking "omg how would I be able to stand next to the mob to use my pet-related commands?"

That fight has been compared to the Lady Lillith fight, because of the circular large-size arena with the little mini platforms around the edge, and also because PUP and SMN were lowmanning that fight years ago, using the kite / hide in corners strategy, a strategy which has also allowed people to lowman the ROV finale.

This is a fight that can be beaten on SMN and PUP, but only because the master can stay far away. Formerly Bst would have been able to, but now cannot, which was the point I was making in my post.

I solo'd it on thf. Wasn't hard. Clear time was 7 something minutes. Used Amchuchu, Selh'teus, Lilisette II, Koru-Moru, and Yoren-Oren. Are you suggesting that bst is less durable than say a thf? because I needed to be in range to use my attacks.

[cebera001]

the main problem with bst is the range as we all agree, but overall the devs dont care about the players in any way, i spent months of building my beast great and spending atleast 100 mill gil on it, they want to make it a frontline job, sure we can adapt if we could survive, but since the PLAYER BASE knows we cant survive, bst will never be asked for a party for end game content, but to be fair i just stopped writing on these forums now, devs do not care or listen to the problems, ive just cancelled my accounts as waiting for fixes that will never happen. good luck to all other bsts playing the game, some say game is ending, personally i think it has got a few good years left in it. all depends if devs start reading forums and listening to suggestions and getting feedback.

[hakrev]

You know I'm getting extremely tired of reading how the development team wants us to play our jobs. Forget that. We use the jobs how we want to, that's the only reason we play and the reason why ffxi has been the most successful final fantasy game. I'm really disappointed that they come on here and say they wont even consider changing something that has had the entire community in an uproar. The Japanese forums have twice as many posts about their hatred of this nerf, so I feel 0% guilty about posting this. Why wont SE just LISTEN for once in their lives BEFORE this junk hits the fan. Instead they over-nerf (after the japanese players have been complaining about the implications of this nerf for a month or so), they ignore the community at large, and release statements of "we have plans for doing nothing because we want to tell you how to have fun in our game...that we never play ourselves and have no idea what's really going on, so we listen to 5 or 6 people who complain about a job being too overpowered. Psh. SE how hard is it to just "BALANCE" the game. Balance would be a 15 yalm range from our 20 yalm range as smn was boosted from 15 to 20 yalms. THAT is balance, this is untested ridiculous nonsense and the community isn't going to just lay down, roll over and ignore you ruining a huge part of the game RIGHT before the end of development. That's garbage and you all know it. Every fan and supporter of ffxi deserves better than this.

The problem with bst was not bst, but YOU SE. The problem was that you keep making nm's so hard that nobody can get near them without getting slaughtered by 10 status ailments from an incurable aura effect. You yourselves unbalanced the game with these monsters. Stand up and tell the truth, you caused the problem SE and you all know it. You were just upset that there was the tiniest of loopholes in your stupid idea, so you nerfed the bsts into oblivion. Well forget that >.> Get a clue SE and stop throwing around dumb nonsense like "We're not going to fix anything, there's nothing wrong because we say nothing is wrong. Get it line maggots!" It's insulting and we are tired of being told there is no problem when we all feel there IS a problem.

Sorry for being super blunt but I think I speak for say....80-90% of the community. We are unhappy with this. Change it. Fix your "Fix." It's unnecessary and pointless to change a job's game-play at the very end of the game's life, except to irritate everyone. Keep alienating your customers and you'll keep making less money, simple as that. There are other game companies out there that actually DO listen to the feedback of their players and are making better games than you. When was the last time you did a poll about features we'd like to have? I can't even remember and that's because you really don't care about what we all have to say hence why most of the dev posts recently have been "We have no plans..."

Oh and before someone comes talking about ffxiv, that was all about a PR stunt to try to save the company from an apocalyptic catastrophe that was the original ffxiv. They didn't fix it out of some loyalty to the fans. >.> Gladly their developer listened to the players and guess what, ffxiv is getting more successful everyday (even though I personally don't care for it myself). The developer himself did that NOT SE. Face the facts, you have the worst support team (it takes an average of 6 months to get them to fix an account problem on ffxi or ffxiv). They listen to nobody, players be darned. And they want us to continue to pay for a server with no new content at the same price as ever. I could list the rest of the annoying things about SE, but honestly I feel like i'm throwing diamonds into a black hole by trying to tell them what's wrong. They'll never get it, cuz they really don't care at all. The problems with SE run so much deeper than simply ignoring their players, but they have got go fix this fundamental problem, it's killing their company and frankly I love SE too much for it's past successes to watch it fail without saying something.

[HopefulNAPlayer]

The more I think about what BST needs to be a front-line job (better skills, abilities and job traits), I just realized:

That's not good enough. Our pet abilities still do not execute in a reliable and repeatable fashion. The randomness with which we get "out range", due to the size of the player, the monster or the pet....makes the use ready moves very unpredictable.

Could you imagine if Cure spells had the same problem? Or if Cure spells could randomly miss a target? ...I'd never play WHM if that were the case.

[Jile]

The only way a BST will even draw their axes would be if we can be useful doing so. We cant get use of those fencer traits unless there is a shield that we could fulltime in the slot without macroing the Abyssea axe in every 10 seconds. Without a static piece in offhand we'll never have enough tp to ws because our pets damage is more important than ours.

For BST to function as frontline SE must:
1) Make JA's work within 15 yalms from the perimeter of the mob we're fighting.
2) Make a shield with stats similar to arktoi with ready-5 on it so we can stop using the abyssea axe.
3) Add job traits that would have been added naturally if the job had originally been intended to frontline
4) Play BST themselves before pushing out broken Nerfs. The JA's are inconsistent and must be fixed!
5) Listen to their paying customers. We've paid thousands of dollars over the years in fees to access ffxi and are tired of being disregarded.
6) Gear needs revamped with mutual focus in mind! Right now it is simply is not possible to be useful during combat when our pets are. It's not possible. We need either old gear adjusted with that in mind or new gear added if this brand new direction for BST is intended to be legitimate and not some impossible joke.

You want us frontline? Then bring it! Give us traits and gear to back that blasphemy up of fix our jobs and leave us alone.

I love this game. I love BST.

Keep me as a customer, please, keep taking my money. The only requirement is that you do your job.

[Tidis]

SE could just cap ready reduction to 15 seconds so you have no reason to use the axe.

[BlackHalo714]

The only way a BST will even draw their axes would be if we can be useful doing so. We cant get use of those fencer traits unless there is a shield that we could fulltime in the slot without macroing the Abyssea axe in every 10 seconds. Without a static piece in offhand we'll never have enough tp to ws because our pets damage is more important than ours.

For BST to function as frontline SE must:
1) Make JA's work within 15 yalms from the perimeter of the mob we're fighting.
2) Make a shield with stats similar to arktoi with ready-5 on it so we can stop using the abyssea axe.
3) Add job traits that would have been added naturally if the job had originally been intended to frontline
4) Play BST themselves before pushing out broken Nerfs. The JA's are inconsistent and must be fixed!
5) Listen to their paying customers. We've paid thousands of dollars over the years in fees to access ffxi and are tired of being disregarded.
6) Gear needs revamped with mutual focus in mind! Right now it is simply is not possible to be useful during combat when our pets are. It's not possible. We need either old gear adjusted with that in mind or new gear added if this brand new direction for BST is intended to be legitimate and not some impossible joke.

You want us frontline? Then bring it! Give us traits and gear to back that blasphemy up of fix our jobs and leave us alone.

I love this game. I love BST.

Keep me as a customer, please, keep taking my money. The only requirement is that you do your job.

I agree. They state they want us to be "frontline" jobs but do not give us the tools to do the work. It's like putting a house fire out with a garden hose. I don't get what there reason is just to nerf the distance but not do anything to compensate the draw back from it. This reply of "We just want beastmaster to take more risks" doesn't cut it. They spent the last 2 months or so revamping this particular job when there are so many jobs besides beast that need balanced. I never wanted to play like summoner and sit in the back line but that is how they created issue in the first place. Giving the pets tremendous vitality and power like I said before but leaving the master unbalanced.

I want to be frontline and melee with my pet but I don't want to have a whiff fest all day because all my stats are tied to my pet and I get to hold a short leash. Too many of the end game NM's spam AEO crippling tp moves or status debuffs. Give us abilities to survive those. Make killer instinct a straight buff and contribute to the party better. Revamp or get rid of this useless fencer trait.

I don't feel this is about solo aspect of beastmaster anymore. There are many jobs now that can solo anything just as good. So is this about beast being too powerful? As I continue to watch sch, blm burn through NM's like nothing. Too proud to say hey we might of went overboard with this and we were wrong? I just don't get it and never will. SE you have great content and a great game why do you continue to not listen to the players that pay for your service? I do not expect every request to be answered yes too. But frankly I am getting tired of seeing "We Have No Plans for This".

[Kensagaku]

The more I think about what BST needs to be a front-line job (better skills, abilities and job traits), I just realized:

That's not good enough. Our pet abilities still do not execute in a reliable and repeatable fashion. The randomness with which we get "out range", due to the size of the player, the monster or the pet....makes the use ready moves very unpredictable.

Could you imagine if Cure spells had the same problem? Or if Cure spells could randomly miss a target? ...I'd never play WHM if that were the case.

Annnnd this just made me think of FFII, and FF Tactics. Both have a chance for buff spells to "miss." When you fail to Protect yourself in FFT due to a miss, it's always wince-worthy. Worse when you see that 30% landing rate because no one around you is compatible with you. ._.;

That being said, they've at least been a little better at creating hybridized gear lately, though they've got a ways to go. Despair Helm Path C gives 30 Master Acc and 20 Pet Acc, Emicho hands gives 35 Master Acc and 20 Pet Acc, Despair Greaves Path C give 27 Master Acc and 17 Pet Acc. Valorous Mail has 20 Master Acc and can be augmented with at least up to 30 Pet Acc. Empath Necklace gives 10 Master Acc and 10 Pet Acc. Each Skullrender Path C gives 10 Master Acc and 20 Pet Acc.

So we've got more options than we used to, but in the end, we're still behind those who can focus on one set of accuracy gear. That, and the fact that we need to swap out an axe for Charmer's, makes it just a little difficult to be involved in endgame anything.

[Jile]

SE could just cap ready reduction to 15 seconds so you have no reason to use the axe.

If SE gives us a strong shield with strong stats that are worth more overall value than that 5 seconds gives us, the Abyssea axe wouldn't be used in every ready macro like it is now. BST might get use of fencer and nudge us closer to the 2015 vision of BST.

SE changed our JA range, called it a play style adjustment and........ BST still don't hit because they're not designed to.

I'm fine with being frontline. But for the love of all that's good, they need to backup the idea with functioning gear.

Fencer could be great, if SE backs this up with gear instead of "no plans".

[Ataraxia]

SE could just cap ready reduction to 15 seconds so you have no reason to use the axe.


That's a very good suggestion. This will be good for BST so they can focus on equipping shield, melee or bst/whm or bst/run.

[Ataraxia]

I was in the RoV final battle a few days ago, on my PUP, I joined a shout run and we went 1/1 with PUP and SMN and other jobs.

During the fight, which I spent the whole time hiding in the corner, while my Valoredge tanked the NM, I kept thinking about BST, and how hard it would be to do that fight on BST now. On Pup, I was standing literally the other side of the arena from the mob, spamming my maneuvers, and running into Repair Range, which is thankfully far away from the NM's huge ugly AOE spam. That mob really spams AOE, and big awful horribleness everwhere. As I ran in to use Repair, I kept thinking "wow this would be impossible on Bst now."

Obviously the answer to that is "don't do that fight on Bst, do it on another job." But it is the Last Mission battle, maybe a person wants to finish the storyline on their main job, for the memories. I was lucky because my main is PUP, and I could hide in the corner the whole time.


Nice Job Stompa you are making a lot of sense. SMN and PUP continue to have 20 yalms distance to avoid, stay safe and run away.

Mr. Akihiko Matsui I challenge you to play BST. Please do not use other people to experiment on this job but I like for you to play it. I like you to challenge these NM with your trust and I hope you prevail. I want you to experience the frustration people are having right now.

Escha - Zi'Tah

Tier 2 "Level 125" - Kamohoalii this NM have charm AOE.
Tier 2 "Level 125 - Brittlis this NM can use chainspell up to 3 times base on it's HP. Why would anyone give a Tier 2 NM 3x 1 hour ability?

Escha - Ru'Aun

Tier 2 "Level 125" - Yilan
Tier 2 "Level 125" - Palila

Reisenjima

Tier 2 "level 129" - Kabandha this NM does Deathly Glare and you can avoid this by turning. The question I have is why does this move work on PET like Alluring Honey when it have no eyes? Alluring honey does not have eye and it detect by sound and if it does have eye I don't see it. Now explain to us what common sense is? To die from a deathly glare when you have no eyes? or not to die from a glare because you have no eyes?


I do not like to see people quit this game because someone in SE fail to see that BST range was given for the past 12 years.
I personally will continue playing FFXI and find other battle strategy and enjoy my job. For once in your life Akihiko Matsui do something great for FFXI and make sure that when FFXI end people will know Akihiko Matsui that your the best Director and number 1 because you are reasonable and you listen to your fans. Right now people are having second thought about you and your decision. Thank you and have a good day. :/

[Jile]

That's a very good suggestion. This will be good for BST so they can focus on equipping shield, melee or bst/whm or bst/run.

This suggestion only works if SE makes a brand new shield. All the ones out are of zero benefit to BST and regardless of the ready timer time of the Abyssea axe, we wont use a shield if it castrates us and our pets.



Mr. Akihiko Matsui I challenge you to play BST. Please do not use other people to experiment on this job but I like for you to play it. I like you to challenge these NM with your trust and I hope you prevail. I want you to experience the frustration people are having right now.

Perhaps Mr. Matsui will have some useful suggestions on shields after he plays the job for the first time, as you suggest. He should also play with a real account not a GM-God account where he does not get a realistic feel for what we endure. Would be nice if he fraps records it and places his experience on youtube for us to review.

[Gwydion]

This suggestion only works if SE makes a brand new shield. All the ones out are of zero benefit to BST and regardless of the ready timer time of the Abyssea axe, we wont use a shield if it castrates us and our pets.




Perhaps Mr. Matsui will have some useful suggestions on shields after he plays the job for the first time, as you suggest. He should also play with a real account not a GM-God account where he does not get a realistic feel for what we endure. Would be nice if he fraps records it and places his experience on youtube for us to review.


I think this is a great idea! Cap Ready @ 15 seconds, give us a GOOD Ready shield (and 417 Shield Skill instead of 300) and I think we'd be much better off as frontline.

I would still ask for 10-12 yalms instead of 7.

[Selindrile]

Bst have frequently been not meleeing with their pets for years and years, anyone remember that everyone's favorite XP target for bst for ages was bombs because they blew themselves up? They certainly didn't melee on those. This change is tantamount to redefining the job, even if that wasn't it's original design, it's not like not-meleeing on bst is anything new.

Remember when the devs said ninjas weren't supposed to be tanks, but then the community tanked with NIN, then the devs released tanking gear for NIN? Yeah, that was cool, I mean, the devs have claimed to be asking for feedback, isn't deciding to play it as a backline job an example of feedback? I mean why bother claiming to ask for feedback if you're going to do the opposite of what the players obviously want?

[Faithful]

I applaud all the Bst who have quit over this mistake SE has made. I quit the game almost 2 months ago over this and right now don't even want to come back. I had considered returning if they fixed the job, but honestly at this point I don't even think I wanna come back even if they did fix it. I have a ton more free time on my hands now thanks to not having FFXI in my life.

It's a shame it came to this. FFXI meant alot to me for well over a decade. I almost went through a divorce over this game because I loved it so much. Bst was the only job I ever cared about, and the only job I ever played unless I was really bored. I hate to see what's become of it.

If SE won't listen and fix this mess then speak with your wallets and quit this game. Bst deserved better than to go out like this. It's clear to me that no ones at the wheel any more steering FFXI.

[Megalas]

As we’ve mentioned before, the development team has no plans to change the range at which beastmasters can use commands. As Matsui previously stated, we want beastmasters to be close range battle jobs and bear the risk of taking damage in the front line. This change was made, because players were using beastmaster to attack from the back line, and this was against what the development team had intended for beastmaster.

With this response which seems to differ from the original reasoning for the range reduction many questions come to my mind on the matter. Immediately my first question is how long has this been the "intended" idea from the development team? As far back as I can recall the player has always taken a back seat to the pet in all cases be it for XP or Endgame content prior to any adjustments made to the class. It has been over 2 years since Matsui took the lead and until now this is the first I am hearing of this intention. If this was just a recent change of ideals it is a bit late in the game literally to be changing a play style, or should I say force feeding a play style.

If this had been the intention from day one then why was there a lack of gear that was stat balanced with this idea in mind? The Emicho gear set looked like you started to understand the concept of hybrid job stats while the Nukumi+1 set which should be tailored specifically to Beastmaster lacks any kind of basic pet bonuses aside from it fitting the predator to prey correlation. Mind you the TP bonus and Stout Servant are very nice but that is not enough in a hybrid gear set that is Beastmaster only.

Another question in that sense though is why was there never any new job abilities or traits added to endorse hybrid play if that was intended from day one? You could possibly have still slapped Beastmaster on DD gear as you do now and given the job a trait that took stat boosts such as STR, DEX, INT, Accuracy, Attack, Magic Attack, etc. on gear and giving the pet a bonus to its stats by maybe 80-100% of the stat given to the master or even simply just have the pets stats scaled off the master.

I also have to ask do you have any plans to remove Fight, Heel, Stay, Leave, and to some extent possibly Ready commands from paralyze and amnesia checks on the master (mind you amnesia on the pet will still prevent ready moves)? Loss of basic control of the pet for a hybrid or even a pet focused class is in honest opinion unacceptable design. Ready moves would technically be considered "weapon skills" for pets so if players do not have to pass a check for weapon skills to go off why should pets be subject to it while the master is paralyzed? Do you intend to change the AI for pets with regards to enmity to ignore all threats other than what you issue the Fight command on? Since that is another form of control that when lost that "leash" becomes a frustrating issue by itself.

Do you at least acknowledge that there is a defining range variation between different pets and players? You know since a lot of players have made it clear as to being one of the glaring issues they repeatedly report not just scream "give us back our range". Do you intend to at least try to normalize that distance between all pets and players?

There are a lot of questions that need to be asked but I doubt there will ever be a clear answer on any of them. I myself would welcome the rollback of this change not for the ability to sit in the back lines again, but to not have to keep adjusting to stay in that "leash" range(especially since my favorite pet to use is the rarab). In my own personal opinion if the damage done while playing the back line was really an issue and something had to change capping ready recast at 15 seconds would likely have been a less "problematic" idea overall. Though at the same time I would have to say that the 1200 Gift should be changed to a Sic/Ready Recast Reduction to reach the cap with choice of merits or gear. In that same scenario I would also suggest looking at the 3 charge costing abilities and consider reducing them to 2 based on the current faster pace the game has taken. At the base design level of the Beastmaster it is really nothing more than a heavy armor wearing pet class with the option to go swing axes if the player so chooses.

PS: Considering this stance on what is "intended" as how Beastmaster should play I would seriously still like to know why the Founder Set excluded Beastmaster.

[Olor]

I am so disappointed in the devs. Not reupping my sub this month. If BST are intended to be front line, then we need front line JAs, front line stats, and armor that applies to both master and pet. We have none of that.

BST has been back line for more than a decade. Why ruin it now?

[Jile]

SE Devs. Just another reminder that the JA's do not work when we're standing behind mob's we're FIGHTING. This is obscenely designed, please review and adjust it so we can be in MELEE RANGE behind any mob we're fighting with our JA's functioning. We're still waiting for gear to back up your claim that we're frontline... our pets and ourselves (CANT) be geared to have ACC/ATK/-DT etc at the same time so we're simply forced to be in melee range and using JA's while not bothering to engage ourselves since we cant hit end game content when our pets can and vice versa given the pre-nerf-2015 limitations of our gear and job abilities which were NOT designed around this current 2015-BST intent.

We either need you to backup the assertion (with gear and Job Traits/Abilities) that you want us front line or please restore our JA's and leave us alone before you hemorrhage even more good players due to stubbornness.

I love XI, I hate that you killed the playability of my main job at the end of the game's life - please, Dev's, take action.

[Kensagaku]

While I do want them to improve our JA range, I do want to point out that they have made gearing both master and pet for acc/atk or DT easier as time goes. Sure, not at the same time, but that's why you tap a macro to switch to DT when you see a move or spell and use your Acc/Atk set otherwise. Just examples:

Acc/Atk:
Skullrender Path C x2: 10 Atk/Acc (Master), 20 Atk/Acc , 8% Haste, and 5% DA (pet) each.
Despair Helm Path C: 30 Acc and 20 Atk (Master), 20 Acc/Atk (Pet)
Valorous Mail: Acc+20, DA+2, PDT-2% (Master), Up to Acc/Atk+20~30 (augments for pet).
Emicho Haubert Path C: Acc/Atk+15, DA+3 (Master), Acc/Atk+15, DA+3, DT-3% (Pet)
Emicho Gauntlets Path D: Acc+35, STP+6, DW+5 (Master), Acc/Atk+20, STP+6 (Pet)
Despair Greaves Path C: Acc+27, DA+2 (Master), Acc+17 (Pet)
Pastoralist's Mantle: Acc+10/Atk+20 (Master), Atk+20 (Pet), Acc up to +15 and DT up to -4% (Pet Augments)

Assuming Valorous Mail is out of reach and you go with Emicho, you're looking at:
+137 Acc, +75 Atk, +5 DA, +5 DW, +6 STP (Master)
+112~127 Acc, +105 Atk, +13 DA, +6 STP, -3~7% DT, +16% Haste

And this isn't including accessories which can boost your stats or your pet's stats higher. Empath Necklace gives +10 Acc to the master, and +10 Acc/+5 Atk to the pet. Get a good Angel Ring aug from the last fight of ACP, I've got Acc+4/Pet: Acc+6 on my augments. Waist you can do Hurch'lan Sash, with Acc+15 for them master and Acc+10/Haste+5% for the pet. Earrings you'd have to consider between the two, and I'd probably do something like Cessance/Zennanori for extra master acc, or DW earrings if you don't need that extra Acc. Legs, which were not listed above, you can do Acro with a Pet: Acc aug to get 10 acc for the master and up to 25 Acc for the pet. And then there's other augs such as Pet: Pet: Haste (which, if you get 4%, caps your pet haste via gear with the stuff above).

As for a DT build, here's what I currently use:
Izizoeksi (Pet: DT-5%) / Kumbhakarna (Aug'd with Pet: PDT-4%) / X / Vanir Battery (MDB+4)
Jumalik Helm (PDT-5%) / Twilight Torque (DT-5%) / Handler's Earring (Pet: PDT-3%) / Handler's Earring +1 (Pet: PDT-4%)
Jumalik Mail (DT-8%) / Ankusa Gloves (Pet: PDT-3%) / Dark Ring (PDT-4%/MDT-4%) / Dark Ring (PDT-4%/MDT-6%)
Pastoralist's Mantle (Pet: DT-3%) / Isa Belt (Pet: DT-3%) / Taeon Pants (Pet: DT-4%) / Taeon Boots (Pet: DT-2%)

I pop this on when I see a TP move or spell coming. Gives, in terms of PDT/MDT: 26 PDT/23 MDT (Master) and 31 PDT/17 MDT (Pet). With Shell V on the master (via trust), that nearly caps MDT, or with Shell III from the scroll, you're only 6% lower. If I capped my augs and got some DT- luck on Taeon hands to switch those in (assuming a cap of -4% on all Taeon), pet defenses start looking like 33 PDT/24 MDT. With Stout Servant, that's an additional -9% DT, so we look at 42 PDT/33 MDT.

So yeah, of late they have done a lot better for creating hybridized gear for us, and we can adapt to situations with a variety of gear sets. They still need to do something like double our current JA range though.

[Xilk]

testing if I really am banned.

nope. Thats good. still don't know why my bug report was locked and marked as information needed.

yeah, the rationale is changing on this. I think the buggy-ness is gone now, but the range is still ridiculous. oh well.

[HopefulNAPlayer]

Any update on an actual fix for Beastmaster? ...At the very least, there is no reason that Reward should be subject to this range distance. (I mean, Fight command isn't!)

[Gwydion]

Any update on an actual fix for Beastmaster? ...At the very least, there is no reason that Reward should be subject to this range distance. (I mean, Fight command isn't!)

My pet dies needlessly because of the 7 yalm reward distance as well. I think if they won't fix Ready Range, maybe fix Reward? I really hope they make plans to do this :/

[dasva]

testing if I really am banned.

nope. Thats good. still don't know why my bug report was locked and marked as information needed.

yeah, the rationale is changing on this. I think the buggy-ness is gone now, but the range is still ridiculous. oh well.

Naw still buggy. Just last night I was standing between the mob and my pet and ready still wouldn't go off a decent amount of the time

[kylani]

Naw still buggy. Just last night I was standing between the mob and my pet and ready still wouldn't go off a decent amount of the time

Same was happening to me before I quit. Meleeing WITH my pet on ONE mob, and commands not working. I switched over to BLM for a bit, because it was irritating not being able to rely on my abilities. I've always loved BST though, so even though I had no trouble on BLM, I stopped playing because I loved BST, and playing just made me sad/mad. No other job has to worry about their abilities not firing when they are well within range... It's like random amnesia, without any notification/sign of amnesia.

With the holidays, I'm better off anyway, but still check to see if they fix it. At this point, I don't think SE cares or will fix it, and to be honest, I'm probably better off getting weaned off now. For those who remain, I do hope they fix the inconsistent behavior. It's lousy to have the job this buggy/unreliable.

[hakrev]

My pet dies needlessly because of the 7 yalm reward distance as well. I think if they won't fix Ready Range, maybe fix Reward? I really hope they make plans to do this :/

I have to agree the 7 yalm range is silly. So, I just use dawn mulsums and stand back most of the time, but should reward take a packseat to a spammable item? Is this what is passed off for as balance these days, cuz it's totally and completely NOT balance. Just this evening I faced a monster with a wicked aura effect and couldn't get a single reward off, so i had to get a ton of mulsums to spam cuz my team kept losing. One has to wonder whether any realistic testing went into this range change. My strong guess is not at all, but who knows, maybe it was their intention to ruin a completely working and functional job, which had been sidelined for most of a decade of gaming. Sounds kind of diabolical! *twists mustache and laughs evilly* Muhahahaha

[Jile]

SE.... Have you been reading? JA's are not working properly. Please fix them.

[Ataraxia]

Everyone have faith I hope they read many of our post for some adjustment to BST. I wonder if this was done on purpose to balance bst. The tiger pet seems to have a little longer range than that of Bouncing Bertha pet. Some pet we have to be close to use Ready or maybe the size of pet do matter. Akihiro Matsui you need to stop playing Samurai Tarutaru and start playing BST tarutaru so you can test out this new BST range with their pet. Right now people don't know if this is a bug or something done on purpose to balance BST?

[Sirmarki]

Hi,

I've always fought alongside my pet, its my style of playing. Some people I know have quit because this directly affected the way they play BST.

My main issue is when fighting large mobs. I find I have to run around in circles to get to my pet, and then stand on its head to use ready commands. I'm engaged with the mob in a close combat situation, so this most definitely shouldn't happen.

[Gwydion]

Sad bump. :(

Any ideas here SE for an actual fix? :(

[shaduf]

Usually SE are fast to reply, i hope there will be a positive update about BST.

[Jile]

Well, we can continue to hope.

[Jerbob]

Even as a non-BST player I can see how absurd these changes are. Here's hoping you guys all get the fix you rightly deserve.

[Kjara]

Personally I never used BST as a back line job. I used, however, to fight a different mob than what my pet was fighting. In dynamis I'd use my pet to fight summoners away from me so me and the trusts don't get killed by Astral Flow. Or in a thousand other instances, I'd have it take care of aggros I didn't want near me.

I still do that, so don't think this measure changed my playstyle. All what changed is that my pet is reduced to a mere auto-attack machine, and Ready is becoming less and less of a used ability. It's quickly approaching its retirement as much as Charm did.

[Helldemon]

Ready will never become useless, it's 95% of your dmg...

[Jile]

I also do not see <Ready> being less needed post-nerf; however, it's just far more cumbersome now.

Adjustments need made. For the most part, everyone in the community agree some changes would be nice.

The nerf was made due to high damage output, SE's nerf did not address that and only harmed how the job was played.

A JA that functions like SMN's 'avatar favor' could be put in it's place, where when active your JA ranges would be restored or at least greatly increased from current at a cost of half damage or something similar.

[Nyarlko]

I also do not see <Ready> being less needed post-nerf; however, it's just far more cumbersome now.

Adjustments need made. For the most part, everyone in the community agree some changes would be nice.

The nerf was made due to high damage output, SE's nerf did not address that and only harmed how the job was played.

A JA that functions like SMN's 'avatar favor' could be put in it's place, where when active your JA ranges would be restored or at least greatly increased from current at a cost of half damage or something similar.

That seems far more complicated than necessary and would still not solve the bugginess of the current implementation. It is possible for a player to be unable to issue commands while both master and pet are fighting the same target. The glitch is affected by the model sizes of both target and player. The simplest solution would be to change the range limitations of BST abilities so that they are relative to our targets. By this, I mean that when we use Ready, the system checks to make sure that the master is within range of the targeted enemy instead of checking that the master is within range of the pet.

[Jile]

The simplest solution would be to change the range limitations of BST abilities so that they are relative to our targets.

I agree that in concept that's the most simple solution; however, I believe SE mentioned before they could not do it due to {insert coding is hard reason}.

Any fix that allows us to use our JA's effectively and consistently would be nice. I'm so beyond tired of JA's not working when I'm right beside my pet - the nerf is very buggy and was not even a solution to the problem as it were at the time.

BST at a minimum needs the JA ranges SMN had before the update that increased their range (rather than having SE code it as a variable distance that they said they couldn't do), so we can move past this lack of consistent functionality due to SE's over-reaction to a relatively easy to fix problem.

SE please address this issue. JA's have been broken since the nerf - they do not work consistently - a fix is needed!

[Urmom]

I agree that in concept that's the most simple solution; however, I believe SE mentioned before they could not do it due to {insert coding is hard reason}.

Naw they said they could do it but wouldn't because then what if you couldn't see your target then you couldn't use your moves... ya know for those really common situations when you are really close to your pet and there is something obstructing your view to the mob but not to your pet that is almost as close. About only time I see that really coming up nowadays is if your pet is on a corner and the mob is barely around it for some reason you can't move 2 yalms. It was more of a we don't want to so here is a reason that doesn't really make sense

[Urmom]

So now that smn can do physical bps significantly stronger than any ready move tell me again how strong physical pet moves are too strong to let master be at range

[Nyarlko]

So now that smn can do physical bps significantly stronger than any ready move tell me again how strong physical pet moves are too strong to let master be at range

\o/ This is a valid reason to re-examine the BST JA ranges on it's own. If you tallied up all the of the steady nearly-monthly buffs that SMN has gotten since the BST nerf, it's a miracle that "nerfSMN" is not a thing. lol Would like to note that even before the nerf, I witnessed a SMN 3-shot an Escha-Ruaun T2 using Ifrit, which is something that is so amazingly beyond the capabilities of BST that I still don't understand why it was the one that got nerfed. The dev team is being stubborn about not reversing it due to their vision of how they want the job to function, while simultaneously failing to provide the equipment/systems/abilities/etc required to make that vision feasible. At the barebones minimum, Ready should be extended to 10' range, and all other pet related JAs to 20'. I mean, we put up with a TON of glitches with our pets, can't we get a pat on the head for being good kids? ^^;;

[Jakuk]

So now that smn can do physical bps significantly stronger than any ready move tell me again how strong physical pet moves are too strong to let master be at range

Don't forget while being able to repeatedly resummon with NO timer blocks like BST.

[Olor]

Don't forget while being able to repeatedly resummon with NO timer blocks like BST.

and to have their pet immediately come to their aid as soon as they are summoned, without even having to use a JA, that also has a timer...

BST pets only advantage over summons is a lot of HP... they don't follow orders, they don't automatically protect the master, and their ready moves are weaker than bloodpacts.

Unleash is good and all, but the design of the job should not be based on one JA on a one hour timer.

SMN is harder to gear well, but that's because they actually have more gear to allow them to do their job well and it's focussed on allowing them to do their job well. Look at how much gear SMN has to reduce bloodpact timers for instance. Meanwhile bsts have to use a non ilevel axe to get their timers down.

And a lot of the best BST gear for certain things - that *does* exist is augment roulette gear.

[Urmom]

Don't forget while being able to repeatedly resummon with NO timer blocks like BST.

Honestly I'd say that's a fair trade off for the hp difference and ability to heal them via ja. The repeated summons kind of compensates for the fact they die so much more


Unleash is good and all, but the design of the job should not be based on one JA on a one hour timer.
You think Unleash is good you should see smns Astral Conduit zerg T4 reisins lol. Can even get several in before with apogee and revit -1

[saevel]

So now that smn can do physical bps significantly stronger than any ready move tell me again how strong physical pet moves are too strong to let master be at range

Pet damage output was never the reason BST was broken in the first place. Buffed melee's could always do more damage then pets. The problem was BST's pets had such absurdly high HP, and so much pet -DT, that it wasn't difficult for the master to keep them alive while staying comfortably out of range of the nasty status ailment spam most NM's have these days. There were only a few other ways to deal with it but BST zerg was the simplest method with the least chance of error and thus the preferred strategy. Now people use the SCH + GEO + BLM strategy because it's the second least chance of error followed by RNG Decoy Shot spam and finally melees. RNG Decoy is slow and a bit complicated but if done right it's safe and effective. Melee zerg is effective but lots of things can go wrong and requires the most attention from support, meaning people can't multi-box it effectively.

To address the problem of BSTs SE had a few options. First they could nerf the content so that it didn't spam AoE status ailments and other cheap tactics that discourage people being close to it. They could of severely nerfed pet HP down to 2.5~3K while lowering the DT cap and defensive stats. They could of created some sort of gimmick that punished the pet for it's master being too far away, or they could of just reduced the range of the JA's. The best option would of been the first but SE instead chose to do the easiest way and just force BST's to stand in the same spot melee's have to stand. Thus while the pet, with it's 6K HP and super -DT, could easily eat the NM's super cheesy attack, the master with his/her 2.2K HP couldn't.

People need to first understand exactly what was unbalanced before they attempt a fix. I know BST's everywhere want to go back to the days of killing the hardest mobs while eating cheeto's and watching youtube cat videos, but that is extremely unbalanced and bad for the long term health of the community.

As for SMN, their pets are still super duper squishy. Avatars have the stats of a Black Mage without manawall. They have low HP and limited DT except against their strong elements. They now have some pretty powerful offensive moves but are still made of glass and the BP timer sucks. Unlike BST, SMN doesn't get a charge mechanic to enable them to spam, they need to burn a SP in order to do that for a limited time. To be perfectly honest pet jobs in FFXI have always been hit or miss. They are either Godlike broken powerful, or nearly useless, never something in between.

[Nyarlko]

There are really only two issues that the majority of us who are vocal about BST have with the nerf last year.

1. It was not just Ready. I think there would be far fewer against it if it had only affected Ready range. Reward was also reduced to the same painfully small (and variable) distance which makes it harder to deal with the frequent happy-puppy behavior of the AI that simply LOVES to poof off 20-30' away to smack a random mob and often times get itself killed before we can get it back into Reward range.

2. Because the range is so small, any variances that occur become glaring issues. The model size variance issue for example here.. When the range was large, it didn't really affect players that much. The differences that could occur based on Galka vs Hume/Mithra/Elvaan vs Taru, or small vs large vs huge mobs, were much more easily overlooked since the difference in range was a smaller percentage of your overall range AND the differences did not cause a noticeable difference in results. It is quite easy to tell the difference nowadays, and causes a racial imbalance for the job.
EX: A mob aoes while a "small" taru BST and "large" galka BST are each at their absolute max distance away > taru gets hit, galka does not.
EX2: If a taru stands the same distance as the above galka > taru's Ready/Reward will fail, galka's will not.

Devs, if you intend to hold to the hardline stance you've taken on this issue, please consider at least restoring non-Ready JA ranges to the old ranges. This would reduce aggravation by reducing otherwise preventable pet deaths.
As for Ready, could it be possible to implement race-based range extensions so everyone matches a "large" model Galka? Basically, measure the maximum ranges the Galka would have with each pet, then increase the range on Ready for the other races so that they match it. I think this would be the simplest, most elegant, solution to the model size issues without a significant impact on your stated vision for the job.

[Urmom]

Pet damage output was never the reason BST was broken in the first place. Buffed melee's could always do more damage then pets. The problem was BST's pets had such absurdly high HP, and so much pet -DT, that it wasn't difficult for the master to keep them alive while staying comfortably out of range of the nasty status ailment spam most NM's have these days.
See here's the thing though... avatars actually have access to plenty of dt and while less hp they can be very easily resummoned so that same argument held true with smn as well unless you trying to tank with them. But outside of doing the right set of buffs/debuffs or getting great MB (in which they could do crazy capped dmg) avatars tended to do less dmg move per move while at the same time having longer timers, that combined with the fact no one cared until they buffed ready and the fact no one still cares rng has the same benefits, or the fact automatons have been waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more durable for awhile makes it clear dmg output was clearly a huge component in it. If it truly was just about avoiding AoEs and durability then their is a clear argument to reduce the range of all pet commands, ranged attacks and casting distance by a good deal


As for SMN, their pets are still super duper squishy. Avatars have the stats of a Black Mage without manawall. They have low HP and limited DT except against their strong elements. They now have some pretty powerful offensive moves but are still made of glass and the BP timer sucks. Unlike BST, SMN doesn't get a charge mechanic to enable them to spam, they need to burn a SP in order to do that for a limited time. To be perfectly honest pet jobs in FFXI have always been hit or miss. They are either Godlike broken powerful, or nearly useless, never something in between.
You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of jug pet dts. Almost all of it came from gear. The main exceptions being if you used the right pet against the right elements and even then only a small number of pets were strong against elements most of those pets being pretty bad and only about half the elements being covered. Only a couple of pets had any physical dts and all of them came with an extreme weakness to another physical dmg type. Meanwhile avatars all have a weird 50% pseudo pdt. As far as gear/trait dt perfectly geared bst including stout servant will have 58% pet dt I believe and 4 more pet pdt. While smn would have 46% dt with another 4 pdt. A difference for sure but not some a omg completely squishy vs the most durable thing in the world. Especially when factor in the weird pdt it actually gives them higher physical dmg reduction outside of again the pets that had reductions to specific types but weaknesses to others. Similarly if the mob focuses on a particular element you could gain even greater reduction to elemental dmg. Meanwhile my auto over here can get capped pdt and mdt over 50% bdt a bunch of mdb and a few weird separately factored dts while riding a permanent 200 regen <.<. Also will never come close to either bst or smns dps in a million years even if I didn't have to wait on tp and stupid pet AI

Not that it matters as much as you make it out to be because their is a huge fundamental difference between the need to keep the pet alive. You lose your avatar oh no summon it up again assuming you didn't ya know dismiss it on your own after the bp and maybe miss a couple of seconds off of riding your bp if you weren't paying attention... bst loses a pet well hope bestial loyalty is up. It isn't well call beast a possibly worse pet (or use up a really expensive hq jug). Oh that's not up too well shit just sit there and do nothing.

As far as system... spamming isn't all it's cracked up to be. A lot of the more powerful moves are 2 charges anyways and every single one with a lvl 2 element is except the ones that are 3 charges so even if they moved bps to a charge system you still wouldn't be spamming the most powerful if they went that same route. Regardless using 2 moves in 20 seconds for a top end of 20-30k dmg each doesn't beat out the now top end of 70k every 22 seconds. No one really cares if you can do smaller spikes more often if the dps is less. Especially given the sp2s of the 2 jobs. In fact with the range as it is right now it can actually be hard to ride your timers and not die at times especially in group play and it would probably be better for bst if our moves did a bunch more dmg but had longer timers.

Let's not forget it's more than just dding. Because while they have pretty much destroyed the entire debuff and magical section of jugs and made them into a hammer avatars have way more utility being able to do wards while still doing rage. Or just doing the debuffs. Heck how many of the fights with really bad dmg moves at least start out revolving around lullaby?

[Nyarlko]

I think none of this had much to do with the JA range nerf. SE probably didn't take anything like SMN being able to put out better dmg, or jug pet HP or DT- values, into account when they did what they did.
The nerf seemed to be a response to a vocal minority who were upset that BST was the only "melee" who could safely deal damage while avoiding the overkill AOEs (and attached debuffs) and the playerbase shift towards BST-centric strategies due to that mechanic and the lower gear thresholds needed to be able to perform adequately in 119+ content (which brought along a melee-job exclusionary stance.)

If the problem was that a pet job was able to deal too much damage from range, then why is it that SMN and PUP have received nothing but constant, nearly monthly for the past year, buffs?

..Don't get me started on jug pet selection >_>;; I could rant for pages about all the add'l issues that BST has to deal with, including limited pet options..

[Olor]

Yeah I am mad that we haven't gotten ilevel versions of every pet. Even being able to choose between more than grasshopper or grasshopper would be nice.

[Nyarlko]

Yeah I am mad that we haven't gotten ilevel versions of every pet. Even being able to choose between more than grasshopper or grasshopper would be nice.

I actually find Patrick to be more useful nearly all the time. Self-SC is a nice thing to have on tap. I do believe that we should have access to at least one ilvl jug pet of each family for correlation purposes tho. Killer Effects can be pretty fun to play around with, but we don't have access to all families iirc.. or it could be that some of the ones we have just suck to badly for my brain to permit retention of knowledge of them. :/

[Urmom]

Yeah I am mad that we haven't gotten ilevel versions of every pet. Even being able to choose between more than grasshopper or grasshopper would be nice.

Don't forget bird jesus

[Urmom]

I actually find Patrick to be more useful nearly all the time. Self-SC is a nice thing to have on tap. I do believe that we should have access to at least one ilvl jug pet of each family for correlation purposes tho. Killer Effects can be pretty fun to play around with, but we don't have access to all families iirc.. or it could be that some of the ones we have just suck to badly for my brain to permit retention of knowledge of them. :/

I am a little confused how you can say we have 1 for each family for correlation but don't have access to all families for killer effects in the next sentence lol. Regardless we do have at least 1 for the 7 main families. There's even a potentially useful one in each. But yeah we missing ilvl version of a lot of the sub families within those categories.

[Nyarlko]

I am a little confused how you can say we have 1 for each family for correlation but don't have access to all families for killer effects in the next sentence lol. Regardless we do have at least 1 for the 7 main families. There's even a potentially useful one in each. But yeah we missing ilvl version of a lot of the sub families within those categories.

Maybe I should have emphasised the "do" and the "should".. I DO believe that we SHOULD have access...

XD I was saying that we do not have them, and that it seems wrong that we do not. And that if I was incorrect, it was because I refused to remember about the ones that suck. lol

[Urmom]

oh totally missed that should lol.

For anyone that's wondering ones from each family that aren't total suck

Beast:
Tiger - kind of no brainer. Strong 1 charge move with a huge attack bonus and cheap from npc
raaz - Kind of bonkers with zealous charge and pet haste set. Sweeping gouge very nice def down and high dmg. Also has highest hp

Lizards:
Eft - Basically a poor mans Bertha lol. Decent AoE move. Does less but only 1 charge also is blunt which might come up
Lizard - Quick and easy self skillchaining and mbing. Also one of the better AoE magic users
Raptor - Similar to tiger. High attack bonus strong single charge move but also has a pretty good 3 charge move

Vermin:
Chapuli - Best aoe physical.
Fly - Best AoE magical single charge move
Mosquito - Gloom spray pretty strong but 2 charges. Infected leech also makes the thing damn near impossible to kill outside of one shotting in a variety of situations. Dark sdt also nice sometimes

Plantoid:
Mandragora - Can basically keep skillchaining until windows too small to still do so
Snapweed - Decent mdb, 3 different sdts, defensive bonus, and one of 2 pets with 6k+ hp make it fairly sturdy pet. Tickling tendrils also is potentially the most powerful moves if all hits connect

Amorph:
Slug - def bonus some water sdt and decent magic dmg moves with decently strong debuffs on them... but they are 2-3 charges. Pretty meh though
Acuex - Huge reduction to blunt dmg fairly meh otherwise
Literally the only amorphs we have at 119 even though we have had leeches in the past and they were somewhat useful

Bird:
Tulfaire - huge sdt to slashing which is what most mobs physical is though somewhat tempered by a huge weakness to piercing. Also sdt to fire and wind. Moltling plumage fairly decent debuff and skillchain properties. Penta very strong but 3 charges makes it meh outside of unleash
That's about it... yeah we get colibri and apkallu but lol.

aquan:
Crab - High def and bubble curtain allowing it to cap mdt makes it one of the most durable against magic.
Pugil - Like the tiger of aquans. Strong 1 charge move (but this one AoEs), cheap npc jug, high attack bonus. Other notes is it's ridiculously insane against water. Like 75% sdt and ridiculously resistant on top of that to the point where my 119 characters had hard time landing much on a lvl 99 one lol.
Frog - ...... ...... Most ironically named pet? Has a 50% sdt to light and water and innate mdt... but also has attack and def penalty, one of the lowest hps or for that matter every stat think actually negative mdb. No moves. Basically a joke mascot.


Now some other pets have stats I mentioned as pluses for others but weren't listed because overall was meh and another pet would have that bonus. Like Funguar has some nice sdts but has basically no other redeeming qualities and those are also shared by other jugs.

Off the top of my head jugs we've previously had but don't have ilvl versions currently that have potential. These would be pretty easy to implement since already got all the assets for them can just make a new jug with high lvl caps and new name and everything else the same

Sabotender - Since the update the needles actually has potential though would probably have to boost it some more to be strong again compared to other moves outside of weird super low attack settings
Leech - Already mentioned but pretty sure old one had some physical and water sdts. Acid mist was pretty strong and tp drain kiss could have potential in a fashion similar to mewling lullaby
Hippogryph - a th pet that doesn't completely fold to everything. Strong thf dd pet with good moves. Fantod back heel is a pretty cool combo
Lynx - Decent thunder move from what I recall paralyze move was really strong
Adamantoise - I mean it's a genbu. Pretty tanky and the def down move was pretty good. Like 25% and lasted at least 2 hours when I tested it


Then there's the subspecies that we haven't gotten in jugs but exist and we've gotten in say monstrosity that would probably be easy to implement. Just reskin add a move or 2 and go. Wont list them all random ones I'd be interested in is the snow rabbit for wild ginseng. Possibly some toads that can actually cast to make up for the total lack of moves and ridiculously low stats. Plus was always fun charming hecteyes back in the day. Gold ladybug Searing Effulgence.

[Nyarlko]

That's a pretty good list, and I did indeed forget about most of them, but you forgot to include my buddy the curebunny for beasts :O
PonderingPeter is my personal fav to use when not worried about dps due to having a 1.2k+ no-agro curaga on tap as a 2 charge ready (which works while silenced, and also heals himself, but not other party members' pets unfortunately.) Is capable of performing self-sc (Impaction iirc) but his attack/defense sucks. You also get the side benefit of getting to make all sorts of corny jokes about playing with him. ;)

[Urmom]

I'm kind of on the fence with him... partly because of said jokes lol.

[Olor]

I use peter a lot to be honest, mostly cause rabbit jugs were always my favourite and I only solo with bst so I can do whatever I want lol

[Shiyo]

As we’ve mentioned before, the development team has no plans to change the range at which beastmasters can use commands. As Matsui previously stated, we want beastmasters to be close range battle jobs and bear the risk of taking damage in the front line. This change was made, because players were using beastmaster to attack from the back line, and this was against what the development team had intended for beastmaster.
Great!
I am glad the dev team team feels this way, makes the game a lot more enjoyable for me.

Keep up the amazing work!

[Urmom]

Not sure if satire or trolling....


I use peter a lot to be honest, mostly cause rabbit jugs were always my favourite and I only solo with bst so I can do whatever I want lol

I was actually thinking about that when I wrote the list... but wasn't really sure how good it would be since I almost also got a mule or 2 with me. But yeah sounds like a good beast option

[Nyarlko]

The only downside is that the NQ ilvl rabbit jug caps out at 118... So, you kinda have to use the HQ.

This is actually a problem with other jugs as well, like Patrick. It is rather irritating that I feel hard-locked into my merit "choices" due to the silly way that jug pet levels work. Can we at least get an adjustment so that all the jugs on Theraisie are simply always 119? Extending that to all lv99 jugs would be best since there are no indicators on the jug items about pet level range, but that would be a good start. It's absurd that we are forced into 5/5 Beast Affinity AND reforged relic hands in order to have pets that match our level. None of the other pet jobs have to jump thru all of the hoops that BST does simply to reach their baseline effectiveness.

[Gwydion]

Great!
I am glad the dev team team feels this way, makes the game a lot more enjoyable for me.

Keep up the amazing work!


I find it ironic that SMN is allowed to utilize this technique but Beastmaster cannot. I hope the play styles of all pet jobs are adjusted accordingly.

[Xilk]

As we’ve mentioned before, the development team has no plans to change the range at which beastmasters can use commands. As Matsui previously stated, we want beastmasters to be close range battle jobs and bear the risk of taking damage in the front line. This change was made, because players were using beastmaster to attack from the back line, and this was against what the development team had intended for beastmaster.

This really needs to be reconsidered. In the very least it shows no one on dev team has tested how the change affects normal play. Adding better defensive gear for both master and pet (ie Pangu) has been a great idea to encourage bst to be a front line job. However, killing the range for pet commands is a terrible way to do it..

The command range reduction actually causes more trouble with close range fights. its too small for close range fights. If I move around the target, I unexpectedly fail to issue commands because I am too far from my pet. I cannot kite and cure my pet. I have to spend more attention on making sure I am in range so my pet doesn't completely fail. its harder to balance master and pet at the same time so why bother? Trying to force compliance for job playstyle is just saying "Don't play this job" You should enable creativity instead of trying to stifle it.


The fundamental problem that makes the short range no good, is because bst must sacrifice pet buffs for master buffs or vice versa. This means that bst will never be good enough in a group situation to be on the front line. It would need an ability like Dragoon to pass buffs to pet for that to work. So why force it when there are stronger reasons to punish the player for playing how Matsui san says?

There is this funny thing in the community that is very old:
There has long been hatred towards beastmasters. This goes way back to at least 2004.
Part was from the exp penalty on the party. The other part was because many players used Beastmaster to Harass groups and behave badly in the game a long time ago.
Beastmaster was very useful job to MpK large groups of players.

I never did anything like that. However, once I started really enjoying playing beastmaster, I experienced alot of it. It still surprises me that such a thing exists.

There are even players who claim credit for the range nerf as a result of their constant complaining and they are happy to punish beastmasters.
This animosity is very strange.

Did Matsui-san get harassed by a beastmaster player before?
It is hard not to think something like this.

Even if you do not restore pet command range to where it was, it should be at least 10 yalms from the pet. This would at least get rid of the trouble of giving commands WHILE master is engaged also.

[TrustfundBaby]

I agree wholeheartedly with increase the pet distance to 10 yalms....this would AT LEAST make REWARD feel both comfortable, sane and when using the job ability.

[Gwydion]

I agree wholeheartedly with increase the pet distance to 10 yalms....this would AT LEAST make REWARD feel both comfortable, sane and when using the job ability.

It would be so nice if at least some beastmaster abilities were reverted to 10 yalms....man, the distance change really ruined my favorite job.

[Jile]

It would be so nice if at least some beastmaster abilities were reverted to 10 yalms....man, the distance change really ruined my favorite job.

Agreed. BST was my main for a very long time and I retired it and moved to PUP due to this change. This really needs to be revisited.

[Elesar]

I think I've finally come to the conclusion after waiting for over 10 years for the developers to make Beastmaster far more useful in endgame content only to be let down again and again, that unfortunately, it will never happen. Either because the developers don't care enough (clearly they know something is wrong with the job and they still haven't done anything) or they keep running into game breaking problems when they do.

So let's all go into our fantasy world where we can actually fix Beastmaster with the way the real way the "job adjustment" should have gone. Come along for a ride everyone. NOTE: This ride ends in sadness because it is not real.

------
Charm. Recast 15 seconds.
Everything it can currently do plus…
Bind against anything that doesn’t get charmed. Bind duration 2 seconds.
Has a small chance of landing “Confusion” status ailment. Confusion will cause the mob to attack nearby enemy allies and / or itself. Confuse duration 5 seconds.
CHR increases Charm accuracy and “Charm +” gear increases duration. Max duration: Bind = 10 seconds, Confusion = 30 seconds.
Charm can be used with a pet(s) currently out.

Gauge. Recast 10 seconds.
Everything it can currently does plus…
Gives exact level, current weakness, accuracy and defense, and what enhancing spells and debuffs are currently on target enemy. Other players within the Beastmaster’s party / alliance can examine the current target enemy and also see Gauge’s information. Example: the spell “Libra” in other Final Fantasy games. The effect is linked to the mob similar to a thief’s treasure hunter. If the Beastmaster dies, the effect is lost.
CHR increases Gauge accuracy.
Gauge can be used with a pet(s) currently out.

Tame. Recast 3 minutes.
Everything it currently does plus…
Lowers the non-charmable target enemy’s attack by 10%. The affect is an area of effect landing on anything within 10 yalms of the target enemy. The attack down effect can be increased by an additional 5% if the target is weak to the Beastmaster’s current pet.
Attack down duration 10 seconds.
“Tame success rate” gear increases accuracy. Max duration: Attack down = 10 seconds. Max potency: Attack down = 15%.
Tame can be used with a pet(s) currently out.

Call Beast. Recast 30 seconds.
Recast timers are unaffected by gear that reduces timers.

Call Beast II. Recast 15 minutes.
Calls multiple beasts to fight by your side. Max 3. The amount of pets summoned are based on the jug used. Only works with specific jugs.
Example: “Brave Hero Glenn” = 3, “Herald Henry” = 3, “Sharpwit Hermes” = 2. This cannot be used on stronger pets such as “Bouncing Bertha”.
Additional information will be labeled on the jug pets that can be used with Call Beast II.
All pets share hate with pet #1 and will attack and do all the same commands as that pet.
Max duration: Call Beast II = 5 minutes.

Inherited job traits.
The Beastmaster will receive some of the current summoned pet’s job traits.
Example: “Left-Handed Yoko” Job = DRK. Inherited traits are Attack Bonus and Arcana Killer.
Max duration: till the current pet is released or dies.

Melee Stance and Magic Stance.
Similar to a Summoner’s Avatar’s Favor, the Beastmaster’s stance can be changed based on the situation.

In ‘melee stance’, there will be an attack, pet attack, accuracy, and pet accuracy aura 10 yalms around the beastmaster. The strength of this aura starts at 1 attack and 1 accuracy and gradually increases the longer the Beastmaster’s pet has been out. This effect can be further enhanced if the pet’s monster correlation is stronger than the mob it is currently fighting. If the pet is below (weaker) than the current enemy in the eco system (example: beast pet fighting a plantoid), then the aura the Beastmaster emits will have its max tier capped similar to a Corsair rolling an unlucky number.
Gear with “Killer effect” increases the maximum tier of effect.

In ‘magic stance’, there will be a magic attack, pet magic attack, magic accuracy, and pet magic accuracy aura 10 yalms around the Beastmaster. Similar as melee stance, the effect increases the longer the pet is alive and is based on the pet’s position in the monster eco system against the current mob.
The pet will only have magic spells as abilities and will be locked to a specific element based on the species of pet and will maintain a distance of 15 yalms away from the target enemy. Example: “Aged Angus” Aquan = Water bases spells.
Gear with “Killer effect” increases the maximum tier of effect.

Shield + Fencer.
Fencer IV, V, and VI.
New JSE shields for BST and THF that help boost overall damage when wielding a one-handed weapon. This is an attempt to make the Axe + Shield combo the best combo over dual-wield. The stats on the shield scale up the higher level you are.
Example: Double Attack +5%, Critical Hit Rate +2%, STR +15, Monster Correlation effect +20, Sic / Ready Recast -5 Seconds.

Snarl. Recast 30 second.
Can be used on party members by transferring up to 50% of their enmity to the Beastmaster’s pet.

Reward.
New pet food that heals multiple pets at the same time similar to the spell “Curaga”. This food is to be used when the Beastmaster uses Call Beast II.

New Jug Pets.
These new pets are specifically added to the game to allow Beastmaster to have a pet that is strong against specific types of monsters thus allowing for ‘melee stance’ and ‘mage stance’ to be utilized. These jug pets would fall under the ecosystem category of “demon, undead, arcana, lumorian, luminion, and beastmen”.
Some examples are: Undead = “UndeadHoundPetName” (strong against arcana), Demon = “CorpselightsPetName” (strong against dragons), Arcana = “ClustersPetName” (strong against undead).
As for a jug pet that would be useful against Beastmen in Dynamis, the idea was a fellow beastman willing to fight by your side.
An example is: Beastman = “MoblinAllyName” (willing to sell out fellow beastmen for a good paid day – strong against beastmen).

LevelUpPetName. Recast 10 minutes.
This ability allows the Beastmaster to raise the level of any charmed pet to the Beastmaster's current level. The level raised will be based on the level of the Beastmaster's main-hand weapon at the moment the ability was used.
The pet will despawn the moment it is released.
Max duration: Until the pet un-charms or dies.

[Beastorizer]

I think I've finally come to the conclusion after waiting for over 10 years for the developers to make Beastmaster far more useful in endgame content only to be let down again and again, that unfortunately, it will never happen. Either because the developers don't care enough (clearly they know something is wrong with the job and they still haven't done anything) or they keep running into game breaking problems when they do.

So let's all go into our fantasy world where we can actually fix Beastmaster with the way the real way the "job adjustment" should have gone. Come along for a ride everyone. NOTE: This ride ends in sadness because it is not real.

------
Charm. Recast 15 seconds.
Everything it can currently do plus…
Bind against anything that doesn’t get charmed. Bind duration 2 seconds.
Has a small chance of landing “Confusion” status ailment. Confusion will cause the mob to attack nearby enemy allies and / or itself. Confuse duration 5 seconds.
CHR increases Charm accuracy and “Charm +” gear increases duration. Max duration: Bind = 10 seconds, Confusion = 30 seconds.
Charm can be used with a pet(s) currently out.

Gauge. Recast 10 seconds.
Everything it can currently does plus…
Gives exact level, current weakness, accuracy and defense, and what enhancing spells and debuffs are currently on target enemy. Other players within the Beastmaster’s party / alliance can examine the current target enemy and also see Gauge’s information. Example: the spell “Libra” in other Final Fantasy games. The effect is linked to the mob similar to a thief’s treasure hunter. If the Beastmaster dies, the effect is lost.
CHR increases Gauge accuracy.
Gauge can be used with a pet(s) currently out.

Tame. Recast 3 minutes.
Everything it currently does plus…
Lowers the non-charmable target enemy’s attack by 10%. The affect is an area of effect landing on anything within 10 yalms of the target enemy. The attack down effect can be increased by an additional 5% if the target is weak to the Beastmaster’s current pet.
Attack down duration 10 seconds.
“Tame success rate” gear increases accuracy. Max duration: Attack down = 10 seconds. Max potency: Attack down = 15%.
Tame can be used with a pet(s) currently out.

Call Beast. Recast 30 seconds.
Recast timers are unaffected by gear that reduces timers.

Call Beast II. Recast 15 minutes.
Calls multiple beasts to fight by your side. Max 3. The amount of pets summoned are based on the jug used. Only works with specific jugs.
Example: “Brave Hero Glenn” = 3, “Herald Henry” = 3, “Sharpwit Hermes” = 2. This cannot be used on stronger pets such as “Bouncing Bertha”.
Additional information will be labeled on the jug pets that can be used with Call Beast II.
All pets share hate with pet #1 and will attack and do all the same commands as that pet.
Max duration: Call Beast II = 5 minutes.

Inherited job traits.
The Beastmaster will receive some of the current summoned pet’s job traits.
Example: “Left-Handed Yoko” Job = DRK. Inherited traits are Attack Bonus and Arcana Killer.
Max duration: till the current pet is released or dies.

Melee Stance and Magic Stance.
Similar to a Summoner’s Avatar’s Favor, the Beastmaster’s stance can be changed based on the situation.

In ‘melee stance’, there will be an attack, pet attack, accuracy, and pet accuracy aura 10 yalms around the beastmaster. The strength of this aura starts at 1 attack and 1 accuracy and gradually increases the longer the Beastmaster’s pet has been out. This effect can be further enhanced if the pet’s monster correlation is stronger than the mob it is currently fighting. If the pet is below (weaker) than the current enemy in the eco system (example: beast pet fighting a plantoid), then the aura the Beastmaster emits will have its max tier capped similar to a Corsair rolling an unlucky number.
Gear with “Killer effect” increases the maximum tier of effect.

In ‘magic stance’, there will be a magic attack, pet magic attack, magic accuracy, and pet magic accuracy aura 10 yalms around the Beastmaster. Similar as melee stance, the effect increases the longer the pet is alive and is based on the pet’s position in the monster eco system against the current mob.
The pet will only have magic spells as abilities and will be locked to a specific element based on the species of pet and will maintain a distance of 15 yalms away from the target enemy. Example: “Aged Angus” Aquan = Water bases spells.
Gear with “Killer effect” increases the maximum tier of effect.

Shield + Fencer.
Fencer IV, V, and VI.
New JSE shields for BST and THF that help boost overall damage when wielding a one-handed weapon. This is an attempt to make the Axe + Shield combo the best combo over dual-wield. The stats on the shield scale up the higher level you are.
Example: Double Attack +5%, Critical Hit Rate +2%, STR +15, Monster Correlation effect +20, Sic / Ready Recast -5 Seconds.

Snarl. Recast 30 second.
Can be used on party members by transferring up to 50% of their enmity to the Beastmaster’s pet.

Reward.
New pet food that heals multiple pets at the same time similar to the spell “Curaga”. This food is to be used when the Beastmaster uses Call Beast II.

New Jug Pets.
These new pets are specifically added to the game to allow Beastmaster to have a pet that is strong against specific types of monsters thus allowing for ‘melee stance’ and ‘mage stance’ to be utilized. These jug pets would fall under the ecosystem category of “demon, undead, arcana, lumorian, luminion, and beastmen”.
Some examples are: Undead = “UndeadHoundPetName” (strong against arcana), Demon = “CorpselightsPetName” (strong against dragons), Arcana = “ClustersPetName” (strong against undead).
As for a jug pet that would be useful against Beastmen in Dynamis, the idea was a fellow beastman willing to fight by your side.
An example is: Beastman = “MoblinAllyName” (willing to sell out fellow beastmen for a good paid day – strong against beastmen).

LevelUpPetName. Recast 10 minutes.
This ability allows the Beastmaster to raise the level of any charmed pet to the Beastmaster's current level. The level raised will be based on the level of the Beastmaster's main-hand weapon at the moment the ability was used.
The pet will despawn the moment it is released.
Max duration: Until the pet un-charms or dies.

So you want actual adjustments?

[Elesar]

So you want actual adjustments?

I know right? It seems crazy.

[Beastorizer]

The range does not bother me. As someone whom was always close range with that sense of danger, I feel at home knowing there is no backing down. I am still as effective as I was before I quit in 2015.

My issue is how lazy they have become with a pay to play mmo. I warned everyone about the reskinning of pets in my "Redo pet thread" which was blasted, and here we are........

[Gwydion]

The range does not bother me. As someone whom was always close range with that sense of danger, I feel at home knowing there is no backing down. I am still as effective as I was before I quit in 2015.

My issue is how lazy they have become with a pay to play mmo. I warned everyone about the reskinning of pets in my "Redo pet thread" which was blasted, and here we are........

Lazy? I leveled Beastmaster from 1 to 75 over many years using just charmed pets, both solo and groups 2-6, exclusively including only other Beastmasters. I've played Beastmaster in every possible situation. Unfortunately, you lack fundamental understanding of the Beastmaster job and from this point on, all of your posts are suspect. You're behaving as a shill. Beastmaster was nerfed and re-labelled as front-line DD without being given anything to support or justify that assertion.

If you don't see how little control we have our our pet's position, the monster's position, model sizes, you've never died as Beastmaster and lost 10,000 XP from a single K.O. ...and had to endure a 90-minute trek to your solitary XP camp.

You speak as if old-school Beastmasters don't know risk. Why are you even posting here if you quit in 2015? Give me a break.

Much smarter people have already figured out what Beastmaster needs. It's time for SE to respond.

[Beastorizer]

Lazy? I leveled Beastmaster from 1 to 75 over many years using just charmed pets, both solo and groups 2-6, exclusively including only other Beastmasters. I've played Beastmaster in every possible situation. Unfortunately, you lack fundamental understanding of the Beastmaster job and from this point on, all of your posts are suspect. You're behaving as a shill. Beastmaster was nerfed and re-labelled as front-line DD without being given anything to support or justify that assertion.

If you don't see how little control we have our our pet's position, the monster's position, model sizes, you've never died as Beastmaster and lost 10,000 XP from a single K.O. ...and had to endure a 90-minute trek to your solitary XP camp.

You speak as if old-school Beastmasters don't know risk. Why are you even posting here if you quit in 2015? Give me a break.

Much smarter people have already figured out what Beastmaster needs. It's time for SE to respond.

Ummm.....I was talking about lazy development.....LOL. I can see you are still upset that my play-style differs from yours. Well, keep venting, just don't expect anymore responses in someone else's thread about a topic in another thread.....


Back on topic.

I feel like summoned jugs can be a thing. Like, the BST has Bertha out, but is able to call out bigger pets to perform a damaging attack or buff, then leaves the screen. Similar to Lost Ark.

These creatures can range from a Scorpion whom can give a sharp strike boost, to Gabbraths. The BST can selection from a list of abilities to use. The monster uses it, then vanishes. Just a thought.

[Rwolf]

There is no convincing me distance nerf was intended or that it is beneficial.



Some stopped playing BST because it was no longer fun.
Some protest but accepted it because they love the job.
Some feel it was something to master and gloat that it sets them apart from the majority players who don't want the restriction.


The truth is BST had been either fighting with their pets to speed things up or hanging back and letting pet widdle mobs down for a decade. If it was the incorrect way to play, it would have changed a long time ago.

The truth is that a very vocal minority of players protested so venomously that they created a pitchfork mob. Spreading propoganda because BST was becoming popular in PUGs.

The only reason BSTs were even used is because mobs had ridiculous combat stats, evasion and AoE damage. Better to use a pet with 4k HP and higher stats than players.

Things changed not because of the nerf. It changed because they nerfed mobs multiple times and gave us easy to get high stat gear like ambuscade to close the gap.

If they are willing to instantly revert WHM changes because it changed playstyle. Same should be for BST.

[Beastorizer]

^^Good points

[Gwydion]

There is no convincing me distance nerf was intended or that it is beneficial.
...
If they are willing to instantly revert WHM changes because it changed playstyle. Same should be for BST.

Thank you so much for saying this. I agree 100% with the entirety of your post.

[Okhryeny]

Bst distance was nerfed because before smn burns bst would get thrown on everything because you never had to worry about a wipe. But I'm sure you guys knew that since bst is your favorite job

[Gwydion]

Bst distance was nerfed because before smn burns bst would get thrown on everything because you never had to worry about a wipe. But I'm sure you guys knew that since bst is your favorite job

OK, I'll bite. Then why not reduce Pet Ready distance while Unleash is in effect ....why reduce *EVERY* single JA to 7 yalms? You can't even consistently heal your pet, as the activation varies based the model size of you, your pet and monster. Come on now, this is ridiculous. Beastmaster needs a fix and this wasn't it.

[Beastorizer]

It is a pride thing. There is nothing wrong with the BST suggestions, but the problem is, they did not come up with them lol. When do devs actually take an idea by the player & implement it? They usually do it, with a huge twist to put their imprint on it.

Saving face is a big deal. If the player knows the job, & can fix the job better than they can, it make them feel some type of way.

They would rather let BST fade into obscurity than fix it with suggestions that are not theirs. I seen this before with another Eastern mmo, called City of Heroes. The game was shutdown, but the company just held onto the IP until this day, with no intentions of using it. Common belief is they would rather let the IP rot, than sell it to someone whom will use it because it would make them look bad if it actually worked. Granted, the game is back up, on private servers after nearly a decade.

If BST were fixed due to the suggestions of the community, it would make them look bad. That is my theory, which is why it comes off as if they hate BST. Yes, I am still going to make suggestion, but I don't count on them being considered....

Native DW is a given, and makes sense. Problem is, the community came up with this idea, not the devs......Soooooo...We never got it....

[Gwydion]

To be completely honest, I think it has to do with technical debt. Some of the code is so OLD, that they're probably afraid to change anything in ToAU zones or NPC logic/quests. (This and WoTG seems to be the least touched of all content/expansions).

I really hope they address Beastmaster soon. Playing Beastmaster feels like playing with a broken controller. And for the last time: Can we please have trusts, bubbles and songs that effect our pets too? ....it's literally insane that only Corsair can buff Beastmaster's pets. It's insane that AF1+3/Regal set bonuses apply to avatars but not Pets.

How many more examples do we have to provide to prove that Beastmaster is a second-class citizen with respect to FFXI mechanics that are available to other jobs.

[Seish]

Ummm.....I was talking about lazy development.....LOL. I can see you are still upset that my play-style differs from yours. Well, keep venting, just don't expect anymore responses in someone else's thread about a topic in another thread.....


Back on topic.

I feel like summoned jugs can be a thing. Like, the BST has Bertha out, but is able to call out bigger pets to perform a damaging attack or buff, then leaves the screen. Similar to Lost Ark.

These creatures can range from a Scorpion whom can give a sharp strike boost, to Gabbraths. The BST can selection from a list of abilities to use. The monster uses it, then vanishes. Just a thought.

Lol at this.