White mage "nukes"

[Vepion]

Holy II that is all >_>

[Kingofgeeks]

hmm i agree! bump!

[Zaknafein]

Omg yes plz! Ultima for whms! Give us at least one respectable nuke to zap things with preeze.

[Bubeeky]

We whms totally need ultima....correct me if I'm wrong, but traditionally, in ff lore whm has the most raw magical power, and it's supposed to come through in our ability to cast some of the most powerful ancient magics...holy, ultima, etc...I'd love to see that translated for us here as having just one worthwhile nuke...the nukes we have are nothing short of embarassing lol I cast holy for a MASSIVE....six...hundred...damage lol

[Gropitou]

Holy II that is all >_>

and Banishga 3 while you're at it, BLM have T3 GA why not us?

[Sawaa]

Omg yes plz! Ultima for whms! Give us at least one respectable nuke to zap things with preeze.

I thought Ultima was a Primarily Dark spell? could be wrong. It just always seemed that way to me.

[Vepion]

idk but i just thought of Holy II due to our ability to make make holy "worth it" my max for Holy is 1075 on EXP mobs with MAB atma >_>
no wait 1.1k lol
Banishga III would be nice too ! but ultima seems a bit much to ask for lol

[Charismatic]

I'd rather they just keep it as it was and give us the Banish line spells around the level BLM was getting spells in that tier.

WHM gets Banish at Lv5, BLM gets Water at Lv5.
WHM gets Banish II at Lv30, BLM gets Water II at Lv30.
WHM gets Banish III at Lv65, however... BLM already had Water III at 55 but doesn't learn Thunder III (last of that tier) til 66.

I would be satisfied if WHM got Banish IV somewhere in the 70s and later on down the line we got Banish V and corresponding Banishga spells.

Also, as for you only getting 1.1k holy on exp enemies with WHM... I guarantee that's because you're either using the wrong atma setup (something that doesn't include Atma of the Beyond) or you're not wearing a proper magic attack setup because even outside of Abyssea I can make my Holy do more than that on NMs (after a few cures of course).


One of the main reasons the spells tend to look weak is that WHMs do not gear up in MND/MAB when casting Banish spells, another would be the fact that the other jobs with nukes actually have traits and such to boost the power of these spells, WHM doesn't. And I don't think we should, but we should still get the same tier of magic, though ours will be weaker by default due to not having gear/traits for damage and that's really just fine because that's not what WHM is even for but at least one job in the game (even if it doesn't turn out to be WHM, though I think this job is most appropriate) should get some decent damage light elemental nukes, you know, for times when we're up against a foe whose weakness is the light element.
I also believe that BLM should get a new entire line of spells (of the dark element, I don't think drain really cuts it) but that's for an entirely different thread.

[Simian]

"One of the main reasons the spells tend to look weak is that WHMs do not gear up in MND/MAB ....."

WHM's should always find ways of adding extra MND. I have found through testing that 1 MND adds 5 to a Cure V. That is some pretty potent stuff. If you are a WHM in Abyssea with less than 200 total MND, you need to rethink your gear and atma choices. MND is also a modifier for just about every single club weapon skill.

I have broken 2K on Holy outside of Abyssea. Sadly Banish III does considerably less given the way Afflatus Misery augments your banish based on last damage taken rather than accumulated damage taken unlike what Afflatus Solace does with cures.

[Merton9999]

I'd like Holy II, Banish IV, and Banishga III just for job growth/potency sake. I'd also like Afflatus Solace to boost Holy more. I'd rather have Ultima for my SCH though, under Divine magic. Currently the bonus LA gives to divine is useless, and I'd like to SCH receive a unique nuke that will make me care about Divine skill.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

We whms totally need ultima....correct me if I'm wrong, but traditionally, in ff lore whm has the most raw magical power, and it's supposed to come through in our ability to cast some of the most powerful ancient magics...holy, ultima, etc...I'd love to see that translated for us here as having just one worthwhile nuke...the nukes we have are nothing short of embarassing lol I cast holy for a MASSIVE....six...hundred...damage lol

Okay, I'll correct you, Ultima is and has always been Black Magic, the most powerful magic at that, non-elemental, and ignores every type of resistance.

Which is exactly why it'll never be implemented in this game, not even by enemies. Meteor will proably always be the highest nuke.

[Aleste]

WHM's should always find ways of adding extra MND. I have found through testing that 1 MND adds 5 to a Cure V. That is some pretty potent stuff.

? Your 'power' should go up by 5 for every 1 MND added, but never your cure. Might want to check the formula, or retest >.>;

Either way, most decent whitemages should be packing a full mind set on them anyways (not that it's hard to do these days; probably end up using the majority of your standard cure gear with a few pieces changed).

Looking forward to Banish4 at 91; although I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't access to some of the spells that are currently in the .dats that arn't listed in our placeholder spell listing. (Holy2, Banish 5, -ga 3/4/5)

[Charismatic]

I'm not arguing that WHMs should or shouldn't keep MND sets but the fact is that most do not. Just thought I'd clarify because it seems like some people might not understand what I was saying.

(Also, MAB is also rather important for these nukes and I've only met one other WHM who carried any)

[Bubeeky]

Okay, I'll correct you, Ultima is and has always been Black Magic, the most powerful magic at that, non-elemental, and ignores every type of resistance.

Actually, it's evenly split between games where ultima is black magic, and white magic, but most of the time, it's not specified one way or the other, as it's raw magic in it's most powerful form.

I think it'll be implemented in this game eventually, cuz it's one of those FF staple spells, the question is just what job gets it. I just hope if it is put in one day, it's given to one of the pure mages (whm or blm) and not a hybrid mage (rdm or sch)

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Actually, it's evenly split between games where ultima is black magic, and white magic, but most of the time, it's not specified one way or the other, as it's raw magic in it's most powerful form.

I think it'll be implemented in this game eventually, cuz it's one of those FF staple spells, the question is just what job gets it. I just hope if it is put in one day, it's given to one of the pure mages (whm or blm) and not a hybrid mage (rdm or sch)

If I remember correctly, it's only ever been referred to as White Magic in one game, and even then the INT stat powered it up.

All the most recent games has had it as black magic, just a non-elemental magic. Realistically the style it is is most suited to SCH's current style, but if, and that's a massive if it's ever implemented I'd rather see it stick to the black magic path and go to BLM.

[Venrymel]

I haven't finished all of the FF's, but Ultima was in FFII (one of my favorites), first, and it was described as White Magic. (Mindu left the party to go find it.) Really, I think that became Holy and Ultima was given to Black Mage after that. FFXI's Holy, though, doesn't compare to other installments' in terms of damage. FFXI's Holy is good as the super-fast-cast-divine-damage spell.

[Jonesy]

I agree I want to see WHM get Holly II,Mega Holly,Banish IV,Banishga III whm neeed's some new Nuking spell's
and probley a stronger Stoneskin likw Stoneskin II

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I agree I want to see WHM get Holly II,Mega Holly,Banish IV,Banishga III whm neeed's some new Nuking spell's
and probley a stronger Stoneskin likw Stoneskin II

They should just up the cap on Stoneskin, the only time Stoneskin II should be added is if they do like Phalanx II and make it party member targetable IMO.

[Elvyn]

Hmmm... I nvr really took my WHM for a nuker until recently when a pair of Eridco Mitts dropped to me...I like to play around with nukes when ever I can, but mainly I don't nuke because next to BLM's, SCH's and PUP's we just don't cut the "offensive" mustard.

MegaHoly I think would be an awesome spell...
When ever Alex used it I was always partly 0.0 "$%&$" and partly 0.0 "wooooow"
But if SE were to implement something like that it would have to be in-keeping with WHM's role, for example; MegaHoly is done the same way Alex/Odin for smn, a particular JA needs to be active in order for us to use it, but it has some form of negative impact on the caster like the resetting of all our JA's (two Hr included).... Idk this is just my opinion and one oh many. XD

[Jamesruglia]

Tsk tsk, snappy responses...

Ultima is White Magic in FF2, and a large assortment of stats and traits directly affected its power, including weapon proficiency levels.

Ultima otherwise appears mostly in games that don't actually classify Magic as "White" or "Black", but rather "Offensive" and "Healing"(Otherwise "Holy" would be sometimes classified as "Black Magic")

"Mega" is unusual for Final Fantasy spell names, unless it's "Flare", and then it's arguably not a magic spell. It's also redundant; A stronger single-target spell would be "Holy II", while a mass-targetting spell would be "Holyga".

But Holy II/Banishga III/Banish IV would be nice. I just find it fascinating to obtain obvious spells that strong intelligent/job-acting enemies have that players don't, but probably would at the right level(Like how Paladins got Shell IV at Lv80, etc) If I played Blm, I'd complain about getting "Stoneja" as opposed to "Stonega IV", since "Stonega IV" would be sequentially obvious and already exists as a spell available to enemies. I understand the spell works on possibly imbalanced mechanics such as MP cost and charge time, but they could've adjusted the spell or, having added a new one anyway, just called "Stoneja" "Stonega IV" instead, and... Now I'm just rambling.

[Merton9999]

I'll go for Holy II, Banish IV, and Banishga III on WHM just for growth sake, because I'm tired of mobs casting them when I can't, and to have some more divine magic to toss out.

I don't really care for nuking as a concept on WHM though. I'd rather Ultima went to SCH, and implemented as Light element AOE Divine magic. How that compares to previous FFs is irrelevent imo. SCH has no native divine magic and generally subs RDM, so Ultima on SCH would be a great way to make use of the Divine magic boost in Light Arts. I also think SCH needs a powerful unique nuke, and I'd like to see the behavior of the spell dependent on parameters like weather. Giving Ultima to BLM seems redundant since they're getting Meteor, unless it works in a unique way or the element alignment difference would be significant.

For WHM, I don't really care about anything but Reviviscence.

[kingfury]

‹Yes please!› to all the new tiers of Banish, Banishga, and Holy.
However, even with these WHMs would find themselves hard pressed to compete in the "nuking department" as someone said already due to their lack of JT's that directly bolster divine magic damage.

What about a new spell that could possibly have tiers to it that "primes" an enemy for a WHM's offensive divine magic spell by greatly lowering their resistance and magic defense? It's like the reverse logic of what BLMs have. Instead of trying to stack pounds of new tiers of divine magic spells on WHM's shoulders in order to boost their magic damage, flip the script and allow them to create a weak spot that breaths that new damage potential into what WHM's already have(and hopefully will have).

• Prism Douse (possible tiers 2-3): Weakens a targets resistance and lowers Magic Defense to divine magic.
So a WHM wouldn't really hope to see 2k+ damage from Holy unless they pop this baby on the target 1st.^^

[Teraniku]

PLDs should get Holy II (Since they are the "Holy Warriors" so to speak) imo but I agree with the next level Banish spells.

[Bubeeky]

why would pld get holy 2? they are holy warriors...we're the holy spellcasters ; ;

[Shadotter]

I agree with this wholeheartedly, if only because I feel that since SE has gone out of their way to make sure we're well aware of the element that we should have a strong light nuke and a strong dark nuke.

[Raxiaz]

I would humbly request Banish IV (Banish III was like level 65, 25 levels later we're still without a new tier), Holy II, and Banishga III.

[Charismatic]

Banish IV and V both, please.

[Bubeeky]

and Ultima....we whms need to petition fer some ultima action cuz whm > all other jobs

(j/k to all ppl that would otherwise waste energy flaming me for humor)

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Lack of nukes is not an issue, it's lack of MAB.

[Eldelphia]

I don't really care for nuking as a concept on WHM though.

^ this.

We rarely use our white magic nukes now as it is. Occasionally on undead or for fun but usually just for proccing. Level BLM or SCH if you want some serious damage power.

[kingfury]

We rarely use our white magic nukes now as it is. Occasionally on undead or for fun but usually just for proccing. Level BLM or SCH if you want some serious damage power.
---------------------
It's not impossible to change the trend currently in place with the addition of some simple tools to the mix of WHMs possible nuking potential.

WHM already has spells that decrease a monster's physical defense using Dia, so why not a monster's magic defense? What I suggested above with something like "Prism Douse" would be Divine and Light Magic specific, but having a generalized spell that greatly decreased a monster's magic defense could be big news for the life of Nuker mages and WHMs alike.

It would just take too much MAB for a WHM to catch up with what standard Nuker mages have natively, so I say focus on giving WHM a way to tip the scales in their favor by lowering the amount needed to see some decent results.

[Bubeeky]

I agree with King, it's mostly about our lack of MAB/ways of increasing damage...I have whm and blm both at 90 and I enjoy them both, but it's all too easy to load my blm up with mab stuff, where my whm can only benefit from a few things here and there, and even then, some of the quicker ways, (atmas or w/e) just aren't practical for a whm to use regularly because nuking isn't our primary goal....I'd be all for a magic defense version of dia or some kind of extra boost to banish spells, or maybe a change to afflatus misery or even an additional afflatus that focused almost exclusively on MAB for us.

[Charismatic]

Lack of nukes is not an issue, it's lack of MAB.

Eh, the few times I do actually bust out my nukes on stuff I'm waiting on timers a lot so... I couldn't possibly disagree more.
And really, I don't care if the newer tier Banish spells were only as effective as the BLM counter parts on undead or undead/demons or what have you but really, we're the only class with light based nukes and the highest they go up to is tier 3 when there's tier 5 STs in the game.

Seriously, come on.

[Aleste]

I don't really see much point in nuking on whitemage (although, I do have a MAB build for it).

Most of the spells have a decent recast timer (which feel longer when you've no other spells to nuke with) and do pretty pathetic damage, and that's without contemplating the additional effect on undead...

I'm quite happy with how they've done Holy; getting stronger as you cure, relatively quick casting time and can be decent when magic bursted. Banish spells on the other hand....

[Zaknafein]

I find many times to nuke. When farming empy's. Anytime when a NM is getting close to death, and my party is cured up. Staggering yellow of course. We deserve at least one potent nuke that's mod is mind. Seriously in any RPG healer's have at least one high level toy to bomb stuff with. Make it a decent recast timer so it isn't abused, and step back to see happy whm's all across Vana' Diel :)

[Khajit]

You guys are operating on incorrect assumptions like the idea that SE failed at making holy a decent spell when in reality they nerfed it because it was TOO good. Plds and whms were manaburning with holy pre nerf.

[Charismatic]

Yes, and that was many many many years ago when the game was an entirely different beast. Few of the changes made back then mean squat now.

[Sasaraixx]

I guess that I am in the minority of White Mages on this issue, but I do not believe the job should receive any powerful nukes. I think SE has done a good job with how the Banish and Holy spells operate now. WHM is a healing class with support capabilities. Given the current state of the game, I do not believe giving the job a powerful nuke would be wise. It is not a nuking class, despite what it might have been capable of in past Final Fantasy games. The numbers that can already be achieved on Holy with proper gear/curing is acceptable to me.

I agree that the Banish spells line should continue up to tier IV and III for -ga but the damage should remain minimal. If anything, I would like to see an increase in the defense down effect on undead and perhaps have it extend to demons and other dark based fiends. I wouldn't shake my head at a magic defense down spell, although I think it would be more suited to RDM.

I also agree with those who believe the game should have at least one powerful nuke for the light and dark elements (not including Summoners). Comet was found in the dats and dat mining also found a lv95 light based offensive spell for SCH. They could be one in the same, and I would be completely fine with that. Meteor is going to BLM at lv99 and I always thought it would be non-elemental. Perhaps they could give BLM and DRK the impact spell that is on the Twilight robe (and seriously lower the MP cost).

[Aleste]

Got bored and decided to have a peek at the .dats again...

Spells which have whitemage job assigned to it

Curaga V (91), costs 450mp, 5.5s casting, 11s recast
-- 'Restores HP of all party members within area of effect.'
Holy 2 (95), 200 mp, 1.25s casting, 1m recast
-- 'Deals light elemental damage to an enemy. Afflatus Solace: Increases spell potency based on the amount of HP you restore.'
Banish IV (listed as 90), 108mp, 5.75s casting, 45s recast
-- 'Deals light elemental damage to an enemy. Afflatus Misery: Increases spell potency based on the most recent damage you sustain.'
Banishga3 (65??), 233 mp, 6.5s casting, 45s recast
-- 'Deals light elemental damage to enemies within area of effect. Afflatus Misery: Increases spell potency based on the most recent damage you sustain.'
Unknown ice based enfeebling magic (61), 12mp, 4s casting, 30s recast (paralyga?)
-- No help text with this spell.
Unknown earth based enfeebling magic (61), 30mp, 2.5s casting, 30s recast (slowga?)
-- No help text with this spell.
Unknown air based enfeebling magic (61), 32mp, 4s casting, 20s recast (silencega?)
-- No help text with this spell.
Unknown air based enhancing magic (61), 80mp, 4s casting, 30s recast (hastega?)
-- No help text with this spell.
Cura 3 (96), 60mp, 3s casting, 50s recast
-- 'Restores HP for party members within area of effect. Afflatus Misery: Increases healing potency.'
Boost-STR (93), 36mp, 5s casting, 10s recast
-- 'Enhances Strength for party members within area of effect.'
Boost-DEX (99), 36mp, 5s casting, 10s recast
-- 'Enhances Dexterity for party members within area of effect.'

Unlisted (in terms of job level, but appropriate spacing left for)

Banish V, 159mp, 7.5s casting, 45s recast
-- 'Deals light elemental damage to an enemy.Afflatus Misery: Increases spell potency based on the most recent damage you sustain.'
Banishga 4, 380mp, 5.75s casting, 1m recast
-- 'Deals light elemental damage to enemies within area of effect. Afflatus Misery: Increases spell potency based on the most recent damage you sustain.'
Banishga 5, 563mp, 6s casting, 1m recast
-- 'Deals light elemental damage to enemies within area of effect. Afflatus Misery: Increases spell potency based on the most recent damage you sustain.'

And 1 peculiar spell listed at ID494....

Black magic, earth based, self targeted elemental magic. 99 WHM. 0 (assuming mp cost is unfinalised) mp, 8s casting, 24s recast... Gaia perhaps?
-- No help text with this spell.

Also minor note~ there's a space below Divine Caress. Possibility of another Job ability...

[Sasaraixx]

That last spell is very peculiar. WHM doesn't have any native black magic/elemental magic spells so I'm quite surprised this is listed for WHM. Interesting.

May I ask where you found the info? I wouldn't mind taking a peak at some other jobs myself :)

[Aleste]

Since you asked so politely~

It's a program called POLUtils (easily googleable) which has an application called 'FFXI Data browser'. I believe you need a PC version for it to read the .dats from though....

The spells are listed under 'String tables -> common -> spells'

It kinda looks like this:
http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r465/Alestethewhitemage/databrowser.png

[Sasaraixx]

Thank you kindly~

Sadly I play on the XBOX so I am out of luck. I guess I'll just have to wait and see :)

[Semius]

If they wind up giving Banish III to PLD in the next update, then it would be fitting for WHM to gain access to Banish IV.

I always found it a bit silly how WHM could never learn Banishga III at any level, despite it being used by regular enemies. Maat even has access to it when you faced off against him for the limit break battle. For consistency sake, SE should consider giving WHM these higher tier spells.

[Lordscyon]

WOOT that is a great magic skill for whm when your tired of just curing all the time a little Holy nuke will jump start a whm boredom too excitement!