Aeonic Weapons- A Grand Opportunity for Balancing DD Jobs

[Safiyyah]

It's widely known that 2hander DD's (especially warrior and dark knight, but to a lesser extent dragoon and samurai) are weak right now. There are a lot of reasons why this is the case, but it's not too late to fix this for the last major round of content.

Give the Aeonic 2handed weapons very large amounts of accuracy, and tie them to powerful weaponskills.

Currently 2h WSes lag behind 1h ones like Chant du Cygne (this weaponskill is way too powerful!). There is no reason why this should remain the status quo. And dual 1h weapons have higher stat bonuses compared to 2h plus grip. To balance this, either give 2h weapons higher stats, give grips higher stats, or restore the ratio of attack/accuracy given by STR/DEX for 2h weapons to the old 1:1 ratio.

[Zarchery]

There is no such thing as game balance. It is a sasquatch everybody has been chasing for 13 years.

[Safiyyah]

There is no such thing as game balance. It is a sasquatch everybody has been chasing for 13 years.

You are wrong, of course. There is no reason why blue mage should be 30% ahead in raw damage of mythic dark knight (more as accuracy requirements grow!). There is no reason why dancer should be 40-50% ahead of mythic warrior. And when you figure that WAR/DRK/DRG/SAM aren't exactly solo powerhouses like the 1hander jobs, it's a fundamentally broken situation.

The 2hander jobs, excepting rune fencer which is fine, really only bring damage to the table. Blue mage, for instance, can do high damage. It can nuke. It can AoE cleave. It can solo high-tier battlefields. It can farm. BLU has benefited from many incremental buffs but it has grown out of control with the latest AoE nukes, Mighty Guard, and the strength of Chante du Cygne. CDC needs a substantial nerf, at least 30%, and BLU AoE spells should scale with number of targets. Dancer is nearly as broken, better raw melee damage compared to blue mage, but it lacks the cleaving utility.

[Tidis]

Is CDC OP? I tend to get more damage out of Savage Blade, the only plus side to CDC is that it can self-light.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

You are wrong, of course. There is no reason why blue mage should be 30% ahead in raw damage of mythic dark knight (more as accuracy requirements grow!). There is no reason why dancer should be 40-50% ahead of mythic warrior. And when you figure that WAR/DRK/DRG/SAM aren't exactly solo powerhouses like the 1hander jobs, it's a fundamentally broken situation.

The 2hander jobs, excepting rune fencer which is fine, really only bring damage to the table. Blue mage, for instance, can do high damage. It can nuke. It can AoE cleave. It can solo high-tier battlefields. It can farm. BLU has benefited from many incremental buffs but it has grown out of control with the latest AoE nukes, Mighty Guard, and the strength of Chante du Cygne. CDC needs a substantial nerf, at least 30%, and BLU AoE spells should scale with number of targets. Dancer is nearly as broken, better raw melee damage compared to blue mage, but it lacks the cleaving utility.

It does not need a nerf, others need a buff. Why is that such a hard concept.


Is CDC OP? I tend to get more damage out of Savage Blade, the only plus side to CDC is that it can self-light.

Nowhere near a certain Storm WS can be.

[Ulth]

It does not need a nerf, others need a buff. Why is that such a hard concept.



Nowhere near a certain Storm WS can be.

blu can /thf and sneak attack savage blade as well. I can't believe people are still complaining about rudra's after its damage was cut by 1/3. I guess anything to shift the aim of the nerf bat off themselves.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

blu can /thf and sneak attack savage blade as well. I can't believe people are still complaining about rudra's after its damage was cut by 1/3. I guess anything to shift the aim of the nerf bat off themselves.

I'm not complaining. It was a statement. CDC Isn't as powerful as Rudra's, I'm not asking for a change to CDC or even Rudra's.

Don't panic.

[Tidis]

I'm not complaining. It was a statement. CDC Isn't as powerful as stacked Rudra's, I'm not asking for a change to CDC or even Rudra's.

Don't panic.

ftfy.

If you're talking base unstacked damage, CDC beats Rudra's, stacked Rudra's will be stronger though.

[Ulth]

ftfy.

If you're talking base unstacked damage, CDC beats Rudra's, stacked Rudra's will be stronger though.

Of course thf can only stack a rudra's every 30 seconds or so provided the party is capable of teamwork, how many CDC's can a blue get off in that time?

[Tidis]

Of course thf can only stack a rudra's every 30 seconds or so provided the party is capable of teamwork, how many CDC's can a blue get off in that time?

Hmm with all the traits, especially if you're 100/1200 JP BLU then that becomes even more relevant, add in that CDC self-lights then BLU should be able to pull that off very consistently.

[detlef]

Balancing jobs around a weapon that's probably going to be pretty hard get doesn't sound like a good idea. Did Epeolatry balance anything?

[Kensagaku]

Balancing jobs around a weapon that's probably going to be pretty hard get doesn't sound like a good idea. Did Epeolatry balance anything?

Pretty much this. PLD is still the preferred tank at the moment, even against an Epoletary, because between Aegis and Ochain they've got most of their bases covered. GEO's didn't balance it, it just broke the job further. :P

[Safiyyah]

Balancing jobs around a weapon that's probably going to be pretty hard get doesn't sound like a good idea. Did Epeolatry balance anything?

That's why I suggested other options- higher base stats on existing/future 2handers and grips OR raising the 2h STR/DEX contributions back to 1:1. However, no matter how difficult a weapon is to get, at least it provides an option for motivated players to pursue for parity. Right now, there's no way even Koga SAM with perfect gear can beat a DNC or BLU with perfect gear.

As for Epeolatry, you're a bit off base. RUN and PLD are essentially equivalent tanks at this point. They each have their strengths and weaknesses. I don't think there's a mob that you cannot tank on either. Epeolatry is a very nice weapon, but it's not required for rune fencer to beat paladin.

[cengeal]

Nerfing is never the solution. Adjustments need to be made to DRK, WAR, and DRG. Adjusting 2H ratios back to 1:1 would certainly help. The truth is, 2H jobs should be the best DD's. It is so much easier for jobs that DW to get higher levels of ACC because they can equip 2 awesome weapons, vs 1 awesome weapon and a dinky grip. A simpler solution could be to just make grips better. Possibly introduce a "legendary" grip even?

Personally, I love BLU. I also love DRG, DRK, RUN and NIN. I put a lot of work into all of them, but ultimately I need to decide which job is the most beneficial to have maxed out. The obvious answer to that is BLU, but RUN is starting to payoff and NIN has its places where it stands out. But outside of getting JP's... DRK and DRG just are not as useful as the other 3, even if the party needs a DD. SE has always played favorites with jobs, and DRG and DRK have almost always been at the bottom.

I think all 2H DD jobs should get accuracy and attack bonus as traits, not one or the other. DRK suffers from not enough accuracy, DRG suffers from not enough attack. DRK WS modifiers tend to suck, DRG WS's (particularly Drakesbane) have bad penalties. Savage Blade is a better, more damaging WS than Camlann's Torment. I think the real problem is SE has a job hierarchy, and unfortunately these two jobs are on the bottom.

[Afin]

The problem you also have is the fact, DD's wipe easily, more hassle for the healers with current content, so with mages sc/mb from a distance with tanks holding, it would take something really bad (like a hate reset move) to wipe the entire pt, whereas DD's usually just fall within seconds of horrid aoe's =( Even if dd's got a boost to dmg/acc, more than likely you'll see most parties using a mage setup simply due to the fact dd's would get squished

[bungiefanNA]

So we'll be going from calling the set REMs to something else now. ARMEs is "weapons" in French. There's MAREs if we want to think of them as horses. Or it could just be REAMs...

[cengeal]

The problem you also have is the fact, DD's wipe easily, more hassle for the healers with current content, so with mages sc/mb from a distance with tanks holding, it would take something really bad (like a hate reset move) to wipe the entire pt, whereas DD's usually just fall within seconds of horrid aoe's =( Even if dd's got a boost to dmg/acc, more than likely you'll see most parties using a mage setup simply due to the fact dd's would get squished

This is another problem that cripples DD's, DRG moreso than the other ones. When the DRG dies, the wyvern dies, then the DRG is doing crippled damage for the next 15-20 minutes. DD's can't damage things while weakened the same way a mage can. I've also never been a fan of the fact that SCH can self SC as frequently as it can. I always thought it was stupid that a traditional back line job can self SC via abilities and spells. This is just a personal gripe of mine that I'm sure most of you do not share, and that is fine.

All the recent content is just not friendly to melee jobs. I'm hoping whatever new content they introduce with Reisenjima will be more melee DD friendly and more anti-SCH/BLM, which is just the opposite of current content. Maybe have monsters that absorb magic burst spells, which would result in wanting DD's, but they are still able to SC.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

This is another problem that cripples DD's, DRG moreso than the other ones. When the DRG dies, the wyvern dies, then the DRG is doing crippled damage for the next 15-20 minutes. DD's can't damage things while weakened the same way a mage can. I've also never been a fan of the fact that SCH can self SC as frequently as it can. I always thought it was stupid that a traditional back line job can self SC via abilities and spells. This is just a personal gripe of mine that I'm sure most of you do not share, and that is fine.

All the recent content is just not friendly to melee jobs. I'm hoping whatever new content they introduce with Reisenjima will be more melee DD friendly and more anti-SCH/BLM, which is just the opposite of current content. Maybe have monsters that absorb magic burst spells, which would result in wanting DD's, but they are still able to SC.

So you want another set of jobs to be left outside in the cold as well rather than asking for content that ALL jobs can do.

[cengeal]

So you want another set of jobs to be left outside in the cold as well rather than asking for content that ALL jobs can do.

The point was to even things out, so no 1 job is left out of everything. Unfortunately, this has always happened in the game because SE can't figure out how to properly balance things. DRG has pretty much always been left out of everything at the bottom, along with PUP. BST is only recently being appreciated. DRK has had moments of glory in the past, but the moments of M Kris/K Club glory days are long gone. The difference between these jobs and BLM and SCH is that those jobs have always had their niche in Vana'diel, whereas heavy DD's, with an emphasis on DRK and DRG, are typically forgotten about.

I wouldn't say I *want* jobs to be left out of anything, but certain jobs have always been better at certain things. What the problem is now we're bordering on the end of the game, and a lot of players are worried that heavy DD's will never be relevant again, due to the nature of content being so anti-frontline DD. This new content being anti-magic bursting would just even it out a little bit.

[dasva]

Balancing jobs around a weapon that's probably going to be pretty hard get doesn't sound like a good idea. Did Epeolatry balance anything?

It does if you are one of the few weirdos that got it lol. But no one will take you until you prove how good it works

[Tennotsukai]

I'm not sure I like you lol

[Tennotsukai]

Woops, messed up on that reply. Was supposed to be a reply to the blu nerf someone proposed. Can't delete a message using phone.