All the suggestions of late.

[Phafi]

Hello I have an awesome new suggeshttp://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/images/avatars/Flan.jpgWE HAVE NO PLANS FOR THIS

[Phafi]

I know, it must suck to be the bearer of bad news. I just thought it was funny.

[Camate]

Greetings,

I realize that this thread was made in jest, and that no ill-intentions were meant by it; however, I feel the need to explain our current mindset when it comes to replying to player suggestions.

Grekumah and the rest of the community team are constantly picking up nearly all of the suggestions you all have been posting, and we try (as best as we can) to get an answer from the development team. Even if the answer is one we feel may be disappointing, we strive to make posts with the information we receive to show that we are in fact reading over your feedback and not ignoring suggestions. While sometimes it may not be the answer you are hoping to hear, we would like to be transparent with future plans when we can as much as possible.

We appreciate the passionate suggestions and feedback that clearly demonstrate your love for the game, and we’ll continue working hard to pass everything on to the development team!

[Draylo-]

I've been nuking every Flan I see from now on!!

[Morovich]

Thanks for the reply Camate (even if I'm not the OP of this thread). I think a lot of players in my opinion, just see all these suggestions that would be potentially fun and what not and just keep hearing all these "we have no plans" responses and get disappointed, but it's good to know that the info you guys are providing is coming straight from the developers/development team.

[Gwydion]

Greetings,

I realize that this thread was made in jest, and that no ill-intentions were meant by it; however, I feel the need to explain our current mindset when it comes to replying to player suggestions.

Grekumah and the rest of the community team are constantly picking up nearly all of the suggestions you all have been posting, and we try (as best as we can) to get an answer from the development team. Even if the answer is one we feel may be disappointing, we strive to make posts with the information we receive to show that we are in fact reading over your feedback and not ignoring suggestions. While sometimes it may not be the answer you are hoping to hear, we would like to be transparent with future plans when we can as much as possible.

We appreciate the passionate suggestions and feedback that clearly demonstrate your love for the game, and we’ll continue working hard to pass everything on to the development team!

We already know what you don't have plans for...You are all very clear about that. Can you give us some insight as to what is coming in October and November? ...A small preview? A screenshot? ...something? ...The August and September updates have been such a heavy-handed suprise, that it just gives us all, a sad-sinking feeling. :(

[Zarchery]

Camate what kinda confuses me is this. If you have no plans to implement a requested feature, that's fine. It's sort of assumed unless you say otherwise. Why explicitly state this instead of just ignoring the thread?

[Kensagaku]

Because if they don't reply, people will continue to complain and wonder why the devs are ignoring them. By being told we have no plans, at least people know that they currently don't intend to do anything. Often plans do get changed, but it's better that we know what's not going to happen as opposed to guessing in the wind.

[Cowardlybabooon]

I like being told what's not happening, it allows us to move on to the next suggestion.

[Spectreman]

Greetings,

I realize that this thread was made in jest, and that no ill-intentions were meant by it; however, I feel the need to explain our current mindset when it comes to replying to player suggestions.

Grekumah and the rest of the community team are constantly picking up nearly all of the suggestions you all have been posting, and we try (as best as we can) to get an answer from the development team. Even if the answer is one we feel may be disappointing, we strive to make posts with the information we receive to show that we are in fact reading over your feedback and not ignoring suggestions. While sometimes it may not be the answer you are hoping to hear, we would like to be transparent with future plans when we can as much as possible.

We appreciate the passionate suggestions and feedback that clearly demonstrate your love for the game, and we’ll continue working hard to pass everything on to the development team!



Please, i know you are not in charge of it but try to make a lobby in there with Square Enix employees to keep this game running for 5-10 more years even without expansions. There is nothing like FFXI in the market and the mobile version is far from the pc experience.

I lost Everquest Online Adventures, then Tabula Rasa. If i lose FFXI i'll be like a cursed soul roaming around for a game that will never exist.

[Allestra]

Greetings,

I realize that this thread was made in jest, and that no ill-intentions were meant by it; however, I feel the need to explain our current mindset when it comes to replying to player suggestions.

Grekumah and the rest of the community team are constantly picking up nearly all of the suggestions you all have been posting, and we try (as best as we can) to get an answer from the development team. Even if the answer is one we feel may be disappointing, we strive to make posts with the information we receive to show that we are in fact reading over your feedback and not ignoring suggestions. While sometimes it may not be the answer you are hoping to hear, we would like to be transparent with future plans when we can as much as possible.

We appreciate the passionate suggestions and feedback that clearly demonstrate your love for the game, and we’ll continue working hard to pass everything on to the development team!

I have never said this about a cm post before, so it must be good to impress me, I am never shy to say whats on my mind, good or bad, abrupt or harsh........ but this post I honestly respect.

A+ of an answer Camate.

I much prefer to see a yes or a no instead of being ignored. It is appreciated no matter what the answer is.

FFXIV could learn a thing or 2 from this forum. We NEVER get replies about suggestions, hundreds can be made with utterly nothing in return.

A+ to replying at all. I do expect it as a customer, and it is extremely nice to see so many on this forum compared to ffxiv :)

[Alhanelem]

Greetings,

I realize that this thread was made in jest, and that no ill-intentions were meant by it; however, I feel the need to explain our current mindset when it comes to replying to player suggestions.

Grekumah and the rest of the community team are constantly picking up nearly all of the suggestions you all have been posting, and we try (as best as we can) to get an answer from the development team. Even if the answer is one we feel may be disappointing, we strive to make posts with the information we receive to show that we are in fact reading over your feedback and not ignoring suggestions. While sometimes it may not be the answer you are hoping to hear, we would like to be transparent with future plans when we can as much as possible.

We appreciate the passionate suggestions and feedback that clearly demonstrate your love for the game, and we’ll continue working hard to pass everything on to the development team! most of us realize you're the messenger here, and so bear no ill will, it's just frustrating sometimes to see that phrase so much :p In most cases, we realize that our suggestions aren't something that any dev specifically planned for, but that's the point- we want them to MAKE plans to do something.

At any rate, thanks for replying to this, it really is a great thing.

[Zarchery]

Because if they don't reply, people will continue to complain and wonder why the devs are ignoring them. By being told we have no plans, at least people know that they currently don't intend to do anything. Often plans do get changed, but it's better that we know what's not going to happen as opposed to guessing in the wind.

Damned if you do damned if you don't I guess.

[bazookatooth]

I think there's just too many one sided and / or negative posts personally. Occasionally there is some light conversation, but generally dev posts fall into 2 categories: "We had something that we decided to tell you about and this post seemed like the closest match (not actually in reply to the discussion at hand, but vaguely associated with)" or "We have no plans".

There is never any actual discussion on important topics. So the feeling I get is one of being talked at, not with. In my opinion, that type of interaction is best done via a traditional website. If one directional information where devs are not going to respond directly to posters and discuss what is being posted is the way that they want to do things, then that information should be posted on the final fantasy website (where people don't expect a response), not the discussion forum (where people have discussions). There is no exchange of ideas or opinions with the devs, so it comes off as if you are being ignored by the person that you are talking to. To be honest, the ones where they say "We have no plans" are the only ones that actually respect the idea of a discussion forum and for that, I salute them.

[Enochroot]

we would like to be transparent with future plans when we can as much as possible.

So radio silence over Monstrosity is actually a signal that it's not dead after all. Gotcha. Woohoo!

[Zhronne]

Camate made a really well thought, polite and touching post. Kudos to that.
Still, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not sure that's 100% exactely what a community manager does.
Aside from the fact they have a really intense/timeconsuming job and a plethora of different roles, many of which we don't directly see because they happen behind the curtains, their job on these boards is slightly different.

I'm sure they do their best to report things to the japanese dev team, but 99% of the replies we see in the english boards, aren't straight answers that the community reps get from the devs.
People might thing this is how things flow
Users report things on forums > Community reps report it to the Devs > Devs answer those things and community reps relay those messages to us.

This might have happened occasionally, but I think it's more the exception than the rule.
The flow described above is likely how it works for japanese users.
They open thread and make requests > japanese community reps report it to devs > devs reply (sometimes they make posts themselves) and jp community reps relay their messages to the original threads.
At that point the english community reps try to find a "similar" request made by non-japanese players on the english boards (it's not surprising that very often JP players and non-JP players ask the same thing) and when they find a "fitting" thread, they report the translated japanese dev post.

This is why sometimes the community reps make post in threads where it may seem a bit "out of place", it's because they were unable to find another more "fitting" thread, so they had to look for the best compromise.



tl;dr
What we see in the english boards most of the time, is not a reply that the JP devs are giving to us, but a reply they gave to a similar question made by a JP players, and the english community reps are just translating/reporting that to us.

[Kari]

we strive to make posts with the information we receive to show that we are in fact reading over your feedback and not ignoring suggestions.

Wouldn't it make more sense to just lay out all of your plans instead of going to every silly suggestion thread so you can say "No plans," though?

Honestly it's more annoying that you ignore good suggestions and give obvious replies to the dumb ones.

[Alhanelem]

Still, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not sure that's 100% exactely what a community manager does.Exactly what the title implies. Managing a community. Discerning their needs/wants/desires. Moderating communication channels. Forwarding concerns to the correct departments. That sort of thing.

It's a simple fact that the dev team mostly only can communicate effectively in Japanese. That doesn't mean that the community reps aren't taking our questions to them- it's more like you said where the JP and NA players share many of the same concerns/suggestions/etc, so what has been asked by us has also been asked by others.

[bazookatooth]

TLDR version: If the JP community has been asking about the same thing as us, the response will be translated to English and placed in whatever thread is even remotely related to the response. If the JP community has not been talking about a topic, it will either receive a "We have no plans.." type response, or no response at all.

[Dazusu]

At this point - it wouldn't surprise me if the roadmap for development is complete and there isn't much room to maneuver. I have to wonder if it's even worth posting suggestions - given that the final update is landing pretty soon; chances are the developers are already working on that final update -- where they're going to find time to add in additional changes from suggestions that are continually posted is anyone's guess.

[bazookatooth]

At this point - it wouldn't surprise me if the roadmap for development is complete and there isn't much room to maneuver. I have to wonder if it's even worth posting suggestions - given that the final update is landing pretty soon; chances are the developers are already working on that final update -- where they're going to find time to add in additional changes from suggestions that are continually posted is anyone's guess.

Of course there's a reason. You can still troll people by getting SE to completely screw up their favorite job for no good reason by whining about how you can't get party invites because X job is insanely OP.

[Alhanelem]

At this point - it wouldn't surprise me if the roadmap for development is complete and there isn't much room to maneuver. I have to wonder if it's even worth posting suggestions - given that the final update is landing pretty soon; chances are the developers are already working on that final update -- where they're going to find time to add in additional changes from suggestions that are continually posted is anyone's guess.
There will still be minor updates for QOL stuff and fixing bugs as necessary. They can also still do things that don't require code changes / rebuilds.

[Midnitdragoon]

There will still be minor updates for QOL stuff and fixing bugs as necessary. They can also still do things that don't require code changes / rebuilds.

i pray heavily to the final fantasy gods that at the end of the RoV story we are greeted with a "See you in Final Fantasy 11-2!!!" message.

[Alhanelem]

i pray heavily to the final fantasy gods that at the end of the RoV story we are greeted with a "See you in Final Fantasy 11-2!!!" message.
More like "See you in the FFXI phone game."

[bungiefanNA]

There will still be minor updates for QOL stuff and fixing bugs as necessary. They can also still do things that don't require code changes / rebuilds.

Pretty much, things that can be changed server-side without requiring a client update will be what they can do. That means they can change attributes of monsters and things like casting or recast timers. Adding things to menus will be out.

[Zhronne]

it will either receive a "We have no plans.." type response, or no response at all.
Nope.
Over the years you can hardly find replies (there are a few, truth be said) done by the community team that are not a translated messages from the JP devs/community reps.
Even the "we have no plans" are just translated comments from the JP forums.
It's just like that. JP players ask > JP devs/reps reply > ENG reps look for a fitting thread and post the translated reply.
Sometimes, rarely, they cannot find a fitting thread (because no english player has been asking the same thing yet) and they are "forced" to look for the closest thing, sometimes creating funny results like the recent thing with the COR thread about Guns and Daggers.

You won't see the opposite happening and there has hardly, if ever, been a situation where the ENG players asked for something that hasn't been asked by the JP players yet (which by itself it's not that rare of a thing to happen) and get a reply from the community reps.
Which mean that despite the good intentions of the community reps and wether or not they really report our posts to the JP devs, they just do not care for the ENG-only questions, most of the time.
Well "do not care" sound harsh. Maybe it's more about "they have no time to also do that, in addition to what they're already doing". Because I think it's more a matter of limited time/resources, rather than hate for non-JP customers lol, of course it's not that.


Different story for the bugs reports, technical issues and so on of course.
I'm not saying all this in a denigrating way, absolutely not.
I'm just trying to clarify that the community reps job is more complex and a bit different from how many people in here imagine it to be.
Talking about FFXI of course, it's quite a different story for FFXIV...

[Elexia]

Pretty much, things that can be changed server-side without requiring a client update will be what they can do. That means they can change attributes of monsters and things like casting or recast timers. Adding things to menus will be out.

Er...no. Things that require development, e.g adding full blown content and new zones, will be out as that's what comes in major updates. Client updates can continue quite easily unless from the get go they developed XI like they did XIV ARR to the point they can't do basic client work without the game wanting to hang itself.

[bazookatooth]

You won't see the opposite happening and there has hardly, if ever, been a situation where the ENG players asked for something that hasn't been asked by the JP players yet (which by itself it's not that rare of a thing to happen) and get a reply from the community reps.
Which mean that despite the good intentions of the community reps and wether or not they really report our posts to the JP devs, they just do not care for the ENG-only questions, most of the time.
Well "do not care" sound harsh. Maybe it's more about "they have no time to also do that, in addition to what they're already doing". Because I think it's more a matter of limited time/resources, rather than hate for non-JP customers lol, of course it's not that.

I don't think the community reps ignore us. I think the devs ignore us. Or more accurately, choose not to respond. I fully believe that the reps do everything they can to convey our posts to the devs and get responses. Let's be honest. If we were actually talking (instead of typing), I could tell you pretty much everything that's happening in this board every week and get your responses to every topic in about 5 minutes total. There really aren't that many. The devs just don't respond very often and when they do, it's not to us. I don't care how busy you are as a dev. You can scrape together a half hour every week to hear what your customers are saying and respond to it. I think it's more of a company policy to keep the discussion at a minimal in order to limit our expectations. If they actually responded to everything, it would give us far too much control and / or lead to confrontation with them. So they play it safe and interact just enough to make us feel like they don't hate us, but not quite enough to make us think we actually have a say in things.

[Dazusu]

I'm not saying all this in a denigrating way, absolutely not.

I love that it's so easy to get banned from this forum; you have to state and clarify the intentions of your post at the end of it to avoid a ban.

Good post though.

[Dazusu]

You can scrape together a half hour every week to hear what your customers are saying and respond to it. I think it's more of a company policy to keep the discussion at a minimal in order to limit our expectations. If they actually responded to everything, it would give us far too much control and / or lead to confrontation with them. So they play it safe and interact just enough to make us feel like they don't hate us, but not quite enough to make us think we actually have a say in things.

As a software engineer, who works on a team of developers producing an end-product used by thousands of people in the cloud; I can tell you from my own experience that developers being in contact with the consumer results in developers getting not much work done. The consumer is never satisfied. Developers should be shielded (seems like a harsh word to use - but it isn't) from the consumer and kept in an environment where they work stress free without worrying about the insurmountable number of threads/comments floating around about their work and future updates.

I would bet that hardly any of our questions get to the actual developers - same for Japanese players - more like the team lead/manager (someone who does very little, if any, work in the code themselves); who fields the questions briefly.

Of course; I am speaking from my own experiences of working in development teams over the years. SE might run their development teams very differently; but one thing that will never (and rightfully so) be on the agenda is developers stressing over what the end-user thinks. That's for the management.

[Alhanelem]

Er...no. Things that require development, e.g adding full blown content and new zones, will be out as that's what comes in major updates. Client updates can continue quite easily unless from the get go they developed XI like they did XIV ARR to the point they can't do basic client work without the game wanting to hang itself.

Like many game engines, there are two seperate things that make FFXI tick: the engine programming (probably in C++ or whatever language was primarily used in PS2 development), and the in-engine scripting (in some proprietary scripting format made specifically for the engine). The former will not be possible to update when the dev tools cease functioning. However, the latter can still be changed, since it isn't (at least, it probably isn't) a compiled language, it's simply interpreted by the engine as is. This scripting primarily is what powers quests, cutscenes and NPC dialogue, AI scripting, etc., so adjustments to these sorts of things are probably still possible as long as they don't require new functionality or require existing functionality to be fundamentally changed.

Let me put this in another way for you. Say you were making a game (or game mod) in Unreal Engine 3 (or older; UE4 uses a different system) using the freely released tools. You don't get the engine source (written in C++) with this. What you do get is the in-engine scripting system known as unrealscript, which lets you do a lot of things. What you can't do, for the most part, is modify the rendering system and other low-level engine components like the netcode etc. But you can do almost anything else with the in-engine scripting system.

Stuff in FFXI like blackouts during cutscenes on the consoles, those mostly require code changes to optimize memory use and stuff. Every patch seems to have new blackout issues- so this is probably why console support is being dropped, because they won't be able to fix these kinds of major issues anymore.

[Dazusu]

.....is what powers quests, cutscenes and NPC dialogue, AI scripting, etc....

Cutscenes are compiled into .DAT files and kept client side, and contain the NPC dialogue required within.
Other NPC dialogue that doesn't come from a cutscene is also stored within .DAT files.

Both of these are triggered by a simple ID which is sent from the server.

AI is server side; and very likely too complex to be a script - but rather a compiled module of the server software; due to the sheer amount of persistent variables that can change and must be remembered. In this context; a script is generally something that runs "from top to bottom; and doesn't repeat until called again"; whereas something like AI requires continual polling/events - outside the scope of a what we're terming a 'script' here.

Also note that the FFXI Client is, for all intents and purposes, a "TV screen". It can only do what the server broadcasts; and the server must validate every action. Without being able to make changes to networking code, which as you identified is compiled, they can't really make additions to the game in any capacity. I would guess that the only thing they'll be doing is keeping a single developer on to fix bugs in the software/server software that crops up - and make changes to database values (such as stats, levels of monsters, content requirement configuration, enabling/disabling events, features, etc).

I think a lot of people could be being a bit too optimistic about what's to come post November. Not that optimism is a bad thing; but keep your level of expectation low.

[Zhronne]

I don't think the community reps ignore us.
They pretty much ignore us AND the reps xD
In the end though, like I said before, I don't they do it because of "non jp players hate" like someone things. I think it's just a practical issue, they have no bloody time/resources.

Anyway I can totally understand your disappointment, I felt that way too.

[Alhanelem]

Cutscenes are compiled into .DAT files and kept client side, and contain the NPC dialogue required within.
Other NPC dialogue that doesn't come from a cutscene is also stored within .DAT files.The dialogue is stored in the DATs, but it uses placeholders and variables that are provided by the server, and the server scripts are what call those things to be played/displayed on the client.

They would not be able to produce new quests, cutscences etc the way they have if it all had to be written up in native code. If anyone in the original dev team had any sense at all, they implemented a serverside scripting system.


AI is server side; and very likely too complex to be a scriptThe way they can churn out trusts with varying AIs leads me to believe they have a solid scripting system in place. The AI in Unreal Engine is defined mostly in the scripting language and not in native code, as it is in other popular engines as well.

""from top to bottom; and doesn't repeat until called again"- that's not necessairly what a "script" is. UnrealScript for instance, is nothing like that. it is a java-like language built in to the engine, uscript can loop, call itself, call other scripts, etc. and it is used to define Kismet, which is a visual event scripting mechanic that lets level designers set up triggered events and gameplay mechanics. Now, I'm not saying FFXI is built in this way at all, but it is common for a game engine to have this seperation between things that are done in native compiled code and things that are done seperately using the engine's systems.


I think a lot of people could be being a bit too optimistic about what's to come post November. Not that optimism is a bad thing; but keep your level of expectation low. I'm not so much being optimistic as trying to explain that they can still fix or address certain kinds of issues and adjustments after major updates stop, which is something they've said they can do. I wouldn't hold out for any kind of new content, but there are certain things they should still be able to do.

[Arthos]

They pretty much ignore us AND the reps xD


They do not.
There is for sure a person, who's monitoring feedback data, be it subscriptions in relation to changes or collected data from reps. This will probably not be a programmer, but i could imagine that they also have a look at player feedback in a free moment or in their freetime. It's not very hard to check a forum here and then, especially if you get feedback to your work there. I would, almost everyone would.

[Zhronne]

From my very personal and biased point of view I 101% agree with you Arthos.
But then again the perspective Dasuzu offered us (about "shielding" devs putting something or someone in between them and the end-users) is also very mind-opening for someone who does not work in the development field on a daily basis.

[Dazusu]

UnrealScript for instance, is nothing like that. it is a java-like language built in to the engine, uscript can loop, call itself, call other scripts, etc. and it is used to define Kismet, which is a visual event scripting mechanic that lets level designers set up triggered events and gameplay mechanics. Now, I'm not saying FFXI is built in this way at all, but it is common for a game engine to have this seperation between things that are done in native compiled code and things that are done seperately using the engine's systems.

Yes. It's common in 2015 for advanced engines. But we're talking C for this game's server, not even C++ (again, assumption, but realistic based on the time frame of initial development)

Another thing to keep in mind; just because you can write scripts in a lot of interpreted languages (Unreal is not the only IDE/Engine to provide this feature); it doesn't mean that it's compiled and retained as a script (I have no experience with Unreal, so I don't know if it is kept as script or compiled/converted to ASM/code); but I think it's quite a stretch to imagine FFXI's World Server implements these modern design patterns. I'm not saying all of your suggestions and thoughts are wrong; obviously neither of us know the truth - but think about the technology that was available back when this code was written in 1999~2003 prior to launch. I assure you this type of software design pattern was not at all common back then.

Though I do agree that there has to be some implementation of server side scripting; but I think the ability for them to further content beyond the extreme basics is wishful thinking - unless they keep one or two programmers on full-time payroll. Just my 2c.

[machini]

Careful, you're inviting in the brigade of people who know nothing of programming and game design and logic to come in and tell you that you don't know jack shit because you've not put out a game of your own.

[Dazusu]

Careful, you're inviting in the brigade of people who know nothing of programming and game design and logic to come in and tell you that you don't know jack shit because you've not put out a game of your own.

By and large, they would be wrong. But that's okay; it's fun to have a discussion on this stuff. :D

[bazookatooth]

I know a few good people have been banned for talking about the internals of the game. Tread lightly is all I can say.

[machini]

I know a few good people have been banned for talking about the internals of the game. Tread lightly is all I can say.

Well, that's what happen when people assert copyright over a quite common programming mistake pretty much everyone has made at some point unless they're using a completely dumbed down scripting language.

[Alhanelem]

I know a few good people have been banned for talking about the internals of the game. Tread lightly is all I can say.
We're not going to get banned for conjecture and hypothetical discussions. It's not like we're posting a how to guide of reading data files or cheating or something unscrupulous.


Yes. It's common in 2015 for advanced engines.Unreal Tournament came out in 1999. It's older than this game. And there were also many other multiple-game game engines out there by the time of FFXI's release. This isn't new or even recent technology. It is extremely unlikely that every quest and NPC interaction is hardcoded into the game. It would make fixing problems, adding new ones, etc much, much harder and more time consuming than it already is. They have to be using a scripting system to drive these things. Sure, it's probably not as sophisticated as those available in game engines today, but it's a virtual certainty they use something of the sort (proprietary of course, since the game's engine is proprietary and I'm pretty sure wasn't used for anything other than FFXI)

[machini]

Alhanalem, you're wrong. I've spoken to someone who dig get banned for "copyright violations", the "copyright violation" in question being that he explained that a specific bug the player was encountering was due to a very common programming error. And that got him banned.

So yes, it does happen. They're so trigger happy to avoid any information about any exploits getting out that they will ban you for saying stuff like "Sometimes, in Windowed Mode, if you alt+tab, then alt+tab back, you run in a circle".

[bazookatooth]

Alhanalem, you're wrong. I've spoken to someone who dig get banned for "copyright violations", the "copyright violation" in question being that he explained that a specific bug the player was encountering was due to a very common programming error. And that got him banned.

So yes, it does happen. They're so trigger happy to avoid any information about any exploits getting out that they will ban you for saying stuff like "Sometimes, in Windowed Mode, if you alt+tab, then alt+tab back, you run in a circle".

Honestly, I've seen people banned for less than what we've said here, so this will be my last post on this topic.

[Alhanelem]

Alhanalem, you're wrong. I've spoken to someone who dig get banned for "copyright violations", the "copyright violation" in question being that he explained that a specific bug the player was encountering was due to a very common programming error. And that got him banned.
I'm not wrong. It depends a lot on the bug. If it's something exploitable and you post it publicly, you're all but guaranteed to get in trouble, and based on your post, that's pretty much what happened. There is nothing about what we've discussed that can be exploited by anyone, because, as I said, it's conjecture and theorizing.

I've not seen anyone banned for less than the completely legitimate discussion we're (or were) having just now. Anyone you know that got banned had to have done something- said a curse word, revealed an exploit, or something of the sort.

[Elexia]

Honestly, I've seen people banned for less than what we've said here, so this will be my last post on this topic.

Not on these forums - on XIV forums you can get banned for being right or making a casual cry because they can't admit to not being good at the game. Also the "copyright violations" is because of people with experience with the PS2 Dev kit (like myself) does know a lot about it, but at the same time they were dumb enough to post their reverse engineering of FFXI information on the forums. Otherwise no..it's very unlikely that was why they got banned.

I can safely say, explaining a bug in detail will not get you banned because they even ask you to explain in detail.

[bazookatooth]

Not on these forums - on XIV forums you can get banned for being right or making a casual cry because they can't admit to not being good at the game. Also the "copyright violations" is because of people with experience with the PS2 Dev kit (like myself) does know a lot about it, but at the same time they were dumb enough to post their reverse engineering of FFXI information on the forums. Otherwise no..it's very unlikely that was why they got banned.

I can safely say, explaining a bug in detail will not get you banned because they even ask you to explain in detail.

It's all in the context. Showing calculations that prove that an aftermath effect is not working per the in game weapon description: "No problem. Thanks for the bug report". Showing calculations that prove that most DD jobs can do more damage than BST pets: Banned. I'd hardly say that this conversation has been flattering to SE or other players.

[machini]

Not on these forums - on XIV forums you can get banned for being right or making a casual cry because they can't admit to not being good at the game. Also the "copyright violations" is because of people with experience with the PS2 Dev kit (like myself) does know a lot about it, but at the same time they were dumb enough to post their reverse engineering of FFXI information on the forums. Otherwise no..it's very unlikely that was why they got banned.

I can safely say, explaining a bug in detail will not get you banned because they even ask you to explain in detail.

That is not at all what the instance I am referring to was. The post for which the ban was issued was literally explaining a common programming error to someone, which under no laws of copyright anywhere on this planet is it possible to copyright a fact.

[Raydeus]

Flans always get the short end of the spork. :(

[Alhanelem]

That is not at all what the instance I am referring to was. The post for which the ban was issued was literally explaining a common programming error to someone, which under no laws of copyright anywhere on this planet is it possible to copyright a fact.
There can only really be two possibilities here:
1) There was leaked code and/or exact actual code from the game was posted. If it was actually literally SE's code (unlikely as it is), then yes, they could cite copyright.
2) They just have a short list of generic ban reasons to insert, and that was the closest fit whoever did the action could come up with, and it doesn't actually have to do with copyright.

At any rate, they ban people for a reason, not just for jollies, so you can be sure that there was a real reason, whether you agree with it or not.

Well, this has gone more off track than I expected... I'm sorry I tried to initiate a good conversation....

[machini]

There can only really be two possibilities here:
1) There was leaked code and/or exact actual code from the game was posted. If it was actually literally SE's code (unlikely as it is), then yes, they could cite copyright.
2) They just have a short list of generic ban reasons to insert, and that was the closest fit whoever did the action could come up with, and it doesn't actually have to do with copyright.

At any rate, they ban people for a reason, not just for jollies, so you can be sure that there was a real reason, whether you agree with it or not.

Well, this has gone more off track than I expected... I'm sorry I tried to initiate a good conversation....

I am going to say this one last time. Please pay attention.

There was no code posted. Someone explained a basic programming error. You do not have to post code to explain to someone one of the many possible ways to fuck up array usage, or pointer arithmetic. The person in question was literally banned for saying, "Based on what you have described, it sounds like the following is going on, and that's a pretty common error, and something that could have been easily missed since it's not going to affect everyone."

[Malthar]

There can only really be two possibilities here:
1) There was leaked code and/or exact actual code from the game was posted. If it was actually literally SE's code (unlikely as it is), then yes, they could cite copyright.
2) They just have a short list of generic ban reasons to insert, and that was the closest fit whoever did the action could come up with, and it doesn't actually have to do with copyright.

At any rate, they ban people for a reason, not just for jollies, so you can be sure that there was a real reason, whether you agree with it or not.

Well, this has gone more off track than I expected... I'm sorry I tried to initiate a good conversation....

I was banned for suggesting jollies with Naja Salaheem. I have a guess who did it, though. I think it was Abquhbah because he got jealous.

[Alhanelem]

I am going to say this one last time. Please pay attention.

There was no code posted. Someone explained a basic programming error. You do not have to post code to explain to someone one of the many possible ways to fuck up array usage, or pointer arithmetic. The person in question was literally banned for saying, "Based on what you have described, it sounds like the following is going on, and that's a pretty common error, and something that could have been easily missed since it's not going to affect everyone."
I'm going to say this one last time. Please pay attention.

They don't ban people just for jollies. It may even be that the person wasn't even banned for what you think they were banned for, especially considering the reason doesn't make sense. Unless you / the other user has had a conversation with a GM ingame about the ban (The GMs handle forum complaints), you can't really know the true reason for it, especially when punitive actions taken by SE staff can often be very delayed, so unless you've talked to a GM, you don't know that your quotation is what they were banned for.

[bazookatooth]

I'm going to say this one last time. Please pay attention.

They don't ban people just for jollies. It may even be that the person wasn't even banned for what you think they were banned for, especially considering the reason doesn't make sense. Unless you / the other user has had a conversation with a GM ingame about the ban (The GMs handle forum complaints), you can't really know the true reason for it, especially when punitive actions taken by SE staff can often be very delayed, so unless you've talked to a GM, you don't know that your quotation is what they were banned for.

I got temp banned for telling someone "I'm not sure what you were trying to tell me, but it sounded like an insult".

That was the entirety of my post. Just sayin.