Adjust Guttler - New BST gear for master and pet to be engaged on EG NM's

[Jile]

Now that SE has changed their entire stance on BST and we're now front line for the first time since BST's creation..... I was hoping this would be a good time to adjust Guttler and allow BST to remove it from storage and equip it for once.

Current stats:
DPS: 3107 DMG:145 Delay:280 Attack+40 Axe skill +242 Parrying skill +242 Magic Accuracy skill +215 "Onslaught" Additional effect: "Choke"
LV 99 BST

Suggested stats:
DMG:150 Delay:276 Attack+100 Damage taken -20% Axe skill +242 Parrying skill +242 Magic Accuracy skill +215 "Onslaught" Additional effect: "Choke"
Pet: Damage taken -20% ACC+20% Ready-5

Okay I know these stats wont be approved but regardless of where its placed, now that BST is a 'front line job' according to you SE, how do you intend on us surviving and having our pet still hit a mob, current gear doesn't allow for us to gear for master and pet to both be engaged and useful at the same time vs EG NM's. So now that we're pushed into this, please share with us what new amazing gear or stat changes are coming or came with this update that allow us not to be told go solo for the next 10 years? I've solo'd quite enough over the last decade thank you very much, I'd like to keep getting invites now and then for relevant content on BST.

Please don't turn this thread into another BST bashing thread, please keep on topic if someone posts something lets make it focused on 'what changes will be needed in order for BST not to be MP sink and remain useful as a new-front-line-job'.

[Arthos]

They said something about "midrange" for BST. I doubt the new range will be much less than 15' then.
You are right, BST can't melee on higher content now and maybe that will change anytime in future, but right now the range adjustment is just a cheap way to balance it into more risk.
So you are doing the same as before, standing at the side, but now you can avoid less AoE moves.

It may have been necessary or not for job wide balance, but it's a poor job design now, standing in melee range without engaging seems studid. So many players will switch to other jobs. Aim reached.

P.S. I like your Guttler, I would half the pet stats for balance, therefore add some ACC for master.

[Secondplanet]

I know you said to keep things on track but Dragoons have had to choose between wyvern stats and their own with accessories. The Dragoon's wyvern can't keep up with endgame content from the constant spam of AoE's and they have been a frontline job since day one. While i do feel sorry for BST they will have to choose between stats for them and their pets as all pet jobs do now.

I think it would be fair though to maybe give them some job traits to make up for it though.

[Kensagaku]

I disagree on the bit about wyvern stats. Generally, the wyvern can hit at a moderate rate with normal gear after being leveled up, and they're fairly durable of late. So we can scratch DRG off of the list for having to "make separate sets" for your pet aside from different breath sets.

As for the other jobs that have to "pick between master and pet," neither of them have to go into melee range and risk death by AoE. PUP is not required to (though that mileage may vary depending on the time limit on what you're soloing), and they additionally have many of their extra stats built in via attachments and maneuvers. SMN is not required to; their essential stats (pet stats, refresh, and perp cost) overlap quite easily, and since they don't have to worry about themselves, they can just sit in the backlines in their pet gear much like BST was doing before.

So really, this is just a straight up nerf. There's nothing putting it "in line with other pet jobs," because it now became the only pure pet job (I don't consider DRG a "pure" pet job, more a melee with pet support) that has to be at risk and has to juggle a combination of gear for two separate sets if they want to be useful at all. You switch any of your pet DT pieces to master DT so you can safely run in, and suddenly your pet's damage taken jumps up noticeably. You focus on your pet's attack/accuracy for a Ready move and suddenly your own DT is gone, making you take extra damage. BST has gone from being a safe sideliner to being not worth the constant MP sponging, which is poor design, imo. I feel bad for those who have wasted billions of gil on the best augments; I only completed about half of the sets I wanted and I still cringe at all the gil I've spent on what's going to be a lot more risky to use now that the range adjustments have been made.

If SE plans to make this viable, we need hybrid sets that focus on both master and pet together. If there's PDT or DT for the master, then that same stat needs to be reflected on the pet. If there's accuracy or attack for the master, that same stat needs to be reflected on the pet. Unless we have gear that affects both positively, then putting BST as a frontliner is just going to lead to a mass of player deaths or an insane drop in DPS when a pet dies, because pretending to be a Dual-Wielding WAR doesn't cut it when it comes to BST meleeing. We're not all -that- strong in the frontline.

One other possibility for this is to have the BST share its stats with its pet. The way pet food works comes to mind, in which both the master and the pet get a buff from it, though it's increased noticeably for the pet. With gear, perhaps that can be reversed; say we look at the Yaoyotl Helm, which gives 25 Attack and Acc, among other things. Perhaps give BST a job trait that allows them to pass some of the stats (let's say something like 50% of them, so 12 Attack/Accuracy) they get from gear to their pet, requiring less mixing and matching to buff up both. It would still require some hybridization (since in the example above, you'd only grant up to 25% PDT/MDT/DT from gear, requiring more for your pet to tank more effectively), but I think this would make it at least somewhat more tolerable when you can focus on your master's melee while still buffing the pet considerably. For Ready moves, you'd still swap to pet: Acc/Atk/DA/TP Bonus gear (or MAB/Macc, depending), but given how fast they go off, that'd just be a matter of timing it out to avoid being caught out of DT gear and the like. Between foods that boost stats and shared stats with the master, BST pets would still be somewhat viable even with the master being forced to melee in the front line.

Edit: Oh, and add it so that buffs hit pets. If that's the case, then we'll be completely 100% viable, even as a frontliner. Protect/Shell/Songs/GEO spells will all make it far more reasonable to hybridize the job.

[bazookatooth]

I just don't see bst melee being viable really unless they give bst an iLvl ready-5 axe and a change how dt- works for the pet/master. I don't think SE will do that. I think this was SE's way of telling beast masters to piss off. Even if they allowed the master to rock a full dt- set while maintaining a full pet dt- set and a ready - axe, it still makes most end game stuff too risky for it to be worth while to bring a bst. They've more or less decided that they don't want people to ever be allowed to use bst as their regular event job again.

[Olor]

Yeah SE basically just told BST players to unsub because we're never going to be invited to anything again. BST won't even be useful for soloing outdated content like abyssea anymore after this.

[Jile]

Yeah SE basically just told BST players to unsub because we're never going to be invited to anything again.

Sadly, I agree. I really hope SE considers they're going to be forcing BST to quit EG content for all intents and purposes.

I'd much rather see other jobs get a boost rather than see ANY job get a nerf, there's simply no point to it at this stage of the game to completely remove any job from usability from relevant content. BST has spent it's entire existence primarily forced to solo, this makes that much less realistic.

BST isn't just a backline job, its entire play-style since the beginning has required us to be at a distance. Charm a pet, send it, run out of range of hearing music, cure/buff, once pet dies get another rinse/repeat. Now SE wants us 'in the fray'. It's like telling a COR or BRD, you no longer can run around to do rolls or songs, you have to stand in one place the entire time and people run to you if they want buffs - I mean its that fundamentally askew.

'In the fray' play-style wont work for anything charmed, so lets start by removing that job ability and give us an ability similar to focus and another like defender which apply to both master and pet simultaneously. That would be a starting ground.

Additionally, we need hybrid gear since we're expected to be in 'danger', we need a PDT set that applies to pet/master, which has ACC and ATK on it effecting both pet and master. SE, seriously, unless you intend to with one "small" change, negate the ability to use BST in any serious content, major changes will need to be made due to this one "small" change.

[Catmato]

Yeah SE basically just told BST players to unsub because we're never going to be invited to anything again. BST won't even be useful for soloing outdated content like abyssea anymore after this.

So it'll be like 2002 - 2014 all over again?

[kylani]

So it'll be like 2002 - 2014 all over again?

Or folks who enjoy BST give up as SE and many of the player base want. I think of it as SE helping with closure and getting me away from SE games. :)

[Olor]

So it'll be like 2002 - 2014 all over again?

Except we won't even be able to solo anymore.

:(

[dasva]

I know you said to keep things on track but Dragoons have had to choose between wyvern stats and their own with accessories. The Dragoon's wyvern can't keep up with endgame content from the constant spam of AoE's and they have been a frontline job since day one. While i do feel sorry for BST they will have to choose between stats for them and their pets as all pet jobs do now.

I think it would be fair though to maybe give them some job traits to make up for it though.

Yeah but drgs don't really count on the wyvern for half their dmg... in fact just keeping the wyvern alive gives the master a huge boost in att/def and haste so in a way it's even less of a choice since choosing to help your pet stay alive also gives huge boosts both in dmg and defensively for the master. Plus there is the large innate DT and such.

As far as all pet jobs... um what other pet job stays in range? Smn certainly doesn't not with 30 second recast and not having to get that close to begin with. geo can for an extra debuff but often doesn't plus their "pet" also has a huge native dt. Pup can but usually doesn't and besides their pet already has a much greater built in survivability. Notice the pattern all the jobs that are near there pets already have huge built in dts for there pets. So they don't actually have to choose between survivability of the master or pet because the pet will have just as much survivability as the master when the master is in full dt set. Should also be noted that besides bst and drg all other pets jobs have pets that are fairly disposable able to put them back out in short order so they care a lot less if they die to begin with.

tl;dr to make this fair compared to what drg has to do you'd basically need to give the jug a native 30% dt and give them some kind of boost for keeping their pets alive like huge ja haste (which would be a good idea anyways considering they keep pushing fencer on bst and single wielding isn't a good idea for them without some ja haste)

[dasva]

Except we won't even be able to solo anymore.

:(

And there's no real charming mobs and just throwing them at stuff till it dies either.

[cebera001]

Like other day was helping ls in AA Elvaan Tough, being within 10 yalms to do move is impossible done like 2 readys and 1 shotted in full 119 gear and 1200 jps, they need to make range change to be decent cant even do iron giants and stand behind as your too far from pet its a absolute joke, hope SE can sort range out sooner than later.

[Jile]

Like other day was helping ls in AA Elvaan Tough, being within 10 yalms to do move is impossible done like 2 readys and 1 shotted in full 119 gear and 1200 jps, they need to make range change to be decent cant even do iron giants and stand behind as your too far from pet its a absolute joke, hope SE can sort range out sooner than later.

Sadly, they're happy with the Nerf and are making a cute placating adjustment that doesn't address the problem so they can say "we tried to make you happy - nothing makes you happy so we're done trying to".