To the Dev team Please don't let this game die out! Is FFXI 2.0 Possible?

[Skizzle]

Greetings all. It is my first post on this account since I lost my password to my other playonline 2 years ago. Do not be fooled by the progress on this character I'm a FFXI vet and started playing 2003 under Skizzle on the Ragnarok server.

Like MANY people here we grew up with this game under Tanaka and followed the progress with the years. This game has brought challenges laughter fun love to some including myself at one time companionship you name it.

If there is any way we as the consumers and players can make you guys continue doing this game as a 2.0 with better graphics etc? Kickstarter if possible? SE has been keeping two MMORPGs up at the same time for almost 2 years now so we know its possible.

With all due respect to Yoshi P and his team, FFXIV is not what we FFXI players where hoping for. I'm playing FFXIV at the moment with many of my FFXI friends from my old server but its just not the same. I think many players that play FFXIV that are from FFXI share these feelings. FFXIV was not what we signed up for and what we wanted to keep alive with our dubble subscriptions during its dark times. We never wanted a World of Warcraft Final Fantasy. Neither did we want a game where there is nothing to do now due to its lack of content and difficulty on regular stuff (Alexander savage doesnt count)

Don't let this wonderful game go to waste. Just touch it up a bit add better graphics and some new gameplay and i know people will come. I know I'm not alone with these thoughts. All good things don't have to come to an end. Instead they can flourish into something we all want.

Much love to the FFXI team and all the players here that are currently playing this game. Salute to you all!

[Elexia]

I'm pretty sure the only reason "2.0" wouldn't be possible is because they don't want to have FFXI and FFXIV competing with each other. From a developmental stand point, it's more than possible, that's kind of what the mobile client is, but a grand overhaul like XIV 1.x > ARR? I doubt they'd dedicate that much resources to it given the prior reasoning. If anything I'd support a remake or overhaul of XI in a heartbeat over XIV.

[peculiar]

They don't care about XI anymore, just the way it is. It's done.

XIV isn't doing very well but they will try to stick with that formula because if nothing else they can milk people with the cash shop.

[Skizzle]

Well let the players decide? All it takes is one kickstarter from SE.

[Zarchery]

Well let the players decide? All it takes is one kickstarter from SE.

Kickstarter is not a magic bullet. This is a business, not some guy in a garage with some knicknack he needs to start a small production run or some artist with a crappy movie idea. The payroll expenses alone in keeping a staff of programmers would come to several hundred thousand dollars PER YEAR. You think Kickstarter is going to pull in several hundred thousand from a 13 year old niche game with a shrinking player base?

[Skizzle]

Not really but something from SE to show they can meet us half way? They have the funds and if there is a market for something why wouldnt they persue? So lets see they went out and said ok we need to raise 250 000 USD from the players and we will start to work on a new FFXI 2.0 for the players. Thats very easy to see if there is a loyal customer group or not. If they see that ok the community and players raised 250k now we must do our part and fund the rest and make the game happen. Kinda thats how i view it.

[Allestra]

Hello Skizzle, I have read some of your thoughts in the ffxiv forums. (I am always there suggesting housing improvements regardless of what others think.. lol (I know I know...)

I have subscribed to ffxi for over a decade straight now, as well.

Anywayyyy!...imo, ffxi would of been wise to add the massive amounts of qol changes we have seen in the past couple years...many many years ago.

Any upgrading of hardware to improve in game functioning/appearance also would have had to be initiated years ago ...before so many left the game in order to maintain a healthy population now and a profitable enough one. Ffxi stayed very stagnant for too long in these areas. They counted on blind addiction to carry them through which sadly...has now caught up with the game.

I do however have no problems subscribing to both ffxi and ffxiv, even as a long time ffxi player, I enjoy ffxiv as much as ffxi, they appeal to very different sides of me.
I crave variety in gaming so for me having both (and others) is just right. Not one game imo is the best.

BUT none of this is meant to belittle your plea to SE in any way!!!

I completely understand the bond that we all have with this game, the memories alone are enough reason to ask for the game to live on. Im just uncertain any plea will do any good.

I have no interest at all in being a "hardcore" player in ffxi nor ffxiv, which may be why I enjoy both.

There are aspects of ffxi that are far superior to ffxiv for me ...and on the flip side, ffxiv has aspects that far exceed ffxi too. I take each one for the aspects I enjoy, and not try to pretend one is the same as the other or better then the other.

Although there are people that love the game, i think its simply not profitable enough any longer..I could be 100% wrong but looking at the population in game, I just cant see it being as lucrtitive as they need it to be now that ffxiv is in motion.

Again Im not saying that to imply its better, im just saying its more then likely more profitable.

Im not privy to any of SE true reasoning for stopping the major updates in Nov..all I can assume is that the population numbers cant warrant the resources to add more content, and when they are eventually forced to upgrade (due to hardware age alone), the cost may be too much in comparison to what the game nets idk , none of us do, thats just a guess.

I think we are probably fortunate they intend on keeping the pc version at least functionable. I have a lot of things to still do in ffxi, and am glad they are going to be keeping the servers running for hopefully many years yet ..new content or not :)

Every game has its glory days, and glory days never last forever, its just a fact..ffxiv will die down too, its a guarantee, ffxi suffered this many years ago already.

It would be great if they could keep the content flowing and keep growing the game, Any of us who still sub. after this many years obviously love the game (for our own reasons) and its not always about difficulty level or challenge. Its not only hard core players that have loved and supported the game (far from it) for over the decade +

At any rate, I hope you see a result from your plea.

I can sense the actual craving you have for the type of content ffxi has offered over the years. I dont think you will find that nowadays in other games. I do think this is your last hope for a game that satisfies your particular gaming needs. Who knows!! maybe they will surprise us all :o

[Skizzle]

Allestra: I wish it was that simple but I'm curious to why its not possible at all? They have 2 MMORPGS up at the same time and they can continue to do so. One that caters to casuals and people from WoW who love handouts and one MMORPG thats a bit midhardcore and hardcore like FFXI was. FFXIV still makes Abyssea and Seekers look hard xD.

I'm thinking if the Moderators hear our plea and actually bringing it up to the table for discussion it can go somewhere. Instead of flagging plush toys like on the FFXIV forums haha as if thats what we all want and we play FFXIV for irl plush toys xD.

[vienne]

I wish SE would take a risk with this game but instead they're taking the easy way out, they're not trying to attract more players with their grand ending storyline, they're just saying its over and they dont do anything to try and save ffxi. Its almost as if they hope that the playerbase will get so low that they can merge everything on 2 servers and then eventually pull the plug.
Why not do merges now? Why not cater to people who like xi and xiv by giving a fee reduction for playing both games? Why are they being so vague on whats gonna happen after november? Why the recent ban waves with the end being near? (bit off topic but what's gonna happen to monstrosity ;_; )

[Zarchery]

Not really but something from SE to show they can meet us half way? They have the funds and if there is a market for something why wouldnt they persue? So lets see they went out and said ok we need to raise 250 000 USD from the players and we will start to work on a new FFXI 2.0 for the players. Thats very easy to see if there is a loyal customer group or not. If they see that ok the community and players raised 250k now we must do our part and fund the rest and make the game happen. Kinda thats how i view it.

See, here's the thing.... There isn't a market. SE is a business. They collect and analyze business metrics, and if they thought it was financially viable to continue propping up the game they would. They're not just stopping new content updates for the heck of it. They ALREADY KNOW this would displease some people. Why do you people think they just woke up one day and said "Hey, let's just stop making new content. I'm pretty sure nobody will care."

Some rinky-dink Kickstarter campaign isn't us meeting them halfway... it's more like a little girl presenting her piggy bank to help her parents pay off a large medical bill.

And the game isn't shutting down. They're stopping content updates. There's still a crapload of stuff left to do.

[Stompa]

In terms of kickstarter etc. it is probably unrealistic. The only hope for the kind of external investment you're talking about is if there is an FFXI fan out there who is incredibly wealthy and willing to pour millions into the huge task of rebuilding FFXI without the PS2 shackles. A modern PC FFXI.2 would be very shiny and offer endless future upgrades on the PC platform. With a decent marketing push, it could be a huge success. It would take a long time to do, and cost a fortune. From what I understand, they would also need to locate experts who are familiar with PS2 coding, which may be tricky in 2015. So the savior of FFXI is a multi-millionaire businessperson, who loves Vanadiel, and doesn't mind spending a lot of time and money rebuilding the project, and assuming SE allows it.

As other posters have said, the game is not dying, just ending updates. So if you want the original FFXI to stay online, keep paying subs to it, and encourage friends to try FFXI. This game is more welcoming than ever to new players, in terms of solo-progress and QOL. Including RMEs there is enough content in this game to keep a player busy for decades. I'm actually thinking of joining a dating-site just so I can make baby-gamers who will eventually grow up and finish building my empy afterglow, after I'm too blind to continue. That is the kind of longterm content FFXI can offer you!

I can't actually imagine my life without being able to shuffle around in Windurst, or going ferry-fishing in stormy weather, see the dust-clouds and cactuses in Tahrongi Canyon, my Upheaval weaponskill (/grin), or the millions of other little things I love about Vanadiel. I try to imagine FFXI not being there, and my brain recoils in horror. How could something so wonderful stop existing, while at the same time the world would still be full of dreadful gutter-quality games. I can't even imagine such a world. I refuse to believe in such a world!

[Alhanelem]

With all due respect to Yoshi P and his team, FFXIV is not what we FFXI players where hoping for. I'm playing FFXIV at the moment with many of my FFXI friends from my old server but its just not the same. You're right, it just isn't the same, but nothign ever will be. Not even an "FFXI 2.0." It would be hindered from progress by people whining that this or that or the other thing isn't exactly as they remember. Nostalgia is a pair of rose colored glasses- Even if this game reverted to its 1.0 launch state, it wouldn't be the same as the first time we experienced it, because our existing knowledge of what the game was and where it went will affect our judgement of it.

At any rate, the game isn't going to just suddenly go away, as others said.

I don't want to see them put up a kickstarter, and I wouldn't back it if they did, as much as I love the game. Major established media companies like Square Enix should not be using kickstarters to raise funds- that implies a need they don't have. They have tons of money, it's really all a matter of what they do with it. And obviously their policy seems to be that only money raised from a particular product can be put towards that product. They certainly aren't going to divert funds from other games to make such a project possible.

Kickstarter should be used by individuals and indie studios to raise funds they don't actually have, and not simply as some kind of hype train.

[Obysuca]

Kickstarter is not a magic bullet. This is a business, not some guy in a garage with some knicknack he needs to start a small production run or some artist with a crappy movie idea. The payroll expenses alone in keeping a staff of programmers would come to several hundred thousand dollars PER YEAR. You think Kickstarter is going to pull in several hundred thousand from a 13 year old niche game with a shrinking player base?

To be fair, there have been times when an actual company has funded a sequel for a game off of kickstarter, even a game from the early 2000s and late 90s and got it fully funded for well over the goal, so it's possible.



I wish SE would take a risk with this game but instead they're taking the easy way out, they're not trying to attract more players with their grand ending storyline, they're just saying its over and they dont do anything to try and save ffxi.

Perhaps in Japan they're advertising it and what not, but they've done crap to advertise for XI outside of Japan. We got what? 1 commercial in like 2002 and that was it and it was probably only on tv once or twice lol From what I've seen, Japan's gotten promo events, tv ads and more, which if advertised outside of Japan as much as they did inside, it could have brought a lot more players.


They certainly aren't going to divert funds from other games to make such a project possible.


But they diverted funds from XI to fund XIV not only once, but twice? You'd also think since XI helped fund XIV twice, that they'd fund XI a little in return, but then again, XIV's not making as much as SE wants people to think lol

[Vanfrano]

We will probably know what their plans are for after November during Tokyo Game Show since FFXI is on the line-up. I don't know what to expect but I wouldn't get my hopes up anyway.
Also, SE already has a kickstarter-related platform http://collective.square-enix.com/ but I'm sure they won't ever use it for one of their own games.

@Skizzle and Obysuca, I see you posting a lot on FFXIV forums, my best advice would be to stop subbing if you are still subbed to FFXIV, the game won't change.
All in all, don't get your hopes up regarding a possible change of FFXIV, and don't get your hopes up either regarding FFXI, enjoy the game while it lasts just like we all do and express yourself with your wallet, this is the only thing SE understands nowadays...

[Zarchery]

To be fair, there have been times when an actual company has funded a sequel for a game off of kickstarter, even a game from the early 2000s and late 90s and got it fully funded for well over the goal, so it's possible.

What were the actual dollar amounts? What were the games? You can make a simplistic but fun game on a shoestring budget, or even alone practically for free. FFXI, like any MMORPG, is huge and complicated. You're talking several hundred thousand dollars a year in payroll alone.

[Obysuca]

What were the actual dollar amounts? What were the games? You can make a simplistic but fun game on a shoestring budget, or even alone practically for free. FFXI, like any MMORPG, is huge and complicated. You're talking several hundred thousand dollars a year in payroll alone.

Well, theres things like https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ysnet/shenmue-3 "69,320 backers pledged $6,333,295". That shows its possible, it's just a matter if SE will actually do it or not. If SE tried it for XI and reached that much or more, I'm sure it'd tell them that it's something that they might want to look into investing in again.

And let's be honest, if some guy can make $55,000 to make potato salad on kickstarter, there's no reason something that's actually worth it couldn't make enough money lol

[Elexia]

See, here's the thing.... There isn't a market.

Much like your thoughts on kickstarter, this too is incorrect. There's always a market for an MMO. The reason XI lost a lot of players is because new MMOs came out and XIV's development hindered a lot of XI's development since WoTG. XI made them the most money of any project. Ever. XI still makes them a decent amount of money. Revamping costs a lot of money, that is the only problem because they'd be spending a ton of money to compete two of their major MMOs against each other.

The only use of a kickstarter by a AAA dev is to see interest, much like Shenmue III was already being backed by Sony, so the kickstarter was more of an "is there interest/initial funding" - They have XIV up and running right now, so there's no purpose in bringing XI into a new light until XIV collapses in on itself..which it very well might if mr YoshiP doesn't actually..change things.

So yes, everyone, including businesses, should use Gofundme/Kickstarter, that's the purpose of it. Businesses don't print their money..which means they get money from us and money made on products don't always go toward one project, it goes towards salaries and other expenses, so a kickstarter for a direct project makes the most sense.

[Alhanelem]

But they diverted funds from XI to fund XIV not only once, but twice?Everyone says this, and everyone thinks this, but there is actually zero proof of this. I'm not saying they didn't, but there is absolutely no evidence that they did, only hypotheses and assumptions. Nearly everyone who posts on this forum resents FFXIV's existence so there's a terribly huge bias against it.

----

A kickstarter for this game would never be successful. Few people who have never played it would ever consider backing it (virtually all of such people would be FF series fans), and FFXI was never big enough such that a kickstarter could get enough backers to be funded. As said before, I also think it would be shameful of them to do it when SE is a well enough funded company that they could just do it if they really wanted to (which is why I would never back such a thing- I shouldn't have to pay any more on top of the the probably $1500 or so I've already given them since FFXI came out to get them to update or upgrade the game)

I've given practically as much money to SE for this one game as I've given to every other company in video game history combined for games. If that from me (plus from many of you who have done the same) isn't enough to make a difference, a kickstarter sure won't.

[Elexia]

Everyone says this, and everyone thinks this, but there is actually zero proof of this. I'm not saying they didn't, but there is absolutely no evidence that they did.

There's plenty of proof of this. XI is what funded numerous projects during 2006 on (when it was making the most money.) Name one business that would not utilize 250m+/month on things aside booze and babes. The biggest proof:

Wings of the Goddess.

Not only did it release the most bare of any of XI's expansions, it took the longest to complete not because they were "lazy." Look at Seekers. It finished in the usual time span XI's expansions tend to and it introduced many more systems in the long run. Then look at Wings of the Goddess. What project of Square Enix's existed between 2007-2010 that would take a sizeable amount of fundin? Look at 2010-2013..what project would take a sizeable amount of money? It's painfully obvious even if SE doesn't say it because you can look at any business and immediately see where funds are going. If XI was making over 200m a month..but it obviously doesn't show that..XI doesn't take that much to run and most projects back then barely touched the 100m+ development mark, so...

[Alhanelem]

I can see your reasonsing but it's still conjecture. That's far from proof of anything.

[Shirai]

Without going into the whole discussion at hand, I'm pretty sure a "2.0" version of FFXI isn't even close to being considered.
As it stands the whole genre MMORPG is a dying breed, most, if not all MMORPG are hemorrhaging subscribed players and there simply isn't enough fresh blood coming in to compensate for the loss of players.
The novelty of MMORPGs is gone, the novelty of FFXI is gone and a (one time) (fund raised) cash injection is not going to save it, maybe delay its inevitable demise for a few months, but save it? Nah.

It's been a good decade and some, and sure, if enough friends keep playing I might even add a couple more years to that if they keep the servers alive for that long, but all in all, good things come to an end at some point and all that remain are the memories of some of the best and worst years I've had in my life up to now.

[Skizzle]

Is there something we can do on our end to show SE what the players of FFXI actually want? If we get 20 000 people to pay 50 dollars and these 50dollars gives you a free copy of the game thats 1m dollars as a starter pack for SE to get Yoshi Ps head out of their booty to actually make FFXI possible. Ofcourse if its not 1000% sure no need to waste time but there has to be a way? Same game exactly the same game now just with better graphics and a bit faster gameplay

[Obysuca]

As it stands the whole genre MMORPG is a dying breed, most, if not all MMORPG are hemorrhaging subscribed players and there simply isn't enough fresh blood coming in to compensate for the loss of players.


Tbh, one of the main reasons why they're dying is because no one wants to take risks anymore (yeah, money etc), so they all play it safe and either go for the stale and overused WoW formula or go for a MOBA. No one wants to be unique or innovative anymore, it's all just a game of who can copy WoW / MOBA and last the longest on overused formulas.

Sure, older mmos copied parts of EQ and everything, but they also made some things unique to themselves, rather than trying to do a 100% copy with a different skin. That's essentially all XIV is, a watered down WoW with prettier graphics.



I do enjoy how on the XI forums, you can make a suggestions and what not and people actually have a discussion, but on the XIV forums, you make a suggestion that'd improve the game and out come the pitchforks and torches and people telling you to "gtfo and quit" and suddenly it's a witch hunt lol And they call the XI community "bad" XD Sure, theres some bad apples here and there, but XIV feels like it's just a bad apple grove with a few good ones here and there.

[Zarchery]

Is there something we can do on our end to show SE what the players of FFXI actually want? If we get 20 000 people to pay 50 dollars and these 50dollars gives you a free copy of the game thats 1m dollars as a starter pack for SE to get Yoshi Ps head out of their booty to actually make FFXI possible. Ofcourse if its not 1000% sure no need to waste time but there has to be a way? Same game exactly the same game now just with better graphics and a bit faster gameplay

If you have to pay $50 for something, then by definition it is not free.

[Zarchery]

Much like your thoughts on kickstarter, this too is incorrect.


NO

THERE

ISN'T.

If there was some sort of actual market, an actual economic business reason for SE to believe revamping the game would be profitable, they wouldn't go in the exact opposite direction of ceasing development.

Do you guys seriously think it just never occurred to SE that there would be existing players who would not like their decision?

Do you seriously think that their data warehouses, sales numbers, and business forecasting is somehow trumped by the "oh, there's a market for it, I'm totes sure of it" conjecture by random people who are not affiliated with the company at all and have no access to any of the Square Enix sales data? It's like saying "Oh, remember that show Selfie? ABC should renew it. I know there's a market for it because me and 20 other guys I know loved it!"

[Draylo-]

You do realize everything you are saying goes against what SE did with XIV? They had all their data warehouses, sales numbers and business forecasting showing that XIV was a complete and utter flop. They took the risk and decided to revamp it and see how it went. You can't mean to tell me they had indications that it would be a success at all? They went out on a leap of faith and tried to restore their image after that horrible initial release. Just because sales data doesn't point to immediate profit, doesn't mean they can't and won't take a risk. I know its obviously pointless right now because they already made their decision.

[Stompa]

FFXI only exists because SE have always continued to sail uncharted seas, to experiment and to leave things behind.

The "problem" with FFXI is that they created a much-loved cybernetic ecology, a virtual world, which was so atmospheric and immersive that many people stopped playing anything except FFXI. Some FFXI players stopped being interested in new games, even new games by SE, because those players had found that they were happy in Vanadiel, and also the sheer enormity of the challenges in FFXI were designed to take many years to complete.

This is not a criticism of SE at all, I am one of their Fangirls, complete with scars from haters who keep bringing it, as haters will do. SE have an organic development process (their words) and often travel with no maps for this largely uncharted videogaming sphere. Players are not simply beating a last boss and restarting the game, or simply going on hollow short-term MMORPG dungeon-burns to obtain a finished power-weapon in a convenient time, but in this case we see players who placed their loyalty into extremely long-term projects, and became very attached to their characters and the surrounding virtual world during those long years. This is a totally new undiscovered island in the wide ocean of videogame development.

It is something of a dilemma to create the perfect game, a world that some people don't ever want to leave! Or worse still to have fans who are too busy building five-year weapons in game "W" to even glance at the new games "XYZ" that the same company is selling. It is a fascinating picture, and will no doubt prove to be a case-study for future generations of game devs around the world.

[Zarchery]

You do realize everything you are saying goes against what SE did with XIV? They had all their data warehouses, sales numbers and business forecasting showing that XIV was a complete and utter flop. They took the risk and decided to revamp it and see how it went. You can't mean to tell me they had indications that it would be a success at all? They went out on a leap of faith and tried to restore their image after that horrible initial release. Just because sales data doesn't point to immediate profit, doesn't mean they can't and won't take a risk. I know its obviously pointless right now because they already made their decision.

The fate of FFXIV was still kinda up in the air when they decided to revamp it though. They hadn't already made a big announcement saying "NO MORE UPDATES EVER!"

They also did it a year or so after the initial failed launch, when FFXIV was a PC game that got off to a bad start. That was much more about salvaging a product launch that went poorly.

FFXI is a modified Playstation 2 game that is 13 years old.

I'm not really getting why so many people would want development to continue. I know some people have been very current on the game and devour new content as soon as it comes out. But I see an awful lot more people who missed the boat on earlier content updates and would now have a chance to catch up. I for one would kind of like to live in a world without perpetual fear of missing out.

[Elexia]

You do realize everything you are saying goes against what SE did with XIV? They had all their data warehouses, sales numbers and business forecasting showing that XIV was a complete and utter flop. They took the risk and decided to revamp it and see how it went. You can't mean to tell me they had indications that it would be a success at all? They went out on a leap of faith and tried to restore their image after that horrible initial release. Just because sales data doesn't point to immediate profit, doesn't mean they can't and won't take a risk. I know its obviously pointless right now because they already made their decision.

^. And XI was and still is and will always be far more successful than XIV 1.x. I liked where XIV 1.x was heading, but XI not only has a solid 13 years behind it...but it's already one of SE's most successful titles and technically, most profitable FF title to date when you really extrapolate it. The market is there. The problem is, XI is an older MMO, if they revamped it then it would come with more modern features. They did XI with the risk of it failing because:

1. Final Fantasy is not an online franchise.
2. It was their First MMORPG ever.

The only reason, as said, that it isn't feasible to do a '2.0' of XI, is the fact XIV is currently running. If they left XIV in the dirt and focused on XI..we'd be playing FFXI Recollection or whatever right now.

Also:


they wouldn't go in the exact opposite direction of ceasing development.

There are no more kits to continue development. which means they would indeed have to overhaul the game and once again: With FFXIV running, it would be senseless to compete the two, let alone spend that much money revamping it when they're in active development for FFXIV. A market is a market, look at DQX..Dragon Quest is significantly more popular in Japan than Final Fantasy yet they continued to run the originally WII BASED MMORPG despite being an extremely niche market.


The fate of FFXIV was still kinda up in the air when they decided to revamp it though. They hadn't already made a big announcement saying "NO MORE UPDATES EVER!"

Actual Announcement:
"Novembers version update will the last major update however quality of life and balancing patches will continue."

Even then, they never gave a definite to FFXI - Just when november comes is when we actually find out what's what. Also, FFXIV had an even more major announcement: It was shutting down and a new version will take its place.


FFXI is a modified Playstation 2 game that is 13 years old.

Even Maplestory went through an overhaul, relaunch and getting a sequel..it far from failed. Age doesn't matter, if they want to they will. Like I've said, the main reason to not do it is because XIV is currently their developmental focus in terms of FF MMOs, if they relaunched XI it'd just be trying to compete two FF MMOs against each other for no reason.

Otherwise in terms of possibility? More than possible. There's a market for it (you just think otherwise) and they wouldn't be making a mobile client to XI if they really did want to get rid of the IP. It all comes down to November.


I'm not really getting why so many people would want development to continue. I know some people have been very current on the game and devour new content as soon as it comes out. But I see an awful lot more people who missed the boat on earlier content updates and would now have a chance to catch up. I for one would kind of like to live in a world without perpetual fear of missing out.

And this is why MMOs like FFXIV, for the lack of a better phrase, are boring as hell in the long run because everything is homogenized and technically goes against everything an MMO was. It's fine to have that preference..but you miss out you can still catch up, but the major difference is, newest MMOs tend to invalidate content and prior accomplishments - this is why it'd be tricky for an XI revamp, because a lot of XI's content felt like accomplishments.

In XIV..even beating Alexander Savage 3 didn't feel like an accomplishment because I know it's going to be meaningless come the next update. If you join FFXI now..you have plenty of content you can do mostly just to see the content or experience the story (what a lot does in XIV) but at the same time in any MMO, the most current content is what you'll want to focus on. A revamp to XI also means a revamp of all content which means theoretically, XI "2.0" could launch with the most content of any MMORPG in existence if it truly wanted.

All in all..until we see how successful or not XIV remains, they may or may not revisit XI. I personally hope they do because quite honestly, XI is the better of the FF MMOs, but XIV is the most "mainstream friendly" one.

[Belmonts]

All we can do is to hope that, after ending Xbox 360 and PS2 support, they might reconsider to revamp the game. And after that maybe to keep their multi-console tradition and move it up to PS4 and/or Xbox One.

Hey, one can dream, right? :3

[Stompa]

The reason I am interested in longterm characters in videogames is that I started playing my AD&D tabletop roleplaying character in 1982, and this character is still alive and adventuring after 33 years. The group I play AD&D with are lifetime characters that the same group have spent our lives adventuring as. It produces fascinating scenarios, the group will make jokes about what their characters did decades ago, and we have memories constantly. There are storylines that have been returning for decades, and enemy arch-villains who have hunted the group relentlessly for 33 years!

It is very rewarding to become so attached to a group of characters in a fantasy world, and remain bonded to them for almost half a century. It is also an enjoyable challenge to write advanced adventure-modules for such high level ancient characters, how to keep the story alive and pay respects to the characters' long lives and cultural integrity.

This is why FFXI fascinated me so much in the beginning, because it has a similar element of longterm character development. But at the same time I realise that this is all bound into an arcade-battle computergame, and it is not like tabletop roleplaying characters, who are immensely detailed and realistic compared to videogame characters. In advanced groups of AD&D players, the character-player bond is sacred and immense, players feel the sorrow and joy that their characters experience, on a deep personal level. I could insult a player in my roleplaying group personally, and they would shrug, but if I insulted their fantasy character I'd be in serious trouble!

This is actually why I am very sympathetic to SE at this time, they have the same problem as I have in my Dungeon-Master role. If I told my players that I could not write any more adventure-modules for their characters, they would be devastated, it would make all our lives sorrowful if we couldn't adventure together again as we always have done. I see this as similar to this discussion thread, about players wanting to keep Vanadiel and their characters alive.

FFXI will always be my favourite computergame, and I will always play it for as long as it is available. I also understand the problems inherent in running any longterm-character roleplaying games, and how problematic this becomes when translated to the fickle and fleeting computergame market.

[Muras]

In regards to the future of FF11 though, one thing I found interesting is that it is going to be at Tokyo Game Show this year, as shown on SE's TGS page:

http://www.jp.square-enix.com/tgs15/titles/

For those who're wondering, FF11 hasn't been at TGS for years, and I doubt all they're going to talk about is Rhapsodies. Perhaps we'll get more info on that new mobile client? I dunno, but hopefully some (good) surprise announcements. Hopefully...

Anyways, as far as FFXI 2.0 goes, I'd be happy with just continued content. The game is dated, sure, but I don't care if it gets a graphical overhaul. I just want to see the rest of the world... More of the East, more of Ulbulka, I wanna see the north and the Mithran Homeland. And I want to see it in FF11 itself, not some weird pseudo-spinoff Vana'diel (Those mobile games they announced for Japan only). I've been a FF11 player since NA PC launch because I enjoy the storylines, and the gameplay suits my tastes. I like that I have hundreds of spells and abilities at my disposal across multiple jobs, unlike the handful in FF14. I mean, I currently have 147 spells as SCH/rdm alone and almost all of them have some use. That is awesome.

I have to say, Matsui and the other current devs have done a phenomenal job the past few years. I feel that a lot of the things they've done are things that should've happened years ago, so it kinda gives a feeling of "too little, too late". I still recall interviews of the old Producer, Tanaka, answering questions about certain topics and always saying stuff like "Too hard", "Too expensive", "Too little resources". But here we are years later, with less developers and a smaller budget, accomplishing things on the game client nobody would've ever expected to happen. It's because these things were missing all these years that the game got to where it is today (In my opinion). The game was successful, but it could've been even more so if SE just bit the bullet and put the resources into the game when they were needed, rather than slowly turn the tap lower over the years.

I'm not trying to jab too much at Tanaka (I do feel bad for him, FF14 and all) and SE, since they did a lot of good things too. But it wasn't too hard, it wasn't too expensive, and they did have the resources. Knowing this, it's just a tad bit angering.

With that said though, the past is in the past. I still have some (probably impossible) hopes that they were smart enough to develop a new PC client alongside the new mobile one, and that FF11's core gameplay remains untouched. Perhaps along with this new client, they might've developed new tools to create new content. It's a long shot, but until we get more details I may as well hope a little.

My older brother was actually excited to hear the game was being ported to mobile devices, who hasn't played since probably 2004. But hopes were quickly shattered when I told him the PC and mobile users would be on different servers, so that was that. It's PC or nothing for me... I can't stand playing games on a Nintendo 3DS, much less my smart phone.

I'll stay with FF11 for now, and enjoy it while I can. I'm just worried I'll run out of things to do sooner than later...

[Draylo-]

Oh wow I didn't know FFXI was gonna be at TGS.

[Skizzle]

Zachery: Don't be such a negative nancy. It almost feels like you are beeing paid by Yoshi P to be so anti future of FFXI. Incase you forgot what happened during 1.0 when Yoshi P took over he pretty much begged people to stay and pay for FFXIV so the project wouldnt be scrapped. Some FFXI players had double subscriptions and some who just came to 1.0 continued to pay. So if thats possible a FFXI revamped kickstarter can also be possible. You keep talking about business and market and all other stuff thats pretty much captain obvious to anyone that knows business but guess what? SE didnt even bother to try to go the same path with asking the players like Yoshi P did for FFXIV. Let them ask first and see if people are willing to be ask them to make the donations aswell. If that hasnt even been tried yet you kinda can't sit here and babble about your business knowledge. They have had 2 MMORPGs up and running at the same time and they can continue to do so if they wish. As long as there is a market! The market has not even been asked or addressed. So to anyone here but the negative nancy how can we start a kickstarter? Does anyone know people on the SE staff on social media to start somewhere?

Note that SE used the oldest marketing trick in the book when it came to saving FFXIV we all fell for it and got burned so hard when they picked a director who had no FF knowledge and came straight from WoW and DAoC. Confirmed rumours also is that Tanaka never left SE at first. He was to work under Yoshi P but he left when he saw what Yoshi P wanted for FFXIV wich was the opposite of Tanakas work meaning to create something unique that is not a WoW clone. Since these two don't get along on the bestest of terms now think about this aswell. In a interview with Yoshi P from last year during some event he said he was not interested in the FFXI players cause its not the same game. You can't tell me that a person has not had an ego trip when the answer is like that? Instead of saying regardless of what happens to FFXI they shall always feel they have a home in FFXIV and Eorzea.
Also I'm pretty sure someone with health reasons wouldnt get a high position on Gungho Online :)

Pretty much this is not too late we just have to talk to the right people if someone knows where to start I have people willing to invest and we are talking in the 10 000 dollars categories from multiple people.

[Stompa]

In regards to the future of FF11 though, one thing I found interesting is that it is going to be at Tokyo Game Show this year, as shown on SE's TGS page:

http://www.jp.square-enix.com/tgs15/titles/

For those who're wondering, FF11 hasn't been at TGS for years, and I doubt all they're going to talk about is Rhapsodies. Perhaps we'll get more info on that new mobile client? I dunno, but hopefully some (good) surprise announcements. Hopefully...



I want to believe! But at the same time, it is doubtful they would have told everyone the stuff they told us a few months ago, if they had any intention of announcing any FFXI 2.0 at TGS. I hope I'm wrong!

It could be a tribute presentation, to mark the lifetime of FFXI, and to present the final-form, completed game. Many casual / returning players still seem confused about the end-of-updates / end-of-game issue, and didn't understand the recent announcements. Maybe the TGS presentation is to say that "hey the game is still available, and now it is completed, look at the final storyline and all the great QOL work we did in recent years, please try FFXI again and enjoy all the improvements!"
:)

[Krystal]

Let me lay a few facts on the table for ya:

1. Abby was literally SE's attempt at forcing a cyanide tablet down this game's throat.

Skeptical? Well lets look at everything FFXI stood for prior to abby:

1.A game that required Patience.(You couldn't fly to lvl cap in a week)
2.A Game that required skill.(I'd loved to see people beat half the bosses in the COP storyline without a strategy prior to walking in. XD)
3.A game we could brag that was far superior to WoW in every way due to its challenging, no handfeeding, if not hardcore layout.

These three things and more are what made players love FFXI.

And what did abby do it?

Destroyed every single thing above that we loved about the game by turning it into an easymode, skyrocket to 99 in less than week, WoW-rip style setup except without better looking graphics.

Now you make still be skeptical and go: "But why would they do that when it was their top MMO they have going?!"

One reason:

FFXIV 1.0

They wanted us FFXI to abandon FFXI and flock over to their new MMO so they could pull the plug on the FFXI servers but there was just one, intsy,wincy, little problem with this....

FFXIV 1.0 BOMB-SHELLED SO HARD IT WOULD MAKE A NUKE GOING OFF LOOK LIKE A FIREWORKS DISPLAY!

It was at this point that SE looked at FFXI, currently gagging and gasping for air thanks to that cyanide tablet they shoved down its throat and panicked!
SE REP: "OH SHIT! Our new MMO bombed and nearly everyone has abandoned FFXI since we tried to kill it! What do we do?!"

In comes an expansion for FFXI when one hasn't been released for it in over 5+ years: Seekers of Audouin.

This was SE's attempt at bringing back the gaming pop they purposely tried to get to quit.

However the damage had already been done and was irreversible.

So while FFXI rested on its deathbed with the lifesupport known as its newest expansion, Yoshi p. and crew remade FFXIV and with the full intention of making it a WoW-rip to appeal to the waning WoW player population who had begun to lose interest in the crack addiction.

Turned out to be a huge a success...for about a year.

[peculiar]

Oh wow I didn't know FFXI was gonna be at TGS.

It's going to be the mobile ap run by nexon, I bet.

If not and they actually are going to do something with this game except drown it, I'll be all over it again.

Right now they lost a lot of players, they didn't all move to XIV as they planned. Lets see if they are smarter than I take them for.

[Olor]

I'd love to see this game continue. I personally don't care about the graphics but other people feel differently. I do have to say if they had FFXI with FFXIV's graphics - FFXI would POUND FFXIV into the ground in terms of subs.

[Tidis]

Krystal, opinion is not fact.

[Krystal]

Okay, Live in denial. Your the idiot who can't see what really happened while everyone else can.

[Elexia]

He does have a point actually. Abyssea wasn't a 'cyanide pill' for XI, it was content always planned which got revealed during XIV's initial launch reveal. It is obvious they'd hope people move over to XIV..but they weren't trying to kill off XI.

You do not kill off something that prints hundreds of millions a month for you.

[Krystal]

He does have a point actually. Abyssea wasn't a 'cyanide pill' for XI, it was content always planned which got revealed during XIV's initial launch reveal. It is obvious they'd hope people move over to XIV..but they weren't trying to kill off XI.

You do not kill off something that prints hundreds of millions a month for you.

It's a marketing tactic as old as time that companies have used over and over again. They want you to use their new product instead of the old one they don't want to keep making/managing. So they rig it to die out in one way or another so the demand for said product drops while at the same time, they release a new product claiming it to be ten times better than the other one.

[Draylo-]

That would make 0 sense, especially since FFXI costs MORE than FFXIV in most cases (9.99 a mo for legacy prices in XIV.) Why would they want people to stop playing the old game when they game paid either way?

[Cowardlybabooon]

I think another server merge in FFXI would drastically alleviate the feeling that the game is dying. There is plenty of content in FFXI at the moment and the graphics totally stop mattering when you stare at the game every day. I've suggested before that SE could go a long way just increasing the level of the mobs and the drops in a lot of the older content that didn't go over so well such as legion and meeble burrows, as well as the retired content such as Sky Gods and Kirin. But special attention would need to be paid to making sure that Best in Slot pieces came from all of the various content, rather than just one type. We don't know what they have in store for the final update though, and I doubt they will leave us hanging given their recent positive track record with new content and the way they have successfully incorporated Delve, Vagary, Unity and various other events into the Escha pop system.

Regarding actually attempting to get players back from FFXIV though, I think a content re-hash/level-up would make a lot more sense than a graphics overhaul, considering the entire game was written for PS2 and they've been extremely open about the fact that there simply is no more development hardware available in the world. They would have to rewrite the basic code of the entire game. If you didn't read the director's post about this, then don't assume you know more about it when replying :-)

[Skizzle]

Cowardlybaboon: I've missed you brother! I'm glad to see that you are still around :)

[Alhanelem]

It's very interesting that FFXI is going to be at TGS. Although I'm personally assuming it's something about Grandmasters (since that's not coming out here) or the mobile game. I'd be more invested in learning about the mobile version if it was actually a client for the same game, but since it is something seperate, it just won't work for me.

I want it to be clear that while I am playing FFXIV and I enjoy it, I really want XI to stay alive. I want it to always be there for me to come back to- it's been a part of my life for so long, that even though I'm not the active player I used to be, I'd be very saddened if I felt the urge to play it and went to do so only to discover it wasn't there. FFXI was actually the first true Final Fantasy game I ever played (I played Final Fantasy Adventure and Final Fantasy Legend 1 on Game Boy, but those aren't actually FF titles- They were branded with the name to sell them. FFA is actually the first title of the Mana series- it would later get a remake on Game Boy Advance called Sword of Mana; and I forget what the FFL games were known as in Japan, I just know they aren't really FF). I'm somewhat cynical about this appearance meaning anything good for NA fans, but part of me is hopeful.

It's doubtful FFXIV will ever have Puppetmaster, so FFXI is like to forever be chained to me in that respect. :D

---------

About abyssea:

While Abyssea in some ways was a mistake for the game, I think it's pretty absurd to argue that they deliberately created it to push people away. This argument is absurd on many levels, not the least of which is the fact that if they deliberately alienate customers, they probably won't buy or play another SE product. Their marketing team would have to have lost their marbles to think that they could push players towards FFXIV buy deliberately ruining FFXI for its current players. It wouldn't work, it obviously hasn't worked- More of my friends that quit FFXI are not playing either (or any) MMO, than are playing both or have moved to XIV. This kind of behavior would permanently lose a quitting customer, not regain them in another game.

Abyssea itself was not bad at the time. Most people I know enjoyed it, the power trip was fun, and that's essentially what it was- a power playground. The real defect with abyssea was it was basically impossible for the team to develop any content that could live up to the fun and excitement that Abyssea intiailly had- Thus, when Abyssea began to wear off, there was nothing that could adequately fill the void it left. Voidwatch (lol) made an attempt at this, but it seems like it wasn't quite enough. It's other main defect was trivializing the level-up process, which more or less killed traditional parties for leveling up. Since for some people this was their favorite part of the game, that really stung for some (while others who only cared about endgame and were done with leveling up after their first few jobs were not so bothered).
TL;DR: It's not unfair to blame Abyssea for the game's decline, but it is somewhat unfair to say abyssea itself was bad. Abyssea indirectly damaged the game through the effects it had on future content and on leveling.

[Vold]

Okay, Live in denial. Your the idiot who can't see what really happened while everyone else can.I tend to think of Abyssea as more of an attempt at keeping FFXI subs subbed to FFXI while those people subbed to FFXIV, too. Anyone in their right mind would assume that all FXI players would at least give XIV a shot. In the event they liked it, Abyssea was their way to lure them into paying for both because as far as SE was concerned, the release of XIV would totally terminate XI's existence unless they did something about it. It's the reason we're where we're at today in this game. The question is, were they right? Would the playerbase abandon pre-abyssea FFXI in favor of a much more time forgiving XIV? Well, we got us all here still. Our pops got hit hard when 2.0 was released. We got hit not so hard when 1.0 released but our pops never recovered after that version failed, so obviously people went elsewhere because they were tired of FF, period.

Anyway I don't see Abyssea as an attempt to sway people toward FFXIV, at all. It was obviously designed to turn the game on it's head and peak the interests of players with a mind blown cap raise, exp rates on steroids, an enjoyable buffing system to experience what we never have before, an end game designed to put those buffs to use, and a new method of earning loot by using procs to increase drop rates and made use of all jobs in the game that tied everything nicely together. Overall Abyssea was incredibly well done and very enjoyable as a result. If their goal was to push people over to XIV, they failed miserably. What they did do, however, was fail to make Abyssea perfect because it had armies of bored people waiting for a proc to go off. I lost quite a few casual friends in game when they got tired of Abyssea and quit. The only thing worse than low drop rates is low tolerance levels.



Sorry, but I look at Abyssea and procs and ever since as their way of improving the status quo of XI as it was to keep interest in the game. Who's to say if it worked or not. We can speculate, but we'll never know. Don't get me wrong, I have preached here time and again I believe that SE would love nothing more than to be rid of supporting this old PS2 game. But at the same time, money is money and that's why they do what they do, for money. I'm sure they love making games, but let's face it...they wouldn't if they weren't getting paid. They have no reason not to try to keep XI going, but the day it dies they will not shed a tear. They'll probably throw a party and look to the future.

[hakrev]

Honestly I don't get the entire "abyssea ruined ffxi" sentiment that ppl seem to have. The subscriptions were highest during abbysea. I've played since NA pc release and I have never once seen more ppl log in or more accounts created than I did during the time abyssea was going on. It was fun working as a team to get seals and fight huge bosses and FINALLY we were doing some damage. Before abyssea we dealt crap damage and were made to feel weak and pathetic no matter how amazing our gear was or how well we played. Don't believe me? Pandimonium Warden, look it up from when it came out. Disgusting elitist content that was clearly out of control. Beyond that we were forced to be a part of slave-like linkshells to get our relic gear. You had to sometimes spend MONTHS to save up "points" to get a chance to lot on gear for your main job that you came as and forget about making a relic, only Dyna ls leaders had a chance at that. So, Finally they made content achievable and attainable that was actually not elitist and BOOM, we had a huge amount of players.

Adoulin is what killed FFXI playerbase, from it's extremely elitist content at launch (99 R/E/M only or come as bard) to it's out of touch with reality wildkeeper reives that required stupid amounts of players to challenge it. Adoulin is the nail in ffxi that allienated the players who were just finally getting to the point where they felt like they were good players only be reminded of how polarizing the ffxi community can be when difficult content releases. Most ppl log in a game to have fun, there is no fun in being told your job is worthless that you love to play. You didn't get that very much in abyssea (besides pld, which was clearly suffering at the time).

Also before the release of abyssea we had very few ppl logging on (hence server merges that occurred right before the release of abyssea). Honestly I want another abyssea to be released with 22 new sets of af type gear (maybe 130 ilvl or something cool) and 17 new empyrean type weapons (obviously stronger than the current junk that empyrean weapons are). That's what brings us together. When we can all get something and see our characters improve every night even when we just go help random ppl with some random nm. That is not what adoulin is or anything since. Escha is not like that either. The gear is simply side-grades for already over-bloated amounts of side-graded gear to the point that players are generally kind of confused what to focus on. You know what saved ffxiv? You know what made ffxi better? When the game was focused and we could see a goal and achieve it. Nobody wants another set of side-graded ilvl 119 gear, it just makes our eyes roll up in the back of our heads and facepalm.

We want weapons that are new, and look cool and have new ws's, we want new af-type sets of gear (adoulin has 0 af-type content, and that's really strange) and we want to party together, heck alliance together for experience/capacity points like we could in abyssea. Yes it breeds leeches, but who cares, boot them out of your party if you don't want them. Honestly I could see a large interest in ffxi even now if they put the time in and made a new system for us to take on that was actually accessable to returning players and new players and actually gave them a way to get up to speed. Argue what you will, but I believe that that is the ONLY way the game will ever see more players.

I for one loved pre-abyssea and actually quit for a while during abyssea. But the numbers are there and it's clear it was madly successful in getting more subs, even if 1/3 of those were dual-boxers/multi-boxers. They tapped into something with that content. And I think it's exactly right to describe abyssea as the power-playground where we finally could deal amazing damage. That's the high-note I want the game to end on. Not this weird black/white colored zones of escha with the stupid status ailments the nms have here, making all but bsts/smns/geo completely useless. And the accuracy-apocolypse we've had for several years now. Honestly they could double or triple accuracy and it would drastically make the end-game more attractive. And I also hate my r/e/m-gear progression being tied to weird events like vagary that is obviously going to fade into the distance and has almost no real appeal to most ppl.

I know it's a bit off-topic, but that's how I feel.

On topic, I love the idea of a ffxi 2.0, or a new mmo that was geared towards hardcore players, but there is like none out there even remotely intriguing enough to try. FFXIV is far too wow-ez for me to enjoy (max level, awesome gear in less than 3 months and every job capped...come on, pathetic). So I think there is a market for ffxi and I think the idea of a kick-starter type program would be great as we hardcore ffxi players could rally behind our favorite game. Shoot, I'd love for a whole new generation to explore vana'diel like I did or at least have a chance at a truly challenging mmorpg that wasn't a wow clone. That alone is worth the price. I just wish there was somewhere to go after they get tired of ffxi and shut down the servers and I really wish they would do either ffxi 2.0 or something ffxi-like in it's challenge. Heck I'd love to see ffxiv become a challange at the high levels but it just isn't and honestly I don't have much love for ffxiv right now. I know it's probably going to get alot of TL/DR's but I think abyssea needed to be defended a bit because it drew my linkshell together in a way we couldn't before or since and I think there were others that enjoyed it too.

[Alhanelem]

Adoulin is what killed FFXI playerbase,Not really accurate, players on the servers were low before audolin and not really changed after it for better or worse (for some time at least).

Like I said in my post: Abyssea itself didn't directly damage the game upon its release, it was actually well recieved at the time of its release. The real problem lied in the implications it would have on content post abyssea, as well as the impact it had on leveling. It trivialized something that was a major source of community in the game (Most of us met eachother in EXP parties, especially in the early days) and also highly encouraged leeching and laziness. People leveled up all their jobs real fast and then lost their drive.

[Zarchery]

Abyssea and Adoulin didn't kill FFXI!!!!! It's obviously [INSERT THING I PERSONALLY DISLIKE] that did it!

[Mnejing]

Abyssea and Adoulin didn't kill FFXI!!!!! It's obviously [INSERT THING I PERSONALLY DISLIKE] that did it!

The canned responses of No Plans?

[Zarchery]

The canned responses of No Plans?

I currently have no plans to confirm or deny that.

[Krystal]

Not really accurate, players on the servers were low before audolin and not really changed after it for better or worse (for some time at least).

Like I said in my post: Abyssea itself didn't directly damage the game upon its release, it was actually well recieved at the time of its release. The real problem lied in the implications it would have on content post abyssea, as well as the impact it had on leveling. It trivialized something that was a major source of community in the game (Most of us met eachother in EXP parties, especially in the early days) and also highly encouraged leeching and laziness. People leveled up all their jobs real fast and then lost their drive.

Your only mentioning the after effects. What happened during its "peak" as you call it was far worse. Sure it started out "great" but then the fallout came so fast it would make sonic the hedgehog gawk and go "That's too fast man!". By "fallout" I mean the fact that players quickly realized that all those levels they were gaining were awesome but there was a big problem... sure they had the levels but not the combat levels. Players quickly realized that even though they were level 99, they couldn't hit jack shit.

More over, the locations that that had monsters who would actually skill them were far and few in between. Eventually players figured out the locations but this lead to them spending nearly as much time skilling up their combat skills as they would have spent leveling the job the normal way. Then there were those who wanted the empy+2 gear the "best gear" in the game for your job at the time. Farming these items was tedious and not easy. Players who were used to things being handed to them thanks to the easy leveling abby provided quickly gave up on getting that gear and settled for the freebie gear provided for curor.

Another thing long time players like myself noticed is that the concept of "congratulations!" when you gained a level suddenly became meaningless as did all those levels we worked so hard to gain. Players who were jaded by this aspect and fact that abby brought quit the game in tidal waves.

The game's pop suddenly went from an average of 1500 players per server to at the most, 750 per server. Yes, that many players quit due to being jaded alone. i don't know if there were many threads on here about it but Reddit had several hundreds, one of which titled: "Post here if you quit FFXI because of abby" which was rather big in itself.

Those of us who attempted to go with the flow the game was going towards saw all of this transpire, many of which ignored it and pretended abby wasn't the cause when we all knew it was. Some simply embraced it with the lazy notion: "Get with the times! Old style leveling is out!" These players more often than not, hailed from WoW at some point or another. I personally confirmed 500+ through forums and Reddit alone who used to play WoW at some point.

By the time seekers was released, the majority of the player pop was full of players who wanted instant gratification and expected as such from this expansion and seekers brought anything but that. So what happened? Many left while some of the players who heard the challenge had returned to the game and decided to give FFXI a chance again.

[Alhanelem]

Your only mentioning the after effects.I'm only mentioning the "after effects" because that's where the biggest problems lie. Your complaint about combat skills is inconsequential. I don't think the fact that people still needed to raise their combat skills had anything to do with the problem- And this is still an "after effect" since it was brought on by the leveling speed increase. I would disagree about the fun of abyssea wearing off as fast as you describe. It seemed to me like the community held pretty steady throughout its introduction (over the several months taken to release all three parts) and began to tumble as post-abyssea content began to come in- and not because of flaws in said content, but rather the high expectations brought on by Abyssea. Your mileage may vary by sever, I can only speak for mine.

I think long after later content came out, players still felt like Abyssea was the only thing to do, as well. That was the only place you could achieve the highest power, after all.

[Bluestar2kx]

Greetings all. It is my first post on this account since I lost my password to my other playonline 2 years ago. Do not be fooled by the progress on this character I'm a FFXI vet and started playing 2003 under Skizzle on the Ragnarok server.

Like MANY people here we grew up with this game under Tanaka and followed the progress with the years. This game has brought challenges laughter fun love to some including myself at one time companionship you name it.

If there is any way we as the consumers and players can make you guys continue doing this game as a 2.0 with better graphics etc? Kickstarter if possible? SE has been keeping two MMORPGs up at the same time for almost 2 years now so we know its possible.

With all due respect to Yoshi P and his team, FFXIV is not what we FFXI players where hoping for. I'm playing FFXIV at the moment with many of my FFXI friends from my old server but its just not the same. I think many players that play FFXIV that are from FFXI share these feelings. FFXIV was not what we signed up for and what we wanted to keep alive with our dubble subscriptions during its dark times. We never wanted a World of Warcraft Final Fantasy. Neither did we want a game where there is nothing to do now due to its lack of content and difficulty on regular stuff (Alexander savage doesnt count)

Don't let this wonderful game go to waste. Just touch it up a bit add better graphics and some new gameplay and i know people will come. I know I'm not alone with these thoughts. All good things don't have to come to an end. Instead they can flourish into something we all want.

Much love to the FFXI team and all the players here that are currently playing this game. Salute to you all!

It is possible their already making one, but aren't ready to announce it.
The question becomes if thats the case: What kind of FF title will it be? Like XI? Or like XIV? Or like XV or something different all together.

SE has the resources to run multiple MMO's if they wanted to and the titles brought in money.
We just don't know what will happen.

I would definitely support any efforts by SE to expand FFXI, i think if they updated the engine they could draw a fair sum of new players, and work to bring life into the game. But using XIV's engine code would be a daunting task still to bring everything over from this engine, but likely cheaper then an entirely new one, so who knows.

[Stuzey]

Some interesting points, but I think you need to look back to Wings of the Goddess for when things started to change, the expansion offered very little end game content compared to Aht Urghan, SE had experimented with the three scenario add ons, but the game needed something new just before Abyssea. What Abyssea did is bring the playerbase to the same level, most old content became obsolete.

At first Abyssea was great fun, you could organise LS events around it, needing alliances to take down the bosses, but the introduction of atmas, led to it being much more efficient to farm in smaller groups. It was too easy to get the empy armour, before we had a large selection of events, with long term goals (remember the days of dynamis only dropping a couple of pieces of relic armour a run), now you had no waiting times and could farm items with less than a party.

The problem continued with content not being able to keep up with demand, NNI was another example, all it took was good teamwork and you could max out 15/15 armour in no time, as quickly as new events were released they were beaten and people started losing interest and left for the shiny new XIV.

I personally quit early in 2013 for XIV, but I found something missing with the game, even though it has so many old friends playing, I resubbed at the end of last year and I've been really enjoying my time back, playing much more casually I find myself with lots to do. FFXI isn't what it was, but I agree it still could have plenty to offer, It's a shame they didn't revamp years ago, then the need for the PS2 dev kits wouldn't of been an issue....

[Stompa]

Aby had a lot of really good quests, which were engaging and interesting. Some of the quest rewards were nice gear and furnishings, and Seals for upgrading AF3, and KIs that allowed you to stay in Aby longer, obtain more entry-stones per day etc. I liked the way the quests in Aby had a lot of useful rewards, and were often fun to do.

The Aby NM proc system was well-designed and fun, imo. Aby was a huge and exciting challenge for solo players, lowman, and even alliance in the early days. The bosses were great, and often required a good strategy and teamwork. I liked Shinryu too. I liked the fact that Aby had some wandering NMs, and not just popped NMs. I think they got this mix just right in Aby.

The lights/box system was ingenious, challenging players to do interesting quests and battle NMs to obtain KIs that increased the different types of boxes, and to customise their box-farming. In gold boxes could get -DT 1~6 rings, refresh hairpins, regen helmets etc. This allowed solo players to obtain useful and fun items on their own timeframe. Questing the random augment PDT earring and DEX rings was fun too. Also the Battle Trophies random augments were fun. AF3 and Empy weapons are cool. I also really loved a lot of the Merit WS which arrived during Aby.

Abyssea should have allowed entry for level 75+ characters only, this was my only complaint about Aby.

[peculiar]

Was reading on redit earlier that according to Square, final fantasy xiv is not doing as well as they had hoped in some of the major regions it runs in. So hopefully that will wake them up to not killing off the other mmo title they run.

FFXI can still be profitable Square, learn from your failings and keep the one sure thing you have!

[Elexia]

Actually.

SE has been doing what they're doing with XV for awhile now. Kingdom Hearts an FFXII were "open world" games in a sense. The main switch to the current style is because western gamers are to the point they want "more and more" and less of what made a series popular because it's "outdated."

FFXIII-2 was essentially a FF version of Chrono Trigger, another SE IP - something that did "choices" and "routes" long before it became a trope. XIII-2 didn't need a fleshed out story as it was playing off of the previous story, being a direct sequel. XIII-2 also did better and was more well received than FFXIII and LR.

If we're going with the "rip off" route, FFXI was a rip off of EverQuest and pretty much any game that wasn't created by nintendo is a rip off of their IP - platformers? Yeah, rip off of Mario as Mario was the most popular platformer ever. Shooters? rip off of Doom and Quake..so on and so forth. "Originality" is very hard to come by when the industry has existed for over 35 years in some fashion.

In terms of what "killed XI" it certainly wasn't Adoulin. Abyssea was hit/miss - The content was fun and well executed, however the level cap raise from 75-99 was too quick in terms of a progression sense, which means they had to do something drastic to accommodate it, that is what killed XI because it suddenly went from what we were used to doing and all of the content we had in rotation, to "nothing." Adoulin introduced a lot of new systems, the same amount if not more than previous expansions did - that wouldn't kill the game.

To be honest, the only time SE has ever "ripped" something off was indeed for FFXIV ARR - Yoshida was extremely clear in making a FF version of WoW similar to how FFXI was their answer to EverQuest. XIV's main shotcomings is, Chinese wise, the pay to play aspect didn't mesh well with the style of game. You can't do much paying hourly because in XIV you're doing a lot of nothing until you hit level cap. Korea has far better MMOs to play. It's only America and Europe that's in an MMO slump because WoW "changed the game" and very few eastern MMOs want to even set foot out west because they know it's bound to fail quickly if it isn't a WoW clone.

SE took advantage of that with XIV.

[BurnNotice]

Honestly, we can go in circles on how this game is dead or got killed or whatever. Truth of the matter is that the game still has room for development and I strongly believe its far from dead/over/kill/ect. I am no programmer, but I know programmers and they educated me on how long it would take to recreate a game to be played on other platforms. Needless to say, it will require a tremendous amount time, money, people and patients to redo this game and have it released in a timely manner. If this game was given a year to be redone for PC and today's platform consoles, it will come at the price of the subscriber. Would you be willing pay $25/mo for a revamped game with new content and updates twice a year? I am sure most people would.

[Bluestar2kx]

Honestly, we can go in circles on how this game is dead or got killed or whatever. Truth of the matter is that the game still has room for development and I strongly believe its far from dead/over/kill/ect. I am no programmer, but I know programmers and they educated me on how long it would take to recreate a game to be played on other platforms. Needless to say, it will require a tremendous amount time, money, people and patients to redo this game and have it released in a timely manner. If this game was given a year to be redone for PC and today's platform consoles, it will come at the price of the subscriber. Would you be willing pay $25/mo for a revamped game with new content and updates twice a year? I am sure most people would.

Using XIV's existing engine would dramatically cut down time, it's PC based as I understand it, and is already used for PS3 and 4, so that would be a boon, opening FFXI to those markets would be immense with such a graphical upgrade. But yeah, still going to cost a ton for conversion, testing, etc... but far more feasible then starting entirely from scratch.

I would definitely be willing to accept a price increase to help pay for the transition.

p.s. what exactly is wrong with open world and Final fantasy? That's pretty much FFXI, XII, and XIV. And except XIV, they play really well. Not everything has to be turn based battles with random pop up mobs that the previous titles had just because you liked them.

[Raydeus]

I like XI the way it is, and after Console support is dropped my greatest wish would be having a PC HD remaster of XI moving forward.

Same models, systems and everything else, just with a DX11/12 client that used modern hardware well and had HD textures for models in the game. And I most definitely wouldn't mind kickstarting the upgrade (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/42637-SquareEnix-Kickstarter-campaign-to-get-a-graphic-upgrade) if necessary.

[Secondplanet]

I would be happy if the would just make a update or a pay for update that would make the graphics sharper and at the same time they could finally fix some of the limitations brought on by the ps2 like fix pet pathing or even fix inventory issues. The amount they would be able to properly fix would be huge once the console support is gone.

[BurnNotice]

Using XIV's existing engine would dramatically cut down time, it's PC based as I understand it, and is already used for PS3 and 4, so that would be a boon, opening FFXI to those markets would be immense with such a graphical upgrade. But yeah, still going to cost a ton for conversion, testing, etc... but far more feasible then starting entirely from scratch.

I would definitely be willing to accept a price increase to help pay for the transition.

p.s. what exactly is wrong with open world and Final fantasy? That's pretty much FFXI, XII, and XIV. And except XIV, they play really well. Not everything has to be turn based battles with random pop up mobs that the previous titles had just because you liked them.

That's would work. I just scene a commercial of a remake of God of War 3 and I watch my son play the FF10 HD remake and it looks great. I am sure it didn't much to improve on those games, so I can certainly understand using the XIV engine on this would possibly work. That's just in my own opinion

However, I just grilled by my friend who is a programmer and he told me its not that simple. He said that FFXIV engine and coding could be too sophisticated for FFXI to the point that FFXI code may end up being rewritten anyway.

[Elexia]

Hm...

The luminious and Luminious branched engine (XIV) seemingly are being thrown away after FFXV so I doubt they'd use that engine anyway. Stuff will have to be written simply to better optimize it..but if they did actually use FFXIV's branched engine, it would save a lot of time on some aspects, for example a lot of FFXIV enemies are HD XI enemies as is. The biggest hurdle is the net coding, everything else could, for a lack of a better term, be 'wrapped'.

[Zumi]

I think FFXI would have been much better off if they kept the FFXIV and FFXI discount sub. Currently I pay $7.99 a month for my Legacy sub on 14. But if they threw in FFXI say for a couple more dollars you could get a lot of more people to play both. Its just that $7.99 + $12.95 is a lot per month. My FC in XIV has 91 people all from Phoenix most of them are from my XI LS. Had so many old XI players that we knew come join to play FFXIV when Heavensward came out. I like FFXIV a lot having a really good time with it. However you can cap your tomes and do all your raids and then actually run out of stuff to do after all your jobs are leveled, so maybe it would be nice to log on to FFXI when you are capped on your weekly events in 14 for the week.

[Tidis]

I might actually play 14 if I got a good deal for maintaining subscriptions in both, I wonder if it would work both ways for people who already moved to 14.

[elqplau]

I am such a player... I started soon after the us release first update was chocobo ownership... I play this because there is no real pressure to finish even tho I've been on almost constitly since us release I still do not have all jobs to 99... because I'm old school...I do not book/aby/SoA/burn my jobs.... my quested NPC has over2mill adventure points....sure its easier to solo now but I've been a solo player for so long I don't rember what a party is nemore lol I get enjoyment from walking the world and just doing what a rdm is supposed to do.....I NVR was a back line player on my rdm an I'll NVR be that player I started on PC and dial up burned 2 computers and 1 laptop on this game... I'll be on it till SE pulls the plug....I've played old version of fourteen and was not impressed wasn't to thrilled with 13/2 either lol

[Teraniku]

You know, if SE could think a little out of the box, they could remake XI as an "Expansion" for XIV, but your character plays by XI rules in Vana'diel, and XIV rules in Eorzea, Dimensional Vortex in Sandy, Bastok and Windurst linked to the sort of equivalent starter cities in Eorzea, and I think it could work. (and yeah I totally "creatively Borrowed" that idea from Sword Art Online and the World Seed concept)

[bungiefanNA]

If not for the apparent problems of PS2 dev kits, they may very well have kept going. If I understand things correctly...what is happening with this game is the result of a lack of PS2 dev kits. If one dies on them, it's gone forever. I don't know why they can't work something out with Sony. Maybe they choose not to or Sony threw away everything in regards to PS2 years ago. Whatever the case may be, if FFXI is to continue, it needs to be......................REBORN. Har. Har. Har. Roll credits!

The problem is that the factories to make PS2 motherboards and components tore down their machinery to make those components, and replaced them with production machinery for new electronics. It's not so simple as just making new boards on demand, you need the infrastructure in place for that specific build, and that is a factory dedicated to maiing just that component in small numbers for that one customer. It's a huge expense, for something that will sit idle much of the time, and will produce only a few units over time.

It's why you can't just get something mass produced on demand. Someone needs to configure the equipment in the factory to make your run, so your quantity must be worth the time of factory reconfiguration. When your run is over, they reconfigure to something else, and they may not have time in the schedule to reconfigure again to make another run for you, unless it is very large. That's why there aren't more Fallout 4 PipBoy armbands being made for the obvious demand, the factory that made them has already moved on and has other orders to fill for other companies.

Alhanalem, the other FF GameBoy games were the SaGa series, which were created like FFII, by the guy that designed the leveling system in FFII. SaGa games rarely have EXP. SaGa was remade on WonderSwan Color about 10 years ago, and Saga II and III were remade on DS about 5 years ago. There were 3 games on the SNES that we didn't get, the Romancing SaGa series, which the first was remade on PS2 and we did get, plus we got both SaGa Frontier games on PS1, and Unlimited SaGa on PS2.

[vienne]

The problem is that the factories to make PS2 motherboards and components tore down their machinery to make those components, and replaced them with production machinery for new electronics. It's not so simple as just making new boards on demand, you need the infrastructure in place for that specific build, and that is a factory dedicated to maiing just that component in small numbers for that one customer. It's a huge expense, for something that will sit idle much of the time, and will produce only a few units over time.

It's why you can't just get something mass produced on demand. Someone needs to configure the equipment in the factory to make your run, so your quantity must be worth the time of factory reconfiguration. When your run is over, they reconfigure to something else, and they may not have time in the schedule to reconfigure again to make another run for you, unless it is very large. That's why there aren't more Fallout 4 PipBoy armbands being made for the obvious demand, the factory that made them has already moved on and has other orders to fill for other companies.

What you are saying isnt completely correct. Before my current career I worked in a factory where they manufactured printing boards on demand for other companies. Everything goes fully automatic, the engineers write the program for the robot and a test run is made with one operator. The operator gets the electronic schedules and runs the tests and does the needed changes to the robots so we can make a batch go smoothly without problems. It wasnt uncommon for companies to order per 10 printing boards depending on what was being made. The setting up of the robots is a matter of minutes once the program is fully tested and all the bugs have been dealt with.
When there's a wrong component on the printplate its easily fixed with a basic solder equipment. I cant imagine that fixing the ps2 devkits are so much of a hastle unless the printplate itself is cracked, components on the other hand are easily fixed if handled by an experienced individual. (excuse my language, I'm not familiar with the more technical terms in English)

[Elexia]

I think it simply comes down to there being no point in taking the time and money to get a bunch of PS2 devkits back up and running when their current focus is PS4 and to a lesser extent, PS3/PSVita. So true, some john doe at SE HQ who is experience can run through and get them up and running by their own accord...I'm sure SE heads are like: "Nope, FFXIV. FFXIV. FFXIV."

[Bluestar2kx]

That's would work. I just scene a commercial of a remake of God of War 3 and I watch my son play the FF10 HD remake and it looks great. I am sure it didn't much to improve on those games, so I can certainly understand using the XIV engine on this would possibly work. That's just in my own opinion

However, I just grilled by my friend who is a programmer and he told me its not that simple. He said that FFXIV engine and coding could be too sophisticated for FFXI to the point that FFXI code may end up being rewritten anyway.

No, they probably couldn't port much data directly. Art maybe, but I doubt much code. That would likely all have to be written new into XIv, but using the engine and the art XIV already has thats from XI or suitable to matching the style of XI would save a lot of time. The capabilities of XIv's engine are perfect for much of what XI does already, and could help expand on what FFXI can do in the future. Plus we'd be able to get some of the enhancements to XI that XIv has, such as better maps, quest guides, maybe even character design, and remove XI's engine limitations for so much stuff.

Though the game design and mechanics would have to stay as XI's, but I doubt coding that in would be a big problem, XIV's engine is much more dynamic then XI's... Just, have to tone down the flashy that XIv loves, it's a bit much, esp for XI. And make sure our boat rides go in!

It would still be a huge project, and cost a fair bit, but using whats available to help rebuild XI could cut costs a lot. But there's so much to gain. Subscribers to say the least, esp on the PS4, but further expansions into FFXI's lore could bring in old players again, to say nothing about how attractive having some of XIV's systems in place would be beneficial, to old and new players alike.

The only problem of course... as usual... Is getting the company to see the light. :/

[Skizzle]

Nice to see such dedication! I would like to know though is there a way to get the ball rolling or its just too late?

[Alhanelem]

Nice to see such dedication! I would like to know though is there a way to get the ball rolling or its just too late?
It's basically too late to change course, they've already committed to their plan, what with the phone games and rhapsodies and such. The time to convince them was essentially when Audolin came out. Perhaps if it had a bigger impact there would have been a different pattern of events.

[Bizniztyme]

Yeah, it's way too late, I would understand if 14 wasn't made but 14 is already made and doing well, our chances are slim to none. I'm going to enjoy what we have as long as they allow me to. This game has so much to do. I have been playing off and on for years and probably still haven't touched about 50% of the content available.

[Stompa]

In 2016 they should consider reducing the FFXI subs slightly, to reflect the lack of new content. They should also consider a FFXI/FFXIV payment bundle, so that players can sub to both games for a reduced price. This would help to keep FFXI server populations up, all the bored FFXIV players would be back in Vanadiel while they wait for the next FFXIV content. I'm already seeing quite a few FFXIV players who have actually cancelled their FFXIV accounts and returned to FFXI full-time. It would also help to reduce some of the toxic division, the "us or them" factor, which has saddened me in recent years. FFXI was always famous in the gaming community, for having some of the friendliest and most helpful players, and this should be recognised, even though there is less need for high-levels to help new/returning players now due to QOL/trusts etc.

FFXI is still a game with a largely friendly and welcoming playerbase, and I think a bundle payment option for the two games would encourage more people to play FFXI during those times when their shiny game is lacking lustre.

[madmartin]

I dont really want ffxi to be updated graphically, i like the game how it is. the gfx are still nice, art style and at a high resolution still look nice and crisp which makes up for the old texture quality, new content is ending so be it - the game is extremely large as it is. Servers on pc will last an extremely long time anyway.

[Spectreman]

They won't do anything. It feels to me that they want the game to die slowly as people see no future in it and move naturally to their mobile version or FF14. Then they will just announce that the servers are shutting down and thats it.

[Skizzle]

I mean look at the FFXIV threads? Yoshi P isnt doing that much of a good job? If even the WoW infested FFXIV community is officially complaining then stuff is really bad. So why not just run 2 mmorpgs one with vertical progression and one with horizontal!

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/261664-More-Horizontal-Progression-please

[Draylo-]

I saw that thread, theres one on BG too. Just makes me smile to see people finally waking up and smelling the coffee. Maybe it will mean they will actually create good content, but in reality the masses just eats up all the fluff and minion from cash shop!

[Elexia]

He has enough sheep to keep doing less and making a ton of money for it. XIV not doing well China and Korea is TBD. XIV is a fine MMO for what it is..but after what they've done with XI, nostalgia aside...they could do so much more than they're doing. That's why I'd support a "XI revamp" in a heartbeat if all it means is adding more modern features (like they're actually doing), higher res textures and continued support.

[Billnes]

I have 14 installed on the same system that I use for 11 (Dell Optiplex 760). Even though I have a 1/2 Tb HDD, I decided to uninstall 14. I let my free trial expire and I refuse to pay for 14 with the Crysta that I use to pay for 11. Because I have no payment method selected for 14, I can't even log in. My current system is only Core 2 Duo E730 - Wolfdale. The ATI Radeon HD 3450 card inside of it is too weak to run 14 adequately anyway. So, long-story-short: Poof. Bye-bye.

[Alhanelem]

lol the XIV bashing/resentment continues. Hyperbole much?

Look, I want a major XI update/revamp/remake/whatever just as much as anyone else here, but linking to a couple salty XIV players wanting a shift in progression isn't going to make that happen. Whether you want to admit it or not, the game is doing well for them (china aside, perhaps, but I don't think anyone expected much from it there in the first place)and they're probably going to keep channeling their effort into what is making them the most money. They're a business, and businesses need to make money or they will die and we will never get another final fantasy. (Okay, so that was hyperbole too.) You would do it to if you were on their senior staff. Even an HD remake of FFXI would not likely sell as well or make as much- So can you really fault them that much for not going a route that doesn't make much business sense?


Just makes me smile to see people finally waking up and smelling the coffee. Maybe it will mean they will actually create good content, but in reality the masses just eats up all the fluff and minion from cash shop! I dont see any of this waking up and smelling coffee. There's about the same number of "turn XIV into XI 2" -ish threads and posts now as there was when the game first came out. My post count here should indicate very well to you how much time I spend looking at the forums, so I should know.


higher res texturesIt's funny, I pushed for a few specific things to get a resolution increase and they did it... I had hoped it was part of a trend to upgrade the texture resolution across more of the game, but much to my dismay it never happened =\

[Draylo-]

Even an HD remake of FFXI would not likely sell as well or make as much- So can you really fault them that much for not going a route that doesn't make much business sense?

Yet they are HDing FFXII soon.... Good point.


I dont see any of this waking up and smelling coffee. There's about the same number of "turn XIV into XI 2" -ish threads and posts now as there was when the game first came out. My post count here should indicate very well to you how much time I spend looking at the forums, so I should know.

It isn't the only forum and trust me people are dropping like flies. You can tell because a game like that is prone to those types of actions due to their content progression. Most sub only for patches and then unsub to the next one.

[Vanfrano]

Alhanelem, you cannot not see that there is a problem with FFXIV. Posts have been popping left and right on the OF and on other forums with a lot of people complaining about the state of the game and/or leaving for good and it keeps growing each day.

Regarding FFXI, it seems that all they want now is for it to die slowly. Maybe, just maybe, if we and enough people keep playing after November they will realize that there are still things to do with this beautiful game.
They could even rerelease a revamped FFXI as a new game, with all the content we have now and expand on the things we are missing: the Far East, Rhazowa, Olzhirya, the Island of Tsahya, the Island of Garhada...

Here's a video from TGS 2015, I guess with the song we can expect to hear in the final chapter of RoV (along with our "lalala's" :D):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfRQOEfd1pc

[Alhanelem]

Draylo, if what you said was a rule, then WoW would have died years ago. It's still here, and not all that much worse for wear.


Yet they are HDing FFXII soon.... Good point. FFXII is not an MMORPG. Let's list all the HD remakes of old MMORPGs out there.... .... ........ Whoops, there aren't any. Well,there are some MMOs that have undergone visual enhancements over the years, because they are on PC and it's easy to keep up with the times. But there has never been an MMORPG that has had a remake- because generally there's no reason to- MMOs just live on and on untili they don't anymore. XI is kind of special here because it was on a console which impeded any possibility of major audiovisual improvements.


It isn't the only forum and trust me people are dropping like flies.People are not "dropping like flies." Besides that, somebody posting they want to see XYZ thing changed doesn't mean they're quitting the game.


Alhanelem, you cannot not see that there is a problem with FFXIV.Every game has problems. FFXI has problems. FFXIV has problems. Everquest (and II and NEXT) has problems. ESO has problems. They ALL have problems. None of these games are perfect, and for all the time FFXI has taken up in my life for the last 12 years, it's not problem free either. There have been complaint threads on this very forum up the wazoo since the day it opened.

This is where you learn: People come to forums to complain. That's practically what they're for. Think about it. Compare the number of times you've visited an official game's forum specifically to lavish it with praise. It just doesn't happen that often compared to complaints (and requests for help). Why? A problem is generally the driving factor that brings you to a forum.

You can not judge the state of FFXIV from reading the forums any better than this game. It is not a reliable indicator.

The bias for XI and against XIV here is more incredible than the biases I've seen on any internet forum I've ever been on.

You on XI:"maybe, just maybe if we and enough people keep playing after november..." "...this wonderful game..."
You on XIV: "ppl keep posting about leaving for good ... it keeps growing each day..."

You love XI, so you're biased towards hoping for a better future, which clouds your vision of what is happening/what will happen
You dont' love XIV and you see it as destructive to what you love, thus you have a bias against it that clouds your vision of what's actually happening

I've been on this forum since it was created. I saw "I quit" threads here just as often. Ironically, the ones that actually post about quitting tend to actually keep playing. Most people who quit playing a game don't post to announce it. I've seen multiple I quit threads on multiple game forums, where I saw the allegedly quitting player in the game the next day (and week... and month...)

I love both games. I'm still posting here. I still play XI (Maybe not as often as I used to, but I still do). I also play XIV and love that too, for different reasons.. I should just paint a huge target all over my body for how much I'm going to be targeted with hate just for commenting on this.

Should I be suprised to see heavy anti-XIV sentiment here? Of course not. People here understandably consider it the bane of XI's existence. But that doesn't mean you have to irraitonally hate and paint a biased picture of what's actually happening.

(Perhaps I'll scour both forums and calculate the percentage of quit threads to other threads. I'm absolutely certain it will be similar on both boards. but that will take a long time to do)

[Vanfrano]

People have been coming to FFXIV OF to praise Yoshida for almost two years, destroying anyone who was complaining about anything in the game. Since the release of Heavensward, things are changing and there are more and more people with low post counts who actually come and say what is wrong because they want FFXIV to get better, just like I was hoping it would get better when I was still playing. The white knights with thousands of posts (they've been so busy ingame with the huge amount of content) are now overwhelmed. And I am not only taking the forum as an example, I'm speaking with friends who are still on XIV, bored to death and looking for another MMO or just left during the last few weeks.

XI will slowly die and we will probably never get a 2.0 and in the end, XIV will destroy itself if they don't change their vision and SE will find themselves without XI and without XIV.

But you have a point, I don't love XIV and anything it represents and I'm actually quite happy about what is happening right now over there, you don't manipulate people for that long without any damage.

[Obysuca]

Draylo, if what you said was a rule, then WoW would have died years ago. It's still here, and not all that much worse for wear.


Thing is, the difference in WoW and most modern mmos is WoW did something that was different. All these mmos to come out in the last 10 years just try to copy WoW and end up dying off. The only thing that'll kill WoW is WoW. But a mmo like XIV (can't really call it a mmo, more like a facebook/mobile game you log into for an hour and finish everything for the day... ), with its lack of content and focus on vanity stuff rather than actual mmo content, could easily die out if something new and shiny with variety is released.

That's all it'll take to decimate XIV's population. Theres no staying power, especially since it encourages you to be solo and DF everything, theres no reason to make friends. The only reason it hasn't died yet is because it has FF in the title, without that, it would have disappeared a year ago, like the countless other generic mmos in the last 10 years. So you can't really compare a behemoth like WoW that brought something different to the table, with all these watered down wannabe WoW mmos.

Theres no real reason to continuously sub to XIV month after month either, so that's a loss in money for SE, since a lot of people do that. You can come back, do the MSQ in an hour or two, unlock the 2 dungeons and 1 raid that just replaced the last 2 dungeons and 1 raid, then quit until the next update and never be behind, because even if you joined today, you could hit cap and be in full i180 before your trial month is up.

[Bizniztyme]

The only reason it hasn't died yet is because it has FF in the title

Uh.......This reason didn't do anything for it's original incarnation so this argument has no leg to stand on.

Also, yes, there are people who only do one thing in the game so they run out of things to do so they have no reason to sub month to month but don't be saying that's for everyone. You can hate on the game all you want but there are plenty of things to do in XIV to a variety of people that keep them subbing month to month.

[Bizniztyme]

People have been coming to FFXIV OF to praise Yoshida for almost two years, destroying anyone who was complaining about anything in the game. Since the release of Heavensward, things are changing and there are more and more people with low post counts who actually come and say what is wrong because they want FFXIV to get better, just like I was hoping it would get better when I was still playing. The white knights with thousands of posts (they've been so busy ingame with the huge amount of content) are now overwhelmed. And I am not only taking the forum as an example, I'm speaking with friends who are still on XIV, bored to death and looking for another MMO or just left during the last few weeks.

XI will slowly die and we will probably never get a 2.0 and in the end, XIV will destroy itself if they don't change their vision and SE will find themselves without XI and without XIV.

But you have a point, I don't love XIV and anything it represents and I'm actually quite happy about what is happening right now over there, you don't manipulate people for that long without any damage.

Right....you and your friends and a few forum posters not happy indicates the game dying!!!! Good stuff right here. LOL Too funny.

[Elexia]

lol the XIV bashing/resentment continues. Hyperbole much?

It's becoming increasing apparent that people are getting tired of XIV. It's not a failure but it's not hyperbole either. It failed in China. When your MMO fails in the biggest, most hardcore market...you have a problem. Korea has better MMOs out so we don't know how XIV is doing in that market yet. There's no "bashing", it's an adequate MMORPG that makes SE money with enough people not caring about the quality of gameplay that they don't have to change a thing.


Whether you want to admit it or not, the game is doing well for them (china aside, perhaps, but I don't think anyone expected much from it there in the first place)

You don't expect much from the biggest MMO market? lol SE expected much, which is why they spent the time and money to get it there, including a partnership deal (thus expecting a return.)


Even an HD remake of FFXI would not likely sell as well or make as much- So can you really fault them that much for not going a route that doesn't make much business sense?

Considering how people like not playing MMOs these days..aka XIV gameplay, I'm sure 'HD XI' would make money. A business is in the business of making money -- they'd still be making multiple millions a month. I don't know about you, but if my business printed millions every month ignoring box/digital sales..I'd be happy. What else does SE have going for them? They keep cancelling other ventures.


dont see any of this waking up and smelling coffee. There's about the same number of "turn XIV into XI 2" -ish threads and posts now as there was when the game first came out. My post count here should indicate very well to you how much time I spend looking at the forums, so I should know.

I post on the XIV forums every day - I don't see many if at all any threads stating: "turn XIV in XI-2" just certain people, as per usual, chiming in saying "YOU SUGGESTED FFXI STYLE GAMEPLAY YOU WANT FFXI-2! NEVERMIND THE FACT NAOKI YOSHIDA HAS SAID FLATOUT THAT HE WANTED TO MAKE A WOW STYLED MMO USING FF ELEMENTS AND USING THE SAME LOGIC I PUT FORTH WOULD MAKE THIS WOW-2!" (btw there's very little unique content in XIV.)

Even the whitest of white knights have either quit or started to get EXTREMELY bored with the game and formula. Like...say what you will..but the fact an expansion offered nothing new that made it feel like an expansion..yeah, you have to admit there's a problem when the expansion, 2 years later, is nothing different from the base game formula. Even XI's expansions changed things up because they introduce new systems (some sooner, some later) or were focused around changing gameplay in some aspect.

WHOOOOOOOO FLYING!

As said, I post and browse the XIV forums daily, I see far more "Getting bored" "tired of the formula" "anything new?" "how to have fun" "CRAFTING SUCKS!" "x element sucks!" topics than I do "make this game like (insert MMO)!" I'm looking on the front page now and one topic that is flatout saying they have no drive or will to play despite liking it..isn't being met with the usual cynamism/GO BACK TO XI! bashing...but overwhelming support and like minded people that aren't the regular "this game is boring" people. Slight tangent, but XIV ARR isn't a "failed" MMO..but I'm up to date and already working on A4S progression...I'm pretty damn sure I know the state of the game and how the community feels that actually does the content. The people who don't do content are the happiest for a reason.


Uh.......This reason didn't do anything for it's original incarnation so this argument has no leg to stand on

It was why people were willing to even try it and why people stuck with it. The only reason. You are absolutely silly if you don't think the reason ARR/HW is still even somewhat popular is because it's "Final Fantasy". Look at Fantasy Earth when SE ran it.

Opps..there goes your argument.


Right....you and your friends and a few forum posters

"few forum posters" The fact Alexander Story mode only as of census had under 300k people even touch it, despite it being "widely requested" means the sub number is hellishly low or the people who actually care for content in XIV is that low and the majority of people only care for Glamour/Vanity..which means the other poster was correct - A new MMO with better vanity/Glamor/promise of casual heaven will decimate XIV in a heartbeat.

Bonus if it's B2P like GW2 or F2P as Yoshida himself even said people are more likely to pay for what they want than a sub fee.

[Bizniztyme]

It was why people were willing to even try it and why people stuck with it. The only reason. You are absolutely silly if you don't think the reason ARR/HW is still even somewhat popular is because it's "Final Fantasy". Look at Fantasy Earth when SE ran it.

Opps..there goes your argument.


Talking about silly. You believing this is the only reason is silly in itself. LOL too funny.

[Elexia]

Talking about silly. You believing this is the only reason is silly in itself. LOL too funny.

You seem to be quite young.

The whole reason they retitled an entire series to "Final Fantasy" is because they know the name alone is enough to grab people. You may want to catch up your SE history.

[Alhanelem]

Thing is, the difference in WoW and most modern mmos is WoW did something that was different. All these mmos to come out in the last 10 years just try to copy WoW and end up dying off. The only thing that'll kill WoW is WoW. But a mmo like XIV (can't really call it a mmo, more like a facebook/mobile game you log into for an hour and finish everything for the day... ), with its lack of content and focus on vanity stuff rather than actual mmo content, could easily die out if something new and shiny with variety is released. I don't know how you play FFXIV, but I most definitely can not accomplish everything I need/want to do each day in an hour. And the only reason I can't do that in FFXI either is because any party content takes at least an hour to form a party for, and if I'm solo, i'm grinding job points which takes 837264234 hours.


That's all it'll take to decimate XIV's population. Theres no staying power, especially since it encourages you to be solo and DF everything, theres no reason to make friends.There's tons of reason to make friends (also, most people I've ever talked to primarily play MMOs with the friends they already have). Good luck beating raids and extreme bosses with PUGs. This is no different from XI. Unless I want to do whatever the hot endgame content is in a given update, I don't need to make friends (and I sure won't make any on this forum, that much is certain...) There is already new content on the way that breaks from the pattern you're complaining about, as well. The only major problem I see is they currently have one of the slowest development cycles of any MMO out there. 3 months after updates stop, let me know if you're getting bored in XI. It honestly is too long of a cycle. It doesn't matter how much or how varied the content in an update is. If you take too long to produce the next one, people will conquer everything.

You say they just make the same thing over and over, but XI isn't much different from that. Every major update adds a few more NMs, a few more high tier BCs, and some new raid content that's just like the last one but with a new mechanic or two.

There are more people on the server I play on than most of the XI servers combined. FFXIV is in no danger of dying.


The only reason it hasn't died yet is because it has FF in the titleAlso the only reason XI hasn't died yet. It would never have been half as successful as it ever was if it wasn't FF.

[Obysuca]

I don't know how you play FFXIV, but I most definitely can not accomplish everything I need/want to do each day in an hour.


Let's see... Crafting/gathering is pretty much useless atm. Everything pre 3.0 is useless and void of people doing it (can't even get 7 others for a pony farm). Bismarck ex was obsolete on release. No one really does Ravana ex anymore. You can get all 4 alex loot done in about an hour. Expert takes around 15-20 mins to do and doing it once a day let's you cap by Saturday (only viable way to get eso, everything else gives 10 or less).




There's tons of reason to make friends (also, most people I've ever talked to primarily play MMOs with the friends they already have). Good luck beating raids and extreme bosses with PUGs.

Except I have beaten ex primals and raids with PUGs? The game encourages you to be anti-social too, barely anyone even says Hi in a dungeon anymore, since you'll never see them again. Queues are faster solo. MSQ/job quests are solo except for that rare 1 fight you never touch again thats on DF.


You say they just make the same thing over and over, but XI isn't much different from that. Every major update adds a few more NMs, a few more high tier BCs, and some new raid content that's just like the last one but with a new mechanic or two.


Except the difference being, XIV throws out the 2 dungeons and 1 raid they just added the update before. So there's nothing new and no variety. You're stuck with 2 dungeons and 4 bosses each update. They don't add onto anything. In XI, you can still go and do those other NMs and BCs for gear, they're not trash the next update and obsolete, so it still gives you more things to do than XIV does.




There are more people on the server I play on than most of the XI servers combined. FFXIV is in no danger of dying.


Thing is, theres no official way to know this, not even SE has said the populations of the servers. You can't do a /sea all and see how many are online like you can in XI. For all you know, there could only be a good 2k-3k online on your server and you'd have no idea, especially when everything is instanced. XIV's not doing as well as SE would have people believe.

[Bizniztyme]

You seem to be quite young.

The whole reason they retitled an entire series to "Final Fantasy" is because they know the name alone is enough to grab people. You may want to catch up your SE history.

You seem to be quite clueless if you believe people play those games only because it's final fantasy.

[Bizniztyme]

XIV's not doing as well as SE would have people believe.

Uh....the financial statements would tell you otherwise.

[detlef]

LOL Too funny.


LOL Too funny.Not sure if you're new to forums or the internet, but this doesn't help you win arguments. You just present yourself as someone that doesn't need to be taken seriously, especially when you repeat yourself every post.

[Bizniztyme]

Not sure if you're new to forums or the internet, but this doesn't help you win arguments. You just present yourself as someone that doesn't need to be taken seriously, especially when you repeat yourself every post.

Not sure if you're new to the internet or something but you act like I care that a bunch of people I don't know take me seriously or not.

Also I find the comments laughable, as well as yours. Sue me.

[Emdub]

Greetings!

Although we always appreciate your constructive feedback, it seems as though this thread has gone a bit off track. At this time, I'm afraid we are going to have to close it.

Thank you for your understanding and apologies for any inconvenience,

-=Game Master Emdub=-