Clarification for WHM regarding upper tier Banish spells.

[Raiyara]

Ok so gonna ask if any of the mods here can clear this ine up once and for all.

A few years ago Banish 4 and Banishga 3 were added to whms spell lists on the test server before being taken away with no reason given. Considering that WHMs last spell given was Banish 3 at lvl65 and strangely enough gets Holy 2 at 95 will the devs EVER add the remaining spells for WHM? NPCs get banishga 3 and even upper tier WHM mobs get banish 4 if above lvl85ish so will WHM ever get the remaining spells they should have gotten years ago?

If not can it be at least a reason given why not they never got them unlike BLM getting tier 5 and even 6 single nukes?

[Raiyara]

SE giving no love to us poor WHMs again?

[Grekumah]

This magic was specifically created for use by enemies and monsters. We have no plans to make these spells usable by players.

[Catmato]

Dislike.

123

[Alhanelem]

This magic was specifically created for use by enemies and monsters. We have no plans to make these spells usable by players.
But it was made useable by players. It just didn't get released. It should be released, because it's silly for this line of spells to not recieve additions when every other element has gained higher level damaging spells past level 75.

Banish IV and Banishga III were released on the test server for a period of time, and at that time it was stated that they were considering implementing it, but that they had no release timeline (Kinda like the New UI that never saw the light of day despite being announced with great fanfare back at the Fanfest where they announced the level cap rise).

Since these spells were previously made available to players in a test environment, it should require minimal work to release them. There has to be some kind of better reason than simply "we made these spells for monsters." You guys said the same thing about Utsusemi: San for years, and then you ended up adding it as a Job Point gift. So why can't we have these other spells that are in the same boat?

I know you're just the messenger so I mean no offense, but this is silly. Since the Banish line is highly inefficient compared to other nukes due to higher MP cost (unless they changed this with the magic rebalances a while back?), it doesn't in any way negatively impact game balance to introduce these spells. White mage is not suddenly going to become a top choice for magic DD just because it gained another tier of Banish- It would just (possibly) help solo players, for the most part.

I'm not even a white mage and many forumgoers consider me infamous for downvoting a lot of suggestions. This is an example of a situation where I can't find even one legitimate reason for this to not be a thing.

[Raka]

This magic was specifically created for use by enemies and monsters. We have no plans to make these spells usable by players.

Not to jack the White Mages thread or anything, but how about us Paladins getting Banish III?
How about Banish spells actually serving a purpose? More damage? A specific debuff to apply to any/all enemies and not just Undead?(I still really haven't seen this debuff to begin with either)

This should also apply to Holy and Holy II, need damage upgrades or something that gives us a purpose to even purchase the scrolls. Give us something, SquareEnix. Show us the love and appreciation for your community!

[Alhanelem]

How about Banish spells actually serving a purpose? More damage? A specific debuff to apply to any/all enemies and not just Undead?(I still really haven't seen this debuff to begin with either)Banish makes undead temporarily take normal damage from sources that would otherwise do less than normal damage. (See Damage Types on ffxiclopedia for more info)

[Raiyara]

This magic was specifically created for use by enemies and monsters. We have no plans to make these spells usable by players.

That extremely dissapointing atm WHMs lack any real offensive spells for solo play and prior to the 75 cap raise we had Banish 3 as a relevant spell. That being said the reasoning your giving makes little sense. Im not blaming you as the messenger but why is Banishga III and Banish IV considered a mob only spell? I mean at the end of the day all we want is to have current up to date spells and banish has always been a whms primary and only offensive spell.

[Rakshaka]

This magic was specifically created for use by enemies and monsters. We have no plans to make these spells usable by players.

That's interesting; Summoner already has access to Banish IV via Light Spirit. Why not give it to White Mages as well? While you're updating spells, how about giving Light Spirit access to Regen IV or V, and Cure VI? The priority there would be the regen over the cure spell, as Light Spirit only casts Regen I, regardless of level. It's not very useful at level 99.

Edit: no take backs on Light Spirit's Banish IV!

[Raiyara]

That's interesting; Summoner already has access to Banish IV via Light Spirit. Why not give it to White Mages as well? While you're updating spells, how about giving Light Spirit access to Regen IV or V, and Cure VI? The priority there would be the regen over the cure spell, as Light Spirit only casts Regen I, regardless of level. It's not very useful at level 99.

Edit: no take backs on Light Spirit's Banish IV!

In a way its ironic that SMN gets that spell indirectly whereas WHM has the spells naturally up to the old tier. I dont understand why SE cant impliment those 2 spells for us its in no way gamebreaking to WHM or the game. Just hope they reconsider.

[Muras]

This magic was specifically created for use by enemies and monsters. We have no plans to make these spells usable by players.

So was Elemental -ga IV spells and tier V nukes at one point, and many others. I don't play WHM, but somehow I have the feeling that we're probably not going to get armies of WHMs Banishing all the NMs to death if they were given slightly stronger damage spells.

Anyways, since when does mobs having a spell even matter? We already know spells can have different damage equations for both players and monsters (Especially after the elemental magic changes the past couple years), so really... What's the problem? If the monster version is a bit more powerful than what players should have... Then balance it for players.

[Alhanelem]

It's really unfair to white mage to not have these spells. New tiers of just about every other kind of magic have been added since audolin. While I don't expect white mages to be superpower nukers since that's not their primary responsibility, their current offensive options are so bad that it's embarassing. To be honest, I'm not even sure if the casting and recast times of the existing spells were adjusted back when they did those wholesale changes way back.

Right now a soloing white mage is most likely better off just meleeing and maybe using slow/paralyze etc. I suppose if you want to fight undead you can use the Cure line, but if a mob is weak against light but not undead, Banish spells are the only option (other than Luminohelix) and they suck.

On a related note, Can Full Cure be targeted on undead?

[Olor]

their current offensive options are so bad that it's embarassing.

Not if you count melee....

Whm is not an offensive caster. If soloing it would be silly to use MP on banish nukes anyway - just hit stuff - gear to hit stuff - whm has great weaponskills.

At any other time other than soloing, whm would be using healing magic... so why does this matter?

If they added higher tier banish I wouldn't be against it, but arguing for it based on WHM's lack of attack power is laughable. It's not supposed to be a damage dealing job.

[Alhanelem]

Not if you count melee.... I specifically excluded melee (which isn't defective), but it's also silly that you don't really end up using your magic other than haste.


Whm is not an offensive caster. If soloing it would be silly to use MP on banish nukes anyway It would only be silly becuase the spells are crippled, which they shouldn't be. They're already less MP and cast delay efficient, they don't also need to be statistically inferior.

Virtually all MMOs provide healer classes with a limited selection of offensive abilities for the sake of soloing and for the sake of "I may as well do something since I don't need to heal anybody right now." FFXI is the only one I've played that doesn't. Even most single player FF games gave white mages more powerful attack magic spells than this.

No one said WHM is supposed to be a DPS and that's not what this is about, but WHM is one of the worst classes to have to solo with, and DPS trusts for the most part are rather weak. Their strength in this area can be improved without them suddenly becoming the hot new DD class. If white mage monsters can cast these spells, then white mage players should too.


At any other time other than soloing, whm would be using healing magic... so why does this matter?It matters for the exact reason you said: soloing. How do most people get their CAP? By soloing.

[Dale]

I specifically excluded melee (which isn't defective), but it's also silly that you don't really end up using your magic other than haste.

It would only be silly becuase the spells are crippled, which they shouldn't be. They're already less MP and cast delay efficient, they don't also need to be statistically inferior.

Virtually all MMOs provide healer classes with a limited selection of offensive abilities for the sake of soloing and for the sake of "I may as well do something since I don't need to heal anybody right now." FFXI is the only one I've played that doesn't. Even most single player FF games gave white mages more powerful attack magic spells than this.

No one said WHM is supposed to be a DPS and that's not what this is about, but WHM is one of the worst classes to have to solo with, and DPS trusts for the most part are rather weak. Their strength in this area can be improved without them suddenly becoming the hot new DD class. If white mage monsters can cast these spells, then white mage players should too.

It matters for the exact reason you said: soloing. How do most people get their CAP? By soloing.

That used to be the way of it.

But soloing on White Mage was never so bad because of a lack of damage toward their white magic nukes. It was so bad because they had to tank the mobs themselves: which made it a miserable chore. Increasing the damage of Banish would not have changed that any really.

Now that White Mages have access to powerful defensive trusts like Trion or Amchuchu (or however you spell her weird name) they are perfectly capable at soloing capacity points. I might even argue they are some of the best in certain situations - since they have powerful party-wide heals to keep trusts alive against some of the more powerful area attacks certain mobs have. So I'm going to have to side with Olor on this one. In the context of soloing - increasing the damage of Banish really isn't going to add much. Unless SE were to dramatically increase the damage chances are the White Mage would still end up relying mostly on melee to solo things - except maybe to magic burst with.

That being said: I do agree with you that Banish and Holy are pretty useless spells that need to be buffed. I'm just not sure increasing the damage is the right way to go about it: because that really wouldn't help these spells much to be honest or make them any more useful when soloing. It would be better to give them an evasion down effect or something along those lines to assist the White Mage with their melee attacks.