Abysea "storyline" bosses drops

[Jin_Uzuki]

Would it be possible to change so the items used to progress into Abby storyline are 100% drop?

Even with the future adjustment to trusts, Abysea storyline is hidden behind a proc/pop system inaccessible to a lot of jobs (and sadly, there isn't just much interest in doing it nowadays)

[Stompa]

They might not change this, because it is related to Empy Weapon farming mechanisms. They have previously been reluctant to change other things involved in RME farming mechanisms, they just changed the amount of time you can spend in the areas / size of drops etc. but didn't change the actual methods much.

The ZB Zone Boss pops can be farmed in two ways, without levelling WAR or MNK for procs. Build amber light 255, and around 75% of ZB pops will drop in the large gold chests. Some of these pops, like the Altepa bird, are single KI, and drop in boxes. So those are easy to get. Some of the others you can get say 2/3 of the popset from boxes and then "bluff" the final KI.

Bluffing KIs is when you spam proc weaponskills, but not the correct one, and the game seems to recognise that you at least tried to proc, and gives you the KI anyway. So if you are using staff, just spam Earth Crusher and Sunburst, and you will find that around 30% of the time the game feels sorry for you and gives you the KI without a legit proc. If you don't get the KI, pop the NM again and repeat.

So if they don't change this proc mechanism for you, you can still solo ZB clears on any job, with a bit of determination.
:cool:

[Shirai]

I couldn't care less for any of the physical drops, but indeed to make it easier for starters to get Abyssea clears I personally wouldn't mind having the KI droprate at 100%.
Especially since the game is steering towards a solo experience when it comes to clearing the story content.
You can always leave the guaranteed Atma behind the red proc as you can get the more vital starter Atma during Abyssea campaigns, which I am sure will be repeated.

[Tidis]

Would it be possible to change so the items used to progress into Abby storyline are 100% drop?

Even with the future adjustment to trusts, Abysea storyline is hidden behind a proc/pop system inaccessible to a lot of jobs (and sadly, there isn't just much interest in doing it nowadays)

The KI needed to pop these mobs has a good chance of being obtained even without red, you could farm up the pops without red procs, it would just take a bit longer.

[Stompa]

I couldn't care less for any of the physical drops, but indeed to make it easier for starters to get Abyssea clears I personally wouldn't mind having the KI droprate at 100%.
Especially since the game is steering towards a solo experience when it comes to clearing the story content.
You can always leave the guaranteed Atma behind the red proc as you can get the more vital starter Atma during Abyssea campaigns, which I am sure will be repeated.

They already changed the Aby KI system because people were having problems getting KIs for zone boss clears. First they added the KI's to gold boxes, which drop from easy prey mobs. Then they made the KI drop rate increase from NMs without procs. So they already nerfed this content twice, the question is when does adventure gaming content stop, and just becomes arbitrary like a trip to the supermarket.

I don't have an actual opinion on them nerfing this further, I'm just watching from the background and wondering what kind of adventure is it when you wear lvl 117~119 armor, with 5 trusts and free atmas, to farm triggers and clear bosses that people were beating in lvl 80 armor with no trusts or atmas.

What does sadden me is that people are missing out on the fun of levelling a multi-weapon proc job, skilling the weapons, and engaging NMs to proc them. At the start, the NM was like a locked door, and we went through all our weaponskills, as if they were lockpick tools, trying to unlock the KI. It was a fun minigame, a test of skill, and an adventure. It does feel good when you have lots of weapons capped skill, and swap them in and out while trying to unlock the NMs key item. Its like a moment of victory when you get the "!!".

So I don't care if SE nerf this or not, its none of my business and they will do w/e they want. But I do feel quite sorry for people who would be missing out on the danger / adventure / skill minigame aspect of this battlefield, when they bulldoze everything with 5 trusts and get KIs automatically. Other things like, while farming gold boxes for KI's you might get a nice ring or something that you liked, or a KI for a NM you didn't know existed, which you battle and have fun with. I worry that people will not explore the zones, just pop the sub-bosses and go 1/1 on everything and then never go back to the area lol.

[Shirai]

As I said in my previous post, the game is moving towards the point where you're on your own for story driven content. Abyssea included.
Don't get me wrong, I understand your view because I too love quirky mechanics. But as the game population is now and will be after console support ends it'll be incredibly frustrating to find someone willing to help you trigger the proc or being forced to farm NMs several times because the KI needed to pop the next one isn't dropping.
Heck, a lot of new players nowadays are already strugling to find help doing Adoulin missions, let alone find someone to proc some low level NM with no benefit to the person helping.

[Tidis]

I don't get the attitude of "I don't have the job so I can't do this". Level the job! SE has made exping so trivial these days, back when Abyssea was relevant the dynamic changed and many had to level these Abyssea relevant jobs to stay active and not everyone could just get a leech spot or a key spot in a worm party so were stuck to leveling the slow way, not like now where even without the repeated double exp campaigns, you have 180% boost in exp from rhapsodies KIs alone.

Then the other roadblock, you probably need something like 200 skill to be able to get a good hit rate on abyssea NMs, add to that we have a 100% increase in skill gains from Rhapsodies. Don't have the good atma? Get those first, in level 119 gear we're very hard to kill, magic damage could still present a problem if you don't have a semi-decent MDT set but that's being resolved with trusts inside Abyssea come September.

I'm not going out and accusing anyone of being lazy but by preparing a job now (NIN would be the best choice), it means that you can then do more Abyssea things in the future besides get clears, reforging emp gear to 109, farming materials for weapons, most notably Ochain or Daurdabla.

[Shirai]

You're speaking from a standpoint of someone that's already done all these things so has all those perks available to them.
Try seeing it from the perspective of a player that has just started (over) and needs to do all those things to even get access to the stuff you're talking about.

[Tidis]

How is it any different? Even sparks gear is more than enough for Abyssea, levelling from 1-99 with 5 trusts, 180% exp and regular double exp campaigns is not difficult, skilling up with a 100% skill up bonus and again 5 trusts to keep you going is not difficult.

Where's the wall?

1) Rhapsodies KIs: No, RoV is very easy.
2) Levelling: Nope.
3) Skilling Up: Nope.
4) Utsusemi (if you pick NIN):
Ni: No, scroll is dirt cheap these days.
Ichi: A bit time consuming but not hard, details:

1) Go to Giddeus, commit genocide on the Yagudo, take their bead necklaces.
2) Do this quest repeatedly. http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Mihgo%27s_Amigo
3) Go to Norg and do this quest http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Sahagin%27s_Stash
4) Ichi is yours.

Maybe I'm missing something here but there's isn't much that blocks your progress, if you're absolutely new to Abyssea then you'll be missing key atmas that basically broke the zones for people who were level 85 at the time, looking at you Razed Ruins but we're ilvl now, that more than makes up for a lack of Razed Ruins and when you get Razed Ruins, you just become way more OP.

I don't get what I'm supposed to be not seeing, why can't a new player do all this? If they don't want to level a proc job, fine, but it'll take a bit longer to get KIs to pop NMs.

[Shirai]

Once again, you're speaking from the perspective of someone with all the luxury of knowledge, experience as well as having jobs leveled.
Someone that starts over does not have the luxury of all those exp bonuses, not counting campaigns, needs to have certain nation mission progress to even get to the first RoV KI, needs one job to at least level 30 to be able to unlock advanced jobs, and a very limited choice in trusts of which they can summon only 3 until they progress to the second KI, which involves killing an NM that can pose quite a challenge to a non-ilevel player. Which may not be too much of a problem now with many iLevel players doing Escha, but in 6 months, 9?

The wall? (Any wall can be scaled with proper tools) Getting your first job up there, only to find you can't clear certain (story driven) content because you "don't have the right job available." And us vets telling them to grin and bear it "because we had to go through the same".

Keep in mind, I am purely mentioning the story driven content, which in my opinion should be kept accessible to anyone on any job.
I personally don't see any harm in making KI needed to pop those NMs 100%, I am perfectly fine with keeping any physical drops like AF3 materials and Atma/Abyssite behind the proc system.

[Stompa]

I actually agree with both of you, you both make very valid points.

But one slightly overlooked point, is that the "very new" players we are talking about, who don't have multiple jobs or enough game mileage to obtain the story-locked ROV bonuses, are already capable of defeating all the mightiest NMs in Abyssea when they are still new adventurers, because of sparks 117 gear. Surely the fact that ilvl and skill-up books etc. makes new players uber, is enough, without altering existing battlefields too.

Abyssea was the main core popular content for several years, it wasn't like ACP or AMKD or something that passed in a few months. It was intended to present challenges, that is what made it popular. I wonder if all the challenges are removed, new players will even enjoy it at all, or understand what a ferocious place it once was.

My memory is kind of sketchy, but I think that a while ago somebody asked for ZNM system to be altered to make it easier to farm higher boss NMs, and the official reply was "no, we won't change this system because it is tied to Mythic building" so that may be the same here, except with Empys. I stand to be corrected on this, as I am handicapped and my memory suffers a lot from it, lol.

[Tidis]

When in reference to the OP his profile already says:

Main Class
GEO Lv 99
This isn't a new player, so surely everything I am saying here applies?

As for brand spanking new players, SE already boosted the exp rate regardless of rhapsodies progress, plus you get the first RoV KI without having to fight anything challenging, that gives the 30% EXP boost, 100% skill gain boost, the ability to summon 4 trusts and the first things sold by the curio moogles.

So there's the limit breaks but upon checking, the only ones that require fights now are the 75 and 99 limit breaks, the former everyone had to do at some point, the latter you could probably shout and get someone to just destroy it for you.

As for story content being kept accessible for any job, it is accessible, even if you have to work a bit to be able to clear it, we're not in the dark old days of struggling through CoP, spending hours to get to the fight only to fall apart after 1 failure because one person was impatient, got sick of the mission and left. The only mission line that isn't soloable right now is Adoulin so where's the problem? As for Abyssea, there isn't really much of a story anyway, it's all a lot of recollection of how Abyssea became a mess until you beat all bosses + caturae and it gets revealed what actually happened.

I don't get the argument, what needs to be changed, what needs to be made more accessible? It seems pretty accessible already.

[Shirai]

Pretty much removing the randomness or the necessity to perform certain actions to guarantee the drop of a key item to progress to the next stage.
Sure, there are several ways to get the KI necessary, but they're all tedious in the end. Why not make it a little less tedious?
As far as keeping the whole Empyrian weapons limitation in place, that argument lost its value entirely the moment the Salvage, Einherjar and Dynamis time restrictions were lifted.

[Shirai]

You are aware that the droprate on the items for Empyrian weapons is completely TH based, right? :)
It's the armor items you need to proc for.

But as I said, Leave that intact, just make farming the pops less tedious. They've done it for the VNM, so why not?

[Jin_Uzuki]

When in reference to the OP his profile already says:



I'm not a new player, yes (I already had a character back in toau era, and this is my new character which I started recently when I returned with the campaign).

I already cleared all storylines including Adoulin (currently working toward the add-ons), and the only one I find incredibly obtuse is Abyssea.

I don't see why people are oppose to make the storyline bosses drops to progress into the story 100% drop. Maybe I'm missing something (I'll admit I'm not knowledgeable when it comes to Abyssea, I try to spend very little time in there and I once I got the stuff I needed for my SMN I never returned), but Abyssea storyline is pretty much dead and irrelevant content at this point. ZM, CoP and Toau have been nerfed to death at this point, why does it matter if Abyssea storyline is made accessible too?

[Shirai]

and if anyone wants help with Aby I'm always like SO there in seconds, because I think it is fun to farm popsets / abyssites / atmas and battle bosses. I love it and I'm actually happy when I hear a shout for "ZB help me!" or something lol.

There are not many like you left, and neither can you clone yourself. (Well, you can with current technology, but people still find it unethical.)
When the consoles are shut off there will be even less people like you around so the only other option that remains is level a job that can. Bluntly said, I don't like it and I'm sure I am not the only one, yes, it's become a lot easier but it doesn't make the whole process any more fun.

I like that little equilibrium I have now, a few different jobs that I like to play which are geared well.

That said, it won't make your Empyrian farm easier by that much. You still have to kill the same NMs, just not repeatedly in hopes to be able to pop one single NM.

[Olor]

I think a good compromise would be making sure *all* boss KIs are available in gold chests. That way there is an option for folks who really don't want to level another job, just for abyssea content.

This will also at least partially solve the unfairness of the fact that some jobs can boost empy to 109 with a drop from a boss that has only 1 KI that is found in a chest and others have to beat an NM with 3-4 KIs some of which are not in a chest.

[zataz]

idk i personally like to help people! that said i will never farm currency, power level, or take u to that cutscene as far as killing nms i have no issues helping people. in a linkshell i joinned i farmed all the boss pops and got the clears for everyone that needed them =P nice people exist u just have to look to find them!

[Grekumah]

We have no plans to ease up on the Key Item drop rates in Abyssea.

[Lordkyron]

i had this prob also.
I asked for help to kill a NM on abyssea 4 days ago.
even shouted and no one helped.
My dancer was lv 80 and the nm is ironclad cleaver i need the Dancer drop that gives speed movement

I asked nicely and surprise! no one came LOL
The drop is 100%
So what is the solution, lv up to 99 and try again with trusts.
This is a 100% drop.

Imagine if it wasn't LOL

[Olor]

i had this prob also.
I asked for help to kill a NM on abyssea 4 days ago.
even shouted and no one helped.
My dancer was lv 80 and the nm is ironclad cleaver i need the Dancer drop that gives speed movement

I asked nicely and surprise! no one came LOL
The drop is 100%
So what is the solution, lv up to 99 and try again with trusts.
This is a 100% drop.

Imagine if it wasn't LOL

Do you still need help? I'd be willing to login to help.