Unable to summon trusts in add-on fights and Alexander/Odin fights.

[Jin_Uzuki]

It's not too much of a big deal, given that most of this content can be soloed, however it seems like an oversight given it's possible to summon them in much harder battles like Adoulin storyline fights.

Would it be possible to fix this?

[Grekumah]

In order to help, we need a little more information to determine what's happening.

Are you attempting to summon alter egos for battles related to the avatar quests? If this is the case, this is working as intended, as we designed these encounters to restrict the use of Trust magic. The same applies for Einherjar.

Please let us know if you are unable to summon alter egos while engaged in the Alexander fight related to the battlefield of the Treasure of Aht Urhgan mission "Nashmeira’s Plea." We have tested and confirmed that alter egos can be used for this mission battle.

[Ladynamine]

In order to help, we need a little more information to determine what's happening.

Are you attempting to summon alter egos for battles related to the avatar quests? If this is the case, this is working as intended, as we designed these encounters to restrict the use of Trust magic. The same applies for Einherjar.

Please let us know if you are unable to summon alter egos while engaged in the Alexander fight related to the battlefield of the Treasure of Aht Urhgan mission "Nashmeira’s Plea." We have tested and confirmed that alter egos can be used for this mission battle.

I think he means content where it is not implemented on add-on scenarios A Crystaline Prophecy, A Moogle Kupo d'Etat, A Shantotto Ascension. The other part was answered in your post as far as avatars go.

[Jin_Uzuki]

In order to help, we need a little more information to determine what's happening.

Are you attempting to summon alter egos for battles related to the avatar quests? If this is the case, this is working as intended, as we designed these encounters to restrict the use of Trust magic. The same applies for Einherjar.

Please let us know if you are unable to summon alter egos while engaged in the Alexander fight related to the battlefield of the Treasure of Aht Urhgan mission "Nashmeira’s Plea." We have tested and confirmed that alter egos can be used for this mission battle.

Yes, I was unable to summon trusts for Alexander and Odin avatar fights. I see that's intended so I'll deal with it, not like they are hard at 99 anyway.


Now for the other part of the Opening Post, it's as Ladynamine said, trusts are not implemented for add-on fights, A Crystaline Prophecy, A Moogle Kupo d'Etat, A Shantotto Ascension.

Is this intended too or an actual oversight?

[Ladynamine]

In order to help, we need a little more information to determine what's happening.

Are you attempting to summon alter egos for battles related to the avatar quests? If this is the case, this is working as intended, as we designed these encounters to restrict the use of Trust magic. The same applies for Einherjar.

Please let us know if you are unable to summon alter egos while engaged in the Alexander fight related to the battlefield of the Treasure of Aht Urhgan mission "Nashmeira’s Plea." We have tested and confirmed that alter egos can be used for this mission battle.




Yes, I was unable to summon trusts for Alexander and Odin avatar fights. I see that's intended so I'll deal with it, not like they are hard at 99 anyway.


Now for the other part of the Opening Post, it's as Ladynamine said, trusts are not implemented for add-on fights, A Crystaline Prophecy, A Moogle Kupo d'Etat, A Shantotto Ascension.

Is this intended too or an actual oversight?

It is currently intended, but possibly after Rhapsodies of Vana'diel is over with that they may implement a way to call alter egos into the fights. the fights are fairly easy w/o them....just annoying if you get charmed by the crystal lol

[Grekumah]

We have yet to enable the use of Trust magic in battlefields from the level 75 era; however, if we find that the content is difficult to the point where players may need the use of alter egos we’ll consider it.

As for the 3 add-on scenarios, since these battles granted special buffs, we determined the priority low until now. We’ll look into making it possible to use alter egos if we observe that it’s more difficult than intended to clear this content; however, there is also the possibility that we don’t enable Trust magic as the addition of alter egos could possibly make this content far too easy.

[Zarchery]

We have yet to enable the use of Trust magic in battlefields from the level 75 era; however, if we find that the content is difficult to the point where players may need the use of alter egos we’ll consider it.

As for the 3 add-on scenarios, since these battles granted special buffs, we determined the priority low until now. We’ll look into making it possible to use alter egos if we observe that it’s more difficult than intended to clear this content; however, there is also the possibility that we don’t enable Trust magic as the addition of alter egos could possibly make this content far too easy.

It's kinda already too easy with the 99 level cap and Item level gear.

[Rubicant82]

there is also the possibility that we don’t enable Trust magic as the addition of alter egos could possibly make this content far too easy.

This is the new "PS2 limitations". I'll let you in on a little info: The game as a whole is easy, esp with alter egos, but that doesn't stop people from wanting to play.
There is still plenty of challenging content, anything that is "old" content should be able to have the assistants of Alter Egos simply so people who want to do it solo can.

[glenwo2]

This is the new "PS2 limitations". I'll let you in on a little info: The game as a whole is easy, esp with alter egos, but that doesn't stop people from wanting to play.
There is still plenty of challenging content, anything that is "old" content should be able to have the assistants of Alter Egos simply so people who want to do it solo can.

Exactly! In Those Who Lurk in Shadows (III) battle, for example, you're basically going 1-against-4 if you want to do it solo and that never ends well. I should know because I'm a level 99 Warrior(equipped with all the Eminent Armor and weapons acquired via Sparks of Eminence) and tried several times to complete that battle but only managed to kill ONE of the four before being killed myself. Whereas if I had the use of Trust, this wouldn't be that much of an issue.

Not allowing the use of Trust in that situation is almost like a punishment against Solo'ers who dare to do this alone and it forces the player to do 1 of 2 things :

1.) Seek out another real-time player and basically BEG him/her to come with you just to complete a mission they may have already completed a long time ago and have no time for (Negotiations, negotiations, negotiations, blahblahblah....ZZZZzzzz)

OR

2.) Do what I've done and just IGNORE that "content"-arc and focus on the ones that do allow trusts. I would love to complete "A Crystalline Prophecy" but without me being allowed to use them in that battle, I've reached a dead-end(no pun intended) so I'm forced to just ignore it and do the other add-ons instead.


So to Grekumah(if you're reading this), please strongly consider allowing Trusts in the "old" content(Crystalline Prophecy, in particular). If not, it would forever remain "unfinished business" for me and many others who would rather do things solo than be in a group.

[Kraggy]

So to Grekumah(if you're reading this), please strongly consider allowing Trusts in the "old" content(Crystalline Prophecy, in particular). If not, it would forever remain "unfinished business" for me and many others who would rather do things solo than be in a group.
Totally support this, the argument 'Trust would make it too easy' has no validity for me when it comes to this kind of story-driven content, people aren't FORCED to use Trust if they want a challenge so SE shouldn't use 'too easy' as a reason to prevent those of us who want to do this content to be able to do so.

Ultimately the only purpose for Trust as a system is to allow people to do stuff in a world empty of others, which FFXI will become more and more of very soon now all story content has been released and March 2016 approaches.

[Jin_Uzuki]

You can at least have any people help you, even those who aren't on the mission or didn't do it in the first place. Just be sure it's YOU who starts the BCNM.

But personally, I find weird content like Adulin battlefields allows you to use trusts but old, forgotten content like the add-ons doesn't.

[Urthdigger]

It's kinda already too easy with the 99 level cap and Item level gear.

ACP is still literally impossible unless you're on a pet job.

[glenwo2]

You can at least have any people help you, even those who aren't on the mission or didn't do it in the first place. Just be sure it's YOU who starts the BCNM.

But personally, I find weird content like Adulin battlefields allows you to use trusts but old, forgotten content like the add-ons doesn't.

Yeah you could have any people help you but...who would sit around and waste time TRYING to actually FIND people to help you on a particular mission they may have already completed or(and this is the most likely excuse) HAVE NO TIME FOR?

Whereas with being able to use Trust, you don't need to waste time getting "any people" to help you. You already have help in the form of your Trusts. Plus, there is no "catch" with them unlike with real-time players who "help" where you have to do something for them when you really just want to continue with the Mission Arc.

Doing the former is much like Real-Life. You go and ask someone for help and they're all like "What's in it for me?". And that's the sort of aggravation I(and many other solo'ers here) do NOT want.

Besides, as it was stated, if players wanted it to be a bit more difficult, then THEY can choose *not* to use Trusts in the Battles instead of just forcing everyone not to. It's that simple.

[Fahzewn]

ACP is still literally impossible unless you're on a pet job.

Can't say that using Trusts wouldn't be helpful but I finished ACP without trusts and without a pet job. My gear is 109 Artifact/Empyrean with a GAxe that was slightly better than the Eminent. Arguably, Eminent gear should probably have been used being a higher ilevel and the set bonus but I just didn't bother picking it up.

Have fun with the Moogle fight! Thf/Dnc can solo at the least, again with Eminent weapon, 109 Artifact and +2 Empyrean.

So to recap...ACP and Moogle...possible without trusts, pet jobs and/or other ppl helping. And I can't brag about being an awesome player either...in fact I'm pretty mediocre. I will admit that the end boss for ACP might be luck based...depends how fast you can damage it before it can screw you over probably. Moogle fight is...weird and I don't recall much other than it constantly healing itself and my having to heal myself.

Working on Shantotto still but so far over half of it is soloable.

[Urthdigger]

Can't say that using Trusts wouldn't be helpful but I finished ACP without trusts and without a pet job. My gear is 109 Artifact/Empyrean with a GAxe that was slightly better than the Eminent. Arguably, Eminent gear should probably have been used being a higher ilevel and the set bonus but I just didn't bother picking it up.

Have fun with the Moogle fight! Thf/Dnc can solo at the least, again with Eminent weapon, 109 Artifact and +2 Empyrean.

So to recap...ACP and Moogle...possible without trusts, pet jobs and/or other ppl helping. And I can't brag about being an awesome player either...in fact I'm pretty mediocre. I will admit that the end boss for ACP might be luck based...depends how fast you can damage it before it can screw you over probably. Moogle fight is...weird and I don't recall much other than it constantly healing itself and my having to heal myself.

Working on Shantotto still but so far over half of it is soloable.

You must have been extremely lucky then. Being solo means anytime it uses Seeds of Deference and charms you, it will just regen to full HP, and you're out any resources you used before that point like your 2h. The only way it's possible is if you go the entire fight without that being used. So, I'd hardly call that easy.

[Zarchery]

You must have been extremely lucky then. Being solo means anytime it uses Seeds of Deference and charms you, it will just regen to full HP, and you're out any resources you used before that point like your 2h. The only way it's possible is if you go the entire fight without that being used. So, I'd hardly call that easy.

Charm automatically depops all Trusts. If Charm is fight losing factor, Trusts won't help.

[Urthdigger]

Charm automatically depops all Trusts. If Charm is fight losing factor, Trusts won't help.

Charm doesn't work on trusts. Tank trusts, and staying out of AoE range solves that. They also make it more possible to just try and burn it down before it uses the move.

[Zarchery]

Charm doesn't work on trusts. Tank trusts, and staying out of AoE range solves that. They also make it more possible to just try and burn it down before it uses the move.

Ok I just fought this in about 45 seconds flat. I cannot conceive of anybody in item level gear having trouble with this.

[glenwo2]

Ok I just fought this in about 45 seconds flat. I cannot conceive of anybody in item level gear having trouble with this.

If you tried the battle in Those Who Lurk In Shadows III(that's in the Crystalline Prophecy), you wouldn't be saying that. It's one-against-four and even with all the item level gear(I have all of it, too), the best I could do is kill one of them before they overwhelmed me.

In fact, it's a safer bet you'd get "KO'ed" in 45 seconds flat there. This is why Trusts NEED to be an option EVERYWHERE in ANY SCENARIO(both Original and Add-on's) because players out there aren't going to continue to play particular FFXI scenarios if they're going to be stuck in a battle they just can't win no matter what buffs they use.

[Zarchery]

Ok I tried fighting seed crystal again... he actually is kinda tough in Sparks gear without using Hundred Fists.

[Zarchery]

If you tried the battle in Those Who Lurk In Shadows III(that's in the Crystalline Prophecy), you wouldn't be saying that. It's one-against-four and even with all the item level gear(I have all of it, too), the best I could do is kill one of them before they overwhelmed me.

Try using zombie tactics for situations like that. Put on Reraise, drag the mobs far away from spawn point. Kill as may as you can before you drop. Let them return to their spawn point. Reraise and recover. Put reraise on again, start the cycle over. Should get easier when you have fewer targets pounding you.

I'm not saying I'm opposed to allowing Trusts in these fights. Just trying to help.

As for Seed Crystal.... you can sub DNC (you really should if you're a melee trying to solo stuff) and stun Seed of Deference.

[bungiefanNA]

Weakness from Reraise doubles your delay on spell casting, spell cooldown, and weapon swings. Getting reraised again before weakness wears makes your attacks do 0 damage. IIRC, that boss regenerates HP, and so do the monsters.

[Catmato]

Getting reraised again before weakness wears makes your attacks do 0 damage.
That only applies to magic attacks and ranged accuracy.

[Zarchery]

Weakness from Reraise doubles your delay on spell casting, spell cooldown, and weapon swings. Getting reraised again before weakness wears makes your attacks do 0 damage. IIRC, that boss regenerates HP, and so do the monsters.

I know. It also cuts your max HP in half. That's why I said to recover after reraising.

Zombie tactics are for, specifically, fights of this sort against multiple enemies where you have a decent shot of taking one down before you die. Monsters can't regenerate from being dead.

[Fahzewn]

If you tried the battle in Those Who Lurk In Shadows III(that's in the Crystalline Prophecy), you wouldn't be saying that. It's one-against-four and even with all the item level gear(I have all of it, too), the best I could do is kill one of them before they overwhelmed me.

I'm not trying to argue about the trusts being used when I ask but what sub were you using? Do you use Berserk/Aggressor or leave it off? Meds? Some of these could be your problem with soloing it.

It's very likely that I got extremely lucky on the 4-on-1 fight and the Seed fight but I was War/Sam and the 4-on-1 wasn't that bad really though chasing the Thf was annoying and the Seed fight left me in the very red and I think I used one Vile Elixer (can't remember if it was a +1 or not). I don't recall if I used Mighty Strikes during the Seed fight but I suspect I did.

[glenwo2]

I'm not trying to argue about the trusts being used when I ask but what sub were you using? Do you use Berserk/Aggressor or leave it off? Meds? Some of these could be your problem with soloing it.

It's very likely that I got extremely lucky on the 4-on-1 fight and the Seed fight but I was War/Sam and the 4-on-1 wasn't that bad really though chasing the Thf was annoying and the Seed fight left me in the very red and I think I used one Vile Elixer (can't remember if it was a +1 or not). I don't recall if I used Mighty Strikes during the Seed fight but I suspect I did.

I always use the White Mage sub because I need to have the ability to heal and be able to use Sneak/Invisible in my journeys without needing to have to stock up on Silent Oils and Prism Powders. As far as the abilities, I've used whatever I had(Mighty Strikes, Warcry, Berserk, etc.) and still I ended up only able to kill one before getting KO'ed. And you know what's even more annoying? The fact that in order to do the battle again, I am FORCED to have to go look for the Seed Afterglows(or whatever they're called) again just to get to that point.

Anyway, the point is that you shouldn't need to have to be "extremely lucky" in the first place. It's not like this is the FINAL BOSS of ACP or anything. With being able to use Trust in this battle(in particular), you would have trusts that(like Kupipi for example) would heal you automatically and/or remove any status ailments(and those 4 really nail you with status ailments) you would receive. Plus, trusts like Rugahdeen(another example) would use flash to draw attention to him(and not you) thus allowing you to basically stay alive and keep attacking your chosen opponent.

Glad you were able to get through it but a battle like that should not be so difficult where you need to be "extremely lucky" to get through it. IMO(and I've said this before), if people want to NOT use trusts in a battle, it should be *their* decision and not be one that is forced on everyone that just wants to enjoy playing the game.

This is why I'm hoping that in the next update(not this one), they allow the use of trust in the Add-ons(ACP, etc.). Otherwise, players are just going to ignore it and not finish it.

[Zarchery]

I always use the White Mage sub because I need to have the ability to heal and be able to use Sneak/Invisible in my journeys without needing to have to stock up on Silent Oils and Prism Powders. As far as the abilities, I've used whatever I had(Mighty Strikes, Warcry, Berserk, etc.) and still I ended up only able to kill one before getting KO'ed. And you know what's even more annoying? The fact that in order to do the battle again, I am FORCED to have to go look for the Seed Afterglows(or whatever they're called) again just to get to that point.

WHM is a terrible subjob for any melee. DNC sub will get you sneak and invisible via Spectral Jig along with Curing Waltz and Healing Waltz, which are a lot more complementary to a melee job.

[Kensagaku]

...Well, actually part of the problem IS subjob. Go /WHM to gather the seeds, then head back to town and change sjs, as there's a home point near the arena entrance. You have several options to gain an advantage; WAR/NIN for shadows and Dual-Wield, though I'd probably still use a shield offhand as you'd be surprised how potent Savage Blade is now; WAR/SAM gives you Seigan + Third Eye for your advantage, and if you're patient and Meditate up before you engage, to 2000 TP (1800, rather, and I don't think buffs wear when you go in so you can do so outside?), you can Engage > Sekkanoki > double WS to take one out immediately or, once your gear improves, a double Fell Cleave would probably take things out, especially with your 1 hour abilities up; or WAR/DNC, which while it forces you to use your TP for healing, gives you the ability to easily heal statuses and damage by using TP, which a WAR using a GA shouldn't have many problems getting.

Preparation for solo fights is a big deal. Consider meds such as as a Vile Elixir to help with healing, an Icarus Wing for you to do three rapid fire WS (if /SAM; Sekkanoki at 2k -> Fell Cleave x3 would probably leave a huge dent in all of them if not wipe them out), food such as Tavnazian Tacos for defense or, if you're feeling like a gamble with the three WS combo, get some attack food like RCBs as I don't think accuracy is a problem in these fights.

You may also want to examine your gear. I remember clearing this fight solo pretty easy before iLvl gear, though admittedly that was on BST, but I was in the days of using our favorite TH ladybug and I was too cheap to use Dawn Mulsims. Rather than trying full Sparks gear, you may want to consider doing things like getting your reforged Empyrean armor, etc. Sparks gear is okay, but the overall stats on them are very lackluster. They're meant to be a temporary hold-over until you get proper iLvl gear, whatever their iLvl says.

Finally, and I hate to say this last part, but remember that the [Job Change] button in your MH is there for a reason; not every job was meant to solo. NIN/DNC, BST/NIN (or /dnc), RDM/NIN, etc. WAR was built as a pure DD class, so its survivability lies purely in your subjob and DT sets.

[Fahzewn]

Pretty much what the two above me said. War/Dnc is a much better choice in regards to healing alone. Getting Protect and Shell up might be a boon but they sell scrolls for that now for either sparks or accolades and probably give the highest tier for your level at the time of use as opposed to subbing Whm that will give you lesser versions. That is assuming that you enter the actual fight with /Whm, which so far you haven't actually said you did from what I've read...just to travel around.

For Berserk, I know it's the bread and butter of War but if you are trying to survive, Berserk is not something to be used for what could be a drawn out fight unless you have A) Trusts or B) someone to help you with healing. If it was only one mob to kill and you want it down fast, then Berserk is ok but still only if under certain conditions imo.

I.E. Mighty Strikes and Aggressor so it's not Mighty Miss, /Sam, Icarus wing is optional but useful, especially if not subbing Sam.

Again, Trusts should be allowed and really makes no sense to not allow them at this point but if you are going to attempt soloing things, you have to at least prepare for it.

Btw, I believe on the 4-on-1 fight, hate is ping-ponged around so a tank Trust would only go so far.

[Kensagaku]

Indeed, hate is extremely loose in that fight. I did it back before ilvl on BST, and I remember having to spam Noisome Powder with the ladybug to keep everything focused on it, so even with Trusts you're gonna see lots of ping-ponging. That being said, I'm not against them being added; I'm simply stating that there's a lot of factors that were left vague that could change things drastically.

[glenwo2]

Lots of preparation and lots of items to have...and to use...when to use them...how to use them.

With Trusts, you just go, fight, and get the job done. That's it.

Let me put it to you all another way : I would've NEVER been able to get past the Maat Limit Break if it wasn't for trusts finally being allowed. I had followed the directions to the letter of how to beat Maat without any trusts but the results claimed were not showing up in reality. Once trusts got the okay to be used, I beat Maat's azz finally. Otherwise, I would've stopped playing this game a long time ago. Hence, my argument for the use of Trusts in the Add-ons.

And as far as the Dancer job goes, it sounds like a good job to go after.

[Fahzewn]

I think at this point we aren't really trying to argue against having Trusts in the Add-On fights, we're just trying to give some ideas to you so you can go on with what you have to win the fight.

That said, if you still need to clear that part of the fight, we are on the same server and I'm typically on every night lately if you want help. You'll have to settle for my Thf though for the time being as my War and Mnk are packed up for the next week or so.

Btw, the Trusts doesn't eliminate preparation from the fight...just lessens it.

[Zarchery]

Lots of preparation and lots of items to have...and to use...when to use them...how to use them.

With Trusts, you just go, fight, and get the job done. That's it.

Let me put it to you all another way : I would've NEVER been able to get past the Maat Limit Break if it wasn't for trusts finally being allowed. I had followed the directions to the letter of how to beat Maat without any trusts but the results claimed were not showing up in reality. Once trusts got the okay to be used, I beat Maat's azz finally. Otherwise, I would've stopped playing this game a long time ago. Hence, my argument for the use of Trusts in the Add-ons.

And as far as the Dancer job goes, it sounds like a good job to go after.

I get the sense you're not going to be around much longer. You don't have much tolerance for adversity.

[glenwo2]

I get the sense you're not going to be around much longer. You don't have much tolerance for adversity.

Much longer for what, if I may ask? The game or this forum? 'Cause I have done nothing here to offend anyone.

Still, if you want me to shut up and stop posting, I'll do it. My whole point was more or less directed to the people in charge of making the updates anyway.

Take care.

[Allellujah]

Yeah I agree it is ridiculous at this point for an older content argument and the game winding down AND people focusing on new content that trusts will make it too easy lol. It's pretty absurd tbh because you have very, very few players doing that content if any and the old tactics just do not apply to the state of the games community in 2015/2016.

I mean who really gives a .... if it makes a addon content from yearrs ago easier at this point.

I was going to finish up some older addon I just never got around to doing with my ls all those years ago but pfft forget it now. I remember trying to solo that Lurk III fight..forget that. I am all for preparation and strategy like the old days but not for older content.

Flawed reasoning. Do you want people who come back to enjoy that stuff or it be a pain in the a** trying to get help which is futile for older content.

Here's an idea.. let's make Dynamis soloable.. now let's allow players to use trusts in there too! But noo.. we wouldn't dare think of doing that for some add on content lol where the rewards are meh anymore. Take the idea out of your heads that you want people to focus on teamwork and strategies for that older stuff.. it does not apply anymore.

It was great when it came out.. not so much now.

[Mcdohl]

Has this not been considered yet?

Waiting on this to really come back to the game.