Availability of HMPs, Riftcinders, Riftdross

[BurnNotice]

Due to a very low supply of these items, along with the lack of interested people have in participating in doing voidwatch, very low drop rate, I find it extremely hard and unreasonable to complete empyrean weapons, unlike mythic and relic weapons where you can farm your materials and complete the weapons in a reasonable amount of time.

I would like to know what will be done about this? Has there been conversation to at least expand the availability of these items into other events and into Abyssea?

Thank you.

[BurnNotice]

Sorry for any grammar errors. I am typing this on my phone with big fingers. Lol.

[Zarchery]

The devs have chimed in before and said there was something in the works to make it easier, but like Cait Sith and Atomos summons, they seem to be a long ways away. Maybe Curio Vendor Moogles will start selling them after completion of Rhapsodies of Vana'diel.

[BurnNotice]

Now that you mentioned it, I do remember that. Dang, that had to have been longer than a year ago. I find it disappointing that there hasn't been a follow-up on this subject. I would at least like to have a 119 empy before the final chapter (119 salvage/assault gear would be a plus!)

[Stompa]

There is a huge gulf between the solo/lowman ease of building of Relic/Mythic, and Empys. Empy is hamstrung by being shackled to the VW alliance proc / random loot system, which doesn't apply to the other two legendary weapon classes. The fact you can do fifty VW with full lights, and if you are really unlucky you can get zero empy mats, just loads of flowers and fishes, is a huge fail. It wouldn't happen that way if you were building relic or mythic, you will always get something when you farmed mats for those.

[Traxus]

Even if you had auto-filled lights, farming VW for crafting mats, emp items, etc. would still be terrible, because the drop system was designed to be spread across 18 players.

[BurnNotice]

There is a huge gulf between the solo/lowman ease of building of Relic/Mythic, and Empys. Empy is hamstrung by being shackled to the VW alliance proc / random loot system, which doesn't apply to the other two legendary weapon classes. The fact you can do fifty VW with full lights, and if you are really unlucky you can get zero empy mats, just loads of flowers and fishes, is a huge fail. It wouldn't happen that way if you were building relic or mythic, you will always get something when you farmed mats for those.

Totally agree with you Stompa. This is also why I strongly suggest the Dev Team to look into other ways for us to obtain these items.

[Alhanelem]

Due to a very low supply of these items, along with the lack of interested people have in participating in doing voidwatch, very low drop rate, I find it extremely hard and unreasonable to complete empyrean weapons, unlike mythic and relic weapons where you can farm your materials and complete the weapons in a reasonable amount of time.

I would like to know what will be done about this? Has there been conversation to at least expand the availability of these items into other events and into Abyssea?

Thank you.If you play through Rhapsodies, there are some nerfs to voidwatch in there, including the VNM nerfing items being much cheaper. It should be eaiser to farm this now. All they really need now is to make sure trust can be used (I don't know if they can now or not?)

You don't need to bring a bunch of extra people just for the sake of procs anymore, after you get through rhaposdies you can change the mob's weaknesses basically any time you want (if you discover that you can't proc it)

[Olor]

There is a huge gulf between the solo/lowman ease of building of Relic/Mythic, and Empys. Empy is hamstrung by being shackled to the VW alliance proc / random loot system, which doesn't apply to the other two legendary weapon classes. The fact you can do fifty VW with full lights, and if you are really unlucky you can get zero empy mats, just loads of flowers and fishes, is a huge fail. It wouldn't happen that way if you were building relic or mythic, you will always get something when you farmed mats for those.

I like voidwatch a lot and I agree with this. It has long since ceased to be a good method to distribute these items (as is). If voidwatch was changed to be more like abyssea so it was sensible to do it with a party of six or less it might be viable, especially if drops are increased a little bit. But the current system is very unreasonable for the players we have.


If you play through Rhapsodies, there are some nerfs to voidwatch in there, including the VNM nerfing items being much cheaper. It should be eaiser to farm this now. All they really need now is to make sure trust can be used (I don't know if they can now or not?)

You don't need to bring a bunch of extra people just for the sake of procs anymore, after you get through rhaposdies you can change the mob's weaknesses basically any time you want (if you discover that you can't proc it)

This is a ludicrous comment. Even with conscious people trying to proc it can be difficult to get procs. Fuming every 5 seconds doesn't help much - and cells really only help defeat the monster not proc it. They should reduce procs (one of each kind of spell - ie one blue spell of each element, one elemental spell of each element, one song of each element, one of each kind of divine spell, one of each kind of enfeeble etc) so that it is less stupid to try to proc it.

It's still possible to finish empys (I know a couple of people who led voidwatch till it happened) but for the average person it is just another huge hurdle to finishing a difficult weapon.

[Stompa]

If you play through Rhapsodies, there are some nerfs to voidwatch in there, including the VNM nerfing items being much cheaper. It should be eaiser to farm this now. All they really need now is to make sure trust can be used (I don't know if they can now or not?)

You don't need to bring a bunch of extra people just for the sake of procs anymore, after you get through rhaposdies you can change the mob's weaknesses basically any time you want (if you discover that you can't proc it)


Its not really about displacers, or even about easier procs. It is about the random lucky loot factor, and how that luck factor should play a very small role in the farming of legendary weapon mats.

My Empy LS which I spammed Qilin with for years, we will do 12-pop runs, alliance, 100% maxed lights every time. The guy standing next to me might randomly get four bags of HMP and go home with 50~ plates. I have had countless 12-pop maxed lights runs where I got zero plates. On occasion I have been 0 hmp on 50x Qilin maxed lights.

The point is that if you farmed currencies for your Relic / Mythic / Ergon, and you went home after a 3-hour farming session, with zero currency, you'd be upset. And yet for some reason this actually happens with Empys, and can just snowball with zero drops for weeks on end.

HMP/cinders reminds me of Alluvion Skirmish augments. Its totally luck based, in both cases.

I'm not complaining, because the VW group I belong to are my Japanese friends, they are always great fun to party with, and also I think its cool to pop big NMs and proc them. So VW is fun for me at least, my problem is the "Zero Progress" factor. If you do a three hour VW run, and your Empy is at 1010 / 1500 HMP before the run, and then after three hours run is finished, your Empy is still at 1010 / 1500 HMP, that is zero progress on your weapon. At least with Relic / Mythic / Ergon you will always make some progress every time you go farm your currency for three hours.

So maybe VW should have a basic rate, for example if the lights are capped then everybody gets 5 HMP each, with additional possible chance of a lucky bag too. The problem is that now you can literally just get logs and rocks lol, and your weapon progress can be at a standstill, for weeks at a time, based on luck.
:p

[BurnNotice]

If you play through Rhapsodies, there are some nerfs to voidwatch in there, including the VNM nerfing items being much cheaper. It should be eaiser to farm this now. All they really need now is to make sure trust can be used (I don't know if they can now or not?)

You don't need to bring a bunch of extra people just for the sake of procs anymore, after you get through rhaposdies you can change the mob's weaknesses basically any time you want (if you discover that you can't proc it)

Even with rhaposdies KIs, the the drops from VW still remain the same. I still count how many times it takes me to kill Morta just to get one riftcinder/riftdross...and not just myself, but with a few other folks. To kill Morta between 10 to 20 (my record was actually 27 kills before seeing one) times for one riftcinder/riftdross is very stressful.

[Alhanelem]

Yes, as people have pointed out, the drop rate is ass, which is the real problem. But at least you don't have to get a mess of other people just to actually do it, which is a start.

[BurnNotice]

Yeah, I hear you. Man, but all the time spent into getting these items, its pretty much unrealistic. I hope someone from the Dev team cares to chime in on this topic and tell us what to expect.

[BurnNotice]

*Bump*

Look for more support for this thread and the Dev's response to this as well.

[Grekumah]

We currently do not have any plans to increase the availability and acquisition of Heavy Metal Plates, Riftcinders, and Riftdross.

[Zhronne]

We currently do not have any plans to increase the availability and acquisition of Heavy Metal Plates, Riftcinders, and Riftdross.
Did you guys change your mind? You said something different a few months ago.

[BurnNotice]

We currently do not have any plans to increase the availability and acquisition of Heavy Metal Plates, Riftcinders, and Riftdross.

Grekumah, with all due respect sir, that response is unacceptable. There has been nothing but problems gathering these items, at least for Riftcinders and Riftdross, to the point that they are nearly nonexisting. I am sure this is the case on most servers that also have people that are no longer interested in VWs. Grekumah, I would like for the team to take a serious look into this. I am all for a challenge in acquiring these items if they came from other battle content, but as of right now, this is ridiculous.

[Rubeus]

Zhronne, that would be this page here, post #4, in October of last year.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/44661-Very-low-supply-of-HMP-Riftcinder-and-Riftdross?highlight=riftcinder

maybe the dev team should run for president. they clearly have the hang of american politics already.

[bazookatooth]

Zhronne, that would be this page here, post #4, in October of last year.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/44661-Very-low-supply-of-HMP-Riftcinder-and-Riftdross?highlight=riftcinder

maybe the dev team should run for president. they clearly have the hang of american politics already.

They added them to the special gobbie dial. All our problems are solved :)

[Zhronne]

Zhronne, that would be this page here, post #4, in October of last year.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/44661-Very-low-supply-of-HMP-Riftcinder-and-Riftdross?highlight=riftcinder

maybe the dev team should run for president. they clearly have the hang of american politics already.
It's not like they don't have all rights to change their minds.
But at least give us a satisfying answer.

Like "After a lot of thoughts we decided for the reason X to leave things as they are", period.
That would've been enough instead of these copy/paste replies they're forcing the poor Community reps to post.
After all they are at no fault, they just post translated comments from the JP dev team.

[Nimlith]

I've got no issues collecting plates or cinders/dross, just wish the weapons were worth the effort

[Elexia]

I've got no issues collecting plates or cinders/dross, just wish the weapons were worth the effort

^ The availability is perfectly fine. Do the content..? Especially Ilvl now unless the content no longer drops them per design change I'd understand, but I'm fairly certain everything that did produce these still does. I assume people just want to buy them.

[Ulth]

The availability is not fine. You do the content, and they don't drop. That's the problem. Drop rates are designed to be split across 18 people, so even if you can get full lights with 2 or 3 you still need 15 people to just stand around and be bored in the hopes of getting something they can sell.

[Olor]

I do think the drop rates should be adjusted. I like voidwatch. I actually really enjoy doing it. I've spent a lot of time doing it with LSmates finishing empys. But the time to reward ratio is crummy. Even if, at the very least, more good drops were added, it would help. Like if plates and crafting materials were added to the mobs that drop cinders and dross, that would be swell, cause at least then you'd have a better chance of making *some* gil. But I've had too many cider/dross runs end up with zero drops to be very excited about doing them without it being about more than just making gil, cause really I can make gil a lot faster doing dynamis... or whatever.

[BurnNotice]

Myself and people across all servers are tired of the poor drop rate and availability of these items. Never seen this kind of struggle with Mythics or Relics. The development should visit this topic, as it was mentioned per the link provided in this discussion from 10/14/2014 (thanks for posting btw), and implement something as soon as possible. It's almost a year.

[bazookatooth]

I just think it's dumb that the weakest of the three weapon lines (RME) is the only one that still requires a group to farm for it. I personally think that the proc system should be completely separated from the drop system so that people can just kill the stuff with as many or as few people as they want on whatever jobs they want without having to worry about procs. That had it's place, getting people to use every job back in the day instead of just sam and war. But now it's just a hindrance as you can rarely find all the jobs.

[Zeargi]

The drops do need to increase, because now it's even to the point where certain Relic Upgrade items aren't anywhere to be found either.


I just think it's dumb that the weakest of the three weapon lines (RME) is the only one that still requires a group to farm for it. I personally think that the proc system should be completely separated from the drop system so that people can just kill the stuff with as many or as few people as they want on whatever jobs they want without having to worry about procs. That had it's place, getting people to use every job back in the day instead of just sam and war. But now it's just a hindrance as you can rarely find all the jobs.

They did do a weakness trigger update for those that got so far in the RoV Missions, but for a Mage using Trusts it's completely useless. Because if you aren't the main target, you can't /fume and re-do the Weakness.

Which is why I have greater doubts about Trusts being added to places like Abyssea, they just don't have the AI to do the Proc systems of either of these content.

[Gwydion]

I feel that HMP, Riftcinders and Riftdross need a drop rate adjustment.

The empy weapons are just subpar...I mean come on, +50 base damage, only +5% delay, same STR adjusment, and an additional +40 attack AND quadruple attack+4%!

https://cdn.bg-wiki.com/images/7/70/Ukonvasara_%28Level_119%29_description.png

VS.

https://cdn.bg-wiki.com/images/e/e2/20847_description.png

[bazookatooth]

I feel that HMP, Riftcinders and Riftdross need a drop rate adjustment.

The empy weapons are just subpar...I mean come on, +50 base damage, only +5% delay, same STR adjusment, and an additional +40 attack AND quadruple attack+4%!

https://cdn.bg-wiki.com/images/7/70/Ukonvasara_%28Level_119%29_description.png

VS.

https://cdn.bg-wiki.com/images/e/e2/20847_description.png

Just adjusting the aftermath to where it works on weapon skills would be a game changer for some of them.

[Gwydion]

Just adjusting the aftermath to where it works on weapon skills would be a game changer for some of them.

What do you mean? I find that aftermath for some events is just difficult to consistently keep active (like Delve or events that require you to move from camp to camp).

[bazookatooth]

What do you mean? I find that aftermath for some events is just difficult to consistently keep active (like Delve or events that require you to move from camp to camp).

You can't really keep it up on on the fodder in delve, but it isn't hard to get 300 tp on the nms. Unless you're doing it with no buffs, it should take like 10 seconds.

[Ulth]

There are some things about keeping mythic aftermath up I would change though. For one it would be nice if it would overwrite itself. Right now you have to wait for it to wear off before you can apply it again, and it can't be clicked off either. Another would be tp bonus counting towards aftermath. Sam and bst would benefit most from that, but pretty much every job has tp bonus because of moonshade.

[Gwydion]

There are some things about keeping mythic aftermath up I would change though. For one it would be nice if it would overwrite itself. Right now you have to wait for it to wear off before you can apply it again, and it can't be clicked off either. Another would be tp bonus counting towards aftermath. Sam and bst would benefit most from that, but pretty much every job has tp bonus because of moonshade.

Yeah, aftermath overwriting itself would be great!

[BurnNotice]

I wish aftermath overwriting was implemented eons ago. Also, mythic and relic ws needs adjustments anyway. I am sure they can be much stronger than they are now. I cant really say how powerful empy ws are on their original weapon if it needs adjustments or not (because we are still dealing with the fact that we cant get a decent drop rate or availability of these items from other content!!)

[BurnNotice]

***Bump***

I would like to know if this can be brought up to the developers. I know the last statement was "We have no plans....". What I am asking for is to please ask the developers to make plans for this. Put this on the priority table. It's ridiculous and frustrating not only farm for these at an unreasonable low drop rate, but very little to no HMPs available on the server (what, at most 100 hmps now????) I solo'ed VWs and did them in groups up to 18 ppl and end result is maybe one or two ppl will see HMP pouches drop one time in 6 to 12 runs.

Come on, just increase the drop for these at least or make a High-Tier Battle Content for VWs with double or trip HMPs, HMP pouches, riftcinders and riftdross. Do a campaign for these like all the others. Just do something and not let this content and items go to waste. Thank you.

[Olor]

I agree right now it's just silly... also it's hard to get relic upgrade materials now too outside of login points events...

[Rubicant82]

With the RoV KIs giving a discount on the Phase KIs that weaken voidwatch monsters it is consecutively "easier" to get things like HMP/Ross/Cinder unless you are like me and can count on one hand how many of those item you have gotten out of the countless kills of voidwatchs monsters.
It would be nice to have the drop rates of these items increased to 100% for 1 of said item from the monster and a % of chance for multiple. That wont ever happen, but even a bump up in drop rates would be awesome! OR The ability to buy them from the moogles with the next set of RoV KIs!! :D

[BurnNotice]

With the RoV KIs giving a discount on the Phase KIs that weaken voidwatch monsters it is consecutively "easier" to get things like HMP/Ross/Cinder unless you are like me and can count on one hand how many of those item you have gotten out of the countless kills of voidwatchs monsters.
It would be nice to have the drop rates of these items increased to 100% for 1 of said item from the monster and a % of chance for multiple. That wont ever happen, but even a bump up in drop rates would be awesome! OR The ability to buy them from the moogles with the next set of RoV KIs!! :D

I hear you. I've been doing tons of Aello and Uptala for HMP pouch. Maybe after about 30 ~ 45 fights per week, I may see HMP pouch once (except this week, I am at fight 47 and nothing yet). I don't know if its sad that I am keep track like this or even bother with doing VWs with such a extremely poor return, but one thing is for sure, this has to change and I urge the development to make arrangements into how these items can be more accessible.

[Vanfrano]

I hear you. I've been doing tons of Aello and Uptala for HMP pouch. Maybe after about 30 ~ 45 fights per week, I may see HMP pouch once (except this week, I am at fight 47 and nothing yet). I don't know if its sad that I am keep track like this or even bother with doing VWs with such a extremely poor return, but one thing is for sure, this has to change and I urge the development to make arrangements into how these items can be more accessible.

Are you using Cobalt Cells and have blue/red KI enhancements? Because I've been doing a lot of Qilin solo since the /fume change and I get one Heavy Metal Pouch every 12~15 fights, even when I'm not lucky enough to get an Extreme Vulnerability to cap all lights. I tried with Cobalt and Rubicond cells but I get less pouches this way so I'm only using Cobalt now.

[BurnNotice]

Are you using Cobalt Cells and have blue/red KI enhancements? Because I've been doing a lot of Qilin solo since the /fume change and I get one Heavy Metal Pouch every 12~15 fights, even when I'm not lucky enough to get an Extreme Vulnerability to cap all lights. I tried with Cobalt and Rubicond cells but I get less pouches this way so I'm only using Cobalt now.

Yes sir. I use Cobalt Cells along with the Rub cells. Pass few days, I did between 15~20 fights before seeing one. Sometime yesterday, I did about 24 fights and haven't seen one. Oddly enough I did get that last HMP pouch with no procs. :)

[Vanfrano]

Yes sir. I use Cobalt Cells along with the Rub cells. Pass few days, I did between 15~20 fights before seeing one. Sometime yesterday, I did about 24 fights and haven't seen one. Oddly enough I did get that last HMP pouch with no procs. :)

I had bad luck yesterday and only got one after around 40 fights, with almost no lights. I understand that it bothers some people not seeing any drop for several fights, I guess it doesn't bother me that much but it is perfectly understandable that some don't like the system as it is.

[BurnNotice]

I had bad luck yesterday and only got one after around 40 fights, with almost no lights. I understand that it bothers some people not seeing any drop for several fights, I guess it doesn't bother me that much but it is perfectly understandable that some don't like the system as it is.

40 fights, ouch! :(

This is why I can't understand why the development team can't make appropriate changes. I understand if they don't want to add the items to other content, but at least increase the drop rate, run a campaign event, or add it to High Tier Battlefields.
I notice that they have announce new weapons called Aeonic Weapons and possess an aftermath effect that enables the activation of new skillchains that surpass light and darkness. I will be very disappointed that if these weapons are easier to get than empys.

[Zeargi]

40 fights, ouch! :(

This is why I can't understand why the development team can't make appropriate changes. I understand if they don't want to add the items to other content, but at least increase the drop rate, run a campaign event, or add it to High Tier Battlefields.
I notice that they have announce new weapons called Aeonic Weapons and possess an aftermath effect that enables the activation of new skillchains that surpass light and darkness. I will be very disappointed that if these weapons are easier to get than empys.

Oh no, It's going to require you to have the Relic, Mythic, and Emp of the same type lvl 99+. You also have to have all clears for Dynamis, Salvage 1 & 2, Einherjar, Odin 1 & 2, Vagary, Delve, Nyzul Uncharted, Completed all Quests in the game, All Missions Completed, Killed Every NM in the game so you can have them checked off in this Key Item check list Book, and then have a Syngery Group craft the items with all 100 Skills in Smithing, Goldsmithing, Clothcraft, Alchemy, Leathercraft, and Woodworking

[bazookatooth]

Oh no, It's going to require you to have the Relic, Mythic, and Emp of the same type lvl 99+. You also have to have all clears for Dynamis, Salvage 1 & 2, Einherjar, Odin 1 & 2, Vagary, Delve, Nyzul Uncharted, Completed all Quests in the game, All Missions Completed, Killed Every NM in the game so you can have them checked off in this Key Item check list Book, and then have a Syngery Group craft the items with all 100 Skills in Smithing, Goldsmithing, Clothcraft, Alchemy, Leathercraft, and Woodworking

Don't give them any crazy ideas.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Oh no, It's going to require you to have the Relic, Mythic, and Emp of the same type

Wouldn't be an awful idea, well except the weapons needing to be 99, if it reduced the amount of time it took by say 25% each, if they're most likely going to make RME useless, least it'd give them a use other than Town Gear or /lockstyle

[Shinun]

Aeonic Weapons would be a good way to get the HMP Market going if HMP is part of its requirement

[BurnNotice]

Oh no, It's going to require you to have the Relic, Mythic, and Emp of the same type lvl 99+. You also have to have all clears for Dynamis, Salvage 1 & 2, Einherjar, Odin 1 & 2, Vagary, Delve, Nyzul Uncharted, Completed all Quests in the game, All Missions Completed, Killed Every NM in the game so you can have them checked off in this Key Item check list Book, and then have a Syngery Group craft the items with all 100 Skills in Smithing, Goldsmithing, Clothcraft, Alchemy, Leathercraft, and Woodworking

And that my friend will put me into retirement. lol.

[BurnNotice]

Aeonic Weapons would be a good way to get the HMP Market going if HMP is part of its requirement

It would but it will go back to what myself and others were saying about the drop rates. Granted, for the moment, most empys suck butt, but since the dev announced that they will make some adjustments to them, I hope this includes making the materials readily available.

Also, its more likely they will ask for people to gather dynamis currencies, Alexandrites, ZB items from Abyssea, and maybe Eschalixiers to upgrade it. I am willing to bet its easy to upgrade but probably more time consuming than any of the RMEEs

[Olor]

The best way to get more heavy metal plates on the market is to add an Adoulin Voidwatch. Make every monster drop pouches, and HP bayld and have cool ilevel gear and nice accessories drop at a low rate along with some bayld... Make it a bit easier than original voidwatch was when it came out so that groups of 6-12 can do it easier, and BAM. More plates.

Giving the relic upgrade materials out with points effectively killed most incentive to do old voidwatch in groups for the time being.

[Alhanelem]

Just what I needed, another relic-category weapon to further invalidate the ones I've already attained.

[Zeargi]

Just what I needed, another relic-category weapon to further invalidate the ones I've already attained.

There might be some hope for some of those. maybe... kind of... possibly...


Glad to see everyone so enthusiastic about Aeonic weapons! I'd like to share some more exciting news.

To coincide with the implementation of Aeonic weapons, we will also be doing something for Relic, Mythic, Empyrean and Ergon weapons. We’ve kept you all waiting for a bit, but we will once again be making these weapons that hold a special place in your heart have an active role in battles. We’ll be announcing more details via topics and the forum soon.

[BurnNotice]

Most of the players concern is that this that they are introducing another end-game weapon, Aeonic Weapons, and they can't even fix the issue with Relics and Mythics weapon skills, and Empys item availability and weapon skills. Imo, its a bad look.

[Zeargi]

Most of the players concern is that this that they are introducing another end-game weapon, Aeonic Weapons, and they can't even fix the issue with Relics and Mythics weapon skills, and Empys item availability and weapon skills. Imo, its a bad look.

I can see the major concern with the Emp. As the UNGODLY amounts of HMPs, and all others things following it can be a huge deterrent, but the other two might be a touch easier to update. Still, we can't say for certain if they won't finally get the stick out of their *** and do something for those that want the other Empyreans outside of the OChain and Harp. I'm trying to stay hopeful, at least a little.

[BurnNotice]

I can see the major concern with the Emp. As the UNGODLY amounts of HMPs, and all others things following it can be a huge deterrent, but the other two might be a touch easier to update. Still, we can't say for certain if they won't finally get the stick out of their *** and do something for those that want the other Empyreans outside of the OChain and Harp. I'm trying to stay hopeful, at least a little.

I hear you. I wish they can just grasp this issue by the horns and finally make something happen.

[Grekumah]

The dev. team has looked into increasing the number of methods to obtain these upgrade items, however, the stats on the completed weapons are very strong and they decided to put this on hold for the moment. With that said, we are aware that these items can be difficult to obtain so we’re looking into possibly offering them via login campaigns.

Edit Note: Mistakenly included VNMs (Voidwalker Notorious Monsters) as a means of obtaining these upgrade materials.

[Vanfrano]

The dev. team has looked into increasing the number of methods to obtain these upgrade items, however, because there are two methods to obtain them (from VNMs or Void Watch), and the stats on the completed weapons are very strong, they decided to put this on hold for the moment. With that said, we are aware that these items can be difficult to obtain so we’re looking into possibly offering them via login campaigns.

But unless the playerbase and myself are mistaken, Heavy Metal Plates/Pouches, Riftcinder and Riftdross do not drop from Voidwalker NMs, only from Voidwatch. The system might have been nice when people used to fight as an alliance but right now most people are soloing or low-maning and there is indeed a huge lack of these items on the market. For example I spammed Voidwatches during the campaign last month, I used 786 voidstones (all I had) and got 363 Heavy Metal Plates. Even if the players agree to buy their upgrade items, there are not enough items on the market at the moment unless everyone is willing to wait several months. And that is what we end up doing anyway.

[Phafi]

TIL VNMs can drop these upgrade items.

[Alhanelem]

TIL? whats that?


and the stats on the completed weapons are very strongThe completed relics and mythics are strong as well but they are comparatively easy to obtain. You can go to dynamis and salvage and get a quantity of alexandrite or dynamis currency every time you go, while you can spend the same amount of time doing voidwatch NMs and get nothing.

[Phafi]

today i learned

[dasva]

Yeah neither of those reasons are true.... try again SE

[Ulth]

How funny would it be if heavy metal plates were supposed to drop from voidwalker nms this whole time and the developers just didn't know it was never put in.

[Traxus]

The dev. team has looked into increasing the number of methods to obtain these upgrade items, however, because there are two methods to obtain them (from VNMs or Void Watch), and the stats on the completed weapons are very strong, they decided to put this on hold for the moment. With that said, we are aware that these items can be difficult to obtain so we’re looking into possibly offering them via login campaigns.

So VNMs are bugged and should be dropping heavy metal plates and riftdross/riftcinder? When can we expect this to be fixed?

[Enochroot]

It's probably something ridiculous like Yilbegan has the same chance of dropping an emp upgrade item as KB has of dropping d.ring. How many times have you killed Yilbegan?

[Traxus]

Probably like 50 times now farming abj gear mats. Lately I get black abyssite more than i get squamas/befouled silvers/etc.

[BurnNotice]

In response to Grekumah's comment, using the login points for those items sounds good in theory, but unfortunately that will not work at all. There's been discussions on the type of items available and duration of the login campaigns that wasn't pleasant. Also, it will just aggravate the situation more. The players don't mind putting in the work to build their weapons, but you have to keep in mind that it is a lot more work and time than it needs to be. Obtaining 1500 HMPs, and 60 Riftdross/Riftcinders with the current drop rate and availability prevents us from completing our weapons.

If you can pull the numbers, you will notice there are way too many players with empyrean weapons across all servers that have not passed lvl 90 since the day they've reached. We are talking these same people who've been looking forward to upgrade their weapons for years because of the availability of items and drop rate. This is a real issue that inhabiting players to from enjoying the full environment of the game and access of items to help with our adventures and achievements in Vana'diel. Please advise the development team for a solutions to help us come closer in achieving the players goals in completing our weapons. Thank you.

PS: It would be best to implement a solution before or with the RME upgrade that is coming soon.

[Gannon]

The dev. team has looked into increasing the number of methods to obtain these upgrade items, however, because there are two methods to obtain them (from VNMs or Void Watch), and the stats on the completed weapons are very strong, they decided to put this on hold for the moment. With that said, we are aware that these items can be difficult to obtain so we’re looking into possibly offering them via login campaigns.

Hey Grekumah, would you mind asking the devs which VNMs specifically drop Heavy Metal Plates, Riftdross, and Riftcinders?

[Dieth]

The dev. team has looked into increasing the number of methods to obtain these upgrade items, however, because there are two methods to obtain them (from VNMs or Void Watch), and the stats on the completed weapons are very strong, they decided to put this on hold for the moment. With that said, we are aware that these items can be difficult to obtain so we’re looking into possibly offering them via login campaigns.

Which VNMs drop HMPs/Riftdross/Riftcinder??
Original Voidwaker NMs - Drop upgrade items for many of the other Magian trial weapons, but none for the pure Empy path.
Abyssea VNMs drop Colorless souls are unsellable - also not the stage we're complaining about.

-

The issue with HMP/Riftcinder/Riftdross collection is the fact that you can't get 12-18 man Allies to have a POOL of people to buy from.
One x12 run on Qilin and I could buy ~50-100 plates with 18 people. One x12 run with my trusts and I'm lucky if I get 0.
One x12 run of Kaggen I could buy ~48 plates. One x12 run with my trusts and I'm lucky if I get 0.

You either seriously need to up the drop rate of HMP/Rift items or give use other means of obtainment. Because the current obtainment rate of 0 per run is fighting against infinity.

[Grekumah]

But unless the playerbase and myself are mistaken, Heavy Metal Plates/Pouches, Riftcinder and Riftdross do not drop from Voidwalker NMs, only from Voidwatch.

I apologize for the confusion my last post caused. You are correct; these upgrade items only come from Voidwatch, and including VNM was a mistake. I've edited my previous post (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/48253-Availability-of-HMPs-Riftcinders-Riftdross?p=568132&viewfull=1#post568132) to reflect this.

[bungiefanNA]

The stats on Empyrean weapons aren't all that strong compared to weapons you can actually get above level 90 in the current economy, like Relics and Mythics. Empyrean weapons are currently useless except the shield and the musical instrument. The people that pretty much want one now want it for the points on FFXIAH, or for the look.

[Alhanelem]

I apologize for the confusion my last post caused. You are correct; these upgrade items only come from Voidwatch, and including VNM was a mistake. I've edited my previous post (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/48253-Availability-of-HMPs-Riftcinders-Riftdross?p=568132&viewfull=1#post568132) to reflect this.

Thanks for the correction. I think though, someone needs to communicate to the devs that their logic in not improving the availability of ugprade items for Empy weapons is flawed. They keep talking about the "high stats" of these weapons, but they aren't remarkably different from the relics and mythics in terms of stats, and they are disporportionately more difficult to obtain. Why is the dev team okay with the reward/difficulty mismatch with the other special weapon sets?

[bungiefanNA]

Yeah, HMP only come from one source, and you get so few of them compared to any other currency, for something very underwhelming compared to the other weapons made with similar currency. You can get dozens of Relic currency from each Dynamis visit, reliably, possibly even hundreds once you know what you are doing. Time is your only expense on it too, since you can enter as many times as you want with a one-time purchase of a key item. Alexandrite also drops frequently in the event for Mythics, and the entry item now restocks very quickly, so it's easy to keep doing it. Voidwatch has a very limited nuymber of times you can do it and be able to get loot, because of how slowly voidstones build up, and the limited ways you can buy voiddust (Conquest points, Imperial Standing, and Allied Notes all take a long time to get in such quantities), and you are lucky if you get one plate after several fights (I have yet to ever see one), much less a pouch. The rate of the item dropping was balanced against the assumption that voidwatch fights would have 18 people fighting the NMs with individual loot pools, so you'd have 18 sets of drops. Now we solo them with NPCs that don't increase the number of items in the loot pool, so it takes 18 voidwatch fights, and 18 voidstones, to get the same number of drops. You've effectively reduced the HMP drop rate to 1/18th of what the content was designed for. Maybe you should reduce the number the NPC asks for by a similar amount. Even dropping it to 100 HMP would be 1/15th, and would match the current way the NMs are fought. Make it 99 and you have a clean stack, and that can be valued properly on the AH for what a weapon costs.

Also, as pointed out, you also have reduced drops because your party won't be able to cover as many of the potential weakness triggers on the NMs, and thus won't be able to build light before the monster dies or the time limit for the battle is reached, reducing the quantity and quality of the drops, removing heavy metal plates from the potential loot pool most of the time. That would make the drop rate less than 1/18th of what it used to be. Trusts simply aren't smart enough to respond to trigger hints and target them, and you can't resummon Trusts during a battle unless you wipe and risk the monster despawning.

In short, the math doesn't work out anymore, because the variables in the equation have changed, making the drops rarer than they were originally balanced for.

So the claim that there are still sufficient ways to optain the items is false, because the changes in incentives for doing the battles, and thus the way we end up doing the battles has altered the equation heavily against us. The reward for bringing anyone else to do the battles is almost nonexistant. Most items from the event have become worthless.

[dasva]

There is also the fact that since not a lot of people are doing it you often aren't getting anywhere near cap lights unless you sit there durdling forever fuming over and over again using lvl 1 weapons until you finally get procs. The VW campaign made it decently farmable by the small groups/soloist that still do this as you could just kill and even then it was a bit of a pain. Really should just bring the campaign back

[BurnNotice]

**Bump**
Looking for an update from the development team on a reasonable resolution to this. I would hate to see the updates for RMEs to happen without the ability to obtain these weapons in a fashionable and realistic manner like relics and mythics. Please advise.

[YosemiteYogorockBlondelle]

Match the drop rate of Iron plates/Iron metal plates to that of heavy metal plates?

I'm also curios as to whether you think iron metal plates will ever be implemented to be included up on the AH for selling? :cool: (Guys/Gals Thoughts~??)

[bungiefanNA]

I find it funny there is no refute or response for the math in my post showing that the effective drop rate of HMP is now 1/18th or less that of when Voidwatch was in vogue.

[Pups323]

You needed 30k alex, on an event you averaged 100 per run. = 300 runs to complete a mythic

For HMP, you need 1.5k, but you average 1/3 of plate per run per person.

Someone can solo salvage and still get 100 alex and thus still need 300 runs to complete.

HMP went from an 18 person event (5 per run) to a solo event (0.3) per run. So yo effectively went from 300 kills (comparable to alex) up to 5000 kills.

IF the drop rate for Voidwatch items increased as you decrease players so that at a solo level you got 5 hmp per kill, it wouldnt be an issue, but unlike alex, you are penalized, not rewarded for soloing it. They need to either increase the drop rate from 33% up to 100% chance of 5 or reduce the number needed from 1500 down to 500.

[Alhanelem]

They need to either increase the drop rate from 33% up to 100% chance of 5 or reduce the number needed from 1500 down to 500. To be fair, though, they would have to make it scale by players, otherwise an 18 man group would generate a weapon's worth of alex very quickly.

[Pups323]

Sorry i wasnt clear, i was saying they should increase the drop rate to the level of the old 18 man content, aka from 33% chance -> 100% chance of 5...when solo. So it would be the same drop rate as if a full alliance was there.

Obviouslly the easier mechanic is to just reduce the cost from 1500 -> 100~500

[Alhanelem]

Sorry i wasnt clear, i was saying they should increase the drop rate to the level of the old 18 man content, aka from 33% chance -> 100% chance of 5...when solo. So it would be the same drop rate as if a full alliance was there.

Obviouslly the easier mechanic is to just reduce the cost from 1500 -> 100~500
But then a full alliance would go and get 18x what a solo player would get, so essentially oyu're just saying drop 5x more of them. They will never do that, as they've basically established. We need to play a little give and take here if we want to get them to do anything. It just needs to be set up such that a solo player doesn't get drastically punished for being able to solo something that wasn't originally soloable.

Also, it sounds like you're talking about the NMs that drop singles, I would direct their attention to the NMs that drop bags. They're stronger NMs so they should drop more, but in actuality the drop rate on the bags is bad enough that it's not really worth it.

[BurnNotice]

For the NMs that drop singles, I suggest it drop at least up to three plates, with one being being a guaranteed drop, second being a possible up to 30% and the third up to 15% per kill. As for NMs that drop bags, riftcinders, and riftdross, those should drop in their own slot that is not shared with weapons and armor, and the drop rate increase to at least 45% chance.

Even if the drop rate is tied into using Phase Displacer, that fine. Use none, get a better drop rate.

[Pups323]

But then a full alliance would go and get 18x what a solo player would get, so essentially oyu're just saying drop 5x more of them. They will never do that, as they've basically established. We need to play a little give and take here if we want to get them to do anything. It just needs to be set up such that a solo player doesn't get drastically punished for being able to solo something that wasn't originally soloable.

Also, it sounds like you're talking about the NMs that drop singles, I would direct their attention to the NMs that drop bags. They're stronger NMs so they should drop more, but in actuality the drop rate on the bags is bad enough that it's not really worth it.

Again your missing the point of my post....

I was saying when solo it should be the same drop rate as when there are 18 people. And when there are 18, it should be normal (current) drop rate. So that you are not penalized for having fewer people. Alex you are rewarded for soloing it because you get the same # but dont have to share it. HMP you are penalized because you get 1/18th the drop rate.

Solo = 18x current drop rate
18 man = current drop rate

Also, for people saying its hard to cap lights...it isnt, not sure why people have an issue, with all of the key items, 1-2 blm triggers is enough to cap red. I did 18 hahava kills yesterday with 150 red light (cells), 400 red light (procs), and th1 (thx lion 2). I got some of the most beautiful logs with capped lights on 18/18 fights (i know it doesnt drop hmp, just an example of how easy it is to cap lights and still get crap).

[detlef]

So your proposal is to harshly penalize people from teaming up even with another person? I'm not sure I see why SE would ever go that route.

[Daisansha]

Again your missing the point of my post....

I was saying when solo it should be the same drop rate as when there are 18 people. And when there are 18, it should be normal (current) drop rate. So that you are not penalized for having fewer people. Alex you are rewarded for soloing it because you get the same # but dont have to share it. HMP you are penalized because you get 1/18th the drop rate.

Solo = 18x current drop rate
18 man = current drop rate


This is so wrong. You are not penalized, you do not get 1/18th the drop rate. You are only one person, whether killing the NM by yourself or in an alliance. Go kill the NM 18 times and you get the same drops whether you are solo or in an alliance of 18 people. You do not get the drops from the other 17 people in an alliance, they do not belong to you. There is no reason whatsoever for SE to improve the drop rate just because you want to solo the fight or are unable to get others to fight with you. All of the VW fights are pretty easy to solo, you just need to go do it.

[BurnNotice]

It's an idea thrown out there that can be modified. Anything would be better than whats happening now. I believe as paying subscribers, we shouldn't be penalize for obtaining upgrade materials.

[bungiefanNA]

This is so wrong. You are not penalized, you do not get 1/18th the drop rate. You are only one person, whether killing the NM by yourself or in an alliance. Go kill the NM 18 times and you get the same drops whether you are solo or in an alliance of 18 people. You do not get the drops from the other 17 people in an alliance, they do not belong to you. There is no reason whatsoever for SE to improve the drop rate just because you want to solo the fight or are unable to get others to fight with you. All of the VW fights are pretty easy to solo, you just need to go do it.

Except that server populations are lower, and most people don't bother with Voidwatch anymore, so you have fewer plates entering the economy. Increasing drop rates would give more incentive for people to do the content. With the only option being to solo it, and with the limit on voidstones, it's hard to get people interested in grinding the content again. HMPs, Riftcinder, and Riftdross are about the only items of worth still in the content, and the amount of time it takes to get them, compared to currency for upgrading Relic and Mythic weapons, plus how the stats on the weapons compare to mythics and relics, make it not worth the time to keep grinding the content. You pretty much have no choice but to solo the fights with Trusts if you want the clears, or want to try to farm HMPs and such to put into the economy or to build your own weapon.

[Pups323]

Except when you solo Voidwatch, you get 1/18 the total drops the mob had.

When you solo salvage, 100 alex drops, and can be shared 18 ways or go to 1 person.

When you do voidwatch it was intended that there be 18 pools of loot at the end, so by soloing it you have gone from 18 pools of loot down to 1 pool of loot, and while the drop rate per person is the same, the drop rate for the monster is effective 1/18th what it was in regards to the number of potential heavy metal plates entering the game. The fact you get 18 pools of loot in voidwatch is the single biggest reason they dont want to increase the drop rate.

And how does it penalize 18 people by having the drop rate scale from 1 to 18. Its not like 18 people are going out to do voidwatch at the moment, i can pick any mob that drops HMP and find an open camp and run kills for hours with no issues. Chances are, if someone tags along they are just going to be selling the HMP to me anyways. SO in the end the same total number of HMP would enter the world.

[Creelo]

I think if they just added Riftcinder/dross and Heavy Metal Plates to the Goblin in Reisenjima that would be a huge benefit.

They could easily do like 3000 merits for a Riftcinder or Riftdross and like 500 merits for a Heavy Metal Plate, and even that would be a HUGE benefit to increasing supply of these items. They really need to expand on what items the Reisenjima Goblin exchanges in general; the Voidwatch selection is basically limited to grinding endlessly for a glow body/weapon.

[Pups323]

500 merits per 1 hmp? While that is inline with the other stuff (delve beads) the goblins sell, i can get 1 hmp faster than i can get 500 merits, just saying.

[Creelo]

500 merits per 1 hmp? While that is inline with the other stuff (delve beads) the goblins sell, i can get 1 hmp faster than i can get 500 merits, just saying.

This is FFXI we are talking about, and I gave those numbers precisely as you said, to be in line with the other items offered. Personally, I would rather have 100-250 merits for a HMP, but those goblins are quite greedy. I think this is the point though of the goblins; to provide an alternative path for certain items that can be obtained through getting merits that can be obtained while doing other, more relevant content. If you do the event itself directly though, you'd likely obtain the item or w/e it is faster than building the merits for it.

The point is there is an easy way to add an alternative way to obtain REM upgrade items that isn't nearly as convoluted as trying to adjust the drop rate based upon how many players are participating in a VW fight. A greatly increased drop rate for Riftcinder/Dross/HMP for solo players would just divide the playerbase up, possibly crash the market completely, and/or create a highly competitive atmosphere over who could pop VWNMs first due to the huge incentive for fighting them solo.

We need to be realistic here if the dev team is ever going to take our suggestions seriously.

Other suggestions for increasing supply of Cinder/Dross/HMP would be to add them to VNMs, since those have to be done to farm relevant crafting materials for some of the most valuable hexed armor in the game. Adding REM upgrades to these NMs would help incentive players to kill these NMs more, which would also help out crafters/players who want the hexed armor materials. Or they could also just increase the drop rate for these upgrade items, especially Riftcinder/dross. Having only a 1-4% drop rate for these items with capped red light is absolutely ridiculous.

[BurnNotice]

The Dev Team can go as far as to even add them to abyssea to relevant NMs that are tied into creating weapons. This was actually suggested a long time ago when VWs were introduced. Folks were confused to why add it to only VWs but not in Abyssea since the two do have connections.

[Pups323]

I finished the 1500hmp stage in February 2015, it took me a few years, but I wasn't buying plates and only did weekly VW with my LS Static VW group, and the occasional PUG.

I don't agree with the required total being reduced from 1500 to 100 or 500, it would not be fair on people who finished 1500 plates under the old system. Especially those who did it pre 119 gear, pre trusts, pre special events etc.

The same goes for cinders and dross, I don't think the number required should be changed.

However I do think HMP/cinders/dross need fixing, either as drops from HMBC, or drops from other events. Or for the VW loot system to have a base minimum 1 hmp per kill, scaling up to to 5 minimum if you have lights. HMP bags, and cinders/dross need to have their drop rates increased too.

So I think it would be good for the drop rates to be increased, minimums applied, and for the items to drop from other events, but I don't agree with changing the total numbers required.

That's like saying you dont agree with salvage being solo because its not fair to people who got their mythics back when you needed 18 people and had no ilevel gear and had to split the alex 18 ways....your logic is faulty. Just because it was stupid back then doesn't mean it has to stay stupid now for the sake of not offending people who did it in the past.

There is 0 difference in increasing the drop rate x18 or cutting the required number by 1/18. It is all effectively the same thing. If you want to be technical alex was 50k, then was dropped to 30k, was that fair to people who had done it before?

Then the drop rate increased x18 when they added salvage 2 and made it soloable, because now you no longer needed 18 people and didnt have to share the loot.

Then it increased x24 when they made it so you could do it 1x per hour.

So they have increased the drop rate, decreased the max required, and surprisingly, everyone was happy.

[Stompa]

That's like saying you dont agree with salvage being solo because its not fair to people who got their mythics back when you needed 18 people and had no ilevel gear and had to split the alex 18 ways....your logic is faulty. Just because it was stupid back then doesn't mean it has to stay stupid now for the sake of not offending people who did it in the past.

There is 0 difference in increasing the drop rate x18 or cutting the required number by 1/18. It is all effectively the same thing. If you want to be technical alex was 50k, then was dropped to 30k, was that fair to people who had done it before?

Then the drop rate increased x18 when they added salvage 2 and made it soloable, because now you no longer needed 18 people and didnt have to share the loot.

Then it increased x24 when they made it so you could do it 1x per hour.

So they have increased the drop rate, decreased the max required, and surprisingly, everyone was happy.


No, I don't think my logic is faulty. It isn't really about 18 man or 1 man. It is about the VW random loot-swoop which is broken and has always been broken.

In my post above I offered a fair solution, 1xhmp per kill minimum, 5xhmp per kill minimum with lights. And increased rate of bags, cinders, dross. This is a fair solution, it would still make your empy way easier than my empy, but I'm happy for you that case. Because you could farm VW and get a steady rate of plates and get 1500/1500 in a fixed timeframe. I was farming 50x Qilin capped lights and getting zero plates. With my suggestion above, 50 capped lights kills would get you minimum 50x5 hmp, plus increased chances of bags. In the same number of kills that I got 0 hmp in.

So my logic is fine thanks. What isn't logical is your idea that a person should go to the AH and buy 100 hmp, which takes ten seconds and very small gil, to complete the hmp stage that other people had to go and farm 1500hmp for. That is bad logic.

I am suggesting an improved farming system, so you can put the effort into farming VW and get decent rewards, and complete 1500 in a realistic timeframe. This is more fair than just saying buy 100hmp from the AH to complete that stage.

[Pups323]

Actually your logic is wrong:

1) Your preferred solution doesn't mean its 'fair'. Mathematically, there is 0 difference between reducing the number needed by 1/18, and increasing the drop rate x18. Overall it will take exactly the same amount of time to complete. So by you preferring one method over the other is faulty logic, when there has been presidence in the past to show that SE is willing and able to do one, the other, or both.

2)Just because you killed 50 mobs with max lights and got 0 HMP doesnt mean its a 0% drop rate. You expect 3/50 fights to drop a pouch. But just because you didnt get 3 pouches in 50 fights doesnt mean its 0%. You could do 50 more and end up with 5 pouches and still be in the realm of acceptable statistics. And if each pouch contains 3~15 HMP, that means on average, every 50 kills your getting ~9 per pouch and about 27 plates per 50 kills.

3) If the increase the drop rate, to 18x its current level, you would be averaging 500 HMP per 50 kills. And would need roughly 150 kills to finish.

4) If they keep the same drop rate, but decrease the number need by ~1/18 to 100, you would need the same 150 kills to finish.

You dont think by increasing the drop rate x18 you wouldnt flood the market to the point where 1500 HMP would cost considerably less? And could be bought in seconds for little gil ?

Did you even think it through or do you just post first?

[detlef]

There is 0 difference in increasing the drop rate x18 or cutting the required number by 1/18. It is all effectively the same thing.Your solution to scale drops as far as giving a soloer 18x the drop rate would never be acceptable. Should I team up with 1 other player? No, that halves my drop rate I'll just solo it. Guess we'll all just spam the rift to pop because everybody wants to solo. A more reasonable solution might be to scale down drops to 3-5x but not scale down any further than a PT size.


If you want to be technical alex was 50k, then was dropped to 30k, was that fair to people who had done it before?The people who actually finished 50k were duping and a ton of people got banned.


Then the drop rate increased x18 when they added salvage 2 and made it soloable, because now you no longer needed 18 people and didnt have to share the loot.

Then it increased x24 when they made it so you could do it 1x per hour.

So they have increased the drop rate, decreased the max required, and surprisingly, everyone was happy.Being able to do Salvage every hour doesn't increase the drop rate by 24x. And being able to solo Salvage meant not sharing drops whereas VW gave you a personal loot pool regardless of group size. So while both the Salvage improvement and your proposal add more currency into the system they do so in vastly different ways and aren't really equivalent.

Also, the demand for HMP is hardly what it was so there's no need for Devs to target a production level equivalent to when VW was in its heyday. I'm all for making it easier but you're going a bit too far and also significantly discouraging group play for the most groupiest of group play events in the game.

[Pups323]

People love to argue for grouping for content, which is great, if people still do that content, but voidwatch is 99999999.9999999999% people soloing or them being solo but bring a second account with them. I havent seen a full group of 6 do voidwatch since they allowed you to do them with trusts.

During the voidwatch event, i was trying to clear them all for the key items and people still wouldnt invite me to their party of them +5 trusts, even though i would take 0 of their loot.

[detlef]

Yeah at the current drop rate it's not really worth doing. You're swinging toward the other extreme where it's too lucrative especially for soloists.

[YosemiteYogorockBlondelle]

Well happy new year's eve and happy new year's to all!!

Now what would say about the drop rate for Pil's Tuille smithing Relics upgrade material? Would you say the drop rate for this upgrade material is way lower and way worse then the HMP's, riftdross's, RiftCinders, etc. ?? :p :D :cool:

[BurnNotice]

Well happy new year's eve and happy new year's to all!!

Now what would say about the drop rate for Pil's Tuille smithing Relics upgrade material? Would you say the drop rate for this upgrade material is way lower and way worse then the HMP's, riftdross's, RiftCinders, etc. ?? :p :D :cool:

Happy New Year 2016 to you and to everyone reading this post!

To answer your question, I believe the drop rate is no different from the drop of single HMPs. I can get about 4 Pil's Tuille in about 10 kills. As for HMPs, maybe 2 out of every 15 kills. Using Bismark as an example, I get up to 2 every 30 kills for riftdross or riftcinders.

In 2016, I am hoping the development team will ease up on the drop rate. The 1500 HMP and 60 Riftcinder/Riftdross system is fine imo, but like Stompa mention in an earlier post, there should be some kind of minimum drop ratio per kill for HMPs. As riftdross/riftcinders, the only realistic solution for that is to increase the drop where you are getting one, the other, or a weapon/armor every fight to keep it a bit balanced. This is based on having capped lights.

[Creelo]

Happy New Year 2016 to you and to everyone reading this post!

To answer your question, I believe the drop rate is no different from the drop of single HMPs. I can get about 4 Pil's Tuille in about 10 kills. As for HMPs, maybe 2 out of every 15 kills. Using Bismark as an example, I get up to 2 every 30 kills for riftdross or riftcinders.

In 2016, I am hoping the development team will ease up on the drop rate. The 1500 HMP and 60 Riftcinder/Riftdross system is fine imo, but like Stompa mention in an earlier post, there should be some kind of minimum drop ratio per kill for HMPs. As riftdross/riftcinders, the only realistic solution for that is to increase the drop where you are getting one, the other, or a weapon/armor every fight to keep it a bit balanced. This is based on having capped lights.

4/10 for Pil's Tuille is extremely lucky. The playerbase has generated a pretty accurate database for VW drops. Here's Pil's: http://ffxidb.com/voidwatch/127

Basically HMP is about 34% and Pil's Tuille is exactly 5%.

[BurnNotice]

4/10 for Pil's Tuille is extremely lucky. The playerbase has generated a pretty accurate database for VW drops. Here's Pil's: http://ffxidb.com/voidwatch/127

Basically HMP is about 34% and Pil's Tuille is exactly 5%.

Thank you. I see that my during that day my luck was high. I just can't seem to have that with HMPs, Riftdross/Riftcinders though. Oddly enough, I was happy to have those 4 Pil's Tuille because it allowed and motivate me to upgrade a couple of relic pieces as well as put a little gil in my pocket. :)

[Alhanelem]

This is so wrong. You are not penalized, you do not get 1/18th the drop rate. You are only one person, whether killing the NM by yourself or in an alliance. Go kill the NM 18 times and you get the same drops whether you are solo or in an alliance of 18 people. You do not get the drops from the other 17 people in an alliance, they do not belong to you. There is no reason whatsoever for SE to improve the drop rate just because you want to solo the fight or are unable to get others to fight with you. All of the VW fights are pretty easy to solo, you just need to go do it.
While what you say is true, as a solo player you have to kill the NM 18 times, whereas 18 people can kill it once together for the same result. Having said that, the number of voidstones expended per drop is the same regardless of the setup. And that seems to be how they wanted it to be. X voidstones consumed = Y desired drops.

[Pups323]

While what you say is true, as a solo player you have to kill the NM 18 times, whereas 18 people can kill it once together for the same result. Having said that, the number of voidstones expended per drop is the same regardless of the setup. And that seems to be how they wanted it to be. X voidstones consumed = Y desired drops.

While true, salvage required each person to have a key item to enter, and when the event went from 18->1, that 1 person DOES get 18x the loot because when they do that event 18 times now, it yields are x18.

Voidwatch was designed around 18 man content, and yes each person uses a key item to enter and the loot was original tuned for x drops per stone spent, the original idea of voidwatch was to have 18 people so that you would get 3~5 HMP per kill per alliance. Thats why they are tradeable.

IF SE is afraid to increase the drop rate to something more realistic, perhaps just make them EX and then you can make the drop rate w/e you want because it wont hurt the economy.

TLDR: You may not get 1/18th the drop rate, but the number of HMP entering the world per nm is 1/18th, which isnt the same as salvage.

[Olor]

I think they should just add single plates to every single NM... and add bags to NMs that have only singles... and add bags to NMs that drop dross etc. That should help somewhat and it will give further incentive to people to join parties to get upgrade items. At this point in the game's life upgrading empys is needlessly difficult. The effort to reward ratio is currently still too low for folks to bother with, even if they have stones to burn. I could solo voidwatch for plates etc to sell but I'd make more money faster by just doing dynamis... and unlike voidwatch, I am guaranteed to make some money... voidwatch I could spend 2 hours and end up with nothing.

That applies to parties too... can't count how many times I did one of the NMs that drops only dross etc and got nothing by vendor junk for my trouble. That's part of the reason people don't want to join parties for voidwatch, because even in a party it's an inefficient way of making gil and it's a lot of fuss and bother besides.

I'd still LOVE for there to be an Adoulin chapter of voidwatch that allows folks to upgrade their old pulse weapons and armor but I know it's never going to happen. But that would actually get people doing voidwatch. We can see now that the primary reason people were doing the event was the gear, money was secondary and upgrading was only a few select people. Now that the gear is garbage, people have no interest.

[YosemiteYogorockBlondelle]

Happy New Year 2016 to you and to everyone reading this post!

To answer your question, I believe the drop rate is no different from the drop of single HMPs. I can get about 4 Pil's Tuille in about 10 kills. As for HMPs, maybe 2 out of every 15 kills. Using Bismark as an example, I get up to 2 every 30 kills for riftdross or riftcinders.

In 2016, I am hoping the development team will ease up on the drop rate. The 1500 HMP and 60 Riftcinder/Riftdross system is fine imo, but like Stompa mention in an earlier post, there should be some kind of minimum drop ratio per kill for HMPs. As riftdross/riftcinders, the only realistic solution for that is to increase the drop where you are getting one, the other, or a weapon/armor every fight to keep it a bit balanced. This is based on having capped lights.

and.....


4/10 for Pil's Tuille is extremely lucky. The playerbase has generated a pretty accurate database for VW drops. Here's Pil's: http://ffxidb.com/voidwatch/127

Basically HMP is about 34% and Pil's Tuille is exactly 5%.

Thanks for the response and I figured that it might be something like this to the drop rate over the hmp's I was getting but didn't need the plates over attempting to get at least 2 Pils Tuiles to drop when I was going solo with trusts before getting lucky in having two ls mates to join in on Pil later on even if for a temporary moment while attempting to farm a couple of Pil's Tuille smithing materials which to date has yet to still not get any drops thus far. An Idea I had was either give my own ls mates that needed the plates to them or sell them on the AH since they are now Auction House'able and use the gil from the hmp's sold on the ah to purchase any possible Pil's Tuille's that might have become available to AH-Purchase which in reality it would be like a trade off from one to the other minus the gil's used in doing the trades factor!


Thank you. I see that my during that day my luck was high. I just can't seem to have that with HMPs, Riftdross/Riftcinders though. Oddly enough, I was happy to have those 4 Pil's Tuille because it allowed and motivate me to upgrade a couple of relic pieces as well as put a little gil in my pocket. :) Yeah gil's from Pil's Tuille off the ah on leviathan server would be nice at the going cost rate they are selling for on the AH too!!

[Stuzey]

I agree that HMP, Riftcinders and Riftdross drop rates should be looked, but I find the comparison to Salvage very confusing. the mechanics involved in a successful run (Cell distributions as quickly as possible), meant that you generally entered with 6-9 people and alex sold for 3-4k each on my server (linen purses had a low drop rate as well). Salvage 2 increased the amount of Alex that could be farmed, but again wasn't an 18 man event, you could go in with three and you only needed three for a successful run.

I don't want to be picky, as I totally agree with you about voidwatch drop rates being updated, I just don't think it should be compared with salvage as they are very different events

[Grekumah]

Voidwatch drops are placed into individual loot pools, and drops increase greatly with more participants.

Increasing the drop rates at this time will upset the balance between supply and demand, and it is possible this will result in balance issues.

As far as all Relic/Mythic/Empyrean/Ergon weapons go, we’ve reduced the hurdles for participation, but we have not increased the amount of progress gained per encounter. This is dependent on the policy related to these weapons.

On a side note, we have increased the chances of obtaining these items through key items and campaigns.

[Afin]

Voidwatch drops are placed into individual loot pools, and drops increase greatly with more participants.


The main issue you don't seem to be taking into consideration is the fact, not everyone will devote their time to doing voidwatch, lack of server population + the randomness of trust makes it a very tough challenge more than it was originally. People would be more interested in VW probably if they had more people that are doing more things rather than being afk. Japanese prime time you see 1.2k+ on bahamut active. When it gets to EU/NA times, 400-600 and thats on one of the most populated servers. I've heard a lot less on others. My point is the current population per server does not help the magnitued of what needs to be done through a team effort =/

[Gannon]

will upset the balance between supply and demand

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! You say that like there is a balance between supply and demand with the system is in it's current state.

[Ataraxia]

Voidwatch drops are placed into individual loot pools, and drops increase greatly with more participants.

Increasing the drop rates at this time will upset the balance between supply and demand, and it is possible this will result in balance issues.

As far as all Relic/Mythic/Empyrean/Ergon weapons go, we’ve reduced the hurdles for participation, but we have not increased the amount of progress gained per encounter. This is dependent on the policy related to these weapons.

On a side note, we have increased the chances of obtaining these items through key items and campaigns.



Off topic but can you let Akihiko Matsui know that we need campaigns back again like double capacity and others. Right now people aren't as active anymore because double trust campaigns is gone. People no longer wants to team up and EXP when campaign is gone. I just realize how difficult it was to clear avatar fight without it and it was a tough solo. I hope miso ramen food cap are raise and it be great if this food actually affect pet like BST and PUP.

[Alhanelem]

Voidwatch drops are placed into individual loot pools, and drops increase greatly with more participants.The fact is, they don't increase with the number of participants. If 12 people each do an NM, vs all 12 ppl doing the same NM (same number of voidstones expended) they will get around the same number of drops.



As far as all Relic/Mythic/Empyrean/Ergon weapons go, we’ve reduced the hurdles for participation, but we have not increased the amount of progress gained per encounter. This is dependent on the policy related to these weapons.What we don't seem to be getting through to the dev team is that these weapon groups are not all of similar difficulty, despite all intending to be powerful (in their own ways in each case). The weapons which require the voidwatch drops require disporportionately more time/effort vs the other high tier weapons. Should players not be able to choose the super weapon type that suits them, and spend a roughly similar amount of effort/time regardless?

[Zeargi]

If you're not going to increase the drop rate, then you need to decrease the required # of each. On Sylph there's a total of 32 HMPs up for sell... that would be 32/1500... That's completely ridiculous on the proportions of things needed. As for Riftdross, there's an amazing 0. That's right, Not a single one. That's a whopping 3060 of which won't/can't be turned in.

[Afin]

Increasing the drop rates at this time will upset the balance between supply and demand, and it is possible this will result in balance issues.

Let's face it too, you've already pointed out that dd won't be getting any acc bonus to help in new battle content, so i just can't understand balance issues, when most mages can already magic burst for 99999, i mean the dd's on big mobs are lucky to hit 3-5k. Mages aren't going to get that much of a new bonus to their already super duper powers. But also you say about supply balance. This is all good, again if the servers were more populated, on some servers, 3 riftdross, or 10 hmp, its just too far fetched for the requirements. Most likely 1% of the server will even attempt an emp from scratch, because its just too time consuming, for a game that's nearing the end of its life storyline wise. Make the game suited for the declining population, not suited to when players are most active (being japanese times) we can't all be on at the same time. 3-400 people half of which are probably afk in jeuno, are not going to upset the balance of avaiability. What is upsetting the balance, is lack of supply

[Mithlas]

Voidwatch drops are placed into individual loot pools, and drops increase greatly with more participants.

Increasing the drop rates at this time will upset the balance between supply and demand, and it is possible this will result in balance issues.

As far as all Relic/Mythic/Empyrean/Ergon weapons go, we’ve reduced the hurdles for participation, but we have not increased the amount of progress gained per encounter. This is dependent on the policy related to these weapons.

On a side note, we have increased the chances of obtaining these items through key items and campaigns.

Supply and demand? I've noticed there is practically no supply coming from the playerbase. If anything, I believe the increase in drops would help the limited playerbase at this time.

[Pups323]

As far as all Relic/Mythic/Empyrean/Ergon weapons go, we’ve reduced the hurdles for participation, but we have not increased the amount of progress gained per encounter. This is dependent on the policy related to these weapons.

On a side note, we have increased the chances of obtaining these items through key items and campaigns.

Like the contradiction in your own post:

We haven't increased the drop rate, but we increased the chance it will drop via key items.... let that sink in...

I know they are just repeating what they tell the JP people 12 hours later but i feel like there is a complete disconnect. The number of drops dont increase greatly as you add more people. Going from 33% chance of 1, to 3 drops per kill is 'a slight increase'. Why not just make it so if you have 18 people the drop rate DOES increase to say 1 per person? That would sure motivate people to get 18 people there, vs the current situation of maybe 1-2 going.

[dasva]

The only way you are going to get a group of people farming empy mats at voidwatch is either to pay them a ton or if they are trying to make empys themselves. This whole more droprate thing doesn't fly

[Vanfrano]

On a side note, we have increased the chances of obtaining these items through key items and campaigns.

I'm sorry but that does not change a thing. We probably all have the key items by now and we all cap lights during Voidwatches, in fact what we all complain about takes into account fights with key items and capped lights.
The only difference now is that people will probably wait to use their voidstones during campaigns only to avoid bothering with the proc system, especially when solo/low man.
This doesn't increase supply in any way, people who wanted to work on empy already did before Voidwatch campaign, the same goes for people who wanted to sell their HMPs. And we can't really say that Voidwatch has an interesting gil/hr ratio if you're only looking to sell plates.

[detlef]

Supply and demand? I've noticed there is practically no supply coming from the playerbase. If anything, I believe the increase in drops would help the limited playerbase at this time.What about the other side of that equation? What is the demand for these drops considering how weak the weapons are?

[BurnNotice]

Voidwatch drops are placed into individual loot pools, and drops increase greatly with more participants.

Increasing the drop rates at this time will upset the balance between supply and demand, and it is possible this will result in balance issues.

As far as all Relic/Mythic/Empyrean/Ergon weapons go, we’ve reduced the hurdles for participation, but we have not increased the amount of progress gained per encounter. This is dependent on the policy related to these weapons.

On a side note, we have increased the chances of obtaining these items through key items and campaigns.

That's the problem. There isn't a supply available, demand is high, and there is an extreme balance issue with this. There is currently no incentive to get people more involved with VWs. Even if an alliance of 18 happen to get together, its been historically shown that the drop rates was unsatisfactory to the point that people have given up doing VWs and purchasing other folks items if they were readily available. Even today, you have folks who have been working on their empy for the past 2 years or more. THIS SHOULD NOT BE HAPPENING. It's unacceptable and unnecessary time sink into that project. Some may say "Hey, well if you can't be patient and work on it, do something else", but that's not a solution and as a paying subscriber who is also investing time in a project like acquiring an empy, its should be obtain in a reasonable time frame. Especially if the goal for players is to make multiple weapons across their favorite jobs. Build an empy, like a relic and mythic, should be a rewarding experience, not something to be discouraged and out of reach for players due to availability and the low drop rate.

[BurnNotice]

Voidwatch drops are placed into individual loot pools, and drops increase greatly with more participants.

Increasing the drop rates at this time will upset the balance between supply and demand, and it is possible this will result in balance issues.

As far as all Relic/Mythic/Empyrean/Ergon weapons go, we’ve reduced the hurdles for participation, but we have not increased the amount of progress gained per encounter. This is dependent on the policy related to these weapons.

On a side note, we have increased the chances of obtaining these items through key items and campaigns.

Also, if we have to compromise and agree on something, it should be on the HMPs at least. The availability and access to them has to change.

[Mithlas]

What KI affects VW drops?

[Jile]

Voidwatch drops are placed into individual loot pools, and drops increase greatly with more participants.

The days of dozens of shouts and large groups constantly popping voidwatch are over. Like prehistoric over. Leaving the antiquated logic that requires large groups to get decent drops on this content is cruel and unnecessary to xi's dwindling loyal remaining playerbase that is hoping to get the last of their game goals completed.

Clearly, the majority of your playerbase feel this needs revisited. Additionally, these should be available for sale from npc's for cruor/accolades/sparks/allied notes/conquest points/imperial standing, etc.

[Zeargi]

What KI affects VW drops?

The Rhapsody in Mauve...

It allows for rapid use of /fume, but even that sucks, because if you aren't on a job that can pull hate, then the KI is useless.

[Mithlas]

The Rhapsody in Mauve...

It allows for rapid use of /fume, but even that sucks, because if you aren't on a job that can pull hate, then the KI is useless.

Ah, I thought he was referring to a KI that had a direct effect on drop rate of the items.
Even with that and the campaigns that max lights, the drop rate for the mentioned items are horrendous.

[dasva]

The Rhapsody in Mauve...

It allows for rapid use of /fume, but even that sucks, because if you aren't on a job that can pull hate, then the KI is useless.

Yeah basically useless for any job that uses pets or wants to let trusts tank

[Alhanelem]

The Rhapsody in Mauve...

It allows for rapid use of /fume, but even that sucks, because if you aren't on a job that can pull hate, then the KI is useless.
None of the NMs that drop HMPs can be soloed at i119?

[Zeargi]

None of the NMs that drop HMPs can be soloed at i119?

Depends, If you're at a spot like I am and can't purchase the Doom or Death Screens, then lots of the ones that do can out right kill you if you're alone, Pil comes to mind. Or if your ilvl job is SMN, then no... You're not going to 'solo' them and get anything worthwhile. My statement still stands correct, The KI is useless. BLMs can Manawall or Enmity Douse, and have the most procs for it, so they're free to pull hate after figuring out which procs they've already done and switch them, letting a trust take back over tanking. That's not the case for every job. I could most likely Clear the fight in a few minutes give or take. I'm not going to raise the lights unless I'm lucky enough to have the staff, or Avatar Procs show up. And if my pet has hate, I can't /fume. I could dismiss, /fume, and resummon, but with things that have have AoE Silence, Stun, Break, etc... It's not the best setup. But then that also going into things like BST, where 'leaving' a pet isn't cost effective and with the long timers for Call Beast and Bestial Loyalty, not a good call.

[Alhanelem]

I was under the impression that the lights only impacted the drop slots for gear and the HMPs were seperate from that. But then again, I haven't even beaten every NM yet, so I really have no idea. -.-

[dasva]

Oh no lights effect everything. It was very noticeable when I forgot the campaign had ended and went from getting 4 drops every time to 1

[BurnNotice]

Even with campaign active, there is still a problem. The campaign is for a limited time. :(

[Vae]

Square doesn't understand simple math.

If one voidstone (1player) equals 1 heavy metal. Then 18 players (18 voidstones) equal 18 heavy metals. It doesn't improve anything. You can't suddenly get 2 heavy metals by using 18 people. YOUR drop rate is always constant.

[Daisansha]

Square doesn't understand simple math.

If one voidstone (1player) equals 1 heavy metal. Then 18 players (18 voidstones) equal 18 heavy metals. It doesn't improve anything. You can't suddenly get 2 heavy metals by using 18 people. YOUR drop rate is always constant.

They understand it quite well. What the playerbase here doesn't understand is that other people's loot pools does not equal your loot pools. Just because other people get a heavy metal plate does not mean they are going to sell it to you either. Just because there are less people doing VW doesn't suddenly mean that SE has to increase the drop rate. What they did do is make it so VW is incredibly easy and anyone can spam it. If you are running out of stones to pop VW, there are methods to obtain more without just waiting a day to pass. A person might not like those methods, but that's that person's personal problem. I have no sympathy whatsoever for people who just want to buy everything off the market instead of go out and obtain things themselves. You do not own other players, they do not work for you, go do stuff for yourself. Other players putting HMP and Riftcinders on the market for you to buy was just a convenience for you, it was not something that was required on SE's nor other player's part to make sure happens. HMP and Riftcinders are obtainable solo, quite easily. Just go out and do it. Otherwise, put out the word that you are looking to buy HMPs/Riftcinders and put a price tag that will motivate other people to go get them for you.

[Vae]

Just because there are less people doing VW doesn't suddenly mean that SE has to increase the drop rate.

That's LITERALLY exactly what it means.

When people stop doing it, there is a reason, and then square fixes the reason. Eventually.

[Zeargi]

They understand it quite well. What the playerbase here doesn't understand is that other people's loot pools does not equal your loot pools. Just because other people get a heavy metal plate does not mean they are going to sell it to you either. Just because there are less people doing VW doesn't suddenly mean that SE has to increase the drop rate. What they did do is make it so VW is incredibly easy and anyone can spam it. If you are running out of stones to pop VW, there are methods to obtain more without just waiting a day to pass. A person might not like those methods, but that's that person's personal problem. I have no sympathy whatsoever for people who just want to buy everything off the market instead of go out and obtain things themselves. You do not own other players, they do not work for you, go do stuff for yourself. Other players putting HMP and Riftcinders on the market for you to buy was just a convenience for you, it was not something that was required on SE's nor other player's part to make sure happens. HMP and Riftcinders are obtainable solo, quite easily. Just go out and do it. Otherwise, put out the word that you are looking to buy HMPs/Riftcinders and put a price tag that will motivate other people to go get them for you.

Except that there's a major problem with your sentiment, and it's not 100% accurate. When you look at all the other weapon types compared to the Empyrean, you see a vast difference between them.


A Relic: the easiest to obtain out of all the weapon types. It requires of 10,000 piece to complete, but with the proper knowledge and focusing on one zone, you can leave with 200+ ancient current.

A Mythic: hard to medium. The hardest segments of the mythic quest line are the assaults and the initial completion of Nyzul Isle. The 30,000 price tag is easy to obtain with a good understanding of each zone

An Empyrean: Easy to Extreme. The quest line starts in Abyssea. this is the easiest portion of the quest line, in Abyssea you have a clear and present knowledge of what is to come. The colorless souls have become much easier to obtain now with the certain key item from Rhapsody of Vana'deal. But after leaving Abyssea, you know longer have a queue on which weaknesses which will come up. You no longer have a time to know whether it is blunt, piercing, or slashing. You no longer have an indication of which elemental weakness will show up. You just know that there are weaknesses. At this point the playing field is no longer level. This content was made with 18 people in mind, and retains a whole aspect which is basically sealed nowadays. The Rhapsody of Mauve is useless for almost every job except for ones that have high damage dealing yields, and exclude all pet jobs with the exception of Dragoon. It takes 1500 heavy metal plates to complete the level 90 task, and that's still at the lower end of the spectrum. Fortunately, the weapons can bypass the level 99-2 and go directly to level 119. Sadly, this is not the case for the shield or the harp, and still requires the 3060 items to push it to its highest level. With dynamis and salvage, you are guaranteed to get what you focus on, but in void watch, you are not guaranteed any drops whatsoever that will help you. So, even though the numbers are less than what it takes to make a mythic or a relic these numbers are still drastically impossible to get because you can't find the items that you need.

This is a subject that should be looked into because there are so few people doing void watch, and they are doing a current campaign to max out lights to start off with… Which means they see a problem by assisting the players, but they refused to actually do anything than apply a Band-Aid.

[BurnNotice]

The people that are able to purchase the items on AH are from the people that have given up on further enhancing their weapons due to the low drop rate on items, and excessive time spent farming these items. I've seen more folks create two or three mythics and relics faster than they can gather 1500 HMPs. As of January 12, it took my ls mate over 2 years to collect HMPs and finally finished his empy.

[Zeargi]

A solution I came up with is this:

New BCNM Fights:
★Alexander
★Odin
★Abomination
★Shadows Await (Ahriman + Dragon/Mission 2-3)
★The Wyrm God
*With the ones above plus:
★Dawn
★The Shadow Lord

Then add an Item that only drops from the higher Difficulties

The Kupon-I Mats II which when traded gives 1 of the following:

Dense Clusters - HMP Substitution
Umbral Coagulation - Umbra Marrow Substitution
Void Debris - Riftdross Substitution
Void Ash - Riftcinder Substitution
Cat's Eye - Alexandrite Substitution
Bayld Crystal - H-P Bayld Substitution
10,000 Bynes
Rimilala Stripeshell
Ranperre Goldpiece
Bztavian wing
Rockfin tooth
Slice of gabbrath meat
Waktza crest
Yggdreant root
Cehuetzi pelt

Then you have all of the weapons covered except the Aeonics

You give people a reason to help do REM's Chapters for armors. You can add more armors to be won from the newer fights, and you can give people a chance to upgrade there stuff.

[dasva]

Without bothering with someone I'll just leave this here as a comparison:

Using average prices on my server (100s/stacks for ones readily available since it's usually cheaper and nobody got time to buy several thousand of something in singles lol) gil costs (kind of hard to compare the pure timesinks between each but none are too horrible nowadays) to 119 are as follows

Relic: 43.5-45.7 mil depending on which ones.

Mythic: 169.5 mil

Ergon : ~453 mil with another 50k-2mil depending on your lucky with the random delve boss item roulette

Empyrean: 156-222mil depending on which one.

Now mythics and ergons being higher priced kind of make sense (though in ergons case you could certainly argue not that much higher) due to how great and job defining they are. They literally are that much better than say relics at the bottom.

But empyreans are by and large not much better and sometimes not even better than relics but cost ~4-5x as much. In fact half the empyrean weapons cost more the mythics that completely blow them out of the water

If that's not unbalanced I don't know what is

[Feary]

i think the problem here is that ppl are focusing on just these items itself.

i believe the real problem here is not how high the demand is vs how low the supply of hmp/rift~ are. the problem is how low the demand is for VW vs how high the demand is for the currencies are from the content.

i simple fix would be to revamp/rehash the main drops. the ogier/rubeus/athos or even enkido sets along with new accessories(back waist neck grips) could be remodeled to 119 and the currencies like curor/silver mirrors/ can be the items to enhance them, rather than just straight random drops.

this would solve the issue as long hmp/rifts where also a chance in the pool for any of the nm that drop base items.

there really is no need from them to be more difficult then 3-12 ppl.

with a similiar change there would be no reason to increase the drop rate or directly change the balance.

[Pups323]

INC surge voidwatch! 1/1000 chance for the nm to appear as a surged nm with a 2% chance to drop a pouch that has between 5-15 heavy metals!

[detlef]

I don't think people are focusing enough on voidstone availability. Seriously, a maximum of two voidstones per day does not cut it when you burn through 6 in less than 30 minutes.

Considering the adjustments to Salvage, Assaults, Einherjar, Meebles, and probably other things I can't think of, it's amazing that SE has been so stubborn with Voidwatch

[BurnNotice]

I remember somebody brought up the issue with voidstones and the conversion of voiddust. I believe that ties into this situation. Those folks are farming for items and end up depleting their stones as a result. The direction I was hoping the Dev team would go is to either add 119 content with a better chance and alternative to get these items or add them to Abyssea NMs....maybe even add new some 119+ NMs with unique armor/weapons and such.

[Sapphires]

I came back from a multi-month break from the game and thankfully I had several hundred voidstones saved up.
When you put in the time to do the content, the drop rates are good for hmp/dross/cinder. There is constantly people doing VW during the campaign right now (even a bit of 'congestion')

Over the course of a week 3 players have been able to pool their drops from voidwatch to have half the heavy metal and cinder to make a new empyrean.
The biggest problem I have is voiddust is nonexistent, and there is no reasonably time efficient mechanism (by doing 119 content or capacity points farming, or a gil-sink) to create 6 voidstones.

The purveryor rates for converting AN/CP are pointless (who is going to use copper 2 vouchers for the AN/CP to get just 1 dust).

Can you please have the Curio Vendor Moogle sell voiddust for 6-9k gil each?, that way people that love doing voidwatch have a means to do the content and not be time gated so heavily?
I want to stay subscribed and farm for more empyreans, i'm ok with a gil cost that allows me to repeatedly to do the content (for the economy balance) so I could do it repeatedly like dynamis/salvage can be done these days.

[Ulth]

I came back from a multi-month break from the game and thankfully I had several hundred voidstones saved up.
When you put in the time to do the content, the drop rates are good for hmp/dross/cinder. There is constantly people doing VW during the campaign right now (even a bit of 'congestion')

Over the course of a week 3 players have been able to pool their drops from voidwatch to have half the heavy metal and cinder to make a new empyrean.
The biggest problem I have is voiddust is nonexistent, and there is no reasonably time efficient mechanism (by doing 119 content or capacity points farming, or a gil-sink) to create 6 voidstones.

The purveryor rates for converting AN/CP are pointless (who is going to use copper 2 vouchers for the AN/CP to get just 1 dust).

Can you please have the Curio Vendor Moogle sell voiddust for 6-9k gil each?, that way people that love doing voidwatch have a means to do the content and not be time gated so heavily?
I want to stay subscribed and farm for more empyreans, i'm ok with a gil cost that allows me to repeatedly to do the content (for the economy balance) so I could do it repeatedly like dynamis/salvage can be done these days.

That doesn't actually speak well for the drop rates if you had 3 people pull all their saved up voidstones and are only half way done with those 2 steps of the empyrean weapon. Also something to keep in mind is this is during an event that makes it easier.

Anyway what I find particularly upsetting about HMP and riftcinder/dross is there is no guarantee. At the end of salvage II I always get a linen pouch, proc'd mobs in dyna always drop currency, ADL always drops a marrow, and PW always drops a scoria. If there was harder content that always dropped one HMP pouch or one riftcinder/dross I would do that instead, but right now the only options are buy them off the AH or cross your fingers and hope you get lucky.

Even with ergon weapons you always make positive progress on your HP-Bayld. WKR always drops an HP-Bayld, and even when you don't get one from normal reives you get Bayld which can be used to purchase HP-Bayld.

Even if the change was something as small as Zilart T3s always dropping a single HMP it would make the grind more bearable. There is something reassuring about being able to quantify the minimum number of times you have to kill a NM.

[Sapphires]

Editing this post since it got too long, and corrected my numbers since I was wrong in 1 spot which threw time calculation off which is kind of a big deal and makes empyreans faster to finish than mythics.

200 voidstones were used by each character.
25-30 minutes to warp to site +pop+kill x6 + warp to town + vendor non RME materials from pyxis to npc + restock stones+ rubi cells.
Targeted VW NM's:
T3 Sky / Morta / Bismarck

in roughly of 34 hours of voidwatch , 3 characters partied together accumulated the combined hmp/dross/cinder:
655 heavy metal
39 riftdross
34 cinder

Based on my data and the drop rate data % of the monsters in question on another site, i'd project you'd have to use ~1300 total voidstones of higher tier voidwatch (T3 Sky / Morta / Bismarck) self farmed to build an empyrean weapon by 1 player.

That's 1 player grabbing x6 stones, running off and doing a 'voidwatch set' 217 times (a mix of Uptala/Qilin/Aello/Morta/Bismarck/IgAlima/BotulusRex )
217 sets / 2 sets an hour = 108.5 hours of nonstop solo player spamming voidwatch under absolute perfect vw campaign conditions. So just spend 3-4hrs a day for a month.
That number seems really low, and id be pessimistic and probably double it and say 200hrs if you have to mess with procs if you dont do vw during campaign, slower killspeed, etc solo.
Compare that to say 200 hours of salvage spam and does it feel fair?

SE could make the drops even better for the pure soloist that is still too much voidwatch for 1 person to make a weapon, but that would most certainly accelerate the building rate of empyreans for people teaming up which is what probably gives SE some pause about doing it.

[Ulth]

I don't understand the point you are trying to make, but there are some flaws. When I do salvage I kill everything that can drop alex. Each run takes about an hour, sometimes I go under some times I go over. Not counting runs when 2 linen pouches drop I average about 120 alex a run. So really that 136 million gil would be more like 216 million.

Another problem I have with the comparison is the money you can make from the events shouldn't be the measuring stick of whether or the drop rates need to be improved. The prices of HMP and riftcinder are so high because the demand out weights the supply, because the supply is low. The comparison that should be worked out is hours to hours. I'm just going to go with your worked out number of 650 hours to farm for an Empy weapon. When you compare that to the 250 hours it would take to get 30k alex it's seems unreasonable to make an empyrean weapon over a mythic event though mythics tend to be superior.

[dasva]

I don't think people are focusing enough on voidstone availability. Seriously, a maximum of two voidstones per day does not cut it when you burn through 6 in less than 30 minutes.

Considering the adjustments to Salvage, Assaults, Einherjar, Meebles, and probably other things I can't think of, it's amazing that SE has been so stubborn with Voidwatch

Yeah unless your character is a few years old and started the vw quest back when it came out your supply runs out rather fast and voiddust is basically non-existant

Also to the above time calculations it's rather bad to use events for it. Take away the event and go back to getting lights and those kill times will easily double or triple. Even worse once you run out of stones

[Catmato]

With Medal of Altana, you can earn 4500 Allied Notes per campaign battle evaluation. It's stupidly easy to amass a large number of notes.

[detlef]

That doesn't make it worthwhile. VW is only really profitable when voidstones are free. Adding void dust farming as another step is a significant hurdle.

[Catmato]

That doesn't make it worthwhile. VW is only really profitable when voidstones are free. Adding void dust farming as another step is a significant hurdle.

I won't disagree. However, coming from someone who enjoys campaign battles, it would be worth it for me.

[Zeargi]

How about being able to trade in the Crystal Petrifacts for other items. >_> At least you wouldn't feel like you're losing inventory space, and see how I don't think anyone is doing Provenance, could also be a good thought

[Ulth]

How about being able to trade in the Crystal Petrifacts for other items. >_> At least you wouldn't feel like you're losing inventory space, and see how I don't think anyone is doing Provenance, could also be a good thought

Could add HMP pouches and riftcinder/dross to Provenance fights. That might get people doing them again. They would even work when the event isn't up since there is no lights for those.

[Olor]

voiddust is basically non-existant



Every time I try to sell voiddust it gets sent back. Doesn't help that people don't want to pay fair value for it.

If folks want to encourage people to put voiddust on the market they have to be willing to pay a price that makes it worthwhile to farm it. I like doing campaign and I used to do it for fun for awhile there... but sometimes you want to spend your time productively too... and right now campaign is a very low payoff even selling dust.

[Elexia]

Every time I try to sell voiddust it gets sent back. Doesn't help that people don't want to pay fair value for it.

The problem is the said "Fair value", no one will pay those prices as they're not that desperate for it. I mean, 100k a stack isn't terrible..but if you're trying to sell over that, it simply won't happen.

[dasva]

With Medal of Altana, you can earn 4500 Allied Notes per campaign battle evaluation. It's stupidly easy to amass a large number of notes.

Still end up spending more time farming stones than actually doing vw... which is already a fairly time/gil inefficient event as is except during campaigns


Every time I try to sell voiddust it gets sent back. Doesn't help that people don't want to pay fair value for it.

If folks want to encourage people to put voiddust on the market they have to be willing to pay a price that makes it worthwhile to farm it. I like doing campaign and I used to do it for fun for awhile there... but sometimes you want to spend your time productively too... and right now campaign is a very low payoff even selling dust.

Kind of goes hand in hand with why farm it yourself. The "fair value" of it should somewhat be based on the time it takes to get it. So if it isn't profitable to farm up the dust yourself it probably wont be profitable to buy it at a value based on what it took to get it. It was pretty good back in the day because people were just cashing in points from things they were already doing for other reasons so it wasn't priced as the main goal of their time. Basically adds into everything.

Like right now doing morta can do a batch and run back in about half an hour so like 12 an hour. Based on droprates from ffxidb should get 1.5 hmp, .45 cinder, .2 dross. Based on prices on my server that would be about 750k an hour which is already pretty meh gil per hour but then if you subtract 100k out of that to buy stones it gets even worse especially if you get those gross no cinder runs and end up barely doing more than break even.

Another part is I think so many people are used to seeing none on that they don't bother checking. There is also the whole these fights take so much longer if not campaign and aren't proccing so people either save stones for them or the gil/hr doing these drops to like 200k/hr and then they REALLY don't want to spend gil just for the chance to make peanuts when they can just do a quick salvage run for a lot more

[Olor]

Oh I totally agree I don't blame people for not buying since voidwatch itself is so out of whack on a reward ratio basis. I think that devs should at the very least cut the cost of voidstones for points in half, if prices stayed the same then it might actually be worth farming them at that point. Now it's just incidental. If I do some campaign and have some extra currency maybe I will throw some up but at this point I don't feel any need to do so since it's not worth my time.

Also a lot of people don't realize how much this game relied on casuals farming not very excellent content to make everything work. As the population declines a lot of goals just get harder and harder to meet.

Anyway, folks on Asura, I have lots of stones and like to voidwatch so hit me up if you see me.


The problem is the said "Fair value", no one will pay those prices as they're not that desperate for it. I mean, 100k a stack isn't terrible..but if you're trying to sell over that, it simply won't happen.

mmm has been awhile since I tried to sell but pretty sure people wanted for less than that. Anyway at 100K a stack even it's not worth the time spent doing campaign etc unless you are getting something else out of it.

[OmnysValefor]

Olor, this is unrelated to the topic but--I've seen you post in several places and wanted to comment that I love your sig-graphic.

[Olor]

Thanks! It was made by someone on the forums... mmm kingfury was their name. I don't think they play XI anymore though. Too bad. They are very talented, a number of folks have sigs made by him. Karbuncle for example also had their sig made by him. Kind of makes me sad since I haven't played BST since they gimped it up. Now just playing BLU and THF (pretty much dyna only) and leveling random stuff... tbh I don't play much anymore... but I keep subbing cause the nostalgia is strong.

[OmnysValefor]

Thanks! It was made by someone on the forums... mmm kingfury was their name. I don't think they play XI anymore though. Too bad. They are very talented, a number of folks have sigs made by him. Karbuncle for example also had their sig made by him.

Yeah it was very reminiscient of Karbuncle's so I thought there was a common artist.

[Ulth]

Thanks! It was made by someone on the forums... mmm kingfury was their name. I don't think they play XI anymore though. Too bad. They are very talented, a number of folks have sigs made by him. Karbuncle for example also had their sig made by him. Kind of makes me sad since I haven't played BST since they gimped it up. Now just playing BLU and THF (pretty much dyna only) and leveling random stuff... tbh I don't play much anymore... but I keep subbing cause the nostalgia is strong.

Pretty sure he still plays, unless that's another Kingfury I'm seeing around. Probably just doesn't draw portraits for people anymore. Which is understandable, the list of people wanting one from him is like a mile long. It must get tiring.

[detlef]

You know, maybe the solution is that a single void dust should fill you up rather than give you one voidstone. I think this would be enough to create more demand for void dust while also alleviating some of the common annoyances like having to buy 6 void dust at a time having to trade them in one by one.

[Catmato]

You know, maybe the solution is that a single void dust should fill you up rather than give you one voidstone. I think this would be enough to create more demand for void dust while also alleviating some of the common annoyances like having to buy 6 void dust at a time having to trade them in one by one.

That sounds pretty good. Also gives more incentive to get Frontier Periapts.

[Ulth]

I just had a super productive day in Vana'diel today. I beat Qilin 48 times and got no heavy metal pouches. Traded cells for each kill and everything.

[Elexia]

I just had a super productive day in Vana'diel today.

Same - Finished off my crafting goal and made about 8mil.

[Sapphires]

I just had a super productive day in Vana'diel today. I beat Qilin 48 times and got no heavy metal pouches. Traded cells for each kill and everything.

Thats some extraordinarily bad luck, is your blue+red alignment 550% at the end? we always use rubi+cobalt and get at least 5 items from the pyxis.

I did 14x6 Aellos yesterday - a party of 4 LS players+2trusts and we got 21 pouches which comes out to a 1 in 16 droprate which is 6.25% which is extremely close to the ffxidb stats of 6% collected for uptala/qilin/aello on heavy metal pouches.

So there is either a drop penalty for a pure soloist if you arent doing it with others, or you are missing a KI thats preventing you from being 550% alignment with cells, or you had some bad luck, or qilin is bugged (everyone I know farms uptala or aello, so i have no data on qilin farming during the campaign)

[Ulth]

I only use two cells instead of three because of how TH can't take alignment over 550% which is another upsetting thing about VW, so mine is more like 540% for red and blue, but yeah I have the oddest luck with VW. During this event I've gotten like 10 pouches yet against all odds somehow got a Coruscanti. It's annoying that luck is so dependent on making an empy. It makes me feel like I should just make the gil and buy them but that is a pretty unrewarding feeling. Even if I were to buy them there is still the problem of supply as there is not enough on the auction house, and it will probably get worst with the upcoming update.

[Olor]

Pretty sure he still plays, unless that's another Kingfury I'm seeing around. Probably just doesn't draw portraits for people anymore. Which is understandable, the list of people wanting one from him is like a mile long. It must get tiring.

Ah, I just thought he wasn't playing since he used to post on the boards but doesn't anymore. I just assumed that meant he was gone.

:)

[detlef]

Heavy Metal Pouches are a lot like t1 synths in that they are common enough that you get your hopes up but rare enough that you can have depressing streaks between good results. 1/16 load rate will mess with you.

Also Pulse weapons should load more often but that's neither here nor there.

[Ulth]

Yeah but generally you only need a t1 synth once, though in the case of the new abjuration you need it twice in a row, but the problem is I need something like 150 heavy metal pouches right?

[detlef]

Yeah but generally you only need a t1 synth once, though in the case of the new abjuration you need it twice in a row, but the problem is I need something like 150 heavy metal pouches right?I was just making the comparison that a 1/16 load rate is high enough that you expect to see something but low enough that you can be on the bad end of some brutal streaks.

[Sapphires]

Akvan / Kaggen / Pil will drop single metals about 1 in 3 times which can feel a bit more satisfying and consistent, but over the long run gives less metal per stone+time spent.
I'd suggest sticking with Qilin / Aello / Uptala if you are after metal though and accept its really streaky and focus on your long term average per 100 kills.

In general focused farming for RMEs for its specific currency to the exclusion of other activities to finish it has never been really advisable, and its a recipe for burning out on the game.

All my mythics for example were funded with drops from doing dynamis and voidwatch and selling those drops to buy alexandrite to supplement the progress from also running salvage.
When I made my 119 armageddon I used dynamis+salvage drops to fund the dross+hmp acquisition , and maintain a variety of activities to avoid burning out.

[Kincard]

Is there any particular reason you guys stick to Qilin and co? Only reason I'd do them is if I wanted to simultaneously try my luck at a spiffy lockstyle item, otherwise as far as I know Botulus/Morta are still the best average value per pop, even if you felt like playing it safe and spent a few void clusters on them.

[Sapphires]

I originally started with morta mainly because I wanted to have 60 dross and cinder out of the way first.
Morta is better in terms of npcable pyxis gil return + overall value for sure.
I mainly did the sky vw NMs to farm as much of the metal as possible on my own since the supply is wildly fluctuating in availability+price (400 single metals were on the AH this morning and someone bought them all just as an example). I really didnt want to burn my gil reserve and rely on the AH stocked with metal to meet my needs - there are several people doing empyreans aggressively right now.

I only need 200hmp to finish my 1500 needed now, and if I decide to keep spamming voidwatch till the end of the event ill definitely go back and stick to Botulus/Morta with some bismarck thrown in for variety.

[Ulth]

Is there any particular reason you guys stick to Qilin and co? Only reason I'd do them is if I wanted to simultaneously try my luck at a spiffy lockstyle item, otherwise as far as I know Botulus/Morta are still the best average value per pop, even if you felt like playing it safe and spent a few void clusters on them.

Qilin to me is pretty easy I normally kill in about a minute solo with trusts, I know because my trick attack timer isn't up by the end and it's merited 5/5. But yeah same reason, plates is what I'm worried about not being able to finish, and are in worst supply compared to the amount needed. Riftdross is cheap at 200k each and Riftcinder is on a downward trend from 1.5 mil to just 1 mil a 33% loss in value. Morta's other cash drop belladonna sap may also take a hit.

[dasva]

Don't worry they'll all start going back up in a few days

[BurnNotice]

So with the campaign that ended, I am getting alot of feedback on how people blow through voiddust and not restoring fast enough to people getting burned out on farming HMPs, Riftdross/Riftcinders. From my experience and others, this didn't relieve any supply/demand issues and didnt make things a little more convenient. So, I hope the Dev is coming up with a better idea.

So let's compromise. I am sure the team has thought about adding more 119+ content. So, look into using Abyssea as that avenue. Have those NMs drop the HMP pouches, Riftdross/Riftcinders and other unique stuff where is would require 3+ people to tackle it. Looking for a dev response. Please advise.

[Elexia]

So with the campaign that ended, I am getting alot of feedback on how people blow through voiddust and not restoring fast enough to people getting burned out on farming HMPs, Riftdross/Riftcinders. From my experience and others, this didn't relieve any supply/demand issues and didnt make things a little more convenient. So, I hope the Dev is coming up with a better idea.

So let's compromise. I am sure the team has thought about adding more 119+ content. So, look into using Abyssea as that avenue. Have those NMs drop the HMP pouches, Riftdross/Riftcinders and other unique stuff where is would require 3+ people to tackle it. Looking for a dev response. Please advise.

Then you have people complain they blew through their 2-7k stone stock for Abyssea and it's a never ending cycle until SE says "Ok, we'll just put the things on an NPC for you to buy it."

[Catmato]

So, look into using Abyssea as that avenue. Have those NMs drop the HMP pouches, Riftdross/Riftcinders and other unique stuff where is would require 3+ people to tackle it. Looking for a dev response. Please advise.

Probably not going to happen. Abyssea is level 90 content, whereas VW is level 99.

[Vae]

Probably not going to happen. Abyssea is level 90 content, whereas VW is level 99.

They 2.0 Everything. literally. I would be much more shocked it there wasn't Higher Tier VW coming. Where it's located is the only caveat.

[dasva]

They 2.0 Everything. literally. I would be much more shocked it there wasn't Higher Tier VW coming. Where it's located is the only caveat.

Same spot but you choose difficulty level. Expend more stones for higher difficulties lol

[OmnysValefor]

Monsters! Only monsters would speak of bringing back one of the worst loot systems ever conceived.

I got 4 Porthos Byrnies before the friend I was helping farm one got one. Porthos wasn't cell-able I had to just leave them in the chest.

Or my favorite, dude at his first Kaggen says "I got some body...?"

[Olor]

Monsters! Only monsters would speak of bringing back one of the worst loot systems ever conceived.

I got 4 Porthos Byrnies before the friend I was helping farm one got one. Porthos wasn't cell-able I had to just leave them in the chest.

Or my favorite, dude at his first Kaggen says "I got some body...?"

I got Kaggen body in less than 10 runs but still don't have a Hekas even though I have done Akvan at least 500 times (probably way more) by this point.

The loot system wasn't exactly great but it did keep the content relevant for longer. VS now, when they release a new battle, hardcores have everything on it in like a week and then the content is dead... Also the fact that people of different gear levels can participate...

[Lonnan]

I know that VW is old content and probably not on the top of the list for development. However, the drop rates are even more of an issue now since it's no longer popular and items needed to upgrade empy weapons (and I'd throw in reforging relic armor too) is even harder to obtain.

Instead of rehashing a well stated problem, I would like to offer a solution. Can we implement a Delve or Vagary style method to allow players to buy drops. In Delve, players receive plasma for defeating monsters and NMs in the content. Players are then able to use the plasma to buy any drop from any Delve they have completed. This allows players to still obtain items they might not have been lucky enough to have obtained in the actual Delve. Vagary has a similar method allowing players to collect KIs that can be exchanged for zone drops. In both content players are rewarded for repeating the content even if they have no luck with treasure drops.

A similar system could be implemented in Voidwatch which would credit players for each successful battle and allow players to use those credits to purchase drops. Obviously this would change VW a bit and controls would need to be in place so that players cannot spam tier 1 fights and use them to purchase drops from tier 2 and tier 3 VWNMs. However, providing an alternate strategy for players to purchase drops (rather than dumb luck) would alleviate a lot of frustration.

While I am at it, it would be nice if UNM drops could also be purchased by exchanging a number of the UNMs signature drop. This is might be more controversial, but anytime people can be rewarded for work rather than luck is a good thing in my opinion.

[Olor]

While I am at it, it would be nice if UNM drops could also be purchased by exchanging a number of the UNMs signature drop. This is might be more controversial, but anytime people can be rewarded for work rather than luck is a good thing in my opinion.

It would be nice. Then people could just buy the item if they want and have trouble getting people to join in the content. There are lots of UNM I'd like stuff from but I don't have enough free time to justify spending hours shouting... would much rather do dynamis or something, sell the drops and get other things. Though I would love to do more of the content directly... but most people (who can hit things) have better gear options than 119-121 UNM offer and so are not super into doing those NMs.

[dasva]

I got Kaggen body in less than 10 runs but still don't have a Hekas even though I have done Akvan at least 500 times (probably way more) by this point.

The loot system wasn't exactly great but it did keep the content relevant for longer. VS now, when they release a new battle, hardcores have everything on it in like a week and then the content is dead... Also the fact that people of different gear levels can participate...

Haha. So like I was actually trying farm the bullet on a cor mule I don't plan on taking to 99... that mule by itself got 4 heka bodies before bullet. Not that Heka body was raining down but I just did that many before it dropped. Oddly though no one buying the pulses which I thought people would still want them. Oh well.

[Olor]

Haha. So like I was actually trying farm the bullet on a cor mule I don't plan on taking to 99... that mule by itself got 4 heka bodies before bullet. Not that Heka body was raining down but I just did that many before it dropped. Oddly though no one buying the pulses which I thought people would still want them. Oh well.

I'd be willing to buy pulses but not at the price people are asking... the body is not good enough to justify spending 2.5 mil on it anymore. Not when I could use that gil to buy something relevant.

Also that's very bad luck on the bullet. I have at least 3 of them. They don't drop that often though.

[OmnysValefor]

I have it, got it years ago (on the other hand, there's a few vw pieces I could never get) but I'd definitely spend 2m for a heka's. It's only a macro piece these days, but it's such a potent one. The same can't really be said for Mekira/Toci's.

[Olor]

I have it, got it years ago (on the other hand, there's a few vw pieces I could never get) but I'd definitely spend 2m for a heka's. It's only a macro piece these days, but it's such a potent one. The same can't really be said for Mekira/Toci's.

Can you explain what it's used to macro these days? Am I missing something that other pieces can't do better? I am not always sure what is good for what...

[BurnNotice]

I would hope one day they will be used for something like crystal petrifacts. Tons of lvl 99 gear, especially good ones from VW and Salvage, gone to waste. Especially those unique weapons HQ weapons from VW til this day tons of people still haven't seen dropped.

You know what would be cold-blooded? If the dev team decided to use those weapons as part the Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Ergon Weapon Reforging (knock on wood).

[Lonnan]

I would hope one day they will be used for something like crystal petrifacts. Tons of lvl 99 gear, especially good ones from VW and Salvage, gone to waste. Especially those unique weapons HQ weapons from VW til this day tons of people still haven't seen dropped.

You know what would be cold-blooded? If the dev team decided to use those weapons as part the Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Ergon Weapon Reforging (knock on wood).

I actually thought about this the other day. We already have a universal currency system that (mostly) comes from completing high tier content and this is copper vouchers. Copper vouchers can already be used to purchase 119 REM upgrade mats, how hard would it be to add HMPS, Riftcinders, and Rift Dross to that list. Sure people will get some CVs from daily and time based RoE, but most of my vouchers come from exchanging unwanted gear. They could also add crystal petricfacts and sliver mirrors to the list of exchangable items. Ok since that content isn't 119, maybe they are only worth 400 or 200 points, but they drop a whole lot more often than the Empy upgrade mats and if you could turn them into CVs and the CVs into the needed mats, you are still making progress even when the VW gods aren't smiling your way. Plus it doesn't require the Devs to tinker with VW so it should be cheap and easy to implement. Just a thought.

[BurnNotice]

I actually thought about this the other day. We already have a universal currency system that (mostly) comes from completing high tier content and this is copper vouchers. Copper vouchers can already be used to purchase 119 REM upgrade mats, how hard would it be to add HMPS, Riftcinders, and Rift Dross to that list. Sure people will get some CVs from daily and time based RoE, but most of my vouchers come from exchanging unwanted gear. They could also add crystal petricfacts and sliver mirrors to the list of exchangable items. Ok since that content isn't 119, maybe they are only worth 400 or 200 points, but they drop a whole lot more often than the Empy upgrade mats and if you could turn them into CVs and the CVs into the needed mats, you are still making progress even when the VW gods aren't smiling your way. Plus it doesn't require the Devs to tinker with VW so it should be cheap and easy to implement. Just a thought.

That's a good point. It does make since to do it that way. Now if we can get the Dev team to see this point of view or any worthwhile suggestions, we will be in good shape. There's another forum with a discussion about a VW 2.0. It seems a lot of people want to see that happen for a few key reasons:

1) Content for all jobs to participate in at lvl 119+. I know some may say "Well, that's what Unity NMs are for". Which leads to the next reason.

2) Increase chance being reward a HMP pouch, Riftcinders, Riftdross, and new gear. Plus, an opportunity to for players to receive there own coffer after each win and stacking them just like Incursion and Unity battles.

3) Clearly, this was something that most people really did enjoy (then SR took the spotlight for a bit in a great way) and this is without the focus on HMPs Riftdross/Cinders.

So hopefully they will take your suggestion and others from this forum and the VW forum and really do something for us. This can be a win win for the dev and us without having the team to expand more resource.

[OmnysValefor]

Whether it makes sense or not is arguable. Being able to get HMP from vouchers would cause the market to crash, just like beitetsu, plutons, and boulders.

[BurnNotice]

Whether it makes sense or not is arguable. Being able to get HMP from vouchers would cause the market to crash, just like beitetsu, plutons, and boulders.

Honestly, I am pretty sure it wouldn't crash the economy since there are tons of methods of making gil. Alexs and relic currencies surely didn't so I know this wouldn't. Plus SE can always make it where you can exchange 1 CV for 1 HMP or 5 for 1 Riftdross/Riftcinder for the purpose of balance. As much as I hate to have suggested that and hoping for 1 for 1, this seems like a realistic and balanced suggestion that should be consider. The only objection I can foresee is if they do it for this, then they have to do it for relic currencies, alexs, and HPB (even though you can exchange bayld for HPB already).

[Vae]

Honestly, I am pretty sure it wouldn't crash the economy since there are tons of methods of making gil. Alexs and relic currencies surely didn't so I know this wouldn't. Plus SE can always make it where you can exchange 1 CV for 1 HMP or 5 for 1 Riftdross/Riftcinder for the purpose of balance. As much as I hate to have suggested that and hoping for 1 for 1, this seems like a realistic and balanced suggestion that should be consider. The only objection I can foresee is if they do it for this, then they have to do it for relic currencies, alexs, and HPB (even though you can exchange bayld for HPB already).

Realistically it would be 10 vouchers per plate. 1 voucher is worth 10k gil +/- Not a damn thing would change with the economy if they added them at 10 vouchers each. It takes an entire 24 hours to get 10 vouchers, maybe longer tbh... you only get 1 every 4 hours and 1 for some daily's.

There is NO REASON that you shouldn't be able to buy HMP/Cinder/Dross/Marrow/Scoria/everything else under the sun for merits from the goblin or straight up market value from an NPC. Yeah, market value fluxuates. I don't think ANYONE would argue against paying even 150k per plate, for an unlimited supply.

[OmnysValefor]

People do not deserve 100k per plate for afk beating a 99 content mob to death blindfolded.

Why is it bull? Because some people are quite willing to spend a campaign farming what others (including myself) are not?

I have no qualms about alternative means for acquiring HMP, but I don't think they should be so carelessly available as beitetsu etc are.

30,000 alex was just as much an absurd slap in the face. SE found ways to make the effort reasonable without utterly destroying the market. Once I'm done farming my burtgang, I can see how I can make decent gil farming a salvage or two every few days.

[OmnysValefor]

Honestly, I am pretty sure it wouldn't crash the economy since there are tons of methods of making gil. Alexs and relic currencies surely didn't so I know this wouldn't. Plus SE can always make it where you can exchange 1 CV for 1 HMP or 5 for 1 Riftdross/Riftcinder for the purpose of balance. As much as I hate to have suggested that and hoping for 1 for 1, this seems like a realistic and balanced suggestion that should be consider. The only objection I can foresee is if they do it for this, then they have to do it for relic currencies, alexs, and HPB (even though you can exchange bayld for HPB already).

But...it absolutely did crash the economy for beitetsu etc. Doing the same thing for plates would do the same thing.

Again, no problem with alternative means, but this idea of vouchers for plates is an irrational reaction. Have escha t1s drop a plate (or two), have escha t2's possibly drop a pouch and have t3s guaranteed drop a pouch or "case" (containing a fixed amount).

[Olor]

anyone reading my posts would see I am generally supportive of making things have more options/more reasonable to obtain but plates should only come from content, not from copper vouchers... Can't get ancient currency or alex from it.

[Alhanelem]

Eventually this thread will probably have to be renamed "Availability of HMPs, Riftcinders, Riftdross, Bietetsus, Plutons, Riftborn Boulders" :cool:

[BurnNotice]

Eventually this thread will probably have to be renamed "Availability of HMPs, Riftcinders, Riftdross, Bietetsus, Plutons, Riftborn Boulders" :cool:


It's heading in that direction.

[BurnNotice]

Ok, I understand the objection of using CVs. Any other suggestions? I am sure there is something the Dev can consider. Again, I am all for it being under some 119+ that everyone be involved in as an alternative.

[detlef]

-More guaranteed drop slots
-Faster voidstone generation
-Streamline void dust process and consider 1 void dust -> completely refill your voidstones
-Add Pluton/Beitetsu/Boulders somehow

[Elexia]

Eventually this thread will probably have to be renamed "Availability of HMPs, Riftcinders, Riftdross, Bietetsus, Plutons, Riftborn Boulders" :cool:


Pretty much even though it takes little to no effort and have multiple ways to get some of them already. Just seems people really don't want to do the content that drops them and for some reason, against Copper Vouchers.

[Rydal]

-More guaranteed drop slots
-Faster voidstone generation
-Streamline void dust process and consider 1 void dust -> completely refill your voidstones
-Add Pluton/Beitetsu/Boulders somehow

This plus:

-Increase max voidstone capacity (max is, what, 6 now with the right KIs?)
-Guarantee HMP and/or Rift on higher Tier NM kills (Final tier of 3 nations Jeuno, upper tiers of the rest) in addition to normal drop
-Allow higher tier NMs (same as above) to have a chance to drop HMP bag (via white proc maybe? or just very rare drop chance)

[BurnNotice]

I would think they would have to add it to high tier VWs and add Pluton/Beitetsu/Boulders to those for purpose of balance. But I agree with some of the suggestions above. I hope maybe in the future there will be an announcement for some High Tier VWs with some adjustments. I remember years ago people said they will never be a Blue Mage job because it's over powering. we got it! I also remember people saying the level cap will never be raised about 75. We got it! After WoTG expansion, people said there will never be another expansion. We got it! So I knows there's hope for this. I hope the Dev Team is looking at this forum and will try to test some ideas and see if its feasible to implement them without taking away the quality of producing empy weapons.

[Camate]

Hello, everyone!

I think you'll be happy to hear that the development team is currently planning other avenues to obtain Heavy Metal Plates and all the other item that are in high demand. While this will be addressed sometime after the April version update, I believe you will find that it will be easier to obtain a greater amount of these items. We'll share more information once the plans have been finalized.

[Vae]

The Goblin right, I'm gonna go ahead and reserve my enthusiasm. I suggest you do the same.

"Better than nothing"

[BurnNotice]

Thank you for the reply Camate. This is motivating information. Keep us posted! Would be awesome to see what other avenues we can take advantage of!

[Alhanelem]

Hello, everyone!

I think you'll be happy to hear that the development team is currently planning other avenues to obtain Heavy Metal Plates and all the other item that are in high demand. While this will be addressed sometime after the April version update, I believe you will find that it will be easier to obtain a greater amount of these items. We'll share more information once the plans have been finalized.

While I'll reserve judgement til more details are available, any improvements are welcome and I cautiously interpret this as a sign they've realized that (in particular) empyrean weapons are disproportionately more difficult to forge. And also hopefully that they realized how suddenly and quickly they drained the upgrade rock supply with the latest update.

[Ataraxia]

Hello, everyone!

I think you'll be happy to hear that the development team is currently planning other avenues to obtain Heavy Metal Plates and all the other item that are in high demand. While this will be addressed sometime after the April version update, I believe you will find that it will be easier to obtain a greater amount of these items. We'll share more information once the plans have been finalized.


I'm hoping this is good news. Unity Cord NM are so much better than VW because people are rewarded for their hard work of clearing NM and is able to use accolade to buy upgrade to make +1 119 gear. If their was a npc that a player can trade cruor points for items for HQ weapons, heavy metal, heavy metal pouch and others upgrade. This will lead people to be more interested and farming cruor.

Camate are you aware that 1 copper trade to spark npc is = only 1 pluton? so why can't it be 1 copper = Pluton case or box?
Akihiko Matsui do you have any plans to allow the use of vorseals in Hight Tier Mission Battle and Unity Cord? I have notice people have been killing Escha dragon for a long long time now maybe over 100+. and I think it would be too bad it's only active in Escha after all those hard work. At this point any temporary item are fine if it helps with Unity Cord NM and some high tier mission battle solo. In addition, looking forward to what you have plans for April.

[Jeffil]

I'm hoping this is good news. Unity Cord NM are so much better than VW because people are rewarded for their hard work of clearing NM and is able to use accolade to buy upgrade to make +1 119 gear. If their was a npc that a player can trade cruor points for items for HQ weapons, heavy metal, heavy metal pouch and others upgrade. This will lead people to be more interested and farming cruor.

Camate are you aware that 1 copper trade to spark npc is = only 1 pluton? so why can't it be 1 copper = Pluton case or box?
Akihiko Matsui do you have any plans to allow the use of vorseals in Hight Tier Mission Battle and Unity Cord? I have notice people have been killing Escha dragon for a long long time now maybe over 100+. and I think it would be too bad it's only active in Escha after all those hard work. At this point any temporary item are fine if it helps with Unity Cord NM and some high tier mission battle solo. In addition, looking forward to what you have plans for April.

It actually requires 2 copper vouchers for a single pluton/beitetsu/riftborn boulder. Although it would be nicer to be able to have an option to convert, say, 8 vouchers for 1 case of your choice. Would give another avenue for people to use their vouchers if they are not in need of currency, and would make more sense. Currently, pluton/beitetsu/boulders would need to be more than 20k per in order to make the current conversion more beneficial. I don't see people at this point in time using vouchers to convert directly to these materials.

[Pups323]

Well it looks like (on jp forums) ( google translate so dont shoot he messenger)

1) If you have void stones at the voidwatch officer, you dont have to go get the KI, it can just consume them from the officer until he is out (no running back every 6 mobs).
2) It looks like they are tripling the effect of 'cells'


I guess well see this afternoon if they decide to translate it.

[BurnNotice]

Hmmm. Now the KI idea is good, but I don't think tripling the effect of cells will help with the situation. I believe expanding the avenues of how we can obtain these items is a better plan. Again, most would agree that we are not looking for something so easy that all you have to do is /wave and get what you need, but acquiring the items should be as accessible as the items needed for a mythic and relic. Even if it means expanding these items to new 119+ mobs in abyssea or anything VW related.

[Pups323]

I personally think these changes do very little to address the root of the problem, which is

the drop rate is awful
No one does voidwatch/wants to do voidwatch unless they are upgrading an empy
void dust is a pain to obtain (buying 1 at a time AND requiring awful conversion rates)
void stones are too limited compared to other items/end game events of yore (you can salvage 1x per hour/dynamis 1x per hour...but you dont get a new void stone 1x per hour)

[detlef]

I still think it really comes down to voidstones. SE simply has to gives us more of them. Streamlining the process doesn't hurt but eventually you'll run out and you'll be stuck with 2 per day which is just unfathomably low at this point in the game's life. Void dust is not a solution as currently implemented.

I do like the VW campaign we get now and then, but voidstones are still a limiting factor.

[dasva]

And the excuses of but this is alliance content with individual pools so if you bring an alliance to get a ton of drops so no need to up rates doesn't really fly. Aside from the fact most of the farming is done solo or low man really what's the difference between an alliance farming vw for plates or 18 people soloing other content for similar type things like say salvage for alex? On any of this old content that you can easily solo/low man you can still up your overall drops with more people regardless of whether it's 1 pool or individual... but man hours still gunna be high

[Camate]

Greetings, everyone.

I have a small follow-up to my previous post.

As mentioned, we will be looking into other avenues for obtaining heavy metal plates; however, simply increasing the item drop rate is hard to do. Doing so would change some of the fundamental specifications of the content itself.

With this in mind, we are thinking of the following adjustments:

When combat begins, Voidstones held by the NPC “Voidwatch Officer” will be expended.
The Voidstones that are held by the NPC “Voidwatch Officer” will be expended 1 at a time, and this can be done until the entire stock has ran out.
(As it has been in the past, you can still use the Voidstones in your possession to summon Voidwalkers.）
You cannot obtain treasure when you do not possess any Voidstones, and if you are a party leader, you may not start combat without Voidstones.



Tripling the effect of cell items.
The team had been looking into making it so the cell items could be held in stacks of 99; however they encountered a number of problems and discovered that this would not be possible to accomplish. Instead, we are going to increase the effect of the item and adjust it so that 1 use of the item will max out the alignment.


With these adjustments participating in the content should be easier than before.
The vulnerability and alignment system will remain as is, but we will follow up on this with campaigns after April and look into further adjustments to the cell items. For the moment, we would like to see how these adjustments affect game play.

[Angemon]

First option seems very open to congestion, especially during campaign. During the previous campaign I had to fight with people to pop the Voidwalker NMs but none would like to team up. I can imagine one group sitting there holding the vortex hostage and if three groups do it (or three people soloing) then it clogs the whole zone. I know that probably isn't such a big deal on lower population servers but it only takes three people to hold up an entire NM or else you go into the claim wars.

[Tidis]

When you say cells will have their values tripled and reach max alignment with just 1 cell, does that just mean one cell will produce what 3 cells previously did and we still have to proc to cap lights?

[BurnNotice]

Camate, I strongly believe that expanding the cells wouldn't make a world of difference. I can understand changing the drop rate would be a conflict of interest, but using 1 cells just to max out it's respective alignment won't change anything. the expanding stones via NPC and tripling the cells is more of a convenience so people don't have to run back and forth to VWs, it's not a solution to the availability of items. Has there been any other suggestions aside from this?

[Tidis]

Also what happens to the KIs that boost the amount of voidstones you can carry? In essence those will be useless if these changes happen.

[Alexcennah]

These changes will not make any difference. In comparison to Relics and Mythics, we can't make Empyreans in our own pace. We can't spam VW like Salvage, Einherjar or Dynamis because our voidstones are much more limited (Rhapsode in Mauve KI should give us a reduction in time between new Voidstones acquisitions, much like Rhapsode in Azure does with Salvage, Dynamis, Assaults etc). Also we are locked behind a proc system which made sense back in 2011 when VW was a popular alliance event and everyone wanted clears, quick merits, gear and cruor from it. But now it's a very outdated content and we do it low-man or solo because no one has any reason to do it anymore. There's no sense in keeping the proc system because it's a "fundamental specification of the content itself".

What I think SE should do:

1) If they don't want to banish the entire proc system altogether, at least untie Heavy Metal Plates/Pouches, Riftdross and Riftcinder drops from it, i. e., make their drop rates constant and the same as they are now with capped lights.

2) Like I said above, make Rhapsode in Mauve KI drop down new Voidstone acquisition to 1 hour.

[Keya]

Voidstone acquisitions are much faster than Imprimaturs.. while voidstones take 12hours per stone and imprimaturs take 1/2 that time ... you can buy voidstones.. and you can do nothing but wait for imprimaturs..
It could be worse!

[Zeargi]

I'm happy I didn't get my hopes too high, neither of these solutions are going to help. Ultimately, you're just going to cause disgruntled players fighting over spawn points. You just need to make Unity/Escha/Reisenjima Monsters that drops the items that are needed. Let us use the stupid Crystal Petrifacts if you make it a Escha-Reisenjima thing as a spawn trigger, that way people will still do VW and maybe get a few items here and there.

Next up, If you also want to help the players, Give them Special Trusts, A WAR(August Clone), BRD, BLM/SCH, and a WHM that are specially designed for Abyssea and Voidwatch that will Actively SEEK the weakness triggers for Mobs. I know this is asking a lot, but if your not going to bring a wall down that not needed, then you need to give the tools to make so we can still climb it.

Personally, I'd prefer the Escha route because it can be more useful for end-game and helps for things that are being built for the end-results as well.

[Rydal]

Firstly, of the two proposals, the first one is definitely the best and even though it's not great, I hope they implement it regardless because It'd save time with all the running. To avoid congestion, they can make more VWNM spawn points on a map. As it stands now, there's only one spawn point per NM per map (please correct me if I'm wrong) and no NMs share the same map. If they make it 3 points on the map, multiple people could take the NMs on at a time without having to wait if someone decides to camp an Nm for hours.

Tripling the cell effect won't be a huge deal unless it increases the current cap and maximizes the light (not needing to proc at all). Also, won't the cells be completely useless during the VW campaigns?

Also as Tidis has stated, the old KIs will be useless if the voidstone via NPC change happens, but could they be changed to giving an additional voidstone per spawn (so 2 stones with one KI and 3 with both)? That would at least be killing two birds with one voidstone by not negating the KI's use and also giving us more voidstones in less time (basically doubling or tripling the amount of pops we have per stone spawn).

And is it impossible to add a HMP or rift item guarantee proc to the VW system or adding an extra drop to double the chances of one or both dropping per NM?

[Alhanelem]

First option seems very open to congestion, especially during campaign. During the previous campaign I had to fight with people to pop the Voidwalker NMs but none would like to team up. I can imagine one group sitting there holding the vortex hostage and if three groups do it (or three people soloing) then it clogs the whole zone. I know that probably isn't such a big deal on lower population servers but it only takes three people to hold up an entire NM or else you go into the claim wars.
But there's multiple locations for each voidwalker isn't there?

I don't really undestand why people don't team up when the rewards from voidwatch are personal and grouping doesn't affect your chances.

[Zeargi]

But there's multiple locations for each voidwalker isn't there?

I don't really undestand why people don't team up when the rewards from voidwatch are personal and grouping doesn't affect your chances.

I believe there are 3 of them per Non-Aht Urhgan zones. I also don't understand this mentality either, but most shut themselves off to others.

[Pups323]

I noticed the same thing the last 3 campaigns.

Show up to morta,
Find all 3 pops camped by people who wont invite/share
SE states 'but its ment for 18 people'


See the issue? ment for 18...and 3 people in 1 zone would rather solo than team up even though they get their own loot?

[Ataraxia]

Greetings, everyone.

I have a small follow-up to my previous post.

As mentioned, we will be looking into other avenues for obtaining heavy metal plates; however, simply increasing the item drop rate is hard to do. Doing so would change some of the fundamental specifications of the content itself.

With this in mind, we are thinking of the following adjustments:

When combat begins, Voidstones held by the NPC “Voidwatch Officer” will be expended.
The Voidstones that are held by the NPC “Voidwatch Officer” will be expended 1 at a time, and this can be done until the entire stock has ran out.
(As it has been in the past, you can still use the Voidstones in your possession to summon Voidwalkers.）
You cannot obtain treasure when you do not possess any Voidstones, and if you are a party leader, you may not start combat without Voidstones.



Tripling the effect of cell items.
The team had been looking into making it so the cell items could be held in stacks of 99; however they encountered a number of problems and discovered that this would not be possible to accomplish. Instead, we are going to increase the effect of the item and adjust it so that 1 use of the item will max out the alignment.


With these adjustments participating in the content should be easier than before.
The vulnerability and alignment system will remain as is, but we will follow up on this with campaigns after April and look into further adjustments to the cell items. For the moment, we would like to see how these adjustments affect game play.



Uh oh i don't like the sound of this. Even if light is cap which is 550% and no light stagger is needed it doesn't change a thing about VW. It's repetitive and boring and RMT would just love to out camp people. It doesn't offer any 119 gear and 99 is all you gonna get. Unless the light cap was 1,500% or 2,000%? maybe people would actually do it, if they are rewarded for their trouble. This is why I like Escha better because it offer better rewards and people are allow to use temporary items / vorseals.

Akihiko Matusi Unity Cord is boring and not fun because we aren't allow to use temporary, Vorseals or Atmacite to assist us. So how about some adjustment so it's fun to do like Escha NM? Unity Cord made more more sense than VW because a player only have to kill NM once and a person is allow to use 10,000 accolade to buy the upgrade items. Just look at Etched Memory when it's Vagary content items but people can spend sparks points to buy it and their nothing wrong with that. :/

[Siviard]

First option seems very open to congestion, especially during campaign. During the previous campaign I had to fight with people to pop the Voidwalker NMs but none would like to team up. I can imagine one group sitting there holding the vortex hostage and if three groups do it (or three people soloing) then it clogs the whole zone. I know that probably isn't such a big deal on lower population servers but it only takes three people to hold up an entire NM or else you go into the claim wars.

Sounds like a "over-populated server" issue. There were zero, zilch, none, nada, nein issues with groups "camping" spawn spots on the less populated servers.

[Angemon]

Yes which is why I mentioned that in my post, but like I said, it will only take a total of three people to clog a zone with that idea. People might be more inclined to spam it during the campaigns. As far as the not teaming up thing, I would think maybe they don't want to wait on others to restock on KI/cells or wait on them to destroy the chest.

[radarbabyeater]

Greetings, everyone.

I have a small follow-up to my previous post.

As mentioned, we will be looking into other avenues for obtaining heavy metal plates; however, simply increasing the item drop rate is hard to do. Doing so would change some of the fundamental specifications of the content itself.

With this in mind, we are thinking of the following adjustments:

When combat begins, Voidstones held by the NPC “Voidwatch Officer” will be expended.
The Voidstones that are held by the NPC “Voidwatch Officer” will be expended 1 at a time, and this can be done until the entire stock has ran out.
(As it has been in the past, you can still use the Voidstones in your possession to summon Voidwalkers.）
You cannot obtain treasure when you do not possess any Voidstones, and if you are a party leader, you may not start combat without Voidstones.



Tripling the effect of cell items.
The team had been looking into making it so the cell items could be held in stacks of 99; however they encountered a number of problems and discovered that this would not be possible to accomplish. Instead, we are going to increase the effect of the item and adjust it so that 1 use of the item will max out the alignment.


With these adjustments participating in the content should be easier than before.
The vulnerability and alignment system will remain as is, but we will follow up on this with campaigns after April and look into further adjustments to the cell items. For the moment, we would like to see how these adjustments affect game play.

It doesn't seem like you guys are able to grasp the problem at all. These proposed solutions are almost worthless. We have spelled out, on numerous occasions, what the problem is and have basically given you a bevy of acceptable solutions to rectify the problem. I, for one, don't understand why you guys completely ignore almost everything we say and then proceed to concoct these mediocre "solutions" that almost nobody is satisfied with. Please stop. You guys aren't making this any better.

[Kincard]

These changes do help actually, but only during capped light campaigns. The amount of time people had to spend running around town for VW was a huge deterrent because it significantly lowered the efficiency of farming HMP yourself versus just farming gil from Dynamis or something and then just buying the plates whenever they're up. Also the fact that some of you ran into antisocial jerks hogging the pop spots despite there being basically 0 downside to teaming up shouldn't really be SE's issue, there's nothing they can do about dicks being dicks.

I agree they should make hitting weaknesses less of a pain in the ass (or just make it so that hitting a single weakness will cap lights instantly) so VW is actually worth doing outside the campaigns, and an increased drop rate would be very much welcome, but you people acting like this won't help at all are really coming off as just looking for an excuse to throw a tantrum.

[BurnNotice]

These changes do help actually, but only during capped light campaigns. The amount of time people had to spend running around town for VW was a huge deterrent because it significantly lowered the efficiency of farming HMP yourself versus just farming gil from Dynamis or something and then just buying the plates whenever they're up. Also the fact that some of you ran into antisocial jerks hogging the pop spots despite there being basically 0 downside to teaming up shouldn't really be SE's issue, there's nothing they can do about dicks being dicks.

I agree they should make hitting weaknesses less of a pain in the ass (or just make it so that hitting a single weakness will cap lights instantly) so VW is actually worth doing outside the campaigns, and an increased drop rate would be very much welcome, but you people acting like this won't help at all are really coming off as just looking for an excuse to throw a tantrum.

Kincard, this isn't an effective solution. SE is recommending adjustments to make VWs convenient to save time traveling between spawn points and NPC and increasing the effect of the cells. Players will still have to proc to cap lights and still have to deal with the extremely low drop rate of upgrade items, which, isn't the trouble with Relics and Mythics. Even Aeonic weapon creation isn't as troublesome.

The suggestions are only somewhat good for VW campaigns, which won't happen often. Camate stated that increasing the drop rate would be difficult. Ok, so along with the other suggestions others mention in the forum, how about adding an additional slot that is dedicated to HMPs, HMP pouches, Riftcinders, and Riftdross. That way, we are looking at at least one of these items to drop with just about every other kill.

[Kincard]

I didn't say it was an effective solution, and if you'll notice I also mentioned basically all your points in my post as well. I'm just saying all the people who are acting as if this does nothing (even going as far as to say they shouldn't include it at all) probably have never tried farming HMP themselves, because if they did they'd know how helpful this is to people who bother farming.

Why do people who don't want RMEs farm Dynamis/Salvage for gil instead of VW? Because it's less annoying, and more time-efficient. This change has a big impact on the latter problem. Like I said, the weakness targeting does need changing of some kind to fix the former problem. The low drop rate though, would not be an issue if people actually did VW- then there'd be a supply which is the whole problem to begin with. There was plenty of HMPs flowing around during the campaign, so if they fixed the weakness targeting issue then that could potentially solve the supply issue. Remember that VW can be a big moneymaker to farmers not just because of HMPs, but also from reforging and certain crafting materials.

I doubt you'll get anywhere telling them to solve the problem of not wanting to increase the drop rate, by telling them to increase the drop rate. I mean, I don't particularly agree with their reasoning for not upping the drop rate, but I don't see how the solution is to throw your own version of mental gymnastics back at the devs.

[Stompa]

Reasons to buy your RME currency off the AH ; you're too busy to farm it, you're incredibly wealthy and want to treat yourself, the drop-rate is so soul-destroying that you can't bear to farm the content.

I would never buy relic/mythic/ergon currencies , unless I was super rich and wanted to treat myself. I can farm those currencies at a steady and reliable rate. If I put in an hour into those systems, I will always get a fairly predictable amount of currency back.

VW is different, because of the random chance of getting no items for your weapon. And the fact that it reloads again with the same chance of you getting the same fish and flowers as before. The fish, twigs etc. factor is why many people prefer to buy HMP/cinders. It is actually disheartening when you go on WAR and proc 100% lights and trade your cells and then get some fish and flowers. It makes you want to not do it again, even if the "do it again" option is now automatic without having to visit the trigger NPC.

[Alhanelem]

I would never buy relic/mythic/ergon currencies , unless I was super rich and wanted to treat myself.I don't see buying currency as "treating myself." I see it as making a long, eventually tiresome task shorter. Treating myself is buying an ice cream. I would not liken buying more RME currency to buying an ice cream. I am not and never was "super rich" but bought currency whenever I could because it sped up the process and for no other reason.

[Stompa]

I don't see buying currency as "treating myself." I see it as making a long, eventually tiresome task shorter. Treating myself is buying an ice cream. I would not liken buying more RME currency to buying an ice cream. I am not and never was "super rich" but bought currency whenever I could because it sped up the process and for no other reason.

We all have our own preferences. Mine is ; "I'm building a legendary weapon, I will farm the materials myself."

This means I can spend my gil on crafting, and helping LS friends with stuff.

So my base factory setting for RME mats is "farm it myself." My first Empy I farmed 1500hmp, did not buy a single plate, and it took me 2012--2015. The Riftcinder stage proved impossible to solo farm, as it is entirely luck based, I have bad luck, so cinders never seem to drop for me.

So my remaining Empys, I am going to buy the mats. Because my main job WAR, proc job, has spent half a decade proccing VW mobs, and going home with bits of flowers and stuff. This has killed my enthusiasm.

So while my normal philosophy for RME is to go and farm the mats myself, this is not practical when faced with a random drop system where unlucky people get punished. VW is like being reminded that I'm not very lucky. I don't feel <That way.> when I'm farming Relic or Mythic currencies, because those offer a basic drop rate where I will always obtain some currencies, and not go home with only bird feathers and tree branches, and cursing my misfortune!

[BurnNotice]

I didn't say it was an effective solution, and if you'll notice I also mentioned basically all your points in my post as well. I'm just saying all the people who are acting as if this does nothing (even going as far as to say they shouldn't include it at all) probably have never tried farming HMP themselves, because if they did they'd know how helpful this is to people who bother farming.

Why do people who don't want RMEs farm Dynamis/Salvage for gil instead of VW? Because it's less annoying, and more time-efficient. This change has a big impact on the latter problem. Like I said, the weakness targeting does need changing of some kind to fix the former problem. The low drop rate though, would not be an issue if people actually did VW- then there'd be a supply which is the whole problem to begin with. There was plenty of HMPs flowing around during the campaign, so if they fixed the weakness targeting issue then that could potentially solve the supply issue. Remember that VW can be a big moneymaker to farmers not just because of HMPs, but also from reforging and certain crafting materials.

I doubt you'll get anywhere telling them to solve the problem of not wanting to increase the drop rate, by telling them to increase the drop rate. I mean, I don't particularly agree with their reasoning for not upping the drop rate, but I don't see how the solution is to throw your own version of mental gymnastics back at the devs.

Understood, I see what you mean. :)

[BurnNotice]

Reasons to buy your RME currency off the AH ; you're too busy to farm it, you're incredibly wealthy and want to treat yourself, the drop-rate is so soul-destroying that you can't bear to farm the content.

I would never buy relic/mythic/ergon currencies , unless I was super rich and wanted to treat myself. I can farm those currencies at a steady and reliable rate. If I put in an hour into those systems, I will always get a fairly predictable amount of currency back.

VW is different, because of the random chance of getting no items for your weapon. And the fact that it reloads again with the same chance of you getting the same fish and flowers as before. The fish, twigs etc. factor is why many people prefer to buy HMP/cinders. It is actually disheartening when you go on WAR and proc 100% lights and trade your cells and then get some fish and flowers. It makes you want to not do it again, even if the "do it again" option is now automatic without having to visit the trigger NPC.

It's funny that you mention fish and flowers. Last 12 kills were nothing but mats. So, I can't I see how the team does not realize the drop rates for mats are extremely high over the require items needed to upgrade weapons.

[Stompa]

It's funny that you mention fish and flowers. Last 12 kills were nothing but mats. So, I can't I see how the team does not realize the drop rates for mats are extremely high over the require items needed to upgrade weapons.

I have fishing 110 and Ebisu, so the last thing I want to receive after fully proccing a VWNM is a load of sandfish etc. I just stand there thinking, I could be actually fishing instead of doing this VW, and I wouldn't be catching sandfish either!

:)

[BurnNotice]

I have fishing 110 and Ebisu, so the last thing I want to receive after fully proccing a VWNM is a load of sandfish etc. I just stand there thinking, I could be actually fishing instead of doing this VW, and I wouldn't be catching sandfish either!

:)

lol this is very true!

[Ladynamine]

I don't understand why they just don't add heavy metal plates, riftdross, and riftcinders to high-tier fights or bcnm's. It would seem to me that would be a lot easier to add to these fights. Plus it adds more variety to what you can kill to get them. You can put the singles Heavy Metal Plates in HKCNM's (at a lower drop rate) and SKCNM's based on difficulty, and put Heavy Metal Pouches on top of singles, Riftdross, and Riftcinders in the High-tier Mission Battlefield fights also based on difficulty of the fight. All of them can be exclusive to be lottery pooled at a low % rate with the droprate to increase on higher difficulties and only 1 type can drop (either a Heavy Metal Plate/pouch, riftdross, or riftcinder will only drop).

[Vae]

I don't understand why they just don't add heavy metal plates, riftdross, and riftcinders to high-tier fights or bcnm's. It would seem to me that would be a lot easier to add to these fights. Plus it adds more variety to what you can kill to get them. You can put the singles Heavy Metal Plates in HKCNM's (at a lower drop rate) and SKCNM's based on difficulty, and put Heavy Metal Pouches on top of singles, Riftdross, and Riftcinders in the High-tier Mission Battlefield fights also based on difficulty of the fight. All of them can be exclusive to be lottery pooled at a low % rate with the droprate to increase on higher difficulties and only 1 type can drop (either a Heavy Metal Plate/pouch, riftdross, or riftcinder will only drop).

You understand why, you just don't realize it. Square has never made any form of logic/balance in any of the 10 thousand decisions they make. They're always under the guise of "balance" but dude, seriously.

Things are the way they are because statistics say, that this particular idea will keep you paying money, and above all else, ffxi is a business.

[BurnNotice]

I see it like this: I would rather have the opportunity to make multiple end-game weapons that would keep me hooked to this game (i.e. the accessibility of making a relic and mythic) than to get burned out mid-way on ONE weapon midway because of the lack of resources and spending too much unnecessary time on it just to go from 90 > 95 > 99. This is the only end-game weapon system that needs to be balanced. BTW, just to get afterglow prior before update was 3,000 Riftdross/Riftcinders....Cumulatively speaking as a whole, no server could have possibly seen this number.

[machini]

I have roughly half the alex, tokens, and ichor for a mythic right now. I had been very enthusiastic about making Death Penalty. Now I'm not even gonna bother.

[BurnNotice]

I have roughly half the alex, tokens, and ichor for a mythic right now. I had been very enthusiastic about making Death Penalty. Now I'm not even gonna bother.

I say go for it. I seen a couple of people on my server with it and out damaging some of the most well-geared DD. It motivated me to even go for it and my COR is like lvl 50 lol.

[BurnNotice]

I hope we get another update on how SE will balance this issue. Also, would be nice to know when that VW campaign is coming back. The market is still dried up of upgrade materials and no one is going to waste time on less than rewarding content. :(

[machini]

I say go for it. I seen a couple of people on my server with it and out damaging some of the most well-geared DD. It motivated me to even go for it and my COR is like lvl 50 lol.

There's no point. I'll never be able to 119 III Terpsichore, let alone Terpsichore and Death Penalty, and I'm 99.99999999% the elitists on my server wouldn't take me without having it III'd.

[BurnNotice]

April update is coming up very soon. Any new updates? Also, any word on the VW campaign?

[BurnNotice]

Due to PlayOnline Login Technical Difficulties, I am unable to determine if the changes to VWs are worthwhile. However, I would like to comment on the idea of earning materials with the use of Hallmarks from Ambuscade. From what I am reading from other forums, people would be more interested in spending their Hallmarks on the new armor and JSE caps when available. I noticed that there are limits to how many materials you are allow to purchase from the NPC per month. It's a pretty decent and strategic idea. A small avenue to get items needed. What I would like to have seen is more done to VWs where 119+ content can be available and better drop rate in quantity and quality. Similar to how Unity NMs work.

But I will give this process a shot and see what happens from here. :)

[Keido]

Due to PlayOnline Login Technical Difficulties, I am unable to determine if the changes to VWs are worthwhile. However, I would like to comment on the idea of earning materials with the use of Hallmarks from Ambuscade. From what I am reading from other forums, people would be more interested in spending their Hallmarks on the new armor and JSE caps when available. I noticed that there are limits to how many materials you are allow to purchase from the NPC per month. It's a pretty decent and strategic idea. A small avenue to get items needed. What I would like to have seen is more done to VWs where 119+ content can be available and better drop rate in quantity and quality. Similar to how Unity NMs work.

But I will give this process a shot and see what happens from here. :)

Hardest part of Ambuscade winning the book battle.

[Castanica]

The only farmable items that are worth it are ones that you can't easily get anywhere else, if you have another way to access them that is still the best way.

Dynamis is the best way to get coins, salvage is the best way to get alex etc.