-AGAing the blm Fell Cleave

[Kingofgeeks]

so i was in a Fell Cleave party a while ago, but instead of a WAR using FC, it was one blm, he would run around grabbing all of the Taurus type mobs, manafont, then Aja the crap outta them till they died. After finding an isl he would run out and grab more to Aga. This was HIGHLY impressive and has sense been my ultimate goal in ffxi.

I know a lot of ppl will not condone doing this, but i can just imagin how benifitial it would be for me to be able to do this, for item farming solo, for getting solo merits, to kill time, or farming cruor. I took a few screenshots to remember what the blm wore:

Witchstone
Dark Ring with -phys atk mods
Ethreal Earring
Goetia Sabbots +2
Witch Sash
Serpentes Cuffs
Orochi Nodowa
Umbra Cape
Pluviale
Wyvre Hairpin (with refresh)
Terra Staff
Loq Earring
ASA Legs

This gear he used to gather the mobs. what gear he used to actually nuke them? i don't know.

Has anyone tried to Aga the way a war can Fell Cleave? does anyone have any advice on what i need (besides skill) to be able to do this?

[Alkimi]

I do this now and again, although you have to get a feel for just how many mobs is too many.

Best off just doing it on worms, a lot safer and they can be aspired. Or better yet join in the AoE WS burn and use the Cataclysm weapon skill. BLM can pull out some ridiculous damage with it.

[blowfin]

I know a lot of ppl will not condone doing this, but i can just imagin how benifitial it would be for me to be able to do this, for item farming solo, for getting solo merits, to kill time, or farming cruor. I took a few screenshots to remember what the blm wore:

Witchstone
Dark Ring with -phys atk mods
Ethreal Earring
Goetia Sabbots +2
Witch Sash
Serpentes Cuffs
Orochi Nodowa
Umbra Cape
Pluviale
Wyvre Hairpin (with refresh)
Terra Staff
Loq Earring
ASA Legs

This gear he used to gather the mobs. what gear he used to actually nuke them? i don't know.

Has anyone tried to Aga the way a war can Fell Cleave? does anyone have any advice on what i need (besides skill) to be able to do this?
There are some people who post on this forum who are way more experienced with AOE burning Abyss mobs than me, but here is what I know.

The best mobs to use are monk types (i.e. Tauri, Mandies, Apkallu) because of the way they attack its easier to reduce damage. You want to aim for a good -PDT set when you`re pulling and sleeping. You also want to use this set when you`re sleeping in between nukes. Buff up before pulling obviously, RDM is the superior sub for this because of Phalanx, Convert, Refresh etc. Use Mana Wall and convert at your discretion. Basically your cap will be 50% for -PDT, here are some more items that you could use in this build:

Items for the -pdt build:
- Earth or Terra Staff
- Dark rings from highlands gold chests
- Twilight Torque
- Jelly Ring
- D.Ring if you`re lucky enough
- Goliard Trews

AF3 feet are excellent for enhancing your Mana wall too.

And theres probably a few more things that Ive missed along the way.

[Kuwabaraone]

Well, to practice 'Fell Cleaving' as a BLM, start with the worm camps. Downside is they're mages too, so you'll need to have ManaWall if you don't want to die outright. But trust me, it CAN be done. Also, make sure you have -Ja Spells, or at LEAST Tier III -Ga Spells. Still amazes me that I can get up to 9 worms in La Theine with Ja Spells and Ga Spells...but enough of me. Just some practice with them is good, then work up to mandies and then you should be golden at that point.

KB1

[blowfin]

Well, to practice 'Fell Cleaving' as a BLM, start with the worm camps. Downside is they're mages too, so you'll need to have ManaWall if you don't want to die outright. But trust me, it CAN be done. Also, make sure you have -Ja Spells, or at LEAST Tier III -Ga Spells. Still amazes me that I can get up to 9 worms in La Theine with Ja Spells and Ga Spells...but enough of me. Just some practice with them is good, then work up to mandies and then you should be golden at that point.

KB1

I wouldn't suggest practicing with worms actually, even though they are fun to AoE burn. The mobs mechanics are a lot different (i.e. they don't move) and it isn't going to prepare you at all for a target that chases and actually hits you. I'd suggest starting with small pulls (1 or 2 mobs even) of monk type mobs and working your way up.

You are right about the spells though, you really do want a full spell list before you start doing this. Especially the -ja spells.

[Monkeynutz]

Monks are great since phalanx in particular will negate a much higher percent of damage than on mobs that hit once per round. The downside is that they have higher hp on average, and I think Apkallu have MDB or similar, but I forget. Maybe it would be good to start on chigoes. They hit fast but with enough damage reduction they shouldn't hurt much. Obviously slow mobs are good for this as well. Also, if you start getting hit too much and find that you can't cast, Manafont+Manawall+Sleepga II is pretty much idiot proof assuming you can get it all off.

[Kuwabaraone]

Monks are great since phalanx in particular will negate a much higher percent of damage than on mobs that hit once per round. The downside is that they have higher hp on average, and I think Apkallu have MDB or similar, but I forget. Maybe it would be good to start on chigoes. They hit fast but with enough damage reduction they shouldn't hurt much. Obviously slow mobs are good for this as well. Also, if you start getting hit too much and find that you can't cast, Manafont+Manawall+Sleepga II is pretty much idiot proof assuming you can get it all off.

True, for moving mobs, Chigoes would work best with Phalanx up. Tricky part is you can't target them until they hit you first. Slow mobs are also good to work on. I'd switch Manafont+M.Wall+SleepgaII with M.Wall+SleepgaII+M.Font though. M.Font at this point should be for emergencies. We can't match RDMs in Casting Spell just yet. :)

KB1

[blowfin]

M.Font at this point should be for emergencies..

Manafont is an essential tool, not just for emergencies, you want to be using it every pull if you can get the restore chests and/or revitalizers. The value of being able to cast for free when mobs are chipping away at mana wall is enormous, plus you won't get interrupted if you start taking damage. Solo it's worth staggering with sleeps, if you have any healing support though you can just go bonkers with nukes.

[Vicious]

You don't need healing or Sleepgas; pull your mobs, run to camp, Manafont > Manawall > nuke away. If you can't kill them in the time it takes for the mobs to bash their way through 2 Manawalled MP pools + your HP, your nuking set is nowhere near strong enough to pull this off. Sleepgas just waste Manafont time.

[blowfin]

You don't need healing or Sleepgas; pull your mobs, run to camp, Manafont > Manawall > nuke away. If you can't kill them in the time it takes for the mobs to bash their way through 2 Manawalled MP pools + your HP, your nuking set is nowhere near strong enough to pull this off. Sleepgas just waste Manafont time.

It's more atmas and a good -pdt set that make the difference, but yeah, pretty much.

[Vicious]

It's more atmas and a good -pdt set that make the difference, but yeah, pretty much.

Atmas are obviously a part of your nuking set, and PDT gear is unnecessary.

[Mojo]

Use Atma of the Ultimate, Atma of the Minikin Monstrosity and Atma of the Ducal Guard. Cast Stoneskin/Phalanx then start pulling. Gather stuff up then you can start nuking, but chances are your Stoneskin will break before you get a nuke off. When you're HP falls below 50% (before cruor buffs, so around 540 for me as a hume BLM with HP merits) then you automatically receive 50% PDT (when Ducal Guard kicks in.) You'll be taking mostly 0s at this point so you can nuke in any gear and it works out quite well. I like to activate Manawall at this point then Sleepga > Stoneskin > Ja > Sleep > Ja > Sleep etc. You can kill every MNK type mob in any zone this way without any trouble. Tavnazian Tacos are good for this too.

[blowfin]

Atmas are obviously a part of your nuking set, and PDT gear is unnecessary.

Plenty of ways to skin a cat buddy, and it's not like you can't fit Sleepga into a Manafont cycle.

[Vicious]

Agreed, but some ways are faster than others; and given that aga farming doesn't speed up repops like single-target killing does, the speed at which you can drop them is pretty important. Besides, what's the point of Sleepga? They fire at about the same speed as a -ja nuke, so you're taking the same amount of hits whether you decide to alternate Sleepgas and nukes or just spam nukes. Ionno about you, but I'm gonna go with killing faster.

[blowfin]

Besides, what's the point of Sleepga? They fire at about the same speed as a -ja nuke, so you're taking the same amount of hits whether you decide to alternate Sleepgas and nukes or just spam nukes. Ionno about you, but I'm gonna go with killing faster.

I think it comes down to the situation really. I'm a fairly well geared BLM. I have my full nuking atmas, and I have over 30% PDT to idle in. However I still found that I couldn't keep up with the damage on some pulls (Taurus camp at Vunkerl for example) and throwing a sleepga in there gave me enough time to pop meds, rebuff. All that stuff. More of a choice between eating dirt and sleeping the mobs, not killing them faster.

Maybe size of pulls is different too, if you're getting by without a PDT set then you can't really be getting hit that hard to begin with.

[Vicious]

The only PDT gear that is necessary is Movement Speed + for pulling; nothing should be hitting you until you're at camp and have activated Font+Wall. I don't know if size of pulls is different, but 20+ is no problem with my strategy. The key is killing them as fast as possible to limit how much damage you take; between Protect/Stoneskin/Phalanx, a functionally quadrupled HP pool, FastCast/Elemental Celerity/Magian+2 staves, and optimal damage gear/Atmas, it's pretty hard to mess up... and that's before we factor in the ridiculous meds you have access to. But again, the key to this is killing as fast as possible, which means no wasting time on Sleepgas, no wasting time recasting buffs.

And Mojo, Ducal Guard is a waste of an atma for this. If you absolutely need PDT-50% to survive somehow, it's easily achievable through relatively common gear, and the damage gear you forgo to wear it pales in comparison to the damage you add with another nuking atma.

[blowfin]

The only PDT gear that is necessary is Movement Speed + for pulling; nothing should be hitting you until you're at camp and have activated Font+Wall.

Well that's probably why I like my -pdt gear right there. I don't really have any movement speed gear to use on BLM unless I use ambition Atma, which is a waste of a nuking slot. Probably time to redo my ASA pants and set them with movement speed and -pdt. Doesn't look like any relief is in sight for an alternate to gaiters.

Regardless, I don't see any reason to not be carrying and idling/pulling in a -pdt set.

[Vicious]

Yeah, without movespeed enhancement PDT-% for the pull is absolutely necessary, as would an initial Sleepga to recast Stoneskin before commencing with the nukes; my apologies for overlooking that detail. Personally I use ASA pants with Movespeed/Haste, as it's easy enough to cap PDT with other slots and Haste is hard to come by on mage leg armor. (Screw you and your double turban drops, Ultima) As long as the mobs run at normal speed, the difference between 8% and 12% is negligible for this purpose.

I only meant to state that PDT gear is not necessary to pull this off with optimal gear, as there's no idling being done when using the strategy I outlined.

[blowfin]

Yeah, without movespeed enhancement PDT-% for the pull is absolutely necessary, as would an initial Sleepga to recast Stoneskin before commencing with the nukes; my apologies for overlooking that detail. Personally I use ASA pants with Movespeed/Haste, as it's easy enough to cap PDT with other slots and Haste is hard to come by on mage leg armor. (Screw you and your double turban drops, Ultima) As long as the mobs run at normal speed, the difference between 8% and 12% is negligible for this purpose.

I only meant to state that PDT gear is not necessary to pull this off with optimal gear, as there's no idling being done when using the strategy I outlined.

No worries man, I just think it's pertinent to put things in context for people or you'll have a bunch of folks out there eating dirt and wondering why. You're obviously doing something different than me and it's good to know what those differences are and what advantages they give.

Just to clarify an "idle" gear set is really just a term for a gear set to use when you're not casting. So -PDT, Refresh, MDB, whatever you can fit in there really. Some people (including me) opt for an item of Igqira in there to proc. curses on the mobs. Generally speaking it's pretty common practice for people to have this macro'd around their spells so it's equipped the instant they're done casting.

[Miiyo]

I do this in all my exp party. I like to do it /sch mana wall first and then manafont. (just manafonting may get you killed if you don't immediately sleep after which i'm too lazy to do so. I just like to wreck havok.) blizzaga3 + alacrity firaja + alacrity aga3 again and you have death of about 5 mobs at least. for 7 or more i suggest a 2nd blm for sleepga or weaken one or 2 mobs before the slaughter begins. It's FUNNY seeing people just sitting there wondering what to do in an exp party and you're doing this cause mobs are dead before they can do anything.

[Mojo]

The only PDT gear that is necessary is Movement Speed + for pulling; nothing should be hitting you until you're at camp and have activated Font+Wall. I don't know if size of pulls is different, but 20+ is no problem with my strategy. The key is killing them as fast as possible to limit how much damage you take; between Protect/Stoneskin/Phalanx, a functionally quadrupled HP pool, FastCast/Elemental Celerity/Magian+2 staves, and optimal damage gear/Atmas, it's pretty hard to mess up... and that's before we factor in the ridiculous meds you have access to. But again, the key to this is killing as fast as possible, which means no wasting time on Sleepgas, no wasting time recasting buffs.

And Mojo, Ducal Guard is a waste of an atma for this. If you absolutely need PDT-50% to survive somehow, it's easily achievable through relatively common gear, and the damage gear you forgo to wear it pales in comparison to the damage you add with another nuking atma.

I'm actually quite curious as to how much thought you really put into this. You're giving up Atma of the Beyond, which is 30 MAB 30 Ice Potency (or 50 MAB if you have Hell's Guardian which is better for this anyways.) I'd like to see what gear you plan to cap PDT with that doesn't result in losing more than 30 MAB or 50 MAB (Ice Potency is somewhat irrelevant as ja spells are better than Blizzaga III.)

Your method will work well in situations where you have Manafont, although you won't always have it for every pull depending on what you're doing (I often immediately begin pulling again while people leeching EXP or whatever start opening boxes.) The bulk of the time investment for cleaving is pulling mobs anyways. The time it takes to cast an additional three Sleepga spells is quite small in comparison, it's not really a big issue at all.

[blowfin]

I'm actually quite curious as to how much thought you really put into this. You're giving up Atma of the Beyond, which is 30 MAB 30 Ice Potency (or 50 MAB if you have Hell's Guardian which is better for this anyways.) I'd like to see what gear you plan to cap PDT with that doesn't result in losing more than 30 MAB or 50 MAB (Ice Potency is somewhat irrelevant as ja spells are better than Blizzaga III.)

You dont give up any MAB or INT for PDT gear, I use 36% -PDT in gear and dont sacrifice any nuking power. It should be macrod around your spells. Nuke at full strength, switch into PDT gear between spells.

Hes right, Ducal Guard is a waste.

[Mojo]

I idle in PDT gear like any other good BLM, it's not like I hadn't thought of that, but if you're nuking in non PDT gear and Manafont/Manawall aren't up you will get interrupted.

If you're relying on boxes to restore your 2 hours, then you obviously will not need it, but otherwise it's often essential and that situation occurs more regularly than I think you might admit.

[blowfin]

I idle in PDT gear like any other good BLM, it's not like I hadn't thought of that, but if you're nuking in non PDT gear and Manafont/Manawall aren't up you will get interrupted.

If you're relying on boxes to restore your 2 hours, then you obviously will not need it, but otherwise it's often essential and that situation occurs more regularly than I think you might admit.

I guess so, I've never used Ducal Guard on BLM though (and I have it for BST). If I ever did see a reason to use it I'd be swapping it out as soon as lights were capped. Then again, If you don't have enough Azure to be getting ISL chests you probably should be hunting Ephs to cap anyway, which is usually a 10 minute exercise at the most.

Each to their own though.~

[Vicious]

I'm actually quite curious as to how much thought you really put into this. You're giving up Atma of the Beyond, which is 30 MAB 30 Ice Potency (or 50 MAB if you have Hell's Guardian which is better for this anyways.) I'd like to see what gear you plan to cap PDT with that doesn't result in losing more than 30 MAB or 50 MAB (Ice Potency is somewhat irrelevant as ja spells are better than Blizzaga III.)

See above; you only have to wear your damage gear when the spell fires, not during the entire casting time. Besides, you're the one insisting you need PDT- gear to pull this off; I'm the one telling you that you don't, so asking me to defend your points is kinda silly.


Your method will work well in situations where you have Manafont, although you won't always have it for every pull depending on what you're doing (I often immediately begin pulling again while people leeching EXP or whatever start opening boxes.) The bulk of the time investment for cleaving is pulling mobs anyways. The time it takes to cast an additional three Sleepga spells is quite small in comparison, it's not really a big issue at all.

Fanatics are a nice backup in those rare cases you don't see an ISL; if you find yourself without either (which in my experience is maybe once an hour?), it's pretty easy to fall back on the Sleepga method until another ISL/Fanatics drops. As for the second part... I'm not sure I can respect your logic there. If you're comfortable with using halfassed tactics to just do "good enough", which is evident by your Atma choice, our goals, and therefore our strategies, aren't really comparable.

[Mojo]

See above; you only have to wear your damage gear when the spell fires, not during the entire casting time. Besides, you're the one insisting you need PDT- gear to pull this off; I'm the one telling you that you don't, so asking me to defend your points is kinda silly.

Except that this isn't right. Unless you're using spellcast and went through fine tuning a midcast delay for every single ja spell that you have (which I doubt anybody ever has,) you're going to have to manually change gear in the middle of your cast if you want to keep your PDT gear on as long as possible. Server latency and human error will result in either you casting in your PDT gear or getting hit a few times without it, and really that's all that it takes to interrupt your casting. Even with spellcast swapping and finely tuned midcast delays, your gear, server latency would still kick in a good portion of the time (a fraction of a second is all it takes with 20 mobs hitting you.) Also, in case what you posted wasn't just an attempt to skirt around an obvious fallacy you posted, I'll make it a bit more clear for you.


If you absolutely need PDT-50% to survive somehow, it's easily achievable through relatively common gear, and the damage gear you forgo to wear it pales in comparison to the damage you add with another nuking atma.

This is you claiming that you can easily cap PDT through gear while giving up less nuking power than a single atma.


I'm actually quite curious as to how much thought you really put into this. You're giving up Atma of the Beyond, which is 30 MAB 30 Ice Potency (or 50 MAB if you have Hell's Guardian which is better for this anyways.) I'd like to see what gear you plan to cap PDT with that doesn't result in losing more than 30 MAB or 50 MAB (Ice Potency is somewhat irrelevant as ja spells are better than Blizzaga III.)

This is me asking you to substantiate that claim.


Fanatics are a nice backup in those rare cases you don't see an ISL; if you find yourself without either (which in my experience is maybe once an hour?), it's pretty easy to fall back on the Sleepga method until another ISL/Fanatics drops. As for the second part... I'm not sure I can respect your logic there. If you're comfortable with using halfassed tactics to just do "good enough", which is evident by your Atma choice, our goals, and therefore our strategies, aren't really comparable.

You do realize that even with Ducal Guard over Beyond, you can still pop Manafont/Manawall and ja everything in one additional nuke than you would have otherwise? If you've cleaved on any job even once you should know that this amount of time investment is completely negligible. It's also somewhat ideal to think that every pull is going to be so simple. Many times it turns into a battle with other groups over mobs in which Ducal Guard becomes even more handy. It's not half assed by any means. Simply relying on luck, i.e. ISL/Fanatics/clear pulling weather all the time, is perhaps a better definition of that. It's pragmatic. Giving up a 12.3% marginal gain (or less depending on your merits) in lieu of something that can be extremely useful is not a bad trade off.

[Vicious]

Except that this isn't right. Unless you're using spellcast and went through fine tuning a midcast delay for every single ja spell that you have (which I doubt anybody ever has,) you're going to have to manually change gear in the middle of your cast if you want to keep your PDT gear on as long as possible.

Adjusting the midcast times on 4 -JA spells and Blizzaga III would take ~5 minutes of testing/editing.


This is me asking you to substantiate that claim.

Sorcerer's Earring? I figured it was rather obvious..


Simply relying on luck, i.e. ISL/Fanatics/clear pulling weather all the time, is perhaps a better definition of that. It's pragmatic. Giving up a 12.3% marginal gain (or less depending on your merits) in lieu of something that can be extremely useful is not a bad trade off.

As I said, in the off chance you don't get an ISL/fanatic's from a pull, you can just roll Sleepgas on the next until one of them drops. All that PDT- nonsense tends to be completely unnecessary if you utilize proper strategy, which means nuking Sleepga'd mobs from max distance, starting your run early, running until able to cast again. It IS a bad tradeoff, because if you're doing it right in the first place, regardless of whether you're using JA/meds or not, you are simply not getting hit nearly enough to ever be in enough danger to warrant wasting an Atma on defense.

[Dhragon]

So, just for the sake of asking. I should choose the 3 highest MAB atmas that I have? I recently had to lvl my Blm (due to lack of access to a Blm most of the time) and I'm still working on many gear options. But, I wanted to make sure that I'm maximizing my atma options also.