View Full Version : Nerf Beastmaster
Lonnan
02-19-2016, 11:10 PM
Well it was fun feeding while it lasted but it's wearing thin so here ya go. Close range between pet and it's target it is fighting. You can continue to say it isn't so but clearly not always the case. Should be noted that with tiger I'm fairly certain that would've been close enough because of the way it changes based on different sizes
https://bucket.bluegartr.com/7a22e008cc377bf76ed37665e110f58b.png
How dare you use actual evidence to refute Ulth's story about some guy he knows who killed something once. We all know that SE would never nerf a job ability, break it that job ability, then ignore it...except for when they do (Modus Veritas says hi.)
While most of us would love the nerf to be undone, all the BSTs posting on this thread are asking is that the range issue be fixed because it is clearly broken.
The OF is a cesspool of trolls who care nothing about improving the game but are insistent on ruining the experience for everyone else because something was once taken from their favorite job or they are just so impotent in their real life that they need to flex their interwebz muscles to feel alive. Here is a hint, breaking one job does not make your job any more playable or desirable. In a game where every player can max level every job on each character, why are people so bent on ruining jobs that isn't their favorite? Nerfs help no one and only succeed in taking away options for content that is badly designed and driving off players from an already dwindling player base. If you want your favorite jon to be better start suggesting ways to improve it instead of trolling every other job trying to make the game that much worse.
Lonnan
02-19-2016, 11:17 PM
That's some pretty damning evidence, lol. I'm kinda curious how the hell they're fighting from that far apart, or how far apart it actually is... I know you can't show that in the screen shot, but the distances were?
Pet to player?
pet to target?
I think the distances look exagarreted because of the camera zoom and the angle. I can tell you that I've never seen a familiar or a VE auto hit something that wasn't less than 7 yalms away.
dasva
02-20-2016, 12:04 AM
That's some pretty damning evidence, lol. I'm kinda curious how the hell they're fighting from that far apart, or how far apart it actually is... I know you can't show that in the screen shot, but the distances were?
Pet to player?
pet to target?
Yeah was hard trying to get an angle that showed all 3 at once that didn't look crap.
Pets don't really run up all the way on mobs instead they get close enough to hit and stop which is somewhat dependent on each ones sizes combined that with the variable nature of readying and it gets harder to gage when fighting multiple mobs or switching jugs/mob sizes.
Pet to player was about 5.2. Pet to target didn't really judge but probably a little over 7
So what you are saying is SE should reduce the range that pets can auto attack from?
What we are saying..... If we are hitting the stupid mob, our JA's should be able to fire 100% of the time. We shouldn't have to power mash our macros and run around our pet and "hope" our pets JA move will fire.
At present its very random. The distances vary by the size of your pet and the size of what you're fighting. Also JA's do not work then you pass beyond 90 degrees from your pets face so you can't use pet abilities when standing behind a conial charm nm.
SE needs to make BST work correctly so we can move on to the other things that could use adjustments. Anyone posting from this point forward that doesn't have a 99/119 BST and a working understanding of why this is not working as intended should be forced to play BST for a year in its current frustrating flippantness!
That's a perfectly acceptable answer, and impossible to implement, I can already see the post.
BST JA should work as long as you are actively attacking the enemy, however our dev team can't possibly code that, so no-go. I basically promise you there will be a range increasing item.
What we are saying..... If we are hitting the stupid mob, our JA's should be able to fire 100% of the time. We shouldn't have to power mash our macros and run around our pet and "hope" our pets JA move will fire.
At present its very random. The distances vary by the size of your pet and the size of what you're fighting. Also JA's do not work then you pass beyond 90 degrees from your pets face so you can't use pet abilities when standing behind a conial charm nm.
SE needs to make BST work correctly so we can move on to the other things that could use adjustments. Anyone posting from this point forward that doesn't have a 99/119 BST and a working understanding of why this is not working as intended should be forced to play BST for a year in its current frustrating flippantness!
I don't think you know what random means. Pretty sure the goal was to force masters to stand close to their pets so they couldn't avoid conal attacks or other forms of AoE. I admit I didn't know it got smaller with smaller pets and generally only watched really close with randy, but it does make sense if your pet takes up more space the distance would be bigger.
Anyway in all seriousness I am also against the change to range. Just tired of hearing how it's the worst thing that ever happened to bst ever. It's not, people have already found away around this minor inconvenience and are soloing ridiculously again. I think if they just rolled back that nerf and rolled back the buff that let pets use ready moves without tp everything would be fine. If pets actually had to tp they couldn't full time damage taken sets acting as the tank and main source of damage, but it could still be an option pets could tank, or they could be maxed out as DDs. Bst set ups would still work just one bst would have their pet be the tank and the others could be the DDs.
I would be fine with a new JA being added that functions similar to avatar favor, in that there is a tradeoff. I'd accept lower pet damage in exchange for a range like we previously had, while the JA effect was active.
dasva
02-21-2016, 04:33 AM
That's a perfectly acceptable answer, and impossible to implement, I can already see the post.
BST JA should work as long as you are actively attacking the enemy, however our dev team can't possibly code that, so no-go. I basically promise you there will be a range increasing item.
I believe the answer was well if we change it from targeting the pet to targeting the monster then what if you aren't in line of sight and it fails... makes sense except with how low distances are just having something between you and the mob to block line of sight probably puts you too far away
Xenorex
02-21-2016, 07:52 AM
I don't think you know what random means. Pretty sure the goal was to force masters to stand close to their pets so they couldn't avoid conal attacks or other forms of AoE. I admit I didn't know it got smaller with smaller pets and generally only watched really close with randy, but it does make sense if your pet takes up more space the distance would be bigger.
Anyway in all seriousness I am also against the change to range. Just tired of hearing how it's the worst thing that ever happened to bst ever. It's not, people have already found away around this minor inconvenience and are soloing ridiculously again. I think if they just rolled back that nerf and rolled back the buff that let pets use ready moves without tp everything would be fine. If pets actually had to tp they couldn't full time damage taken sets acting as the tank and main source of damage, but it could still be an option pets could tank, or they could be maxed out as DDs. Bst set ups would still work just one bst would have their pet be the tank and the others could be the DDs.
Doesn't quite work that way, in an all-pet party, whichever pet is the highest DD, that pet is also the tank.
Xenorex
02-21-2016, 08:04 AM
Pretty sure the goal was to force masters to stand close to their pets so they couldn't avoid conal attacks or other forms of AoE.
Probably not their intent at all. Unless all jobs were forced to stand next to the paladin/tank with the same discomfort that bsts experience with getting that range perfect in order for their ws to go off as well. Everyone gets hit by conal attacks from now on and we're fair again....
That sounds like an accurate description of trick attack. Anyway if you have an another player as a tank then you don't have to worry about it as the conal attacks will hit the tank and not you and your pet.
If user counts were at 2005 levels and you could depend on a large linkshell for support on content instead of pugs that make you want to eat lead paint and pound your head on the wall, then yes, we could have ideal situations falling like rain drops on our perfect little day; however, this is 2016 and user counts are laughable at best and most of the time we are still forced to solo content because of necessity frankly.
There is no logical reason our job abilities shouldn't work, regardless of our position around a mob as long as we're in hitting range of the stupid mob. If I am in hitting range of the mob, my JA's should work 100% of the time, period. SE wants us 'in the fray' well quite frankly the only people expected to be eating conial damage are solid tanks and in reality if the BST is doing their job damage wise, their pet is going to tank a great deal of the time. Forcing the BST to move from behind a mob (where everyone else is, letting the tank-pet eat the conial damage/charm/etc) to in front of the stupid pet and run around and mash JA macros until it fires, then run back behind the mob.. It's functionally retarded.
To borrow from your analogy, it'd be like THF's sneak attack only functioning when your in front of the mob, forcing you to use it and then run behind the mob to hit and trick attack only works if your 21 yalms away from the mob, then you can run to your desired tank to sink the hate. Oh and mug only works when you're standing at a 90 degree angle from the mob your fighting but only on a full moon otherwise you have to use steal first while standing directly in front of the mob or your mug will be blocked. (God help us if they decide to be cruel and implement any of that lunacy lol!)
Some things are just plainly stupid. The way JA's mal-function for BST now, is one of them.
If user counts were at 2005 levels and you could depend on a large linkshell for support on content instead of pugs that make you want to eat lead paint and pound your head on the wall, then yes, we could have ideal situations falling like rain drops on our perfect little day; however, this is 2016 and user counts are laughable at best and most of the time we are still forced to solo content because of necessity frankly.
There is no logical reason our job abilities shouldn't work, regardless of our position around a mob as long as we're in hitting range of the stupid mob. If I am in hitting range of the mob, my JA's should work 100% of the time, period. SE wants us 'in the fray' well quite frankly the only people expected to be eating conial damage are solid tanks and in reality if the BST is doing their job damage wise, their pet is going to tank a great deal of the time. Forcing the BST to move from behind a mob (where everyone else is, letting the tank-pet eat the conial damage/charm/etc) to in front of the stupid pet and run around and mash JA macros until it fires, then run back behind the mob.. It's functionally retarded.
To borrow from your analogy, it'd be like THF's sneak attack only functioning when your in front of the mob, forcing you to use it and then run behind the mob to hit and trick attack only works if your 21 yalms away from the mob, then you can run to your desired tank to sink the hate. Oh and mug only works when you're standing at a 90 degree angle from the mob your fighting but only on a full moon otherwise you have to use steal first while standing directly in front of the mob or your mug will be blocked. (God help us if they decide to be cruel and implement any of that lunacy lol!)
Some things are just plainly stupid. The way JA's mal-function for BST now, is one of them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4cLUzu0uGw
LOL!
I'm sorry you have a hard time understanding why actual BST players are upset, I really am. I know from an outsider's perspective you see JA's going off but you do not understand how many times we have to re-position and continually hope they will fire and don't.
But this is a tired subject of trying to explain the broken nature of current BST to people that do not play the job and can not comprehend. Please, go play the job on relevant content and then come back and post, anything short of that is trolling.
SE community rep - the Dev team needs to reevaluate the horrible lack of consistent functionality of BST JA's post nerf. Please assist!
Seems to me actual BST players don't care and just run in and out a lot. Or are they not true Scotsmen?
Honestly Ulth, its frustrating.
When you run in, you cant just run up beside your pet and hit the macro once and have it work every time, even minding the valid comment about lag location you mentioned before, you can hit the macro several times and nothing happens... other times it fires and everything works fine.
It's inconsistent to a point of frustration which is where I think most of us who were/are full time BST get upset and the hair starts standing up on our necks.
If it was consistent and we knew we could just stand in front of our pet and the monster and it would 'always' fire within 1 second of getting into position, it wouldn't be nearly as bad. But there are times when we're having to run around, literally, in circles around the pet trying to find a good spot when the JA's will fire.
If I'm not going to engage on a fight, which isn't that often, I've taken to the tactic of running an ellipse around my pet hitting the macro a min of three times as I run around and there are times it fire's once I'm beside my pet and others as I'm on the other side of my pet preparing to depart on the ellipse.
Additionally, if our pet gets touched by anything it stops attacking the mob we sent it against and runs across the screen after whatever hit it.. nearly as quickly as our pet does this we cant reward or use any other JA and have to chase down our pets in an emergency, especially if it happens right after we sent our pet on a mob, it's beyond frustrating.
SE needs to fix this by removing the line-of-sight garbage with our pets... if we're within 10 yalms of the radius of our pet, our JA's should function... if they did that then granted if we're fighting a behemoth or something larger we still would be out of range behind the mob but we could come within 10 yalms of our pet and function again. This wouldn't fix the issues of eating conial damage or charm but at least having our JA's function again would be in the right direction.
SE did not need to change our playstyle but since they have, they really need to make it function more effectively.
dasva
02-22-2016, 10:31 AM
Guys you should really stop feeding the troll. He's always just going to say what is happening isn't for the sake of attention.
Plus I think the issue has kind of been beat to death. In the end most of the last several pages come down to those that play with the job at least semi frequently saying how hard it is to get the pet moves to work because they often have to hit macros several times and hope for the best. Others see people still killing stuff and assume everything is working perfectly fine 100% of the time
Guys you should really stop feeding the troll. He's always just going to say what is happening isn't for the sake of attention.
Plus I think the issue has kind of been beat to death. In the end most of the last several pages come down to those that play with the job at least semi frequently saying how hard it is to get the pet moves to work because they often have to hit macros several times and hope for the best. Others see people still killing stuff and assume everything is working perfectly fine 100% of the time
Funny how the meaning of troll has somehow just devolved to someone who disagrees with you. Anyway YES the issue has been beat to death. It happened in September and for months I just sat idly waiting for all you bsts who threaten to unsubscribe to do it and stop whining on the OF. I thought it would be over for sure when a certain poster of the fecal variety was banned for several belligerent threads about it, but no. But yeah, stop the whining. You are all annoying. Things aren't as easy as they were before the nerf? You don't say.
He does kinda have a point. No matter how much you complain, not a damn thing is going to change, and you know it.
Time to bluwagon or pupitup.
He does kinda have a point. No matter how much you complain, not a damn thing is going to change, and you know it.
Time to bluwagon or pupitup.
Already did transition to PUP but regardless I keep a spark of hope that SE will restore BST... we'll see what happens someday heh.
dasva
02-23-2016, 01:45 AM
He does kinda have a point. No matter how much you complain, not a damn thing is going to change, and you know it.
Time to bluwagon or pupitup.
Idk it was all this complaining that got it to happen in the first place... and I mean now it really is broken. That said I was already transitioning to pup way before this was even announced for well anything not requiring AoEs just because autos are so set and forget it's amazing for multi boxing
Might resurrect my blu. Was certainly one of my faves but SOA made it so much harder to keep up while also trying to do any other job. Jk rng full speed ahead. Just finished the alex portion of my Gastraphetes. Trueflight all the things
zeroryoko
03-21-2016, 09:23 AM
Nerf BLU, Nerf SAM, Nerf BLM they are all to powerful. BST has been maligned and ignored by Squeenix for so long, and suddenly it is good again, and everyone cries that it is to strong. You never hear the call to nerf party popular jobs, only jobs that can go it alone
I understand your anger, trust me. I also don't want other jobs ruined at this stage of the game. SE should undo the horrible adjustment to distance by making a new JA (similar to avatar's favor in concept) that when in effect it lowers pet dmg output but you get 100% restored pre-nerf-distance and when it's not in effect you get the mess we have now.
Nerf BLU, Nerf SAM, Nerf BLM they are all to powerful. BST has been maligned and ignored by Squeenix for so long, and suddenly it is good again, and everyone cries that it is to strong. You never hear the call to nerf party popular jobs, only jobs that can go it alone
Dude, nerfSAM was a common complaint for a looooooooooooooooooooooooong time. Nerf bard rotations was a complaint for a looooooooooooooooooong time. Jeez, it was barely a year ago that people were screaming 24/7 to nerf rudras all day every day. If it's not their favorite job, they're going to complain something else is more powerful. ALWAYS. Just because you don't pay attention to it, doesn't mean it isn't happening.
Outcry for nerfs/buffs is a constant thing, since day 1, until day last, there will always be complaints for nerfs, because square has no concept of actual balance.
See what *actually* needs nerfing is the absurd elemental damage changes. It's by and large the most broken thing square has ever done, but wheres the nerf for that?
No one asks for solo friendly jobs to get nerfed, they nerfed bst because it was being used in groups to completely overpower everything with zero effort. When bst was soloing abyssea content the nerf cries were only because they took so damn long to do it, not because they could do it.
Of note though, the distance changes to indirectly nerf beast, is the most ridiculous nerf square has ever done. It's absolutely insane. Completely ruins the spirit of the beastmaster.
Of note though, the distance changes to indirectly nerf beast, is the most ridiculous nerf square has ever done. It's absolutely insane. Completely ruins the spirit of the beastmaster.
Agreed, its a shame that I retire the game today frustrated with my favorite job but I got a good run in the last decade of gametime so I appreciate the game SE made but again such a shame they ruined how BST played after it having always been this way. <take care Vana'Diel>