What would make you return to ffxi? (if you left and came back for the free access) [Archive]

Castanica

08-12-2015, 02:02 AM

Obysuca

08-12-2015, 02:13 AM

Tbh, one of the things that'd make me stay is mostly about players. It feels like people do content once and never again. I've come back for this free access and the last one and loved XI, even resubbed after the 1st one, but then I realize, unless the 2 friends I have that still play are on, there really isn't much to do, especially when theres 0 shouts (unless you can speak JP) and even if you shout for things, no one's interested.

I'd love to get back into XI and do some of the new content, but I've been cockatrice blocked because no one has a reason to redo the older delve or vagary, so I can't get the stuff to be able to do the new content (missing every hit is not fun). It feels like somewhere in the last few years, SE went from "make all content relevant so people continue to do it" to XIV's concept of "make content that's throwaway so if you missed it, you're out of luck". Which is pretty sad and is a horrible way to get/keep players.

I'd say after November, you'd think XIV could support XI so we could still get some sort of content, considering XI supported XIV for however many years, but then again, XIV's not doing as well as people think, so I guess that's not an option. Just seems kind of cheap to charge $13 a month still when they have no plans to add anymore content after November. SE pretty much killed XI themselves by saying that, because I know a lot of people who won't come back due to no more updates but still being charged.

It won't happen, but what would really draw me back to XI is if it was still how it was back in the day. When you always had stuff to do and people to do stuff with, even if it was just lvling a job to 75.

Ulth

08-12-2015, 05:28 AM

I've actually told SE the reason why I still play FFXI in a survey they wanted me to fill out after dealing with their customer service. The reason I still play is because I have friends who play. That being said a lot of the fun of this game is playing it with your friends. However when any of my friends who don't play it ask if I recommend it I tell them I don't, and the subscription fee is too high. I would love for them to be on the game so we could play together, but I don't feel right roping them into an addiction that costs 13 bucks a month.

Midnitdragoon

08-12-2015, 07:41 AM

To me is always been about the community and people. It's what made ff11 so great. The issue in having nowadays is that with trusts ppl just want to solo everything. Don't get me wrong... Trust are a wonderful addition to the game but just feel that it's making ppl antisocial.
Lots of my friends would love to give ff11 try but they always ask when or if there will be a graphics update to the game. They'd love to play if the graphics had the next gen feel.

Draylo-

08-12-2015, 08:13 AM

What would make them return is a higher population and for the game to be popular again, which is very unlikely to happen. People like to place the blame on Abyssea or Adoulin or Insert thing I don't like here, but its a lot more complicated than that. It's an old game and one that its Developers didn't care to invest in its future. People like to play things that are popular to fit in, when something is unpopular you get the effect we see now where anytime FFXI is brought up its constantly bashed (check out the Facebook page for FFXI and any youtube videos.) Sad fact is that SE could have prevented their so called "PS2 Dev kit" situation but they didn't. They are banking on all they need is FFXIV and they and putting off FFXI onto Nexon for their mobile POS. Unfortunately, its way past the time to salvage anything unless they do go back on their word and say they are planning to continue updates. They have the money and the resources but its all up to them.

Stompa

08-12-2015, 10:28 AM

I paid subs every month since 2004, with the exception of the months when SEAMS was having payment problems and not accepting my money, those are the only months I did not pay for FFXI in eleven years.

I don't want or need discounts, I am happy paying the full subs. I love the world of Vanadiel, and FFXI is the best computergame I've ever played in my life. When I pay the FFXI subs it is my submission of respect to the game. It is the same as if a workman does a great job re-bricking a wall in my house, and he charges me a low rate, I will pay him extra and add a substantial tip if I think he did a good job and behaved professionally. If a product or service is good, it deserves to be paid for. The subs we pay for FFXI are keeping the game alive, so if you love FFXI it makes sense to keep paying for it.

I am staying because my heart is in Vanadiel. My life would not be the same at all if I couldn't see my Tarutaru, my automaton, and my pet mog-garden sheep, Rameses. When I finish work every day, I look forward to logging into Vanadiel, chatting with my in-game friends, pwning some monsters and doing some fishing. This is part of my daily life for over a decade, and I would miss Vanadiel terribly if I couldn't go there anymore. That is why I am happy paying subs every month, so that I can continue to log-in and have fun with my friends in the world that I love.

Castanica

08-12-2015, 08:59 PM

Alhanelem

08-13-2015, 12:58 AM

I would return on a more permanent basis if they either reduced the sub fee (seeing as content updates are going to stop), or reinstated the FFXI+FFXIV discount. It's a money thing for me, nothing else.

Ulth

08-13-2015, 01:29 AM

Group discount wouldn't hurt either. Lots of people play with their family.

Draylo-

08-13-2015, 01:35 AM

I have no idea why they got rid of that.

Billnes

08-13-2015, 05:43 AM

I left (again) 2 months ago. I came back for the free access this time again but I can't see myself playing very much this time, because I have no intention of re-subbing considering what I'll be paying for (a game with a death sentence).

So my question is this, if you did come back what would make you want to stay? These free access fortnights are an obvious lure, but if the line isn't strong enough they won't be reeling in much money from them.

For me, I would want either continued full development (Yoshida even said that the key to longevity for an mmo is CONTINUED DEVELOPMENT), a very cheap sub or free access system with a cash shop selling cosmetics. I like my waifu, yes I would buy outfits to dress her up! the point is, either I'm paying for good updates on a game with a long-life or I'm paying for cosmetics. I ain't paying for nothing because you think we are suckers.

These very regular free access fortnights show that they still want XI players money, they just don't know how to make us stay and/or don't want to spend any money to that end.

Money to me is of little concern, I'm playing a f2p game right now. I spent well over £200 last month on it buying outfits for my characters, I still refuse to pay £12 sub for a game in the state XI is in. Mainly, it's the principle.

The idea of Rhapsodies was a spectacular flop imo, it did far more damage than good to this game. when you say you want to end the game with a spectacular ending, you still just said ending.

Make me want to stay Square, I still have the desire to play it but you need to offer a better deal than you are offering right now.

I know what the player numbers are like on this game now, so more agree with this mindset than you obviously assumed would. Do something about it before it's too late.

Dear Castanica,

To the best of my understanding, the development team, the executives at Square-Enix and some people here in the forum with the technical chops to do so, have written several posts on this subject: Writing new content for Final Fantasy XI requires Playstation 2 Development Hardware. As the years go by, there are fewer and fewer working development units that Square-Enix can acquire. To the best of my understanding: At one time, SONY placed a recall notice to developers. SONY wanted to destroy as many of these units as they could to prevent them from getting out to unauthorized parties. Again, to the best of my understanding: The SONY PS2 Development Kits, are very large, (40 Lbs.) feature extremely-highly customized circuit boards, (making them difficult, if not impossible to repair) boot very slowly, have limited RAM, use an old, obscure OS and are difficult to ship because of their weight and extreme fragility.

In my humble opinion, I believe that trying to emulate the functionality of the PS2 Development Kit, even using today's modern hardware would be extremely difficult or even impossible. The original SONY hardware appears to be too heavily customized. I also believe that not enough people outside of the Computer Science field understand that with emulation, you're asking software to do a job that was originally intended to be done by hardware. I simply don't think it's a viable option for Square-Enix to invest in attempting to rebuild hardware built by SONY.

Playstation 2 Development Kit motherboard
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0nTeIU_pcfo/maxresdefault.jpg

ASSEMblergames.com on YouTube purchased several dev units that were still working. According to the videos voice over, they were purchased at liquidation, when Midway went bankrupt. If you watch the video carefully, you can see that it works on Red Hat Linux 5.2 Apollo. The dev kit requires two monitors. The first one to enter Unix commands and write the actual code. The second monitor is an NTSC resolution monitor (low resolution) that's used to view how the finished game code is playing. Until a username & password is entered into the Unix side of the system, the NTSC monitor shows a splash screen. The video shows that the dev tool has a CD/DVD-ROM drive and can be put into "Retail Mode" via a code entered at the command line. I'm going on the presumption that just like the Debuggers Unit, this tool would not be able to play DVD movies, even if it was in "Retail Mode".

Watch the first video from Assembler Games here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kccYmfQfbTo).

In another YT video, ASSEMblergames.com disassembled a dev kit to illustrate how heavily customized the dev kit motherboard is.

The next video can be seen here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nTeIU_pcfo).

The unit itself:
http://media.techeblog.com/images/playstation2devkit.jpg

Size comparison:
http://www.hostingbytes.us/images/2/567372.jpg

I hope this helps. I assure you that I made every effort to write this article as clearly and concisely as humanly possible.

Best Regards,
Uncle Billy
Long Island, New York

Draylo-

08-13-2015, 06:04 AM

That doesn't matter Bill. They clearly have enough money to create boring flops, why can't they invest in an MMO that was their bread winner for years? It would bring back much larger returns than their 100th failure game or mobile game.

Stompa

08-13-2015, 07:08 AM

I'm glad you're happy but you didn't read the topic title.

I did read it, and I tried to reply in the only way I could. I never quit the game, I was unable to play for a while during C&B era etc. and I came back as soon as I could and I was actually very happy that my money was being accepted in the SEAMS payment page.

Your post is basically talking about what would make a person stay in the game, if they came back, what would make them pay to play the game. I replied to that, as it applies to me, I am staying because I love playing FFXI, and I don't mind paying the subs, so the free trial doesn't matter to me. I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear in my last post.

I have said before, in one of these previous identical threads, I agree with a slight lowering of subs in 2016 and beyond, as there is no new content, it makes sense to lower the subs slightly, or at least restore the XI/14 bundle offer. Although that wouldn't affect me, as I don't play 14.

And also I'm able to afford normal monthly FFXI subs as they are not expensive, and for the monthly subs I get many, many hours of happy and thrilling gaming. So I don't see the "free play" as important to me personally, I think FFXI subs are good value, for such an awesome game.

Castanica

08-13-2015, 07:12 AM

Well.... You can't deny that it's at least a part of the issue.

It's none of the issue, if Square wanted they could get around that since they no longer support the ps2 anyway.

The point was, they didn't want to spend any money to get around it. Yet they still want to charge FULL PRICE while offering a vastly inferior service.

They even considered f2p but again, didn't want to spend the money to change the game.

Alhanelem

08-13-2015, 01:03 PM

It's none of the issue, if Square wanted they could get around that since they no longer support the ps2 anyway.

The point was, they didn't want to spend any money to get around it. Yet they still want to charge FULL PRICE while offering a vastly inferior service.

They even considered f2p but again, didn't want to spend the money to change the game.
That's because it doesn't make them as much money as people seem to think it does. Yes, it's profitable. But it's not profitable enough any more for them to jump through the necessary hoops to keep things going when their dev kits fail.

Castanica

08-13-2015, 04:53 PM

That's because it doesn't make them as much money as people seem to think it does. Yes, it's profitable. But it's not profitable enough any more for them to jump through the necessary hoops to keep things going when their dev kits fail.

That's because they don't know how to make it more profitable, there is nothing beside the company itself from stopping this game becoming very profitable.

With proper investment and not the horrible treatment the game has gotten over the last 5 years it would be very profitable.

Irregardless, trying to continue to charge a full sub when you have zero intention of developing the game is pure greed. This is still a bigger game than a lot of other titles that run right now.

kylani

08-13-2015, 06:59 PM

After being frustrated at work during the day due to a post on these forums, I came home, logged in to play, and realized the fun has gone out of the game. Logged into my crafters to get mog pells and logged out. I play a game to have fun, not be frustrated by a game when everything else in my life is great.

I checked facebook, and a friend asked if I had played FFXI recently. What timing... We left FFXI for FFXIV v.1 with most of our LS ages ago. As full of bitterness as I was, I couldn't knock FFXI to him. I've played quite a few MMOs, most of them with this friend (Vanguard, lotro, wow, guild wars 2, etc), but FFXI is without doubt the best MMO I've ever played. If anything, there is so much content, FFXI is overwhelming and hard to explain to someone who is thinking about coming back after being away several years. I ended up telling him some of the many changes that have been added, and he's going to download and give it a try. He sounded excited, even as I just don't have the heart to play... I wanted to warn him, but I also wanted him to see how great FFXI has become and enjoy it.

I've played this game for 11 years. This last time, my sons and I all signed up again. Our favorite jobs are PUP, PUP, and BST (me). My oldest realized end game would be too frustrating for him since PUP would probably never be wanted in end game, so he quit. My youngest and I agreed to avoid end game this time and just play the jobs we love, doing what we can, and we've had a fabulous time up till now enjoying working thru missions, content, job points, reforged and augmented gear as we could get it. I also love crafting as always.

I thought if we could avoid being sucked into end game and leveling other jobs over our favorites, we'd avoid the frustration of end game. I didn't realize the mentality of today had changed from if you want to do end game, level a DD, WHM, BRD, GEO, to if SE adds new content that, perish the thought, a job that has never been wanted in end game happens to be good at for a change, folks would cry to nerf the job so that DD, WHM, BRD, GEO are the only jobs wanted again. I've never ever asked for another job to be nerfed, and most definitely never asked for a basic part of a job that has existed since day one of the job to be changed. That the devs would even change a core mechanic vs. adjust the content thoroughly disgusts me that I can't get past it. I know I should. BST has changed plenty over the years and I used to roll with it, but the venom of player base after literally YEARS of disparaging BST and all the times I did play other jobs to play with friends because BST was limited with their setup has hit me hard. I didn't cry to nerf blm, mnk, etc so I could play BST when a blm could do a tier 1 nuke in skirmish for tons more damage than my poor sad pet. I hoped someday SE would fix BST. Now I just don't like to log in to the game and see other players anymore. It was a relief and pleasure to log out.

I don't think FFXI can ever appeal to the masses who want everything handed to them. A big part of FFXI is the richness of jobs and pure fun of story. No one wants to deal with having to figure out different setups anymore. I did Cop with our static (whm, pld, thf, drg, me (brd, rdm, bst as needed) when people told us Cop couldn't be done with our jobs. We failed often enough, but we figured it out and managed to win, and those wins are still some of my fondest memories.

I still love FFXI and think the devs have done a wonderful job in recent years. I just don't think it's possible to overcome the player base that has gotten worse faster than the game has gotten better, and I think sadly, this player mentality is the norm for most MMOs now.

Castanica

08-13-2015, 07:16 PM

The huge problem square has is they have big number mentality.

They don't seem to realize that the way almost every mmo is profitable these days is by feeding a niche, ffxi has an amazing niche but they are squandering it by tryting to copy the template that is failing to work on xiv.

As I said before if they just wake up and see how amazing this game is they could increase profits, sadly they will probably never do that.

They even have this idiotic mentality on FFXIV which is incredibly sad, both of these games could be much more profitable and they could take pride in them both. Instead they just see them both as embarassments due to lower player numbers than they would like and run them into the ground.

Please look at the mmo market square, you will never make another wow so stop trying to.

kylani

08-13-2015, 07:28 PM

After venting my frustrations, I realized that maybe SE is doing the right thing trying to have the game translated to a mobile app. Focus on making the game solo/duo/trio able. Cut out large groups altogether so that folks won't be as inclined to fuss about not being wanted.

Trusts are wonderful and seem to be getting better and better. Improve those to the point where Trusts are enough support for you and a friend or two to do most content. The fights are still fun and will require strategy. Just not a full party of cookie cutter jobs and a canned strat. Much as I used to love grouping, I think smaller groups of friends with trust support may be more enjoyable long term, and increase willingness to try new strategies if you can round out a party with trust jobs you need. People pretty seem to shout for the jobs they want today. Eliminate the need to shout. Grab friends, and go. :)

Krystal

08-14-2015, 12:13 AM

Castanica

08-14-2015, 12:41 AM

Oops... Perhaps I made a writing mistake. From the postings I've read here, all content, regardless of final platform, initially has to be written on the PS2 Development Tool. Once the new game data is written & bug tested, in Playstation2 form, it then has to be ported over to PC and XBOX360. Even if PS2 & XBOX support is dropped, SE still needs the PS2 Dev tool to write game code for PC. If I'm correctly understanding the postings placed here by the game devs, the only way to eliminate this would be replace the game's graphics engine. Replacing the game's GFX engine would require rewriting the client. IMHO, rewriting the game client would not be a good idea. You'd be making the game susceptible to all new bugs.

Point is, if they wanted to. They could redesign the dev system to work without the ps2 dev kits, the ps2 isn't supported anymore so they could make this work from pc development only. It's less of "we can't" and more of "we don't really care". I really wish there was a guy in charge of XI that cared about it and has passion for it.

It's not impossible, they just don't want to in the same way they were considering making XI f2p but didn't want to spend money changing the engine to incorporate the cash shop. If they can spend a VAST amount of money remaking FFXIV into a average success then they can spend some on XI to continue running it for the next 10 years too.

Alhanelem

08-14-2015, 01:15 AM

Point is, if they wanted to. They could redesign the dev system to work without the ps2 dev kits, the ps2 isn't supported anymore so they could make this work from pc development only. It's less of "we can't" and more of "we don't really care". I really wish there was a guy in charge of XI that cared about it and has passion for it.

It's not impossible, they just don't want to in the same way they were considering making XI f2p but didn't want to spend money changing the engine to incorporate the cash shop. If they can spend a VAST amount of money remaking FFXIV into a average success then they can spend some on XI to continue running it for the next 10 years too.
They didn't design the ps2 dev tool, it would be an astronomical task for them to design their own. There's just no way.

Olor

08-14-2015, 01:59 AM

If they don't nerf BST I will probably continue playing. It was actually seeing BST was good that brought me back. If they make BST suck again I don't think I will be around long. I have spent so much time on that job, loving that job when it sucked. It is just sad to see other players can't stand seeing people have fun on the job they love. We're so close to the end of the game and all people can think about is stomping on other people having fun.

Obysuca

08-14-2015, 02:17 AM

I really wish there was a guy in charge of XI that cared about it and has passion for it.

Well, there used to be :/ But it seems now SE only cares about XIV and not really caring about XIV itself, seeing as how all content since 2.0, even to 3.0, has been the same, and more caring about $$$.
I miss when companies cared for their mmo like it was their child.

Alhanelem

08-14-2015, 04:49 PM

Meyi

08-14-2015, 05:59 PM

If they remade a couple of servers that were capped at specific expansions (like RoZ + CoP, or ROZ + COP + TOAU) then I'd happily pay a sub fee and recreate an entire character to play all over again. Because there was something magical about xp parties that I really enjoyed and wish I could recapture again.

Edit: Or anything nostalgic, really. I love FFXI and I miss Vana'diel so much... yet every time I repay for a month's subscription I only log on a couple of times and find myself bored or saddened by the loss of exploration. Maybe that comes with an aging game. But I miss old Vana'diel very much. SE did a wonderful job creating a unique world that squashed all opponents in my heart. And now nothing can fill its void.

kylani

08-15-2015, 01:01 AM

There has been a lot of cool stuff in recent updates. The problem at hand really has nothing to do with lack of caring and everything to do with lack of resources (and we're not purely talking about money here). When I look over the recent patches, I see plenty of sign they care about doing the best they can with what they have.

I agree with you. To me, it seems the developers are far more responsive than they used to be. I'm amazed at all the changes because I felt like they'd give up on FFXI after 14, but it seemed to me like they have tried to get players back and made changes to help new players get in and catch up. I really do think the player base itself is the biggest problem with the game.

If a new player came in with friends, I think they would have a great time, except possibly for being overwhelmed at all there is to do in this game. :)

Obysuca

08-15-2015, 01:19 AM

but it seemed to me like they have tried to get players back and made changes to help new players get in and catch up.

>_> Stopping all content while still charging full price isn't how you get players back

kylani

08-15-2015, 01:48 AM

>_> Stopping all content while still charging full price isn't how you get players back

I think they tried and realize it's pointless. So now, they are doing what they can to finish up. I think it's good that they wanted to end with one last good content update before switching to maintenance mode.

I also think the game is well worth the money for new players because of the wealth of existing content, and they will be keeping the servers up and making QOL changes. Nothing says they won't reduce the cost a bit eventually. Right now, they are still producing content.

Alhanelem

08-15-2015, 10:42 AM

I do believe that given enough research time, man-hours & money, SE can do anything they wanted.You don't have any idea how much work it is to design hardware do you? They'd need to spin off a whole new company division devoted to the task. It totally wouldn't be worth the investment to redesign outdated hardware from the ground up for the sole purpose of delivering a new content update to a fairly low sub MMO (I'm not speaking about now, even at FFXI's peak it wasn't setting records). The game doesn't make THAT much money.

IMHO, you don't need a degree Computer Science. You simply have to look at the picture of the PS2 Dev Tool motherboard versus a retail motherboard.Sorry, you can't just look at a picture of a motherboard and then design a replacement. It taes a liiiiiiiiiiiiitle more effort than that;. And you're right, you don't need a computer science degree, you need an eletronic engineering degree. This message brought to you by someone that DOES have a computer science degree. COS majors don't design computer hardware, they design software. Hardware is the job of an engineer.

Zumi

08-17-2015, 04:06 AM

SE really needs to bring back the FFXIV + FFXI discount. Should be something like if you pay for FFXIV and you want to play FFXI you should be able to for a reduced price. Maybe 1 or 2 dollars extra should get you access to FFXI because you are already paying SE a lot per month for FFXIV.

Alhanelem

08-17-2015, 04:41 AM

Right now I'm trying to determine if you're trying to be snarky and sarcastic. Assuming you're not, you should know this is a discussion forum, you don't have to write your posts in the form of a letter.

The post was a reply to your post, hence why you were quoted. Perhaps I misunderstood the context of your statements? Your post is also confusing because you placed two quotes above your text. If you quote two people in a post, you should put the response to each under the respective quotes.

Draylo-

08-17-2015, 05:07 AM

You don't have any idea how much work it is to design hardware do you? They'd need to spin off a whole new company division devoted to the task. It totally wouldn't be worth the investment to redesign outdated hardware from the ground up for the sole purpose of delivering a new content update to a fairly low sub MMO (I'm not speaking about now, even at FFXI's peak it wasn't setting records). The game doesn't make THAT much money.

Sorry, you can't just look at a picture of a motherboard and then design a replacement. It taes a liiiiiiiiiiiiitle more effort than that;. And you're right, you don't need a computer science degree, you need an eletronic engineering degree. This message brought to you by someone that DOES have a computer science degree. COS majors don't design computer hardware, they design software. Hardware is the job of an engineer.

The game did make that much money, its one of their most profitable games to date. Try looking it up sometime before you make ignorant statements. Low numbers doesn't stop them from creating games that flop like a few of theirs have been. I can't imagine how doing an MMO that made them so much would be a bad idea. They could even go with another company like they did with nexus but for PC.

Selindrile

08-17-2015, 08:30 AM

A future or or free to play, one of the two.

Alhanelem

08-17-2015, 11:12 AM

The game did make that much money, its one of their most profitable games to date. Try looking it up sometime before you make ignorant statements. Low numbers doesn't stop them from creating games that flop like a few of theirs have been. I can't imagine how doing an MMO that made them so much would be a bad idea. They could even go with another company like they did with nexus but for PC.
Profitable as a percentage, yes. Profitable in terms of total raw cash, I doubt it. That only speaks to how poorly some of their other games have sold, not how much money it made them.

Try looing it up sometime before you make ignorant statements. This game is not generating enough money (anymore) to make that kind of investment. I don't think you know how much it actually costs to develop hardware. Perhaps if they've held on to every single dollar they've collected through the game's history, yes. But that is so unlikely it isn't even funny.

The cost-benefit analysis of redesigning a PS2 development machine would be astronomically bad. Have you ever heard of a cost-benefit analysis? It is essentially asking the question, "If I spend this much money on this, how much will I get in return?" It doesn't even matter how much money the game made, if they don't see a strong enough return on investment, they're not going to do it. You're living in a fantasy land (okay, the joke's on me I guess) if you think that investing probably millions in developing obsolete hardware in order to be able to promise new content updates past next spring is going to bring enough players back / gain enough new players to be worth the cost. I'm not even sure they got enough out of the expansion for it to be worth it, considering the lack of impact it had on player numbers even in the short term.

machini

08-17-2015, 12:07 PM

XI is their most profitable game of all time, the problem is that those profits went to fund garbage like XIII and XIV, money which should have been funneled back into XI.

Draylo-

08-17-2015, 12:47 PM

Profitable as a percentage, yes. Profitable in terms of total raw cash, I doubt it. That only speaks to how poorly some of their other games have sold, not how much money it made them.

Try looing it up sometime before you make ignorant statements. This game is not generating enough money (anymore) to make that kind of investment. I don't think you know how much it actually costs to develop hardware. Perhaps if they've held on to every single dollar they've collected through the game's history, yes. But that is so unlikely it isn't even funny.

The cost-benefit analysis of redesigning a PS2 development machine would be astronomically bad. Have you ever heard of a cost-benefit analysis? It is essentially asking the question, "If I spend this much money on this, how much will I get in return?" It doesn't even matter how much money the game made, if they don't see a strong enough return on investment, they're not going to do it. You're living in a fantasy land (okay, the joke's on me I guess) if you think that investing probably millions in developing obsolete hardware in order to be able to promise new content updates past next spring is going to bring enough players back / gain enough new players to be worth the cost. I'm not even sure they got enough out of the expansion for it to be worth it, considering the lack of impact it had on player numbers even in the short term.

Your entire post is contradicted by XIV's very existence. That game failed MISERABLY, and is still recovering the losses. They rebuilt that game from scratch yet you are saying because something has low numbers (XIV 1.0 did) it can't ever get a large amount of subs due to a rehaul, that is completely false by this own company's history. If the price to be paid was starting over, I'm sure a lot wouldn't mind if it meant XI still got updates and life. They could also outsource the project, just like they are doing with the mobile XI they are trying to make. You think they just make that to appease people? They probably have the silly thought it will be a huge hit, maybe in Japan but nobody really wants to play a MMO on a phone.

Alhanelem

08-17-2015, 02:22 PM

Your entire post is contradicted by XIV's very existence. That game failed MISERABLY, and is still recovering the losses.There's no contradiction here. Maybe your own facts should clue you in on just how much it costs to make and maintain an MMO. Your facts are also out of date because that game is no longer failing miserably, and last I checked, is profitable. But this is all totally beside the point and has nothing to do with the thread anymore. You know nothing about designing hardware. It is in no way feasible for SE to invest time and money into recreating an antiquated piece of hardware (What they should have done years ago and now probably cant since it would be a multi-year undertaking most likely, is port their code to be native on PC so that they could continue updating it) in order to continue.

We can argue all day about exactly how successful FFXI has been, how successful or not any other game has been, but that has absolutely zero to do with the original topic. To tie it in, porting the code to PC or doing something to enable updates to continue would certainly bring me back. However, that is not realistic, no matter how much you think it is. It might have been practical had they started doing it years ago- but it would take them a long time if they started it now. How long do you think the game can maintain a playerbase with no content updates while they redevelop the dev hardware? it is not realistic in any way shape or form today. If we were having this debate 2-3 years ago, I'd be more inclined to support your notion that it would be possible. Of course, if they did that, we probably wouldn't have gotten the SOA expansion when we did, since resources would have had to be diverted from that.
(I agree with you on one point: The phone version is a silly waste of time and while its outsourced, it's a waste of whatever resources were spent to make it happen, that could have been put to better use in just about any other way)

Vanfrano

08-17-2015, 04:06 PM

It has been said by others, FFXI was the game that brought them more money out of all the FF.

They had a steady cash flow but they didn't know nor want to keep it going and that is their mistake. They would never have created FFXIV if FFXI was not proof enough for them that the concept works but they failed terribly, and it seems like they are ending up failing again with 3.0. They have been creating beautiful empty shells since FFXIII with FFXI money instead of focusing on XI which could have been, to this day, their main source of money. Instead, they make people believe that FFXIV is a huge success and sent the "godlike" Yoshida to manipulate the whole fanbase. Even remaking FFVII is a desperate move. All they want now is to hit big, but they don't know how to do this. They are only looking for big fast income instead of a steady one but they will end up without FFXI and with a dead FFXIV sooner than they expect.

If they wanted to refresh FFXI they would have done it and they would still do it no matter the cost. They keep pouring games left and right looking for easy money.

Draylo-

08-17-2015, 04:13 PM

That's my point, if they wanted to do it they CAN. Money is hardly an excuse with this company when they pump out a lot of lackluster games that I'm sure cost a lot of money and effort in total.

There's no contradiction here. Maybe your own facts should clue you in on just how much it costs to make and maintain an MMO. Your facts are also out of date because that game is no longer failing miserably, and last I checked, is profitable

My information isn't out of date, I never said it is failing now but that it failed originally. Hence my next point where I used it as an example of how people (mostly sheep from WoW flocking to a game thats "popular") still subbed to XIV despite its terrible release and initial tiny playerbase when they charged for it. By your logic SE would have NEVER spend the money to redesign the game from the bottom up, instead they would continue servicing it like XI but that didn't happen.

How long do you think the game can maintain a playerbase with no content updates while they redevelop the dev hardware?

Just as long as the XIV players had to wait during 1.0? I was one of those players, hoping the game would change for the better and supporting SE. What differences does it make if people are waiting for something to come with no content updates or nothing to come with no content updates, there's still no updates.

Yeah I'll agree that the discussion is pointless, but then again so is practically any on this forum and many like it. Hopefully one of their guys sees it and passing the disdain the community has for their choice along to the DEVs, wishful thinking.

Alhanelem

08-17-2015, 05:22 PM

They had a steady cash flow but they didn't know nor want to keep it going and that is their mistake.That's not entirely true. The game had been gradually losing players over time for a long time. FFXI lasted far longer than they planned or intended. Just like any game studio making any other kind of game, they hoped to make more money with a new game (which, they probably will, though it certainly ended up taking a hell of a lot longer than they expected- but at least they learned you can't just spit a game out into the wild and expect it to perform) Wings and Audolin were both probably not originally planned in their early game planning- It's probable that their future plans at FFXI's launch went about as far as ToAU. It's pretty obvious in the large amount of recycling that started with Wings.

Every game has a lifespan, and perhaps at the time these decisions were made, they thought the lifespan was spent. (Obviously as the years went by, it's obvious that they were wrong)

Just as long as the XIV players had to wait during 1.0? I was one of those players, I was one of those players as well. The difference is FFXI is long out of the media's eye, so there is far less potential for attention and recovery. Admittedly, part of the problem with SE has always been marketing, and if they really tried in this area, they could pull something off. The hardest part by far would simply be convincing the corporate bigwigs that this investment is worth their time (which it is, I want to always be able to come back to XI and relive the memories; I'm just cynical I suppose about anything really going somewhere.)

As I said early in the thread, the biggest thing stopping me from staying back is money. XIV costs me less to play (with a legacy account) and it's sitll fun (for me, at least). XI is fun too, but it costs more for me to play. A dual discount would likely put me at paying only a little more than the cost of one MMO. And then I'd happily be able to keep both subs active and bounce back and forth as I feel like it.

wildsprite

08-18-2015, 02:09 AM

what would make me stay is a lower/better subcription model. but they already made it pretty clear we wont see that happen any time soon

my idea would be pretty simple
$9.99 USD(whatever this equates to in your own currency) per month and include the first 4 characters with that.
I'm certain that sub model/price change would get more subs and it would help SE get more money in the long run.

Omen

08-18-2015, 02:52 AM

What would make me come back long term?

1.) reboot all old content to 99+ (Sky, Campaign, Besieged, Sea, etc. etc.)
a.)Create an NPC that gives the best rewards in the game. (THE BEST) and all the rewards require the same currency to buy. This currency can be acquired from doing all the rebooted content and from the new content as well. (Motivate players to do different things!!! instead of just what the latest update pushed out like every other MMO out there) And the most important part of all this is a necessary evil....you have to make EACH item cost a butt load of currency so that a large portion of the population doesn't get all the gear in just 3 months or less.

2.) Bridge the gap between veteran players and new/returning players. ( the cancer of this game )
a.) The death of any game is when there are no new players entering a game. You have to make it so old and new players can PLAY TOGETHER EASILY to ACHIEVE THE SAME GOAL. Find a balance so new players aren't turned away at the gates from doing any content because they haven't been playing for the past year. This problem is usually remedied by having enough people in the same situation group together to leap over this hurdle. But if your a very small minority then finding each other can (and will) lead to rage quitting the game because you can't DO anything unless a veteran player extends a helping hand.

b.)How do you fix this? Have to motivate people...thats how. Maybe a large currency bonus on completion of content if someone is in the group that has never done the content before. 5x the current rate. Could even make a 2x bonus rate if you go complete the content with someone who hasn't done the content in a week or two. I'm sure a professional game designer can come up with something even better just as long as people are motivated to play with everyone and not just their small list of friends....and you know play online with people at a massive level...

Ulth

08-18-2015, 03:57 AM

Okay story time. I left ffxi a long time ago and only came back some time around when artifact was being reforged. I left because i wasn't having any fun. Nobody wanted to do anything, and I couldn't solo anything. What I really wanted at the time was the thief relic hands so I could be more useful on thief, only I didn't have any dynamis clears. When I asked about getting them done I was more or less told to level bst and solo them like that. Last thing I did in the game was the level 95 limit break quest. I had worked hard and solo farmed the items to make the rarab tail, but in the end I didn't get to use it and instead some bsts from my linkshell did the fight. They had me stand below the stairs and wait. I didn't even see the fight, it was a rather pyrrhic victory. That was pretty much the nail in the coffin that made me quit.

When I came back, I finished getting to 99, got myself the Espial set from RoE, and with that could solo all the stuff I couldn't before. I got all my dynamis clears, finished CoP and Zilart. Farmed sparks for chapters, and Sky for 109 reforged items to use and sell for gil. I made enough gil like that to buy the crafted artifact upgrade items, and then I had a set of 119 armor. Since then I've done all sorts of things finished WotG, ToAU, gotten all the delve clears, made a relic, made a mythic... I guess what I'm trying to say is it's not actually that hard to catch up, and they have added more to help since I did it.

Alhanelem

08-18-2015, 04:22 AM

2.) Bridge the gap between veteran players and new/returning players. ( the cancer of this game )Which is why I thought it was asinine to give active players a permanent 150% cap bonus ring and not give players that return from being inactive the same thing.

Draylo-

08-18-2015, 04:37 AM

Yes, I have no idea why they got rid of the discount for playing both games. The fact FFXI cost most is very silly, with the legacy discount that is.

Igi

08-18-2015, 11:26 AM

Which is why I thought it was asinine to give active players a permanent 150% cap bonus ring and not give players that return from being inactive the same thing.

This is exactly why I'm not playing right now. I was all set to pick up the expansion while it was discounted and start subbing again, but then I found out about all these temporarily available items with permanent cp bonuses (moghancement, kupofried trust, rings, etc). I'm far enough behind as it is without making a fraction of the cp active players get going forward. Just totally killed any motivation I had to play.

Draylo-

08-18-2015, 11:44 AM

Uh that ring barely lasts one pull of anything. You can get the one from sparks and its just as good and you can keep rebuying them. That's a silly excuse.

Vold

08-18-2015, 11:47 AM

The ring isn't so great that it should turn one off from even playing again. It lasts all of 10 minutes before it wears off and then you're waiting nearly 2 hours to use it again. It's a measly 30k exp. There's another 30k exp ring for capacity called capacity ring. It's got 7 charges 50% bonus and costs 5k sparks which are earned very easily with minimal effort. I wont bring up the one ring 11 charges that is only gotten once per year. There's bonuses to CP through RoE to boot. There's a mantle you can buy on the AH that provides 25-30% CP if you don't have a betterer mantle from incursion or whatever. You are upset over 1 extra measly JP every two hours, during double xp month. Just think about it for a bit and get back to us how terrible it is you missed out on it.

Right now this very second if coming back and earning exp is your thing, there is a double exp campaign going on. It seems to be a perma thing every 2 or 3 months or so. It's better than any ring bonus ever will be. I suggest you bring it and worry alittle bit less about 1 measly JP per two hours when each job has a 1200 JP cap. A 1 JP beef every 2 hours is an insignificant complaint compared to the 100+ you are sure to want. If you can find a group or form one then it's REALLY an insignificant complaint.

Igi

08-18-2015, 11:54 AM

The ring is only one bonus among several that are no longer available.

And sheesh, apparently the community has degraded quite a bit as well. You people are sensitive.

detlef

08-18-2015, 12:41 PM

The ring is only one bonus among several that are no longer available.

And sheesh, apparently the community has degraded quite a bit as well. You people are sensitive.Ha wow. You just got some good advice. Lighten up.

Alhanelem

08-18-2015, 01:00 PM

The ring isn't so great that it should turn one off from even playing again. It lasts all of 10 minutes before it wears off and then you're waiting nearly 2 hours to use it again. If you got them on mules, you can swap them out to circumvent the 2 hour timer. that's also aside the fact that you can still use the Capacity Ring while the other ring is down. It's still a permanent advantage, and breaks with the prior trend of offering limited-use boost items for the appreciation campaign. I would have been less bothered if that was the case. It's a fairness issue- They have even in the past had return home campaigns that gave the returning players the EXP ring from the previous appreciation event. So why didn't they do it this time?

it might not seem like a big deal to you, but it's the principle of the thing- it's simply unfair to returning players. I don't even know if there will ever be another oppertunity to obtain this ring, because events may well cease with the major content updates (Perhaps a community rep could clarify if the seasonal events will continue?)

Ulth

08-18-2015, 01:19 PM

There was just a second opportunity to get one, and there will probably be more after. Basically any time you get a red pell you can get it.

Draylo-

08-18-2015, 01:32 PM

If you got them on mules, you can swap them out to circumvent the 2 hour timer. that's also aside the fact that you can still use the Capacity Ring while the other ring is down. It's still a permanent advantage, and breaks with the prior trend of offering limited-use boost items for the appreciation campaign. I would have been less bothered if that was the case. It's a fairness issue- They have even in the past had return home campaigns that gave the returning players the EXP ring from the previous appreciation event. So why didn't they do it this time?

it might not seem like a big deal to you, but it's the principle of the thing- it's simply unfair to returning players. I don't even know if there will ever be another oppertunity to obtain this ring, because events may well cease with the major content updates (Perhaps a community rep could clarify if the seasonal events will continue?)

At that point you will say that anything is unfair since you've been gone. Sorry but people who subscribed come first over people who hop on for freebie time and then quit fast when its over.

Alhanelem

08-18-2015, 01:38 PM

At that point you will say that anything is unfair since you've been gone. Sorry but people who subscribed come first over people who hop on for freebie time and then quit fast when its over.
I might stay longer than freebie time if SE was fair to its playerbase. And I'm saying it's unfair because it IS. They're giving rather poor incentive for players to return.

So what you're telling me is, "#(%# you all non-currently-subscribing players, we don't want you here!"

My complaint is legitimate and I stand by it. Players who come back should be on a level playing field.

There was just a second opportunity to get one, and there will probably be more after. Basically any time you get a red pell you can get it. Didn't know about the red pell thing til after it happened and I didn't even know what the ring was until after I started the game up.

Draylo-

08-18-2015, 01:41 PM

Alhanelem

08-18-2015, 02:01 PM

How is it unfair? It's been like that since this game started, seasonal events which is where the ring came from (the anniversary.) The red mog pell included it but also included a lot of other items that were desirable. It was most likely a ploy to get people to sub just for the eligibility to get it, just like any other game or company does to bring in revenue. I don't see whats unfair here, especially considering this ring isn't that special. Yes you could have stored a bunch but that means you would have to keep going back to a dbox to get it, which would drastically lower your exp/hr considering how fast you get it now.
It actually hasn't been like that since the game started- As I stated previously, there have been cases where returning players were given the anniversary rings after the fact. They could have easily done that this time as well.

The ploy wasn't all that strong considering they listed a bunch of rings and items and didn't tell you what they did. some of the items were familiar but not all.

It irks me because the previous rings have all been temporary while this one is permanent and doesnt run out of charges.

Zumi

08-18-2015, 03:43 PM

Them rings with unlimited charges that give you exp and job points where gotten during one of the free weeks, I have both of them I don't know what you guys are arguing about.

Free weeks always seem to happen during major updates. Which is kinda nice cause even though we don't pay a sub anymore a lot of us old players still did pay them a lot of money in subs in the past and bought all those expansions so its nice that they less us play to do the new content.

Since half way through Seekers I pretty much only played during the free weeks, which is enough time to get all the story missions done in a couple hours and then you really have no other content to do that is the problem with FFXI. I got 1 set of 119 armor by soloing some ark angles I have no desire to grind more 119 sets that have pretty much the same stats more or less.

I think SE did a good job with 14 I can't seem to run out of stuff to do on there. With the Legacy sub on the 6 month plan its only $7.99 a month for 40 character slots. Compare that to FFXI which is still $12.99 + $1 per each additional slot. So why does FFXI cost more again? My whole FC on FFXIV pretty much are all former FFXI players we had the same linkshell so obviously SE did something right to get back their former FFXI players to play 14. They actually have the #2 sub mmo with 14 behind wow so they are doing something right. Seems to be a lot of hate toward the game from a lot of FFXI only players. If you play it a lot with your friends 14 can be a really fun game.

Draylo-

08-18-2015, 05:18 PM

bungiefanNA

08-18-2015, 05:21 PM

Would it make sense to do a cost-benefit analysis on buying broken PS2 Dev Tools in order make an attempt to have some spare parts on hand? In the YT video I saw, the voice over said that a lot of Dev Tools break because they were handled improperly during shipping. I don't know myself: How hard would it be to repair a cracked circuit board? I was under the impression that if the pathways aren't too tiny, there are methods for removing small areas of varnish from a circuit board, re-soldering the circuit and putting back new varnish. What about removing existing components from a broken board, manufacturing a new board and re-soldering the components to the recreated board?

Old single-layer double-sided breadboards, maybe. Current circuit boards, no. A cracked board is dead. They are multiple layers, and cannot be repairs, just melted down and remade by the robot that makes them in the factory, if one was still in operation, which they aren't. Components are much to small to desolder and resolder by hand quickly or reliably without a robot built to do so. Even that would assume you could diagnose which component was dead from a non-booting board, and that it was worth the time to pay someone to do so. Humans don't do this work anymore, it's at too small of a size.

Allestra

08-18-2015, 10:23 PM

Frankly, I think they should make it so anyone with an active FF14 sub should be able to play FFXI free of charge. Lets face it, FFXI is awesome but its also seriously outdated and not nearly as popular as it once was. By giving this feature to active FF14 players, it allows players who love both MMOs but don't want to pay for both to be able to enjoy both.

Or at the very least give active ff14 subscribers a discounted rate. Whose gonna want to fork out 14 some odd bucks for an older MMO when they are already paying as much for the better looking one.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that FFXI isn't great but its still one thing no one can deny: OLD and not worth the 14 bucks a month anymore.

Pretty much this in a nutshell.

I think the biggest factor to change is the subscription fee IF they want to encourage people to return on a more permanant basis. Would anything make ffxi really popular again?..imo no, its simply too late and the game was left unchanged for too long.

New players also come into the game knowing darn well its on its last legs...not a real big seller there is it.

Even though a fresh player would have oodles of things to do for quite a long time...they know its not gonna last and potentially they may even be on their own (the community is NOT what it used to be) Most times if you arent part of a long term established niche..you are SoL. Ppl will say hello sure, IF you initiate it every single time but thats as far as it goes. (thats the internet in general though and all gaming)
Many issues will deter people.

Sadly, what should of happened is a complete upgrade to the current game many many moons ago!!!!! , and equally as important, if SE would have stopped being so stagnant and stubborn for ANY QoL changes.

QoL changes should of started 6-7 years ago...at least!!!! The major decline would have not started in the first place. I saw a huge loss of players long before Abyssea and rightfully so.

Regarding a complete upgrade: Reading others ppl posts I understand that may not have been really too possible? im NO techie so I cant say but that could have been of one the biggest saviours for ffxi if it was possible.

We have ffxiv now , some adore it, others will hate it, so what? lol Ffxi was indeed their best bread winner, lets see 12 yrs from now if it still was before we trash any other game on the market.

I love aspects of ffxiv as much as some in ffxi. Im not so rigid and "stagnant" to be unable to enjoy a few games, each for their own strengths and weaknesses.
They all can be enjoyable but none are the best. not ffxi, not wow, ffxiv, rift or any others I dabble in. I dont think any are superior to any other , certain aspects may have an edge over another which is why I play a few at any one time.

Sub cost is certainly not a complete solution however, the game IS old, it looks old, it feels old, it plays old. (Thats just reality, and for some thats not reason enough to unsub <--- me included...but dont be blind, step back and look at the whole picture, thats is how it will be seen by new ppl) So se cant expect to appeal to vast numbers ever again. Its not going to happen in ffxi.

"come on back to this 10+ yr old game, yes yes its that old, no you may not get help, oh and more then likely there wont be any further content errr....sorry but nope it still costs the same, yes endgame community is as segregated as any other game yup, come on back ok?" :rolleyes:

Basically the most effective way to get return players : Appeal to nostalgia for vet returns, appeal to less $ for new people. A mix of both is the only solution thats probable

Alhanelem

08-19-2015, 02:08 AM

Except it isn't fun for everyone, its pretty much a WoW clone with FF skin. It has 0 similarities to how FFXI plays or how the item progression was (and is for most things.) If it was similar to XI, then they may as well have just made an XI-2. But they didn't want to do that, they wanted to make a new game. Also, FFXI is very different from the rest of the series, and other than part of the bestiary and the jobs, it has comparatively little connection to the rest of the series, whereas in XIV they've been putting in a lot of familiar things from the series' history.

Also the fact that they are dissimilar is what allows me to enjoy both, for different reasons. Which is why there should be a combo discount, to make this more financially feasible.

All of that grinding and then in the new few major patches its all reset and you can restart on that treadmill. You can't even play multiple jobs to end game things like Alex savage or you gimp your team because you must be forced into one job you spend your tokens on.This is full of crap, you can play all the jobs you want. You will have sufficicent gear for the jobs you play long before a new update comes. I'm already unintentionally capping out law and building up alex because I'm not in any big rush to spend them. Some people also make multiple characters, which don't cost extra in XIV, to circumvent those limits if they're that hardcore about playing every job.

FFXI has the same treadmills, they just work in a different way. Every MMO has to have some means of keeping you playing. We can say "just make more/better content" but that only gets you so far by itself. in XI you might not be constantly chasing higher item levels, but instead oyu're constantly chasing niche sidegrade pieces that people will call you gimp if you dont have, and then when you do get them, it just creates an inventory and macro swapping nightmare. So both systems have their pitfalls.

Draylo-

08-19-2015, 05:35 AM

If it was similar to XI, then they may as well have just made an XI-2. But they didn't want to do that, they wanted to make a new game. Also, FFXI is very different from the rest of the series, and other than part of the bestiary and the jobs, it has comparatively little connection to the rest of the series, whereas in XIV they've been putting in a lot of familiar things from the series' history.

Also the fact that they are dissimilar is what allows me to enjoy both, for different reasons. Which is why there should be a combo discount, to make this more financially feasible.

I know they didn't want it similar, which is why I don't get why someone would post "just play XIV." Why would anyone who likes XI instantly love XIV, when they are completely different was my point. FFXI has the same connections to the rest of the series like every other FF game. FF11 is also very similar to FF12. FF14 is similar to FF9 where it is overloaded with nostalgia but I find XIV to force most of it in my opinion.

This is full of crap, you can play all the jobs you want. You will have sufficicent gear for the jobs you play long before a new update comes. I'm already unintentionally capping out law and building up alex because I'm not in any big rush to spend them. Some people also make multiple characters, which don't cost extra in XIV, to circumvent those limits if they're that hardcore about playing every job.

FFXI has the same treadmills, they just work in a different way. Every MMO has to have some means of keeping you playing. We can say "just make more/better content" but that only gets you so far by itself. in XI you might not be constantly chasing higher item levels, but instead oyu're constantly chasing niche sidegrade pieces that people will call you gimp if you dont have, and then when you do get them, it just creates an inventory and macro swapping nightmare. So both systems have their pitfalls.

You must be a casual in that game and not play the highest tier, nobody is taking a gimped job into savage alex that you spent 0 tokens on. At this point there is no way you have multiple token gear for multiple jobs... Also lol at multiple characters, its the exact reason theres a job system in place, so that you can play everything on one character. Except that they lock you left and right, so my point still stands and is even confirmed by you saying to have another character.

FFXI does not have the same treadmills, only last patch was a LEVEL 30 ring dethroned for multiple jobs as the best TP ring. Gear is not outdated in FFXI like it is in FFXIV, you can grind hours and hours of your life for alex/coil/token gear and then its completely useless outside of glamor from the next major patch. Inventory nightmares only exist when you try to gear multiple jobs, but its part of the fun when you have a working setup for different jobs. At least you can keep that gear and enjoy it instead of just tossing it away or on a retainer forever. I'd rather have inventory issues than having to constantly be grinding gear over and over doing the same treadmill, smash face against 4 dungeons for tokens > do coil type event, maybe a crystal tower type > don't log in for a week.

Alhanelem

08-19-2015, 06:42 AM

You must be a casual in that game and not play the highest tier,I love the conclusions people jump to. No, I'm not a "casual." I've played and beaten every piece of content in the game other than savage alexander (which I've not started on just yet).

You're also oversimplifying your routine to the extreme and it doesn't sound much like you've played in a long time, but we can say pretty much the same thing about FFXI, since it has roughly the same amount of content that's currently relevant for endgame. Except instead of weekly limits, its 0.1% drop rates- Which might be better for people that are lucky, but I'm not one of those people.

FFXI does not have the same treadmills,Every MMO including XI has treadmills, just some games disguise them better. Every game including XI has players seeking things out that will make them more powerful- its the natural progression of an MMO character. The difference is in XI you have to keep everything, rarely do you outright replace a piece of gear, leading to inventory shenanigans. Horizontal progression isn't perfect, nor is vertical. Vertical progression hinders attachment to gear, but at least you don't need 87326483274 inventory space to store all your stuff. Conversely, in a more horizontal system you find a lot of things you can keep as useful, but it also makes true upgrades even harder to find and you have the inventory nightmare (and macro swapping nightmare) XI has treadmills, you can't say it doesn't, they just don't stick out as much.

Why would anyone who likes XI instantly love XIV, when they are completely different was my point.Because some people like a variety of different things? Just about everyone I know enjoys a wide range of different games in different styles even within the same genre. Just like I might enjoy both arcade racing games like Mario Kart and also enjoy racing sims- same base genre, but totally different play style. I'm honestly sick of the game bashing here. I don't scan through the FFXIV forums and see all this XI hating, so its evident to me there's a stronger bias on this side. I love both games, and I'd love to continue to play both games, though I wish they'd make it easier for me to do so, because 2 subscription MMOs = a lot of money. I feel like a troll target just for (gasp) admitting that I even play the game at all.

I've played both games, I enjoy them both, and I'm proud of it, I won't stand for being crapped on for it. The community here is incredibly hostile to the mere mention of ffxiv and it's shameful. Just because someone likes XIV doesn't mean they don't like XI, and it doesn't mean they're bad people.

Deirdre

08-19-2015, 07:47 AM

"Because some people like a variety of different things? Just about everyone I know enjoys a wide range of different games in different styles even within the same genre. Just like I might enjoy both arcade racing games like Mario Kart and also enjoy racing sims- same base genre, but totally different play style. I'm honestly sick of the game bashing here. I don't scan through the FFXIV forums and see all this XI hating, so its evident to me there's a stronger bias on this side. I love both games, and I'd love to continue to play both games, though I wish they'd make it easier for me to do so, because 2 subscription MMOs = a lot of money. I feel like a troll target just for (gasp) admitting that I even play the game at all."

Post a thread on the general discussion saying how awesome it would be to see a feature from XI be added to XIV :) I can promise you'll see a flood of it then.

Draylo-

08-19-2015, 07:58 AM

I don't scan through the FFXIV forums and see all this XI hating, so its evident to me there's a stronger bias on this side. I love both games, and I'd love to continue to play both games, though I wish they'd make it easier for me to do so, because 2 subscription MMOs = a lot of money. I feel like a troll target just for (gasp) admitting that I even play the game at all.

HA, no XIV players bash XI? Dude, have you been living in a cave? Go post anything XI related on GW feed and look at all the trolls surface, same thing if you post on the XIV official forums or any XIV related video. You must be dreaming on that one.

Except instead of weekly limits, its 0.1% drop rates- Which might be better for people that are lucky, but I'm not one of those people.

FFXI hasn't had 0.1 drop rates as a standard in the longest time, its YOU who hasn't played in a long time lol. The only drop like that is tartarus mail and some escha bodies, the rest is easily obtainable. Quite funny you mention XIV having no inventory issues, I seem to recall that being an issue over there with people needing multiple retainers.

Alhanelem

08-19-2015, 08:06 AM

FFXI hasn't had 0.1 drop rates as a standard in the longest timeSo that thread that a dev resoponded to about that item people want from vagary that has a .1% drop rate, that was just a figiment of my imagination? The major HNMs had their drop rates buffed? Last I checked, low drop rates are still a thing across most of the game. Sometimes supplanted with alternative methods (delve having probably one of the better ones)

HA, no XIV players bash XI? Dude, have you been living in a cave? Go post anything XI related on GW feed and look at all the trolls surface, same thing if you post on the XIV official forums or any XIV related video. You must be dreaming on that one.I didn't say there was none. There's definitely a lot less than there is here though. And in fact some XI related threads are sometimes received well.

I seem to recall that being an issue over there with people needing multiple retainers. If you keep every pebble, vegtable and ore you ever come across, yes you need extra retainers. You defintiely don't need them if you're a normal person who knows when to get rid of things they aren't going to need. The point here is that the most minimum amount of inventory and effort of mananagement (macros, etc) needed in XI is MASSIVE compared to XIV. Few jobs have any need for more than one gear set (Tanks typically have a set for +vitality and +strength, summoners might have a +vitality set in addition to a +int set), so there is little need to go home and move gear in and out of inventory. your base inventory is 100 slots, plus 25 slots per equipment category (25*13=325). Retainers hold 175 items each, and crystals don't take up normal inventory space. Even if you play every job and class in the game, you're far less likely to be having inventory issues in XIV.

Draylo-

08-19-2015, 08:10 AM

I didn't say there was none. There's definitely a lot less than there is here though. And in fact some XI related threads are sometimes received well.

Proof? I haven't seen anything XIV related on this site in a while and I frequent it, unlike you. You only post during free periods.

So that thread that a dev resoponded to about that item people want from vagary that has a .1% drop rate, that was just a figiment of my imagination? The major HNMs had their drop rates buffed? Last I checked, low drop rates are still a thing across most of the game. Sometimes supplanted with alternative methods (delve having probably one of the better ones)

I already said Tartarus Platemail, its one of like 5 items in the game with a very low drop rate. None of those items are so game breaking that you absolutely need them, they are more like trophies or slight upgrades to current easily obtainable gear. The major HNMs? wat.. If you mean Tiamat, herald gaiters was placed in a BCNM that is easy to get, can even drop two from one fight. Low drop rates are NOT a thing across the game, you need to go recheck whatever place you check for information.

Alhanelem

08-19-2015, 08:15 AM

Proof? I haven't seen anything XIV related on this site in a while and I frequent it, unlike you. You only post during free periods. I'm only allowed to post during this time. I'd very likely be posting all the time if I could. As soon as the free period ends I can't log in. That also doesn't mean that I haven't been subscribed for most of the game's history prior to this year. Apparently that doesn't count for anything?

Also, you're naive to assume that not posting is the same thing as not frequenting. I at least glance at these forums nearly every single day, even when I can't post. So no, it's not "unlike me."

I already said Tartarus Platemail, its one of like 5 items in the game with a very low drop rate.LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. There are only "like 5" items in the game with a very low drop rate? Have you ever done voidwatch? fought an HNM? Done any BCNMs? Mined or logged anything? Opened any chests in escha? What game are you playing? It's certainly not the same one I spent the better part of 10 years playing.

Draylo-

08-19-2015, 08:21 AM

Certainly not because you would have noticed the game has changed within the last few years, or maybe not since you have XIV blinders on. Hardly any VW items are useful these days, the ones that are you can buy the cells right off the AH. HNM aren't done anymore aside from KB... BCNMs today aren't the same as back then. What game are you even talking about at this point?

lol now you edit your post and add more silly examples, chests from escha? haha Mining and logging? LOL

Alhanelem

08-19-2015, 08:23 AM

Certainly not because you would have noticed the game has changed within the last few years, or maybe not since you have XIV blinders on.Oh, so you're name calling now. That's the foundation of a solid argument...

Yes, I've noticed the game has changed. However, most of the low drop rate items are still low drop rate items. No, I don't have blinders on, unlike some people posting in this thread. I haven't demonstrated any blindness to anything here. I've said repeatedly, many times I love XI. I still do. So why are you branding me an XIV worhispper with blinders on?

I have limited funds. I can't afford to subscribe to both. XIV is cheaper because I have a legacy account. That's pretty much the whole of it. It's part of what brought me to this thread in the first place.

Draylo-

08-19-2015, 08:25 AM

Alhanelem

08-19-2015, 08:28 AM

Putting aside our viewpoints on the drop rates, what point are you even making? None of that gear is necessary to play and do the content at all. You could complete like 75% of the content in this game simply using a standard 119 set gotten in a few hours. Compare that to FFXIV where you can't even step foot into some content w/o a certain ilevel. Well, I knid of wonder what point you're trying to make as well... The point I made was that there are pros and cons to both vertical and horizontal progression. Everyone here touts XI's horizontal progression, but it's not without its flaws. Said people also tend to bash XIV saying it's a treadmill and you cant get attached to your gear. But it also has benefits, like easier inventory management and less set-up required before you can actually play. typically in XI when I join a group for whatever content, they'll tell me they want X job. I go to my mog house, and like 10 to 15 minutes later my gear is moved over and I'm ready. And I'm one of the faster people. A lot of people need multiple mules to manage their gear and it can take them like 20 mins or more to get ready for content. In XIV I press one button and I'm ready. And I can press that button anywhere. The cost is that gear tends to be less interesting as there's less diversity of stats. Which is a fair complaint, but it doesn't bother me that much.

The ilvl restrictions on XIV content are easy to meet. You don't need weekly gated content to meet them. You can complete them using a standard tomestone set of gear gotten in a few hours. Hell, you can buy gear off NPCs to enter the "Expert" dungeons.

In preformed groups, many of those requirements can be removed, as well. The limits are there to help ensure a less-than-horrendous experience using the Duty Finder, so that people don't ruin your day by queueing up naked and dancing around like an idiot. In XI, those limits aren't really needed because there is no matching system. Again, there's pros and cons. I'm not wearing blinders. XI does some things better and XIV does other things better. What people like and don't like is subjective.

Herpaderp

08-19-2015, 08:50 AM

The only thing that would get me back to play this game would be to start a classic progression server like EQ and EQ2 have.

Alhanelem

08-19-2015, 09:05 AM

The only thing that would get me back to play this game would be to start a classic progression server like EQ and EQ2 have.
The one thing that would be least likely to get me back, personally,but I won't fight it as long as I don't have to play on it, even though it has great potential to divide and damage the playerbase.

I accept that games (Not even just MMOs) evolve and change over time, and I also accept that even if you bring old ways back, they're not the same as when you did them the first time, so other than to put on my rose colored glasses, I can't think of a reason to play on such a server.

Herpaderp

08-19-2015, 09:10 AM

The one thing that would be least likely to get me back, personally,but I won't fight it as long as I don't have to play on it, even though it has great potential to divide and damage the playerbase.

I accept that games (Not even just MMOs) evolve and change over time, and I also accept that even if you bring old ways back, they're not the same as when you did them the first time, so other than to put on my rose colored glasses, I can't think of a reason to play on such a server.

Pretty sure the people who would play on a classic server have no interest in the current game, especially one that is about to end updates.

Alhanelem

08-19-2015, 09:12 AM

Pretty sure the people who would play on a classic server have no interest in the current game, especially one that is about to end updates.
The progression server game wouldn't have updates either. So it would eventually end up just as stale as the current game getting no updates, making your point moot. People might come back for a few months or a year and then quit again because there's no new content updates. Because of that, I don't really see the benefit.

My reasons for not subbing right now are almost entirely money related.

Herpaderp

08-19-2015, 09:17 AM

The progression server game wouldn't have updates either. So it would eventually end up just as stale as the current game getting no updates, making your point moot. People might come back for a few months or a year and then quit again because there's no new content updates. Because of that, I don't really see the benefit.

Preferably, they would start the game at 50 cap pre-zilart, raise cap to 75, release zilart, release cop, etc.

Alhanelem

08-19-2015, 10:42 AM

Preferably, they would start the game at 50 cap pre-zilart, raise cap to 75, release zilart, release cop, etc.
Unlocking content as you go doesn't make that content suddenly new.

There's nothing wrong with it, it's just not going to be as wonderful as you envision it will be. I just don't see many old players coming back to re-beat everything they already beat before.

Draylo-

08-19-2015, 03:03 PM

Alhanelem

08-19-2015, 03:26 PM

Stompa

08-20-2015, 12:36 AM

Makes me shake my head every time. People overglorify the 75 days too much, theres still plenty of grinding if thats what you want. The only thing missing is the community (which admittedly I do miss having a lot of people) and waiting a month in a line for gear like homam and HNM drops...

I agree with this and your earlier posts in this thread.

FFXI today is more fun than ever, the QOL additions over the last few years have been awesome. FFXI has always been my favourite game, but if I felt it was less fun to play today I would just say so. We've got things like trans-job gear /lockstyles, all the transport books/HPs, RoV storyline, new battlefields, Trusts, job-tweaks, Jobpoints and Gifts, cool new novelty costumes, Vana'Clock, JSE capes, fun special-dial on gobbybox, etc.etc. These and countless other QOL / fun new tweaks that the Devs have added, have made the Best Computergame Ever into an even more fun experience to play.

I agree with the general points about missing the old days of packed servers, meeting new people from around the real world every day, those days were fun too. But they were tempered with the whole nine-hours-in-Selbina-with-your-flag-up factor. And the begging / kissing LS leaders to actually enable you to obtain gear / clears. So even though there was more people in the old game, there was less game fluidity, less personal mobility.

People who are not playing FFXI are missing out, this is not the funeral, this is the Golden Era when you can log in and just play the game without waiting and begging all the time lol. And the game is still awesome, the actual player-world engine is a masterpiece of skilled craftsmanship, the graphics are not new and shiny, but they are functional and beautiful in their own way. It is still an amazing gaming experience, and I do truly feel sorry for those people who are missing out on it.

Zumi

08-20-2015, 01:59 AM

Except it isn't fun for everyone, its pretty much a WoW clone with FF skin. It has 0 similarities to how FFXI plays or how the item progression was (and is for most things.) I don't know how you run out of things to do when there's 22 jobs and no not all equipment is more or less the same. There are very nice pieces of gear that can make a difference between winning something and not. XIV there's a lot to do? Spam the same 4 dungeons each week to cap tokens using the same combo over and over(at least in XI you can vary it with SC's and spells), then do alex if you can find a competent group and then... what? Do PvP? ha!

All of that grinding and then in the new few major patches its all reset and you can restart on that treadmill. You can't even play multiple jobs to end game things like Alex savage or you gimp your team because you must be forced into one job you spend your tokens on. In FFXI you can play any of the 22 jobs and its much easier to gear them and just play them. You can do things unconventionally (low man delve, soloing certain BCNMs, crazy builds to mess around with like NIN MAB or WHM holy sets, different setups for content) whereas in FFXIV you are stuck to the holy trinity of tank DPS healer.

You pretty much sound like a XIV purist so I won't bother getting into a huge debate with you but your post is so wrong. Most XI players went to XIV because its popular and has pretty graphics with FF related nostalgia, and also because SE gave up on XI. Also just because something is popular doesn't make it "good." Look at how many people bashed WoW when FFXI was in its glory days, those same players are playing a clone of it lol. A lot of people quit all the time in XIV, and regardless if theres people to play with (can't do much with them unless they are in your savage group, no FC content etc.) the community is horrid in there.

I took several weeks finally leveled up all my crafts and gathering jobs to 60. Just started doing battle jobs only have 2 out of 13 battle jobs capped at level 60 in 14 giving me so much to do because leveling battle jobs takes a lot of time. On FFXI however I do the story missions which take 2-3 hours then I am pretty much done till next patch. I already have all the gear I need, with 14 though you can get a lot of better gear with each patch giving you something to work for.

There so much to do from hunting minion pets, trying to craft glamour gear make cute looking outfits for your character. My old FFXI LS all moved to 14 we have about 60 active members. I can understand playing FFXI still but a lot of people who played FFXI did move on cause its 14 is basically the successor to 11 and it does have pretty graphics and a lot of nice features.

Olor

08-20-2015, 02:17 AM

All XIV has is pretty graphics. The game is souless. Mages are boring to play. It's plastic.

Vanfrano

08-20-2015, 02:25 AM

I took several weeks finally leveled up all my crafts and gathering jobs to 60. Just started doing battle jobs only have 2 out of 13 battle jobs capped at level 60 in 14 giving me so much to do because leveling battle jobs takes a lot of time. On FFXI however I do the story missions which take 2-3 hours then I am pretty much done till next patch. I already have all the gear I need, with 14 though you can get a lot of better gear with each patch giving you something to work for.

There so much to do from hunting minion pets, trying to craft glamour gear make cute looking outfits for your character. My old FFXI LS all moved to 14 we have about 60 active members. I can understand playing FFXI still but a lot of people who played FFXI did move on cause its 14 is basically the successor to 11 and it does have pretty graphics and a lot of nice features.

I guess it depends on the vision and playstyle of each and everyone. It took me one week to get my BLM to 60, along with my three gatherers. After that, the same old spam the same dungeon forever, do the raid once a week because of the lockouts. And now it even comes with lockouts for crafting and gathering.
My old LS was on FFXI for several years, we all moved to XIV (1.0) and played until the end. Then 2.0 came, we were around 40 and we all ran away from that game after some months, and I mean ran away. We have 4 people still playing on XIV, and they even say that they're bored as hell with the game but that "there is nothing else as new and shiny".

Sadly for them, and for a lot of people, they are missing out on the gem that is FFXI, and as Stompa said, it is in its golden age right now. I'm tempted to go even farther as saying that FFXIV's supposed success is a nice little reflection on the state of gaming and people in general, aiming for emptiness and pop corn content.

I'm surprised you are saying that you have all the gear you need in FFXI but enjoy getting "better" gear on FFXIV with each patch. We have been getting a ton of new gear in XI these last few months, so unless you are only interested in having max level gear and not get all the situational stuff -which is, according to me, one of the best point of FFXI-, I don't see how you can say that you are done after doing the missions. And getting all these pieces of equipment takes a lot of time, even more than leveling battle jobs in FFXIV spamming FATEs and some dungeons, the main difference being that here, you actually have a huge choice of content, you're not locked out, you play the way you want to, with the number of players you chose to play with and you rarely find yourself throwing away your stuff every three months. There is pretty much nothing to do on FFXIV, most of the content is junk and a joke, the only thing where they put thought in is how to keep people subscribed until the next update.

We actually had way more interesting content with the last few updates and RoV updates in FFXI, for free, than in Heavensward (hi 120$ collector edition).

If you don't enjoy FFXI anymore, that's too bad I guess but I keep wondering why so many people who are enjoying FFXIV -oh so much- keep coming here or on other FFXI forum.

Alhanelem

08-20-2015, 02:30 AM

All XIV has is pretty graphics. The game is souless. Mages are boring to play. It's plastic.
Subjective opinion. I main SMN, and while it is completely utterly different from XI, it's still fun to play. It got moreso with AKH MORN! aka deathflare.

After that, the same old spam the same dungeon forever, do the raid once a week because of the lockouts.I'd rather do something a couple times a week and get what I want than spam it 5000 times fighting for that <1% drop rate to work in my favor.

Sadly for them, and for a lot of people, they are missing out on the gem that is FFXI, and as Stompa said, it is in its golden age right now.Not all of us are missing out on it. \o/

If you don't enjoy FFXI anymore, that's too bad I guess but I keep wondering why so many people who are enjoying FFXIV -oh so much- keep coming here or on other FFXI forum. In most cases, it's because we still like XI too. Shocking as it may seem, liking FFXI and liking FFXIV are not mutually exclusive.

Vanfrano

08-20-2015, 02:54 AM

I'd rather do something a couple times a week and get what I want than spam it 5000 times fighting for that <1% drop rate to work in my favor.

You can complete each floor of Alexander Savage once a week, first you're not sure you'll be getting a drop, then you have to wait several weeks cumulating tokens to exchange for equipment. This is your terrible drop rate in disguise (and Draylo said it, we don't have many <1% drop rates left in FFXI).
I'd rather play the way I want to and spam an event if I want to, rather than have someone tell me how I'm supposed to play and for how long per week. And even blocking me no matter how well I play with DPS checks everywhere (again, subscription streeetching). And... only to throw away everything I worked for after several weeks.

Zumi

08-20-2015, 03:02 AM

If you don't enjoy FFXI anymore, that's too bad I guess but I keep wondering why so many people who are enjoying FFXIV -oh so much- keep coming here or on other FFXI forum.

Mainly cause there is free time every update to do story missions in FFXI. Since I played it for like 13 years I want to see how it ends with the new storyline. People like different things but there are plenty of people who do like and enjoy FFXIV. People have different tastes on what they like in a game.

Dieth

08-20-2015, 04:09 AM

If FFXI goes truly F2P, I will most likely retire from MMOs for as long as I can hold myself back. I've quit tried to quit three times already.

Draylo-

08-20-2015, 05:06 AM

I guess it depends on the vision and playstyle of each and everyone. It took me one week to get my BLM to 60, along with my three gatherers. After that, the same old spam the same dungeon forever, do the raid once a week because of the lockouts. And now it even comes with lockouts for crafting and gathering.
My old LS was on FFXI for several years, we all moved to XIV (1.0) and played until the end. Then 2.0 came, we were around 40 and we all ran away from that game after some months, and I mean ran away. We have 4 people still playing on XIV, and they even say that they're bored as hell with the game but that "there is nothing else as new and shiny".

Sadly for them, and for a lot of people, they are missing out on the gem that is FFXI, and as Stompa said, it is in its golden age right now. I'm tempted to go even farther as saying that FFXIV's supposed success is a nice little reflection on the state of gaming and people in general, aiming for emptiness and pop corn content.

I'm surprised you are saying that you have all the gear you need in FFXI but enjoy getting "better" gear on FFXIV with each patch. We have been getting a ton of new gear in XI these last few months, so unless you are only interested in having max level gear and not get all the situational stuff -which is, according to me, one of the best point of FFXI-, I don't see how you can say that you are done after doing the missions. And getting all these pieces of equipment takes a lot of time, even more than leveling battle jobs in FFXIV spamming FATEs and some dungeons, the main difference being that here, you actually have a huge choice of content, you're not locked out, you play the way you want to, with the number of players you chose to play with and you rarely find yourself throwing away your stuff every three months. There is pretty much nothing to do on FFXIV, most of the content is junk and a joke, the only thing where they put thought in is how to keep people subscribed until the next update.

We actually had way more interesting content with the last few updates and RoV updates in FFXI, for free, than in Heavensward (hi 120$ collector edition).

If you don't enjoy FFXI anymore, that's too bad I guess but I keep wondering why so many people who are enjoying FFXIV -oh so much- keep coming here or on other FFXI forum.

I think you hit the nail on the head. The gaming scene atm is... depressing for the most part. Instant gratification kiddies running amock with their candy crush and such. I have friends who feel the same way, they are bored of XIV but force themselves to play it. The mindset of some of these players is horrid though. Look at the person you quoted, clearly that guy doesn't have a clue. He really considers minion pets and glamor as content LOL, oh man those DEVs must make a killing on their cash shop off those people. He mentions "pretty graphics" several times... I even had a comment against me on youtube saying "let ffxi go already ffxiv is the future" so I said "why let ffxi go? its a game like any other and its still fun, age has nothing to do with it" and he responds "it has outdated graphics" like really...? I can only imagine these kids are like 12 years old or something.

Zumi

08-20-2015, 05:13 AM

I tried to get people to play FFXI on my FFXIV FC to play some during the free week, like I said its all people from my 11 ls and nobody really wanted to come back for the free week to play some. Did get 2 people to bite in previous free weeks, one of them played for 10 min and said "no not playing this again". Other person I got to play for like a day, exp on some rabbits and raptors in that one seekers snowy area but that was about it.

One of the biggest problems is the game population there is like 200-300 people on at peak times with about half of them afk bazzaring in jeuno most of the people are also JP players who are left. Would it be cool to try new delve the new nms in the new RoV areas. Guessing SE will merge servers take them down to 2-4 after the final update the major problem for returning players is there is nobody to do anything with past story missions which are solo.

Zumi

08-20-2015, 05:24 AM

Draylo-

08-20-2015, 05:52 AM

Oh I believe it, but I feel the stuff they like is inferior and its a shame FFXI isn't given their time :( I know what you mean about people not wanting to come back to XI even though its free, always puzzles me.

Vanfrano

08-20-2015, 07:25 AM

I think you hit the nail on the head. The gaming scene atm is... depressing for the most part. Instant gratification kiddies running amock with their candy crush and such. I have friends who feel the same way, they are bored of XIV but force themselves to play it. The mindset of some of these players is horrid though. Look at the person you quoted, clearly that guy doesn't have a clue. He really considers minion pets and glamor as content LOL, oh man those DEVs must make a killing on their cash shop off those people. He mentions "pretty graphics" several times... I even had a comment against me on youtube saying "let ffxi go already ffxiv is the future" so I said "why let ffxi go? its a game like any other and its still fun, age has nothing to do with it" and he responds "it has outdated graphics" like really...? I can only imagine these kids are like 12 years old or something.

Honestly, I know all this talk is useless and I'm sure you know that too. I must admit that I grew tired of all these people saying "amen" to pretty much everything SE did on FFXIV when clearly they take the players for granted and offer something absolutely worthless. I've been following FFXIV since the beginning and it amazes me how people do not see what they are served or just chose to accept things as they are, believing every word of "incredible effort and devotion" from the team and in particular from the producer. How long will they cope with this? I'm watching, and I may end up sounding like a troll but this is not my goal, at all, I simply don't understand -and I really try to- how most of the people came to accept all of this, even paying for it. My faith in humanity takes a hit every time.

Anyway, I will just say that I deeply enjoy these sweet moments in FFXI even though I am playing entirely solo now by choice. I enjoy reading people like you, Stompa and others sharing their love for this game, knowing how we all feel about it and seeing that I am not alone (and crazy, for some) in how much I love Vana'diel. This world has been our second home for several years and I never ever felt this anywhere else, and probably never will again.

Alhanelem

08-20-2015, 10:23 AM

You can complete each floor of Alexander Savage once a week, first you're not sure you'll be getting a drop, then you have to wait several weeks cumulating tokens to exchange for equipment.No, it's not terrible drop rates in disguise. Form a premade party, do 2 runs, and odds are pretty good most people in the group will get something. If not in 2, then in 3. Unlike things like the Tartarus mail where entire alliances might go in and not even see it drop much less get it.

I think you hit the nail on the head. The gaming scene atm is...No, not really he didn't. Different people like different things. I'm not sure why there's a problem with this? And it's hilarious lumping FFXIV in with Candy Crush? The only way to "instant gratification" in that game is to throw lots of money at it for cheat boosters, anyway. FFXIV is far from instant gratification. Also, you ridicule minions and glamour but some people enjoy customizing their avatars as much or even more than they like playing the game itself (Not just FFXIV either, but any game with a character creator or appearance thing going on in it). Who are you to tell them they can't like this that or the other thing?

when clearly they take the players for granted and offer something absolutely worthless. Maybe it's worthless *to you*, but who are you to say that it's worthless to other people? Just because you don't like it and think it's bad, doesn't make it some kind of almighty fact. Different people like different things, and I'm more convinced than ever that the hate for FFXIV displayed here is purely resentment for the perception that it was specifically created to kill their precious baby, FFXI. Well, I keep coming back, so obviously that didn't work, did it? In many of the posts above, what I see basically amounts to "STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE!"

And seriously, why am I like not allowed to like both FFXI and FFXIV? Why do I get crapped on for even mentioning the game here? That's really not fair. The fact that you keep seeing me back here should be regarded as a testament to FFXI's brainwashing power, lol- seems I can't stay away from it forever, even if I try to! Let people like what they want and stop hating them for it.

Vanfrano, really all it is, is the game isn't for you. That doesn't make it bad or defective, not everything can appeal to everybody. The people you see praising Yoshi P and the dev team are simply showing their appriciation because they're genuinely having a good time. I'm not sure why that's so hard to understand, even if you don't see what people find fun about the game. The simple fact is, they do find things fun about the game, and you shouldn't have to understand why to accept that.

Shinun

08-20-2015, 12:53 PM

I think the game having so much solo content, and stopping major updates after rhapsody is what's going to get me to do alot of subbing because then it becomes almost a giant solo RPG.

Between FFXIV and FFXI I feel the better value is FFXIV because as a legacy player their is quite a difference of paying as low as $7.99 for upwards of 40 characters a month. (I use 8 Characters on Zalera.) compared to $12.95 + $1 for each mule it's not even close. Sadly that does play a big role in which I choose to play the last few years.

What I don't like about XIV and what I did like about XI before the level cap increase was not having a gear treadmill where after months of work everything is flushed. It's why I believe games like GW2 which the incentive for different gear is for the most part purely for cosmetic glamours and not constant stat upgrades is one of the best options for these types of games. Thankfully that seems to be in the future what FFXI will play like where after you get your gear and work towards your final peices the rest will just be for stylelock.

I also feel like XI as a pure game is the better of the two due to the vast amount of content you can do. Now, most of it is obsolete. That goes the same for XIV once heavensward came out ARR content was completly obsolete. But, in both games you can still partake in the content for fun and this is where XI shines compared to XIV. XI has more options of different styles of content to partake in. Now, this isnt a fault of XIV as much as it's that XI has been out for so much longer. XIV has some fun content like Chocobo Racing, and Triple Triad, and really fun PVP. But the boredom and burnout comes in when other then those few side options all you have really is DF Dungeons and trials, which most people are burned out on a vast majority of them from all the tunneling of the Relic Weapon Questlines from 2.0

Alhanelem

08-20-2015, 04:31 PM

It's why I believe games like GW2 which the incentive for different gear is for the most part purely for cosmetic glamoursExcept FFXIV is pretty much all about this. When you continue your "gear treadmill", you build up a collection of often awesome looking stuff that now serve a second purpose of making you look however you want, and awesome in the process. The further irony is it was FFXIV that used the term "glamours." It doesn't matter what gear you get so much as simply getting it. in FFXI there is a lot of content that doesn't get played because the rewards suck. in FFXIV that doesn't happen because even doing old content (via the roulette) can help you get new gear. Plus, as I said before, XI still has treadmills, they just work differently because of the progression style.

It works better for FFXIv because it didn't spend 7+ years frozen at the same level cap. If FFXI had not waited so long (or never did it at all, one or the other), it would have worked out better.
(1.0 XIV doesn't really count because most people didn't play it until ARR and 1.0 was almost a totally different game)

Vanfrano

08-20-2015, 04:42 PM

No, not really he didn't. Different people like different things. I'm not sure why there's a problem with this? And it's hilarious lumping FFXIV in with Candy Crush? The only way to "instant gratification" in that game is to throw lots of money at it for cheat boosters, anyway. FFXIV is far from instant gratification. Also, you ridicule minions and glamour but some people enjoy customizing their avatars as much or even more than they like playing the game itself (Not just FFXIV either, but any game with a character creator or appearance thing going on in it). Who are you to tell them they can't like this that or the other thing?

Maybe it's worthless *to you*, but who are you to say that it's worthless to other people? Just because you don't like it and think it's bad, doesn't make it some kind of almighty fact. Different people like different things, and I'm more convinced than ever that the hate for FFXIV displayed here is purely resentment for the perception that it was specifically created to kill their precious baby, FFXI. Well, I keep coming back, so obviously that didn't work, did it? In many of the posts above, what I see basically amounts to "STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE!"

And seriously, why am I like not allowed to like both FFXI and FFXIV? Why do I get crapped on for even mentioning the game here? That's really not fair. The fact that you keep seeing me back here should be regarded as a testament to FFXI's brainwashing power, lol- seems I can't stay away from it forever, even if I try to! Let people like what they want and stop hating them for it.

Vanfrano, really all it is, is the game isn't for you. That doesn't make it bad or defective, not everything can appeal to everybody. The people you see praising Yoshi P and the dev team are simply showing their appriciation because they're genuinely having a good time. I'm not sure why that's so hard to understand, even if you don't see what people find fun about the game. The simple fact is, they do find things fun about the game, and you shouldn't have to understand why to accept that.

It's not really about "not liking what I don't like", it's more about "open your eyes and see that this game doesn't respect its playerbase and manipulates it". Also, don't take things too personally, obviously you're allowed to like both games.

Alhanelem

08-20-2015, 05:10 PM

"open your eyes and see that this game doesn't respect its playerbase and manipulates it"This is completely false. It totally respects its playerbase. It's actually incredible how many things the community asks for and flat out gets just because they asked for it. They certainly don't say "we have no plans" to almost every single suggestion, request, etc. The players are manipulating the game, not the other way around.

But really, my point was, the players aren't just mindless worshippers. They have reasons to be enjoying what they're doing.

The same goes for FFXI; the people playing it now love it for a reason, and even the players who stopped loved it for other reasons, and not just because they were tricked into saying so.

Vanfrano

08-20-2015, 05:49 PM

But really, my point was, the players aren't just mindless worshippers. They have reasons to be enjoying what they're doing.

I think they are for the most part and SE knows that perfectly well. This doesn't only apply to SE players by the way.
Let's just agree to disagree I guess.

Shinun

08-20-2015, 10:46 PM

Except FFXIV is pretty much all about this. When you continue your "gear treadmill", you build up a collection of often awesome looking stuff that now serve a second purpose of making you look however you want, and awesome in the process. The further irony is it was FFXIV that used the term "glamours." It doesn't matter what gear you get so much as simply getting it. in FFXI there is a lot of content that doesn't get played because the rewards suck. in FFXIV that doesn't happen because even doing old content (via the roulette) can help you get new gear. Plus, as I said before, XI still has treadmills, they just work differently because of the progression style.

It works better for FFXIv because it didn't spend 7+ years frozen at the same level cap. If FFXI had not waited so long (or never did it at all, one or the other), it would have worked out better.
(1.0 XIV doesn't really count because most people didn't play it until ARR and 1.0 was almost a totally different game)

Not quite. FFXIV Glamour system is a double edged sword. Inventory space is very limited. I got around this by having 16 retainers through 8 characters sharing a FC chest but still it's a problem for glamouring gear. The old content in FFXIV is a chore even when doing roulettes. I constantly hear people complain when they get stuff like Tam Tara for Leveling roulette that most just stop doing them. Gear also becomes obsolete way too fast. Next Patch oh my gear is obsolete gotta go do relic weapon or grind this new weekly gear drop. Next Patch? Repeat. Next Patch? Repeat. It just burns you out so fast.

It's the one thing I do like about FFXI alot more then FFXIV. I'm tired of farming JP. I'll go Salvage. Tired of that? I'll go Walk of Echoes. Tired of that? I'll go Dynamis. Tired of that? I'll go Abyssea. Tired of that? I'll go Campaign. Tired of that? I'll go VNM. Thanks to how solo friendly it is I have the choice to do majority of content by myself whenever I feel like and the content atleast to me feels different. This isn't the case in FFXIV. It's all Dungeons and Trials.

I was vastly let down when 3.0 is after the amazing story just a reskinned 2.0 (With Flying). The way FFXIV is I feel like if they keep the pattern going I'm more inclined to take monthly/yearly breaks and just come back in chunks to do storyline and pretty much instantly catch up on gear that's just below the current weekly capped tomes to try all the new dungeons/trials and then stop again and repeat at a later date.

Alhanelem

08-21-2015, 01:28 AM

Not quite. FFXIV Glamour system is a double edged sword. Inventory space is very limited.idk. I've kept most of my main class gear and I still have a full retainer's worth of space left. However, I agree that they should come up with like a glamour log or something so you don't necessarily have to keep everything to glamour it (Although some items can be reobtained from the Calamity Salvager and some can be stored in teh armoire.

It's all Dungeons and Trials. Or fates. Or hunts. Or sidequests. Or Crafting/gathering. Or Gold Saucer (best thing ever). Or PvP. Or Leves. Also, you're comparing the variet of content in a game that's going on 11 years old with one that's really been out for 2. So you're not really being fair here, but even then there's more variety than you imply. It's fair to say FFXI is vast- but it's not fair to complain about FFXIV being less so after a single expansion and a fraction of the time being released.

I was vastly let down when 3.0 is after the amazing story just a reskinned 2.0 (With Flying).This is a pretty absurd comment. This is like saying Sea is just a reskinned Sky. It's not like FFXI isn't guilty of the same thing, lots of new "battle contents" that are basically the same as the ones before them, Most of the areas in Wings of the Goddess were recycled original areas... meeble burrows are like assaults are like maze mongers.... etc. Job points is the same thing as merits just restricted to job specific earning... Oversimplify a little more and you can make even more stuff "reskinned."

I think they are for the most part and SE knows that perfectly well.You think != they are. They aren't, so yeah, I'll agree to disagree with you, because you're wrong <3

*deep breath* Anyway... some people like it, some people don't. That's fine. It's not your duty to udnerstand why anyone likes either game. It's only your duty to accept that they do.

Shinun

08-21-2015, 01:50 AM

idk. I've kept most of my main class gear and I still have a full retainer's worth of space left. However, I agree that they should come up with like a glamour log or something so you don't necessarily have to keep everything to glamour it (Although some items can be reobtained from the Calamity Salvager and some can be stored in teh armoire.

Or fates. Or hunts. Or sidequests. Or Crafting/gathering. Or Gold Saucer (best thing ever). Or PvP. Or Leves. Also, you're comparing the variet of content in a game that's going on 11 years old with one that's really been out for 2. So you're not really being fair here, but even then there's more variety than you imply.

This is a pretty absurd comment. This is like saying Sea is just a reskinned Sky. It's not like FFXI isn't guilty of the same thing, lots of new "battle contents" that are basically the same as the ones before them, Most of the areas in Wings of the Goddess were recycled original areas... meeble burrows are like assaults are like maze mongers.... etc. Job points is the same thing as merits just restricted to job specific earning... Oversimplify a little more and you can make even more stuff "reskinned."

You think != they are. They aren't, so yeah, I'll agree to disagree with you, because you're wrong <3

I already stated that in terms of content it's not fair to compare one to another straight since XI has been around so much longer. WoTG zones are recycled but, it added new content in terms of campaign. Comparing Sea to Sky or Assaults/Meebles isn't the same as saying 2.0 is a reskinned 3.0 Atleast with XI your doing different content even if it plays similiar. Your not in XIV. Your doing your Weekly Roulette caps which all they do is funnel the dungeons to different catagories of roulettes. And after tome farming if you want to do anything else your doing FATES just to do FATES if your not leveling. Gathering to Gather. Craft to Craft. If XIV Heavensward patches until the next expansion only copy exactly what 2.0 to 3.0 did which is:
New Story Dungeons
HM Dungeons
New 24 Man Raid
Continuation of 8 man Raid
New Trials
More Tomes
Hunt Item updates
Treasure Map updates
Craft/Gathering updates

If pretty much that's all that 3.0 to 4.0 gives I prob wont stay with it because I will have little hope of ever getting any types of new contents other then the same recycle of every expansion.

Alhanelem

08-21-2015, 02:02 AM

We haven't even had the first major patch yet. The launch just sets the stage. When each of the XI expansions came out, you couldn't hardly do anything new off the bat either, just explore the new areas.
What FFXIV has done really isn't that different from what XI has done. What did we get in audolin? Some new battle contents most of which are similar to existing ones. Some new areas, most of which are pretty similar to existing ones. Updated versions of old BCNMs. Updated verisons of old mission fights. More NMs to kill. SoA is guilty of almost all the same things you're accusing Heavensward of.

FFXI and FFXIV both are recycling a lot of concepts. It's not fair to act like FFXI is a holy grail of originality and XIV the recycler of recycling. Both are guilty of the same things.

I'm not going to nitty nit pick anymore though (even though I could). We shall see what the future holds. There are several patches down the line all of which could (or could not, to be completely fair and unbiased) have new features.