Dev question regarding August 5th Job Point Gift List - 1200 point gift

[Rakshaka]

Does the 1200 point gift break the 30s BP reduction cap that's currently provided by BP and BP II reduction gear? I.e. can it bring BP timers down to a 25 second cooldown?

[Zeargi]

I was wondering this myself.

[Ponto]

It doesn't break. That gift is really useless and this is reported as in game bugs both in English and JP but square wants to

[Ponto]

wants to avoid fixing it :(

[Rakshaka]

I'm glad to know that at least it's in the "Accepted Bugs" forum
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/48143-Summoner-Blood-Pact-Delay

[Tidis]

Accepted bugs doesn't mean much, it just means the report is in the correct format and it'll be investigated. It doesn't confirm if it is a bug or not.

[Zeargi]

I'm confused. That Bug Report states that the BP timer could get down to 26/25 seconds, so then the Gift does break the hard caps. It's currently broken though as of the 8/11 update. But I'm still wondering all the items now that have BP II- on them?

[AtrixWolfe]

An official comment on this would be very much appreciated by SMN everywhere as prior to the 1200 point gift it was possible to get BP down to 30 seconds, so this doesn't really help summoner at all.

BP Delay gear caps at a 15 second Reduction
BP II Delay gear also appears to have that cap but up until this last patch the most BP II delay you could acquire was 3 from the cape and 3 from 119 Glyphic Armor and 5 from the satchet, the 100 job points BP delay reduction is 5 seconds, having 16 didn't reduce it to 29 however. After the patch came out with the 1200 gift, several smn reported a change in how BP delay was being calculated, in other words BP Delay II and the gifts weren't taking from the same pool they were different! Meaning with new gear (the staff and the hexed +1) and the 1200 point gift you could get down to another 3 and 5 for 21 second BP delay which would've been fitting for 1200 job points and getting all that gear.

As is though after the august 11th patch, BP Delay II and Job Point gifts are back to sharing the same cap. Here are reports of that:
https://i.gyazo.com/d1a07128b13fc768fdb94c34906be898.png
https://i.gyazo.com/363c546c8f0ec3800f0e920eb2ea7a37.png

The gear to get BP delay down to 30 seconds is relatively easy to obtain for summoner, so it would be a travesty if this job point gift doesn't let us go below 30 second recast, a summoner that spends 16 to 40 hours grinding job points for their job isn't going to have a hard time obtaining this other gear for bp delay, so it is really doing nothing for summoner at all if it doesn't reduce delay further. Can we please have an official statement from SE about if this is a bug or intended? Because it doesn't feel like this was the intention for the 1200 gift at all and more than one person reported before the patch on August 11th it seems to have been working as it should.

Here is an accepted bug report however it is missing some of the information I posted above: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/48143-Summoner-Blood-Pact-Delay

[Helias]

I just hit 1200 job points and realized I'm still @30 seconds on bloodpact timer. Is there any new info on this? It seems the first tier job gift surpasses the limit, why doesn't this one?

[Zeargi]

That a whole lot of JPs to spend if it doesn't actually move the BP timer lower that 30s. I'm hoping that there will be an answer soon. I'd love to get 25s, it'd help so much with things.

[AtrixWolfe]

Please upvote the topic guys, it won't guarantee replies from the mods but it definitely helps. I have to admit this is really heartbreaking if smn gets 1200 JP and it basically does nothing for the job.

[Ulth]

Inventory +2? I wouldn't say it does nothing. Thief's 100 and 1200 JP gifts do nothing. Thief's and Dancer's 550 gift actually hurts tp gain by giving them too much dual wield. Sure it's no 80k magic burst death, or +1 to all traits, but it could still be worst.

[AtrixWolfe]

Inventory +2? I wouldn't say it does nothing. Thief's 100 and 1200 JP gifts do nothing. Thief's and Dancer's 550 gift actually hurts tp gain by giving them too much dual wield. Sure it's no 80k magic burst death, or +1 to all traits, but it could still be worst.

Ah yes, what would my day be without some relative privation. Sorry but that isn't a valid argument, and jobs with detrimental or non useful 1200 gifts should have justification for doing so. On top of that it was reportedly working before the aug 11th patch.

[Ulth]

Saying something isn't a valid argument, isn't a valid argument, because you didn't give any reason why it isn't valid. Also I'm guessing it's not a bug. Don't you find it a little odd that bloodpact delay II just happened to be capped at 15 like blood pact delay? It's almost like when they made it possible to go over 15 they forgot to write in a cap. If it was a ninja fix it's a pretty shady thing to not put it in the patch notes, but my money is on the cap being intentional.

[Ghost2k4]

... snip...

The gear to get BP delay down to 30 seconds is relatively easy to obtain for summoner, so it would be a travesty if this job point gift doesn't let us go below 30 second recast, a summoner that spends 16 to 40 hours grinding job points for their job isn't going to have a hard time obtaining this other gear for bp delay, so it is really doing nothing for summoner at all if it doesn't reduce delay further. Can we please have an official statement from SE about if this is a bug or intended? Because it doesn't feel like this was the intention for the 1200 gift at all and more than one person reported before the patch on August 11th it seems to have been working as it should.

Here is an accepted bug report however it is missing some of the information I posted above: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/48143-Summoner-Blood-Pact-Delay

Both the ffxiah post and the bug report were from me. While I really really hope it is a bug I have a feeling SE messed up the code and let it get below 30 seconds and then ninja patched it. If they had just said "We broke it, and it wasn't supposed to do that" I would be happy.

[Garota]

C'mon, seriously. There could have been so many better simple things to give us, hell, some new AoE Damage Blood Pacts, perhaps even other Hybrid Physical/Magical Bloodpacts.


What do you need it for?

http://cdn.ffxipro.com/images/ss/full/8ca5f045c8a0f16cd6c88d04a1974f89.jpg

If anything, I want an AoE Blood Pact: Rage.

But nothing ever came of asking for an AoE Blood Pact...

So I said that I wanted Hybrid Elementals, those would make up for the a useless gift we got instead.


Anyways, I'll play along and add my wishlist for SMN Job Point goodies.


Hybrid Spirit Pacts

This is a paragraph about stuff and junk why this is a good idea, blahblah blah, and because Cait Sith was such a disappointment. Also, the Blood Pact Delay -5 Gift from 100 Job Points was rather underwhelming compared to other jobs.

These Hybrid Spirits will only be castable by Lv99 SMN with the prerequisite of um, something which I have no clue of yet. None of the spirits will have a Favor linked to them, similar to current spirits. They will also have a perpetuation cost comparable to Celestial Avatars. The time required to cast a Hybrid Spirit will be equal to Avatars and not Spirits.

The Hybrid Spirits would behave similarly to the current Elemental Spirits, when engaged, they will cast offensive spells when they have been assaulted on a target or auto-assaulted due to aggro. The spells would be based on their element type and the tiers would scale up to V and they will also cast area of effect spells (-aja). Differing from typical Spirits, when passive, these will cast Enhancing Black and White Magic spells on themselves. Another distinguishing feature compared to typical Spirits, these hybrids will use Blood Pacts based on the actual hybrids' abilities. Hybrid Spirits will not have any Ward based Blood Pacts. Under the effect of Astral Flow, they will not gain additional Blood Pacts.


Baelfyr Spirit
Light/Fire
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130719103351/finalfantasy/images/thumb/7/71/Hybrid_2B_%28FFXI%29.png/150px-Hybrid_2B_%28FFXI%29.webp

When passive this spirit will work similarly to the current Light Spirit, due to it's tendency to cast spells randomly such as Protect V and Shell V, Curaga V, Haste II, and MAYBE even Regen V (Although I suppose Regen II should suffice). Those enhancing spells will have priority over the following spells:


Enlight, Enfire, Blaze Spikes, Stoneskin, Blink, Aquaveil

The following offensive spells will be cast at random when assaulted on an enemy target:


Banishga III, Dia III, Banish IV
Burn, Addle, Fire V, Firaga III, Firaja, Flare II

The two following Blood Pact: Rage will be exclusive to the Baelfyr Spirit only:


Blinding Fulgor - 15' Area Light damage centered on Spirit. Additional effect: Flash
Searing Tempest - 15' Area Fire damage centered on Spirit. Additional effect: 25 HP Burn



Byrgen Spirit
Dark/Earth
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130719103328/finalfantasy/images/thumb/d/d0/Hybrid_1B_%28FFXI%29.png/150px-Hybrid_1B_%28FFXI%29.webp

When passive this spirit will cast the following enhancing spells on itself:


Endrain, Enstone, Dread Spikes, Stoneskin

The following offensive spells will be cast at random when assaulted on an enemy target:


Sleepga II, Bio III, Stun, Dispel, Drain II, Aspir II, all Absorb spells
Rasp, Slow II, Break/Petrify, Stone V, Stonega III, Stoneja, Quake II

The two following Blood Pact: Rage will be exclusive to the Byrgen Spirit only:

Tenebral Crush - 15' Area Dark damage centered on Spirit. Additional effect: Knockback
Entomb - 15' Area Earth damage centered on Spirit. Additional effect: Petrify


Gefyrst Spirit
Water/Ice
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130719103433/finalfantasy/images/thumb/c/c4/Hybrid_4B_%28FFXI%29.png/150px-Hybrid_4B_%28FFXI%29.webp

When passive this spirit will cast the following enhancing spells on itself:


Enwater, Enblizzard, Aquaveil, Ice Spikes

The following offensive spells will be cast at random when assaulted on an enemy target:


Drown, Poison III, Water V, Waterga III, Waterja, Flood II
Frost, Paralyze II, Blizzard V, Blizzaga III, Blizzaja, Freeze II

The two following Blood Pact: Rage will be exclusive to the Gefyrst Spirit only:
'2
Spectral Floe - 15' Area Water damage centered on Spirit. Additional effect: Terror
Scouring Spate - 15' Area Ice damage centered on Spirit. Additional effect: Paralyze


Ungeweder Spirit
Wind/Thunder
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130719103411/finalfantasy/images/thumb/6/6e/Hybrid_3B_%28FFXI%29.png/150px-Hybrid_3B_%28FFXI%29.webp

When passive this spirit will cast the following enhancing spells on itself:


Enaero, Enthunder, Blink, Shock Spikes

The following offensive spells will be cast at random when assaulted on an enemy target:


Silence, Choke, Gravity II, Aero V, Aeroga III, Aeroja, Tornado II
Shock, Stun, Thunder V, Thundaga III, Thundaja, Burst II

The two following Blood Pact: Rage will be exclusive to the Ungeweder Spirit only:

Silent Storm - 15' Area Wind damage centered on Spirit. Additional effect: Gravity and Silence
Anvil Lightning - 15' Area Thunder damage centered on Spirit. Additional effect: Stun

The names of the the aforementioned abilities and the additional effects are based on observations from playing with Escalents in Yorcia Skirmish II. The enemy Hybrid Elementals in game use their special ability attacks when enough TP has been accumulated, the Hybrid Spirits will however be able to use the abilities through the use of Blood Pact Rage. The amount of damage dealt would be modified by TP and by the Summoner's equipment, for example Pet: MAB+, Blood Pact Damage+, and Avatar: TP Bonus. On the contrary, the duration of the additional effects will be based on Summoning Skill and Pet: Magic Accuracy+ on the Summoner's Equipment.

As previously mentioned, all spells would be cast randomly by the Spirit, summoning skill affect "the spirit's AI and will shorten time between spells casts" just like current spirits. All Blood Pacts will have the same MP cost of... 250? MP, except when under the effect of Apogee. All Blood Pacts will (not?) have skill chain properties.

But then I was told No.


Greetings!

Thanks for all the job point categories and Gifts ideas! I'd like to comment on a couple of them based on information I received from the development team.


Similar to encumbered and other ailments that are difficult to manage, we designed charm and amnesia so that the effect durations are short or you can out right dodge them. With that said, the dev. team has no plans to add spells that would remove these enfeebling effects.


Unfortunately, the development team does not have any plans to implement these kind of spirits for summoner.


These special weapon skills are not available for every type of weapon, so unlocking these for non-campaign use would be unfair to players who do not use these particular weapons. As such we would like to keep these weapon skills as they are currently.

[Urat]

Saying something isn't a valid argument, isn't a valid argument, because you didn't give any reason why it isn't valid. Also I'm guessing it's not a bug. Don't you find it a little odd that bloodpact delay II just happened to be capped at 15 like blood pact delay? It's almost like when they made it possible to go over 15 they forgot to write in a cap. If it was a ninja fix it's a pretty shady thing to not put it in the patch notes, but my money is on the cap being intentional.

Other jobs having bad 1200 JP gifts doesn't justify our literally 0 use JP gift.

It means a lot 1200 JP gifts need fixing.

[AtrixWolfe]

Both the ffxiah post and the bug report were from me. While I really really hope it is a bug I have a feeling SE messed up the code and let it get below 30 seconds and then ninja patched it. If they had just said "We broke it, and it wasn't supposed to do that" I would be happy.

I wouldn't be too happy with that :( Why are the gifts BP Delay II? They aren't listed as BP Delay II. If they are BP Delay II category shouldn't it be listed as such? And then what is the use of having them BP Delay gear isn't exactly difficult to acquire and even if it was, aren't 100, 550 and 1200 point gifts supposed to be central for a job and in some cases game changing? Beyond the 100 point gift there is zero reason t have more unless it is separate from bp delay II.


C'mon, seriously. There could have been so many better simple things to give us, hell, some new AoE Damage Blood Pacts, perhaps even other Hybrid Physical/Magical Bloodpacts.

Either of those would be fine additions to SMN, it really seems odd to me that so many of the pacts have AoE animations and that Karaha-Baruha has a Lunar Cry Weaponskill and it IS AoE!! Like really :( And another Avatar with a flaming crush type move would really make me feel more happy because using one Avatar with on BP for so much of the time seems silly to me when we're supposed to be about summoning all these different elemental avatars which are situationally useful, instead it seems merit pacts for dmg, pred claws for phys only and flaming crush for hybrid is the 90% of the time what ppl end up having to use. The support end is nice for SMN but our pacts are weak in power because we can stack them so much and we have to have payoffs because of how favor works. It just seems more effort than it is worth a lot of the time and even detrimental to stack a ton of buffs and the ones we have some of the older ones were strong at their time but not so much now.

Decreased timers though would also really help SMN. BST ready timer is what 10 seconds now? They have SEVERAL AoE moves to choose from, and while they can't boast much support capabilities they have very potent debuffs on some pets. So why can BST do damage 3x more than summoner, I thought the gifts were to help with job balance. And if BST only had great AoE capabilities then fine, but their tiger is also able to beat SMN damage on single targets. The worst part is to do the AoE farming you don't need great gear on BST. And BST that spent far less time on their gear and pet acquisition are beating out mythic SMN in Sinister Reign for damage. I know BST has been getting slight nerfs and changes almost every patch, so I feel it will eventually be balanced and I am NOT crying for some huge BST nerf or something. I just feel the game should be relatively balance on jobs, and while you can't make everyone happy it really bothers me there's not any statement on this. I don't know what SE's plan for Summoner is but an official statement about it even if it ends up disappointing would at least set me to rest, might not make me happy but would set me to rest.

[Ghost2k4]

I wouldn't be too happy with that :( Why are the gifts BP Delay II? They aren't listed as BP Delay II.

So happy probably wasn't the right word choice. I would just like to know an answer one way or another more than anything. The constant state of not knows is the worst part. If the gifts are BP Delay II then they really should be reworded as such too. Hopefully a dev will comment before September when the next version update is supposed to drop. =)

[Ulth]

BST ready timer is what 10 seconds now?

The response to the -5 ready shield leads me to believe that SE doesn't want bst to have a 10 second ready timer. They just didn't think they needed to cap it because they didn't think anyone would use charmer's merlin still, and underestimated its value. Once they saw how powerful 10 second timers were, it was too late and it was such a crucial part of popular strategies now that capping it would cause a riot. So instead they are trying to get bst to give up the 10 second timer by other means. And like how they don't want ready timers under 15 second, half of the original timer, they don't want bloodpacts under 30, half of the original timer.

[Helias]

Just got my first Espiritus today and it hasn't effected my BP timer either? Perhaps 30 seconds is the wall for -BPdelay II. Either way this doesn't seem to be just an issue with the job gift.

[bazookatooth]

The response to the -5 ready shield leads me to believe that SE doesn't want bst to have a 10 second ready timer. They just didn't think they needed to cap it because they didn't think anyone would use charmer's merlin still, and underestimated its value. Once they saw how powerful 10 second timers were, it was too late and it was such a crucial part of popular strategies now that capping it would cause a riot. So instead they are trying to get bst to give up the 10 second timer by other means. And like how they don't want ready timers under 15 second, half of the original timer, they don't want bloodpacts under 30, half of the original timer.

I think the reason they won't give the shield is because some clever people would use it to get ready recast down to 5 seconds.

[Ponto]

I think SE doesn't realise how much difference is there between SMN and BST who can use their ability in 10 sec without MP cost. Anyway hope SE improve this useless gift and amend that cap bug wich occurred in the previous update.

[Ulth]

I think the reason they won't give the shield is because some clever people would use it to get ready recast down to 5 seconds.

In case anyone didn't know the people at Blue Gartr do a great job of translating dev responses to the JP forums into english. This was said about a month ago:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/112776-Dev-Tracker-Findings-Posts-%28NO-DISCUSSION%29?p=6468108&viewfull=1#post6468108

So yeah, charmer's merlin not being 119 makes it pretty useless as an actual weapon. SE seemed to think that it was enough of a drawback that people wouldn't use it, but people still do, so now they are looking into other ways to force the master into engaging. Other ways that won't be effective, but that is a topic for a different thread.


I think SE doesn't realise how much difference is there between SMN and BST who can use their ability in 10 sec without MP cost. Anyway hope SE improve this useless gift and amend that cap bug wich occurred in the previous update.

Yeah, actually I think they know. That's why they are talking about removing the command range for bloodpacts and limiting the range of commands for ready. Which again, lowering the range of ready won't fix the underlying problem for bst. I still say the bug is not a bug, but a feature. And if they do change the gift it will probably just switch to Avatar: +40 TP bonus like bst got.

[bazookatooth]

In case anyone didn't know the people at Blue Gartr do a great job of translating dev responses to the JP forums into english. This was said about a month ago:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/112776-Dev-Tracker-Findings-Posts-%28NO-DISCUSSION%29?p=6468108&viewfull=1#post6468108

So yeah, charmer's merlin not being 119 makes it pretty useless as an actual weapon. SE seemed to think that it was enough of a drawback that people wouldn't use it, but people still do, so now they are looking into other ways to force the master into engaging. Other ways that won't be effective, but that is a topic for a different thread.

I read that as part about charmer's merlin as "It's fine how it is".

Not "Oh, we were hoping you wouldn't use that". But who knows. Maybe lost in translation.

[AtrixWolfe]

Just got my first Espiritus today and it hasn't effected my BP timer either? Perhaps 30 seconds is the wall for -BPdelay II. Either way this doesn't seem to be just an issue with the job gift.

Right, we've known for quite some time bp delay II caps at 30 seconds. Many hoped when we saw the 1200 point gift that it would lower bp recast delay further, because we wouldn't get 1200 job points for a gift that doesn't give us anything we don't already have right? ... :( Wording is often tricky with the game like how Geomancy + and Geomancer Skill + can mean VASTLY different things, so SE is usually very careful in labeling things consistently, the wording on the gifts makes one think it would not be the same category as BP delay 1 or BP delay II, but its own thing. Testing showed the 100 Gift behaved this way but, with the new bp delay II gear out as well as this 1200 gift, it really does make no change for SMN as a job at all.

@Ulth I didn't reply before b/c I didn't want the thread to devolve into arguing about other jobs but there's been time to calm down and it's becoming that anyway so I will touch on it:
MNK and DNC can claim to possibly have it worse, as in haste capped situations their 1200 gift actually hurts their TP gain. (Though this could be fixed if SE made a bug fix that lowering delay below delay cap won't effect tp gains since it won't effect the speed at which you swing either). THF I play THF a lot and never seen TH 13 yet, wondering if I'll ever see TH 14. However, no testing has been done on if it is different from other TH levels like TH 1 and 2 and 3 all behave a bit differently so impossible to say on that. A lot of jobs got great things for 1200 gifts, RDM got an 11 tic refresh, SCH got Helix II, PUP got more slots, that is why when someone mentioned earlier though other jobs I stated it's not a valid argument, because it is relative privation (also known as the not as bad as argument) meaning that it changes the topic and compares it to worse trying to persuade you by stating there are worse problems and that thus your argument has no weight. Parents often use it for example when you don't finish your food, stating there are starving kids in other countries so you should finish your food is actually a logical fallacy, just as stating SMN 1200 gift is fine because others have it worse is also a logical fallacy, to make it more obvious so would stating that 1200 gift is fine because there are bigger problems in the world like human trafficking. While it is true a few other jobs have worse 1200 gifts, and while it is true there are bigger problems in the world like human trafficking, neither is a valid argument against should SMN have a 1200 gift that impacts the job because they aren't related to the argument at all and the only reason it becomes a logical fallacy and persuades some ppl is because in the case of your dinner, there is a common thread of food and hunger and in the case of this there is a common thread of game balance and job changes. Logical fallacies are such because they are common mistakes in human thinking. That is why discussion of BST or MNK or THF here isn't fully relevant and more than a bit off topic, there isn't a reason any job should have a 1200 gift that doesn't help the job. Perhaps there is a big gift down the line that will make up for it and SE can't reveal that at this time, or maybe we'll get Siren as a summon, or who knows, but relative privation is a logical fallacy and if you wanna read more about it you can here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_relative_privation

[Ulth]

It's actually not a fallacy of relative privation. I was not dismissing your statement because there are other jobs that got worst gifts. Your statement was dismissed because the gift actually does do something, unlike the examples I gave, but you said it does nothing which was a false statement. The gift lowers the amount of bloodpact delay gear needed so it frees up inventory for other pieces of gear, which in a game where you need a set for everything is actually not that bad. I was actually tickled pink when I 109'd my empy feet and could put my chaac belt in storage.

By the way thanks for stawmanning my point into a fallacy fallacy. I like how you you do it right after appealing to emotions.

Please upvote the topic guys, it won't guarantee replies from the mods but it definitely helps. I have to admit this is really heartbreaking if smn gets 1200 JP and it basically does nothing for the job.
I wait on bated breath for the next one you accuse me of. Maybe it will anecdotal for talking about my chaac belt. Possibly ad hominem, or tu quoque for pointing out your fallacies? I know, you could skip the whole fallacy defense and report me for being off topic so I get banned! It wouldn't be the first time, so maybe you will get lucky and I will get permanently banned.

[bazookatooth]

I think a reasonable argument would have been "Hey look guys, they're gonna add a million more JP categories / Gifts, so this really isn't a terrible grand prize. It's just a stepping stone on a long journey to something (hopefully) better. SO don't act like it's the end of the world". All that other nonsense about how other jobs have it worse (why would they care?...), or how it allows you to use a different piece of gear (Which does nothing for you in precast anyways) is not really relevant to the conversation. Maybe you care about it, but people grinding 1200 JP on summoner don't. People want a reward at the end of the grind and this is not a good reward.

[Ulth]

I think a reasonable argument would have been "Hey look guys, they're gonna add a million more JP categories / Gifts, so this really isn't a terrible grand prize. It's just a stepping stone on a long journey to something (hopefully) better. SO don't act like it's the end of the world". All that other nonsense about how other jobs have it worse (why would they care?...), or how it allows you to use a different piece of gear (Which does nothing for you in precast anyways) is not really relevant to the conversation. Maybe you care about it, but people grinding 1200 JP on summoner don't. People want a reward at the end of the grind and this is not a good reward.

Or I could you know, point out how ridiculously over powered the gift they are asking for is. What they are asking for is the gifts to not count to the caps of 15 for bloodpact reduction I&II. If that were the case then bloodpact could be reduced 30 from gear, then an additional 10 from the gifts for a blood pact recast time of 20. Sure as of right now there is only enough gear for -14 bloodpact II, but 21 second bloodpacts is still a 42% increase in frequency of bloodpacts from the last update.

I'm sure some people might see smn being able to eventually get down to 20 second bloodpacts is putting them on par with bst's 10 second readys, but don't forget SE is in the process of finding ways to nerf bst.

As for it being worth the grind, have you seen smn's job point categories? Those are worth the grind on their own.

[bazookatooth]

Or I could you know, point out how ridiculously over powered the gift they are asking for is. What they are asking for is the gifts to not count to the caps of 15 for bloodpact reduction I&II. If that were the case then bloodpact could be reduced 30 from gear, then an additional 10 from the gifts for a blood pact recast time of 20. Sure as of right now there is only enough gear for -14 bloodpact II, but 21 second bloodpacts is still a 42% increase in frequency of bloodpacts from the last update.

I'm sure some people might see smn being able to eventually get down to 20 second bloodpacts is putting them on par with bst's 10 second readys, but don't forget SE is in the process of finding ways to nerf bst.

As for it being worth the grind, have you seen smn's job point categories? Those are worth the grind on their own.

There you go again blabbing about how this and that is overpowered. Get over it. People are leveling up. Grinding JP is the new leveling system. Stop expecting everything to stay the same. It isn't gonna happen. They're probably gonna add another 5 ~ 15 points to every JP category and a million gifts to go with it. 42% is nothing in the grand scheme of things. The sky isn't falling and all your irrelevant comparisons to other jobs don't matter. Stop trolling the forums asking for nerfs on stuff just because you don't play it.

[Ulth]

There you go again blabbing about how this and that is overpowered. Get over it. People are leveling up. Grinding JP is the new leveling system. Stop expecting everything to stay the same. It isn't gonna happen. They're probably gonna add another 5 ~ 15 points to every JP category and a million gifts to go with it. 42% is nothing in the grand scheme of things. The sky isn't falling and all your irrelevant comparisons to other jobs don't matter. Stop trolling the forums asking for nerfs on stuff just because you don't play it.

Hmm, I hate when people accuse me of things that I don't do, and I hate when people use trolling incorrectly. Trolling is basically trying to bait someone into getting mad. Sort of like what you just did with all those provocative personal attacks. I understand why someone would do it in a discussion. If you make the person with the opinion opposite of your own angry and they reply with something stupid it makes your stance look better by comparison. However I'm compelled to ask, is this just a ploy to win an argument, or do you really want to hurt me?

[Minikom]

A good gift to rep our bp timer -5 could be avatar + 2, increase avatar letting us to get 121 non nirvana y 123 to nirvana Ppl

[Dekusuta]

^^ Ding ding. 30 sec timer with 3 min apogee is I think reasonable now.

But compared to other jobs getting entire spells, I feel like even if the -5 BP TIMER wasn't broken we as summoners would still be short changed.

Given SE's lack of ambition with our job points and straight up trolling of BP +3 Damage line of job points abilities (really?) ; good final reward would be either BP -5 breaking 30 sec cap/ + avatar buffs; or straight up Avatar level +2

[bazookatooth]

^^ Ding ding. 30 sec timer with 3 min apogee is I think reasonable now.

But compared to other jobs getting entire spells, I feel like even if the -5 BP TIMER wasn't broken we as summoners would still be short changed.

Given SE's lack of ambition with our job points and straight up trolling of BP +3 Damage line of job points abilities (really?) ; good final reward would be either BP -5 breaking 30 sec cap/ + avatar buffs; or straight up Avatar level +2

It's not a final reward. they are still planning on adding more JP / Gifts.

[Dekusuta]

It's not a final reward. they are still planning on adding more JP / Gifts.

Does this comment really add anything? Semantics aside, this is very much a major milestone reward (if that makes your feel better);

[bazookatooth]

Does this comment really add anything? Semantics aside, this is very much a major milestone reward (if that makes your feel better);

I agree, it is a milestone. Unfortunately I don't think SE sees it the way you do. Different jobs gain powerful abilities at different points in their progression for what ever reason. It's just SE's way of doing things. Look at BST for example. At 100 JP, they have increased their damage by more than 33%. I doubt that the other 1,100 JPs combined equate to that boost from the first 100. The emnity points actually hurt them because the pet ends up tanking and dieing in group play because it generates so much hate. Same with DNC. They actually lose STP as a gift via dual wield that goes over the cap when the have buffs. Which because of trusts and non-soloable content is pretty much anywhere that isn't dynamis or salvage. A lot of these aren't well designed and should be changed, but it's hard to be mad about it when I know that it's all going to change in a month anyways. If it were up to me, it would break the 30 second cap. But, I'm guessing that the 2100 gift will be more significant.

[Clou777]

nope the 2100 is pretty much nothing special