The Game Is Ending... Can I get this please?

[StrumerJohn]

With the game finally coming to an end, and this already being out in a newer Final Fantasy,
can we please get same-gender marriage?


I'm not going to go all crazy like people on the FFXIV boards, but it shouldn't take too much tweaking and I'd really appreciate it---I'm sure a whole lot of other gamers would too... I've played this game for years and I'd like to finally be able to marry someone of the same-gender on here. Silly, I know, but it'd mean a lot for my favorite game to at least have this before it truly stops getting updates and just minor bug fixes/patches.

Thank you so much,
- Beloved FFXI fan.

[BBWallace]

I second this! I need to get marry to a rich daddy and divorce em and get the Gil.

[Bluestar2kx]

I don't agree with the game is ending part, but I do agree we need same sex marriages.

It would be really wonderful for my partner and I, who are both mithra, to be able to marry in game.
I always wanted to do so, esp now that i actually have the money in the game to afford it lol.

Come on square, FFXI team, it maybe a low priority thing for some people, but for others, it's climbing the list, as players in XIV showed.
Please? ^^

[YosemiteYogorockBlondelle]

The games not really coming to an end but it is for all console modes of play for this game... What my plans are is to continue playing ffxi after final major updates is to play old content, quests, even if any missions remain do them and other type of past content to clutch-er->catch it all up even it meagerly a very slow process after that point and I yet have two character's jobs to level, x2 still too.. Everything is being done twice and would be even more if i had more then just 2 characters that I could afford without much a real job still lol

One thing i'm glad there finally touching up on this month is a few very old first game days content-er-> quests this month, finally maybe i'll be able to complete them solo, i hope... even call trusts into them and have it count it as part of the party..

[Stompa]

I agree that you should be able to marry the person you love regardless of anything. However I do understand why FFXI was hetero-based. It is set in a medieval era, and in those days marriage meant procreation, that is all it was. Marriage was used to control baby-manufacture lol, to keep it in some kind of orderly fashion. So it was historically accurate that FFXI was based on this original true form of marriage. But I think love is more important than historical accuracy, and give you a Like for your OP. Also of course a lot of mithra are guys, so a mithra-mithra marriage would allow them to marry their RL wives/Gfs.

[kaerin]

Why do social justice warriors feel the need to push their agenda everywhere? You don't see Christians or Muslims crying they want Jesus and mohammod added as alternative in game religions to the worship of altana... Why can't you just let it go? Its not important. Stop trying to bring your real world problems into the games people play to escape from those things.

[BBWallace]

Why do social justice warriors feel the need to push their agenda everywhere? You don't see Christians or Muslims crying they want Jesus and mohammod added as alternative in game religions to the worship of altana... Why can't you just let it go? Its not important. Stop trying to bring your real world problems into the games people play to escape from those things.

What the hell are you talking about? He asked for a simple request politely. No need to bring your bitter self up in here. And obviously other people agreed with this sediment.

[Stompa]

Why do social justice warriors feel the need to push their agenda everywhere? You don't see Christians or Muslims crying they want Jesus and mohammod added as alternative in game religions to the worship of altana... Why can't you just let it go? Its not important. Stop trying to bring your real world problems into the games people play to escape from those things.

Its not about the name of deities or prophets, or even religion at all. It is not about social justice warriors. It is just about love, and the simple scientific fact that boys fall in love with boys, and girls fall in love with girls. It is both natural and scientific. There's no getting around the basic reality of it.

I would also say that I play videogames for a lot of reasons, but escaping from a world with gay people in it, is certainly not one of the reasons. It is possible to be happy in the real world, and be happy in videogames, and no escaping involved anywhere.

You should also know that the reason 'social justice warriors' exist at all, is because a large number of gay people have been killed by bigots, or driven to suicide, just for being in love with a same-gender person. You don't have to be a social activist to feel sorrowful about this. The whole drive of protecting LGBT rights online, and in videogames, is a response to centuries of persecution and slayings.

As I said before, I see why FFXI had normal traditional marriage only, as it is a medieval setting. So it makes sense from a historical perspective. But at the same time it is a videogame with paying customers, and a business model where *all customers have equal rights* is just the basic default setting for most successful business models. Excluding some of your customers just because of who they love, is business sense Failga IV.

[SMD111]

Its not about the name of deities or prophets, or even religion at all. It is not about social justice warriors. It is just about love, and the simple scientific fact that boys fall in love with boys, and girls fall in love with girls. It is both natural and scientific. There's no getting around the basic reality of it.

I would also say that I play videogames for a lot of reasons, but escaping from a world with gay people in it, is certainly not one of the reasons. It is possible to be happy in the real world, and be happy in videogames, and no escaping involved anywhere.

You should also know that the reason 'social justice warriors' exist at all, is because a large number of gay people have been killed by bigots, or driven to suicide, just for being in love with a same-gender person. You don't have to be a social activist to feel sorrowful about this. The whole drive of protecting LGBT rights online, and in videogames, is a response to centuries of persecution and slayings.

As I said before, I see why FFXI had normal traditional marriage only, as it is a medieval setting. So it makes sense from a historical perspective. But at the same time it is a videogame with paying customers, and a business model where *all customers have equal rights* is just the basic default setting for most successful business models. Excluding some of your customers just because of who they love, is business sense Failga IV.

Square is a Japanese company and here is the law in Japan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Japan
with just this line
"As of 2000, sexual orientation is not protected by national civil rights laws, which means that LGBT Japanese have no legal recourse when they face such discrimination in such areas as employment, education, housing, health care, and banking."
LGBT's have no protection in Japan so SE has no requirements to do any thing about it thay can do anything thay want no mater what you want(when it comes to LGBT)
also in Japan LGBT is not discussed in public

not to mention there are countries that have outright outlawed being LGBT and if Square wants to keep selling things in thoes countries thay have to keep it out of there products

[Stompa]

Square is a Japanese company and here is the law in Japan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Japan
with just this line
"As of 2000, sexual orientation is not protected by national civil rights laws, which means that LGBT Japanese have no legal recourse when they face such discrimination in such areas as employment, education, housing, health care, and banking."
LGBT's have no protection in Japan so SE has no requirements to do any thing about it thay can do anything thay want no mater what you want(when it comes to LGBT)
also in Japan LGBT is not discussed in public

not to mention there are countries that have outright outlawed being LGBT and if Square wants to keep selling things in thoes countries thay have to keep it out of there products

Many parts of Asia that have traditional conservative politics, are also countries that traditionally believe in privacy, and what goes on in your personal life is your business. The laws are focused on stopping public indecency, and especially pornography. Private life is traditonally kept private.

There is a difference between the political or religious culture which states that such acts are not tolerated in society, and the act of two tarutaru boys exchanging rings in a virtual wedding. This is not the same as gambling laws, which govern online gambling and clashed with the mogbonanza. There is no actual law that says two tarutaru boys can not attend a virtual wedding.

I'm not LGBT, so I don't have a horse in this race at all. And SE will do whatever they feel most comfortable with. I was just saying that my own view is that if two taru boys want to marry in game, I don't see how it hurts anyone.

[SMD111]

I'm not LGBT, so I don't have a horse in this race at all. And SE will do whatever they feel most comfortable with. I was just saying that my own view is that if two taru boys want to marry in game, I don't see how it hurts anyone.

i agree but its still se's decision and if thay dont want to allow it thay dont have to

[kaerin]

Its not about the name of deities or prophets, or even religion at all. It is not about social justice warriors. It is just about love, and the simple scientific fact that people fall in love with God, and God loves them. It is both natural and scientific. There's no getting around the basic reality of it.

I would also say that I play videogames for a lot of reasons, but escaping from a world with religious people in it, is certainly not one of the reasons. It is possible to be happy in the real world, and be happy in videogames, and no escaping involved anywhere.

You should also know that the reason 'social justice warriors' exist at all, is because a large number of christians have been killed by bigots, or driven to suicide, just for being a christian, in fact, believers in the God of Abraham are the most persecuted group of people in the history of the world. You don't have to be a social activist to feel sorrowful about this. The whole drive of protecting christian rights online, and in videogames, is a response to centuries of persecution and slayings.

As I said before, I see why FFXI has a fictional religion, as it is a fantasy setting. So it makes sense from a fantasy storytelling perspective. But at the same time it is a videogame with paying customers, and a business model where *all customers have equal rights* is just the basic default setting for most successful business models. So they might as well just add Christianity, excluding some of your customers just because of who they love, is business sense Failga IV.



Maybe like this you will understand why your argument is silly?

[Roja323]

Its not about the name of deities or prophets, or even religion at all. It is not about social justice warriors. It is just about love, and the simple scientific fact that people fall in love with God, and God loves them. It is both natural and scientific. There's no getting around the basic reality of it.


You had me until you tried to say its scientific to love a god. If you believe in any god, great good for you, but don't tarnish science by saying its scientific to love god. I get your trying to spoof a previous post, but no...just no.

By that logic, if my dog cant go to heaven, then god has no heart, and that is science!

[Stompa]

Its not about the name of deities or prophets, or even religion at all. It is not about social justice warriors. It is just about love, and the simple scientific fact that people fall in love with God, and God loves them. It is both natural and scientific. There's no getting around the basic reality of it.

I would also say that I play videogames for a lot of reasons, but escaping from a world with religious people in it, is certainly not one of the reasons. It is possible to be happy in the real world, and be happy in videogames, and no escaping involved anywhere.

You should also know that the reason 'social justice warriors' exist at all, is because a large number of christians have been killed by bigots, or driven to suicide, just for being a christian, in fact, believers in the God of Abraham are the most persecuted group of people in the history of the world. You don't have to be a social activist to feel sorrowful about this. The whole drive of protecting christian rights online, and in videogames, is a response to centuries of persecution and slayings.

As I said before, I see why FFXI has a fictional religion, as it is a fantasy setting. So it makes sense from a fantasy storytelling perspective. But at the same time it is a videogame with paying customers, and a business model where *all customers have equal rights* is just the basic default setting for most successful business models. So they might as well just add Christianity, excluding some of your customers just because of who they love, is business sense Failga IV.



Maybe like this you will understand why your argument is silly?


No, I don't understand at all.

You seem to be saying you are religious and you love God. Some of my dearest friends are Christians. I have friends from all religions. I also have friends who are gay people. In my world-view, it is possible to admire and befriend different groups of people at the same time, regardless of their religion or lifestyle.

I have over 13mil posts on my Social Science bulletin-board which I've been a member of since 1989. It is a closed-group board for sociologists, many of us have written books on religion, history and culture. I have studied and written a lot on religion.

I will keep it simple and just say to you that our current main religions have been around for several thousand years, whereas gay people have been around for several hundred thousand years. It has been proven that our earliest tribal ancestors recognised that some people were attracted to same-gender partners, and in those earliest goddess-worshipping lunar cultures, discrimination towards others for sexuality was literally not possible due to the nature of the tribal unit. Art and later writings show that these tribes were very harmonious and open-minded towards this issue.

I also recognise that historically, the man/wife marriage model only arrived recently, at the same time as domestication of livestock, and the building of the first castles. Before that time, humans hunted wild animals, were nomadic, and had lunar tribal unions. The interesting fact is that the ownership concept of 'my land' and 'my animals' arrived at the same historical time as the concept of 'my wife'. Modern religion arrived even later. These are all new concepts, compared to the pagan nomadic tribal era that comprised most of human history. And in that vast expanse of human historical time, gays not only existed but were accepted as normal members of the tribe.

It is great that you love God, and I hope that your Christianity brings you great joy and peace in your life. But I still think it would be nice if the tarutaru in the OP could marry the person they love!

[BBWallace]

No, I don't understand at all.

You seem to be saying you are religious and you love God. Some of my dearest friends are Christians. I have friends from all religions. I also have friends who are gay people. In my world-view, it is possible to admire and befriend different groups of people at the same time, regardless of their religion or lifestyle.

I have over 13mil posts on my Social Science bulletin-board which I've been a member of since 1989. It is a closed-group board for sociologists, many of us have written books on religion, history and culture. I have studied and written a lot on religion.

I will keep it simple and just say to you that our current main religions have been around for several thousand years, whereas gay people have been around for several hundred thousand years. It has been proven that our earliest tribal ancestors recognised that some people were attracted to same-gender partners, and in those earliest goddess-worshipping lunar cultures, discrimination towards others for sexuality was literally not possible due to the nature of the tribal unit. Art and later writings show that these tribes were very harmonious and open-minded towards this issue.

I also recognise that historically, the man/wife marriage model only arrived recently, at the same time as domestication of livestock, and the building of the first castles. Before that time, humans hunted wild animals, were nomadic, and had lunar tribal unions. The interesting fact is that the ownership concept of 'my land' and 'my animals' arrived at the same historical time as the concept of 'my wife'. Modern religion arrived even later. These are all new concepts, compared to the pagan nomadic tribal era that comprised most of human history. And in that vast expanse of human historical time, gays not only existed but were accepted as normal members of the tribe.

It is great that you love God, and I hope that your Christianity brings you great joy and peace in your life. But I still think it would be nice if the tarutaru in the OP could marry the person they love!

!!!!!!!
/endthread

[Rainehx]

With the game finally coming to an end, and this already being out in a newer Final Fantasy,
can we please get same-gender marriage?


I'm not going to go all crazy like people on the FFXIV boards, but it shouldn't take too much tweaking and I'd really appreciate it---I'm sure a whole lot of other gamers would too... I've played this game for years and I'd like to finally be able to marry someone of the same-gender on here. Silly, I know, but it'd mean a lot for my favorite game to at least have this before it truly stops getting updates and just minor bug fixes/patches.

Thank you so much,
- Beloved FFXI fan.

The game is not ending, updates are... if that means youll be no longer interested in the game, and not bothered to continue playing that's fine, thats up to you.

But how about we dont use the whole "the game is ending so...." to ruin the game for those who actually do love this game and the people in it rather than the latest shiny items, those that still played when updates stopped before and kept the game alive, those who intend on continuing playing, rather than messing the game up even more than it is.
.
I personally have no issue with same sex irl or online, but just because the game will be over for you... its not a reason to change / spam forums in the attempt to change the game, like some seem to be doing.

[Roja323]

The game is not ending, updates are... if that means youll be no longer interested in the game, and not bothered to continue playing that's fine, thats up to you.

But how about we dont use the whole "the game is ending so...." to ruin the game for those who actually do love this game and the people in it rather than the latest shiny items, those that still played when updates stopped before and kept the game alive, those who intend on continuing playing, rather than messing the game up even more than it is.
.
I personally have no issue with same sex irl or online, but just because the game will be over for you... its not a reason to change / spam forums in the attempt to change the game, like some seem to be doing.

I am getting mixed signals from you. You imply that adding same sex marriage would ruin the game and that there is no reason to change the status quo.

Like it or not, the updates stop in November. It might not be the servers shutting down, but that's pretty much game over for 99% of the population once they finish w/e they are currently working on. No updates and no new content, for a game you have to pay to play monthly is pretty much the equivalence of a game being done.

[Zarchery]

It seems like a total non-issue. At least in real life there are practical legal reasons to get married. In game it's what? A cutscene and a couple signed rings?

I don't really see what the ending of the game has to do with it though.

[kaerin]

Thats quiet the potty mouth you have urtdiger, very becoming for someone who brags about being a mod and should be above name calling since youre trying to claim the moral high ground. Did I upset your delicate sensibilities? lol

[SMD111]

Religious beliefs aside the op's request has some merit but in Japanese society sex or sexual orientation is just not discussed in public and MMORPG's are a vary public space so the likelihood of se adding any thing like this is almost moot not to mention the fact that se is a Japan based company and in japan the is no marriage between same sex couples even tho there are no social stigmas against it

and so you know im not gay but i am a Wiccan(so you know ware im coming from)

[Roja323]

You forgot that FF14 allows it, and they are owned by....SE a japanese based company..../shock

[Urthdigger]

Thats quiet the potty mouth you have urtdiger, very becoming for someone who brags about being a mod and should be above name calling since youre trying to claim the moral high ground. Did I upset your delicate sensibilities? lol

Upset? Far from it. I find it amusing that you tried to call me out on assuming you're Christian, when the only alternatives for your stance are far worse. You've left your stance with no leg to stand on, cutting away your only reasonable explanation for objecting.

As for my potty mouth, it is the stuff of legend among the rest of my staff. Chat filters exist for a reason.

Anyway, back on topic, that's a good point about same-sex marriage being in FFXIV. SE clearly doesn't personally object in that case. I imagine they were likely skeptical of allowing it back when marriage first came out due to the different political climate, but now? There's no reason not to, and this seems like precisely the kind of tiny update they can do even once the PS2 dev kits are gone.

[kaerin]

Upset? Far from it. I find it amusing that you tried to call me out on assuming you're Christian, when the only alternatives for your stance are far worse. You've left your stance with no leg to stand on, cutting away your only reasonable explanation for objecting.

As for my potty mouth, it is the stuff of legend among the rest of my staff. Chat filters exist for a reason.

Ive stated repeatedly why Im against it.
I hate SJWs and how they have to impose themselves and their values into everything. If you learn reading comprehension one day, you'll know how silly you look right now, since Ive said that 3 or 4 times.


You forgot that FF14 allows it, and they are owned by....SE a japanese based company..../shock

They... actually dont, but you have to read into what they did to understand. They didnt actually add marriage to the game.

[kaerin]

If you are a christian, and gay people getting married doesn't directly affect you, why do you care? No one is forcing you to marry a gay. What do you gain as a christian by discriminating?

Adding random stuff to the game at this point does directly affect me. And everyone else who plays. I would rather have more escha NMs and unity NMs, and everything else they plan to add before ending development than having the devs waste time changing something that can be simply worked around by creating a mule of the opposite gender to grab the ring on.

[Roja323]

They... actually dont, but you have to read into what they did to understand. They didnt actually add marriage to the game.

They...actually do, patch 2.4

[SMD111]

Anyway, back on topic, that's a good point about same-sex marriage being in FFXIV.

now this i did not know as i dont care for FFIV
but there might be something that preventing them from doing this with ffxi like
1 .maby the coding for marriage is un-commented so thay cant find it
2. thay tried it and it bug the game to much or even made it impossible to marry entirely

[Olor]

I thought they discontinued all official wedding support in XI a long time ago.

Of course, being queer, I support the OP, but I don't think they do weddings at all anymore.

[kaerin]

The funniest part of all this is that Person X engages in the very modern notion of "being offended" and says this is because of their very modern religion, and uses it to criticise something that has been a mainstream cultural norm since the very earliest days of our species, ie. gay/bisexual people.

At no point did I say I was offended by anything due to my religion. I also have yet to even claim what my religion is, or if I even am religious. And I even specifically talk about 3 separate religions. You're projecting onto me what you want you want to be there so you can make longwinded posts from your high place. Which is typical liberal BS. Spew fake made-up facts with no evidence to support them and claim the moral high ground while judging others based on things they didn't say, because you don't know how to read or comprehend anything that doesn't follow your world view.

What's next, you going to tell us about the wage gap? (the one that doesn't actually exist I mean, where women make 76 cents or whatever for every dollar a man makes)

[Roja323]

At no point did I say I was offended by anything due to my religion. I also have yet to even claim what my religion is, or if I even am religious. And I even specifically talk about 3 separate religions. You're projecting onto me what you want you want to be there so you can make longwinded posts from your high place. Which is typical liberal BS. Spew fake made-up facts with no evidence to support them and claim the moral high ground while judging others based on things they didn't say, because you don't know how to read or comprehend anything that doesn't follow your world view.

What's next, you going to tell us about the wage gap? (the one that doesn't actually exist I mean, where women make 76 cents or whatever for every dollar a man makes)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap

You mean that wage gap? I guess when your religous, its easy to argue with science and numbers...

[Roja323]

So let me guess, global warming isn't real either?

[Zeargi]

Which is typical liberal BS.

You may not be telling which religion you are, but you most definitely belie yourself with your vernacular.

On topic, I support the OP, because I believe that EVERYONE is entitled to be happy and have love, and long as as your happiness doesn't come at the cost of someone else's. And if you think that this impacts your happiness then you need to take a deep look inward, because, it doesn't affect you in the slightest. You CHOOSE to let it.

And just to cause problems: Global Warming is wrong~! OK-AY BYE~!! *runs off to play the game*

[Seillan]

Why do social justice warriors feel the need to push their agenda everywhere? You don't see Christians or Muslims crying they want Jesus and mohammod added as alternative in game religions to the worship of altana... Why can't you just let it go? Its not important. Stop trying to bring your real world problems into the games people play to escape from those things.

I often wonder what it's like to be filled with such hate for a particular group. I imagine it's a sad, angry experience the likes of which I'd never envy. I wager it's also becoming a quite lonely experience as well, as the mindset you exhibit continues to shrink within civilized societies around the world. How sad for you.

[kaerin]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap

You mean that wage gap? I guess when your religous, its easy to argue with science and numbers...

All the "pay gap" says is that if you add together all the money women make and divide it by the number of women counted you get 76 cents for every dollar men make when you count their earnings the same way. There is no other measurements brought into it. Like the fact that women work less than 40 hours a week on average and men work more than 40. That alone would put men above women if they made the same amount per hour. It also doesn't take into account the work that men and women do. Women are far less likely to apply for and do dangerous or labor intensive jobs, that you know, pay more. Women are far more likely to take easier jobs with more time off. The reason women make less is that they choose to make less. And if you look at the hourly wages of men and women in the same fields for the same length of time, you find that young women actually make more per hour worked than young men. But then, youre a liberal, I wouldnt expect you to know anything.


So let me guess, global warming isn't real either?

The concept of man made global warming is false. Want to know the best way to tell? Look at the actions of the people who support it. They claim it's a crisis with their words, then don't treat it like one. If Al Gore really thought the ocean was going to swallow up the coast in a few years, he wouldnt of spent all those millions of dollars on a house on the Californian ocean beachfront. If Leonardo Dicaprio really thought carbon emissions were bad, he wouldnt have flown his private jet from California to NY to march in a parade against it. It's the little things that give it away.... Not just the big things, like how there's more ice in Antarctica than there ever has been since we've been keeping track with satellites, and the amount keeps going up every year, and has been for many years... (it started in 1976 I believe) while "global warmers" scream its all melting, and according to Al Gores movie it should of all melted by now.

[SMD111]

@kaerin
1.the Gender pay gap is real the correct calculation to use is ((FTw/FTh)/FCp) = FHr ((MTw/MTh)/MCp) = MHr MHr-FHr = pay gap
(key: F = female M = Male Tw = Total Wages Cp = counted people Th = total hours Hr = average hourly wage)

2. Global Warming is real in the last 100 years the mean temperature of the earth has gone up by between 1 and 1.75 degrees
(mean temperature = the average temperature of the entire earth)
here is the NOAA report http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2015/noaa-analysis-journal-science-no-slowdown-in-global-warming-in-recent-years.html

3. i could prove what your religion is in only a few words but then id seem like a prick

[kaerin]

@kaerin
1.the Gender pay gap is real the correct calculation to use is ((FTw/FTh)/FCp) = FHr ((MTw/MTh)/MCp) = MHr MHr-FHr = pay gap
(key: F = female M = Male Tw = Total Wages Cp = counted people Th = total hours Hr = average hourly wage)

2. Global Warming is real in the last 100 years the mean temperature of the earth has gone up by between 1 and 1.75 degrees
(mean temperature = the average temperature of the entire earth)
here is the NOAA report http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2015/noaa-analysis-journal-science-no-slowdown-in-global-warming-in-recent-years.html

3. i could prove what your religion is in only a few words but then id seem like a prick


Even Time magazine says the pay gap isn't real.
http://time.com/3222543/5-feminist-myths-that-will-not-die/

"No matter how many times this wage gap claim is decisively refuted by economists, it always comes back. The bottom line: the 23-cent gender pay gap is simply the difference between the average earnings of all men and women working full-time. It does not account for differences in occupations, positions, education, job tenure or hours worked per week. When such relevant factors are considered, the wage gap narrows to the point of vanishing."

And I said "Man made global warming" The earth does what it wants, how it wants. How many ice ages have we had again? because each of those were followed by devastating periods of "global warming"... right? And I dont think people with big cars and factories and whatnot were around then to cause it...

[SMD111]

as far as the Gender pay gap ill revise my previous post with this
(average hourly rate of men) - (average hourly rate of woman) = pay gap
and you will see that in fact women make less the men

also Time is a conservative mag not neutral so i cant and wont believe what thay say

i find the facts and figure it out on my own with my own brain i dont listen to others opinions like you obviously do


And I said "Man made global warming" The earth does what it wants, how it wants. How many ice ages have we had again? because each of those were followed by devastating periods of "global warming"... right? And I dont think people with big cars and factories and whatnot were around then to cause it...

no the study is man made global warming sence the industrial revolution started in the late 1800's befor the industrial revolution the temps were falling but as soon as the industrial revolution started the temps started going up faster then any time before even in pre history(yes we do have this data because it in trees[tree rings] and ice cores[pulled from the poles]) thus the only reason could be man

[Roja323]

At this point im done with this kaerin, i support the OP, but you can't argue with someone who is so religious they dont believe in science. They have shown on multiple occasions to be a biggot, and that they prefer to live in ignorance.

[SMD111]

At this point im done with this kaerin, i support the OP, but you can't argue with someone who is so religious they dont believe in science. They have shown on multiple occasions to be a biggot, and that they prefer to live in ignorance.

agreed
on a side note the U.S. Supreme Court just put in to law that all states must allow same sex marriage and no state can say no
how ever this has no berring on this forum i just thought id post it

[Yelioblutebya]

Greetings,

I understand your interest in discussing same sex marriage in game However, I noticed this thread has gotten quite off topic. Due to the nature of the subject, many posts are becoming controversial and derailing from the original discussion. I will be closing this thread.

GM Yelioblutebya