Healing enmity is currently ridiculous

[Fynlar]

I don't know what compelled you guys to not address this in the March patch (well, more like it was addressed, via complete inaction) but unless white mages are supposed to be tanks or something I really think this is something that needs looking in to.

At least, I'm pretty sure I'm not supposed to be tanking nearly every sort of semi-serious fight I've been doing on my WHM lately.

[Tidis]

Are you healing in -50 enmity or close? Are your DDs /war, in which case can open with a Provoke? Simply put SE changed it so melee damage has much reduced enmity generating capabilities, which considering how easy it was to cap hate in a zerg situation was an understandable change.

Generally speaking, once DDs start WSing you shouldn't really have issues with pulling hate just curing.

[Fynlar]

Are you healing in -50 enmity or close?Not without severely gimping myself. Also, friends I've talked to who do have actual -enmity sets say they don't even notice any difference with them, which doesn't surprise me considering how much more threat healing seems to pull nowadays (compared to everything else, that is)


Simply put SE changed it so melee damage has much reduced enmity generating capabilities,I am aware of this. My beef is about how they didn't do jack to healing enmity.


Generally speaking, once DDs start WSing you shouldn't really have issues with pulling hate just curing. This has not been the case for me at all. I'm talking about tanking the *entire* fight (unless I die, which kinda happens a lot)

Oh, and what's even worse? Sometimes after I die (while being the target of the mob, meaning I should lose all of my threat, right?) and getting back into the fight, I often find myself just immediately pulling hate (and dying again) with a couple Cure 3s. This is after the fight has been going on for a while and everyone else fighting it should have already had well enough time to establish a threat level more than a couple of weak Cures, which just tells me that whatever threat everyone else is generating is merely quickly dissipating, possibly from taking the crazy amounts of damage that I'm supposed to be healing through, if I only could.

If nobody else can see anything seriously wrong with this picture, well, I don't know what to tell you.

Whatever they did to "fix" DD threat though, they went way overboard (as has been the case with many other things in this game's history, so I don't know why I'm all that surprised) and now the problem just lies with healers instead. Trade in one problem, replace with another.

[jbtexan]

i have to agree, when SE put this patch in they did something that really needs to be undone. before the patch, a tojil run was easy. now, 2 mnk/war cant keep hate off whm while spamming provoke and ws. i have seen this many times since march and the difference (pre patch vs post patch) is very obvious. when doing high tier battlefields, whm pulls hate from a pld spamming flash and provoke with 2 rngs feeding him hate with decoy shot with a couple of cures. emnity is broken, and needs to be fixed IMO.

[Tidis]

I hate to be critical of these DDs+PLD you play with but I have only ever seen WHMs pull hate on a small amount of pure melee damage and if a PLD is spamming voke and flash a WHM should never pull hate by just curing, the VE generated by those 2 abilities is far more potent than any cures a WHM can throw out.

So I again go back to suggesting on making a -50 enmity set for WHM, yes it will gimp your optimal cure set but your optimal cure set is getting you hate apparently, it's the same as DDs making a PDT-TP hybrid set, gimps their damage but helps them survive.

So is it broken? I dual boxed Achuka PLD+WHM last week and my WHM alt never pulled hate, not during Lahar, not after full dispel, never, the only time I ever seem to lose hate is when I purely melee but that comes back to not using JAs/WS.

[Fynlar]

the VE generated by those 2 abilities is far more potent than any cures a WHM can throw out.If the PLD is the only person you have to cure, maybe.

If you have a rest of the frontline to manage too? Absolutely not.


So I again go back to suggesting on making a -50 enmity set for WHM, yes it will gimp your optimal cure set but your optimal cure set is getting you hate apparently, it's the same as DDs making a PDT-TP hybrid set, gimps their damage but helps them survive.Again, I'm hearing even the healers with enmity sets are still pulling threat regularly, so, until I can get some actual confirmation that this actually works, I'm not really inclined to bother.

If anything, the gear set I'm more inclined to try to make is more PDT stuff for *myself* because I at least know that when I inevitably pull hate, that can at least help me survive.

Still, the mere fact that I have to go into fights now as a healer fully expecting to pull hate and having to tank means something is still wrong with the current system.

[Tidis]

What situations are you always pulling hate? Because unlike you I'm seeing WHMs tanking none of the time, I will be fair and say I haven't done a whole lot of group activity lately but in a Morimar Delve run we had 2 THFs and a MNK, unconventional set up but we won, did that 4 times and the WHM never pulled hate, in my earlier Achuka example my WHM alt was regularly curing trusts as they were in AoE range and never pulled hate.

[Ulth]

Are you doing any self cures on pld? Because that is a great way for pld to keep hate. We have been telling this to the plds in our ls since the update, and that they really need to put together a self cure set. As for your set up 2 thfs and a mnk, yeah I can imagine the mnk keeping hate in that situation. What with the thfs putting around half their ws damage hate on the mnk. Technically speaking this update has been really nice to thf since we have some enmity control. Trick attack lets us focus hate on just 1 DD, and if shit does hit the fan we can run to the whm and use Collaborator when they pull hate. Still annoying that we can't be proactive with Collaborator because of the low range. I guess you could tell the whm to run in every minute for a collaborator, but that seems dangerous. But anyway while I like being thf at every event, I doubt everyone on ffxi feels that way. So I'm on board with a change to healing enmity.

[dasva]

The reason they didn't change healing is because tanks had plenty of tools to keep hate and they want tanks to actually matter so were hoping to make it hard for melees to tank but not for tanks. And they succeeded. Since the update both my run and my pld have yet to lose hate for any significant times outside of reset moves (occasionally will start to head for someone if I'm not paying attention but can flash it right back). I don't even use provoke as I usually /run for pld and /sam for run. It's to the point where I on after the first minute or 2 on an nm after I've established some enmity I'll sometimes take quick afks and end up mostly just waiting to lose hate to use enmity moves or trying to actually DD on pld lol. Even reset moves haven't been that bad to the point where I'd stop trying to avoid some of the avoidable ones while dual boxing (like blink of peril). Also tanked as DDs for various nms too. Only time whms seem to consistently was when they were spamming curagas... which they should be pulling hate if they do that and is more a sign of your dds need some dt sets or you need to re-evaluate how you are fighting. And if you have a pld or run they need to start mitigating more of their dmg/enmity loss and gaining more (and you might want to buff them so they can)

[Fynlar]

What situations are you always pulling hate? Virtually every Delve NM / hard mode BCNM I have fought since the patch. Especially the MBs.


The reason they didn't change healing is because tanks had plenty of tools to keep hate and they want tanks to actually matter so were hoping to make it hard for melees to tank but not for tanks.Again, I know the reason they made this change. But it was half baked, and now the problem just lies with the healers instead of the DDs. Nothing is really fixed, in my opinion. If anything, the problem is WORSE now because it's more annoying for a mage to be pulling aggro than a frontline DD because that usually means a moving mob. Not to mention the fact that, y'know, a DD getting killed usually isn't a big deal. A healer getting killed often is.

Don't forget also that this enmity reduction on damage has also made it harder for *tanks* to build threat, too, so it's not like they were only buffed with those enmity+ spells/JAs and whatnot.

[Selindrile]

I guess I'm somewhere in the middle, I think the enmity change is better than the previous system, but I still think healing generates too much enmity, it's fine when you have a Pld for the most part, unless you're having to cure a lot, but when you've got DDs instead of a PLD, it's extremely hard to keep hate off the mages if you're doing any real sort of healing.

Just cutting it in half or so would do wonders.

[Kensagaku]

I'm somewhere in the middle on this as well, though I lean a bit more towards liking this change.

A lot of the argument comes up as "DDs aren't holding hate because damage doesn't generate enough enmity, while healing generates too much." To an extent, I agree with this, but I think it is intended. A lot of our current setups tend to have DDs tank everything and just smash things to hold hate. In the new model that they're trying to push, it seems like SE wants us to bring an actual tank to the table. Both of the tanks (I sadly don't include NIN, as they've moved to more of a DD role) have several very powerful hate-drawing moves and a plethora of enmity+ gear to increase the amount gained and reduce the amount lost. A good tank with enmity+ gear paired with a good healer with enmity- gear should be a generally viable setup. Now I know the current situation isn't perfect and enmity might still be a little high for healing even with this in mind, but I think we need to examine it with the model of an actual tank in place instead of just a party of DDs + support + healer.

I sort of find it funny how the complaint has shifted from "tanks are worthless because DDs cap hate in no time" to "DDs can't keep hate from doing damage anymore". Not that it's not justified, just sort of funny.

[Fynlar]

Just to make my stance clear, I don't hate what they've already done. I like how they at least attempted to make the tank jobs viable.

As it stands though, healing pulls so much more aggro compared to damage that right now the changes they've done feel incomplete. The more incoming AoE damage there is + the more of a frontline you have in a fight, the more this sort of thing is noticeable.

[Raydeus]

On the bright side Kupipi is one heck of a tank. XD




...until she runs out of mp and dies a horrible death.

[dasva]

Virtually every Delve NM / hard mode BCNM I have fought since the patch. Especially the MBs.

Again, I know the reason they made this change. But it was half baked, and now the problem just lies with the healers instead of the DDs. Nothing is really fixed, in my opinion. If anything, the problem is WORSE now because it's more annoying for a mage to be pulling aggro than a frontline DD because that usually means a moving mob. Not to mention the fact that, y'know, a DD getting killed usually isn't a big deal. A healer getting killed often is.

Don't forget also that this enmity reduction on damage has also made it harder for *tanks* to build threat, too, so it's not like they were only buffed with those enmity+ spells/JAs and whatnot.

Again while it might be annoying I'm arguing that a mage that is repeatedly healing several non tanking DDs should be seen as a bigger threat than any of those DDs from a logical and game balance standpoint. In the old days you were limited in your ability to heal by mp/refresh now you can throw out near infinite cures but you might pull hate. Both are limits designed for you to play around so you don't just have the throw dds and whms at it mentality.

The reason this seems like such a huge problem now is because SE had let the hate system basically not matter for almost a decade now and many forget that once upon a time part of strategizing for fights was how to manage enmity and often by extension how much dmg is being taken and so most DDs either wore some dt, /nin for shadows, or didn't stay in the range of AoEs the whole time or sometimes even at all. Of course one problem with that in the current meta is SE has been designing mobs that require decent amounts of dps so the strategies based on doing bursts of dmg now and then like say saca cannonball of old wouldn't work unless they are really huge bursts. And that kind of hurts non ranged/pet dds. Of course another solution is just to bring as much support as DDs...

[Grekumah]

We currently have no plans to make adjustments to the amount of enmity gained through healing-based measures. With the recent adjustments made to enmity, we believe players have and will continue to adapt to the increased stability of battle. Players who are in a tanking role can manage their skills more efficiently, which helps maintain enmity in conjunction with damage dealing.

[Olor]

Curious because these changes happened while I was gone, do regens etc pull a lot of hate? Or just cures?

I did notice the changes (good to know I'm not nuts) on BST when I weaponskilled and snarled and then ripped hate from my pet with a healing waltz... pretty annoying tbh... guess gotta snarl after waltz now.

[jbtexan]

my main beef with this change is that it makes certain job abilities useless on pet jobs. sure, you can cure yourself, but snarl might as well not be there. it was made a JA for a reason with it being highly used and they completely undermined it with that patch. i should never pull hate off my pet after 2 or 3 WSs and a snarl. one healing waltz 3 later, i find that i just wasted snarl when i take hate off pet and now have to wait for the timer. and now pets, automatons, and avatars just get attacked randomly also. whoever thought that would help the game was on crack. all that does it make the game annoying and completely changes the dynamics of pet jobs. pets have never caught aggro before, so why start now? makes no sense.

[Fynlar]

We currently have no plans to make adjustments to the amount of enmity gained through healing-based measures. With the recent adjustments made to enmity, we believe players have and will continue to adapt to the increased stability of battle. Players who are in a tanking role can manage their skills more efficiently, which helps maintain enmity in conjunction with damage dealing.

I've since "adapted" by retiring my healer classes, and if you really plan to do nothing about this very obvious problem, it would seem I made the right choice.

Increased stability is a joke, considering how enmity is more fragile than it's ever been before.

[Kraggy]

We currently have no plans to make adjustments to the amount of enmity gained through healing-based measures. With the recent adjustments made to enmity, we believe players have and will continue to adapt to the increased stability of battle. Players who are in a tanking role can manage their skills more efficiently, which helps maintain enmity in conjunction with damage dealing.
I wonder, do any of the devs responsible for this screwed-up change actually PLAY healers?

[jbtexan]

prolly not. and i take back what i said about the devs being on crack. thats not fair to crackheads. they should be required to play the jobs that they screw up with their idea of "stability". this patch has caused way more problems for the players than it ever solved and if devs cant realize that then they should go back to work for toys r us. this kinda thing is what is making me second guess my decision to keep playing ffxi. the ability to pass off hate to your pet, automaton, avatar is one of the things that makes pet jobs what they are. if you screw with the dynamics of that, then you ruin what makes those jobs useable and fun. its almost impossible to pet burn delve anymore because you cant keep hate on your pet, or use reward without dying. if they are gonna screw around with the emnity gain, then they need to shorten the snarl recast timer at the very least for bst.

[Olor]

I wonder, do any of the devs responsible for this screwed-up change actually PLAY healers?

I don't even think any of them play the game. They retired in the dunes in 2004.


the ability to pass off hate to your pet, automaton, avatar is one of the things that makes pet jobs what they are. if you screw with the dynamics of that, then you ruin what makes those jobs useable and fun.

Funny thing is - people are complaining that BST doesn't engage... but this enmity change makes it really hard to do so as you can't get hate off of yourself if you self heal, so the obvious response is to stand back and just let the pet do everything.

Least they could do is make snarl generate it's own enmity like flash or something so it can't be ripped off by 350 HP of healing.

I think it's okay to have to manage your hate while engaging with your pet but it's currently unmanageable.

[FallenE]

After 10 years of continuous game play, this is the worst change I've ever experience as a full time WHM.

Without a PLD, specifically a PLD, there is almost no way to run any event with moderate difficulties. Before the update, I was able to take all Ver1 Delve with 2DD 1WHM 1BRD, now I can't even beat the NMs because of the hate issue, regardless whether the DD voke or not; the enmity system is a complete screwed up for everyone else except PLD. I'm not sure if the devs are on crack, but I'm pretty sure they don't play any jobs other than PLD.

[FallenE]

Are you healing in -50 enmity or close? Are your DDs /war, in which case can open with a Provoke? Simply put SE changed it so melee damage has much reduced enmity generating capabilities, which considering how easy it was to cap hate in a zerg situation was an understandable change.

Generally speaking, once DDs start WSing you shouldn't really have issues with pulling hate just curing.

You are a PLD and you are asking this? I have capped -enmity as fulltime WHM, I always pull hate from PLD in long (15min+) fight because whm will cap the enmity as they don't take dmg in the first 10 min and PLD will eventually lose the cap due to damage taken.

[Kensagaku]

You are a PLD and you are asking this? I have capped -enmity as fulltime WHM, I always pull hate from PLD in long (15min+) fight because whm will cap the enmity as they don't take dmg in the first 10 min and PLD will eventually lose the cap due to damage taken.

That seems like a pretty reasonable situation, imo, and relatively balanced. That's the point at which you realize that you will eventually hit the hate cap and have to take steps to prepare. Bring a THF to tug some hate off, or a SMN to use Carbucle for the same. Rangers can Decoy Shot onto the Paladin; even if he is capped, it will cause the mob to spin towards him more likely because it will be as though the Paladin is creating multiple means of drawing hate as shots are fired at him. WHMs shouldn't be immune to the hate cap, and after 15 minutes that seems reasonable that other steps may have to be taken.

[bazookatooth]

What takes 15 minutes to kill these days? Not being snarky, just curious.

[YosemiteYogorockBlondelle]

Well I guess they see whm's playing on the front-lines with everyone else, playing whm like a pld instead of being a whm possibly but only way make any since in the line of fire of this is because esuna but honestly it would of been better to of created Erasega instead as an erase for all party members except whm with it being at a distance for staying back into the back-lines and is a less likely requirement to be having to receive a debuff before having the ability to using there version of erasega which is esuna. :confused:

Anyone else can think of reasons why they my see a whm playing as if it were a paladin's job on the front lines? {Granted Trust Whm's play on the front-lines with you}

[bazookatooth]

I think erasega would piss off a lot of Mythic WHMs. I mean it would make everybody else happy, but I don't know... Unless they update the mythic in some other way, I don't see Erasega happening.

[YosemiteYogorockBlondelle]

I think erasega would piss off a lot of Mythic WHMs. I mean it would make everybody else happy, but I don't know... Unless they update the mythic in some other way, I don't see Erasega happening.

Hmm..o.O? Whats on the mythic that effects this, I'm wondering now?

[Zarchery]

Hmm..o.O? Whats on the mythic that effects this, I'm wondering now?

Mythic club gives Divine Veil +100%; all status cure spells are Area of Effect.

[YosemiteYogorockBlondelle]

Mythic club gives Divine Veil +100%; all status cure spells are Area of Effect.

There still isn't an i-level version of this weapon/mythic, am I correct?

[bazookatooth]

There still isn't an i-level version of this weapon/mythic, am I correct?

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Yagrush

[FallenE]

What takes 15 minutes to kill these days? Not being snarky, just curious.

Like when I low man (2-3) Lv 128 unity NMs... or anything that last a bit longer than 30 seconds without a "tank". I can draw hate tossing cure III on thf in A.Skirmish after the thf hit 99% of HP off that mob and it's still on me.

[FallenE]

I think erasega would piss off a lot of Mythic WHMs. I mean it would make everybody else happy, but I don't know... Unless they update the mythic in some other way, I don't see Erasega happening.

WHM/SCH you get erasega or whateverga every 2 min with Accession, lots Mythic WHM got butt-hurt over this but... it's SE~ But now if you toss whateverga you'll probably draw more hate than anyone else in the frontline. My BRD can draw hate off DD when there is no tank.

[bazookatooth]

Have you guys considered using Amchuchu or Gesho? I use them sometimes soloing stuff with BST or BLU and my pet can pull hate relatively easy, but the back line never really gets hit with anything but AOE and you can stay beyond 20 yalms with them out if you have to do something as a mage job for some reason. It's not perfect by any means, but it works for the most part. I honestly kinda like / hate the change. I think they need to tweak it a little (cures do pull too much hate, but it's not game breaking), but it's nice to be a DD and not be tanking after the first weapon skill. I guess what I'm saying is I agree, I just don't think it's as terrible as it sounds.


Like when I low man (2-3) Lv 128 unity NMs... or anything that last a bit longer than 30 seconds without a "tank". I can draw hate tossing cure III on thf in A.Skirmish after the thf hit 99% of HP off that mob and it's still on me.

I recommend a tank trust. They won't keep hate off a strong DD, but they can keep it from attacking the mages 99% of the time.

[FallenE]

Have you guys considered using Amchuchu or Gesho? I use them sometimes soloing stuff with BST or BLU and my pet can pull hate relatively easy, but the back line never really gets hit with anything but AOE and you can stay beyond 20 yalms with them out if you have to do something as a mage job for some reason. It's not perfect by any means, but it works for the most part. I honestly kinda like / hate the change. I think they need to tweak it a little (cures do pull too much hate, but it's not game breaking), but it's nice to be a DD and not be tanking after the first weapon skill. I guess what I'm saying is I agree, I just don't think it's as terrible as it sounds.



I recommend a tank trust. They won't keep hate off a strong DD, but they can keep it from attacking the mages 99% of the time.

Tried that, doesn't really work and probably never work on intense battles, eventually any whm/blm/brd will get punch no matter what; this change is straight screwed up. SE needs to give tank job enmity modifier and reverse the change they made to damage enmity gain.

[FallenE]

I just don't think it's as terrible as it sounds.

It's very bad when you do anything without a dedicated tank or DD without provoke; all AA battles are screwed up, all Delve battles are screwed up, whatever events that DD need sub jobs other than war are screwed up. Go try hit Daku with your DD having RUN subs, I guarantee the WHM will die within first couple minutes in battle.

[bungiefanNA]

There still isn't an i-level version of this weapon/mythic, am I correct?

All Mythics, Empyreans, and Relics that are waepons can be raised to level 119, and that has been the case since December 2013's patch. That's what Plutons, Riftborne Boulders, and Beitetsu are for.

[YosemiteYogorockBlondelle]

There still isn't an i-level version of this weapon/mythic, am I correct?


All Mythics, Empyreans, and Relics that are waepons can be raised to level 119, and that has been the case since December 2013's patch. That's what Plutons, Riftborne Boulders, and Beitetsu are for.


https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Yagrush

Well i'm not much of a less info with just picturing displays type of fan as bg/wiki seems to be displaying picture's of the items more then actually giving info and full laid out details in how to obtain with a lot of there articles compared to encyclopedia which is also why I wish that ffxiclopedia.com website was always kept more up-to date in more area's of the FFXI game with that type of info the most since it's a more detailed site I prefer to use in my endeavor's into accomplishing the game stuff! This is why I most likely made the statement in not knowing the way I asked the question above! "Don't quote me on it just in case I'm wrong and there's been changes on it to that site since my last knowledge in looking that type of stuff up"

[saevel]

It's very bad when you do anything without a dedicated tank or DD without provoke; all AA battles are screwed up, all Delve battles are screwed up, whatever events that DD need sub jobs other than war are screwed up. Go try hit Daku with your DD having RUN subs, I guarantee the WHM will die within first couple minutes in battle.

You realize that /RUN gets flash right?

It's much harder now then before but WHM's can perform perfectly fine if they focus on -enmity in their healing sets. Healing magic skill adds -enmity for Tranquility so get that capped ASAP, then try to get -35~40 enmity in your cure set, if this requires you sacrifice 2~5% cure potency then it's worth it. There is a ton of -enmity gear in this game and WHM can hit 45%+ cure pot piss easy. The only thing this update really did was severely punish all WHM's who threw the job together to "get into events" and wore a single set of gear the whole time.

[Kensagaku]

You realize that /RUN gets flash right?

It's much harder now then before but WHM's can perform perfectly fine if they focus on -enmity in their healing sets. Healing magic skill adds -enmity for Tranquility so get that capped ASAP, then try to get -35~40 enmity in your cure set, if this requires you sacrifice 2~5% cure potency then it's worth it. There is a ton of -enmity gear in this game and WHM can hit 45%+ cure pot piss easy. The only thing this update really did was severely punish all WHM's who threw the job together to "get into events" and wore a single set of gear the whole time.

Might as well point out that /RUN gets Vallation and Pflug too for 450 CE/900 VE each too. Not to mention Swipe/Lunge are great for quick bursts of elemental damage for helping with auras and the like, though it's a shame that putting up runes no longer generate enmity like they used to. But yeah, if your /RUN DDs aren't grabbing hate quickly, that's on them; they've got some good hate tools.

[Olor]

The only thing this update really did was severely punish all WHM's who threw the job together to "get into events" and wore a single set of gear the whole time.

I guess the issue with this is, in my opinion, that it was hard enough to find a whm even with "all WHM's who threw the job together to "get into events" and wore a single set of gear the whole time."

WHM is already one of the hardest jobs in the game to do well. Making it harder and more stressful just means fewer people are going to want to do it, which means its going to be harder for pick up groups to complete the content. That's my real concern here. It is TOUGH to find a WHM, any WHM for content, making it harder for so-so WHMs to do an okay job, doesn't really help anyone.

Like I have a crummy whm that I can pull out in a pinch. I've never put effort into gearing it well because the job is stressful and I don't want people to get the idea of making me WHM all the things. I am definitely less likely to consider gearing it now that WHM is even more difficult and stressful and requires even MORE gearing dedication to be half decent.

[Fynlar]

Regarding the whole -enmity point, like I said I still hear of healers that have these similar enmity issues even with -enmity sets, so I'm inclined to think that is not something that is a sufficient band-aid for the base problem at hand and should probably stop being treated like it is one.


WHM is already one of the hardest jobs in the game to do well. Making it harder and more stressful just means fewer people are going to want to do it, which means its going to be harder for pick up groups to complete the content. That's my real concern here. It is TOUGH to find a WHM, any WHM for content, making it harder for so-so WHMs to do an okay job, doesn't really help anyone.

I wouldn't even have called myself a so-so WHM; most people that have run stuff with me seem to think I do a pretty good job at it.

Nevertheless, these changes they have done have left these people needing to look elsewhere for their WHM, because it's something I just refuse to play anymore. If I wanted to be a tank, I would have come as one.

[ValronXI]

i have a pocket whm, skills uncapped, have no problems doing a 6 man delve or vagary content with cheap (free) unity gears lol, basic refresh set and +curepot set combined with delve gear?... i can whm anything.

oh and im a hume whm, so when i take hate? i just cure myself and switch to a -pdt set....

ive been a whm tank alot, and back in the day it was a normal thing.

if you have a DECENT TANK, that knows how to use FLASH/PROVOKE. you should NEVER CATCH HATE:

oh sorry, i forgot some mobs have /random hate changes, or full alliance hate when one mob is agroed from a group.

/random hate is from a mobs like the penguine in marjim ravine, that if you DONT TANK IN REVERSE it will agro whoever the heck it wants.

please.... show me some video, show me what mob, what party setup, what gears are one everyone and ill tell you why its broken.

[saevel]

Regarding the whole -enmity point, like I said I still hear of healers that have these similar enmity issues even with -enmity sets, so I'm inclined to think that is not something that is a sufficient band-aid for the base problem at hand and should probably stop being treated like it is one.



I wouldn't even have called myself a so-so WHM; most people that have run stuff with me seem to think I do a pretty good job at it.

Nevertheless, these changes they have done have left these people needing to look elsewhere for their WHM, because it's something I just refuse to play anymore. If I wanted to be a tank, I would have come as one.

Do you have separate ST and MT healing sets? How much -enmity is there along with total healing skill for tranquil heart.

I usually see WHM's focusing on pure healing numbers and they tend to treat -enmity like something that was good when you could get for "free" but not as a major concern. Trust be told this was how things where for so long that most WHM's have completely forgot the need for it. Getting -35~40 in a healing set isn't hard, it does require you to do things like use an -enmity neck, rings, waist, back and so forth.

[Ulth]

The new play style took sometime getting used to, but I think it's pretty manageable now. I mean it sucks for whm now they actually have to worry about gearing for -enmity, but as new better gear gets added I'm sure there will be more pieces with good -enmity and cure stats.

Flash, provoke, and cures are powerful tools for tanks to use. I know I have enough fast cast to keep hate with flash as thf/run. Not that I want to, but sometimes the tank goes down and I am left as the intermediate tank while they recover. I wouldn't mind if they fixed thf's enmity tools though. Accomplice and Collaborator need to be on separate timers at least. Being able to use them up to 20 yalms wouldn't hurt either, but SE already said no on that. But what I really would like is Accomplice to be on a 1 minute timer, and Collaborator just do the opposite and give the target some of the thf's enmity.