Casters Gain TP from casting spells

[hordecore]

please implement this thank you

[Mezzopiano]

They already did.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Occult_Acumen

Though, to be honest, I'm not sure why any dedicated caster would want it in the first place.

[hordecore]

sub /DNC and heal

[Wenceslao]

I personally find useless my tp as a caster, when im casting a lot of spells, and changing staffs to maximize my nukes, and i wouldn't change my mage sub...

[Rezeak]

Occult Acumen doesn't count until it's useful speanding like 600 mp for 100tp is not viable for DRKs or Nukers

[Alkalinehoe]

Occult Acumen doesn't count until it's useful speanding like 600 mp for 100tp is not viable for DRKs or Nukers
OBV DRKs should sub SCH and use Light Arts for the +10% increased cost to reach 600MP faster.

[Kingofgeeks]

if you're farming with blm it would be nice to get more tp then that so we can spirit taker and keep farming

[bungiefan]

MP restoring weaponskills are why we want TP as casters. Then there's also BLU being able to use spells to skillchain or do more damage based on TP. A way for a mage to spend TP other than weaponskills would be nice, and /DNC is one such way.

[rog]

Occult Acumen doesn't count until it's useful speanding like 600 mp for 100tp is not viable for DRKs or Nukers
Of course the idea is to get 100 tp entirely with nukes, on a job like drk. It's definitely not to give you a few extra tp for casting spells you were going to cast anyway.

[Andylynn]

please implement this thank you
Please stop posting every random idea that pops into your head... every day it's a new bad idea, with your name on it. Just do us a favor and stop, there is no reason for a mage to be using melee to begin with outside !! in Abyssea.

[Hordecora]

Please stop posting every random idea that pops into your head... every day it's a new bad idea, with your name on it. Just do us a favor and stop, there is no reason for a mage to be using melee to begin with outside !! in Abyssea.
they do need to use TP for proc

[Zarchery]

they do need to use TP for proc

That's why you infuse a Regain atma or, I dunno, LET ONE OF THE MELEES PROC. I think except for Hexa Strike from WHM for blue proc, mages never do weapon skill procs.

[Nynja]

can you stop necroing your own dumb threads ffs.

[Alhanelem]

please implement this thank you
They already do.

[Meyi]

I like TP as a BLM out in Campaign. Use the same nuke, build up TP, and return some of the MP back. :) It's all good.

[Alhanelem]

It's just that it's difficult to take advantage of unless you stick to a single element for a fair length of time, that's the only problem. Too bad there isn't a halfway decent universal staff out there for BLMs.

[Tile]

Hvergelmir. Gives back 20-60% of Max mp, and when you not low on mp you can use Shattersoul which lowers targets magic Def, so you can nuke for alittle more. you wont nuke for as much as you will with the elemental staffs though.

Do you want to melee or nuke, you picked a mage job.

also if you want tp that bad there is gear that gives Regain at the cost of Mp or hp so just use that if your that disperate.

[Alhanelem]

Hvergelmir. Gives back 20-60% of Max mp, and when you not low on mp you can use Shattersoul which lowers targets magic Def, so you can nuke for alittle more. you wont nuke for as much as you will with the elemental staffs though.

Do you want to melee or nuke, you picked a mage job.This isn't even about meleeing, so I don't know why you're going there. BLM, who would hypothetically gain the most of any mage from TP from nukes, typically has to swap staves very frequently, and every staff swap results in a loss of TP, thereby negating any possible benefit of the trait. The only other job that can use Hvergelmir doesn't have to swap staves to the extent a BLM does, but of course they don't have nukes (technically they can use Impact with no skill rating) and don't have the trait.

There are very few staves in the game which offer enough MAB or other offensive magic characteristics that would allow a BLM to not have to switch staves to keep a decent amount of magical power. The ones that do exist are a huge pain to get and still aren't as good as elemental weapons.

Both Spirit Taker and Shattersoul would be very good uses of the accumulated TP. You don't have to "melee," just engage, use WS, disengage. You're gaining TP from nukes, so you don't need to hit the mob and you gain useful benefits, including either MP recovery or a magic defense down effect.


also if you want tp that bad there is gear that gives Regain at the cost of Mp or hp so just use that if your that disperate. Gaining TP isn't even the issue. The issue is the LOSS of TP from weapon switching. Even without a TP from spells effect, trigger happy BLMs would eventually have 100 TP from getting hit by enemies. The whole reason this never happens is becuase of weapon switching.

There are multiple utility-type staff/club weapon skills that are designed to have supportive functions, rather than directly do lot of damage. There's no reason why these shouldn't be able to be useful to the jobs that equip these weapons, regardless of your views on what a "mage job" is.

[Rewyen]

Because what would save the day is a Taru BLM running into battle every 3 minutes to rock a Shining Strike.

[Alhanelem]

What does Shining Strike do that's useful? (Other than proc)

Your snarky sarcastic remark doesn't contribute to the thread.

Now on the off chance that you're actually going to hold a empy staff on BLM, Myrkr isn't a damaging WS and doesn't require you to be near the monster, so that can be easily used at any time without putting oneself in danger. But even if you're not. if you had TP, and you have intelligent eyes as a player, you could easily use Spirit Taker (assuming you have staff skilled up) for MP, or Shattersoul for extra magic damage from the M.Def Down effect, or the physical defense down debuff on Garland of Bliss...

It IS possible to gain a useful benefit from certain staff WS, if you are somehow able to accumulate the TP. That's the hard part- and no one here is suggesting that a BLM get it by engaging. BLM and SCH both get Occult Accumen and gain TP from casting spells- the problem is weapon switching. People have asked for this for a long time, because monsters always got TP from magic. But even though we have it now, it's difficult to actually make any use of it. The idea isn't to make BLMs melee, it's to make the TP they do get useable for some sort of function.

[brayen]

an ability like sublimation that converts tp gained per tic, when used again it dumps all the tp back to the user(maybe at half the drain rate 2tp stores = 1 tp back?). so you got tp for a ws(mykr/spirit taker)(or any other ability that uses tp if they ever add more then just for dancer).
Conclusion: occult acumen (as well as any stray regain spell or effects) are converted into something useful every so often w/o the major sacrifice of your staff bonus

[Alhanelem]

an ability like sublimation that converts tp gained per tic, when used again it dumps all the tp back to the user(maybe at half the drain rate 2tp stores = 1 tp back?). so you got tp for a ws(mykr/spirit taker)(or any other ability that uses tp if they ever add more then just for dancer).
Conclusion: occult acumen (as well as any stray regain spell or effects) are converted into something useful every so often w/o the major sacrifice of your staff bonus

There already do exist items that drain your TP to do something. That doesn't make there be any harm in functional weapon skills on staves being of utility to a class that isn't good at melee. But being able to use them shouldn't have to come at the cost of having to use an inferior staff for your normal activities.

[brayen]

There already do exist items that drain your TP to do something. That doesn't make there be any harm in functional weapon skills on staves being of utility to a class that isn't good at melee. But being able to use them shouldn't have to come at the cost of having to use an inferior staff for your normal activities.

not understanding what you are saying here at all in response to my post? can you please clarify?

[Alhanelem]

not understanding what you are saying here at all in response to my post? can you please clarify?
I think I misinterpreted your suggestion. I thought you meant invent an ability that drains your TP to gain some sort of effect, but you meant store away TP for use later.

That said, every sentence after the first one is still somewhat applicable.

[Motenten]

Actually, it sounds like he's suggesting some sort of cross between Sublimation and Finishing Moves/Reverse Flourish. Activate the ability, and all the TP you gain via Occult Acumen goes into a "bubble" instead of you getting it directly. Then at any time you want you can re-use the ability and have the accumulated TP dumped on you. Perhaps have it reach full at 100 TP (rather than allowing you to build all the way to 300 TP).

Interesting idea.

[Alhanelem]

Yeah, I actually kind of like that. It would solve the problem pretty effectively and allow a nuker to use the appropriate weapon for the situation and still be able to use the TP he has collected.

[Shadotter]

What we need is for them to modify Hvergelmir to have a hidden effect to have elemental affinity to all elements.

[Alhanelem]

What we need is for them to modify Hvergelmir to have a hidden effect to have elemental affinity to all elements.

The development team has a secret rule: Black mages can never have fun, so not going to happen.

[Tile]

What we need is for them to modify Hvergelmir to have a hidden effect to have elemental affinity to all elements.

Relic staff is damage and Refresh
blm Mystic is damage, +MAB, and elemental seal
Emp is only MP restore.

they were heading in a good direction, then they got lost

[Alhanelem]

Relic staff is damage and RefreshIt
blm Mystic is damage, +MAB, and elemental seal
Emp is only MP restore.

they were heading in a good direction, then they got lost
mythic doesn't give accuracy and attack at the same time; And the empyrean also removes most status effects, including silence. Empy will also give you back far more MP than relic+gate of tartarus will. They didn't get lost, they found their way.

I'd take the mythic over the other two, but don't kid yourself into thinking you get all the aftermath effects at once.

[svengalis]

Don't know if TC is serious or not but this also could be useful for doing weapon skill trials.

[Seiowan]

Hmm... this thread gives me an idea...

Assuming casters did indeed gain a proportional amount of TP for the spell cast (Occult Acumen aside as it only applies to Scholars and BLM) what would they do with it?

What if a job ability was given which put that TP to some proper use?

Black Mages could have a JA which increased the damage of their next attack based on their TP, or applied bonus effects based on the element.

Scholar's could have a JA which increased the effect of storm spell weather bonuses based on their TP.

White Mage could have a JA which enhances the potency of their next healing spell based on their TP.

Giving TP to mages is all well and good, but most of them have no real use for it right now. Give it a purpose and maybe, just maybe, they'll be more inclined to allow decent TP gain from casting.

[Alhanelem]

Giving TP to mages is all well and good, but most of them have no real use for it right now. That's not really true. Staves have multiple status-effect inducing WS, two MP-recovery WS, one that doesn't even require hitting the monster (though it requires a special weapon), and multiple procs in abyssea. More TP from spells (just increase occult accumen strength) would make it easier to use for any of these purposes.

No other player gains passive effects based on TP and nor do monsters, so there's no precedent for that. People need to get over this false idea that just because they're mages, none of the weapon skills are ever of any use to them.

[Urteil]

Just don't change staves, its the trade off for using a weaponskill.

With the addition of Shattersoul a mage employing weaponskills is even more promising than it was before due to the synergy between Shattersoul and magical DPS. I support a mage going "balls to the wall" and having TP, PDT, MDT and WS sets. A mage can survive very well close to the enemy if they have the dedication and gear to do it. This practice has useful results that directly correlates to how few people you have in your party/event.

It is not that mages using WS is terrible or impossible, it is simply that in larger encounters there is less and less efficiency/reason for a mage to perform this function, just as Summoner's lose the necessity to heal and my Dark Knight loses feasibility in casting. Not to mention many people do not have the gear or desire to gear their mage outside of the 2x2 box they so desperately live to wish in.

In large end-game situations BLM/SCH/Whatever isn't going to melee just like DRK isn't going to be doing much casting.
However again, this changes in low-man, solo, ballista, or other environments.

The idea of a BLM meleeing during an 18 man/large party event is a bit absurd, akin to a DRK seriously attempting magical DPS. In different areas of the game, your job will act accordingly.


However any mage willing to master this facet of their job would not be doing a disservice to themselves, or anyone for that matter.

[Shadotter]

*nods* while I don't find a reason to pull my staff during ls events, on my own time I have found myself using it often enough that I've seriously put progress into my empyrean staff.

[Alhanelem]

shatterosul is the first staff WS that's worth a damn (that does damage anyway), and it also has a beneficial effect for mages.


The idea of a BLM meleeing during an 18 man/large party event is a bit absurd, akin to a DRK seriously attempting magical DPS. In different areas of the game, your job will act accordingly.I wouldn't ever suggest such a thing, however, if the caster didn't have to lose TP, they could make use of TP accumulated from casting at oppertune times.