Level caps in mission battles a choice?

[Evogolist]

Hey guys, an earlier thread about a classic server kind of gave me an idea. Would if SE added the removed level caps back to the earlier mission BCNM fights, but instead of making it mandatory like it use to be, they instead made it an option?

This way, players who wanted to challenge themselves while progressing through the game and doing the missions could do so, while those that really didn't care for it could opt out of the lvl cap version of the fight. This would possibly include a lvl capped version of the Promyvion areas, but of course players would be prompted to choose if they wanted to enter the capped version or the uncapped one upon entry into the actual promy area.

I know some people may argue that SE has added high-tier/hard mode versions of the old big fights, but those only accessible by people have reached 75 and have merit points to spend. Plus, giving players the choice to choose whether they want to attempt the capped fight while progressing through the story missions would at least in some form bring back a sense of achievement.

While I'm sure that if possible, it would be low priority with all that they are working on now and would more than likely require some changing to the code again. This is just a simple question and maybe QoL suggestion to see if anyone would be interested.

[Alhanelem]

I might buy what oyu're saying if those level cap battles were ever a challenge in the first place, but they weren't. The high tier battles are a simpler and easier solution. Also the number of people wishing to take deliberate action to make something harder than it has to be for no additional reward is very low. The high tier system is effective because there are multiple difficulty levels and the prospect of reward increases on higher levels - so people choose the highest one they think they can clear.

[Seillan]

I'm all for this idea, personally. Since I started the game again, I've been intentionally trying to tackle most of that type of content in level ranges that are more appropriate to the task, just to have a "truer-to-the-original" experience. A level cap option for them would make it even easier to accommodate that. They could even add RoE rewards and/or titles for doing it that way, for those that need incentives.

[Singforu]

I might buy what oyu're saying if those level cap battles were ever a challenge in the first place, but they weren't. The high tier battles are a simpler and easier solution. Also the number of people wishing to take deliberate action to make something harder than it has to be for no additional reward is very low. The high tier system is effective because there are multiple difficulty levels and the prospect of reward increases on higher levels - so people choose the highest one they think they can clear.

You must be new. I remember the CoP fight against Ultima and Omega back when you were capped at level 60. It was no pushover.

[Alhanelem]

You must be new. I remember the CoP fight against Ultima and Omega back when you were capped at level 60. It was no pushover.
Nope. Been here since day 1 (okay, within the first week or two) NA. I didn't find those fights difficult. CoP had fights that were harder than the base game story, but not by a whole lot.

Going back and doing these fights, even with the exact parameters as you remember them, just isn't the same because you've done it before and you know what to do. It still only has a fraction of the challenge of the first time you did it.

[Singforu]

you said: "if those level cap battles were ever a challenge in the first place, but they weren't." They most definitely were. You might not have been one of the leading people figuring out how to do those fights and just rode the coattails of others who had already done the fights and just cookiecuttered it, and so I could see why you would say it wasn't difficult. For those of us who actually figured out the fights, it was difficult. Figuring out which job combinations and strategies worked took awhile. I remember many a time wiping and/or timing out.

[Evogolist]

you said: "if those level cap battles were ever a challenge in the first place, but they weren't." They most definitely were. You might not have been one of the leading people figuring out how to do those fights and just rode the coattails of others who had already done the fights and just cookiecuttered it, and so I could see why you would say it wasn't difficult. For those of us who actually figured out the fights, it was difficult. Figuring out which job combinations and strategies worked took awhile. I remember many a time wiping and/or timing out.

I second this. I remember going through the rank 2-3 mission, and though if you knew the strategy or someone else knew, it was easy. But every now and then you'd get that new group that even if they followed through with the plan, there was still a chance of a wipe. A resisted sleep spell meant a wipe if your tank wasn't fast enough and your healer couldn't manage his/her heals while the tank held both the ahriman and the dragon until sleep was ready again. Then there was always a chance that there would be no sleeper in the group. Basically, what I'm saying is that sure, they may have seemed easy if you had the right set up or a set up to get by, but a new group tackling the content might not be as lucky, thus presenting them with a challenge. As for CoP fights, anything pass promy vhzal I didn't get to until it was uncapped since my static fell apart, so I'm not sure how challenging they were, however I do remember tenzen and the weapon fights definitely being a challenge even in it's uncapped form.

Also I feel like this would meet those of whom want to re-experience classic XI at least halfway or close to halfway. Heck, maybe even throw in a npc that gives you the option to wipe your memory of past missions like the ones for the AF quests (possibly for a fee of course). While it may not be what those that wanted a classic want, I guess in some form...it would give them the opportunity to relive and replay those missions they way they were originally played. And any new players coming in would at least have the opportunity to choose if they wanted to try the capped version or play through the uncapped version.

[Alhanelem]

you said: "if those level cap battles were ever a challenge in the first place, but they weren't." They most definitely were.

Subjective. Maybe it was hard for you, but not for me. I did every single mission on SMN, so no, it wasn't cookie cutter. We may have different ideas of what hard is, and there's nothing wrong with that, but that's how I saw it. It's pretty insulting for you to tell me what it had to be or what I did, because I know what I did and I know what my experience was like.

And the point still stands, putting in a cap now and doing it again isn't the same as the first time, no matter how nostalgic you get, because you know how to do it now, when you didn't before you started it.

[Seillan]

Subjective. Maybe it was hard for you, but not for me. I did every single mission on SMN, so no, it wasn't cookie cutter. We may have different ideas of what hard is, and there's nothing wrong with that, but that's how I saw it. It's pretty insulting for you to tell me what it had to be or what I did, because I know what I did and I know what my experience was like.

And the point still stands, putting in a cap now and doing it again isn't the same as the first time, no matter how nostalgic you get, because you know how to do it now, when you didn't before you started it.

Who's asking for it to be "the same as the first time?" That doesn't seem to be the point of this thread at all. Some of us would just like to be able to cap ourselves down to the appropriate level for the content so that the fights can be a bit more challenging, rather than the level 99 steam roll. And for those of us that are new to a lot of the content, it's nice to be able to experience it more closely to how it was originally (I fall in that camp.)

[Alhanelem]

Who's asking for it to be "the same as the first time?" That doesn't seem to be the point of this thread at all. Some of us would just like to be able to cap ourselves down to the appropriate level for the content so that the fights can be a bit more challenging, rather than the level 99 steam roll. And for those of us that are new to a lot of the content, it's nice to be able to experience it more closely to how it was originally (I fall in that camp.)
If you want a fight that's a bit more challenging, just do the high tier version. It's not like it isn't literally the same mission fights, even with the same in-battle cutscenes, just made for high level. You can't say 'it's not the same' because capping down to make it harder wouldn't be the same either. The fact is, nothing would be. And wanting to go back and play classic fights is probably one of the reasons they implemented high tier mission battles in the first place.

We don't need an arbitrary level cap function to relive these battles. We already have a feature for that.

[Evogolist]

If you want a fight that's a bit more challenging, just do the high tier version. It's not like it isn't literally the same mission fights, even with the same in-battle cutscenes, just made for high level. You can't say 'it's not the same' because capping down to make it harder wouldn't be the same either. The fact is, nothing would be. And wanting to go back and play classic fights is probably one of the reasons they implemented high tier mission battles in the first place.

We don't need an arbitrary level cap function to relive these battles. We already have a feature for that.

You still seem to be missing the point and grasping the idea of this suggestion. A new player or someone returning to the game and having to start over would benefit from this more than anyone that's been playing for X amount of years. Also the High-tier mission battles are only accessible to those who have already completed the initial fight have reached lvl 75 and accumulated enough merit points to access those fights. Also, unless you leveled your character and unlocked smn prior to doing any of the story missions I doubt you did all the missions on smn especially the nation rank missions on your first play through the game.

[YosemiteYogorockBlondelle]

I remembering back to when the craigs promia area's where capped with mobs that were not added yet to accommodate the removal of the level cap, and the sewers or cave tunnel areas inside of tav or surrounding area's of tavnazia. You couldn't solo level those area's all that well as you would be able to today since introduction of trusts and you had to at least one person with you otherwise you could die easy in those area's when the level cap existed would be put upon you after zoning into the zone. Party placement set up was a must back then especially for exp parties back then where it would change the area or scene area based on the level you were at in leveling up a job as well.

They probably would have to put a block on using trust for your nostalgic feel needs to be met too. LOL!!:cool:

[Alhanelem]

You still seem to be missing the point and grasping the idea of this suggestion. A new player or someone returning to the game and having to start over would benefit from this more than anyone that's been playing for X amount of years.How would they benefit? Anyone else could just sync to them. The described feature isn't needed for this. And while I still view it unnecessary, they could just restore the old caps for the fights but make them optional. 99.9999% of people are still going to do it with the cap off, but for the 5 people who want to subject themselves to artificial restrictions, it's there. This would likely be easier to do because those battlefields already had caps in the past. I still dont think anyone would actually use it though, because we already had optional level caps in Assault and zero out of zero people ever actually used them.


They probably would have to put a block on using trust for your nostalgic feel needs to be met too. LOL!!Good luck finding a party of other people to go with you >.> One of the reasons these restrictions were removed was because of the declining number of people participating in the content, therefore they felt the restrictions needed to be removed in order to allow newer and less active people to progress. It's about demand. Hence why I doubt they would reinstate these things because almost nobody would want to do it.I even suspect that some of the people asking for it would end up not doing it because they can't find enough like minded people.

It was really the social experiences, and friendships forged,and such that made the early days of XI so great. No new feature or anything else for the sake of nostalgia can bring that back. It will not be the same. That's just the way things work. I can go back and play super mario bros on the NES right now, and it will be fun, but it won't be the same as the first time I played, when I sucked at it, didn't know about the warp zones, etc. We all want to get back those original experiences, but it just isn't possible.

[Fynlar]

I might buy what oyu're saying if those level cap battles were ever a challenge in the first place, but they weren't.

Uhh, you can speak for yourself there. CoP gave me, and certainly many others, our fair share of headaches.


It's pretty insulting for you to tell me what it had to be or what I did, because I know what I did and I know what my experience was like.

Why not? You came in here first doing the exact same thing

[Alhanelem]

Uhh, you can speak for yourself there. CoP gave me, and certainly many others, our fair share of headaches.



Why not? You came in here first doing the exact same thing
So just going to play eye for an eye eh?

Systems already exist to give current players experiences similar to what they originally felt with this content. If you want Tenzen or <insert big CoP battle here> to be hard, go play it on VD. If that's not hard enough, then dial back your gear. And if there isn't a high tier version of <insert fight here> then there should be.

I can all but guarantee you most new/quit-long-time-ago-just-came-back people would rather clear the required mission fights easily so they aren't left in the dust for the current mainstream content.

I stand by this and thus I move on, since your mind is made up as well.