View Full Version : Please give old content some love!
There is a pretty hefty portion of old content in ffxi that is extremely outdated, and has two factors in its uselessness.
#1: The rewards from a lot of old content are worthless, but once were valuable.
#2: This content takes a LOT of effort to utilize, and is fun for some players, yet because of point #1 no one bothers to even touch the content.
The issue really just simply lies in point #1. There is a massive amount of fun, old ffxi content that is worthless to do because players get essentially 0 reward from it.
If square enix really intends to 'finish' ffxi, before they can consider that option they really should at bare minimum take all this old content I shal llist below, and quite simply just add a handful of rewards to the content (literally just replace old useless items) with new drops that have some use/value.
That is really all it should take. In other words, the stick is already in place for all of this content, much of it was very worthwhile doing and very fun for players to work at. There is no carrot on the stick anymore though, simply replacing the carrot on the stick (via updating the rewards / loot tables to be relevant again) should add hundreds and hundreds of hours of viable play time to ffxi again.
Lets begin:
Gardening: This is currently an essentially useless past time that used to be very rewarding. Please add a handful of valuable materials that can be used for 100~110 crafting to gardening. Even just a couple being added should be enough to make gardening useful again.
Chocobo Digging: Used to be very very profitable digging for elemental ores, but not anymore because of abyssea's drop rates on ele ores. Please just add a couple of relevant items to the zones for chocobo digging. This is literally all it would take to make chocobo digging worthwhile.
At this point, a HUGE amount of old content suddenly becomes worth doing again in a cascade, as much of the old content in ffxi hinges off of other content, observe:
If gardening is worth doing, chocobo hot and cold becomes worth doing as its one of the best sources of getting arcane/wooden flowerpots, which are the best pots for gardening. Furthermore the very old arcane machines around vanadiel become worthwhile running to do their quests as they also reward arcane flowerpots.
If arcane flowerpots become valuable again, then all of the above is worth doing.
If chocobo hot and cold / digging is worth doing, then chocobo racing becomes very worth doing too as it is the only way to get chocobo coats that improve your ability to do hot and cold and digging.
If chocobo racing is worth doing, chocobo raising is mandatory too of course.
Moving on:
An Explorer's Footsteps
This quest was once the way to get the map of crawler's nest. Now that it isn't, its not worth doing. Please add a nice fat reward for players who collect all 18 tablets, to give incentive to go explore the nooks and crannies of this world you made. Maybe something as simple as a special title, or a pile of gil.
Black Belt
This belt is a mountain of work to get, and a sign of a serious monk. Please either follow up on your promise you made to add another tier of belt (maybe a reforge quest to +1 it), or update the stats on black belt for it to be a usable belt.
A belt with martials arts, double attack, triple attack, quadruple attack, in some combination, for example, is miles more valuable then 12% haste.
For example: Dmg-5%, martial arts+20, DA+1% TA+1% QA+1% is a very solid belt. Current black belt is useless despite the hours and hours and hours and hours of work it takes to get. Please fix this.
These are a handful of the large scale, highly time consuming events of ffxi that are still fun and interesting to do HOWEVER since their rewards are... just not rewarding at all, no one wants to do them.
The tiny, simply act of updating rewards of all these events would jack up hours worth spending on ffxi by a large margin, and would make players happy and also add a lot more longevity to ffxi.
Adding on to the list:
Campaign Weapons
The three following weapons+weaponskills need a rehaul to be ever worth a players time
Samudra (Tartarus Torpor)
Lex Talionis (Glory Slash)
Griffinclaw (Uriel Blade)
As it stands, on must mainhand these weapons to get their weaponskill in campaign. These weapons are completely useless compared to normal ilvl weapons.
Either of the following changes will make these weapons worth getting again, which in turn will make Medal of Altana ยงยงยงยง something worthwhile working towards again.
A: Add something identical to the Empyrean Weaponskill quest where we can trade the weapon to an NPC that permenantly unlocks the weaponskill for us. These weaponskills are cool and flashy, and players would love working towards unlocking them to show off as a badge of honor.
B: Add a reforge quest that lets us make 119 versions of these weapons, preferably that also just let us use the weaponskill outside of campaign, like a mini RME quest. Even just a simple reforge quest alone would make these worth getting.
C: Add a second 119 version of these weapons that costs way more Allied Notes (500k maybe?) that is the same in all other regards, it just has good proper damage.
IE:
500K allied Notes
Griffinclaw +1
DMG:133 Delay:236
Sword skill +242
Parrying skill +242
Magic Accuracy skill +188
Accuracy+20 "Uriel Blade"
Item Level 119
Lex Talionis +1
DMG:130 Delay:226
Sword skill +242
Parrying skill +242
Magic Accuracy skill +188
Accuracy+20 "Glory Slash"
Item Level 119
Samudra +1
DMG:193 Delay:366
Magic Damage+200
Staff skill +242
Parrying skill +242
Magic Accuracy skill +228
Accuracy +30 "Tartarus Torpor"
I think this is a great way for all campaign content to instantly become relevant again and player feel a need to go do campaign every now and then, if just to get cool flashy weaponskills to show off to their friends.
Gameesh
08-02-2015, 10:06 PM
I love your ideas for Black Belt and Campaign WS's (Weapons).
May I also add a suggestion to breathe new life into Maze Mongers, Pankration, Garrison and Monstrosity? (eventhough the last one isn't nearly as old as the rest)
Monstrosity currently has best in slot pet necks, so for die hard players it does have a purpose.
Garrison could use some help, for sure.
Maze mongers though... I dunno. Its hard for them to add any buffs to it that wont conflict with meeble burrows, as they use the same zones I believe.
Krishnaya
08-05-2015, 08:29 PM
Urat what server are you on? I played FFXI for a long time (maybe a decade) before the later expansions ruined the fun of the old style. there's a couple SMALL EASY things sqaure enix could do to bring the fun back to the old styles of playing. Simply boosting XP for the old style 6 person party xp in certain area's, maybe via outpost bonuses, making that kind of XP party as good of a way to level up as the new stupid EZ mode dungeons would make the old game play styles worth while again! I'm not saying nerf the new updates! No way! DO NOT nerf the new stuff cuz then new players will get upset. Simply make the old styles competitive with the new styles by boosting rewards for old styles is all!
I remember when a party had to have skill and each job being on top of stuff and doing skill chains to be good! That was way funner than the EZ mode updates that came way later.
Anyways for a year (back in 2012) or so I had a linkshell on the Phoenix server dedicated only to people who liked the old style of playing. It was becoming a popular linkshell before I quit playing FFXI again.
Now I'm going to start playing FFXI again, but will adhere to the old way of playing and will find others who enjoy that way as well. It would be so easy to make the old way as viable as the new way if SE wanted to. So easy to fix some big mistakes.
Krishnaya
08-05-2015, 08:31 PM
Urat UR OP had good principles but u only touched on a tiny part of the old school play styles. What about the old 6 person XP parties? The rewards for that style gameplay need to be boosted to make it viable and competitive with the new content.
EDIT: I see now what "world" u r from. You should migrate to phoenix! And ya I didn't know that u no longer needed to do the tablet quest for C nest. Rediculous! or at least make a worth while reward i guess. but it was good when u needed to do the quest.
Trusts have completely negated 6 person parties.
SE needs to remove the exp penalty for parties up to 6 people, otherwise there is 0 way it can ever ever compete with 5 trusts (which dont have exp penalty)
I think the best solution, after thinking about it, is adding perma CP bonuses to all the old content clears via RoE objectives.
Examples:
Defeat Genbu: First time completion bonus of +2% CAP rate
Defeat King Behemoth: +2% Cap Bonus
Every BCNM clear should give a 1-2% Cap bonus
Catch every fish in the game: 10% Cap bonus
Finish the chocobo racing plotline: 3% Cap Bonus
Acquire the Desert Chocograph/Jungle Chocograph: 2% CP bonus each
Each Garrison fight should have a 1~2% Cp bonus each
So on and so forth.
SE should in the end require players to get maybe 2400 Job Points to cap out a job, which seems crazy, but if they can get a very sizable CP bonus by 100% beating the game, beating every bcnm, kill every HNM, clear every plot line, beat all the side quests, so on and so forth, then 2400 JP is an attainable goal.
This would add a tremendous amount of longevity to the game. All sorts of content would become in demand again as players clamor for a 100% completion of the game.
Garrison runs will start up again, fishers will take their rods up to 'beat' fishing, so on and so forth.
Whos in favor? If you like the idea of getting a completion log so we can 'beat' ffxi, please post in this thread so we get some attention to the idea.
The triangular number formula is n(n+1)/2, and it's the formula that job points follow. So to max out a category when the cap is 20 it will take 210 job points. So the total job points to finish a job would be 2100 since each job has 10 categories. Adding one or two categories more would make the cap closer to 2400, but SE said they were done adding new ones at 10, and are probably out of balanced ideas for them anyway.
Dear Urat,
As I was discussing in another thread: All content for FFXI must be written on a Playstation2 Development Tool and then ported over to PC compatible data. As the years go by, there are less & less units for SE to acquire. IIRC, SE said they have less than two-dozen (24) Development Tools left. I'm afraid that if SE tried to release the content you named above, it will create a demand for more content that SE simply won't be able to fill. They need the equipment they have to be able to finish up. With so few dev kits on hand, it doesn't make sense to put any more pressure on quickly aging equipment.
Best regards,
Uncle Billy
Long Island, New York
You realise all we are just asking for RoE objectives right?
SE has been mass producing RoE objectives every single of the last updates for the whole year.
Every update they add 30~40 RoE objectives. This is clearly not hard for them to add.
We'd like to see some more completion RoE objectives identical to what they already have added and are still adding to the game
We just got RoE objectives this very update in line with what I am asking for. Its a quick and easy way for SE to refurbish old content by attaching an RoE objective to it.
Second: SE only needs to use the PS2 devkits for playstation updates. They can continue releasing PC updates as much as they please. The entire reason they already have cut PS2 support is there are no more Devkits.
PC updates are done on their computers though, the devkit is used to port the update to PS2.
RoE quests aren't going to make people up and do old events again though. People will just do it once then be done with it. They added the capacity thing to the reives RoE quests and I did them, but I have yet to go into inner court to knock down reives since. Some of the old content you mentioned people still do though. I know at the end of the login campaign when I try for defending ring, there is an actual line of players waiting to pop Behemoths. Genbu seals are used for augmenting the best shield for cures. Susaku is the best source of Siren's Hair in the game. I did a lot of BCNMs during the campaign because of all the additional drops. A RoV KI that lowers the cost of orbs wouldn't hurt though. Chocobos do need some love. They could remove the cap so player raised chocobos can be at least as good as rented ones, or maybe even better. I know their speed can't go any faster, but they could make them last longer and dig better then rented ones. Also a whistle that had unlimited uses like the warp ring would be handy.
Pooty
08-14-2015, 08:49 AM
Second: SE only needs to use the PS2 devkits for playstation updates. They can continue releasing PC updates as much as they please. The entire reason they already have cut PS2 support is there are no more Devkits.
PC updates are done on their computers though, the devkit is used to port the update to PS2.
Actually, the PS2 development kits are used to develop the game itself. The PC version is ported from the PlayStation 2 version, not the other way around.
Krishnaya
08-20-2015, 07:51 AM
I've talked with lots of people in the game about this and the old leveling systems/options need a boost. The new xp systems and expansions CAN COEXIST with the old ways if some simple issues are addressed. I think there's really simple options for how to achieve this. Urat mentioned simply removing the XP penalty for full 6 person parties. Easy and effective!
I have another way I would find more satisfying. That is simply make a huge bonus for any party that has no trusts or NPC's! Make a bonus for doing this vs Incredibly Tough mobs that way if I can (and I can) get 6 friends together to have actual skill based parties again, we'll level up at a rate comparable to the noob easy mode ways people are currently leveling up with. You could remove the XP penalty as Urat suggested AND add a bonus for killing IT mobs with no trusts/npc's. At least 1k bonus for every IT mob killed. I think that would make the old parties viable again.
I understand what billy and other's have said in this thread. I understand there's A LOT that goes with new content and people expectations etc. It's just that it isn't necessary to ruin the old ways of leveling to introduce the new ones.
Lots of MMO's do this and it's ok. I'm not a hater. I love SE and FFXI. SE/FFXI could be completely revolutionary tho by being the only game to not have ruined all the original fun of a MMO through the introduction of good end game content. Well they've already ruined it (no offense) but they'd still be revolutionary for going back and bringing life back to the original party systems. I have faith in the intelligence of SE so it's confusing why they can't just do this to breathe life into the original content and leveling systems.
As far as I can tell a lot of that could be done with simple algorithm/xp factor boosts.
BUT PLEASE: Let's not talk about nerfing. Lots of time people start using the N word when they aren't happy. Let's NOT nerf the new stuff. I don't want to p*ss people off at all.
Am I the only one that sees this as a super simple fix for a super big "issue" in the game?
Add a bonus that will make people want to have lvl 10 dunes parties vs VT and IT mobs again, and qufim, kazam, crawlers nest, cape terigan, and the other places that i can't remember the names. The old school parties fighting IT mobs and needing to bring their A game could come back with out messing up the new awesome updates. With level sync it would be easy to get people in 6 person parties vs IT mobs again if all the xp factors were adjusted or boosted some how.
I've been saying this for years. Quit playing FFXI after playing it (with two paid accounts active) for 9 years because the old stuff is ruined. I have one active account now and am playing again. I'm not giving up on the new or hating on it this time, but it really could easily be adjusted and it would increase the lifespan of the game, and longevity of each individual players commitment to FFXI and SE.
Thanks to anyone who reads this, thanks to the OP, and to everyone who replied/replies.
EDIT: Well considering my friends are getting (as we speak) 6k xp PER KILL (!!!) in marjami, maybe we'd need more than a 1k bonus to IT mob kills with no trust! A little yellow text could flash when u kill an IT mob, or it could happen on VT/IT chains. Maybe 1k bonus to the first vt/it mob, then 1.5k for the chain 1, all the way up to 6k bonus for chain 6+?
PLEASE!
Catmato
08-20-2015, 08:48 AM
EDIT: Well considering my friends are getting (as we speak) 6k xp PER KILL (!!!) in marjami, maybe we'd need more than a 1k bonus to IT mob kills with no trust! A little yellow text could flash when u kill an IT mob, or it could happen on VT/IT chains. Maybe 1k bonus to the first vt/it mob, then 1.5k for the chain 1, all the way up to 6k bonus for chain 6+?
With that kind of exp, you'd be out of the dunes in a few minutes. I'm all for incentivizing old-style exp parties, but more exp isn't the way to do it.
Krishnaya
08-20-2015, 03:18 PM
then what is the way to do it? Urat was productive, and I'm productive/constructive in any criticism we give, but u give no alternate in ur post. I only point this out because I'm interested in what you say is "the way to do it". k Really... please tell me... what is the way to do it if not more XP? I'd rather smash thru dunes lvl 10-20 in 4-8 hours fighting IT mobs than doing some noob no skill WOW way of levelling.... What's ur way?
Dunes was just one, earliest ever, part of it. The subject matter I'm speaking of includes all the old lvling spots from lvl 10-75, not just dunes. We can talk about dunes all day if u want. I'm down. Dunes is part of it and is also remediable tho its so extremely 2003. That makes it a great example of what we're talking about tho imho, but let's just not get confused and think that dunes is the whole subject matter. It's all the OG gameplay that used to happen to get from lvl 10-75 that's missing. I can see why the new updates make sense for the awesome FFXI end game and how they give life and longevity to the game. The new updates are genius! GENIUS! In fact if someone tried to counter those updates by implementing any kind of nerf it could be catastrophic for the current playerbase and thus FFXI itself. That's not necessary tho, both can be viable/coexist. It's good that there's other options to level and level quick if u want. For the longevity of FFXI that's good. But, adding options for the earlier expansions and gameplay to remain viable will add additional longevity to FFXI as well. Win/Win! Why win/loose when u can just as easy win/win?
I've mentioned previously that I think there's actually many possible ways to address this issue because it's kind of, more or less, a tiny code/algorith/xp boost update to fix. Easy fix. There's many ways it could happen. I mentioned the best one I thought of (subjectively as it is and as objective as I can be) and I also gave props to Urat for mentioning another possible solution. Perhaps the fact that there's so many easy solutions to the problem has over complicated it to the widely variegated team of devs?
I'm glad others are at least finally recognizing the issue that some of us are trying to talk about. What's the best solution???
Thanks
EDIT: What is the way to reward skill based parties with out too much AI help (trusts and NPC followers specifically), and keep the new players happy and NOT nerf the new ways??
I INSIST it's possible to keep the new stuff 100% intact/not discourage or push away new players AND breathe life into the older SKILL based play styles. I'm open to other ideas of how to do it though because there's many ways.
EDIT#2: You are right... Dunes PT's would end quick if my simple one second solution (it really is that easy tho) was implemented with out any kind of scaling or area/level considerations. But there's 2 quick responses I can give to that...
1 is that even a simple solution adds viable options again. If a level/etc. based mathematical consideration wasn't made per each area, then yes dunes would go quick... But would lvl 10-20 go quicker than it goes now? I think not. And it would slow down after dunes (qufim, kazam, nest, and so on). Hey maybe the fact it wouldn't do that much is good. It won't interfere with the new updates. By the time u did get to qufim, kazam, and nest tho, the leveling could slow down.
2 is that well it could scale if an extra day of thought/programming was put into finding ways to make 10-75 have viable OG leveling options similar to the speed (but preferably a little slower still) of new areas/styles.
There's so many ideas of how fast dunes/qufim/nest/ETC!!! should go, but there's also lots of ways to make it comparable to the new things.
My opinion is at dunes lvl 10-20 should take 12-20 hours with a good skill based party fighting IT mobs. If u disagree... Thats totally ok. Dunes is just a small part anyways. Just say ur opinion of how things could be adjusted. Any good adjustment made with this basic principle in mind will be a benefit to the players and devs of FFXI equally. A team of people thinking about this could come up with a great idea, but any thoughtful (i mean to say smart) person can by him/herself come up with a very good idea. Either way (a good or great idea) is better than no idea.
I want some kind of adjustment but i'm open to so many different possible ways it could happen.
Krishnaya
08-20-2015, 03:53 PM
double post sorry
Catmato
08-20-2015, 04:26 PM
If I had a good solution, I would have posted it. Instead, I'll just post anything that comes to mind.
In a 6-man exp party with no trusts:
Have a RoE that rewards Copper Vouchers
Give extra Conquest Points
Give free Accolades
Give free Sparks
Give free Tabs
Reward with Gil
Mobs drop more Seals
Mobs drop Dynamis currency
A Water Spirit comes to help you
Mobs drop Alexandrite
Mobs drop Plutons/Beitetsu/Boulders
Mobs drop HP Bayld
Princess Claidie dances for you in a bikini
Your fame goes up in that region
Lowers BSTs Ready cooldown to 5 seconds
Always have 3000 tp
Every mob killed makes Besieged start 1 minute earlier
SE continues console support until 2048
Free beer delivered to your house
Your other jobs delevel so you have something else to sync to
NMs spawn in place of exp mobs
Everyone on your blacklist gets banned
50 DKP-
Crafting skills randomly go up
Infinite ammo
Zeid dances for you in a bikini
Mobs drop relics
Mobs steal your relics
Augments are applied to the gear you're wearing
Can use Blue Magic on any job
Your flowers don't wilt
More Monstrosity monsters will be released
I think I'm about out of ideas.
Kensagaku
08-20-2015, 11:21 PM
I get what you're asking for Krish, but if we're getting 6k EXP/kill when chained (and chains frequently went to 3-6 unless you had to rest MP or someone died), you'd be out of the dunes in less than an hour, and the other places equally so. There's really not much difference from a full Trust party and a full normal player party now when it comes to leveling, except for the fact you can pick and choose your jobs instead of shouting/arguing for hours about finding a paladin, bard, and white mage until someone has to leave and the whole party falls apart. Well, that and the fact that people are (generally, with exceptions) smarter than the AI of Trusts. You could party up with a Trust group, and they gain skills and learn abilities at the same rate as any other player. Really aside from the lack of conversations there's not a lot of difference, but that's what a linkshell is for, whether it's social or endgame or whatever.
As an example I leveled my mule's RDM "the hard way," because it was a way to kill time and it was rather enjoyable to do so. I hit up a bunch of different camps going from the dunes to Sea Serpent Grotto's entrance to Crawler's Nest by the big drop-down room to The Boyhada Tree. But to me this was a lot better than the times of old party leveling, where you'd spend three hours waiting for someone who wanted to play PLD or NIN or RDM or BRD, and then by then your party has reshuffled itself five times over. By the time you got to camp someone else was already having to leave, forcing you to restart again, etc... and this was back when EXP was in its heyday!
Now you can literally just get up and go where you choose to. Does it have to be solo+trusts? No, bring a friend, or three! EXP, even with friends to "lower the EXP gain," is still faster than it used to be back then, and if you're arguing for old-school leveling and 10+ hours in the dunes, then nothing really needs to change. But the way you make the argument sound is that you still want to race up to the 99 cap, rather than enjoying the old leveling process, if the "I want to hit up to 6k EXP like in Adoulin areas" argument is any indication. If you want to slow down and enjoy the moment of old-school leveling, then do so, and don't be in such a hurry to get to 99.
RalphTheGalka
08-21-2015, 12:18 AM
Without a way to forcibly cap your level, old-school xp parties are dead and not coming back. I took a trip last night on a level 1 character, loaded up on a few weapons and called out my trusts. I started at Sandora and worked my way to the dunes. Just by killing random mobs along the way I had outlevelled the dunes before I had even gotten to the crag. I was getting between 600 and almost 2k per kill solo (no xp ring), it didn't take me long to outlevel an area solo. I was close to level 40 by the time I walked into Jeuno.
I speak from this perspective as someone who just grinded Bst 1-99 with his GF, and we did it the semi oldschool way.
Ronfaure -> Dunes -> Qufim -> Yuhtungha -> Yhoater -> etc
We used 4 trusts + us 2 + 2 pets, and we cleared content pretty quick. Despite what you think, past lv 50 it slowed down to a nice comfy pace, where levels took about 5 kills each. By level 80 it was taking a notable amount of time per level, but at this point we had beastmaster down pat and were killing very fast.
The issue was thus:
We got better exp solo with 5 trusts out than as a 2 man team with 4 trusts. No matter how hard we tried, the fact that trusts didnt use up exp meant splitting up and soloing with trusts resulted in us having 14 bodies killing instead of 8.
The solution is very very simple.
Being in a party doesnt reduce exp. Instead, you get a 5% exp bonus for every party member you have that is a PC that is the same level as you or lower.
Done. 25% exp bonus if you have a full party, but leachers cannot get the exp bonus. This promotes level synch (which makes everyone the same level so you all get the 25% bonus) and makes leachers fall farther and farther behind.
#2: Inflict a severe exp penalty on players in the following circumstances:
-Being below level 70 in Abyssea (-90% penalty)
-Being less than 10 levels below the level of the monster killed (-90% exp penalty)
-Being less than 10 levels below the recommend level of a Grounds of Valor or Fields of Valor quest (-95% penalty)
-Being less than level 75 and turning in an Adoulin Coalition Imprimatur (-90% penalty)
As it stands, extreme power levelling is infinitely faster than normal levelling of any kind and, most importantly, enables cheaters, botters, and the few RMT that exist, to grind themselves back up to level whatever in an hour.
Krishnaya
08-25-2015, 12:44 PM
I get what you're asking for Krish, but if we're getting 6k EXP/kill when chained (and chains frequently went to 3-6 unless you had to rest MP or someone died), you'd be out of the dunes in less than an hour, and the other places equally so.
You're telling me in the new area's it only takes an hour to level from level 10-20? Well can SE make it take like 4-8 hours (depending on PT skill) to get from lvl 10-20 with no trusts and greatly increase rewards such as beastman seals? Please see catmato's second post, Cat has great ideas. Urat also mentioned great ideas. There really is a good way to work this out I think.
But when there's only 99 level to grind through, why does it have to be as quick as 5 mobs per level? Only 250 mobs to get to level 50? Why? Should be 1000 or 2000. I wouldn't mind a slight (or large) nerf to this, but i'm trying to come up with ideas not including nerfing because I know that causes commotion in a gaming community. As i said cat and urat have great ideas too. I will try to wait til someone responds to their ideas before i post more of my own ideas.
There's really not much difference from a full Trust party and a full normal player party now when it comes to leveling, except for...
It's the skill players developed by playing against IT mobs in a 6 person party that's completely lacking. And the challenge of doing that most of all. Skill chains used to be required in any GOOD party. I'm trying to find/talk about a way to make 6 person parties rewarding again. If not by adjusting XP factors, what about things more along the line of what Cat said? I think there must be some way to adjust XP factors but there's a lot of possibilities. Why not something in the middle or rather a mix of all these ideas?
Really aside from the lack of conversations there's not a lot of difference, but that's what a linkshell is for, whether it's social or endgame or whatever.
I love my linkshell for the social and endgame, but if there were appealing rewards for leveling the old way then I could also ask my LS mates to PT with me, and a good LS has people with all dif job types and has a good enough relationship to usually not argue about things.
I'm starting to like Cats ideas a lot. What about taking away 50% of the XP reduction gotten by having multiple players AND adding some extra beast seals etc? I'm sure I could get full parties together regularly to level the old way and develop real skill (even with the new ways still being just as OP as they are now) if the xp was less nerfed with 6 people but was rewarding. Preferably a little bit slower still than the fastest newest ways of leveling.
But to me this was a lot better than the times of old party leveling, where you'd spend three hours waiting for someone who wanted to play PLD or NIN or RDM or BRD
I agree with you first of all! Keep the new leveling systems in tact so that's still possible, but give a reward for full 6 people parties. But I NEVER in my time had that problem because in my group of friends, mostly linkshell friends, we had a few tanks and healers. I had both and switched between the two as my friends needed.
Now you can literally just get up and go where you choose to. Does it have to be solo+trusts? No, bring a friend, or three! EXP, even with friends to "lower the EXP gain," is still faster than it used to be back then, and if you're arguing for old-school leveling and 10+ hours in the dunes, then nothing really needs to change.
Good points for sure. I thought it took longer than 10 hours, because, when I joined in 2003, it took a week to get through dunes. If u want me to say specific times I would argue for (though i'm trying to keep it simple and basic rather than specific) dunes to take like 5 hours lvl 10-20 and increase BST drops for no TRUSTS. Again, maybe Cat's ideas are best.
If it does take ten hours though maybe the XP factors don't need to be changed much at all (i still think some of the XP reduction should be removed from extra players at this point). The thing that would need to be changed is for there to be a reward that convinces people who don't remember the old ways of leveling to at least give it a try with any older players, or anyone wanting to test their skills.
But the way you make the argument sound is that you still want to race up to the 99 cap, rather than enjoying the old leveling process, if the "I want to hit up to 6k EXP like in Adoulin areas" argument is any indication. If you want to slow down and enjoy the moment of old-school leveling, then do so, and don't be in such a hurry to get to 99.
Awesome, you're bringing it home for me, making it personal. I can explain...
I absolutely am NOT in a rush to level to 99. I'd be ok with it taking just as long before, but I know most people are not ok with that. The worst part of the old leveling system is indeed solved by the trusts. The worst part was spending hours sometimes looking for a certain job. Now there's level sync although it's not used any more since the trusts. But still level sync is there and I know I could get groups of people together to sync if there was some kind of reward for that.
I just miss the challenge of the game and the skills players used to develop while leveling their jobs more than anything though. Add rewards for no trusts parties. Something to make it maybe not as fast as the new ways but rewarding somehow. Make people give it a try again is all.
Kensagaku has very intelligently pointed out that negating the XP reduction from PT members would make the old ways just as fast as the new! That would be sad actually, but the problem now is not so many people even wanna try. What about reducing the amount of XP loss from multiple players instead of negating it and adding other incentives?
I'd prefer it to be just as slow as the old way, but I'd be ok with it being a bit faster and incentives being added. What ever gets more people to try. My LS mates talk about how they wish this as well.
I speak from this perspective as someone who just grinded Bst 1-99 with his GF, and we did it the semi oldschool way.
Did you fight VT-IT mobs? That's what it used to be all about. Actually my parties were usually more in the IT-IT++ range than the VT-IT, but even bad parties werent interested in anything less than VT back in the day.
[#1]Being in a party doesnt reduce exp. Instead, you get a 5% exp bonus for every party member you have that is a PC that is the same level as you or lower.
Done. 25% exp bonus if you have a full party, but leachers cannot get the exp bonus. This promotes level synch (which makes everyone the same level so you all get the 25% bonus) and makes leachers fall farther and farther behind
#2: Inflict a severe exp penalty on players in the following circumstances:
-Being below level 70 in Abyssea (-90% penalty)
-Being less than 10 levels below the level of the monster killed (-90% exp penalty)
-Being less than 10 levels below the recommend level of a Grounds of Valor or Fields of Valor quest (-95% penalty)
-Being less than level 75 and turning in an Adoulin Coalition Imprimatur (-90% penalty)
As it stands, extreme power levelling is infinitely faster than normal levelling of any kind and, most importantly, enables cheaters, botters, and the few RMT that exist, to grind themselves back up to level whatever in an hour.
Wow these are great ideas. Really.
Without a way to forcibly cap your level, old-school xp parties are dead and not coming back.
What do you mean forcibly cap your level? There's level sync, but I'm not sure what you mean.
Another idea:
Add an XP reduction for trusts. What kind of a reduction could be up for discussion. I could come up with 10 different ways to do that. Some would include only a certain amount to nerf trusts, and some would combine doing that with, at least to some degree, reducing the XP loss by having multiple people.
Maybe the best thing to do would to be make the XP reduction equal for trusts and players. I'd prefer to do this by fully implementing the same/current XP reduction gotten from player party members onto trusts. If that's displeasing to others though, there's lots of other possibilities. IE: Make trust XP loss and player XP loss equal but not as bad as the old way?
There's way to mix this with Urat's most recent (and really good) 2 suggestions, and Cat's ideas, and my ideas. There's ways to do it for sure that will benefit the longevity of FFXI and it's playerbase.
RalphTheGalka
08-25-2015, 02:45 PM
Level sync doesn't help much because the person you're syncing to gains xp and goes up levels. If you can't force yourself to stay at level 10 or level 15 or some arbitrary number you'll outlevel the dunes before you even get there as I proved with my trip the other week. It wasn't an hour to get from 10 to 20, it wasn't even 15 minutes. A walk from Sandoria newbie zone towards Holla crag along the road. I was level 40 before I walked into Jeuno. It wasn't even an hour from Sandoria to Jeuno and I stopped to afk a while.
Kensagaku
08-25-2015, 04:16 PM
I know that this has been acknowledged, but I would like to again state that removing the exp penalty for parties won't change anything. To serve as an example, I was leveling my mule's RNG in the dunes just today from level 12-25. It took me a grand total of about an hour with four trusts, and that was with me skilling up Marksmanship as I was going rather than engaging in melee range. No EXP ring used, just the double EXP campaign and killing VT/IT mobs. I was leveling roughly every five or so kills, if that, because I was getting more than 1k EXP per kill, and they didn't take long. That was with Trusts, and no EXP penalties. Remove party EXP penalties, and you're in the same boat; you spend next to no time in the dunes. So simply removing EXP penalties, as you've said, will not fix anything.
Don't get me wrong, there are days I miss leveling the old way. I liked the longevity because it let me meet people and make friends as I went. Sometimes it dragged, other times it went by like lightning. I have a lot of good memories of that time, and I can understand the desire to go back to it. But the game has changed drastically since then, and as a result, we have to adapt to the changes. With all of the EXP bonuses they give us now, the goal is to get to 99 ASAP so that we can participate in the active content with the other players. They have given us ways to do so to make up for the lower number of players that makes it difficult to make a traditional party by giving us Trusts. This is just something we have to adapt to; the game isn't going to magically rewind to those old days.
As an idea for an incentive, however, here's an idea: Add a custom RoE objective of "Party Kills," in which you must have a party of X players or more (I'd suggest around three, rather than a full six), that awards sparks and exp as normal. This would make EXPing a little faster even if the penalty isn't removed, but would also offer an incentive for people to party up, earning extra sparks for gear as they go, or even at 99 when doing CP parties they can earn extra sparks (not that they're hard to cap out...) to convert to gil or things like chapters or etched memories. I did not suggest an item or CP added because the former promotes the possibility of abuse with someone heavily multiboxing for multiplied rewards while the latter doesn't apply to lower-level players and doesn't really incentivize partying at those levels. Perhaps Party Kills I (repeatable) would be for leveling, and Party Kills II (repeatable) would include a level 99 minimum that awards CP too. Incentives to work together as a whole, perhaps? Just a thought on my end.
On one last closing note, and I apologize for nitpicking, I want to argue one last point you made. "It's the skill players developed by playing against IT mobs in a 6 person party that's completely lacking. And the challenge of doing that most of all. Skill chains used to be required in any GOOD party." The thing is that you don't really develop a lot of skill just by fighting IT mobs. Back then, everything was very cut-and-dry on what you were expected to do. Early on you'd see a lot of tank + warrior so that the warrior could pull hate long enough for a thief to SATA Viper Bite and save up TP for the next mob. That was the general gist of it, and the rest was just people following the standard swing-and-kill method. There was no "skill" to be learned by grinding against ITs, because their difficulty was rather minor and generally static, with the only threat being the damage they did thanks to having higher stats. No, skill was picked up by studying the job, not just throwing it at mobs. As a common saying, a skilled player can burn a job and still learn to play it excellently, but a poor player can take the long road all day and still be bad at it.
Krishnaya
08-25-2015, 11:14 PM
On one last closing note, and I apologize for nitpicking, I want to argue one last point you made... As a common saying, a skilled player can burn a job and still learn to play it excellently, but a poor player can take the long road all day and still be bad at it.
All good. Nitpicking isn't always a bad thing. Thanks really.
What about making the XP nerf apply to trusts as well? Trusts would still solve the problem of having to wait for a certain class. Could be equal for both player and trust at least. That plus a couple incentives could go along way toward bringing players together.
It's true a good player will develop his skill no matter what, but 0-99 is waaaaaaaaay easy now lol. And I do think it took more skill before though there were always noobs who u had to tell what to do, and create a <call><Weapon Skill.><Please.> to tell the noob RNG or something to WS in time for SC, and etc. but in general was more skilled. Also my parties used to fight IT-IT++ mobs, and I soloed/duoed VT-IT as bst. So ya, that really was more difficult. ijs.
I really like some of Urats ideas in his last post.
Level sync doesn't help much because the person you're syncing to gains xp and goes up levels. If you can't force yourself to stay at level 10 or level 15 or some arbitrary number you'll outlevel the dunes before you even get there as I proved with my trip the other week. It wasn't an hour to get from 10 to 20, it wasn't even 15 minutes. A walk from Sandoria newbie zone towards Holla crag along the road. I was level 40 before I walked into Jeuno. It wasn't even an hour from Sandoria to Jeuno and I stopped to afk a while.
Am I the only one that thinks this is ridiculous?
I understand what Kensa said about the idea now being to lvl to 99 as fast as possible but it's a bit rediculous right now. Please add xp cut to trusts as well as players and make it even between the two (even if that means reducing the amount of XP lost by having PC/NPC pt members). Then, above that, add a BONUS for real players as Urat suggested.
Urats ideas in his OP shouldn't be completely left out either. I just think those aren't being discussed as much because they're easy to fix. Really. Gardening, Choco digging, and explorers footsteps... Why not make these worth it again? Black belt I don't know much about so no comment. Never played MNK past lvl 50 or something. All old content needs some love. The things mentioned in the OP as well as adding some love the leveling system... Dare we bring up CoP, Sky, etc.?
I do think SE could've brought in the new without throwing the old out so fast. It happened so fast lol.
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Back to the original topic before this got derailed by talking about exp
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An Explorer's Footsteps
This quest was once the way to get the map of crawler's nest. Now that it isn't, its not worth doing. Please add a nice fat reward for players who collect all 18 tablets, to give incentive to go explore the nooks and crannies of this world you made. Maybe something as simple as a special title, or a pile of gil.
I think giving a ring with a 1/1 warp to the mayor's house in Selbina would be a good reward. They could make sure that everyone who did it before got one by adding it to the ROE objectives.
It would not be terrifically useful, but it would be fun and symbolic.
PANKRATON
I would really like to see some rewards added to Pankraton. Basically if you get a 5 win streak, some kind of reward, a 10 win streak some kind of reward, etc. Or something. It's just sad that this content was never rewarding and still isn't. It's a pretty fun system but no one does it.
Some accessories of around 117 level would nice. (yes I know accessories don't have ilevel but I mean of that general power). How about adding a method of obtaining the trophies already created?
I also had the idea that you could have a pankraton pet turned into a trust (only 1 pet at a time). I still like that idea but I guess it would take too much coding.