How a f2p system could work on ffxi.

[Castanica]

I play a game called warframe,

On this game you can buy anything you can farm, as well as skins and cosmetics.

On FFXI they could make it so that you have to buy everything with crysta.

They could sell all farmable items like dynamis coins, alex, snowslit stones etc. This makes money off impatience but a f2p player can still easily farm all these items.

Cosmetics could be like the cosmetic suits that the dev team have already been making, the behemoth outfit, goblin suit and the other cosmetics.

Also xp and gil boosters.

This isn't p2w before someone says it, this is pay for convenience.

This system would turn a marginally profitable game that Square have little interest in into a much more profitable one with a very strong future, many f2p games don't have massive numbers of servers or players. They just give more options to make money.

[Seillan]

Did you really need to make another thread of the exact same topic?

I doubt seriously that going F2P would help the game -- at this point especially. If anything, it would piss off enough of the vet players to probably cause more harm than good in the long run. I also don't really see the people that typically play F2P titles clamoring for an old school mmo like FFXI in the first place. I guess we'll see how that plays out once the mobile version is released (assuming it's not a totally bastardized version of the game, anyway.)

I'd also argue that some of that sounds exactly like P2W. If you're able to buy all of those farmable items with real money, you're literally paying to "win" some of the achievements of the game in a sense, without any actual effort involved. How else can that be interpreted?

[Isal]

Did you really need to make another thread of the exact same topic? [...]

The free access period is over, how else are they gonna log back in?? I kid, I kid...

I feel like it'd be better to leave the cash shop as an option for cosmetics, if you're really going to do that. In my situation, paying the current monthly fee would be justified for a good while yet, seeing as I think I've only just gotten into the Zilart content for the first time since I picked the game up in 2003 (and I don't mean RoV, I mean the original Zilart content). Given the number of characters I've seen pop up in the cities with ?'s next to their names, I'm apparently not alone. Combine that with their plans to cut costs on running the game as well as their statement that they currently have no plans to change the monthly fee despite the end of service for PS2 and 360 (which isn't happening until March 2016), I'd imagine the subscription will likely stay the same for quite a while yet.

[kaerin]

No.
Thanks.

[Stompa]

They could sell all farmable items like dynamis coins, alex, snowslit stones etc. This makes money off impatience but a f2p player can still easily farm all these items.

So why not just farm them?

You're contradicting yourself, by saying that in a FTP version where "Player X" will get all of FFXI for free, in a game where RME materials are so easy to farm, and then you say that Player X will still hand over cold hard cash for those easy to get items.

Surely if the person is enjoying the truly awesome FFXI videogame for free, and is able to get these RME items easily, why would they stop enjoying their Free Ride by wasting cash money on those easy items.

It makes no sense, and it didn't in all the previous threads either.

[detlef]

It makes no sense, and it didn't in all the previous threads either.Be patient. It will most assuredly make sense in the third thread. Please look forward to it.

[Castanica]

It's not pay to win, because you can farm everything. It's called pay for convenience, impatience basically. P2w is when you can buy the item from the cash shop and that is the only way to get them.

The thing to keep in mind is that many titles use systems like this and are successful, you greatly under-estimate impatience.

Everquest 1 is an old game, has a cash shop and is free to play. There is no free to play market, everyone can play a f2p game. It's just the mental block people have about it, the mental block many here have is the same as everyquest 1 players had. They had to get past it to keep the game alive.

Here is the reality of FFXI:
It's an old game that can't attract young players.
The players the game has are not enough for Square Enix and we are about to lose a lot of them.
The only way to make a game in this position profitable again is to make more money from the players it has, like it or not.
So you offer them more things to be able to buy, most players would not mind spending more money if they get something from it.

As an intermediary point they could add a cosmetic cash shop while retaining a lower sub fee and see how much extra money they can make from that.

I understand many of you have issues with f2p, mainly because you have never played a f2p game that was any good. I have, I moved past the mental block I had and when the game starts really going into death mode and it becomes more obvious I think many of you will come around to the idea. F2p is better than a dead game.

[Stompa]

Be patient. It will most assuredly make sense in the third thread. Please look forward to it.

I'm counting these two titled threads, and the other threads which got off-topic Ftp advertisements posted in them too, and its already a lot more than three.

Its starting to feel a bit like a hostage-taking situation. "I am holding your beloved FFXI as my hostage, and if you don't let me buy game treasure with dollars, your beloved game will surely die soon."
:rolleyes:

[Shirai]

"I am holding your beloved FFXI as my hostage, and if you don't let me buy afterglow RMEs with dollars, I'm going to start sending you pieces of moogle in the mail, one piece every day."
:rolleyes:

I am a cat with a very specific set of skills, iif I find out that you're hurting even one Moogle, I will find you and you will be fed to Ifrit.

[Stompa]

I am a cat with a very specific set of skills, iif I find out that you're hurting even one Moogle, I will find you and you will be fed to Ifrit.

I'm no hostage-taker lol. I'm not the one saying that if my demands are not met, the game will die.

I made requests for automaton costumes, but never in multiple threads, and I never posted a suffix saying that if we didn't get automaton costumes, the whole game would die forever.

:p

[Castanica]

I'm counting these two titled threads, and the other threads which got off-topic Ftp advertisements posted in them too, and its already a lot more than three.

Its starting to feel a bit like a hostage-taking situation. "I am holding your beloved FFXI as my hostage, and if you don't let me buy game treasure with dollars, your beloved game will surely die soon."
:rolleyes:

Stopping console support, 1/3 of JP playes are on consoles.
They aren't offering free PC copies to these console players that have paid many hundreds or thousands of dollars.
They are having an official end to the story.
They are stopping support.

I'm not sure what you take from all that but to me it doesn't state the game has much of a future, the only way that will change is if the game becomes more profitable. Nothing short of a monetisation change is going to do that.

The only future ffxi seems to have is on mobile phones, being run by nexon. Nexon have a terrible reputation.

[Stompa]

Stopping console support, 1/3 of JP playes are on consoles.
They aren't offering free PC copies to these console players that have paid many hundreds or thousands of dollars.
They are having an official end to the story.
They are stopping support.

I'm not sure what you take from all that but to me it doesn't state the game has much of a future, the only way that will change is if the game becomes more profitable. Nothing short of a monetisation change is going to do that.

The only future ffxi seems to have is on mobile phones, being run by nexon. Nexon have a terrible reputation.

I'm not 100% sure of this, but aren't SE offering the full PC game as free download? I haven't really checked it because I'm still running my old install from ages ago, but I think I saw that somewhere.

I have JP friends on my mostly-JP linkshell, some of them are on PS2 and they will change to PC when the time comes. Its only a small sample of players obviously.

The problem I have with these "FtP-or-die" threads is that they are relentless and depressing. The first time it was raised as a topic we all discussed it, and I was like its cool that people are discussing their feelings on it. But its getting really overbearing now.

Also, I do VW with my static, they're all building Empys, they aren't talking about how the game is going to die for sure. They're just playing the game and paying subs for it, and trying to stay optimistic and happy and stuff.

Some people have been building Empys for like 5 years, doing a few hours after finishing work on occasional evenings. How do you think they will feel if some kid can buy the same Empy with $$$ in like a few seconds flat.

I pay subs and sometimes all I do is log-in to give cabbages to my mog-garden pet Karakul, and watch his little happy love-hearts going up. I'm happy paying subs just to mess around and pwn mobs with my friends, I don't think the subs are expensive, and I don't see the end of updates as any kind of killing blow to Vanadiel as an immersive and enjoyable virtual world online.

We don't know that FFXI would survive without subs, using only FtP cash-shop input from occasional players who don't want to play the game and kill mobs and get treasure <That way.> I think this particular game would implode really quickly under the FtP model.

I just think we don't know the future, how the game will manage when the updates stop, maybe there will be more than enough fans paying subs to keep it running for ages, we simply don't know. And in the meantime I would sooner not be bombarded with lots of "the game is going to die!" stuff all the time.

[Seillan]

I'm no hostage-taker lol. I'm not the one saying that if my demands are not met, the game will die.

I made requests for things like automaton costumes etc. but never in multiple threads, and I never posted a suffix that if we didn't get automaton costumes, the whole game would die forever

I don't know, I thought the "pieces of moogle" thing was pretty hilarious, personally :p.

OT: In regards to the OP's post inferring that we "never played a f2p game that was any good", I'd be willing to bet I've played just as many mmorpgs as you (if not more), including just about any F2P mmorpg that's actually worth playing. It doesn't change my opinion.

It's also funny that you mention Everquest in your argument as one of the games that had to go F2P to survive. That's a bit fallacious as the game didn't actually go full-on F2P. It went with a hybrid system, and a relatively strict one at that. It's basically nothing more than a glorified trial. Anyone that wants to progress to any meaningful extent in the game (getting to AA cap and such) will undoubtedly need to subscribe, making the "F2P" thing almost entirely moot. Using EQ as an example doesn't really make your case.

So, just to put things in perspective, in order to make your F2P proposal a success, the majority of the playerbase would not only have to be in agreement with the model change (something I seriously doubt), but they'd also have to be willing to contribute a considerable amount to the cash shop in order for the game to make up for the thousands of subscription fees lost suddenly, while also spending enough extra to increase profits by a considerable extent (otherwise the transition would be pointless, right?) Call me a skeptic, but I really don't see the aforementioned scenario actually playing out so nicely. Not on this game and definitely not at this point.

[Stompa]

I don't know, I thought the "pieces of moogle" thing was pretty hilarious, personally :p.


Hopefully they'll put us in adjoining cells when we're sent to Kupotraz Island. I'd like that, you're cute. :)

[Seillan]

Hopefully they'll put us in adjoining cells when we're sent to Kupotraz Island. I'd like that, you're cute. :)

I'd say you're making me blush, but with this permanently-rosy, rosacea thing we taru have going on, it's hard to tell. And I'd like that too. :D

[Castanica]

I don't know, I thought the "pieces of moogle" thing was pretty hilarious, personally :p.

OT: In regards to the OP's post inferring that we "never played a f2p game that was any good", I'd be willing to bet I've played just as many mmorpgs as you (if not more), including just about any F2P mmorpg that's actually worth playing. It doesn't change my opinion.

It's also funny that you mention Everquest in your argument as one of the games that had to go F2P to survive. That's a bit fallacious as the game didn't actually go full-on F2P. It went with a hybrid system, and a relatively strict one at that. It's basically nothing more than a glorified trial. Anyone that wants to progress to any meaningful extent in the game (getting to AA cap and such) will undoubtedly need to subscribe, making the "F2P" thing almost entirely moot. Using EQ as an example doesn't really make your case.

So, just to put things in perspective, in order to make your F2P proposal a success, the majority of the playerbase would not only have to be in agreement with the model change (something I seriously doubt), but they'd also have to be willing to contribute a considerable amount to the cash shop in order for the game to make up for the thousands of subscription fees lost suddenly, while also spending enough extra to increase profits by a considerable extent (otherwise the transition would be pointless, right?) Call me a skeptic, but I really don't see the aforementioned scenario actually playing out so nicely. Not on this game and definitely not at this point.

Every mmo I played that went f2p was complained about by the players "oh I'll quit if it goes f2p!", almost all of them stuck around after f2p and the game did add more players and did increase revenue.

Also a hybrid system would be fine, a pure p2p system is not.

Is it depressing to talk about? sure, keep in mind I was subbed to ffxi for nearly 6 years and I thought as you did. The point is it's more depressing what Square will do to this game if they can't increase profits, all they care about is cold hard cash. They have very little loyalty to a game that made them lots of money, they only care about what it can do for them now.

[Isal]

The PC version is completely free to anyone who already has an account ( http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/download/media/install_win.html - Full game + all expansions/add-on content ), and their reduced team will still be there for bugs, balance, and Quality of Life adjustments, all of which fall under the "support" category.

[Castanica]

The PC version is completely free to anyone who already has an account ( http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/download/media/install_win.html - Full game + all expansions/add-on content ), and their reduced team will still be there for bugs, balance, and Quality of Life adjustments, all of which fall under the "support" category.

There are no bugs unless they add new content, also what is qol adjustments. Nobody knows.

[Isal]

There are no bugs unless they add new content, also what is qol adjustments. Nobody knows.

They recently expanded the number of RoE quests you can have active at a time. That's one example of a Quality of Life adjustment. The idea of there being absolutely no bugs is a bit optimistic.