Please make FFXI f2p!

[Castanica]

So I read about the retiring of ffxi and the removal of the developers from the project.

Does this mean we will get a f2p model or at least a drastic lowering of the subscription?

A subscription pays for a game to be updated, that's the whole point of it. You pay for the developers wages to make new content right? That will be soon removed.

Now that FFXI will be PC only a f2p model will work really well, optional items for impatient players and various cosmetics would make the smaller playerbase this game has incredibly profitable.

To quote south park: Make the game about waiting (current FFXI) and let players pay not to wait (f2p money fountain). Look at a game like Warframe on steam, that game makes nearly $30 million a quarter currently, and it's not even a very complex game.

The old arguments against f2p are honestly done and dusted since the game will soon be put out to pasture, at this point they really need a f2p system or it simply won't be sustainable into 2016 and beyond.

Currently playing and posting due to the f2p 2 week thingy!

[vienne]

f2p, no thanks. A lower sub i'd support after november. Serverss need maintenance, they still need devs for bugs and tweaks, they need mods for these forum and GM's in game, they need to pay the cleaning lady that does the office too. I'm ok with paying for this basic service rather then paying in game for stupid cosmetics or to give people the ability to buy progression.

[Stompa]

A subscription pays for a game to be updated, that's the whole point of it. You pay for the developers wages to make new content right? That will be soon removed.


Not really true. I pay subs for a lot of games that never "change" in terms of updates, like online Chess groups and online Dice/Cards gambling groups. Games like Poker and Chess never get updated (not in thousands of years!) but people still pay to be members in some of those online groups.

We can agree that Chess and Poker are classic games. People love to play those games online, with strangers from around the world. Some of those groups are of course free, but there are also paid membership groups. The difference in free and paid groups for those games, is that the paid-membership Poker/Chess groups have glitch-free service which are moderated and controlled to preserve fairness and enthusiasm. The free versions are often a huge headache / trainwreck and less fun to be part of.

FFXI is also a classic game. It will remain a classic game after it stops being updated (ie. altered). We will still be playing a classic game online, with likeminded people from around the world. And so we should pay subs for that service.

I reject the notion that a game that has no updates is basically "dead" which is what has been said in a few threads. If it is a fun game, a classic game, then you can still enjoy playing it, even after the updates stop. It is only dead to you, if you as an individual stop enjoying it.

Also "no thanks" to the idea of cash shops / pay to progress etc. This game requires some patience, a lot of the best classic games require patience. Being in a hurry to finish things is not really what a good game is about. Playing the game by the rules, enjoying it and making progress using skill and perseverance, are what all classic games are about.

Why should we base a game's worth on how much it is updated. Surely we should base a game's worth on the core game itself, how much we enjoy the basic mechanisms of the game, the rule structures, storylines, atmosphere etc.

Currently FFXI is a huge explorable world, with hugely immersive content and very nice gear / battle / character-progress systems etc. After the updates end this year, FFXI will still remain this exact same huge world, with all those great features still intact. The only question is, do you enjoy playing FFXI?

I do, and since FFXI will still be available after the updates end, I will still enjoy playing it and I am happy to pay subs for the chance to enjoy this classic online game, even without updates.

[Castanica]

f2p, no thanks. A lower sub i'd support after november. Serverss need maintenance, they still need devs for bugs and tweaks, they need mods for these forum and GM's in game, they need to pay the cleaning lady that does the office too. I'm ok with paying for this basic service rather then paying in game for stupid cosmetics or to give people the ability to buy progression.

What do you have against f2p? You would prefer the game to die?

My guess is that you have never actually played a f2p game and have wild ideas of exactly what that entails.

[vienne]

What do you have against f2p? You would prefer the game to die?

My guess is that you have never actually played a f2p game and have wild ideas of exactly what that entails.

I have played GW2 (which yes its not totally f2p) Aion, Rift, I have a pretty good idea about what f2p is and i dont like the concept. This game will not die any slower with going f2p.

[Castanica]

I have played GW2 (which yes its not totally f2p) Aion, Rift, I have a pretty good idea about what f2p is and i dont like the concept. This game will not die any slower with going f2p.

F2p saved numerous games that would of otherwise died.

The funeral for FFXi has been given a date, quite why you would rather a game die than go f2p is beyond me.

[Ethereal]

Elder Scrolls Online went F2P and the community grew. The monthly fee was holding back people that were on the fence.

[vienne]

F2p saved numerous games that would of otherwise died.

The funeral for FFXi has been given a date, quite why you would rather a game die than go f2p is beyond me.
f2p has saved numerous young games with no loyal playerbase, while ffxi has 13 years on the counter. Which it wouldnt have if not for a loyal playerbase. You are speculating about the soon to be end of ffxi which is not for anytime soon. SE will not allow ffxi to go f2p as long more lemons can be squeezed. This topic has been brought up numerous times, never has any mod or dev given a reaction on this, your wish is highly unlikely. I did say i'm OK with a lower subscription fee after november.

[Isal]

I'd only see the need to reduce the price of the subscription fee after the final update. The only way I'd (personally) condone a F2P model is if the game play experience in the game remains exactly as it is on the current model if I continue to pay the same or reduced subscription fee every month. If I have to pay any more than that to get the same experience on the F2P model, then forget it. Any time I see an MMO switch to requiring microtransactions out the butt like the app games out there today (wanna keep playing? Just buy more <insert game's name for currency here>! The more you play, the more you pay!), I'm completely turned off. (I'm not referring to EXP/XP, I mean the literal experience of playing the game)

Given that Square Enix has plans for a native mobile client some time in 2016, I'd wager they have plans for the game's subscription model for the next 1-2 years at least, I wouldn't expect the "funeral" until then.

[Castanica]

f2p has saved numerous young games with no loyal playerbase, while ffxi has 13 years on the counter. Which it wouldnt have if not for a loyal playerbase. You are speculating about the soon to be end of ffxi which is not for anytime soon. SE will not allow ffxi to go f2p as long more lemons can be squeezed. This topic has been brought up numerous times, never has any mod or dev given a reaction on this, your wish is highly unlikely. I did say i'm OK with a lower subscription fee after november.

Go look up Everquest 1.

I would play this game and spend money if it was f2p, I won't pay a subscription for a game that gets no updates.

I'm playing it now, only because it's free.

As I said, the funeral date has been given. November.

[Dale]

So I read about the retiring of ffxi and the removal of the developers from the project.

Does this mean we will get a f2p model or at least a drastic lowering of the subscription?

A subscription pays for a game to be updated, that's the whole point of it. You pay for the developers wages to make new content right? That will be soon removed.

Now that FFXI will be PC only a f2p model will work really well, optional items for impatient players and various cosmetics would make the smaller playerbase this game has incredibly profitable.

To quote south park: Make the game about waiting (current FFXI) and let players pay not to wait (f2p money fountain). Look at a game like Warframe on steam, that game makes nearly $30 million a quarter currently, and it's not even a very complex game.

The old arguments against f2p are honestly done and dusted since the game will soon be put out to pasture, at this point they really need a f2p system or it simply won't be sustainable into 2016 and beyond.

Currently playing and posting due to the f2p 2 week thingy!

I agree with you that if they stop adding new content then subscription fees are not justified.

Dropping the monthly fee won't keep veterans on the game who have run out of things to do. It would probably lure some newer players into the game though. So going F2P might stretch out the life span of Final Fantasy XI if it is their intent to pull the plug soon anyway.

These are answers quite apart from should they . The old arguments against f2p models are valid. There is a reason f2p games require less staff, development, and investment. They are basically the Wal Marts of the industry - sacrificing quality for lower upkeep costs and higher profits.

My understanding is that SE has said only that they would stop creating new content for the Xbox and Play Station 2. Yet everyone on these forums seem confident this game is basically dying in November. So I'm not sure what to believe or what is happening.

I'm just going to play this game until there is nothing left for me to do. When that happens I'll find something else to play. I have decided there is no point worrying about the future.

[bungiefanNA]

Everquest 1 is also still getting expansions. IIRC, they're at over 20 of them now.

[Castanica]

The thing to keep in mind is that Square think this game is not worth the effort right now, they did a simple calculation of subscribers - the loss of console players and said it's done.

If they went with a f2p model and it became more profitable that could very well change, that could very well convince them to add content to it again.

A f2p game does not need a massive subscriber base to be profitable. This may be the only lifeline the game has going forward, it would be a travesty if a) the game died and b) the mobile app version (which you can bet will have in-app purchases) makes more money than this one does.

It saddens me that people are being so short sighted, once November comes players are going to be shocked how few players stick around.

[Stompa]

The thing to keep in mind is that Square think this game is not worth the effort right now, they did a simple calculation of subscribers - the loss of console players and said it's done.

If they went with a f2p model and it became more profitable that could very well change, that could very well convince them to add content to it again.

A f2p game does not need a massive subscriber base to be profitable. This may be the only lifeline the game has going forward, it would be a travesty if a) the game died and b) the mobile app version (which you can bet will have in-app purchases) makes more money than this one does.

It saddens me that people are being so short sighted, once November comes players are going to be shocked how few players stick around.

I don't think anyone can be short-sighted on this, because nobody knows what is going to happen in the future. We are all guessing. These are uncharted waters. FFXI is not the same as those other games. FFXI is a unique game in many ways, with a famously loyal core playerbase. We simply do not know how many people will stay on next year and beyond. You say hardly anyone, I think maybe quite a lot. But we don't know!

In the beginning you were saying that you shouldn't have to pay money for a game that has no updates, but then later on you're saying that you will be happy to spend money in FFXI, if the money goes directly to buying gear/progress. In both cases you are paying money for a game that has no updates, so it sounds like you're saying the updates aren't the real issue, but getting gear/progress without actually farming it, is.

And you talk about longevity, don't you see that FFXI has survived this long partly because of the fact that people worked on long-term projects like RME and crafting mastery etc. A snapshot of the FTP/cash shop system, in terms of longevity, is ; player X buys their capped jobpoints/craft skills, buys afterglow RME etc., wanders around hitting some mobs, stands around glowing in town, gets bored, walks away and never comes back.

You don't know how many people will quit when updates stop and neither do I. However I know a lot of legitimate players who have been building their Empys for years, and who want to finish their Empys, and <wait for it> when they've finished their Empys they want to actually play the game using those Empys! People are not spending years building RME and afterglows, capping jobpoints etc. just so they can quit. They are investing all that time and effort, because they want to play the game using that nice gear and those skills.

Which raises the final point, did you consider all those people who built / are still building RME, all those who levelled jobs the legit way, got craft mastery the legit way. How do you think those people will react if there was suddenly a FTP/Cash Shop with people buying all the stuff that other players had worked so hard for? Do you think that would encourage longevity? Do you not think that might actually lose the faithful playerbase who like to play RPG Adventure games by actually going out in the RPG world and <gasp!> Adventuring in it.

I know a lot of people who will keep playing this game so long as it is online, and are happy paying subs for it. But I don't know anyone in my friends community who want to see gear/progress going on sale in a FTP model. So I think there will still be a lot of people wanting to play after updates end, but this is only my guess - I'm not stating it as a fact, since nobody knows the future.

I agree with Vienne and other posters, a slight lowering of subs makes sense, when the major dev work stops. But subs are still important to keep the unadulterated version of FFXI online and supervised.

[Isal]

The people who still play even after they've completed the latest content aren't going to just up and quit after November. If there's a reason for them to be logged in for the whole gap between content releases, then odds are that reason isn't going to be affected by a lack of new content patches.

How many of the console-only players also own a mobile device in this day and age? How many who own mobile devices would find FFXI appealing enough to buy into it and start at the beginning of 13 years worth of content?

For all we know, the mobile client will bring in enough returning console players and mobile gamers in general to inspire SE to do something fresh with Vana'diel. It just seems premature (to me) to set a dooms day and start calling people short sighted.

[Castanica]

I think people are not taking something into account, all console versions of FFXI will cease to exist in November.

The mobile game is a totally separate entity too.

The mobile version looks horrible too :(

http://www.androidcentral.com/final-fantasy-xi-mobile-announced

[Isal]

I think people are not taking something into account, all console versions of FFXI will cease to exist in November.

The mobile game is a totally separate entity too.

The mobile version looks horrible too :(

http://www.androidcentral.com/final-fantasy-xi-mobile-announced

I only see the same news about the announcement, nothing showing the mobile client itself in order for it to "look horrible". If you're saying "looks horrible" just because Nexon is involved... I get that, but still too soon to judge until we actually see how it will look/work.

[Dale]

It saddens me that people are being so short sighted, once November comes players are going to be shocked how few players stick around.

I don't think they are being short-sighted. Rather they are just hoping for the best.

I hate to say it though - but I think you're right. If new content stops I think most players will move on. MMORPGs depend on the evolution of its gameplay to survive. If there is no future - people are going to start looking for a game that has one.

[Castanica]

I only see the same news about the announcement, nothing showing the mobile client itself in order for it to "look horrible". If you're saying "looks horrible" just because Nexon is involved... I get that, but still too soon to judge until we actually see how it will look/work.

It shows the races and characters that will be used on the android game in the logo.

[Castanica]

I don't think they are being short-sighted. Rather they are just hoping for the best.

I hate to say it though - but I think you're right. If new content stops I think most players will move on. MMORPGs depend on the evolution of its gameplay to survive. If there is no future - people are going to start looking for a game that has one.

November is really going to open peoples eyes, I just hope it opens them in such a way to realise that you have to evolve or you die. F2p could save the game and I hope people see that, there are a lot of people that want to keep playing this game and it could also usher in renewed interest from Square once they see they can make more money from f2p than subs. You only have to look at xiv to see that players will spend a lot of money on their cash shops buying ponies and silly hats.

Before someone says well ffxi is old, the most profitable mmo titles on the market are the old titles. Lineage 1 makes more money than Guild wars 2, blade and soul and wildstar combined. Everquest 1 is still popular, profitable and gets updates. I don't even need to mention WOW do I? All these titles are as old or older than FFXI and are among the top of profitability.

The wait and see approach honestly might be waiting too long, there will only be a short window where Square will bother to care one way or the other.

Evolve or die, simple as that.

[Rainehx]

The problem with this is that most of the players are happy with the system, the players that have subbed for 10+ years like and enjoy the game as is.
These players have sustained the game thought the bad times, so to make the jump to a f2p system where people can buy progress is going to upset a lot of people, they will
likely lose that part of the player base, while yes attracting those more akin to the f2p system.

Id really hope SE would rather a consistent income and security from subs they know will come as in times past. rather than a bunch of people who will come
along sink a little money in it on month one and either leave with no real investment to stay or possibly not buying anything again.

But who knows, its like Stompa said, this is a classic game, people do enjoy it as is as many did when the updates had stoped previously
But SE foolishly catered for those who demanded everything easy and on a plate, which drove away a lot of people, and now that the updates are stopping
all those who demanded everything was given to them will leave, they cant have their new easy to obtain shinny s every month.

So I really do hope SE learned and wont add f2p and screw over their current player base, because imo it will die even faster if they do.

[Castanica]

The problem with this is that most of the players are happy with the system, the players that have subbed for 10+ years like and enjoy the game as is.
These players have sustained the game thought the bad times, so to make the jump to a f2p system where people can buy progress is going to upset a lot of people, they will
likely lose that part of the player base, while yes attracting those more akin to the f2p system.

Id really hope SE would rather a consistent income and security from subs they know will come as in times past. rather than a bunch of people who will come
along sink a little money in it on month one and either leave with no real investment to stay or possibly not buying anything again.

But who knows, its like Stompa said, this is a classic game, people do enjoy it as is as many did when the updates had stoped previously
But SE foolishly catered for those who demanded everything easy and on a plate, which drove away a lot of people, and now that the updates are stopping
all those who demanded everything was given to them will leave, they cant have their new easy to obtain shinny s every month.

So I really do hope SE learned and wont add f2p and screw over their current player base, because imo it will die even faster if they do.

The current player numbers aren't good enough, there aren't enough of them. That's why they are abandoning the game right?

If the players that stick around want a rapid decline after November followed by a swift death you will get your wish in 2016, Square have shown they only care about profits.

People that actually don't want to see the game die and be gone forever will hopefully have a more sensible view when they see the player numbers on November the 2nd.

[Ageofwar]

from what I read in an interview (can't remember what interview to quote it) the issue isn't quite cut and dry as simply changing FFXI to F2P
the development tools that SE use to create content is unsupported (Sony PS2???) and i'm guessing will soon pull extended support for them (which i'm guessing is November).

Only way around this would be to do a ground up rebuild of FFXI which due to the decreasing playbase is pointless (yes I know SE have done this with FFXIV -> FFXIV:ARR) and would cost too much for the returns they will get.

SE will more likely shut down the servers when the time comes rather that make FFXI F2P

[Castanica]

from what I read in an interview (can't remember what interview to quote it) the issue isn't quite cut and dry as simply changing FFXI to F2P
the development tools that SE use to create content is unsupported (Sony PS2???) and i'm guessing will soon pull extended support for them (which i'm guessing is November).

Only way around this would be to do a ground up rebuild of FFXI which due to the decreasing playbase is pointless (yes I know SE have done this with FFXIV -> FFXIV:ARR) and would cost too much for the returns they will get.

SE will more likely shut down the servers when the time comes rather that make FFXI F2P

Well I think those of us that have played this game for a long while know that Square like to use easy excuses, ps2 limitations! So I wouldn't put too much weight behind that. If what they said was true they would be unable to do anything at all after November, which is not the case since they said they would still do balance changes etc.

[Ageofwar]

Well I think those of us that have played this game for a long while know that Square like to use easy excuses, ps2 limitations! So I wouldn't put too much weight behind that. If what they said was true they would be unable to do anything at all after November, which is not the case since they said they would still do balance changes etc.

I didn't say PS2 limitation, i said that the development tools are unsupported which would mean they will have a hard time generating new content

[Sapphire]

Well I think those of us that have played this game for a long while know that Square like to use easy excuses, ps2 limitations! So I wouldn't put too much weight behind that. If what they said was true they would be unable to do anything at all after November, which is not the case since they said they would still do balance changes etc.

My one point is going to be, there is a GIANT difference between "limited by what the PS2 can do" and "there are almost no PS2 dev kits left in the world, we bought as many as we can and when they die, they can't get repaired."

Sony is being amazingly NICE and keeping the DNS server they need up. the FFXI team is the only people who access it. And Sony has agreed to keep it up until FFXI actually goes away, even with PS2 support being pulled. Which is why they can still do tweeks after November. But those dev kits are basically ticking bombs. :P

[Castanica]

My one point is going to be, there is a GIANT difference between "limited by what the PS2 can do" and "there are almost no PS2 dev kits left in the world, we bought as many as we can and when they die, they can't get repaired."

Sony is being amazingly NICE and keeping the DNS server they need up. the FFXI team is the only people who access it. And Sony has agreed to keep it up until FFXI actually goes away, even with PS2 support being pulled. Which is why they can still do tweeks after November. But those dev kits are basically ticking bombs. :P

Well it's all down to if you buy that or not, I personally don't.

[Isal]

It shows the races and characters that will be used on the android game in the logo.

The only logos I see there are for the Vana'diel Project, which encompasses Rhapsodies, the mobile client, and Grandmasters... They're the same character sprites you see in the banner on the top of these forums, hardly an indicator of anything related to the mobile client...

[Alhanelem]

I'm thinking SE believes at this point that they won't likely make more money with an F2P option. The fact that the only way they feel they can go that route is by going mobile speaks volumes towards this.

[Sapphire]

Well it's all down to if you buy that or not, I personally don't.

Wow. Just wow.

[Zumi]

Pretty sure the mobile version will be F2P with microtransactions because one of the biggest F2P mmo companies is running it.

[Isal]

While possible, I'm not sure I see the point, since they have all the opportunity to do that with Grand Masters, not sure why they'd put the money into 2 separate mobile games with the same formula.

[Alhanelem]

While possible, I'm not sure I see the point, since they have all the opportunity to do that with Grand Masters, not sure why they'd put the money into 2 separate mobile games with the same formula.
grandmasters is nothing like the mobile FFXI, it's an entirely different game of its own that simply features characters, imagery, etc from FFXI.

[Isal]

grandmasters is nothing like the mobile FFXI, it's an entirely different game of its own that simply features characters, imagery, etc from FFXI.

I just meant in terms of f2p/microtransactions. Between the Project Vana'diel games and Record Keeper, just seems like they'd be flooding the mobile market a bit. But if the mobile client is F2P with microtransactions, so be it.

[bungiefanNA]

Don't forget that they have Pictologica (a picross-based game using similar systems to Record Keeper), with puzzle-based combat, and in Japan they also have Airborne Brigade still online (last I checked anyway, NA version was shut down last year).

[Castanica]

I really can't see FFXI lasting into 2017 without changing business model, too many crushing blows coming.

It's just so sad to think that Vanadiel will disappear forever and we will never be able to play the game and explore the world again, in such a short amount of time.

All the other classic mmo titles evolved and still exist.

[Castanica]

Recently read an interview with Matsui about free to play, hilariously they wanted to do it but they didn't want to spend money.


Matsui: Well one thing we were thinking was to turn the current FFXI into a free-to-play game by adding mechanisms where there are additional fees for in-game items that can be purchased for real money. We also thought about this when we were considering how to increase revenue without bringing in new customers. However, by going in that direction, we might have had more refurbishment costs involved, so we didn't want to do that.
Saito: Also just talking about possibilities, we had a number of discussions about whether we should try porting to Playstation Vita.
Matsui: When we thought about the things that would need to be fixed or remedied to get that to work and tried to come up with the costs, the estimates were pretty enormous. It wasn't very realistic.

[Dragomair]

If the game doesn't receive income, Square enix will stop hosting it. It costs a lot of money to just keep a game online, nevermind support registrations/character creations/fix bugs etc.

[Castanica]

If the game doesn't receive income, Square enix will stop hosting it. It costs a lot of money to just keep a game online, nevermind support registrations/character creations/fix bugs etc.

What does this have to do with the topic? free to play makes way more money than p2p.

Also yes, the mobile version is being run by Nexon. For anyone that knows Nexon, you know how that game is going to be.

[Isal]

[...] Also yes, the mobile version is being run by Nexon. For anyone that knows Nexon, you know how that game is going to be.

I find it interesting that you talk about how people need to get their heads around F2P because people associate it with bad F2P games, meanwhile you're convinced to the level of clairvoyance as to how Nexon's client for a game made by someone else is going to turn out, presumably due to associating Nexon with bad games (many of which are F2P, oddly enough).

[Alhanelem]

I find it interesting that you talk about how people need to get their heads around F2P because people associate it with bad F2P games, meanwhile you're convinced to the level of clairvoyance as to how Nexon's client for a game made by someone else is going to turn out, presumably due to associating Nexon with bad games (many of which are F2P, oddly enough).
The games that nexon services aren't necessarily all bad, it's more the fact that they're usually pretty heavily pay-to-win in their F2P model. Some of the games are actually not bad at all if you can look past the P2W.

[Isal]

The games that nexon services aren't necessarily all bad, it's more the fact that they're usually pretty heavily pay-to-win in their F2P model. Some of the games are actually not bad at all if you can look past the P2W.

I can understand that, but that doesn't guarantee that Final Fantasy XI Mobile will go the same way. Square Enix has already proven that they take their Final Fantasy IP very seriously (considering the massive overhaul of Final Fantasy XIV), they're partnering with Nexon for the mobile client, but that doesn't necessarily mean Nexon's being given full autonomous control over every last aspect of the game. If SE was able to state this early on that the mobile client will at least begin with the first one or two expansions at launch, it suggests they didn't simply hand the Final Fantasy XI rights over to Nexon and say "Do whatever you want".

It just seems contradictory to ask people to overlook the bad F2P games out there in favor of FFXI going F2P, while damning the mobile client simply because Nexon's the one developing it, despite Nexon never even handling an IP as major as Final Fantasy in the past. The closest I've seen is the handling of "Counter-Strike Online" and "Eve-Online" in regions outside of North America.

[Alhanelem]

I can understand that, but that doesn't guarantee that Final Fantasy XI Mobile will go the same way. Square Enix has already proven that they take their Final Fantasy IP very seriously (considering the massive overhaul of Final Fantasy XIV), they're partnering with Nexon for the mobile client, but that doesn't necessarily mean Nexon's being given full autonomous control over every last aspect of the game. If SE was able to state this early on that the mobile client will at least begin with the first one or two expansions at launch, it suggests they didn't simply hand the Final Fantasy XI rights over to Nexon and say "Do whatever you want".

It just seems contradictory to ask people to overlook the bad F2P games out there in favor of FFXI going F2P, while damning the mobile client simply because Nexon's the one developing it, despite Nexon never even handling an IP as major as Final Fantasy in the past. The closest I've seen is the handling of "Counter-Strike Online" and "Eve-Online" in regions outside of North America.

It's quite possible that SE's agreement with Nexon allows them to do certain things with the game and doesnt' allow other things, and that we don't have anything to worry about. I don't have a high end mobile phone so theres no chance I'll be playing this, but I don't think people should instantly write it off just because Nexon is involved, as you said.

[Isal]

It's quite possible that SE's agreement with Nexon allows them to do certain things with the game and doesnt' allow other things, and that we don't have anything to worry about. I don't have a high end mobile phone so theres no chance I'll be playing this, but I don't think people should instantly write it off just because Nexon is involved, as you said.

I think some just wanna throw the doom and gloom party too soon. I can understand the anxiety for those who've put far more time into the game than I have.

Personally, my mobile phone is a Lumia 635 Windows Phone... Which means it's not going to get FFXI Mobile. However, I do have a galaxy tab pro on the Android platform, so I am at the very least morbidly curious how FFXI Mobile will turn out.

Edit: As for the "high end", I doubt it'll need to be a high end. MMORPGs are typically developed for as broad a range of hardware specs as possible to increase the potential playerbase. My Galaxy Tab Pro was a $400 tablet back when it launched, but a year or so later it had already dropped to $200, possibly less today. I'm not saying one should go out and get a tablet just for this game, but if you find yourself needing one for different tasks, FFXI Mobile would only be a bonus, assuming it doesn't fail miserably.

[Alhanelem]

Sadly I do have a tablet but it's a Windows 8.1 tablet (I wanted something that could run most of the same software my PC could run, and I have FFXI and FFXIV installed on it :p) and I thought about pairing it up with a phone similar to the one you mentioned. It's a shame Windows Phone isn't getting the same kind of app support as the others, but it has some nice features.

I suppose I'm probably grossly underestimating typical smartphone hardware.

[Allestra]

The problem with this is that most of the players are happy with the system, the players that have subbed for 10+ years like and enjoy the game as is.
These players have sustained the game thought the bad times, so to make the jump to a f2p system where people can buy progress is going to upset a lot of people, they will
likely lose that part of the player base, while yes attracting those more akin to the f2p system.

Id really hope SE would rather a consistent income and security from subs they know will come as in times past. rather than a bunch of people who will come
along sink a little money in it on month one and either leave with no real investment to stay or possibly not buying anything again.

But who knows, its like Stompa said, this is a classic game, people do enjoy it as is as many did when the updates had stoped previously
But SE foolishly catered for those who demanded everything easy and on a plate, which drove away a lot of people, and now that the updates are stopping
all those who demanded everything was given to them will leave, they cant have their new easy to obtain shinny s every month.

So I really do hope SE learned and wont add f2p and screw over their current player base, because imo it will die even faster if they do.

ERRR...people were leaving ffxi many mayyyyy years ago, "catering" had absolutely nothing to do with
much of the player loss, however, no communiction from SE, and a stagnant ,inflexible attitude certainly did!

All the things they have changed especially the QoL changes should have been implemented
yearssssss ago before so many had left.

As for ftp?...I too have played and stayed subbed continually for over the 10yr mark to ffxi.
I see nothing wrong with any ftp games that I also play, nothing!

BUT those ftp games still evolve, IF ffxi has no new content past Nov (and tbh Im not sure if thats true
or not), but if there is nothing new after, then even ftp doesnt make any sense to me.

A reduction in fees , yes, but ftp would have to offer something worth buying to make any money initially and continually.
I just cant see that happening in fxi.

Even if we could buy all the best gear and all the best weapons...kk...then what? lol
Stand around in jeuno looking good....or go kill everything in the game over and over and over for....what exactly?
The "shelf life" of any game that is again soon to be stagnant is short if theres nothing to look forward to!!

I do think a sub reduction is realistic and fair.

As much as I like ftp games (as well as sub based games), ffxi just has nothing to offer if the
game itself has no more content added in which to enjoy the purchases.

At any rate its up to SE, the sub fees for me arent an issue really but once I have achieved my personal goals thenit will be time to say goodbye. FFXI has been a wonderful game over the years, enjoy it more now then before tbh. :)

But if nothing is ever added (and i dont mean the occasional spell change, thats not enough)then
the end is just...reality... ftp/sub/ wont save it.

[Runespider]

Pretty sure the mobile version will be F2P with microtransactions because one of the biggest F2P mmo companies is running it.


ERRR...people were leaving ffxi many mayyyyy years ago, "catering" had absolutely nothing to do with
much of the player loss, however, no communiction from SE, and a stagnant ,inflexible attitude certainly did!

All the things they have changed especially the QoL changes should have been implemented
yearssssss ago before so many had left.

As for ftp?...I too have played and stayed subbed continually for over the 10yr mark to ffxi.
I see nothing wrong with any ftp games that I also play, nothing!

BUT those ftp games still evolve, IF ffxi has no new content past Nov (and tbh Im not sure if thats true
or not), but if there is nothing new after, then even ftp doesnt make any sense to me.

A reduction in fees , yes, but ftp would have to offer something worth buying to make any money initially and continually.
I just cant see that happening in fxi.

Even if we could buy all the best gear and all the best weapons...kk...then what? lol
Stand around in jeuno looking good....or go kill everything in the game over and over and over for....what exactly?
The "shelf life" of any game that is again soon to be stagnant is short if theres nothing to look forward to!!

I do think a sub reduction is realistic and fair.

As much as I like ftp games (as well as sub based games), ffxi just has nothing to offer if the
game itself has no more content added in which to enjoy the purchases.

At any rate its up to SE, the sub fees for me arent an issue really but once I have achieved my personal goals thenit will be time to say goodbye. FFXI has been a wonderful game over the years, enjoy it more now then before tbh. :)

But if nothing is ever added (and i dont mean the occasional spell change, thats not enough)then
the end is just...reality... ftp/sub/ wont save it.

I agree, however I think the point of a free/hybrid/cheaper sub is to make the game more financially viable so that Square can start adding content again. They are stopping updates because they don't see it as making enough money as they warrant worthwhile.

[bungiefanNA]

They are stopping updates because the development hardware is dying, and to do a long full expansion risks the equipment failing before they finish. Best to wrap up things while you have the capability than to be in the middle of something and lose the capability, leaving an incomplete storyline forever after.

[Castanica]

Pretty sure the mobile version will be F2P with microtransactions because one of the biggest F2P mmo companies is running it.


They are stopping updates because the development hardware is dying, and to do a long full expansion risks the equipment failing before they finish. Best to wrap up things while you have the capability than to be in the middle of something and lose the capability, leaving an incomplete storyline forever after.

I think this is a reason they gave, I don't think it's the truthful one.

We are talking about a company that used ps2 limitations for the entire life of the game, and that went back on many of the things it said were impossible when it suited them.

The thing I find odd with players is, why would anyone be against f2p at all? Makes no sense, you get more players, the company makes more money, the company makes pretty outfits you might want to buy. Is it a selfish outlook in that you only want to pay a minimum amount and no more for anything?

I mean if it's like ffxiv where you actually have a choice then fine I can understand it but since ffxi is not getting anymore worthwhile updates after november I really don't see why anyone would be against it.

[Bluestar2kx]

Whether you think that's the reason or not, I think it's pretty valid. Everything dies eventually, even the Ps2, the old systems are starting to die off as it is, so if you got a working one, keep it in pristine condition.

It's no longer produced, or repaired by Sony (likely because the cost was sooo high for outdated tech to be made, costs start to go back up after a point in something's age), so when they die, their dead, and with Sony shutting down the dev networks (as it sounds like they used them) it's not going to be possible to make stuff, and so, FFXI's development beyond things based on stuff already in the game has to end. To remake the game would be astronomical in cost, might as well make FFXI-2, though we don't know they aren't, but I'm still hoping for FFXI server kits, so we can run our own with our friends, and get dungeon master controls ^^ That's all the "offline" we need.

We're against F2P, because F2P is a terrible model for customers and company, and it would have no appreciable outcome on FFXI's future in the ways it needs.
Why do you think things in those stores cost so bloody much? It's because they know half or more won't pay a thing for the game, and right now, paying customers is what FFXI needs, and it won't get that either way you slice it.

So basically you have a bunch of freeloaders, on top of that, F2P draws the worst crowds of people, something FFXI has been able to keep away for 13 years, it's not something most of the veteran players want to deal with in FFXI's golden years, and it's not something that would benefit the game.

It's not selfish, it's realistic, because we know what will happen.
And it's not selfish to wish to keep paying for a game you love. It doesn't matter if it excludes others, because their the selfish ones who don't wish to pay and be able to play, they have a choice, but they want a free ride, and there's plenty of other MMO's that offer that path. I just got an email not too long ago that Blade and Soul is still being worked on and may release this year, there's another F2P game right there, if not at launch, it likely will shortly after given NCsofts reputation.

So if gamers are just too cheap to pay FFXI's fairly reasonable sum to play such an amazing title that can hold you for a hundred times longer then most AAA titles released now for 60$, then, imo, they aren't worth playing with, and they aren't the group of people FFXI needs.

People have shown again with FFXIV, that they will pay if its a good game even these days.
So there you go. All the reason you need is right there.

Personally, I'm happy paying for my access to FFXI. And I'll keep doing that until the day SE refuses that money, which will likely be when FFXI is gone forever, and I'm ok with that.... just not the end of ffxi ;; *cries* But thankfully, I think we still have some years left before that's a threat.

[Stompa]

Whether you think that's the reason or not, I think it's pretty valid. Everything dies eventually, even the Ps2, the old systems are starting to die off as it is, so if you got a working one, keep it in pristine condition.

It's no longer produced, or repaired by Sony (likely because the cost was sooo high for outdated tech to be made, costs start to go back up after a point in something's age), so when they die, their dead, and with Sony shutting down the dev networks (as it sounds like they used them) it's not going to be possible to make stuff, and so, FFXI's development beyond things based on stuff already in the game has to end. To remake the game would be astronomical in cost, might as well make FFXI-2, though we don't know they aren't, but I'm still hoping for FFXI server kits, so we can run our own with our friends, and get dungeon master controls ^^ That's all the "offline" we need.

We're against F2P, because F2P is a terrible model for customers and company, and it would have no appreciable outcome on FFXI's future in the ways it needs.
Why do you think things in those stores cost so bloody much? It's because they know half or more won't pay a thing for the game, and right now, paying customers is what FFXI needs, and it won't get that either way you slice it.

So basically you have a bunch of freeloaders, on top of that, F2P draws the worst crowds of people, something FFXI has been able to keep away for 13 years, it's not something most of the veteran players want to deal with in FFXI's golden years, and it's not something that would benefit the game.

It's not selfish, it's realistic, because we know what will happen.
And it's not selfish to wish to keep paying for a game you love. It doesn't matter if it excludes others, because their the selfish ones who don't wish to pay and be able to play, they have a choice, but they want a free ride, and there's plenty of other MMO's that offer that path. I just got an email not too long ago that Blade and Soul is still being worked on and may release this year, there's another F2P game right there, if not at launch, it likely will shortly after given NCsofts reputation.

So if gamers are just too cheap to pay FFXI's fairly reasonable sum to play such an amazing title that can hold you for a hundred times longer then most AAA titles released now for 60$, then, imo, they aren't worth playing with, and they aren't the group of people FFXI needs.

People have shown again with FFXIV, that they will pay if its a good game even these days.
So there you go. All the reason you need is right there.

Personally, I'm happy paying for my access to FFXI. And I'll keep doing that until the day SE refuses that money, which will likely be when FFXI is gone forever, and I'm ok with that.... just not the end of ffxi ;; *cries* But thankfully, I think we still have some years left before that's a threat.

Great analysis of the situation on the ground, and probably the best post I've read on this forum ever.

You are so right about the potential revenue benefits of Ftp in this game being scant and transient, the real money input for this type of niche fan game comes from loyal longtime subscribers who actually enjoy playing the game for the game itself, and not just people going on a brief shopping spree and then drifting away a short time later. Its like the difference between having a constant tapwater supply, or going to the shop for the occasional bottle of water. Even if the tapwater slows to a trickle, it is still a more efficient system than constantly going to buy new bottles of water at the shop.

[Castanica]

Whether you think that's the reason or not, I think it's pretty valid. Everything dies eventually, even the Ps2, the old systems are starting to die off as it is, so if you got a working one, keep it in pristine condition.

It's no longer produced, or repaired by Sony (likely because the cost was sooo high for outdated tech to be made, costs start to go back up after a point in something's age), so when they die, their dead, and with Sony shutting down the dev networks (as it sounds like they used them) it's not going to be possible to make stuff, and so, FFXI's development beyond things based on stuff already in the game has to end. To remake the game would be astronomical in cost, might as well make FFXI-2, though we don't know they aren't, but I'm still hoping for FFXI server kits, so we can run our own with our friends, and get dungeon master controls ^^ That's all the "offline" we need.

We're against F2P, because F2P is a terrible model for customers and company, and it would have no appreciable outcome on FFXI's future in the ways it needs.
Why do you think things in those stores cost so bloody much? It's because they know half or more won't pay a thing for the game, and right now, paying customers is what FFXI needs, and it won't get that either way you slice it.

So basically you have a bunch of freeloaders, on top of that, F2P draws the worst crowds of people, something FFXI has been able to keep away for 13 years, it's not something most of the veteran players want to deal with in FFXI's golden years, and it's not something that would benefit the game.

It's not selfish, it's realistic, because we know what will happen.
And it's not selfish to wish to keep paying for a game you love. It doesn't matter if it excludes others, because their the selfish ones who don't wish to pay and be able to play, they have a choice, but they want a free ride, and there's plenty of other MMO's that offer that path. I just got an email not too long ago that Blade and Soul is still being worked on and may release this year, there's another F2P game right there, if not at launch, it likely will shortly after given NCsofts reputation.

So if gamers are just too cheap to pay FFXI's fairly reasonable sum to play such an amazing title that can hold you for a hundred times longer then most AAA titles released now for 60$, then, imo, they aren't worth playing with, and they aren't the group of people FFXI needs.

People have shown again with FFXIV, that they will pay if its a good game even these days.
So there you go. All the reason you need is right there.

Personally, I'm happy paying for my access to FFXI. And I'll keep doing that until the day SE refuses that money, which will likely be when FFXI is gone forever, and I'm ok with that.... just not the end of ffxi ;; *cries* But thankfully, I think we still have some years left before that's a threat.

So you would rather see a game die than go f2p? I don't think you really play it very much if you think that, there is nothing like ffxi that exists. Once FFXI closes this kind of mmo will be gone for good, FFXIV is a pure wow copy so swapping to that isn't an option for most of us. FFXI and FFXIV are like chalk and cheese, nothing alike.

Talking of FFXIV, FFXIV proves that a pure p2p cannot function. FFXIV has a very big cash shop, you can't even have a good wedding on FFXIV without spending $40.

As I mentioned before, f2p isn't a terrible business model at all, there are many great f2p models out there. The deal with f2p is that you pay for items instead of pay to access the game. You still pay money.

The most terrible thing you said was that you think you're better than "free loaders" I have news for you, you aren't any better than anyone else. F2p players aren't the great unclean, they are just the same as the rest of us. do you walk around during free access fortnights turning your nose up at people that may not be subbed?

At the end of the day your only real argument against f2p is that you don't want people you see as beneath you playing. This appears a common reason for most people who dislike f2p, which is pretty shocking.

Just to prove that this master race idea you seen to have is incorrect, the worst community I have so far experienced has been on FFXIV. I played Tera, SWTOR, STO and ESO and all of them had/have better communities. None of them were as good as ffxi, that however had nothing to do with the sub.

[vienne]

6 pages of the same old, yet your idea only has 1 like....yet you continue to insult the people who give valid arguments.
Let me ask this: if ffxi went f2p with a cashshop, what would that shop be selling? Look at it from the point of view of both sides.
cosmetics? i can see this work for both new and older players, people have been asking for paid name/race/appearance changes for a long time.
Gear? well...as a loyal subscriber i have a big problem with this, gear doesnt come falling down the sky (also what would this do to the auction house/market)
currency? thats a big nono, then anyone can make a relic/mythic with no effort (and yes thats the coredesign of ffxi, effort, the grind. take that out of the game and whats left?
furniture/costumes? this could work for both sides but who wants to pay rl money for this?
progress? again not acceptable for the paying sub, and unneccesary since most requirements are neglectable as it is, its not that hard anymore for newer players.
gil? Well tbh i could see an EVE like approach work, with having the ability to pay for game time with game currency and it actually being possible to do so if you know what you're doing.

I'll also point out the age of ffxi, its 13 years old, i doubt its that simple to change this dinosaur into f2p. And secondly Camate and Grukumah (or w/e his name is sorry!) answered a whole bunch of forum questions earlier this week, yet they once more ignored every f2p~ish topic.
And last but not least. I'm very much ok for paying a sub for a game that keeps me entertained and which makes sure i dont have the need to buy a new game every month, in that way a sub based game is cheap.

[Bluestar2kx]

So you would rather see a game die than go f2p? I don't think you really play it very much if you think that, there is nothing like ffxi that exists. Once FFXI closes this kind of mmo will be gone for good, FFXIV is a pure wow copy so swapping to that isn't an option for most of us. FFXI and FFXIV are like chalk and cheese, nothing alike.

Talking of FFXIV, FFXIV proves that a pure p2p cannot function. FFXIV has a very big cash shop, you can't even have a good wedding on FFXIV without spending $40.

As I mentioned before, f2p isn't a terrible business model at all, there are many great f2p models out there. The deal with f2p is that you pay for items instead of pay to access the game. You still pay money.

The most terrible thing you said was that you think you're better than "free loaders" I have news for you, you aren't any better than anyone else. F2p players aren't the great unclean, they are just the same as the rest of us. do you walk around during free access fortnights turning your nose up at people that may not be subbed?

At the end of the day your only real argument against f2p is that you don't want people you see as beneath you playing. This appears a common reason for most people who dislike f2p, which is pretty shocking.

Just to prove that this master race idea you seen to have is incorrect, the worst community I have so far experienced has been on FFXIV. I played Tera, SWTOR, STO and ESO and all of them had/have better communities. None of them were as good as ffxi, that however had nothing to do with the sub.

The game's official servers are going to die someday, even the loyal fanbase won't keep this from happening at some point. This is inevitable, as it is with all things. Nothing lasts forever.
It's not a truth anybody, or me, likes to face, but we know this for fact.

But going F2P will kill it long before SE would cut the servers as things are going now.
What you don't seem to understand is F2P models are exactly as i said, players play free yes you can login without a sub, however, maybe a 1/3rd to a 1/4th of those players will actually ever buy anything, and typically the people who do, are the loyal players much like those still paying for FFXI, they pay to make up for the bulk of people who don't, as I said, that's why those items in game stores like Aion, SWTOR, and such are a lot more expensive then they typically should be. It isn't just corporate greed, it's a matter of necessity.

Tell me, the game goes F2P, SE opens up a small cash for with items starting at 5$+, a 1/3rd of the server, mostly those playing right now, would pay anything, which is about 600 people on average, but the server gets flooded (we'll go with best case) and rockets up to the old days of 3-4k per server, but we only have 11 now instead of 24, and the dev team is cut to a 1/5th of what we had back then.... who's going to handle maintenance for such an influx of people with such a small team? How is SE going to keep them after november?

People have already said they refuse to pay after that date, so what's going to happen to SE's income? It stays right where it is now, worse case, it drops more as people leave.
So tell me again, how F2P is going to benefit FFXI?

It's not, and that is 90% of the reason why the people of this game are objecting to it, and I'd wager, a lot of why SE does too, because they realize that very truth: It will change nothing for the better, and it might cause worse problems for FFXI.

Just because something is common in the rest of the industry, mostly full of failing MMO's (why did they all go F2P after all?), doesn't mean it's a great method. Day 1 DLC is exceptionally common, but everyone hates it, does that make it cool just because the main houses do it?

I play FFXI daily hun, but thanks for judging.
I have over 600 days accumulated between my characters (I've had 6 independant characters since nov 3rd 2003), I've taken over 30,000 photos in FFXI, and run two accounts concurrently that pay SE over 30$, even my partner has been tempted to open a 2nd of her own. I cried my eyes out so hard when I read the news of FFXI shutting down that my partner thought my grandmother died and rushed to call me between breaks after I left a sobbing message she couldn't understand. FFXI means more to me then what half the players here probably feel (just estimating, no offence intended).

I know FFXI pretty well, from back then, to today it means a lot to me, I've done most things in the game at least once, though i frequent older content more then the newer stuff. I also know that it's one of the last titles like it. When it gone, when EQ is gone, it's the end of an era essentially, an era we'll likely never see again. It's the same reason classics from the NES era and even older arcade titles are STILL loved and played, esp by older audiences. And for me, it will likely mean the end of MMO's for me because of that. Though some Korean MMO's aren't bad, but still not the same. though I'd be willing to pay a LOT to get access to a FFXI server kit if SE sold one.

But I know what F2P would do to it. I've seen it happen in several other games. Most notably Aion which I played for 3 years AS it went F2P. (difference being, Aion did it young, and was able to support such a shop natively because of it's design... or lack of. Costs a ton though, server counts did go up for a time, but are still dwindling long after)

I'd rather pay my sub, and get updates with wonderful content and stories, and support the game properly and completely and ensure it's survival for as long as possible, then pay 3-5x as much to get those same items from a cash shop with meager quests and updates, as I watch FFXI burn to the ground from a mass of freeloaders who care nothing for it and abandon it anyway in 5 months, killing the game. It would be dead faster then if Fenrir ate Karaha-Baruha at his summoning.

The outcome, is the same, but one, kills it sooner then it should.
(I think I've already explained quite well which one that is)

But yes I know FFXIV is not the title most of us would go to.
It's not one i favored either. It's beautiful, but that's as far as it gets. They killed what could have been from 1.0, and replaced it with a WoW mechanics copy. A fairly good copy, but still.

I guess I didn't play it enough, I didn't know FFXIV had much of a cash shop really. I knew you could buy server transfers and a look change potion but beyond that, I didn't know it had anything else to sell. But P2P does function just fine, that FFXI still lives, and XIV is still a sub only title, speaks for itself when other titles ages older then XI went F2P (though most have a payment option). Whether XIV will go F2P in the future I don't know. I doubt it. They burned money making XIV, and again, remaking XIV. The cash shop is likely just a supplement to what FFXI fans demand that they can't give us, and to help offset the absurdly high expenses XIV incurred. Hell, they gave people free play time for almost a year, that takes money to run the staff and servers, so they essentially bleed more, it makes sense they'd attempt to recoup costs.

F2P isn't terrible if you're too broke to pay for it originally. Otherwise, I don't know a single F2P model that's been good for consumers AND the game. There's a difference there. But I've already explained F2P models well enough.

Maybe I am biased against those players and have a bad attitude towards them, but I've seen enough to know what F2P does and doesn't do and typically that group, has a lot filthier mouths then most of the rest of us, and they don't respect people. However, I treat players with respect until it's shown they don't deserve it. But maybe I do need to change my opinion slightly. I'll not judge the attitudes of freeloaders in the future until they show theirs, but you can't honestly say they aren't a freeloader, esp against those still willing to pay for access rights, which seems to be at least 3/4th's of the current community. 14$ average by a player every month is a lot more solid income then maybe 15$ from a few items on a shop by a couple of people, that half the server might buy on a given month.

As Stompa said, a small stream of income is still income, and it beats a small gush here and there with nothing inbetween because that stream adds up quickly.
(trust me they do >< We had a steady stream leak from a sink in my old home we rented, it added up to a gallon every 30 mins, the owner refused to fix it, we left with a 300$ water bill, when it normally barely exceeded 35$)

But it does nothing good for the game's community. Tell me one F2P mmo with a great community? Sure, they maybe nice, sometimes, but are they close? Are they helpful? FFXI had that in it's heyday, but I've not played an MMO with that since. Let's not even get into the crap I've seen in shout channels in Aion, and STO, the attitudes can be vile, which i've very rarely seen in FFXI. Most of the players enticed by F2P are the CoD type crowd, and most of them aren't pleasant people, nor are they people who work well with others, there's a reason people talk upon XBL's community, and that is why, that is the people we'd get because they're the only players left who've not played FFXI.

The real problem is, MMO's are dying as a whole.
Copies of too easy games, poor quality, there's a host of problems. Hell you could write a lot of that for the AAA industry.
But I could write a document on this, but I don't have the desire to rewrite it again, I think I wrote it in the last classic server request thread, you can find it there in some of the later pages I think it was.

My reasons for disliking F2P have actually little to do with the poor attitude of players it would likely entice to come for a short time, that is just a known side effect. The real problem is, F2P would give nothing to FFXI, but it would sure take a lot of things away.

Whether you accept this or not changes little of it being fact.
A fact most of the playerbase knows, and a fact SE knows. That's the real argument, that's why it's not happening and that's why we're against it. It would accomplish nothing in the end, and would kill FFXI by next year for sure.

Is that what you really want?
You claim I must not play or want FFXI to keep going, but you keep advocating strongly for a method of play that you clearly don't understand the function of in such an old title like this, and one that would kill it a lot faster then anything I'm supporting.

[detlef]

So you would rather see a game die than go f2p?F2P sounds like a great deal for players but how exactly is it going to make more money for SE than paid subscriptions?

[Castanica]

quoted text

I don't get this thinking, sure it's going to die. You, I and everyone reading this is gonna die so what does that have to do with it? If you can do something to put it off you do it.

Square have given up on FFXI, now they are letting it die. The only thing that would change that is more money, f2p/hybrid has saved mass numbers of games (including everquest 1).

This is ofc just a discussion, I have since read that Square actually considered f2p for ffxi before deciding to end it instead. They didn't want to spend the money needed to create a delivery system and shop.

[Dreamin]

I don't get this thinking, sure it's going to die. You, I and everyone reading this is gonna die so what does that have to do with it? If you can do something to put it off you do it.

Square have given up on FFXI, now they are letting it die. The only thing that would change that is more money, f2p/hybrid has saved mass numbers of games (including everquest 1).

This is ofc just a discussion, I have since read that Square actually considered f2p for ffxi before deciding to end it instead. They didn't want to spend the money needed to create a delivery system and shop.

Seems you and every one of you guys out there that somehow thinks just by changing this game to F2P, SE will somehow pick up development once again. Maybe you didn't read it correctly, but they are claiming that they can no longer continue to develop this game because the primary core development platform is on the PS2 and SE can no longer acquire 'new dev kits' for PS2. The effort to port a 13 years old game from PS2 to say PC (or PS4/Xbox with the PC being probably the better choice) is probably not going to be justified by going the F2P model at all.

So stop this nonsense because even if this game gets to be F2P, it'll still be dying because there will be no MAJOR development done on this game. That is the reality that every one of you that doesn't seems to understands.

[Stompa]

Square have given up on FFXI, now they are letting it die.

For a game they've given up on and are letting die, they sure are putting a lot of love into the new content this year. Some of the CS in the part one RoV mini episodes, are some of the best CS I have seen in this game ever. The script-writing for NPC dialogues in those new CS are extremely well-written, better than anything I've read in recent Fighting-Fantasy genre novels. Even the scriptwriting for minor details like Trust battle-comments has clearly been written by people who love FFXI, not by people who have given up on it and are letting it die. RoV promises to be an awesome storyline, I am thrilled to my boots about seeing what happens in RoV, and reading more of the wonderful scriptwriting that goes into the beautiful CSs.

If they had given up on it and were letting it die, they wouldn't be putting all this effort into Trusts, or into new furnishings like the simply outstanding VanaClock etc. or into the final mission storyline. We have only seen the baby-steps RoV intro, but I believe this will be a storyline of soaring wonder, and lasting memories.

If they just gave up and ditched it they would say "we can't afford it, we had a good run guys, we are shutting down on <date>" but they haven't done that, they keep adding QOL and adding more immersive Rpg elements into Trusts and Moghouses etc. as well as the epic finale RoV.

And they did say the core game will still be available for as long as possible, as long as players are paying subs and the equipment works etc. They actually said [paraphrased] "we hope to keep Vanadiel online for a long time after updates cease, so that fans and new players alike can continue to enjoy it." They don't want to kill this game or let it die, they are just scaling-back by stopping updates/expansions next year. I see this withdrawing as similar to Bivalvia where the shell is closed defensively, the shell organism isn't being destroyed, it is just closing into a defensive stance for survival.

[Bluestar2kx]

I don't get this thinking, sure it's going to die. You, I and everyone reading this is gonna die so what does that have to do with it? If you can do something to put it off you do it.

Square have given up on FFXI, now they are letting it die. The only thing that would change that is more money, f2p/hybrid has saved mass numbers of games (including everquest 1).

This is ofc just a discussion, I have since read that Square actually considered f2p for ffxi before deciding to end it instead. They didn't want to spend the money needed to create a delivery system and shop.

It was more a matter of statement then an obsession with the end.
But it is not something we can "put off". Primary development is ending. Unless SE gets a fund from someone in the amount of like, 35-50m$ to write the core of the game into a PC dev kit to keep it going that way, this won't change. And this has large ramifications to the game's long term future.

SE hasn't "given up" on FFXI. But they know, as most of us do, there's no income to be gained from FFXI beyond what they're getting now. Things might fluctuate slightly as players come and go for updates, or RoV, but that's it and it won't be by any significant amount. A f2P shop is not going to do anything, if anything, it would reduce income because (take notes this time please as you keep ignoring it):

1: it would take a lot of dev time to even make a shop, and put items into it, this shop having new items would have a limited life span of 5 remaining months, this would also take away from content being designed and added to FFXI before november.
And 2: there isn't enough money in the cash shop design to fund FFXI, income would decrease over the sub rate because there's just not enough players left, F2P models require large amounts of players because only like a 1/4th will buy anything at any given time, so SE would lose more money, and FFXI would go offline sooner because there wouldn't be enough income. (And I wouldn't say F2P saves games. It just, slows their death.)

Even if SE did a mix of shop+sub, it would still give us problem number 1: Taking time away from FFXI's main development, and money being used to keep it going. Money that may not be able to be put back, and dev time that can't be recovered, plus, the shops development would die in 5 months, taking income with it, income that was drained from FFXI's funding pool that may not have been put back.

F2P has saved dozens of games because it brings in large numbers of players for a title just a few years old and a portion of them buy something, not a game that most people have played and gotten bored with and left. Further more, there's one extra problem: A lot of people refusing to play FFXI don't play not because it has a sub (tho that is part) but the main reason is it's dated graphics. So who would F2P entice to play that would generate enough revenue to get SE to fund porting the development platform to PC from the PS2?

f2P will not bring in tons of money for FFXI. That's part of why SE chose not to do it.
There's no money to be made in FFXI with a cash shop like that and removing subs, even with subs, there isn't going to be enough income to give us the time we need for FFXI to change SE's mind.