What's square going to do now?

[Ritsuka]

Pretty much wondering myself what Square is going to do now sense they want to stop support for ps2 and 360. I know some people loved this idea saying something "its only bring us down" but whats the point of doing that if they don't up the graphics anyway for PC and just let the game die? Square isn't going to make free to play they done already said that. They would rather see the game die first before it goes free to play. I wish Square would make this game in HD. I'd be willing to help set up a fund to raise money to help support if they want to play "it would take up to much money". I would give the cheeck personally to the President if i could.

What I would like to see is this, A remake of the game in HD, if they want to port to ps4 and or xbox would be up to them, I wouldn't be hard to port to ps4 sense its x86 anyway. Don't turn this game into WoW please! Let us keep our hard earned gear just up the graphics. Keep all the quests. And a new expansion with it the new launch maybe? Or add it later on. Well the quest thing i guess some of the ones that nobody does doesn't have to be ported I don't know. I would always like to see Battle chocobo's. And It would be really nice to see them add 3 new playable race's. The Kuuluu, the Zilert and Male mithra. You could also add more functions to to making new characters and let older players remake there person or give them the option to keep it older style.

And no I don't want to play 14 I beat it fast its boring before anybody says that ^_^

[bungiefanNA]

PS2 support relies on Sony keeping the DNAS servers working, and FFXI is the only game still using those servers. They explained why they aren't doing this in the Freshly Picked, development of an upgraded client would cost as much as just making a new game, like FFXIV. Their priority at this point is to cut expenses, not increase revenue.

[Michae]

They said they crunched the numbers and its just not worth the expense.

The game is in its death throws, there is really no point for a company to sink the amount of money needed to do this in a game that has such a tiny player base. If they had more players, sure, but the gamer mentality these days of "I WANT IT NOOOOOW" doesn't fit with games like xi. So even a reboot would have to make it more player friendly and the game wouldn't be the same one we know today anyway.

As sad as it is and as much as I would love to see a Vana'diel reborn, nothing can last forever, maybe its time to see what else is out there beyond the narrow scope of wow and xiv, if those don't suit you. But just be prepared for not finding anything that compares.

[Stompa]

It would have worked if they had starting writing a PC-only shiny version around 2009, which would have taken a huge amount of time and effort to finish, would probably be hitting the market round about now. With enough advertising and positive media reviews it would have sold in huge quantities, new players who like easy games / non-teamwork games etc. would have been thrilled with the shiny HD Trusts that talk and dance and twirl while they help you clear content easily etc. I believe it would have been a far greater success than 14 was.

But in terms of the here and now, it is probably too late to start years of rebuilding FFXI into a bells-and-whistles shiny PC version. This enormous project should have been started while FFXI was still drawing large amounts of subs, and perhaps instead of 13/14/etc.

I like the old basic graphics in FFXI, I think they're cute lol. Besides I'm too busy fighting mobs and tweaking gear combinations etc., to stand around admiring my character's realistic tinted eyelashes. In the very shiny games I always seem to do that, stand around going "oooh lookit det pwetty face" / "oooh lookit me jumpin around!" and so on, while at the same time not really feeling that I want to do the battle/mission/quest content because it usually feels like the devs only added it because they had to, not because they had a burning desire to make it an immersive content-based RPG experience.

FFXI is the opposite, the amount of love and inspiration that went into the original content/lore side of the game is staggering, and the graphics are still OK but less important to me than the playable world.

[bungiefanNA]

I'd say 2005-2006 would have been better to do that, when the global release with the EU client and the Xbox 360 were getting the game attention, and they still had a lot of the original dev team available.

[Draylo-]

I'd be willing to donate as well, but realistically they would never take donations being that its SE, a major corporation. That and we probably couldn't afford a remake of XI at all, probably costs millions.

[Ritsuka]

Nice to see you people all say the same lame thing. I said I would get donations! Kick starter does it all the time so its possible

[Stompa]

I'd say 2005-2006 would have been better to do that, when the global release with the EU client and the Xbox 360 were getting the game attention, and they still had a lot of the original dev team available.

I agree with that you are saying, I just picked 2009~ for the reason that after six years they knew that this game wasn't a "flash in the pan" and that a lot of people were still logging in, even just to do campaign battles and pixie weapons etc. lol.

In 2005 the game was still quite new and they couldn't be sure if so many people were just playing it because it was new. By 08~10 they must have seen that this was a popular long-term game which many players from all ages and walks of life were happy to spend most of their gaming time on. And therefor that it was a good business decision to revamp it into a deluxe modern PC game, for the existing players and the wider gaming community.

[Draylo-]

Isn't it pretty shameful for a major corporation to take kick starter funds? I can't recall any major ones doing something like that, but anyways I would be behind it for sure.

[Zarchery]

Nice to see you people all say the same lame thing. I said I would get donations! Kick starter does it all the time so its possible

This isn't some 25 year old making some crappy documentary on a shoestring budget. It's a major corporation designing a hugely complex game. If it's gonna crowdfund, it's going to need it from wealthy investors donating hundreds of thousands at a time, not a bunch of avearge Joes sending in Paypal donations for 25 to 100 bucks apiece.

[bungiefanNA]

I agree with that you are saying, I just picked 2009~ for the reason that after six years they knew that this game wasn't a "flash in the pan" and that a lot of people were still logging in, even just to do campaign battles and pixie weapons etc. lol.

In 2005 the game was still quite new and they couldn't be sure if so many people were just playing it because it was new. By 08~10 they must have seen that this was a popular long-term game which many players from all ages and walks of life were happy to spend most of their gaming time on. And therefor that it was a good business decision to revamp it into a deluxe modern PC game, for the existing players and the wider gaming community.

Remember, FFXI launched in 2002. If was 4 years old a month or so after Aht Urhgan released. After Aht Urhgan, they started churning development members out, because Promathia was the original end of the storyline they had written. At least moving the development tools to Windows then would have been feasible, because they still would have had enough people with knowledge to do it.

[Dragoy]

I would not want to lose the basic looks of FFXI. That is to say, I actually like the character looks better in XI than what they are in X|V (not to mention them emotes... ~shrugs~). As many others say, a remake would very likely be something very different, something like X|V.

The engine could of course be more efficient-like for the PC, and jumping would make things different, but really, it does look like it's hopeless at this point to throw money at a “new XI”. SqEX seems to have decided that it wont be worth it, and I'm actually a bit surprised, but very glad, that they are planning on keeping the Windows version up and running for a time. Many thanks for that!

Since SqEX is determined to cut the costs, perhaps if they were to sell the game, someone could write it anew, but that's probably not very likely to happen either. :\

Open source is an interesting idea, though possibly the least likely thing to ever happen considering the title and company in question. Even so, there is the gargantuan amount of work required to re-write things, which would need quite a few people really loving it to put their time into it.

Using a modern, already written game engine would work in that “only” thing required would be to create the world, quests, and everything else on top of it.

A clone of the game could be done, but because of licensing issues and crud, it would no doubt end up just not the same.


It's great to see people willing to fight for XI, but it may be in vain, since the target is not listening...

Blubb!

[Seillan]

*snip*I would not want to lose the basic looks of FFXI. That is to say, I actually like the character looks better in XI than what they are in X|V (not to mention them emotes... ~shrugs~).*snip*

I agree with this, especially about the models on XI versus XIV. I could never get into the "taru" they have in that game, and as someone who almost exclusively plays small races, that's a pretty big deal to me.

[Ritsuka]

This isn't some 25 year old making some crappy documentary on a shoestring budget. It's a major corporation designing a hugely complex game. If it's gonna crowdfund, it's going to need it from wealthy investors donating hundreds of thousands at a time, not a bunch of avearge Joes sending in Paypal donations for 25 to 100 bucks apiece.

Yes and there was a guy who was a major devoloper who started a kick starter game. If its what people want than there is no shame in doing it.

[Ritsuka]

I would not want to lose the basic looks of FFXI. That is to say, I actually like the character looks better in XI than what they are in X|V (not to mention them emotes... ~shrugs~). As many others say, a remake would very likely be something very different, something like X|V.

The engine could of course be more efficient-like for the PC, and jumping would make things different, but really, it does look like it's hopeless at this point to throw money at a “new XI”. SqEX seems to have decided that it wont be worth it, and I'm actually a bit surprised, but very glad, that they are planning on keeping the Windows version up and running for a time. Many thanks for that!

Since SqEX is determined to cut the costs, perhaps if they were to sell the game, someone could write it anew, but that's probably not very likely to happen either. :\

Open source is an interesting idea, though possibly the least likely thing to ever happen considering the title and company in question. Even so, there is the gargantuan amount of work required to re-write things, which would need quite a few people really loving it to put their time into it.

Using a modern, already written game engine would work in that “only” thing required would be to create the world, quests, and everything else on top of it.

A clone of the game could be done, but because of licensing issues and crud, it would no doubt end up just not the same.


It's great to see people willing to fight for XI, but it may be in vain, since the target is not listening...

Blubb!

They already have an engine made they could use the 14 one. And most of the mobs are already made sense they used a bunch in 14 those would be already compeleted. They wouldn't use a lalafall for taru. Its not that hard to add more polygon's to the details to make them look better basement bob already did it. Have you not see that somebody made things for the mithria you can add to this game even in 14 already? And other races.

[bungiefanNA]

Yes and there was a guy who was a major devoloper who started a kick starter game. If its what people want than there is no shame in doing it.

Mighty No. 9 would like a word, as would the Double Fine kickstarter. I'm sure there's more that are from wellknown developers.

[Bluestar2kx]

They already have an engine made they could use the 14 one. And most of the mobs are already made sense they used a bunch in 14 those would be already compeleted. They wouldn't use a lalafall for taru. Its not that hard to add more polygon's to the details to make them look better basement bob already did it. Have you not see that somebody made things for the mithria you can add to this game even in 14 already? And other races.

Using XIV's engine would make the most sense, as it was already designed to do everything XI can, and then some. Plus, as you said, it's already using a lot of similar assets, including monsters. I mean, god, there's a giant crab a few zones from limsa that's basically a FFXI crab on crack, even called bubbly bernie I think lol.

So about 1/3rd of the work is already done. XIV's texture palette would also work nicely for Vana'diel, and the races, with some exceptions, would also work fine (galka needing tails and taru needing a few tweaks being the main issue.) bigger problem would be adjusting the skeletons, and porting FFXI animations such as idling and such, esp mithra tails which don't really move much in XIV, they just kind of.... float there.

Some mobs are already in XIV, it would take some work however to add airship zones, and boats plus their textures and models though since those are just quick cutscenes in XIV and lack any substance. But the engine is already set to work on the PS4, and the sony network already allows SE's MMO's through, so there you go, a whole new crowd of console users, with a much better engine for a classic world, esp since graphics are the number 1 complaint by gamers outside FFXI.

But even with all that, it would still take millions, and a few years of work, to port the quests, zones, interface and combat and everything else that makes FFXI, FFXI. But I think it would greatly help boost XI, it's not as user unfriendly as it used to be, and expanding it like that could greatly boost revenue for XI, crowd source funding could cut off a fair % of costs and show interest to SE to help fund the process.

The only downside is, XIV's server package is likely a lot more processor/ram intensive then XI's is, hell, you can run XI's server package on a basic PC and still run FFXI on that system, probably a few times over. XIV likely requires real server power though as it tracks and manages a lot more stuff then XI does, so maintenance costs would go up, not sure how to balance that in a way that gamers would accept. I'd take a small price bump to cover that, but I can't say if anyone else would, even for that kind of upgrade to the system.

But we'd gain so much...
We just have to fight together, the target may not be listening yet, but that doesn't mean they won't, they know. They do have a lot on their plate atm running XIV, and setting up FFXV, Kingdom hearts, Deus Ex, god knows what else. But they can be gotten through too. The uproar the week of announcement was a good example, and I think we got their attention, the question is, can we keep it?

[Ritsuka]

Using XIV's engine would make the most sense, as it was already designed to do everything XI can, and then some. Plus, as you said, it's already using a lot of similar assets, including monsters. I mean, god, there's a giant crab a few zones from limsa that's basically a FFXI crab on crack, even called bubbly bernie I think lol.

So about 1/3rd of the work is already done. XIV's texture palette would also work nicely for Vana'diel, and the races, with some exceptions, would also work fine (galka needing tails and taru needing a few tweaks being the main issue.) bigger problem would be adjusting the skeletons, and porting FFXI animations such as idling and such, esp mithra tails which don't really move much in XIV, they just kind of.... float there.

Some mobs are already in XIV, it would take some work however to add airship zones, and boats plus their textures and models though since those are just quick cutscenes in XIV and lack any substance. But the engine is already set to work on the PS4, and the sony network already allows SE's MMO's through, so there you go, a whole new crowd of console users, with a much better engine for a classic world, esp since graphics are the number 1 complaint by gamers outside FFXI.

But even with all that, it would still take millions, and a few years of work, to port the quests, zones, interface and combat and everything else that makes FFXI, FFXI. But I think it would greatly help boost XI, it's not as user unfriendly as it used to be, and expanding it like that could greatly boost revenue for XI, crowd source funding could cut off a fair % of costs and show interest to SE to help fund the process.

The only downside is, XIV's server package is likely a lot more processor/ram intensive then XI's is, hell, you can run XI's server package on a basic PC and still run FFXI on that system, probably a few times over. XIV likely requires real server power though as it tracks and manages a lot more stuff then XI does, so maintenance costs would go up, not sure how to balance that in a way that gamers would accept. I'd take a small price bump to cover that, but I can't say if anyone else would, even for that kind of upgrade to the system.

But we'd gain so much...
We just have to fight together, the target may not be listening yet, but that doesn't mean they won't, they know. They do have a lot on their plate atm running XIV, and setting up FFXV, Kingdom hearts, Deus Ex, god knows what else. But they can be gotten through too. The uproar the week of announcement was a good example, and I think we got their attention, the question is, can we keep it?

Ya all SE has to do let me know if they want to do something and I could setup a donation's web page youtube page something and maybe even make a video about the program. If we need to set a mark and well shoot to make it possable if they want to meet us half way or we can try to maybe pay for most of it. I don't see why the price would have to change. Its the same price as 14 pretty much expect you get unlimited char to make if you pick the higher tag or something. Can keep the same server price to pay its not to expensive I don't think. We would have a year to collect donation's I think that would give us plenty of time.

[Numquam]

I used to play a lot. I mean A LOT. Now, I log on thenask people what they are doing then chat a bit about RL then ask if they need in-game help (most say no) then mill around the town then tweak some gear then look at forums then lust over a possible mythic then get on my BLU to solo reives for 15 minutes then ask again in the LS if anyone wants to do something (again no) then log-off. Then I won't log on for a few days. Then I lurk on the forums for possible updates that would get excited to log on, but this isn't happening anymore. This has been going on for about 3 months. I have jumped to another server. People are nice, but nothing exciting goes on. I mean, yea, non-stop vagary or delve can be magical, but doing it over and over and over and over again just plain sucks when that is all anyone wants to do. I want the old MMORPG back...not this quasi-solo play with trusts. I buckled down and bought The Sims 3. I am doing more volunteer work. I work and looking to go back to school. I made it a point to make time for this game and my in-game friends, now most are gone. So, what is SE doing? I don't know.

[Dragoy]

They already have an engine made they could use the 14 one.

At the point you're referring to, I was mostly pondering upon the crazy situation where SqEX had sold XI, or even open-sourced it, in which case the tools you are thinking of would very most definite likely not be available.

Yes, it would seem like a simple thing to do for SqEX; rebuild XI on the tools they already have, and work forward from there. We get back to that it would still cost them money, and it seems they decided XI is worth more on a mobile platform (which is such a sad place to shove it into >.<).


I do hope somewhere there, deep within the company, a spark will ignite, and take over to steer things to a different kind of future. Or maybe that someone incredibly wealthy will buy the game, including the rights to use everything it uses. They might need to buy the whole company though... ^^;

[Ritsuka]

At the point you're referring to, I was mostly pondering upon the crazy situation where SqEX had sold XI, or even open-sourced it, in which case the tools you are thinking of would very most definite likely not be available.

Yes, it would seem like a simple thing to do for SqEX; rebuild XI on the tools they already have, and work forward from there. We get back to that it would still cost them money, and it seems they decided XI is worth more on a mobile platform (which is such a sad place to shove it into >.<).


I do hope somewhere there, deep within the company, a spark will ignite, and take over to steer things to a different kind of future. Or maybe that someone incredibly wealthy will buy the game, including the rights to use everything it uses. They might need to buy the whole company though... ^^;

Why do you keep repeating the same thing? What is about donations do people not understand? If we can raise enough money it wouldn't cost them nothing! That's the only answer I keep hearing money money money.

[bungiefanNA]

Selling rights to the property would cost them potential future use of the property, and control over it. Doing that with something in the mainline series of one of their most recognizable properties is not good IP management. Donations are not going to return the large amount of money it could be worth in the future keeping control of it. It's not just the immediate costs a company would be concerned with, it's future costs in opportunity.

[Dragoy]

Why do you keep repeating the same thing? What is about donations do people not understand? If we can raise enough money it wouldn't cost them nothing! That's the only answer I keep hearing money money money.

Well, that's what it is all about after all: money. ^^;

I'm sorry if I seem like repeating myself, or if it seemed like I'm actually against you, for that's certainly not true. I may not believe it's possible to achieve what you want, but that doesn't mean I don't wish or/and hope for you (us all) to succeed in it, or in something similar.

[Deadvinta]

Ritsuka, I'm gonna assume you're in your late teens or early 20s (based on your usage of colloquialisms and the simplistic viewpoints), because nothing you are proposing is as simple as you clearly want it to be. You keep saying you're willing to start a GoFundMe or Kickstarter and "Ya all SE has to do let me know if they want to do something," but consider... Why would a major international company seek the help of some schmuck in the United States to do a task they could do themselves in larger, more efficient quantities?

Side comment, why does Dragoy type like he's a Japanese schoolgirl? And do you legitimately think Final Fantasy XIV is supposed to be typed X|V?

[Deadvinta]

Perhaps we need a FFXIV joint-subscription model activating 1 FFXI PlayOnline content ID (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/46991-ATTN-Let-us-play-both-FFXI-and-FFXIV-simultaneously-with-a-joint-subscription-option?p=548969)

Teleste, when we told you to come to the forums to promote the re-enactment of the simultaneous subscription model, we meant for you to start a thread. We did not tell you to dump advertisements in every thread you think it even slightly relevant.

[Isal]

I recently came back to this game (albeit, due to the whole playonline mess and the fact that while I owned every expansion up through WotG, I never even made it into Zilart's content, I just went with the simple $10 purchase and started over), and I'm already enjoying it more than FFXIV. Granted, that's partly due to the increased accessibility to someone like me who hasn't the time to play a game that relies entirely on joining parties after level 10-12 like XI used to, but nonetheless, there's something about an open world where you have to watch your step that appeals to me.

So despite being on my third playonline ID, I'm more or less a noob, but I was under the impression that the "now what?" for this game was Project Vana'diel: New content to bring XI's story to a close, the Grand Masters mobile game that's likely going to keep Vana'diel around when/if FFXI is shut down entirely, and the mobile client for FFXI. They're looking at 2016 for the release date on that last one, so it seems like they at least plan to keep the servers up for a little while after that.

Given the mobile client, I doubt they're going to bother sinking time and money into sprucing up the game's graphic engine (which I don't exactly see as necessary anyway, personally).

[bungiefanNA]

Grandmasters may keep Vanadiel around for a while, but a lot of the people that like the world won't have access without a global release, while it is only announced for Japan right now.

[Isal]

Grandmasters may keep Vanadiel around for a while, but a lot of the people that like the world won't have access without a global release, while it is only announced for Japan right now.

True, it's not a given, but assuming it doesn't tank and meets their $ quota, there'd at least be a chance of a global release at some point.

[Ritsuka]

Selling rights to the property would cost them potential future use of the property, and control over it. Doing that with something in the mainline series of one of their most recognizable properties is not good IP management. Donations are not going to return the large amount of money it could be worth in the future keeping control of it. It's not just the immediate costs a company would be concerned with, it's future costs in opportunity.

The monthly fee well pay for server upkeep just like it has been doing.

[Ritsuka]

I recently came back to this game (albeit, due to the whole playonline mess and the fact that while I owned every expansion up through WotG, I never even made it into Zilart's content, I just went with the simple $10 purchase and started over), and I'm already enjoying it more than FFXIV. Granted, that's partly due to the increased accessibility to someone like me who hasn't the time to play a game that relies entirely on joining parties after level 10-12 like XI used to, but nonetheless, there's something about an open world where you have to watch your step that appeals to me.

So despite being on my third playonline ID, I'm more or less a noob, but I was under the impression that the "now what?" for this game was Project Vana'diel: New content to bring XI's story to a close, the Grand Masters mobile game that's likely going to keep Vana'diel around when/if FFXI is shut down entirely, and the mobile client for FFXI. They're looking at 2016 for the release date on that last one, so it seems like they at least plan to keep the servers up for a little while after that.

Given the mobile client, I doubt they're going to bother sinking time and money into sprucing up the game's graphic engine (which I don't exactly see as necessary anyway, personally).

you don't but didnt stop most of the people from b@#@ing about the graphics of the game. Saying "ps2 is holding us back"

[Isal]

you don't but didnt stop most of the people from b@#@ing about the graphics of the game. Saying "ps2 is holding us back"

Personally, I was amazed when I realized it was actually launched on the PS2, and then ported to PC. Would have loved to have experienced an MMO on my PS2 back in the day, but I never got the hard drive accessory.

In any case, even with the consoles being dropped, I get the feeling that the mobile client is going to be all the more incentive for them to "hold back" the graphics for the forseeable future. As it stands, the current graphics are at least on par if not a bit above what I've seen on a few current mobile MMOs.

[Yhippa]

I just resubbed while waiting for Heavensward for XIV. I really hadn't played this game since the PS2 beta. I'm actually very impressed at how well the graphics hold up. I like that there aren't things flashing all over the place so I can be more strategic about combat. I do like the character model and I'm surprised it holds up after 10+ years. Honestly I'm okay with no HD remake as long as they take care of the game for the rest of it's lifespan.

[Zumi]

Been playing FFXIV but coming back to play some FFXI in the free week. Between both games I do enjoy FFXIV more. But its nice that SE has these free weeks so we can check out the new storyline in FFXI.

[Adventurer]

FFXI is the opposite, the amount of love and inspiration that went into the original content/lore side of the game is staggering, and the graphics are still OK but less important to me than the playable world.

I agree with this completely. When FFXI was created we were in different times. We didn't expect and demand so much from a MMO. Much like cars now days, where if it doesn't have bluetooth connectivity, iPod hookups, towing capability and gets over 40mpg we don't want to touch it. Long ago people were so happy and excited just to have one of these motorized contraptions that allowed them to commute and explore.

Back then, when FFXI was created it was done so with such heart, feeling and emotion. They set out to make an online world, some where that completely removes you from reality and puts you some where else. I agree completely with the notion that the difficulty also had a big part to play in it. It made you appreciate the friendships you made and the hardships you overcame, much like we do in the real world, whereas games like FFXIV just feel like some pretty 3D environment where people can play dress up doll with an online persona. These games like FFXIV will never feel like FFXI.

I personally think at some point people will realize what's going on. I hold onto the hope that some day people will once again change what they demand so that they can experience a true online adventure. I really hope that they keep FFXI hanging on for this reason. I hate people who say things like "Everything must come to an end." While it may be true for each of our own lives, look at how many things have lived through so many generations and have been passed down for so many years and will most likely continue in such a way. 15 years is nothing, it's a tiny spec of time so small in the cosmic realm that it's almost impossible to even calculate. We just entered into this electronic era of computers and internet. Why in the world could Vana'Diel not be expanded and enjoyed for hundreds if not thousands of years? Look at the Olympics, did those come to an end? No, people continue to expand on it, perfect it, participate in it and enjoy it.

I think by letting Vana'Diel wither away humanity is losing something truly unique that it may not produce ever again or for a very long time. A True online world of adventure, something that makes you feel like the story of your life is more real in a virtual land than in reality. Again, to me FFXI was much more than just a game with a lot more heart and creativity put into it. It was one of the first of it's kind and I believe that's what they set out to create when they made it, where as the new MMO's like FFXIV have been created solely for profit, to tickle some one's fancy just long enough to get some quick cash and move on to a new project. What's the fun in that?

I still am confused about the future of FFXI. I hear a lot of people saying it is about to die, yet SE said they are just going to stop making major updates but that they will continue to maintain the game. Perhaps this is a sign that they do want it to hang on. Why couldn't it be here hanging on for many many more years? As others have said, if they're making a good 20 million or so a year off of this game, that's more than enough to pay some programmer's salaries, office space, equipment, utilities and still turn a good profit.

[Teraniku]

Mighty No. 9 would like a word, as would the Double Fine kickstarter. I'm sure there's more that are from wellknown developers.

As would Obsidian Entertainment (Pillars of Eternity)

[Ritsuka]

Ritsuka, I'm gonna assume you're in your late teens or early 20s (based on your usage of colloquialisms and the simplistic viewpoints), because nothing you are proposing is as simple as you clearly want it to be. You keep saying you're willing to start a GoFundMe or Kickstarter and "Ya all SE has to do let me know if they want to do something," but consider... Why would a major international company seek the help of some schmuck in the United States to do a task they could do themselves in larger, more efficient quantities?

Side comment, why does Dragoy type like he's a Japanese schoolgirl? And do you legitimately think Final Fantasy XIV is supposed to be typed X|V?

Its not hard to code. If you want the game to die than shut up and don't post and stop playing it. Your only part of the problem. If you want to see live than help

[Stompa]

..............................I still am confused about the future of FFXI. I hear a lot of people saying it is about to die, yet SE said they are just going to stop making major updates but that they will continue to maintain the game. Perhaps this is a sign that they do want it to hang on. Why couldn't it be here hanging on for many many more years? As others have said, if they're making a good 20 million or so a year off of this game, that's more than enough to pay some programmer's salaries, office space, equipment, utilities and still turn a good profit.

I liked this post, thankyou for writing it.

On the whole "dated graphics" thing, I have been forming a theory of why I like FFXI graphics better than the shiny new games. In FFXI the characters and NPCs look a lot like dolls and toy soldiers, they have a simple and pure doll-like quality, which is very charming and attractive.

Its like in real life, I think actual real dolls, toys and manga characters etc. are often more beautiful than real people, even though real people are in super-realistic high definition. I still prefer my clunky old Motoko Kusanagi films from decades ago, even though she looks nothing like a real person, she looks like a doll. And I like that, there is a certain simple gracefulness to dolls that isn't the same when we look at a human being, with all their complexity and details.

So I'm starting to think that the FFXI doll-like simplicity of character graphics, is actually like the "Goldilocks Effect" of videogames. It is not "too cold" like the old 2D stickman games, but not "too hot" like the hyper-realistic shiny new games. It may be that FFXI-era graphics was actually the perfect sweet-spot inbetween too simple and too complex graphics.

So its like, where do we get off the Realism Bus. I've been on this computer-graphics bus since 1981, when I was running home from school to load my cassette-tape games with their 2D graphics. Do I keep riding this bus until games look more realistic than real life, or do I get off the bus at the point in time where games have a certain magical doll-like charm, with toy soldiers and dolls, which are elegant in a simple and pure way, like all the best dolls and manga always were.

Speaking for myself, I've been on this computer-graphics bus for a long time, and this place here is my stop. The FFXI level of graphics is where I want to get off the bus.
:cool:

[Adventurer]

I liked this post, thankyou for writing it.

On the whole "dated graphics" thing, I have been forming a theory of why I like FFXI graphics better than the shiny new games. In FFXI the characters and NPCs look a lot like dolls and toy soldiers, they have a simple and pure doll-like quality, which is very charming and attractive.

Its like in real life, I think actual real dolls, toys and manga characters etc. are often more beautiful than real people, even though real people are in super-realistic high definition. I still prefer my clunky old Motoko Kusanagi films from decades ago, even though she looks nothing like a real person, she looks like a doll. And I like that, there is a certain simple gracefulness to dolls that isn't the same when we look at a human being, with all their complexity and details.

So I'm starting to think that the FFXI doll-like simplicity of character graphics, is actually like the "Goldilocks Effect" of videogames. It is not "too cold" like the old 2D stickman games, but not "too hot" like the hyper-realistic shiny new games. It may be that FFXI-era graphics was actually the perfect sweet-spot inbetween too simple and too complex graphics.

So its like, where do we get off the Realism Bus. I've been on this computer-graphics bus since 1981, when I was running home from school to load my cassette-tape games with their 2D graphics. Do I keep riding this bus until games look more realistic than real life, or do I get off the bus at the point in time where games have a certain magical doll-like charm, with toy soldiers and dolls, which are elegant in a simple and pure way, like all the best dolls and manga always were.

Speaking for myself, I've been on this computer-graphics bus for a long time, and this place here is my stop. The FFXI level of graphics is where I want to get off the bus.
:cool:

I've also noticed that when you look at the worlds themselves you see the same effect. Look at Eorzea. You look up into the sky and there are about 50 trillion stars visible to the naked eye. You can see halfway across the very world itself and there's less of a sense of "What's around the corner or over the hill." Not to mention they DOWSED the world in CRYSTAL GOODNESS instead of making crystals these mysterious things that appear seldom in long forgotten places. I loved how in Vana'Diel it felt like a world that could really exist, with amazing beauty and TRUE diversity but then you had certain areas that were slightly different, more on the fantasy side and maybe a crystal or odd structure every here and there. To me, Eorzea just feels way too overdone, but it's not just FFXIV, most newer MMO's have that feel. Trillions of crystals, being able to see the next closest planet in detail, being able to see every single monster across the what feels like a limited horizon. To me, Vana'Diel stretched your imagination, it let you ponder what was out there, beyond that hazy horizon or through that labyrinth. This is why I believe Square Enix had something truly special and artfully made with FFXI, something that will be impossible to recreate. I wish dearly they would have just concentrated their efforts on what they already had, especially with such a loyal core instead of just wanting to put out the next shiny iMMO.

[Ritsuka]

Personally, I was amazed when I realized it was actually launched on the PS2, and then ported to PC. Would have loved to have experienced an MMO on my PS2 back in the day, but I never got the hard drive accessory.

In any case, even with the consoles being dropped, I get the feeling that the mobile client is going to be all the more incentive for them to "hold back" the graphics for the forseeable future. As it stands, the current graphics are at least on par if not a bit above what I've seen on a few current mobile MMOs.

lol you have no idea how many people filled these forums crying about they think the graphics are bad and blame the ps2.

[Isal]

lol you have no idea how many people filled these forums crying about they think the graphics are bad and blame the ps2.

I defiinitely didn't bother with forums back in the day like I do now, but honestly, the graphics look fine to me. Dated, sure, but lots of MMOs toned the graphics back a little bit compared to non-mmo games of the same generation in order to reduce the system requirements for a broader playerbase.

[Ritsuka]

I just resubbed while waiting for Heavensward for XIV. I really hadn't played this game since the PS2 beta. I'm actually very impressed at how well the graphics hold up. I like that there aren't things flashing all over the place so I can be more strategic about combat. I do like the character model and I'm surprised it holds up after 10+ years. Honestly I'm okay with no HD remake as long as they take care of the game for the rest of it's lifespan.

I don't know why people keep thinking the mobile thing is going to be the new thing. Have you not read what they said about it? For one its not like this one PC its new game by itself its totally different and Square is not making the game. And 2 the only thing smiler that's going to be between this game and the mobile game is the name. They are going to use the name Vanadiel thats it, you are not going to be able to play your character your on now on PC onto mobile. Its a new game. And also they have no plans to launch that game in North America. Or the EU Japan only.

[Seillan]

I don't know why people keep thinking the mobile thing is going to be the new thing. Have you not read what they said about it? For one its not like this one PC its new game by itself its totally different and Square is not making the game. And 2 the only thing smiler that's going to be between this game and the mobile game is the name. They are going to use the name Vanadiel thats it, you are not going to be able to play your character your on now on PC onto mobile. Its a new game. And also they have no plans to launch that game in North America. Or the EU Japan only.

I'm going to take a guess and say that you're confusing the FFXI mobile client that Nexon is developing with the standalone Grandmasters game that will be releasing in Japan only. They are two separate things. As far as I'm aware, the mobile client of FFXI will be just that -- a port of this game with differences to combat and such, but retaining much of the same story content and whatnot. That's been my impression ever since the announcement was made. Where are you reading that it's going to be a totally different game?

[Isal]

I've seen quite a few people confuse the Grandmasters game and FFXI Mobile as the same thing. They've specifically stated they intend to release FFXI Mobile in areas including and outside of Japan, while Grandmasters has only been announced for Japan.

It is true though that they intend for FFXI Mobile to be treated as a separate game in terms of account. It won't be used to login to the same servers as the current FFXI, and they've stated they intend for it to involve a separate account altogether, and only intend to start off with content based on the first 1-2 expansions on release. Otherwise, though, it's entirely meant to "recapture" the original FFXI but with a less-clunky UI designed from the ground up for mobile, easier methods for getting a party together, and easier methods for solo play.

[Runespider]

I've seen quite a few people confuse the Grandmasters game and FFXI Mobile as the same thing. They've specifically stated they intend to release FFXI Mobile in areas including and outside of Japan, while Grandmasters has only been announced for Japan.

It is true though that they intend for FFXI Mobile to be treated as a separate game in terms of account. It won't be used to login to the same servers as the current FFXI, and they've stated they intend for it to involve a separate account altogether, and only intend to start off with content based on the first 1-2 expansions on release. Otherwise, though, it's entirely meant to "recapture" the original FFXI but with a less-clunky UI designed from the ground up for mobile, easier methods for getting a party together, and easier methods for solo play.

The mobile game will be...a mobile game. That should say it all really, there are no mobile games that compare to ffxi because the technology simply isn't there yet.

It's just a cash-in, a cash-in that could make nexon millions upon millions of dollars based on p2w but a mobile game all the same.

I discounted the vanadiel venture for what it was when I read the announcement.

[bungiefanNA]

I'm going to take a guess and say that you're confusing the FFXI mobile client that Nexon is developing with the standalone Grandmasters game that will be releasing in Japan only. They are two separate things. As far as I'm aware, the mobile client of FFXI will be just that -- a port of this game with differences to combat and such, but retaining much of the same story content and whatnot. That's been my impression ever since the announcement was made. Where are you reading that it's going to be a totally different game?

Freshly Picked after the press release, and the Famitsu interview, and some other posts by Camate here. FFXI Mobile won't use the same servers or accounts. They are shooting for a release of content up to, maybe including Chains of Promathia, and everyone will be starting fresh. It will also be available in languages that FFXI was not, ever, like Korean, like Record Keeper is

Grandmasters is more of a single-player or small party game, set in Vanadiel, but with a different story, and is not announced for release outside of Japan, like Pictlogica. It's a shame too, because Grandmasters looks to be a more interesting game, like Pictlogica is versus what they have brought over with Record Keeper and Airborne Brigade. I'm playing both global Record Keeper and JP Pictlogica, and my wife, who can't read Japanese at all, and I, are playing much more Pictlogica than Record Keeper. It's a shame we can't use the shop to actually give them money for Pictlogica, since we can't process non-JP payment with our American cards and American Google accounts.

Looking at SE's other mobile games though, expect stamina bars to limit how much time you can play at once, and ever increasing stamina costs as you get farther in the game. Every free to play game of theirs I can see, whether from DeNA, Jupiter, or elsewhere, uses the same stamina system, they charge 100 yen / $1 to refill the meter without waiting, and a 3 minute wait per point of stamina. I would be surprised if FFXI mobile or Grandmasters was F2P and didn't have this. If they charged a one-time fee for the game, then it likely wouldn't have it.

[Isal]

The mobile game will be...a mobile game. That should say it all really, there are no mobile games that compare to ffxi because the technology simply isn't there yet. [...]

I was only pointing out that people tend to confuse the two games as one and the same. FFXI Mobile has been explained to be more or less a mobile client for a game meant to play in a similar fashion to Final Fantasy XI. SE's even going so far as to dub FFXI Mobile as the first "MMMRPG". Between that and the fact that there are already F2P MMORPGs on the mobile platform that don't have stamina gauges and such to limit how long you can play at a time, I prefer to wait and actually see how Nexon handles it rather than try to play the "I called it" prediction game.

Considering FFXI was built for the PlayStation 2, I highly doubt recent mobile devices would have trouble replicating FFXI's current graphical appearance, especially if the client is built from the ground up for said mobile devices.

[Makenshi]

I mainly just want the game to be preserved in some way. Maybe some downloadable program that lets you pick story lines so you can watch the story.

[Seillan]

Freshly Picked after the press release, and the Famitsu interview, and some other posts by Camate here. FFXI Mobile won't use the same servers or accounts. They are shooting for a release of content up to, maybe including Chains of Promathia, and everyone will be starting fresh. It will also be available in languages that FFXI was not, ever, like Korean, like Record Keeper is

Grandmasters is more of a single-player or small party game, set in Vanadiel, but with a different story, and is not announced for release outside of Japan, like Pictlogica. It's a shame too, because Grandmasters looks to be a more interesting game, like Pictlogica is versus what they have brought over with Record Keeper and Airborne Brigade. I'm playing both global Record Keeper and JP Pictlogica, and my wife, who can't read Japanese at all, and I, are playing much more Pictlogica than Record Keeper. It's a shame we can't use the shop to actually give them money for Pictlogica, since we can't process non-JP payment with our American cards and American Google accounts.

Looking at SE's other mobile games though, expect stamina bars to limit how much time you can play at once, and ever increasing stamina costs as you get farther in the game. Every free to play game of theirs I can see, whether from DeNA, Jupiter, or elsewhere, uses the same stamina system, they charge 100 yen / $1 to refill the meter without waiting, and a 3 minute wait per point of stamina. I would be surprised if FFXI mobile or Grandmasters was F2P and didn't have this. If they charged a one-time fee for the game, then it likely wouldn't have it.

Oh, I know all of that. Heck, I knew that the mobile version would have separate servers right after the first announcement, just due to the wording. I actually even argued that point with people before it was officially clarified.

I was just pointing out that the mobile version is separate from the standalone game being developed for Japan only, as so many people seem to confuse them.

And wow, if they really end up using that stamina system, I doubt there's much chance at all that I'll even consider trying the mobile client. That sounds awful.

[Diraco]

Considering FFXI was built for the PlayStation 2, I highly doubt recent mobile devices would have trouble replicating FFXI's current graphical appearance, especially if the client is built from the ground up for said mobile devices.

Have you seen what FFXI looks like on the PS2?
<2012 youtube video> (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d2j0k5V7ig)
That's the maximum quality capture possible with a ps2 (slight compression artifacts added by youtube, watch at 720p). It's so awful, I can't believe it was a success. Graphics like that have no chance at all these days, even on a phone. They had best be targeting at least the xb360's capabilities, which I think is 640x480 background resolution.

[Runespider]

Have you seen what FFXI looks like on the PS2?
<2012 youtube video> (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d2j0k5V7ig)
That's the maximum quality capture possible with a ps2 (slight compression artifacts added by youtube, watch at 720p). It's so awful, I can't believe it was a success. Graphics like that have no chance at all these days, even on a phone. They had best be targeting at least the xb360's capabilities, which I think is 640x480 background resolution.

You don't seem to realise that many people are not really all that impressed with pretty graphics, go look at everquest and lineage 1 and marvel at the army of people that play them both. Also that video is not showing the game as it actually looked, youtube sucks in how much it compresses the videos.

[bungiefanNA]

PC FFXI looks the same as PS2 (minus the PS2 doing some effects better, like avatar auras and the orbs on elemental staves being properly transparent) if you set PC FFXI to run at 640x480 resolution, which the PS2 is running at, and don't enable the improved menu icons. Xbox 360 can run at a higher resolution, and use some of the improvements.

[Ritsuka]

Have you seen what FFXI looks like on the PS2?
<2012 youtube video> (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d2j0k5V7ig)
That's the maximum quality capture possible with a ps2 (slight compression artifacts added by youtube, watch at 720p). It's so awful, I can't believe it was a success. Graphics like that have no chance at all these days, even on a phone. They had best be targeting at least the xb360's capabilities, which I think is 640x480 background resolution.

You seem to forget when the game was released..... I wasn't bad back than. It was good its low now yes but not than.

[Stompa]

Whatever we might think of PS2~era graphics etc. the thing that strikes me most is what the post-FFXI world would be like. There would be countless online games still available, and no FFXI, even though imho this game is better than all those other online games combined. This situation would be like an Art Gallery that has one single masterpiece work of art by a total legendary genius artist, and thousands of paintings by total amateurs. And they throw the masterpiece painting away, leaving a huge gallery full of worthless crayon drawings.

I just hope they keep the masterpiece up on the wall for as long as possible, so that those of us who know good art when we see it, can enjoy it.

[Ritsuka]

Whatever we might think of PS2~era graphics etc. the thing that strikes me most is what the post-FFXI world would be like. There would be countless online games still available, and no FFXI, even though imho this game is better than all those other online games combined. This situation would be like an Art Gallery that has one single masterpiece work of art by a total legendary genius artist, and thousands of paintings by total amateurs. And they throw the masterpiece painting away, leaving a huge gallery full of worthless crayon drawings.

I just hope they keep the masterpiece up on the wall for as long as possible, so that those of us who know good art when we see it, can enjoy it.

Yup and I think optimizing the game for PC now would be best at keeping playable and interesting again for others to come back too.