[DEV] WS Request for SMN and BLM

[Zeargi]

I saw that RDM was getting: - Adding sword weapon skills previously exclusive to other jobs. Which is about time.

But can SMN and BLM (idk if SCH can, but yes if the don't >_> ) please also get the missing Staff Skill seeing how it is their primary weapon and WHM gets them plus all the club skills? Thanks~!!

[Alhanelem]

buff Gate of Tartarus please

[Grekumah]

There are no plans to increase the damage mage jobs can do via weapon skills.

In regards to black mage, we'd like to make some adjustments since they are not able to use the TP gained when successfully landing a magic burst. However, it’s not practical for black mages to be in melee range when taking on high-level content, so instead of enhancing weapon skills, the development team would like to give black mages other avenues to use TP.

One plan that is being worked on at the moment is to introduce an ability that consumes TP to boost elemental magic spell damage. This is one way to improve black mage's damage dealing capabilities.

[Clou777]

any chance summoner can get some form of occult acumen from BP usage?

[Alhanelem]

There are no plans to increase the damage mage jobs can do via weapon skills.

In regards to black mage, we'd like to make some adjustments since they are not able to use the TP gained when successfully landing a magic burst. However, it’s not practical for black mages to be in melee range when taking on high-level content, so instead of enhancing weapon skills, the development team would like to give black mages other avenues to use TP.

One plan that is being worked on at the moment is to introduce an ability that consumes TP to boost elemental magic spell damage. This is one way to improve black mage's damage dealing capabilities.
I'd like you to reconsider this. Although I said it somewhat jokingly, the relic WS (and pretty much the only reason to own the relic) is more or less inferior to Shattersoul, an easily obtained merit point WS.

Summoner is a unique beast in that all its abilities are on the pet and the pet can only act every so often, so particularly when playing solo, it is not uncommon for us to use our staves and weapon skills, especially in reives where pets don't seem to count? I'm not asking that SMN be the king of melee physical DPS, I'm only asking for a RELIC WEAPONSKILL to be competitive in comparison to other WS on the same weapon (To be fair, it is second best, but it seems to have a high probability of missing compared to any other staff WS, something I haven't been able to figure out)

Also as far as black mage, they could use the TP on Myrkr, a noncombat WS, so I don't think they need any special adjustments.

I'm one of approximately THREE people on my server in posession of Claustrum. I don't regret doing it as I had a reason to want it that goes beyond it (and beyond it being something on my FFXI bucket list), but I was pretty disappointed to find that the relic WS doesn't outperform Shattersoul. Why make any such purely melee staves for mage jobs only and be so adamant against improving this?

[Rubeus]

BLU could really use an occult acumen facsimile as well, I'd like to add.

[Zeargi]

There are no plans to increase the damage mage jobs can do via weapon skills.

In regards to black mage, we'd like to make some adjustments since they are not able to use the TP gained when successfully landing a magic burst. However, it’s not practical for black mages to be in melee range when taking on high-level content, so instead of enhancing weapon skills, the development team would like to give black mages other avenues to use TP.

One plan that is being worked on at the moment is to introduce an ability that consumes TP to boost elemental magic spell damage. This is one way to improve black mage's damage dealing capabilities.


No offense, it's stupid that WHM gets every staff WS when their primary weapon is the CLUB. SMN can skillchain with their avatars and have access to the missing staff still would be nothing but a boon. BLM has Occult Acumen and with the hopeful revitalization of Abyssea this would also help Proc NMs. SCH gets Occult Acumen AND a Job Ability that allows for SC with spells.

[Crevox]

I'm one of approximately THREE people on my server in posession of Claustrum. I don't regret doing it as I had a reason to want it that goes beyond it (and beyond it being something on my FFXI bucket list), but I was pretty disappointed to find that the relic WS doesn't outperform Shattersoul. Why make any such purely melee staves for mage jobs only and be so adamant against improving this?


First of all, you shouldn't be using FFXIAH as a way to track relic users across the entire server. Only the people that register on the site will have their relic show up on the site. There are MANY more relics, mythics, and empyreans that are not listed there. This is not even close to "approximate."

Secondly, you shouldn't be disappointed, as you could have easily found out going into it that it under-performs in damage. Staff weaponskills in general are used for their additional effects, not for their damage. The additional effect on Gate of Tartarus is to lower the enemy's attack, and then Refresh. The attack down is decent, and while the Refresh is weak, this has been acknowledged since day one. This weaponskill also contains the skillchain element of Darkness, which if I had Claustrum (and didn't want to use my Nirvana for some reason), I would be using in order to do double darkness with my avatar. It even has distortion, which is not something a SMN would have access to with a staff otherwise.

There are many relic weaponskills that under-perform in damage compared to other weaponskills. The staff is no exception, and even actually has a couple nice situational uses to it. Why do you think it should be buffed? It sounds like it serves its purpose just fine. If you desired the functions that exist for this weaponskill, you make the relic and there you go. You made it, knowing full well all the information on the weaponskills capabilities is available online, but then are "disappointed" when you use it and it's not up to par. I am well aware you had other motives to making it, but there is still no reason to be disappointed.

No, I don't think it should be buffed in damage. With the additional effects and skillchain properties, it serves its niche purpose. There's no reason it should be the best damage on top of the other things.

[Alhanelem]

No offense, it's stupid that WHM gets every staff WS when their primary weapon is the CLUB. SMN can skillchain with their avatars and have access to the missing staff still would be nothing but a boon. BLM has Occult Acumen and with the hopeful revitalization of Abyssea this would also help Proc NMs. SCH gets Occult Acumen AND a Job Ability that allows for SC with spells.
+1 this, it bugs me that I have to sub WHM on SMN to have the better versions of the earth and light WS as well, when I'm more likely to be using them than the WHM is.


First of all, you shouldn't be using FFXIAH as a way to track relic users across the entire server. Only the people that register on the site will have their relic show up on the site. There are MANY more relics, mythics, and empyreans that are not listed there. This is not even close to "approximate."That's why I said "approximate" because there are probably others that aren't listed. But the POINT was: Not very many people have it. You KNOW that's what I meant.

Your argument about additional effects holds no water, because Shattersoul has an additional effect as well. Yes, I'd expect a completely damage based WS to be superior, but the WS we're comparing both have additional effects.

It's somewhat more fair to argue that other relic weaponsills are not the best either, but I think this is a problem that no relic should have. They should all at least be *comprable* with the aftermath considered. It's actually frustrating because in my case, I NEED to use GoT for the aftermath at least now and then, even though Shattersoul is better. Shattersoul can also create Darkness, just not with itself.

I'd also like to emphasize that I'm not asking that staff users become uber melee DD gods, rather I'm asking that the weaponskills get a looking-at for possible tweaking. GoT isn't *bad* as far as staff WS go, I'm only disappointed that it's not the best one. Personally, I'm still having fun with it- it's definitely amusing when I get a 1600 crit on a regular attack due to hidden relic proc :p

[Crevox]

That's why I said "approximate" because there are probably others that aren't listed. But the POINT was: Not very many people have it. You KNOW that's what I meant.


Oh, I know that's what you meant, but I wouldn't even call it approximate. It's not even close. I came to realize this easily when I saw how many Nirvana users were in game with me.


Your argument about additional effects holds no water, because Shattersoul has an additional effect as well. Yes, I'd expect a completely damage based WS to be superior, but the WS we're comparing both have additional effects.


And ultimately, one will be stronger than the other, no matter which way you put it, unless you want them to have the exact same fTP/stats. Technically, Gate of Tarutaru has more additional effects (ATK down, Refresh) in addition to powerful skillchain properties. That would justify its lower damage output, easily. Yeah, Shattersoul has MDB down. I know.


They should all at least be *comprable* with the aftermath considered.

But most of the aftermaths aren't even about damage output, they're about utility. It doesn't seem like they were intended to be the win-all in the past nor now. You say they should be comparable, but their use right now exists due to those situational properties and effects gained as a trade-off of damage. It serves its purpose.


I NEED to use GoT for the aftermath at least now and then

No. Gate of Tarutaru provides an 8/MP per tick refresh. At 3000 TP, that's 60 seconds. That's 20 ticks, or 160 MP gained. Even if you were using spirit taker on an extremely physical resistant mob, you could EASILY garner more than 160 MP, instantly, rather than after 1 minute. I Spirit Taker mobs for around 2k with that much TP sometimes (2k MP). Even if you didn't want to use Spirit Taker, you could use Myrkr too, which also would be far better.

If anything, you should be arguing for the case of buffing the aftermath effect rather than buffing the damage of the weaponskill due to how poor it is. However, the attack down effect is still quite useful, and the skillchain properties give it use. Again, I personally don't believe it needs a buff in damage. If I had it, and I wasn't using Nirvana (which can't be trumped), you bet I would be making use of it, at least in some situations (hey look it's situational!).

I personally don't even care how much damage the weaponskill does. When it comes to Shattersoul, Garland of Bliss, Shell Crusher, etc, I use magic accuracy sets. Again, the additional effect is what is important here; not the damage. I am using the weaponskill to skillchain and for their special effects. I am more worried about it landing and functioning than however much piddly amount of damage it will provide.

[Alhanelem]

I came to realize this easily when I saw how many Nirvana users were in game with me.Nirvana is different, because everyone actually wants that one.


No. Gate of Tarutaru provides an 8/MP per tick refresh. At 3000 TP, that's 60 seconds. That's 20 ticks, or 160 MP gained. Even if you were using spirit taker on an extremely physical resistant mob, you could EASILY garner more than 160 MP, instantly, rather than after 1 minute. I Spirit Taker mobs for around 2k with that much TP sometimes (2k MP). Even if you didn't want to use Spirit Taker, you could use Myrkr too, which also would be far better.Spirit taker returns more MP yes, but is a lot weaker. I'd rather use GoT unless i'm running really low (largely because I might way "overheal" on MP). Just my preference, I'd rather not run out of MP at all than run out for even a second or two. OCD, maybe, but thats just how it is for me. If I can do more damage and not run out of MP, that's better than doing less damage and not running out of MP.


I am more worried about it landing and functioning than however much piddly amount of damage it will provide. There was a reason I picked up one of hte highest DMG: staves in the game, and hint: it wasn't for additional effects since the weapon doesn't matter for that purpose (except the hidden effect on all relics). And at least from a solo perspective, that damage is hardly "piddly" against my avatar.

I think you're arguing just to argue with me (and probably because you think that's my only purpose on this forum), because there's no way that buffing that WS, which very few people have, would unbalance anything. Even if they doubled the damage it wouldn't be shattering any records, but I'm not asking for that. I simply think it should be above shattersoul, which is easily the best 1000 TP WS right now. Not worlds above, just above. I don't think this is an unreasonable request.

[Crevox]

Nirvana is different, because everyone actually wants that one.


How does that make it any different? The point is that the website does not accurately estimate the quantity of an item within a specific server, nor does it attempt to, and thus, is not an accurate benchmark for approximating it. I was simply using that to bolster that point.


Spirit taker returns more MP yes, but is a lot weaker. I'd rather use GoT unless i'm running really low.


Correct, it has a situational use. Gate of Tarutaru does more damage, however, does restore less MP, in addition to the other properties of the weaponskill. However, your statement made it sound like you use it solely for the aftermath, or, aim to use it as an answer to low MP issues, or, try to maintain the aftermath. If I was wrong in assuming that, then woops, but its niche still fits.


There was a reason I picked up one of hte highest DMG: staves in the game, and hint: it wasn't for additional effects (except the hidden effect on all relics). And at least from a solo perspective, that damage is hardly "piddly" against my avatar.


But there are numerous easily obtainable alternatives with more damage than Claustrum. If you're only out for damage, something as simple as a Homestead Scepter would beat it, and that is just a small hunk of bayld. If you wanted a pure DPS melee staff, than Gridarvor wins in both damage and delay, offering higher DPS, avatar melee DPS through the avatar stats, AND is very economical on your MP thanks to the perpetuation cost reduction. You could say "well I could get that to minimum through gear" but even that is false, because then you'd easily be giving up some refresh to accomplish that. If we're talking about black mage, Kaladanda is in the same boat. These are just 3 staves that will serve better as a melee staff, and there are more, without costing an approximate 100 million gil.

The damage of your avatar will greatly vary with gear, of course. However, even before Nirvana, my avatar was greatly out damaging my weaponskills. This is compounded by the fact that the blood pact's damage is increased from skillchaining with your staff weaponskill, not even counting the skillchain damage. Any amount of damage you gain from using a weaponskill for damage is moot if you have to decide not to skillchain with your avatar with your TP; not worth it, at all. You lose too much damage from not skillchaining the blood pact.

Either way, I certainly deem the damage as completely negligible. The damage is poor, and I could've used the TP to do so many different things than just push out self weaponskill damage. Even doing something like Shell Crusher will help both my avatar and I out more in the long run, but skillchaining is of course the go-to choice, especially considering it usually takes about that long (30 seconds) to get that 1000 TP, without Nirvana aftermath of course. This syncs it up with the blood pact perfectly to skillchain every time.

And yes, this is all from a solo perspective.


I think you're arguing just to argue with me (and probably because you think that's my only purpose on this forum), because there's no way that buffing that WS, which very few people have, would unbalance anything. Even if they doubled the damage it wouldn't be shattering any records, but I'm not asking for that. I simply think it should be above shattersoul, which is easily the best 1000 TP WS right now. Not worlds above, just above. I don't think this is an unreasonable request.

Ew, no. I don't argue to argue, of course not. I am also not against buffing things, or making changes for the bettering of the game. However, I do certainly believe that in this case, a buff just isn't needed.

Is Claustrum weak? Yeah, it kinda is, at least in my opinion, it's certainly not very powerful. However, the purpose it serves is there, whether or not its a popular use or one that is demanded in recent content. Between additional effect Dispel, lowering the attack of enemies, and offering staff users a level 3 skillchain property, it has a multitude of niche uses.

It does not need to do the most damage as well with its weaponskill. Could it? Yeah, they could change it, it wouldn't be the end of the world or anything, but I don't think it needs it. They've already stated that they don't want staff skills to do tons of damage, and with the state that both the weapon and weaponskill are in right now (read above), I believe its balanced properly. Even if you just wanted it to do the most damage, you could make that happen by just abusing the skillchain property that it has. They have no reason to just buff its damage for the sake of buffing it when it's already balanced accordingly.

If you wanted to buff the weapon and/or the weaponskill, you should look into buffing the unique effects it has rather than just trying to make it a truck. That would be much more interesting and actually expand its usage.

[dasva]

There are no plans to increase the damage mage jobs can do via weapon skills.

In regards to black mage, we'd like to make some adjustments since they are not able to use the TP gained when successfully landing a magic burst. However, it’s not practical for black mages to be in melee range when taking on high-level content,,

What you talking about? I vidohunired Perfidian and Putraxia just yesterday